♪ ♪ hello, disrupters! the chris christie saga takes another series of twists and turns and makers and takers talk on display again this week, all coming up. >> he's done it again, the government of new jersey has denied being the governor of new jersey. >> politico.com breaks the news he was a terrible guy in high school. a hit piece. the hit piece should not be attributed to governor chris christie. >> so bush league, so immature. >> how can we know it didn't come with the governor's

approval when it begins to stink bad enough? >> is this governor ever in his office when all this is going on in his name? >> did i authorize it, did i know about it, did i approve it or know about it before hand? the answer is the same, unequivocally no. >> is he doing anything that people find offensive? >> once again this week as more details emerged about the bridgegate scandal, more questions are being raised about governor chris christie's versions of event. remember that epic press conference where he denied seeking an endorsement from the mayor of ft. lee and denied knowing him all together. >> he was never on my radar

screen or mentioned to me of someone's endorsement we were pursuing. until i saw his picture on television, i wouldn't have been able to pick him out of a lineup. >> now they say not only did they court him for two years with gifts from the port authority, but he hosted the governor for lunch at the governor's mansion. in response the governor's office told "the record" the mayor is claiming it's a direct and absolute contradiction of his public comments up to this point. we're also finding out more about the memo last week christie's camp released. just what is going on at the governor's office? if all that wasn't enough,

christie gave a radio interview this week in which he appeared to contradict earlier statements about when he first learned about the lane closures and what his office did to follow up. did the initial press coverage bring the traffic jam to his attention or was it not until a port authority leaked e-mail to the wall street journal more than two weeks later? was the scandal, quote, not that big a deal or did he send his chief of staff and chief council to the port authority to investigate? all these questions could be a big problem for chris christie, even though legally speaking they may or may not play a role because when it comes to politics, it can kill you. thanks to both of you for joining me. >> thank you for having us.

>> criin terms of the way this office is functioning, it seems like they're not really the a-team right now. >> the concern here is the prosecutors is going to go by his gut feeling on whether anyone in this scandal did something for which they deserve to go to prison. i think it's a question about whether there's a federal crime, but at the end of the day there are 4,000 federal crimes on the book. if the prosecutor wants to charge christie with something here, can. the question he asks is is this an upstanding guy? when you have a man who blames everybody for his problems, he blames wildstein, he blames briget kelly, who he says is stupid and a liar, even though she's been a trusted lieutenant, you just start to have questions about integrity and that's a problem. >> brian, to that point he's blaming everybody else but it's also unclear, how would a memo like that go out without the

governor -- i mean, who would have the thought that was a good thing to do without the governor seeing it? >> that's the question, isn't it? it seems so unlikely that a professional communications staff and the thing to remember is the governor's spokesman was with him when he was the u.s. attorney. so this isn't someone who's new in dealing with the governor or in dealing with new jersey press. it seems completely unfathomable that this was just done by staff without christie's go ahead, someone running it by him, just because it was such a personal -- it was personal in such a juvenile way, amateurish way. it went after a guy's high school career, which seems that would be not be plan a, b or c if you were going to try to go after him for something that happened 30, 40 years ago. >> and the investigations, politico talks about how christie's staff is having to

respond to all these various subpoenas and pull together documents. it says "the investigation has had the effect of grinding the gears of his gubernatorial operation, not completely but noticeably sources close to christie say be staffers have had to devote weekends putting out the latest brush fires in the scandal. i've been through that myself and it does take a lot of time away from doing your daily job -- so you're doing all this paper work rather than, as it said, getting ready for events or push forward the governor's vae agenda. >> there's always an issue with wanting the prosecutor to have the tool that he or she needs in order to do their job or to treat the suspects or people

under investigation just like any other suspects. you don't want to give them more benefits because they're politician. on the other hand, because they do have important work are you don't want to slow down the machinations of government. you have to be careful as a prosecutor how you balance this. you also have defense attorneys and defense attorneys almost always want to delay things and slow things down and that's at some tension with the politician's role because he's looking at the next upcoming election. so you have these competing influences in these kind of public corruption investigations. >> brian, at this point there's a couple of questions for christie, right? the next election would be 2016 in theory. at this point it seems like he's really got to stay focused on keeping the job he's got right now. >> i think that's right. if this is how the staff is responding to this kind of pressure, which frankly let's face it, this is the very

