that the stadium is for the pleasure of the audience. it's a work site for them. and they should be responsible on their job like their fans are on their own. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. attack on hillary. let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this. we'll get to the bad politics in ukraine much later in the show. but let me start with the bad politics here in this country. did you notice, and this is certainly a nasty fact that the same hawks who want a street fight, some exchange of trash talk with russian president putin who aren't afraid at all to get in the old cold war

raging again also can't quit that nasty little side war they're fighting with hillary clinton. there they go again, blasting secretary clinton over benghazi again this weekend. benghazi. it's how they say remember the alamo. it's their way of yelling "or the rah, tora, tora. i watched susan rice when she appeared on "meet the press" in september of 2012. i watched her yesterday when she did it again. and unlike the hawks pushing for trouble abroad or division at home, i also read the bipartisan report of the senate intelligence committee saying that what rice said in 2012 about benghazi carried the hard, difficult core of truth, that the raid which killed our ambassador resulted from the attack that day in cairo which resulted from the crazy anti-islamist video produced by some crazed right-winger out in california. so why did john mccain and

darrell issa and the rest keep yelling benghazi? why didn't they say how much they respect hillary clinton especially her work as secretary of state and continue to accuse her as cover-up? does issa truly believe that hillary clinton ordered american troops to stand down? why would she do that to a friend? steven was her friend? why would she deliberately let him die? what are you saying, mr. issa? what are you getting at, mr. mccain? do you or do you not accept it was the intelligence community that called the benghazi work of extremists, that it was extremists itself that struck the word al qaeda from the description of the attack? which brings to me the partisan question. is this all the republicans have? is their silver bullet to keep hillary clinton from the white house? is it a dishonest, over the top festering over benghazi? alex wagner is the host of now weekdays 4:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc and she is joining us

right now. david corn is east "washington post" for mother jones. david, it's relentless. it's continuing through this hour. we're getting it all day because of what happened yesterday on "meet the press." i looked at susan rice. i don't know why she apologized at all. she said she was right. but in some ways she said she wasn't completely right, on all the essential points. why there was a benghazi attack. copycat from kiaer role. why probably was there an attack on cairo? because of this crazy anti-islamist video that went viral. why don't they say damn it, we were right the first time and keep moving on? >> i think for the republicans and john mccain, this has become almost a theological issue. >> it's religion? >> it doesn't make sense if you sit down and go over the facts as you just did. they will not change their position. they came out and really crucified susan rice for no good reason. she was talking about intelligence talking points put together. >> she is running for everything. when she was up for secretary of

state, mccain and lindsey graham came out. they call her not qualified and incompetent. she was disconnected from reality. it was an attack on a woman who spent years on public service, a public service that john mccain says he was proud of. john mccain's slogan, country first. no, it's not country first. it's politics first. maybe it's even get hillary first over everything else. >> national security adviser susan rice was back on "meet the press" this weekend. and she told david gregory she has no regrets what she said nearly 18 months ago in the aftermath of that benghazi attack. let's watch her. >> what i said to you that morning and what i did in every day since was to share the best information that we had at the time. the information i provided, which i explained to you was what we had at the moment. it could change. i commented that this was based on what we knew on that morning, was provided to me and my colleagues, and indeed to congress by the intelligence community.

and that's been well validated in many different ways since. and that information turned out in some respects not to be 100% correct. but the notion that somehow i or anybody else in the administration mislead the american people is patently false. and i think that that's been amply demonstrated. >> what she meant by not 100% correct is when she first testified, you'll hear, she said there was a demonstration that turned into an attack. all that was a result, by the bipartisan senate intelligence committee of going back to a copycat behavior by the crowds and the bad people who did this horrible thing of killing our ambassador and his colleagues, but all that resulted from this crazy fervor of watching television and seeing what happened in cairo that same day, the same kind of assault, and that itself was caused by this going viral of this crazy anti-islamist tape. here is what susan rice said five days after benghazi attacks in september 16, 2012. let's watch.

