>> and we hope to have you back on the show soon. >> it's way too early, it's "morning joe." and now, to our dear friend -- >> todd. what a difference a shutdown makes. picking their poison. republican leaders retreat on the debt limit handing president obama a victory. this hour, we'll talk to one of the republicans who voted with the democrats, a conservative who opposed the deal, and the ranking democrat on the house budget committee. are we done with the days of the debt ceiling being wielded as a political weapon? plus, taking a "deep dive" and what's become the easy way out of a congressional ethics investigation. and the historical storm. winter storm watches and warnings from texas to new england. ice and snow already blanketing much of the south. the latest on the dangerous weather affecting tens of millions of americans. good morning from washington. it's wednesday, february 12th, 2014.

exactly 1,000 days from election day 2016, if you're keeping track. and we do here. so let's get right to my first reads of the morning. three years ago, after winning control of the house, republicans plotted a strategy to use the debt limit to extract concessions from president bchl. -- president obama. >> let me be as clear as i can be, without significant spending cuts and changes in the way we spend the american people's money, there will be no increase in the debt limit. and the cuts should be greater than the accompanying increase in the debt limit that the president is given. >> yesterday, house speaker john boehner essentially folded, making it clear he and other republican leaders will do anything it takes to avoid upsetting the 2014 apple cart. republicans could not agree on any legislative ask, after floating demands to green light

the keystone pipeline, raise military pension benefits, make the medicare doc fix permanent, eliminating corridors in the health care laws, and cutting spending in other places, it became clear none of the proposals could get 218 votes among the house republicans, knowing full well how unpopular it would be with conservatives, boehner decided to rip the band-aid off. he announced he would bring a clean bill to the floor, and, boy, did he do it quickly. >> we don't have 218 votes. when you don't have 218 votes, you have nothing. we've seen that before, we see it again. >> so the debt ceiling vote passed 221-201. 28 republicans voting for it, including boehner, cantor, and mccarthy. conference chair cathy mcmorris rodgers voted against it. if you can't tell republicans they have a singular focus on winning the midterms -- nerdin r

words, winning the midterms -- boehner has now cut bipartisan deals on four major pieces of legislation -- the ryan-murray budget agreement, the spending bill, the farm bill, and now this debt limit hike, and what they thought would get in the way of any 2014 success, they chose to punt. boehner here is acting like the leader of the republican party, concluding that whenever republicans become the story, whether it's shutting down the government or engaging in brinksmanship, it doesn't help the gop nationally. instead, he wants to spend the next nine months focused on the health care law, struggling economy and president obama. the attempt to turn the pain, though, is not placating many conservative groups. the club for growth said there's something wrong with house leadership or with the republican party. heritage action called it extremely reckless. the senate conservative fund is circulating a petition calling on boehner to step down. still, some conservatives in the conference who have opposed boehner in the past appear willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.

florida freshman todd yoho who voted against boehner in the first days in office, said with that many people and that many personalities in there, it's hard to bring them together on a common cause. james lankford made it clear why conservatives are willing to give boehner wiggle room, saying, quote, hopefully, we can win the senate and we can have a completely different conversation. well, now the bill heads to the senate where texas senator ted cruz demands a 60-vote threshold, forcing all vulnerable democrats to raise it. but they're optimistic they can move quickly considering the winter storm bearing down and flights that these guys want to make. cruz's republican colleagues are already planning his strategy. >> do you think that ted cruz is right to filibuster? are you with him or not? >> i don't think it's right, because at the end of the day we're going to pass a clean debt

ceiling increase, with ted's or without ted's support. >> one more big story out of this. does this mean the budget wars are over, or are we in at least a cease-fire, and who won? well, for someone that was criticized fairly -- and fairly so for being a bad negotiator in 2011 and 2012, the president stuck to his guns. he stood firm and forced the scenario, making it more difficult for the republicans to use the debt ceiling as a political weapon. republicans can declare victory by pointing out that the debt ceiling is falling, projected to be $514 billion, down from a high of $1.4 trillion in '09, but it's not clear if that's a victory they'll be able to declare. joining me now is congressman charlie den of pennsylvania one of the 28 republicans who voted to raise the debt limit. congressman dent, good morning to you, sir. >> good morning, chuck. thanks for having me on the program. >> so does this mean, are the budget wars over, or are we in a long-term cease-fire? what does this mean, the decision by republican