beginning of an investigation and there are only two -- until recently, there was only one front on this battle, right? it was just the bridge. it wasn't the sandy aid piece of it, that's relatively new. to see the operation start to unravel and really make some very minor league mistakes at this point is surprising for someone who is trying to ramp up a presidential campaign. >> and this is not -- he's not doing so well so far. i want to talk a little, brian, about the allegations on the one hand saying this guy was not on my radar but then there was courting of the attention of the mayor, the tour of the 9/11 monument, the luncheon with other mayors. those two facts just don't seem to jibe together. >> i this i we should be careful about reading too much into what

the mayor said to "the bergen record." the lunch happened three and a half years ago. i don't know that i would characterize the relationship between what the port authority has given the city of ft. lee, i don't know that i would characterize those as gifts. the port generally compensates towns where they have -- in this case ft. lee is the post community to the george washington bridge, which puts enormous burdens on ft. lee taxpayers. usually the port authority does something to make up to them. in one case there was a $120,000 grant for two shuttle buses. but that came after the mayor decided not to endorse the governor. when you line these up, the timeline of this being all about endorsements about the bridge closure being about endorsements doesn't entirely make sense to me. clearly the government wanted as

many endorsements as he could get but i'm not sure those two stories have to intertwine in that way. >> you know, paul, a question for you because we're seeing now, you know, more -- we saw mayor dawn zimmer come out with her version, she's interviewed in one part of the investigation. the more people come out and talk publicly, they find themselves getting embroiled in either the investigation by legislature or potentially talking to the state's attorney. >> it's another thing that always happens in political corruption investigations. you want their stories to stay consistent. but because they're in the public eye, because part of their responsibility is to go on tv and in the newspaper and give interviews about their work,

sometimes their stories change. that's not really helpful if you're thinking about a potential trial down the line. we're a long way away from this but part of this is the prosecutor taking his sweet time because he wants to make sure all his ducks are in a row if there is a prosecution brought. >> finally, brian, the high school thing, so silly but one of the stories actually said -- you have the governor saying i was an athlete, i don't know what he was doing. it turns out wildstein was the statistician for the baseball team. you would have to think their paths would cross more than the governor is representing. >> that's just not a believable story. what we know from some of the reporting i've done, what we've learned through documents that have been released, it seems

like the relationship between wildstein and the governor's office was fairly during the time he was at the port authority. the job was created for him at the port authority specifically to make it an extension of the christie political operation by creating political opportunities that would benefit the governor from a campaign and election standpoint and enable him to do a lot of projects in the state of new jersey with port authority money that wouldn't have been available otherwise. >> all right. we will keep at this. thank you, paul butler and brian murphy. >> always a pleasure. >> coming up, o.d.s., obama derangment syndrome, blaming your problems on the obama

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doing immigration reform in a step-by-step, common sense manners help our constituents build more confidence what we're doing make sense. >> there's widespread doubt about whether this administration can be trusted to enforce our laws. and it's going to be difficult to move any immigration legislation until that changes. >> that was speaker of the house john boehner doing a complete

180 on immigration reform. just a week ago the speaker signaled a piecemeal deal based on broad principles was on the horizon. but within days, hours really, those principles were already under attack from within the gop and once given speaker boehner and his leadership team couldn't get their caucus to agree on anything other than blaming president obama. it couldn't matter that president obama has done more to enforce border laws than president bush ever did. they say he's lawless, a dictator who should be impeac d impeached. one republican senator implicated that the president's dealings were iran are an