>> putting together the best information that we have available to us today, our current assessment is that what happened in benghazi was in fact initially a spontaneous reaction to what had just transpired hours before in cairo. almost a copycat of the demonstrations against our facility in cairo, which were prompted of course by the video. what we think then transpired in benghazi is that opportunistic extremist elements came to the consulate as this was unfolding. >> well, those comments sparked right wing charges of a cover-up. the only problem is we now know the substance of what susan rice said right there was largely accurate. it was copycat based originally on the movie. anyway, start with her centralist assertion, the attack is believed to have been a reaction to unfolding events initially set off by the anti-islamic video produced out in california, which is pretty much confirmed last week by a bipartisan senate report, as i

said. that bipartisan committee found, quote, intelligence suggested the attack was not a highly coordinated plot, but was opportunistic. some intelligence suggests the attacks were likely put together in short order following that day's violent protests in cairo against the inflammatory video. she is right on her mark there in her early testimony in 2012. an exhaustive "new york times" report also found that, quote, contrary to claims by some members of congress, it was fuelled in large part by anger at an american-made video denigrating islam. well, the right wing also attacked susan rice for using the word extremist instead of terrorists. but that word choice came directly from the intelligence community's talking points. we know that now. and they also attacked the administration for removing the words "al qaeda" from the talking point. that was removed by the cia. he is the one who said don't say al qaeda. the reference was removed to protect intelligence sources and methods. alex, this seems to be not just

a tempest in a teapot, but an attempt to destroy the reputations of susan rice and to get at the person she was speaking for that day, the secretary of state hillary clinton. who people like john mccain always like to say how chummy they are with her. but here they are accusing her of a cover-up. and worse that she led to a stand-down in the military, let her friend get killed. your thoughts. >> i agree with you, chris. i think this has hurt susan rice in so far as it cost her the secretary of state position. one could argue she still has a highly influential position in the white house. but she paid a price for this. but that apparently is not enough pain to extract from this administration if you are a republican. i find the most disconcerting part of this, you just laid out all the actual facts behind this attack in benghazi. you talked about a very comprehensive reported piece by david kirkpatrick in "the new york times" which should settle any lingering doubts a senate committee finding. what we're dealing with is a group of conservatives in a

republican party for whom facts are fungible. and they will take any bit of data and spin it any way they want, whether it's economic data from the congressional budget office, whether that is a bipartisan senate committee finding or declassified intelligence from the intelligence agencies themselves there is no agreed upon access anymore. and that makes everything from deciding on economic policy to climate change to national security incredibly difficult. >> well, here is the hard part for me. i always have a mixed view of john mccain for what he has done for our country, his service to our country is unassailable. but here he is, not surprisingly, john mccain has jumped in. he is not surprised with what rice said yesterday on meet the press. look at the passion behind this guy. here he is, going after him. >> i'm almost speechless, because it's patently obvious, first of all, that susan rice had no reason to be on the program. she had no involvement on it. second of all, she read talking points that we are now beginning to believe came from the white

house, which were absolutely false. for susan rice to say such a thing, it's a little embarrassing, to tell you the truth. >> well, i think it's embarrassing for senator mccain not to do his homework. he should know the facts are. in rice was right and everybody was right here on the main points. anyway, meanwhile, this morning republican strategists, the guy who called ohio the wrong way, karl rove also took ash with ambassador rice. no surprise. paid to do it. let's watch rove in action there. >> are two things wrong with this. one is the arrogance of the moment and the continuing stubbornness of this cover-up. the attack happens on a wednesday night. by thursday morning, the libyan president is telling america this is a terrorist incident. by sunday morning, susan rice is picked out -- i feel sorry for her in a way. she was a patsy. the american people deserve to have an answer. who concocted the scheme? who briefed susan rice? >> well, we know all the answer. the answer was the cia told her what to say.

general david petraeus, who is beloved on the right and maybe he should be, but is beloved on the right said don't say al qaeda, don't say terrorist, say extremists. and by the way, this is happen had. it started in california. it worked its way through cairo and ended up in benghazi. all the facts on the table. asserted to by bipartisan sources. not just "the new york times," as you mentioned, alex, but the senate bipartisan committee. it's all in, and they keep acting like they do on evolution, like they do on climate change. they play these games of well, we don't know. >> the facts are still questions there are still questions. listen, the guy who served president wmd should have no question -- >> the architect. >> about the accuracy of the information presented, because when it comes to what susan rice said, it was far closer to the mark than anything they said about iraq before the war. and senator mccain, he really needs to sit down and read the e-mails that came out last spring that you and i poured over, that everyone else has poured over before he starts

