guarantee it will work in lansing, michigan. >> come on down. we'll roll out the red carpet instead of the red tape. >> thanks, virg. that's "the ed show." i'm ed schultz. "politicsnation" with reverend al sharpton starts right now. good evening, rev. good evening, ed. and thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's lead, verdict watch. right now 12 jurors are behind closed doors, deliberating the fate of 47-year-old michael dunn. charged with first-degree murder for killing 17-year-old jordan davis. this case began at this jacksonville, florida gas station on a night in november 2012. michael dunn got into an argument over loud music with four teenagers sitting inside a parked suv. dunn fired ten shots at the vehicle. jordan davis was killed at the scene. dunn says the killing was in self-defense, and that davis threatened him with a gun. >> he says yeah, i'm going to

[ bleep ] kill you. i look, and i'm looking at a barrel. he is showing me a gun and he is threatening me. he said he was going to f-ing kill me. but after he opened the door, then he looked at me and said you're dead, [ bleep ]. >> and were you still sitting this in shock? >> yes, i was. >> were you still in fear for your life? >> i became even more fearful at that point. >> okay. at that point, what did you believe was about to happen to you? >> i thought i was going to be killed. >> did you even think he might even be able to get a shot off? >> yes, i kid. >> that testimony wasn't backed up by any other witness or any of the evidence in the case. the prosecution says it never happened. >> when that defendant opened fire, jordan davis was sitting in his car seat with the door closed, with nothing in his hands.

and he was leaning over, away from the gunfire, toward leland bronson. jordan davis didn't have a weapon, he had a big mouth. and that defendant wasn't going to stand for it, and it cost jordan davis his life. this case is not about self-defense, it's about self-denial. >> this case centers on one question, will the jury believe mr. dunn was really in fear? at the heart of this case is the controversial stand your ground law that says you can use deadly force if you feel threatened. the law became a national controversy after george zimmerman was acquitted in the killing of unarmed trayvon martin seven months ago. and now seven months later, a jury is right now discussing

that same self-defense claim in the state of florida. today the jury asked four questions of the judge. they asked to see the gas station video that was shown in court. it's 20 minutes of footage from multiple angles. they also asked to see the dummy used by the prosecution to illustrate where jordan was shot. the judge did not allow them to see this because it wasn't entered into evidence. and they had additional request. a dry easel or large paper, which they received, some missing pages from one juror's jury instructions, and late this afternoon, they wanted to know the date of a letter mr. dunn sent his brother last june from jail. so we wait on a jury of 12 inside that florida jury room to decide if michael dunn is guilty for the killing of jordan davis. if convicted, dunn could face

life in prison. back with us tonight is former prosecutor faith jenkins and florida criminal defense lawyer ken padowitz. ken, it's been 11 hours, 11 hours so far. take us inside that jury room. what does this mean? what is your take on this? >> well, what it means is that they're being very thorough in going through that evidence, taking a look at it, and deliberating amongst themselves as to the meaning of the evidence, as to how much weight they're going to give the evidence, how much weight they're going to give testimonial evidence, how much weight they're going to give the physical evidence that has been entered into evidence in that courtroom. they're being very thorough. any other read, anyone who says that it means by the fact that they're out longer, it leans more towards one verdict or another is basically full of baloney. nobody can say if you have been a trial lawyer and you have tried more than a few cases,

nobody can say which way this jury is leaning or what it means. they can be deliberating between first-degree murder and second-degree murder or they may be deliberating between second-degree murder and a not guilty verdict. no one can say. but we can say from these questions that they're being thorough. and that's what we want from our jurors. we want them to be thorough with the evidence. >> faith, you thought last night, you told me that they would be back today. it's 11 hours. they're not back. what does this mean to you? >> well, it's 12 jurors here. remember, in most cases in florida, unless it's first-degree murder, it's six jurors. so you have to have 12 people that come to a unanimous verdict. and also, michael dunn testified. and you can see from some of their questions that they are really considering his testimony and looking at it closely, which is what happens whenever you have a defendant who takes the witness stand in a case there is the state's evidence, but there is a lot of focus on what the defendant said and if he is telling the truth, does it line up, is he being consistent? and i think they're taking their