leadership not to use the debt ceiling anymore as a way to negotiate budget demands? >> well, we are more or less a budgetary stalemate at the moment. let me first say i believe it would be reckless to default on our nation's obligations, and that's why i felt we had to move forward. the ability for the house republicans to negotiate with the senate democrats and the president is very limited. if we don't have 218 votes on the debt ceiling. and when i say that, we have some members in our conference who have said they will never, ever, never, ever, ever vote for a debting ceiling increase. if we attempt to attach debt policy, we still won't get their vote. that forced us into the position of taking up a clean bill. >> well, take me inside the room here. the "washington post," bob costa reported, when they didn't speak up or clap, boehner stood there for a moment after he finished, eyed the room, walked toward his seat, shook his head, and turned to the nearly mute crowd and

wondered aloud why he wasn't getting applause. i'm getting this monkey off your back and you're not even going to clap, scowling playfully at his tea party favorites. was it that contentious in the room yesterday? >> well, the only thing i can say about that, many members are resigned that we'll have to consider a clean debt ceiling bill at some point. my recommendation was that we should have attached the military c.o.l.a. prevision, the fix, to the debt ceiling, put that up on the floor, if it were to have failed, then move to the clean bill. that was my suggestion. but i always knew we would move to a clean bill, so when the speaker said what he said, i think members were resigned to it. obviously, they weren't overjoyed about it, but i don't think they are angry, either. there were some members, frankly, in our conference, the more conservative members, who said that we should vote on a clean debt ceiling bill, but they wouldn't vote on it. they resigned themselves to the fact, just wanted someone else to do the heavy lift. >> you bring up the military

pension benefits, and i find it is a bipartisan deal negotiated a month ago, so the thought you're rolling back something because it's politically painful, and to accuse somebody oh, you're kwet cutting the benefits of the military. if you guys can't even agree to hang onto something like this, how can we expect congress to ever do meaningful entitlement reform on the bigger federal debt issues? i mean, i find it fascinating there's all this -- people want to come around military benefits, but isn't this an example of why it's impossible for the two parties ever to do a grand bargain if you can't even stick to a deal that you cut a month ago? >> and that's a fair point, chuck. believe me, my first preference was to tie the keystone pipeline or to tie the medical device tax repeal, or some other policy provision that i thought we would get democrat wrote votes for, but the military c.o.l.a. provision came at the last

minute, thinking it would be the easiest way to get the democrats to vote for it. i believe the changes made in the budget agreement were defensible. obviously, the program that military program will still go forward. the agreement that we have reached will go forward for those that are now entering the military. so that cost of living adjustment will be adjusted for those folks. i agree with your point, that this is not -- this was probably the least hard of all of the changes we'll make on the entitlement programs, and if we can't make this one stick, it will be hard to do the bigger deals. i agree. >> let me ask you on the idea of the debt ceiling in general. at this point, in clean debt ceiling is now the future, should we even get rid of congressional -- i mean, should this be something that congress has to deal with every year or so? or should we just get rid of this provision in the law? >> well, there's a lot of talk in our conference about -- i guess they called it the old gephardt rule where, i guess, when you passed your budget resolution, the debt ceiling was

