right to refuse service to arizona legislators. it is funny how just being decent is radical. that does it for us. do you like my new set? on to us, thank you again. the annual meeting of the national governors association, the annual meeting of a whole lot of people who want to be elected president in 2016. it's monday, february 24th, and this is "now." >> president obama -- >> hasn't had much success with a divided congress. >> i'm glad to engage in a dialogue with all of you. >> this is all pretty

choreographed. >> i enjoyed watching some of you size up the drapes and each other. enter the void. with the nation's governors gathered in washington, some republicans are seeing a george washington bridge sized opportunity to steal the spotlight. at a meeting earlier today, president obama took notice. >> -- some of you with your eyes on higher office size up the drapes and each other. >> one guy without a white house tape measure chris christie, who cut the weekend short to head back to new jersey on sunday morning. at this afternoon's republican governors press conference, some

people, bobby jindal, took advantage of the absence. >> rj is more important than any just one governor. it wasn't about the chairman when i was the chairman last year and it's not this year. >> the chairman is in hot water and you never liked him all that much anyway. chris christie is not the only governor with a lot more than the white house drapery on his mind. yesterday, the usually tropical warm climate of fox news had a chill in the air. >> the district attorney has reviewed every one of these issues. >> you're not answering my question. >> which looms larger, the

george washington bridge or a stack of 20,000 e-mail? joining me now is mark halperin and former governor of ohio, governor ted strickland. thank you so much for joining us. i want to start with you, governor. you have weighed in on the possible ineptitude. >> i think he has some answers that he needs to be forthcoming with. some things that were said in the e-mails that were not illegal portrayed an attitude of intolerance. the department of natural resources is supposed to oversee

the fracking industry. there's an enemies' list that oppose fracking. initially they denied it and through public records request that information has come forth and the governor's office has been implicated in this. there are several republican governors that have a lot to explain if they're contemplating being president in 2016. >> with he and chris christie, there's the issue of guilt. there's still the issue of what kind of climate he creates in his office. as governor strickland says, a

climate of inktolerance and questionable attitudes about race. how much do you think he needs to come forward before he goes any further with a possible presidential bid? >> there's not a governor's office in the country that doesn't have employees worried about politics. first, he didn't answer the questions on fox news sunday. he didn't answer questions today to local papers. he's going to have answer more questions about these things. the other thing is you've got to have major league people around you if you want to run for president. and the attitude and the practices of the people around governor walker, they're not up to the level for someone who aspires to be president or run against hillary clinton. can you stack up against hillary clinton? the team around scott walker

looked like amateur hour not just no terms of carelessness, but in the level they were playing politics. >> strickland, mark brings up a great point. these you been disciplined character assassinations -- you have these disciplined character assassinations. if christie runs for president, that would never fly. you understand what it means to run a state. are you surprised at the sort of lackadaisical incompetence we're seeing in the management of these scandals? >> alex, they say the fish rots from the head. and i think any staff takes on the characteristics of their

leader. what happened in governor christie's office, i think, happened because either he knew or his staff believed that he would agree with what they were doing. and the same thing with scott walker. this says something very fundamental about these two men, their characters, and their judge of character. if they do not have the ability to recognize talent and ethical behavior on the part of their staff, as i said earlier, god help us if either one of them were to become president because you have to delegate authority. the people you delegate authority to must be people of high integrity, good judgment, and someone that you can trust. and in both of these cases, either governor walker and governor christie knew what was being said and what was being done and tolerated it, or they were so out of the loop that it

says something about their leadership and management skills. >> yeah, which is why you never delegate authority to me, mark. >> i have specific instructions. >> very detailed. jonathan martin in "the new york times" talks about how the landscape is how there are abject insurgency with the parties. democrats tend to be the ones that are casting about for a nominee. you've written books about political campaigns. where do you think this leaves us right now? do you have a frontrunner for the republican presidential race in 2016? >> they've always had someone at

this point that was the frontrunner. i don't think jeb bush will get in anytime soon. he's the only one at this point. he's the only one that could assume that role. they are without a frontrunner. they won't have one. in this age where the party is at war with itself, that's a very uncomfortable position for them to be in. approxima the democrats have a frontrunner with hillary clinton. they do want a governor or a former governor. >> should we be paying more attention to bobby jindal. is rick perry going to be on the main stage at the end of the day? >> i think governor strickland's successor despite fracking gate

is in the mix. there are 15 candidates wide open. bobby jindal has a-plus people around him. he's a very smart guy. he understands the politics of the party and how to bridge the legality and grass roots. >> governor strickland, what do you think about governor caseic? where do you think he stands? >> recent polling showing hillary clinton would best him in ohio and every other potential republican candidate, but the fact is that governor caseic has a record now. he talks about the ohio miracle. there is no ohio miracle. we're 45th in job creation. we've lost more jobs per capita