time and going through that evidence. now, as i mentioned, ken, this the jury was asked four questions. i want to recap them and get your response. 7:41 p.m. yesterday they asked to see the surveillance video from the gas station. at 1:20 p.m. today, they asked to see the dummy with the sticks used by the prosecution. that was denied. at 2:55 p.m., they asked for a large paper or easel. 4:30, they asked when a jailhouse letter was written by dunn, asking the date. what does this say to you? >> well, what it says to me is it confirms what faith just said a few moments ago. in florida, almost every -- not almost, every single criminal case in florida has a six-member jury. the only exception is first-degree murder where you have 12 jurors. so what these questions mean to me is you have 12 people back in

that room, and various opinions are being put forth, various arguments are being made, and they're looking at each piece of evidence very carefully. sometimes to get a consensus in the room, you know. there is all kinds of things that this jury is taking a look at. so what it means to me is that they're being thorough. well want jurors to take a look at the evidence. there are very important stakes here. there has been a child who has been killed, a teenager dead, and there is a man on trial for his life. so we want jurors to be thorough and examine the evidence and be convinced beyond and to the exclusion of every reasonable doubt. and they're doing their jobs, in my opinion. >> now, faith, i want to go back to that letter, because that caught my eye. the letter the jury asked for was one dictated to his brother in june of 2013, after the shooting. the prosecution asked about this. watch. >> five minutes ago, didn't you just tell this jury he was

outside the car? >> he sure was. his door was open. >> okay. but you wrote in your -- >> you know if his feet were outside and his body was inside, that's a little splitting hairs. >> mr. dunn, did you write he had apparently seen me go for my own weapon and dove back inside the suv? >> absolutely. that's what i wrote. that's not what i knew at the time, but this is what i surmised. >> so you said they looked for contradictions. >> right. >> he has testified that this young man was outside the car. i mean, this was his claim. yet he writes in a letter with his brother from jail afterward that he was outside the car and jumped in the car, got back in the car when we saw me go for my gun. now, again, you two are the lawyers. but faith, if he went inside the car after he saw him go for his

gun, how was that being -- how do you establish that i'm shooting him out of fear when i'm saying to you that he ran from me, not toward me. >> right. >> or that he was pointing a gun at me. >> well, you can't. an that's the problem. that's why the prosecutor said his story had evolved over time, and the truth is the truth. it does not change. dunn's story has changed. it's gotten better as time has gone on. now in court he is saying jordan was outside the car, coming at him with a shotgun in his hands and saying i'm going to kill you, and even using a racial term, calling him a cracker. these are things he never said earlier when he was first arrested. these are things the story has changed over time. and the prosecutors are hoping that the jurors will pick up on this, that dunn's story has changed, he has not been consistent, and that he is lying and trying to make a case of self-defense for himself when there is just nothing there. >> ken, the makeup of the jury, four white females, four white males, two black females, one

asian female, one hispanic male, will the makeup of the jury mean anything differently than we saw in the zimmerman case? >> well, i think it sounds to me like the makeup of the jury is good. we have a cross section of people from the community. and i think that's always a good thing when you're being judged by your peers in a trial. and that is what our system is based on, our system of justice is getting a fair streile from people in the community. and i think this looks like a good cross section. other than that, i think one needs to be very careful about reading too much into which way this helps the verdict, one way or the other. i would be very cautious about that. >> faith, a major flash point in this case came when the prosecution questioned dunn and his fiancee over whether he ever mentioned he saw a gun in the teen's car. watch this. >> did you tell her they had a weapon of any kind? >> yes, i did. >> you did? what did you tell her?