saying the white house is behind these talking points. these are not fax. >> i want to get to the religion. alex, do some anthropology for me here. why is it so vital to the people, not just hard right, but mccain and to the right. so center right, far right. why -- and darrell issa is a complete opportunist. why is this so vital to them? is this all they got on hillary down the road is to say benghazi, benghazi, benghazi? is it all to claim that these people didn't just make a mistake, they're traitors, they're evil. they kill their friends. it's like the ultimate evil. your thoughts. why are they hanging on this thing. >> i think rove's motivation is different than mccain's. mccain is intent on lodging a broader inverdictive against this administration on foreign policy. he sees them as inept and sees himself as sort of the last lion in the senate that can speak intelligently in his mind towards war, foreign policy, international engagement. and i think he is incredibly frustrated by the fact he is not pulling the levers on foreign

policy and national security. >> do you think he thinks he should be president? >> absolutely. thing is residual the ghost of mccain's future. and on rove's's count, if you notice the vocabulary he is using, he talks about arrogance and stubbornness of this administration that is part of a broader concerted republican effort to say that this president is overreaching, to say that he doesn't listen to anybody. i mean, this is a very much campaign that has been waged during the second part of the obama administration. and even parts of the first. and will last, by the way, i think for years to come, because as you point out, chris, this is the only thing -- this and obamacare is basically all they have for 2016. >> thank you so much. thanks for coming on, alex wagner, who is on every day at 4:00, and david corn, who is often on here, to our advantage. coming up, making room in the far right clown car. the latest candidate, milton wolf, running for the u.s. senate in kansas. he has posted gruesome pictures of gunshot fatalities and tacked

on a few jokes for kicks. what is the one issue that could really work for democrats in this tough midterm year? the minimum wage. even most republicans support increasing it, just not the elected ones in congress. senator sherrod brown joins us. and speaking of politics making strange bedfellows, what got new york's new mayor together with al roker this morning? here is a hint. it has to do with something that is has buried a lot of u.s. mayors. and chicken kiev. the u.s.'s policy to always push for intervention. this is "hardball," the place for politics. and relieve your other allergy symptoms... so you can breathe easier all day. zyrtec-d®. find it at the pharmacy counter. zyrtec-d®. hey there, i just got my bill, and i see that it includes my fico® credit score. yup, you get it free each month to help you avoid surprises with your credit. good. i hate surprises. surprise! at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. get the it card and see your fico® credit score.

when you look at who is mia at the republican governors association today, why, it's the head of the organization, governor chris christie. the chairman of the rga wasn't with his fellow republican governors for a big show-and-tell today in washington. there you see louisiana governor bobby jindal, along with south carolina's nikki haley, texas governor rick perry, and bill haslem of tennessee.

but chairman christie still plagued with his scandal at home was stuck in trenton. by the way, a new monument university poll shows christie's approval rating among new jersey voters is slipping. it's down to 50%. his approval is down 9 points from last month, 15 points from december. we'll be right back after this. up late. thinking up game-changing ideas, like this: dozens of tax free zones across new york state. move here. expand here. or start a new business here... and pay no taxes for 10 years. with new jobs, new opportunities and a new tax free plan. there's only one way for your business to go. up. find out if your business can qualify at start-upny.com

welcome back to "hardball." we come now to the latest tea party republican to hijack the far right's clown car. and this one is a bit disturbing. the latest clown car is dr. milton wolf, the kansas-bred tea party who is challenging pat robertson in the primary. the topeka capital journal newspaper broke a story this weekend that wolf had used social media, facebook, to post and comment on some gruesome images of gunshot victims, of all things. this wasn't ancient history, either. this happened in 2010. the reporter who broke the story said that wolf, quote, relentlessly poked fun at the dead or wounded.

here is more from the report. wolf wrote that an x-ray of a man decapitated by gunfire resembled a wounded alien in a terminator film. the gunshot victim, wolf joked online, wasn't going to complain about the awkward positioning of his head for an x-ray. what kind of glun blows somebody's head completely off? i've got to get one of those, he said. i got to get one of those guns. wolf was defiant when he was confronted with those comments by the topeka capitol journal state house reporter tim carpenter, who reported their exchange. here it is. >> it seems like it's for humorous purposes. do you think that's professional? >> to educate people about what happens, you know, is that not educational? >> well, one of my old-time favorites pretty active gun and knife. what kind of gun blows off someone's head entirely? i've got get one of those.