automatically raised -- >> right. >> -- in the budget. in the budget resolution. there's some discussion of returning to that standard so we don't have to go through these debt ceiling dramas every so often. so that's something that's being discussed. whether or not we get back to that old policy, i don't know. but believe me, it's being discussed. >> by the way, i know -- where are you on the minimum wage? you're one of those more center-right republicans. are you in favor of raising it? >> well, what i -- i voted for the last increase in the minimum wage back when president bush was in office. it was tied to other job creation proposals. i am certainly open to a minimum wage increase. i prefer doing it during a more robust economy. i would also say to you, too, on that -- on the unemployment benefits, i have my own proposal on emergency unemployment benefits. i say extend them out another 14 weeks, 40 weeks, 10 months told, but tie it to the keystone pipeline, job-creating proposals, keystone, repeal the medical device tax, and 40-hour

work week under the health care law, not the 30-hour, and pay for it by stopping the double dip on unemployment and disability, which i think the president agrees with. that's a way to move forward on emergency unemployment benefits, and tie job creating, job saving measures to extensions. >> all right, charlie dent, pennsylvania republican, one of the 28 republicans who voted with democrats to raise the debt ceiling. thank you for coming on. >> thanks, chuck. >> threat's bring in the other side of the conversation inside the republican party. i have mike neenham here. >> great to be here, chuck. >> you key voted this, said republicans, conservatives, if they want to be seen as a conservative shouldn't have voted for this. what did you want to see attached to this debt kreeling? >> well, i thought the question you asked congressman dent at the end was very interesting, right? if you don't want votes on the debt limit, if you want on the status quo, autopilot form of government, why not get rid of the debt ceiling? the truth is, there's no politician actually going to go to the american people and say,

look, we're going to uninstall this fire alarm that congress 100 years ago put in our nation -- >> that's what you believe it is. that's why you think congress should keep this power? >> exactly. we borrowed $17 trillion of debt, a year ago we set the firearm alarm, should we do something to change course? and deeming the debt limit pass, or passing clean debt limits does a disservice to the american people and not forcing the conversation about what we're going to do about a nation's fiscal house that's frankly on fire. >> so what did you want to see attached to it. >> it should have been something big and bold. in 2011, united the conference around cut, fight, balance. any forum that goes forward and rises to the challenge that our nation faces is the type of debate the american people deserve. if you look at something that's, you know, a fake food fight, which i think is what some people in washington wanted to start, if you look at a clean debt limit that does nothing to get our nation back on track, that's not serious -- >> all of the proposals i went through, you thought those were

small ball? >> fake food fights, because everybody knew -- congressional leadership went on the sunday shows a couple of weeks ago, look, we're not going to hold the debt limit hostage. you know, throw around -- >> they knew they were showboats. [ overlapping speakers ] >> -- they can pretend to be fighting. they can say, look, we tried to get the keystone, but all the while, signaling a debt limit increase, and nobody wanted to be a part of the games. >> conservative fund wants them out -- tea works, all-time low for boehner, placating the democratic buddies. where is heritage action on speaker -- >> we don't get involved in those types of things. we're focused on policy. what we do know is a bipartisan consensus in washington, d.c., that says we'd rather keep the status quo. it works for us for politicians, 33,000 lobbyists on k street and the speaker has decided he would use that bipartisan consensus for the status quo to advance legislation, rather than going to the american people and

presenting the choice that you have between a conservative vision going forward, that i think can unite america, and this kind of broken status quo. >> boehner would argue, and i'm sure they've argued to you privately, did you see the government shut down? did you see the impact on the republican party? if you want republicans to control the senate, if you want any shot at a conservative agenda, you can't shoot yourself in the foot. >> and everybody would agree with that. i think the government shutdown was ultimately about saying to the american people, there are certain things that need to be fought for, and one is our american health care system. that was a good thing, and the republican party -- >> you still believe the shutdown was a good thing for the party? >> as i said, if i was running for election in november 2014, i would want to say i did everything i could to stop the obamacare law from going into effect, and i think the republican party should be able to go into this election and talk about the big, bold ideas that they think will make america better. we had nine members of congress over at heritage on monday talking about big, bold ideas. jeb was there, talking about shutting down freddie and