to tell the jury the term you used to describe the weapon? >> i don't know what i said, but i told her that they had a weapon, they threatened my life, and they were -- they -- he advanced upon me. >> how did you describe the weapon? did you say he had a sword? did you say they had a machete? >> gun. >> a gun. you used the word gun with rhonda rouer? when? >> multitypical times. >> did the defendant ever tell you he saw a gun in that red suv? >>. no. >> did the defendant ever tell you he saw a weapon of any kind in that suv? >> no. >> there is no mention of a stick? >> no. >> there is no mention of a shotgun? >> no. >> there was no mention of a barrel? >> no. >> there was no mention of a lead pipe? >> no. >> now, this is his girlfriend. she was there. she was inside the gas station when he shot the kid. she immediately came out, left with him, stayed with him the

next day. she said he never mentioned a gun. obviously you saw on the tape, he said he mentioned it multiple times. how important is this to a jury? >> i think this was a pivotal point in the trial, and i'm sure that this is something that is being discussed behind closed doors in that jury room, because rhonda rouer came up and said he never, ever mentioned a gun. and if there was a gun pointed at you and you are afraid for your life, and your fiancee comes back and gets in the car with you seconds later, one of the first things you're going to say at some point that night, i just had a gun pointed at me and i had to shoot and i had to save my own life. the only reasonable explanation for him not telling his fiancee that is because it never happened. he didn't forget. he wasn't under stress. the gun just didn't exist. >> well, the jury is about to break for dinner. but you guys are not. y'all are going to hang around in case we need to get back. ken padowitz, faith, thank you both for your time. ahead, what the michael dunn trial means for stand your ground.

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we're still waiting for a verdict in the so-called loud music trial. the jury has been sent home or to the hotel for the evening. but one thing is clear. stand your ground is once again front and center in florida. the controversial self-defense law states that if a person isn't engaged in unlawful activity in a place they have a right to be, they have no duty to retreat. a right to stand their ground, and can meet force with force, including deadly force if they reasonably believe it is necessary. michael dunn's lawyer used many of those exact phrases in his closing arguments.

>> michael dunn was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in a place where he had the right to be, a public parking lot, asking for a common courtesy, saying thank you, trying to tell the guy, hey, i said thank you. he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force. >> dunn himself also used language associated withstand your ground defense on the stand when he testified. >> he is showing me a gun and he is threatening me. i thought i was going to be killed. it was self-defense. i had no choice but to defend myself. it was life or death. i had already been afraid for my life, but now the fear was imminent. i'm not going to forfeit my life to somebody. >> controversy over stand your

ground exploded on to the national stage when george zimmerman claimed self-defense in the killing of unarmed trayvon martin. it came up again in florida, with marissa alexander, who was sentenced to 20 years after firing what she says was a warning shot. her husband had a history of domestic abuse, yet she wasn't allowed to claim stand your ground, and nobody was injured. she is currently awaiting a new trial. and now we have michael dunn's loud music case, the latest to bring attention to stand your ground. but it's unlikely to be the last. florida was the first state to add the stand your ground law to its books in 2005. but since then similar laws have spread all over the country. this law allows someone to shoot first and ask questions later. it's a law that actually encourages violence.

it's unjust. and that's why we have to keep pushing for its repeal. joining me now are congresswoman corrine brown, democrat of florida, and lisa bloom. she is a legal analyst for avo.com and author of "suspicion nation: inside story of trayvon martin and justice and why we continue to repeat it." thank you for being here to both of you. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> let me go to you first, congresswoman. you've been one of the strongest voices speaking out about the need to change stand your ground. how does the dunn case affect your fight against stand your ground in your opinion? >> first of all, i've been in the courtroom all day today. i've been with the family, the davis family. and, you know, the mother named her son jordan after the jordan river. and she will never be able, regardless of the verdict, to be

able to see her son graduate. you know, marry, have children. we have to change this law. it is so -- it's a sloppy, it's unruly, and it sends the wrong message. it is -- it encourages people to start the offense, you know. basically, you're going to tell me the music was a weapon? >> right. >> i mean it just -- >> let me ask you this, lisa. you know, the prosecutors, they also use the language of stand your ground in their presentation. listen to this. >> this defendant was not justified. he did not have a reasonable belief that jordan davis was about to kill him or cause great bodily harm. >> that defendant didn't shoot into a car full of kids to save his life. he shot into it to preserve his

pride, period. >> lisa, did the prosecution make the case that stand your ground was not applicable to this situation? >> well, first of all, stand your ground is a terrible law. it's a law that has a lot of blood on its hands, including the blood of jordan davis and many others. and let's get real for a moment when it's an african american victim shot by a white shooter, that white shooter is far more likely to be acquitted or never even charged in stand your ground states. so that's a big problem. now as to how the prosecution handled it, what they should have done is broken down the law and emphasized the parts that are good for the state, because even in a stand your ground case, the defendant has to have been in reasonable fear of great bodily injury or death. reasonable. he testified out of his own mouth that he panicked. panic is not reasonable fear. this is a man who was in his car. the young man, jordan davis was in his car.