i believe perhaps than any other state in america. unemployment is now going up rather than down. so i think governor caseic has to worry about being reelected in 2014 quite frankly before he thinks about 2016. whoever the republicans bring on board, i think, is facing a terrific challenge if secretary clinton decides to seek this office. i think she's by far the frontrunner. the country is ready and hungering for the leadership of a woman in that position. we want to break the glass ceiling as we did with the racial divide in electing barack obama. anyway, i think things are looking pretty good for the democrats when it comes to 2016, but we've got to get through 2014. and a lot of these governors that you've mentioned, walker, scott, the governor of florida, pennsylvania, michigan, these republican governors, i think,

face real challenges and some of them are not going to be reelected in 2014. >> one thing is for sure, it is going to be a rocking and rolling election in 2016. thank you both. for your time and thoughts. >> thank you, alex. coming up, from the most miserable to the most livable, where's the best place in america? first, ukraine's former president flees kiev while putin plots his next move. we'll get a live report next on "now." everybody knows that. well, did you know that when a tree falls in the forest and no one's around, it does make a sound? ohhh...ugh.

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the ukrainian president who fled kiev over the weekend is now wanted for mass murder. the country's acting interior minister issued a warrant of arrest accusing him of killing dozens of peaceful protesters that left 82 people dead. the parliament voted to strip him of his title. he is unclear exactly where he is at the moment. the latest reports placed him in the russian stronghold in southern ukraine. thousands of ukrainians visited the presidential compound. it has half a dozen residencies, a private zoo with peacocks, and garages full of vintage cars and

boats. opposite militants took control of the residence. presidential elections are scheduled for may 25th. joining me now from london is a reporter. what is the timeline for rebuilding ukraine's government? elections on may 25th are fairly soon given how d divided the country is. >> can you have a vibrant pluralist competition for the presidential elections? some officials have been

expressing reservations about that. they're declaring tomorrow as the opening day for candidates to come forward and declare themselves. now the political opposition has been somewhat over the course of the last several months -- been somewhat fragmented. the protesters themselves have not necessarily connected with some of the political parties that were calling for the president to step down. some of those that were released from prison, there's an individual who served as prim minu -- prime minister in the past. there's no clear frontrunner who can possibly fill that. >> how likely do you think it is he'll be convicted of killing protesters of mass murder? his own party released the

statement that all responsibility lies with the president. we condemn the betrayal. what's the mood there in terms of wanting to see him punished for this? >> the tide has shifted quickly against the president within the establishment of power. his party has disavowed him and calling him a coward. the minister of interior rushed to try and preserve any evidence. even those who visited his house on the weekend, they're not destroying or looting any of that, which can be used evidence of corruption and opulence that he lived in. it's not clear whether the lavish lifestyle was paid for by the state. more importantly, the issue of the shooting of the protesters,

there have been several examples that have come out that show the police firing openly on the protesters with live ammunition. many of them being killed as a result of that. did the president give that order? i think right now there's enough evidence being built and being put together by the acting government to suggest yes. that certainly is their belief and that's something that led the minister of the interior to issue the arrest warrant for the president. >> it is a dramatic story. we've been following it closely. thank you so much for your time. coming up, what happens when you put a man in solitary confinement for 23 years? ben wallace wells takes us inside california's pelican bay prison.

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from legitimate rape to uncle sugar, it appears republicans cannot help themselves when it comes to speaking dismissively about women's reproductive rights. steve martin in a facebook post last week sounded off about pregnant women and reproduction. he didn't expect to be in the room or do anything to prevent you -- you being you woman -- from obtaining a contraceptive. once a child does exist in your womb, i'm not going to assume a right to kill it just because the host doesn't want it. he has since changed his

facebook post from "it" to "bearer of the child." you are a person. it is really embarrassing for everyone, especially you. coming up, lobbying is dead. long live lobbying. that's next. ...return on investment wall isn't a street... isn't the only return i'm looking forward to... for some, every dollar is earned with sweat, sacrifice, courage. which is why usaa is honored to help our members with everything from investing for retirement to saving for college.

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campaign. they will not run my white house. and they will not drown out the voices of the american people. >> that was then candidate barack obama back in 2008 delivering what was in many ways the theme of his first presidential campaign. an end to the suffocating influence of essential interests over the national agenda. but six years later, the lobbying industry is not only stronger. it's become more secretive. the increasingly off the books world of influence peddling in our nation's capital. it's dipped to the lowest number since 2002. the real number of working lobbyists is closer to 100,000. while official figures place lobbying spending at $3.2 billion, the real number is closer to 9 billion. the reason -- lobbying is still

really good business. a 2009 study used the example of multinational companies that lobbied for a one-time tax holiday. they found on average the companies received a 22,000% return on the money they spent on lobbying. that's a frighteningly amazing return. a lot of people want in on this and a lot of people are available to do it. lobbying has basically become a club for recovering lawmakers looking to cash in. chris dodd made $3.3 million as chief of the american motion picture association. tim now makes over $1.8 million a year as the head of the banking lobbies financial services round table.