what professional medical education piece is that? >> so, you know what? i'll tell you something. and i'll tell you the burden that you carry when you're a doctor. it's an honor in a whole host of ways, and it's a burden in a whole host of ways. but this is not, this is not about trying to violate anybody's rights or privacy. >> the posts are intended -- it's a joke. when you read the post, this is a joke. >>, no it isn't. you know what? it is no joke about taking care of patients. >> sir, please. address why you posted the image of a guy's head blown apart. i'm asking you professionally, is this material professional? >> this is the kind of material you see in medical education book all the time. >> this is facebook. >> these are real consequences. >> are you still posting images like this on the internet? >> i'm not going to play these kind of got you games with you. >> wow.

jonathan capehart, the opinion writer for "the washington post," of course, and a msnbc contributor. gentlemen, you were chuckling when that thing is running because it's so god awful. this guy is a medical doctor, a radiologist. and his idea of sport is to pass out pictures of people with their heads blown off and talk about how he would like to get a gun like that. and talking like that regularly. and by the way, that reporter who is sharp as tack said are you still doing this? an answer to which he didn't respond. >> right. he didn't respond. he is posting he's photos because he wants to educate people. the burden that you carry as a doctor, never talking about the fact that he posted these pictures on facebook. it's not like someone hacked into his computer or broke into his office and took the files out of a file cabinet. he willingly put -- >> so he is weiner using other people's bodies. >> yes, if you want to put it that way. >> what else do you do with this character? >> but then he joked around about the victims whose x-rays he posted. >> what do you make of the guy?

>> he has no judgment. >> michael, you have to assume anybody who wants to be a doctor wants to do it for some reason. they have basic empathy? >> i guess so. but, you know, he made a decision to become a doctor a long time ago. so he is on to other pastures now. it's a very weird thing that we see a lot in these tea party candidates. these things come up from their past, these statements, these things they did, these things they were associated with, because they don't have any vetting. they didn't go through a party process. >> let me go through some memory lane here. sharron angle, who basically said something about hispanics. pretty rough stuff. and second amendment rights. if you don't like your politician, get your gun. and then i poor christine. i do feel for her. i'm not a witch. and then akin. these are the two rape buddies. i don't know which one is the rape guy and not the rape guy there is aikin and mourdock. you still want to win once in a while. where do you get the new guys?

milton wolf is going to be a problem for the republicans. i know the campaign committee who has to back whoever wins the primary is trashing this guy already. >> but notice all the people you mention, they got the -- they got the nomination. they -- >> except for christine o'donnell. >> no, no, she did. she just didn't win. she lost because, you know, the establishment of the republican party knew if she got the nomination, we we're screwed. but they appealed -- >> worse, she could have gotten in the senate. >> but these people appeal to a base -- the base of the republican party that hates the president, that wants someone to go to washington who has never been here, doesn't know anything about governing, because they're viewed as pure. >> right. >> horribly pure in this case. >> but even in high school when somebody ran for college, student council, somebody would always say a bunch of guys got together and said i should run. they pretended there were people around. this guy doesn't even pretend there is anybody around there. why is the right wing backing

mr. -- sorry, dr. wolf? at first glance, it might be hard to tell. wolf is a licensed radiologist. he has never held office before. he is a distant cousin of president obama. they have the same great, great grandfather, but wolf is a firebrand when it comes to the right wing's obsession with obama hatred. he has compared president obama to hitler, mussolini and stalin in a strange way. here is the quote from wolf's twitter account. quote, scapegoats of history, hitler, jews and gypsies. bolsheviks, i waited for the bunch line. >> the point is the only qualifications these people need to have to pass tea party muster and get the support of right wing groups is they hate obama, they hate government. i guess they love freedom in the way they define freedom. that's all. it doesn't matter what their experience. it doesn't matter what their

past affiliations are, and so on and so forth. the only qualification is ideology. >> so this guy -- i guess that's what elections are about. he goes to washington. he meets the place. he looks around, he hasn't been there before, and it's fine. mr. smith goes to washington with the perfect intention of not knowing anybody, meeting anybody, negotiating with anybody, writing any real legislation that is going anywhere and collecting 170 a year and spending a lot of staff money on people who write your right-wing speeches for you. >> and having great health care. the other thing -- >> i forgot the free plane ride every weekend to go back to where you're supposed to be representing. >> he comes to washington to do absolutely nothing on purpose. the folks who would elect him are people who want someone to come to washington to blow the place up, to stop it from doing anything that it's obligated to. >> milton wolf. watch this guy. don't vote for this guy necessarily into a war between the far right and the mainstream right. when the news broke, the more