fannie, and tom price about health care reform. >> there are some republicans that have taken some shots at heritage. devin noons. i don't look to them. mike simpson, since they became political, people have said, i don't need that anymore. and richard burr, not exactly a moderate republican, from north carolina, i'm not sure i've ever seen them listen to anybody. they can have all the summits, but this doesn't make a squat of difference. what do you say to this, orrin hatch was pretty tough on you guys, on my show, a couple of months ago believing you guys led them down a shutdown path that was a mistake. >> i think they're politicians who just want to go forward and preserve the status quo, deem debt limits passed, not pass fundamental tax reform, because it might upset somebody on k street. we'll probably not have the best working relationship. go there's big, bold politics that want to go to the american people and present a choice, like ted cruz is on energy, in a speech he gave monday at heritage, like tom price is on

obamacare, like jeb henchly is on fannie and freddie reform, those are the people on the battlefield every single day, and we think american people will be inspired to see politicians who aren't trying to have fake food fights. they're not trying to have a vote to turn into a 30-second tv commercial. they're trying to chain the course of history. that's what we're looking forward, and we have a lot of friends we look forward to working with on that. >> all right. mike, thank you for coming on. >> thanks for having me. >> go get your bread and milk. it's snow day. >>. >> the republicans. up next, we've heard from them, up next, we'll get the reaction from the other side of the aisle. chris van hollen will be here next. have we had an end to the budget wars? first, a look at the "politics planner." the president signs the executive order today on minimum wage for federal contracts. rand paul speaks about an nsa class action lawsuit, but how many of these things will actually be -- take place today because of the weather? by the way, a live look at the roads in atlanta.

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well, republicans tried to lessen the political damage from tuesday's let limit vote by keeping yea votes to a bare minimum. in addition, dave camp tried to turn the table on the democrats, arguing they're the ones standing in the way of compromise. >> regrettably, over the last three days, democrats have hardened their position. the president, senate democrats, and house democrats will not even entertain a discussion let

alone a negotiation over what reforms we can make along with the debt limit increase. they've become unyielding. democrats are totally adamant, extend the debt limit or default. >> maryland congressman chris van hollen is the ranking member of the budget committee. some of that felt as if, well, somebody had to say something on the floor of the house. so he said something there. but yesterday's result, do you believe that we have eliminat eliminated -- that we have sort of neutralized the debt ceiling as a political weapon? >> certainly in the near term, we have. the president was very firm, as you said earlier, that we're not going to allow the full faith and credit of the united states to be held hostage to any political agenda. and at least for now, i think he has succeeded in implementing that policy, as have democrats in the congress. and it's important that people know that this is just a vote to make sure congress pays the bills for votes that's already taken. >> agreed to a month ago. >> these are the existing

obligations of the united states government. >> so will you say definitively now, if there's a republican president, you will never use the debt ceiling as a -- >> i won't. i think the last couple of years have demonstrated it is irupon. >> and the democrats, who have done it before, they've done it, too, they won't -- >> i can only speak for myself, chuck. i can't bind my colleagues. but i do think that it's important we not play politics with this important issue. >> you heard, and some have done it in tongue in cheek, if you're not going to use it as a political tool, then surrender the whole control over the eye do that congress should be regulating it. should congress just simply not be involved in this anymore? should we get rid of the debt ceiling that was sort of created by congress? >> well, i'm in favor of what's known as the mitch mcconnell rule. i'm sure he would disown parentage of the rule, but what he said is the president can do the responsible thing, democrat or republican, make sure we lift

the debt ceiling. if congress wants to try to overturn that, they can. of course -- >> a two-thirds vote. >> -- overturn a veto. look, it serves no real useful purpose right now. we need to deal with our long-term deficit issue, and in the near term, we have to focus on jobs and the economy and the other things -- >> you say long term. the cbo report, you know, there was a lot of political back-and-forth about the health care law, the cbo was depressing in the last seven years. next three years, deficit going down, economy growing, but you say long term, seven year, ten years from now long term? >> yeah, the ten-year window, we're going to see rising deficits, even under the cbo report, they're not what they were before. however, we've been clear that we're willing to tackle the long-term issues. the affordable care act, as you know, has resulted in significantly reducing the per capita cost of health care, and -- and this is an important point we always argue about it, you hear folks come on and say