he could have easily driven away. before stand your ground, he would have been required under the law to start up his car and drive off that would have been his means of escape. but with stand your ground as the law of florida, he was not required to do that. and that's why it's so important and so terrible as applied in this case. >> let me just add one other thing to it. stand your ground is part of the instructions that the jury receive. >> yeah. >> now that's a problem. >> let me ask you this, congresswoman. you're absolutely right. and you know, michael dunn's lawyer talked about george zimmerman today. listen to this. >> my personal belief, and i think i said it from the beginning, because of the george zimmerman case, a lot more was focused on this case where had we never heard about george zimmerman, i don't think you or i would be standing in this room talking about mr. dunn. >> now, before george zimmerman and you and i both were involved in saying we wanted to see that go to trial, before george

zimmerman had any one really focussed in and heard of this stand your ground your law, congresswoman? >> well, it was the beginning. it started in 2005, and it spread throughout the country. >> right. >> and it really embolds people. it sends the wrong message. this is not the way we should encourage conflict resolution. but it is -- i hate to say it, it's like shoot first and then you've come up with some reason why you shot and killed somebody. >> now, let me go back to you on this, lisa. the young men that were in the car with jordan davis testifying, and they told what they saw and what they say occurred. listen to this. >> what happened to jordan davis as tommy stornes was backing up. did he stay sitting up or did he do something else? >> i tried to pull him down, but when i pulled him down, he just

fell into my lap. >> how did you first learn that jordan davis had been shot? >> when tommy began to call our names. me and leland replied, but jordan didn't. when we found out jordan was hit, that's when everybody went into a panic. >> did you touch anything that led you to believe he had been shot? >> yes. >> what? >> when i reached -- when i reached and touched him, blood appeared on my fingers. >> if you met jordan and know jordan, he had a big heart. just meeting him, you can get a vibe of what type of person he was. >> how effective, lisa, were the three friends of jordan davis that were in the car when he was killed, they were in the car with him? >> i think they were very effective. they came across as respectful young men who were taking a stand to tell the truth. i mean, i can't say whether every single thing they said was completely accurate, but they've gone through a terrible trauma. imagine being 17, 18 years old and having to do a role call to

see whether your friends are still alive after an argument about loud music at a gas station. and that's what happened. that's the result of a culture of lax gun laws, racial profiling, and stand your ground. until we change those three things, unfortunately, we're going to continue to see cases like this. >> let me just add one thing to that -- >> regardless of the verdict, congresswoman, are you determined to continue to fight with many of us against this law? >> we have to, because those young men in the car was collateral damage. if they had been killed, it would have been well, so what. >> congresswoman, you're right. congresswoman corrine brown. >> we got to deal with this bill. >> congresswoman corrine brown, lisa bloom, thank you both for your time tonight. >> thank you. coming up, obama care enrollment is surging, and it's sending some on the right into desperation mode. from buchanan saying god will

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on a step ladder. a 401(k) is the most sound way to go. let's talk asset allocation. sure. you seem knowledgeable, professional. would you trust me as your financial advisor? i would. i would indeed.

well, let's be clear here. i'm actually a dj. [ dance music plays ] [laughs] no way! i have no financial experience at all. that really is you? if they're not a cfp pro, you just don't know. find a certified financial planner professional who's thoroughly vetted at letsmakeaplan.org. cfp -- work with the highest standard. get out the popcorn. it's time for some unreality tv. conservatives are out with a new tv ad that accidentally exposes the phony attacks on obamacare. >> dear mrs. kelly, your family plan is no longer available under the affordable care act. your doctor is no longer in the network due to the affordable care act. >> due to the affordable care act, your monthly premium has increased. >> wow. they're really trying to show

you real images of real people losing their insurance. just one problem. all these people you see in the ad are paid actors. they're just pretending to be victims. they're getting paid for it. a spokesman for the group behind the ad defended it, saying it's meant to be, quote, cinematic. great idea. they're fighting real world facts with right wing fictions. but while they're at it, why not include some real hollywood actors? like this guy. ♪ go ahead, make his day. what about a real conservative fighter? or how about a republican actor who played a "law & order" type.