mainstream, that's the nrsc, the national republican senatorial committee attacked wolf saying, once again, it is clear that there are a few select groups and organizations like the senate conservatives fund that fail to properly research candidates or do the necessary work prior to endorsing them which maximizes risk and hurts the conservative cause. other tea party republicans fired back. quote, the nrsc can't compete on the issues so they have to attack the character of conservatives. mike? >> yeah, and that's the defense. >> not a bad target? >> no, it's not. >> the defense is going to be the usual defense. the more our guy is attacked by the mainstream conservatives and the more attacked by us and msnbc, to be frank, the better he is. the more we're for him. now, i look for polls today. i haven't seen a poll there he announced in october that's the only poll i saw. so i haven't seen any. he may be 40 points behind. but he's got until august and

he's gotten this rage grievance politics to work. >> well, have i reaction to him. anyone that goes to this guy professionally or politically is out to lunch. i'm jonathan capehart, a, michael thomasski, thanks. bill de blasio and al roker make up after a feud. this is "hardball," the place for politics. there's this kid.

coach calls her a team player. she's kind of special. she makes the whole team better. he's the kind of player that puts the puck, horsehide, bullet. right where it needs to be. coach calls it logistics. he's a great passer. dependable. a winning team has to have one. somebody you can count on. somebody like my dad. this is my dad. somebody like my mom. my grandfather. i'm very pround of him. her. them. afghanistan, in 2009. orbiting the moon in 1971.

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>> he is great. time for the sideshow that was hbo's bill maher this friday on the turmoil in ukraine. today the now vacant home of ousted president viktor yanukovych has become a tour for protesters who have been touring the home open to the public over the weekend. next up, dennis rodman's trip to north korea last month may have drawn ill-fated condemnation, but it also seems to have inspired some producers out in hollywood. according to the hollywood reporter, believe this or not, 20th century fox is currently developing a feature film, that's at the movie theater, based on rodman's relationship with dictator kim jong un. and surprise, surprise, it's going to be a comedy. of course, rodman's real life drama is no laughing matter these days. he did a stint in rehab following his return from pyongyang and is currently under vex for the gifts he brought for kim jong un's birthday, which

may have violated sanctions and u.s. law. give me a break. speaking of diplomacy, new york mayor bill de blasio made up with al roker today on the "today" show, burying the hatch after a very public twitter feud. roker, who was critical of the city keeping schools open during a snowstorm. he was quick to smooth things over in person and de blasio came hat in hand, literally, hat in hand. take a look. >> we'll get this out of the way. we had a little chat about school closings and snow. and we both want the best for the school kids. >> that's right. that's right. >> and our city. >> i want you to know we have a little snow coming up the next few days. >> oh, you've been peeks. >> so i would like you to join us. this is the sanitation department official hat. and if you would like to come out and join us for snow clearance, this could be a new part of your career. >> my dad was a bus driver. new york's strongest. >> they've had everything to deal with this winter, but

they've done an amazing job. next stop, democrats are hoping to raise the minimum wage and make it a big issue that carries them to victory this coming november. sherrod brown, the guy i think should be hillary's running mate if she runs is coming right here to join us on "hardball." you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. and the lig. it's our job to make sure that it does. using natural gas this power plant can produce enough energy for about 600,000 homes. generating electricity that's cleaner and reliable, with fewer emissions-- it matters. ♪

i'm milissa rehberger. here is what is happening. another day of violence in ukraine left several people dead and hundreds injured. oregon series it won't defend the state's same-sex marriage ban because it would not withstand a federal constitutional challenge. and two apparent tornadoes were spotted earlier in illinois. a tornado watch is in effect for central portion of the state as the storm system moves through. back to "hardball."

welcome back to "hardball." 2014 is likely to be a very tough year for democrats. but one arrow they have in their quiver is minimum wage. democrats want to raise it. conservatives don't. and the country is with the democrats on this big one. president obama has taken the lead in the push to raise minimum wage nationally to $10.10 with his executive action, making that the mandatory minimum pay for government contractors, the new contracts. and he is pressuring congress to follow his lead. here he is. >> right now there is a bill before congress that would boost america's minimum wage to $10.10. it's easy to remember. 10-10. that bill would lift wages for more than 16 million americans without requiring a single dollar in new taxes or spending. but even though a majority of democrats, independents, and republicans across the country support raising the minimum

wage, republicans in congress don't want to give it a vote. hard-working americans deserve better than no. >> democrats hope that this populist and very popular proposal for a higher minimum wage will win over enough working class white voters to give them a fighting chance in some very tough senate and house races this november. sherrod brown from ohio. ryan grim is from "the washington post." i think she could use your grit. i think you're a working kind of guy. >> i'm really happy where i am, but think thank you, chris. >> i know. i love to shine you up and then ask the tough questions. are you guys working to get a bill passed and signed by the president? do you want it to pass by november or have it be talked about out there in november? which way? >> i don't think it's a and-or. i think it's a question of one or the other. the more the public sentiment builds on this, the more likely we are to pass it. today the republicans are dug.