they want to get the deficit down, the debt down, but not prepared to close a single tax loophole in order to reduce the deficit, not for hedge fund owners, not for big oil companies, so they beat their chests and say, let's deal with the long-term deficit but not asking the folks at the top to pay one penny. >> your hometown newspaper editorial, not aimed at you, but at the president, what the waup waum editorialized about the decision to delay the mandate. yes, republicans have done everything they can to implead implementation of this law, but none of that excuses president obama's increasingly cavalier approach to picking and choosing how to enforce this law. imagine how democrats would respond if a president rand paul, say, moved into the white house in 2017 and announced he would put off provisions of obamacare he thought might be too onerous to administer. is the president and the implementation of the law getting perilously close to being too, in the words of the

"washington post," cavalier, what parts to implement now and what parts to implement later? >> the distinction is things that go to the core of the law and things that clearly are under the president's authority through the treasury department. >> you believe everything -- [ overlapping speakers ] >> -- i believe under the treasury authorities, he's able to do -- i understand why the republicans are crying foul on this from their perspective. however, at the same time republicans don't like this law at all. they don't like the impact of the law on large employers. what the president is trying to do is smooth the transition. obviously, we've had rocky periods, and i think he's trying to make sure it's implemented in the best way possible. >> do you think anybody will pay a penalty? >> pay a penalty? >> individual or a business? >> oh, in terms of -- >> yeah, in terms of this you la. we've delayed the penalties. do you think anybody is ever -- the federal government is ever going to collect a penalty -- >> yeah, i think if you look at the experience of massachusetts,

and again this bill was modelled on the mitt romney proposal in massachusetts, my understanding is they have collected penalties. >> the government -- you think the politicians will be -- when the penalties start getting collected -- the military pension reform, you couldn't stick by it. do you think this government is capable of sticking by and forcing -- >> i think so long as it's clear that the individual had every opportunity to get access to affordable health care and refused to do it and became a free rider, trying to free ride on everybody else, yes. if somebody was not able to get health insurance in -- recently, for example, they had a hard time getting on the exchange, that's different. when this is up and running, if people are trying to freeload on the system, and make everybody else pay for their health care, then you'll see this provision. >> chris van hollen, is it, by the way, cease-fire in the budget wars? or is it over?

>> at least temporary, with the budget agreement reached. the good news is we got this done. the bad news is overwhelmingly, the republicans in the house voted not to pay our bills on time. so people need to keep an eye on that, as well. >> thank you very much. thanks for coming in. prepare for the storm. >> yes. >> if it's wednesday, by the way, we've got -- means somebody voted tuesday, and we have election results for you today. this time, they're out of san diego. we'll try to bring them to you without quoting ron burgundy. two inches of snow was enough to paralyze atlanta last time, so how does nearly half a foot sound along with a half inch of ice? the latest on the mess about to slam the south again. first, the trivia question. who was president the last time a sitting secretary of state travelled to cuba? let me talk to you about retirement. a 401(k) is the most sound way to go. let's talk asset allocation. sure. you seem knowledgeable, professional.

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well, you know what we like to say on "the daily rundown," if it's wednesday, we've got election results. so this morning, it's a clear win for a republican in a state-dominated by democrats, a big win for republicans in california. kevin faulconer beat alvarez last night for san diego mayor. despite being outspent by labor. traditionally a gop-controlled city. he replaces democrat bob filner, who resigned in disgrace last summer after numerous women accused of his sexual misconduct. it makes san diego the largest city in the country with a republican mayor. more importantly, sort of the last stand of the republican party in the state of california. democrat david alvarez would have been the city's first latino mayor. he pledged to work with the new mayor. labor put a ton of money into alvarez. he was very competitive. the demographics are moving in san diego. >>. >> now, to the storm that's