on second thought, hollywood conservatives don't always make the best spokeswomen. take a seat, clint. >> what do you want me to tell romney? i can't tell him to do that. can't do that to himself. you're absolutely crazy. >> let's put away the gop script and look at the facts. month after month, the number of americans getting coverage under obamacare is rapidly growing. all told, 3.3 million americans have now enrolled in private plans. 3.3 million. republicans can produce all the phony attack ads they want, but americans are tuning them out, and americans are getting covered. joining me now are congressman jim mcdermott, democrat of washington and msnbc contributor

victoria di francesco soto. thanks for being on the show tonight. >> it's good to be here. >> thanks, reverend. >> congressman, how can conservatives use paid actors to attack health care for real people? >> well, they can't find any real people, i guess. or maybe they don't know any real people. but the fact is that the american people want to have health security, and the republicans are swimming, they're trying to swim up niagara falls. the people have figured out this is a good idea, and all i got to go is go over there and do a little shopping, a little thinking, and i can have it for me and my family. and they're going in by the millions, actually. more than three million people. and it's going to keep coming. it's going to be 21 million or more by the time it's all done. it's just driving the republicans nuts to see what obama has done is actually working. >> you know, victoria,

congresswoman michele bachmann predicts obama care will be stopped by a divine force. listen to this. >> do you see any path, any path of stopping it? >> you know, i really do. i believe that god listens to his people, and i think if believers humble themselves, confess their sins and pray, i think god hears our hearts, and he moves. he moves in miraculous ways. >> so the right wing uses paid actors, and now they're even looking to the heavens above to stop obama care. is this what happens when you don't have any real plans to give health care to people of your own? >> reverend, i would ask michele bachmann what would jesus do? would jesus want to turn away people with preexisting conditions? would jesus want to see millions upon millions of people who do not have access to affordable health care go without? i would aspire to think that the

answer is no. and more importantly, for the gop, where is that compassion in the conservatism they so espouse in being a more religious party? so i'm just dumbfounded when michele bachmann brings god into the equation, because what would a divine god, what would jesus do in an incident like this? >> i'm dumbfounded with you. for a long time, the right wingers kept predicting obamacare would simply collapse. watch this. >> a law that is so massive, burdensome, bureaucratic and confusing that it's collapsing under its own weight. >> the collapse of obama care, it's happening right before our eyes. >> i mean this when i say this. thing law is going to collapse under its own weight. >> but it hasn't collapsed. as you say, over three million have signed up. is all of this that we're seeing that appears to me close to hysteria, is it because obama care has not collapsed and in

fact has begun to show signs of really working beyond expectations in the last month? >> i think, reverend, they are upset because they have used every trick in the advertising industry to try and make people afraid and make people think it wouldn't work. they spent millions and millions and millions of dollars in the election of 2012. people looked at it and said we don't believe it. we want more of it. we're going to reelect the president. and now as it's going into effect, they're intensifying the efforts and the people still keep coming in and signing up because the people are not stupid. >> right. >> and the republicans are acting as though the americans don't know what is in their best interest. they do -- they know it's in their best interest to provide for their families. and they're going in and buying it, because they know it's good for them and for their kids. it's just -- they can't

advertise their way out of this. people want it. >> you know, victoria, right wing politicians in 25 states are still refusing to expand medicaid. the result, 5.8 million americans are being denied coverage. one state blocking medicaid expansion is texas, your state, where a man named israel helton is telling his story for months. a tumor grew in his brain, but he got minimal medical attention because he lacked insurance. listen to this. >> so right now they're just trying to work as far as extending the length. and i believe if i did have some type of health care insurance, i would have been able to afford to get maybe a second opinion and maybe already gotten more detail as far as the type of