joining me now to discuss all this is the author of "the shadow lobbying contest." congratulations on a thoroughly depressing piece of writing about what exactly is going on with money spending and special interests in washington. there are these shadow groups that you describe that are funded by big business interests that claim a certain amount of money spent on lobbying, when in reality that number is much higher. you cite the electronic payments coalition group that's opposed to a dodd-frank provision that capped the amount banks could charge retailers. they only spent $1 million on

lobbying, but the actually spending you estimate is $17 million. walk us through that. >> the lobbying disclosure act is outdated. it only covers a certain type of lobbying. you hire someone to go to congress and ask people about a bill to pressure staff and lawmakers on a certain position. really the lobbying industry is much more sophisticated than that. this particular group, they hire telemarkete telemarketers, they hired legal analysts, they hired former staffers to go around the city. all this type of advocacy is beyond the definition of the lda. it has huge loopholes. you can still find a creative argument for nondisclosure. you have this problem across all the major industry groups where folks are simply not reporting. >> we play that sound from the president speaking in 2008 because in many ways his idea

about money and politics was a big part of his presentation to the american public the first time he ran for office. in trying to clean washington and the white house of lobbying, i think inadvertently we can say the laws that were passed an the standards that were passed in the white house had the effect of driving lobbying underground. people take themselves off the role of lobbyists, but are still lobbying. >> there's always a consequence to regulation, whether it is campaign finance rules or lobbying. the broader change here, alex, is a cultural one, the culture of politics. and there's a culture of entitlement now. you had the opportunity to serve the public. a lot of lawmakers view their

staff as a sacrifice to which they are entitled on the back end some sort of financial award for their public service. it's a money culture taking over politics in both parties. >> yeah, the bipartisan nature of this is probably the thing that makes me most despondent. everybody has a vested interest. you sort of outlined the skeletal operation that exists to really track lobbying activities. at one point you talk about, the only full-time employee for full time law is a paralegal. >> that was the most surprising part for me in reporting the story to find out how little enforcement there's been of this law. really the only consequence in terms of enforcement comes if you're a registered lobbyists

and you forget to file your annual statement. in that case, your form is -- and you simply never register. there's no one looking for it. the doj does not devote any resources to this. democrats made a big show in 2007 after the jack abramoff -- for creating penalties for failing to register. those laws have never been enforced. there's never been a criminal enforcement action of failing to register under the law. despite a big update, there's little enforcement. >> it's sort -- i'm not really saying this, but i'm actually saying this, it makes you yearn for the old days when lobbyists were out in public and you could track the money in a more transparent fashion.

from your perspective, you write a lot about campaign finance. what w was the old school system better in terms of governance? heritage action does more these days to gum up the works than the old-school heritage action. >> the tools at the disposal of special sbrinterests in the capl are more vast and sophisticated. these new avenues, social media, the laundering of public opinion through astroturf groups, become even more important to lobbyists. the scale of what is required to

influence policy in washington in dollar terms is so small compared to the resources at the disposal of special interests that want to do the influencing. they can spend almost any amount of money they have to get this done. >> 22,000% in returns, who is not going take that? >> we were talking about how there are people who will pay other people money about this to sit on a conference call to get what the white house thinks on this. that $20,000 is totally worth it to the company. >> the scale of investment is shocking and also it's hard -- to happen in the halls of

congress. thank you both, guys. >> thank you so much. coming up, a 30,000 person hunger strike organized through the walls of solitary confinement. ben wallace wells explains just ahead. [ male announcer ] new gain flings! smell so amazing, they're like music to your nose. ♪ your love ♪ ♪ love keeps lifting me ♪ ♪ higher and higher [ male announcer ] lift your love with new gain flings! more gain scent than ever plus oxi boost cleaning power and febreze. it's our best gain ever. ♪ higher and higher ♪ higher and higher [ male announcer ] new gain flings! plays a key role throughout our lives. one a day men's 50+ is a complete multivitamin

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it may have generated fewer headlines, but last summer saw the largest coordinated hunger strike in american history. over 30,000 prisoners in the california prison system refused to eat. the scale of the strike is z staggering. they were led in protests by rival gang members. gang members that were being held in solitary confinement. benjamin wallace wells details how a man who is a member of the aryan brotherhood formed a

two-month massive hunger protest. the u.s. is alone in advanced nations in terms of using the punishment of solitary confinement. 23 hours a day alone in a room with one short break for exercise. in 2011, this is the limit where psychological effects can occur. many inmates in our system have been sequestered for much longer. wallace wells writes in his view, he has been sentenced to a quarter century of torture.