already coating parts of the south in ice, could dump 4 to 10 inches of snow on the biggest cities across the northeast, depending on where do these lows happen. we're just at the beginning of what forecasters are saying could be an historic ice storm in the south. there's been sleet in atlanta all morning and thousands of road crews are out in force, learning the lesson, frankly, from the last couple of weeks. 83 million people could be impacted, and already, 2,900 flights have been cancelled. hopefully, this storm was forecast far enough in advance in atlanta and the state of georgia to avoid the kind of winter disaster that stranded tens of thousands of people when just 2 inches of snow fell on them in january. let's bring in nbc meteorologist bill karins with more. bill, i'm obsessed with our weather pals over at the "washington post," called the capitol weather gang, and they're trying to figure out -- it's fascinating to watch, how why these snow forecasts are all over the map. we could get three inches in the

mid-atlantic or two feet. but explain -- >> d.c. is tough. my buddy, doug cammer, he's down there stressing out, and on the east side of d.c., where the sleet is earlier, you could get 3, 4 inches. if you go to the west side of the belt, especially up into the hills, you could see a foot of snow. when it's right in the middle, the stripe is over the d.c. area, it's very difficult. because the worst of it is now -- this is just a classic ice storm. this is like a textbook, they'll teach this with the cold air from the north, the moisture from the south. i mean, south carolina and georgia, right now, especially central georgia, it's not pretty with the ice. up to an inch of ice. picture a tree limb with an inch of ice on it. the power outages will be widespread. >> yes, massive. >> it's not a lot of big cities. that will keep the numbers down. near augusta, it will be the worst of it. as far as the snow goerks the southern snow is impressive. norge northern georgia, northern south

carolina, 4 to 8, it's happening during the day today and tonight. d.c., by the way, the snow for you comes in about 9:00 p.m. tonight. it's heavy. and mixes with sleet towards the morning. i have d.c. about 6 to 10. as i mentioned be the east side of d.c., closer to the 4 to 6. the west side closer to a foot. >> is this -- chance this becomes a nor'easter? >> it is going to be a nor'easter, yeah. even if we do mix in sleet and rain, seats like providence, boston, on the back side, yeah, a nor'easter. >> for people wondering what happened with winter last year? >> i need a nice, toasty march. >> yes, bill karins, a busy man. thank you very much. up next, it's a question of ethics. we're going to take a "deep dive" into the growing number of lawmakers who simply choose to quit congress rather than face the music. we'll take a journey to the center of the political universe. you might be surprised at what the giant chunk of the country that's not on the right or the left says about immigration. it's a reminder about why maybe

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[ female announcer ] fiber one. and a "deep dive" into a loophole i've been noticing as of late when it comes to the congressional ethics rules, which gives members of congress an easy way out when they're under investigation. the solution? just quit congress. as we speak, the ethics committee is considering whether to hold hearings into alleged spending violations by the number four republican in the house, cathy mcmorris rodgers, one of at least a half dozen members being looked at right now. but in recent years, a handful of lawmakers who found themselves in similar situations escaped by simply leaving office. once they're out of congress, the ethics committee no longer has jurisdiction over them, which means the investigation typically goes away. for example, new jersey congressman rob andrews has been

under investigation for nearly a year amid allegations he misused campaign funds to pay for a family trip to scotland. but andrews announced his resignation last week, and although it's not official, the investigation will likely be dropped. he insists the investigation didn't force his decision. >> it has no role at all. this is a decision that i needed to make in order to fill this opportunity, and i made this decision, because i think it's the right one for my family at this time. no role at all. >> but it certainly was an added benefit, you would imagine. andrews isn't alone. the committee recently dropped its investigation of congressman trey raddle after the investigation had been launched. it was never completed. as radel faced drug possessions, other members found that escaping ethics vitals doesn't mean they get off scot-free. the committee against jackson