attempt to distract from the web site. thanks to you both for being here. >> appreciate it. >> the real reason that immigration went off the rails was because there was not real consensus within the republican party and it seemed like it was an easier talking point to see it's really obama's fault. >> that's exactly right but, my goodness, the whiplash you experience there listening to john boehner a week ago and now what he's saying today, he certainly realized there was a pretty big caucus in his -- in the house and just didn't want this to happen and, you know, the real reason also is that they're obviously facing mid terms in 2014 and they didn't want to do anything to alienate

their base. they're also looking at a pretty good shot at taking over the senate. if they wait, they could hold all the cards come 2014 in the house and senate and be able to do immigration reform in any way they want to. >> joe, it just strikes me that what else can we blame the president for? let's just throw the grab bag at him essentially. one of the things i thought was interesting was the specific language of saying we can't trust him. we know that honest and trustworthiness a very important poll number. we know the president took a hit on that because of the affordable care act rollout. do they think that's trying to undermine the president's integrity? >> was a you was talking, i was going to ask the question is it snowing in new york? if it is, it's the president's fault. if it's raining in california, it and is, it's the president's fault. the reality is what nia said, boehner counted about 69 votes

in his caucus and he knew immediately that if he did not go along with the tea party group and others that he would not be speaker of the house. he is protecting his own rear end in this situation. when he says he can't trust the president, the reality is he might as well say he can't trust the entire democratic caucus because they are pretty much with the president. there are a few exception of course on certain issues. and, what, you can't trust the american people who have voted for this president overwhelmingly twice with no controversy and then i would end by saying that as you talk about the possibility of them taking over the senate, and i'm going to repeat this every time i get a chance to do it, i'm telling everyone right now somewhere, someplace up on capitol hill someone has dusted off articles of impeachment and it doesn't make any difference what the

charges are. remember, impeachment is a trial. what they want is the legacy that this first black president may have gotten elected twice, may have gotten the affordable care act through, may have saved us from a depression, but guess what, we impeached him and 50 years from now, that's what your children and grandchildren are going to be reading. it's about his legacy and we might as well recognize it. we have to get out the vote to prevent that senate. if they take over the senate, i guarantee there will be article of impeachment. >> you raise a very important point. on the one hand we can short of make fun of this obama derangment syndrome as some of my colleagues have labeled it but there are serious consequence. there's something more insidious going on. we is sound from a town hall with congressman brydenstein earlier this week and this person essentially speaks to exactly what you were just saying. so i'm going to go ahead and

play that sound for you and then we'll talk about the response we got. >> obama, he's not president as far as i'm concerned, he should be executed as an enemy combatant, really. but the muslims that he is shipping into our country through pilots and commercial jets, i can't tell you -- i can't say because we're in a public place -- this guy is a criminal. nobody's stopping him. the and the other thing is, too, you know, with congress doing nothing, that legal allows this moron to make decisions. he has no authority, none. and we just say, oh, yeah, we should do this, we should do that but nobody's doing anything that's accomplishing anything. >> everybody knows the lawlessness of this president. he picks and chooses which laws he's going to enforce and not

enforce. he does it by decree. >> you know, right there that is to my mind watching, you know, this rhetoric essentially take root and you hear it being actually reported back to the member of congress who then puts it back to the constituent. now, the congressman issued a statement saying, "a public figure cannot control what people say in open meetings, i obviously did not condone and i do not approve of grossly inappropriate language." in truth, he didn't do much when that point was being made. there is something a little bit deeper here than just -- we blame him for immigration falling off the wagon, but there is a longer term i think effort here to discredit this president

undermine this president and that clip to me embodies what this is talking about. >> i was on arizona steve stockman's webside yesterday and he is running for senate and he has a whole web site dedicated to should i impeach the president. of course he's trying to raise money on that. i think the long-term danger is really about the republican party more than anything else. it is sort of this hotbed of what might be politely called paranoid populism. this is a party that needs to expand beyond the south, beyond, you know, white americans, beyond older americans as well and these sorts of clips and this sort of language, very uncivil discourse about our elected president just doesn't help the party in those efforts. i think they have to figure out a way to contain this and move beyond it if they are going to try to broaden the base of that

party. >> nia, i don't disagree with you in terms of the party, but i think i agree with joe that there is something that is very personally targeted, it feels like, towards this president, undermining this president that i actually think at a point becomes dangerous and very toxic for this country. and it's painful to see people not willing to take responsibility for that and sort of just letting that kind of talk continue. joe madison and nia henderson, thank you so much. >> coming up, what do you do when one manufactured story collapses on itself? create a whole new one. that's coming up. bloating? one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against these digestive issues with three types of good bacteria. i should probably take this. live the regular life.