if there is any momentum to changing solitary confinement, last summer's protest had an impact. solitary confinement remains a staple in our nation's prisons. for the first time, it is plausible that the american attachment to this special kind of imprisonment is a generational problem and the 25-year experiment may be ending. ben, i'm a huge fan of all the stuff you write. i feel this is one of the most important pieces you've written that i've read in a really long time. i highly encourage everyone to pick up a copy. i only know this because i read

your story, but 400 prisoners have been in solitary for a decade. 11 foot by 7 foot windowless cells here. what was the most surprising thing that you found? >> what contributed to the story was the scale of the protests. it's not the conditions. it's that from these conditions, from this isolation, these four men were able to coordinate a really significant action. 29,000 people starved themselves starting on the same day to protest this policy. some of those people including the hunger strike leaders lasted for 60 days, which is really pushing death. what fascinated me was the ability of these people to direct a social movement from this situation.

additionally, and this is part of the surprise, there's this really profound dispute in california from the outset of this action that colors every single element of it. the people who were striking themselves, the leaders and the activists and advocates who support them, say this is truly a human rights protest. these are people who have been pushed to the absolute limit by the conditions they've been held in decades. on the other hand, the state itself said this that is basically a gang action. california is a state in which that prison officials say that every single action that takes place, whether it is a fight or a conversation, has some kind of gang motive behind it. gangs are believed to be completely pervasive. part of the fascinating thing here is trying to entangle how

those two intertwined. the gang is a complicated organism in prison. when social avenues are made impossible, it is impossible for prisoners to connect with one another and people on the outside. the gang takes on a lot of that burden. >> let's talk more about the organization itself. when you tell people this is organized while these guys were in solitary, they don't understand how that's possible. these four gang members -- one was a leader in the aryan brotherhood -- these are opposing gangs. how did that unite?

give us a picture. >> the way that california sets up its isolation, what they call the shoe security housing, means you have eight people who are together in a pod. they are each in their own cell alone and they can't see each other, but they're faced out at the same blank wall. they can shout. they can talk to one another. inmates being creative and ingenious have devised ways of communicating through toilet drains and concrete walls that separate one exercise room from the other. these four men were part of criminal organizations that are vast and vicious and deadly. they, according to the state of california, some of them deny involvement, have spent most of their adult lives plotting to

kill one another. they were also getting older. by the time they were put together in 2006 in the same pod, these are men who are in their late 40s and early 50s. the pressures of isolation itself of being separated from their families, of feeling like they were never getting out, that all these came on them. they were wary around one another at first. they found they had quite a bit to talk about and quite a bit in common. it took them years to put this together. so this is not a casual or a slight protest. >> indeed, it is painstaking and

the level of commitment and organization. the piece upends your ideas about the kind of people in solitary and the punishment we're meting out and questioning whether it is fair. is there some sort of light at the end of this tunnel? is your suggestion that the 25-year experiment in the american criminal justice system is perhaps coming to an end? you talk about the movement at the state level. do you think it is possible we will someday see an end to locking people away for the rest of their lives? it is hard to get out of solitary once you're put in there. >> yes. we'll see a radical curtailing at least. a federal judge should radically reduce the terms under which people are in solitary for and

how long they're there for. when we had a violent crime epidemic in the 80s and early 90s, prison systems were really putting their fingers in the dike. they were just trying to figure out some way to keep criminal organizations that were housed in prisons from reaching out into the streets. in california, this experiment reached its apex with pelican bay where you had these men who had been in solitary for this long, they're all convicted murders, but they weren't put there because of that. they were put there because they're validated gang members. under those circumstances, they can put them there indefinitely. as that wave has receded,

there's a lot more room for people to make human rights arguments. >> it's a story everyone should read. the article is in the latest edition of "new york magazine." what's the most livable state in america? the answer comes with an ast asterices. ♪

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fifteen percent or more on car insurance. it's good living in the midwest and not so good living in the south. that seems to be the conclusion of the gallop well-being survey. it concluded the top five states

for well-being are montana, minnesota, nebraska, and north dakota. gallop should probably include a bismarck sized asterisk because there's only one clinic that provides abortions in the entire state, which is not great news for north dakota. the state's booming economy is largely driven by the highly controversial process of fracking. a process that's made it possible for some residents in the state to set their tap water on fire. wh arkansas, ohio, alabama, mississippi, kentucky, and number one, west virginia, those are the states where there is

least well-being. it is ranking the west virginiians who lived for weeks without water would agree with. good evening, americans, and welcome to "the ed show" live from new york. let's get to work. >> documents unsealed wednesday reveal just how closely walker and officials blurred their campaign. >> this is old news. this is something that's passed. this is old news. they're digging up stuff prosecufrom the past. >> it's big news in local papers in wisconsin. >> the big smoking gun is that walker is clearly at the center