was dropped, but he was found guilty, sentenced to 30 months in prison. in other cases, the inquiries was used as a tool to force lawmakers to leave and avoid a full-blown investigation. nancy pelosi twice called for ethics investigations into fellow democratic members. first, she pushed for an inquiry of new york's anthony weiner after he admitted to sending suggestive texts and photos. weiner stepped down just days after they started their preliminary work. less than a month later, she forced an investigation into david wu, having a sexual encounter with an 18-year-old. he resigned the following day. for more on this and the gaming of the ethics committee, i'm joined by daniel brand, a professor at penn state law school, and previously served as counsel to the house of representatives. good morning. >> good morning, chuck. >> it does feel like a pattern here that members of congress choose resignation once the

ethics committee starts digging in. is that a good thing? >> well, as your lead-in suggests, two things. the house has always doubted its authority to punish anybody once they leave. >> right. >> and the second issue is now that we have a public integrity section in the justice department and post-watergate era, members who at least have criminal exposure don't escape. they are still subject to the full panapole of review and charging if it's warranted by the justice department. your example of jesse jackson being a prime case. >> and nathan dooel was another one, and a lot of members of congress in the middle of ethics investigations, and then resigned, and it goes away, and it usually means that much of the investigation -- how often do they actually hand it over to justice and the office of the public of integrity to continue those -- >> there are those cases where that's happened.

in avscam, where you had the justice department ran with it, and the senator pete williams, rather than face expulsion. so they're complementary in that sense. >> when the democrats ran and won back the house, nancy pelosi said one of her -- she was going to strengthen the ethics committee, give it more teeth, more resources and republicans have kept it in place. nobody wants to look like the party that -- >> nobody ever rolls it back. >> nobody ever wants to roll it back. you've defended people on the -- who have been under investigation, maxine waters, so i know you've been on both sides of this, but is the ethics committee working better today than it did ten years ago? >> i think it is. i think the whole impetus for the office of congressional ethics, which came up as a way

to unclog the stalemate has remedied the situation. and now the committee has taken a number of cases, as you pointed out in your lead-in, and has disposed of even more than those cases, either deciding that there was no case or going forward. >> i guess i go back -- is this loophole basically avoiding -- avoiding an investigation -- and i know you said the office -- should congress try to test this and see if they have authority so that basically members don't escape? >> well, one thing i would say, and this is my defense lawyer speaking, leaving congress is no small matter. to the extent that someone motivated, stimulated to leave congress because of an ongoing inquiry, that's a fairly dramatic act of -- >> shurks keeping the benefits, might be keeping their pension. shouldn't congress have the ability to investigate an exmember and perhaps penalize them on the pension, you know, something like that? >> there are laws now if you are convicted of certain high crimes

and mismeans like bribes and gratuities, you can forfeit your pension. the types of things that have been the subject of ethics committee complaints, the code of conduct, has generally not been viewed as rising to that level. >> it is interesting to me that a lot of the ethics investigations stem from misuse of campaign funds. and these days, it is sort of hard, i think sometimes, to figure out what is a political expenditure, what is a government expenditure, what is a personal expenditure. do we need more clarity in these laws? >> well, we have some clarity. one of the problems is we have two different regimes. we have the federal election commission. >> yeah. >> primary jurisdiction -- under the law -- >> what kind of teeth do they have? >> no teeth, because they're split 3-3. and then we have the house ethics committee, and the senate ethics committee, which have similar standards but not completely consistent. so there's a gap, and people are

at risk when they're in that gap. >> is this a case where the ethics in some ways the senate and the house is better at policing this than the fec, should they be, or is this something fec should be doing more of because of how politically they've been neutered, they can't? >> i think, actually, it's more appropriate for the commission to be doing it, because the law gives them plenty of authority over the subject, and it's much easier, i think, to carve that out and let the ethics committee go after more serious issues that arise. >> big, broad statement here. i maintain that the most -- that the least corrupt legislative body in america is the u.s. congress. what do you say to that in. >> i would agree to that, especially in a post-watergate era, because all we've done is layered one standard on top of another. just last congress we passed the stock act to try to get at insider trading. so i would say if anything,