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the facts get in your way. not only did the right misrepresent a health care report from the congressional budget office, they spiralled counsel to an old favorite, the makers and takers argument. that is coming up. >> in the end the law is going to drive 2.5 million full-time workers out of the economy. >> the cbo report today devastating, 2 million fewer jobs as a result of the obamacare health care law. >> obamacare doesn't work. why don't up just spend more time with the family, let somebody else work, you go on obamacare. >> the cbo report is certainly not pretty if you're interested in creating jobs in america. >> the cbo did not say that. >> oh, yes, they did. you have read the report? i have not. that way i get to claim anything i want, paul krugman. >> exactly. [ park sounds, sound of spray paint ]

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this week the congressional budget office released a report that looked at changes in the workforce due to implementation of obamacare act. the cbo estimated it could lead to the decline of full-time ef equivalent workers of about 20 million.

why? because americans don't have to stay in a job in order to get health care. or maybe they can work part time and stay home with their kids. sounds good, doesn't it? not to the republicans. they were quick to attack. look at these headlines. "o-care will cost 2.5 million workers by 2024. >> i guess there are some people who think it will be just fine to be like europe, sit back, let somebody else work, take the welfare. >> you could work 35 hours and say i'll be eligible for food stamps, get more financial aid for them and have a lower quality of life and spend more time with your family while you wonder where all the money is. >> for every job lost, it's one more body dependent on the government. this is the serenity of soft socialism. it doesn't come with a hammer, it comes with a handout and it's

just as deadly. >> lazy, dependent, undeserving, it's a refrain we've heard time and again from the gop when they're talking about working americans. but this time even republican congressman paul ryan had to go beyond the spin. >> just to understand this, it's not that employers are laying people off, it's that people aren't working in the workforce, aren't supplying labor to the equivalent of 2.5 million jobs in 2024 and as a result that lower workforce participation racial, less labor supplied, lowers economic growth? >> that's right, mr. chairman. >> it kind of makes you wonder what they really think about that 47% of america. joining me is washington democratic congressman and senior member of the budget committee jim mcdermott and senior editor paul cone. senator, taking a look at the

cbo report, it was pretty egregious this week. the cbo said one thing, the republicans completely misconstrued it as say something else. indeed, what is wrong with people saying, you know, i'm going to work part time so can i take care of my kids. shouldn't we want that for people? >> you know, that's the whole point. giving people health insurance, giving them security allows them much more freedom in terms of where they work, how long they work, at what they work. if you're staying in a job because you have to have health insurance and you can't change jobs because you're afraid you won't be able to get it at the next job, you have no freedom. i fly home every weekend with flight attendants who fly for the very simple reason their husband has a job with no health insurance and they have health insurance through united and they're staying on their job. we have corrected that with

obamacare. >> right. and as the cbo found, "the estimated reduction stems almost entirely from a net decline in the amount of labor that workers choose to supply rather than from a net drop in business's demand for labor." you know, jonathan, i know you wrote about this this week but, again, it's such a misconstruing of the facts but it really -- the attack went right to -- they were trying to attack president obama and the affordable care act but really they were attacking the american people. they're attacking people who might say i'm going to change my job or i'm going to work part time to go back to school and instead making the assumption that people are just lazy and they're going to go on welfare. >> no, really, they leaped right to that argument. it's instinctive for a lot of republicans, that's where they go when they see an issue. i agree with everything the congressman said. to be fair, there are two things going on here and the