exams that they did on me. >> this is not an actor. this is a real story who is really saying, victoria, if he had health insurance, he might have been able to get a second opinion and deal with this in time. now he feels he is dying. he has been told he is dying. this is the reality of what we're dealing with. >> and it's these real stories, these real people who are going to push us, inch by inch to eventually adopt the aca universally. and this is going to be played out in the 2014 and the 2016 election. we see states where it is working, and people, like israel, who would have had a chance to get health care, are going to want to vote for a party that is going to extend these benefits. >> congressman jim mcdermott, victoria di francesco soto, thank you both for your time. >> thank you. coming up, think you have heard everything rush has to say about the president? think again. his new rant is a doozy, and it

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so ally bank really has no hthat's right, no hidden fees.s? it's just that i'm worried about, you know, "hidden things." ok, why's that? well uhhh... surprise!!! um... well, it's true. at ally there are no hidden fees. not one. that's nice. no hidden fees, no worries. ally bank. your money needs an ally. some on the right have adopted a new line that this president is a dictator, that he is ignoring our laws. well, now there is a new one. >> this law of the land doesn't even exist. it exists in obama's head. it's whatever he thinks, he

wakes up in the morning and decides what the law is going to be. that is an understatement. that's not the way it's supposed to work. >> hear that? all those laws that were passed and signed by president obama, it turns out they don't exist. it was all in his head. and if that's not unhinged enough for you, then just listen to mr. limbaugh. >> what do we do to stop somebody as lawless, some president as lawless as this? what do we do? nobody knows. nobody knows what to do. nobody knows how to stop him giving away money. nobody know house to beat him giving away money. nobody knows how to deal with a guy who makes up the law every day as he gets up. we've never dealt with it. so nobody knows what to do. nobody knows what to go on tv and say. nobody knows what kind of policy to author. nobody knows file a lawsuit? whose got standing? who do we sue and on what basis?

>> who do we sue? we have to sue somebody, sue anybody, sue everybody. the right wingers have totally detached themselves from reality. and if you're wondering how they can get back, i think rush said it best. nobody knows. joining me now, krystal ball and bill press. thank you both for coming on the show. >> thanks for having us, rev. >> krystal, so now apparently obama care only exists in obama's head. is it me or are these conservatives cracking up? >> well, here is the thing that i love. and that is just so typical. it does not matter what he does, he is going to be criticized from the republicans. you know, if he does one thing, they'll say oh, he is ineffective. he is leading from behind. he is not being a strong enough leader. >> right. >> if he does another thing, then he is a dictator. he is lawless. he is ruling with an iron fist. and on this particular example, it's especially hypocritical, because here they are begging for the president to eliminate

the mandate altogether to change the law in all these different ways. so when he does make a small tweak to it, suddenly they're up in arms when he is doing part of the exact thing they have been begging him to do. >> you know, bill, there has been a disturbing trend from some on the right, compare the policies of this administration to nazi germany. and last night fox contributor ben carson defended that kind of talk. listen to this. >> the objective of many on the left is to take a single word that you're not supposed to say. you can't say nazis, you can't say slavery. that's political correctness, as you well know. i do not believe in that. i think it's a bunch of crap. i'm worried about the fact that the populous is being silent and is not expressing what they believe because they're afraid. they've been intimidated. >> by? by whom? >> by the government. >> how? >> by the government and by the media, by the pc police.

>> i mean, bill, it's unreal. >> no, it is unreal. first, i just got to say, i have a good idea for rush limbaugh. you know what to do? tell the truth for once. >> good luck with that. >> stop telling the lies, maybe. that's what they really ought to do. as to ben carson, reverend al, you and i met way back when i was doing "crossfire" on cnn, right? we had a rule. pat buchanan, bob novak and i all agreed. anybody who used the nazi word or who used hitler that. >> automatically lost. they lost all credibility. and for ben carson to go there just shows how desperate they are. but here is what bothers me. where is the leadership of the republican party. >> right. >> where is reince priebus? reince priebus got his underwear in a snit, right, in a twist because somebody at msnbc said something about a cheerios ad and didn't even mention the republican party. he demanded a correction and