legislators today are more ethical, because they have more rules and regulations to comply with than they did in 1974. >> my other point, the counter, state legislatures, boy, it's like the wild west. >> mostly wide open. except in the larger states. >> yeah, stan brand, an expert at this stuff, political ethics, political integrity. you defend on both sides of the aisle. thank you for coming in. >> my pleasure. >> our apologies to former illinois congressman joe walsh. we flished video of him a moment ago when we meant to show congressman wu. our hump day databake is coming up. find out how much it costs to throw a party for a presidential leader. physical, white house soup of the day. did they serve this last night and is it left over? coconut shrimp. but when she saw the room...

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in d.c. last night, the number, our first one, 7. this this was our president's seventh state dinner since he took office. yes, we count that one official dinner for cameron. the white house honored french president francois hollande. hollande didn't bring a date, so he sat between the president and first lady. our next number from the event last night is six. that's how many of those guests were office-holding republicans. eric cantor was in the democratic crowd, but he also toasted the french president. president's inner circle also showed up in force, that number, 13, that's how many cabinet members attended the dinner. as for celebrities, mary j. blige performed for the crowd. we wanted to know where was daft punk? check this out, that's steven colbert sitting next to the first lady for most of the

dinner, and in another surreal seating arrangement, the real vice president ended up sitting next to tv's fake veep, julia drifus. here's what we do know, this number, $572,000. that's the price of the obama administration's most expensive state dinner. the white house hosted that pricey event back in 2009 to honor the prime minister of india. the cheapest dinner has been $203,000. that was the one to honor the president of south korea. the first one for india is the one that was marred by our friends, the salahis. trivia time, fdr was the president the last time the sitting secretary of state traveled to cuba. secretary stentanias visited havana in 1945. congratulations to today's winner. we'll be right back. which would be fine if bob were a vampire. but he's not.

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time for the wednesday takeaway. today we're going to take a look at our nbc news esquire survey from last fall of the country's political centers. it showed us that it's time to rethink some of our political definitions at the time, and i want to bring it back a bit. no longer is america a country of liberals or conservatives. instead, there was a growing diverse political center. 51% of americans that didn't fit into the blue or red stereotypes of the past, and they fit into our four categories, as we told you back then. it's a little refresher, of course, the sometimes apathetic group here that we dubbed the whatever man centrists. they all bound together by a surprising set of shared ideas. as we told you, they were socially fairly progressive, supporting same-sex a majority of them, raising the minimum wage, legalizing marijuana.

large majorities on two of those issues, narrow majority on marijuana. but there was other parts of this that people sort of skipped over. it leans right on some issues like the environment, capital punishment, diversity issues, posing a pathway to citizenship, offshore oil, the death penalty, but it is immigration that is our focus today, and as we've told you, just one right here, a majority opposed a pathway to citizenship and overall, it's clear that immigration is just not a priority for the center. and perhaps this is the reason republican lawmakers were okay with punting immigration reform until after the midterms or maybe after 2016, because they think there's not a political price to pay this year. maybe it will be with hispanic voters and maybe 2016 is a big problem with them, but in swing voters and in the middle, punting on immigration, potentially not a punishable offense. that's it for this edition of "the daily rundown." coming up next, chris jansing.

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a catastrophic winter storm is developing and it's not just snow. atlanta and parts of the south are bracing for an ice storm that could knock out power to millions for days. also snow problems in sochi. conditions are less than ideal for snowboarding and skiing, as the snow there, it's turning to mush, yet it cost shaun white a medal. the meeting with the pope, got to show his film at the vatican. his fight for families and open adoption records. very good wednesday morning to you. we begin with another crisis averted. the white house and democrats standing their ground and claiming victory in a mostly party line vote. the house voted to raise the spending limit on the nation's credit card. it was a move that could threaten john boehner's speakership. boehner agreed to allow the vote without any strings attached, that avoids default on the