congressional budget office also said in addition to the fact some people are going to be freed from having to get a job to get insurance, there is this issue that the subsidies in the law, the financial assistance, the way it's structured, the value does decline as you work more. so there is some disincentive effect. and that's the kernel of truth in what the republicans were saying. but that is true of every program that is available to people at different incomes and the republicans know that. in fact, the republican health plan that was getting so much attention, you know, two weeks ago from senator coburn would have the same kind of effect as the way these programs work. >> congressman, i guess that's what's so ridiculous about this argument. again, to jonathan's point, that's how these programs work and, i mean, are we really a country that is saying this kind of -- the subsidy or some kind of help, that that is a bad thing? that really seems to be what the republican mantra is here. >> well, what they've done is they've built into the program

this problem and the new republic writes very clearly about that. the fact is -- i pointed out, in fact, i joked with them. you're saying if we had a universal system and everybody had health insurance, not based on income, well, they'd start working like the swedes and germans and none of them work because there are disincentives. you have built in this problem by tieing it to how much people make and therefore how much subsidy they get. so it is a phony argument from the start. >> it's a phony argument and it's also one, as i said, i want to read something that ron fornier wrote this week because i think he succinctly encapsulated where this attack is going. he said "it assumes the only reason millions of people work is for company health insurance, that there's no inner drive to ascend economically and

socially. give me a government check and to hell with the american dream. that may be true for some americans but certainly not for most. the gop argument has more than a whiff of reagan era racial welfare queen politics." jonathan, that is what bothered me about the fact that they went so quickly to, you know, this makers or takers, dependency, cultural dependency language that we hear time and time again and it's really ironically, it's aimed at kind of stoking their base and yet a lot of the people in the base are people who are going to benefit from these programs. >> unquestionably. and i thought that column really nailed it. you know, you would think listening to the republicans that there weren't people out there who are very eager to work hard and very eager. and their problem is they make $30,000 a year. if you're a family living on $30,000 a year, you don't have enough money to buy health

insurance. and so the choice is we can come up with a program that helps them get health insurance and might is he margins have some different incentives for work or we can do nothing for these people and that's what the republicans are saying if you translate that, they don't want to help these people. >> congressman, final question to you. it's a similar argument that we're hearing about why they don't want to extend unemployment insurance, or why they don't want to raise the minimum wage when, again, these are things that actually help people, we're hearing, well, we're going to create dependency if we do that. >> if you read through their arguments, they are basically saying everybody is independently responsible for themselves and the government shouldn't do anything for them. they would take away unemployment insurance and social security and workers comp and everything if they had the way of doing it. they don't want regulations, they don't want government and yet they're all beneficiaries. there are guys sitting on that

committee who went to college on social security benefits because their father died. i mean, there is clearly -- they're not thinking through what they're saying. >> i think that's right. and i think at some point it's got to back fire if they're going to keep attacking the integrity of the american people. >> coming up, how is team usa faring so far this first olympic weekend? we'll check in on the ground in sochi right after this. [ female announcer ] who are we? we are the thinkers. the job jugglers. the up all-nighters. and the ones who turn ideas into action. we've made our passions our life's work. we strive for the moments where we can say, "i did it!" ♪ we are entrepreneurs who started it all... with a signature.

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we're in constant communications with them, both at this law enforcement level, at the military levels, at the intelligence levels. >> earlier this week president obama shared his sochi concerns in an interview with nbc's bob costas. we're now about 24 hours into the winter games and so far all is quiet. brian shactman joins me with the latest from sochi. but be warned, spoilers ahead. >> reporter: thanks, karen. today is fun. no more security, we got to actually talk about the sports. and here is a name for you before, sage kotsenberg. shaun white, who we all know was a superstar in snow boarding,

was a little nervous about the course. sage told me directly "it was sick." he aced it with flair and personality and the judges loved to. the other one i want to talk about is women's ice hockey. i spent some time with the team and they got off to an impressive start. they beat finland 3-1. finland considered the third best team behind the u.s. and canada. everyone wants to see the u.s. play canada in women's hockey. they had a few good bounces, scored a goal within the first minute and they sort of cruised from there. so some very good results from the americans today and of course we have a lot of events, bode miller and the downhill will be the event coming up. >> thanks, brian. up next, activism is effective,

intergenerational and most importantly it's working. how north carolina's moral mondays are spreading nationwide. reverend william barber joins me next. [ female announcer ] new fiber one protein cereal. ♪ yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! ♪ we are one, under the sun ♪ under the sun... [ female announcer ] fiber and protein. together as one. introducing new fiber one protein cereal. wake it up with olay regenerist.