boycott and all that kind of crap. where is his leadership and why is john boehner using the same lawlessness language that we hear from rush limbaugh and krauthammer? we expect it from the nut jobs. we don't expect it from the leadership of the party. >> it's a trend. and if people like priebus has a legitimate complaint, they have a right to exercise it and all of us ought to be responsible. but it should go both ways. >> absolutely. >> you know, krystal, it's personal. it's not only policy, it's personal. just yesterday, rush limbaugh attacked michelle obama for her state dinner attire. listen to this. >> you see that dress is bigger than the president of france. it's a marie antoinette dress is exactly right. they're living like royalty, and they're on purpose doing so, and they're flaunting it. >> now, i mean this -- first of all, i was a guest at the dinner so, in full disclosure.

and a lot of beautiful dresses there. everyone was marveling at mrs. obama's dress. what is rush's problem? >> again, they cannot do anything. i mean, she can't even wear a beautiful dress without being criticized by rush limbaugh in such a nasty way. and he has been particularly venomous towards her since the beginning. remember he called her moo-chelle. and it's been really nasty, really personal there is no line that this guy won't cross. and he still is very much an intellectual leader in the republican party. no one is willing to stand up to this guy. when he made his comments about sandra fluke, calling her a slut and a prostitute. >> right. >> there was no one in the party who was willing to call him out. it's pathetic. >> it's hurt them, because, bill, the negative talk as brought him down to where just 25 of americans identify as republicans. that's the lowest number in at least 25 years. >> you know what it is,

reverend? they are driven by hate. and i don't think the american people want hate in their politics. but that's all these people know. it is hate talk against the president, against michelle obama, the first lady, and it's been that way from the beginning. remember back in 2008, mark levin, another nut job talk show host said when president obama had big crowds at his rallies, they said he is like hitler because he had big crowds at his rallies. they've had this obsession from the beginning. they are sick. they're mentally deranged commentators as far as i'm concerned. >> but the sadness of it, krystal, is that there is something that all of us -- i know i'm speaking for myself, would want to see a viable debate in this country. >> yes. >> and hearing policies on both sides. >> yes. >> and not venom, not just hate, not just name-calling, but let's really debate and come down to some real answers. >> that's right. because if you only have one party that is offering

solutions, they're not going to be as good. you have to have that creative marketplace of ideas. and republicans have totally fallen down on the job. the only thing that they can do is attack the president, attack the first lady, attack anything that they put forward without thinking of what an alternative might look like. >> krystal ball and bill press, i'm going have to leave it there. thank you both for your time this evening. >> all right. >> thanks, rev. >> be sure to watch krystal on "the cycle" weekdays at 3:00 p.m. right here on msnbc. ahead, senator ted cruz is trying to roll back rights for same sex couples. we've seen this before. why are we fighting? coming up. ♪ nothing says, "you're my #1 copilot," like a milk-bone biscuit. ♪ say it with milk-bone.

under jim crow, businesses were allowed to discriminate. and right now some republicans are trying to do it again. why we won't let them roll back progress, next. vo: whatever trip you're imagining,

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gay couples. supporters claim it's all about religious freedom. but really, it's just blatant discrimination. in idaho, a gop lawmaker has proposed a bill that would protect doctors and police officers who refuse to help gays and lesbians. and in washington, senator ted cruz is going back to the old state's rights defense, introducing a bill that would let states push back against any federal support of gay marriage. this is discrimination, plain and simple. america is changing. the gop needs to change with it. we all deserve our basic human rights, regardless of color, creed, gender, or sexual orientation. we ought to stop talking about who was discriminated against the most. we need to stop all discrimination. to discriminate to any degree against anyone opens the door of discrimination to everyone.

let us all start comparing our rules and which rules are deeper and let us all unite and heal our wounds. i'm all sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. dragnet. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews down in washington. let me start tonight with this. up in new jersey tonight, the dragnet is closing. the iron grip of subpoenas now ensnaring chris christie's political army, from trenton to the hudson river. the people who stopped traffic across the country's busiest bridge are now among those caught in a web of investigations that threaten trouble to them and the governor for whom they serve. twoet