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80 to 100,000 gathered to kick off the moral monday. the movement grew as north carolinians from all walks of life joined in, taking part in over 30 rallies to protest policies passed by the state republican general assembly and signed into law by republican governor pat mccrory, from passing the worst voter

suppression law, to cutting taxes on the rich but all of those policies still remain in place today. what will the movement look like in 2014? joining me now is the head of the north carolina naacp, reverend william barber. thank you so much for being with me. >> hello, my friend. how are you, karen? >> i'm well, sir. i had the to speak with julian bond. he said "i wish this activism had more outbursts than just in north carolina and florida. you wish it was 20 times as great, but to see these things that are going on, it's exciting. these tactics are tried and true. they worked in the past and they'll work now." one of the things i loved about that is sort of that bridge from past to present and the way that this movement is really grass roots. and i think as you've talked about, it's really about organizing people not so much along partisan lines but really around values and the issues

that matter to people. >> that's right. we shouldn't let the extremists have the highest ground on values. we should talk about our deepest democratic values, look voting rierkts like equal protection under the law, taking care of people when they're hurting and when they're down. many of the policies the extremists go again, the republicans in the past lifted up those policies. ronald reagan was for earned income tax credits. if you make him look like a liberal, you're pretty extreme. julian bond is a great mentor. you fight, you move, you lift up your principles of faith and the principles of the constitution. that's what we've seen in north carolina. nearly 100,000 people showed up today. it didn't just start this year, we started seven years ago building a coalition. >> so what's the focus for 2014? it's obviously a mid-term

election year. one of the things you talked about earlier today at the rally was a freedom summer movement. talk about what the goals are for 2014. >> well, the first thing today we wanted to reemphasize after rallies is our gender, this is about economic sustainability, health care for all, women's rights, help dealing with the justice system and voting rights for women. today what you saw was black, white, latino, african-americans, people of faith, people not of faith coming together saying we do not want this kind of extremism. now what we're going to do is take the energy and we're engaging in mass mobilization, engaging in mass voter registration, voter education and par 'tticipation. 50-some years ago we had freedom

summer and we're going to do it again. we must take this energy and this new language of moral and the deepest principles of our constitution and forge it into a systematic mobilization plan. we've been traveling all over the state and it's happening and it's moving and you're going to see some numbers in 2014 like we've never seen in an off-year election. >> i think, reverend, finally the other thing that we're seeing is it's just not in north carolina. i've got a graphic here that shows we're talking about virginia, south carolina, georgia. you have truthful tuesday in south carolina, the medicaid ten in georgia, talking about medicaid there. so this movement really has moved beyond north carolina actually. >> well, we're in what we call a theology a moment where time is interrupting time. people are just saying this extremism is just wrong. it not about democrat or republican. what's happening is just like in the 1960s when four boys sat

down in greensboro and a movement spread. we're not leading it but the spirit of the movement has spread to georgia, spreading to florida, they're talking about march the 3rd, alabama, south carolina, virginia because people of all different race, creeds, colors and parties recognize we have an option in this country. we can take the road to destruction, the road of extremism or the pathway to higher ground. >> i love what you're doing, reverend, and i hope we continue to see more people getting involved in the movement and i hope that it means more people turn out to vote this fall so we can get some real change. thank you so much, reverend barber. >> thank you. we've only just begun to fight. >> that does it for me. thanks so much for joining us. please don't forget to share your thoughts. i'll see you right back here tomorrow afternoon at 4:00 p.m. eastern. ♪

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