in i think in the end it really is whose side are you on. when you start saying some of the members of congress are willing to vote for pay increases for themselves but not vote for a minimum wage where buying power and the minimum wage today is one-third less than it was 45 years ago? i think that carries the day in terms of pushing them to do the right thing. and it's good politically. so it really is both, chris. >> you have 55. you have 55 democrats out of 100. all you need is five to break a filibuster. do you think a republican would filibuster a minimum wage issue which is so popular? in other words, why don't you get this thing on the floor? your leader can put it on the floor. harry reid can put it on the floor. why don't you vote on it? >> i think we. >> when? >> i think we will pretty soon. i think in the next month. we want to try unemployment insurance again, because that's our first duty i think to help those workers that lost their insurance, lost their unemployment insurance back in january, lost their benefits. help them, try that again. we were one vote away the last

time, and then moved to minimum wage. again, the voters are going to see who is on their side. and you know, chris. nobody knows politics better than you do in the last couple decades. it's whose side are you on? and democrats are clearly on the public's side on these issues. >> well, here is the question. you look good in the senate. i think you can do it there. and the question is in the house where you need 218. you have 200 democrats. even if you get 90% of them you need 28 more votes on the republican side. and the happy hunting ground, to use a native american term is go after the guys and the women who voted for the clean debt ceiling. in other words, they're vulnerable republicans who don't want to be right wingers there are enough republicans potentially that you can get to 218. how do you see it? >> i think that's right. i think fundamentally, john boehner from my state gets up every morning. he's got to decide is he speaker of the tea party or speaker of the united states house of representatives. when he chooses the latter, he tends to do the right thing and things pass. because you'll get almost every single democrat on the minimum wage.

i know if you put it on the floor, you're going to get a significant number of republicans to get well in excess of 218. you've got to have the pressure on his caucus. and that's what a senate vote would do in what shows like this do, frankly, to put pressure on republicans to do the right thing here. >> last question. can you win the moderate republican there are still left, the peter kings, the pat me hans, can you get them to vote for this if you walk in the door with that petition? i know you're a senator, but when some democrat walks in the door, steny hoyer, somebody, mrs. pelosi, walks in that door, puts that thing on his desk. if you don't sign this discharge petition, you're an enemy of labor, and that hurts you. it hurtious at home. will that work? >> well, it certainly would vote for it if it were on the floor. i don't know about those individuals. but most of them would. they go against their -- a lot of the party leadership there puts a lot of pressure on these guys not to sign those, but i think you continue to push. and eventually they go to boehner and say hey, john, i'm

getting killed at home on this. you got to give me a pass. we got to put this on the floor and get to it the president. >> this is like card check, senator. card check. go around, republican by republican. >> that's fine with me. you bet. >> get them at home. get them in their office. ask them when their wives are there. >> the problem is they have to walk down on the floor to sign it, i believe. and all these other republicans are watching. but more power to us in doing that to what you're doing, to what we're all trying to do with this. >> mr. vice president, it's an honor to have you on the show. and i hope you and secretary clinton win that election. thank you. i'm just kidding, but i'm not. i really think you're the perfect running mate. thank you, senator sherrod brown of ohio which wisconsin is always a key state to watch. let me go to ryan grim now. they're very happy fighting for this. this is an issue democrats are not embared by. not like chained cpi or something like that. they want to run on this. can they get the votes? they have 55 democratic senators. why not pass it? >> i think they're going to pass it. >> you think they'll pass. >> i think you'll see it on the floor in late march or early

april, and i think they'll get enough republicans that will push it over 60. they'll have $10.10 an hour, plus throw some small business tax cut to sweeten the pot. i think it will pass. but the problem is in the house. >> what about the pressure once the public sees that it's passed the senate and the people's house shouldering it up? >> well, we'll see about that. but the fact as you said that they're going forward with this discharge petition kind of indicates that they're treating it more like an issue than a bill. i think it will be more an issue. >> yeah, but that was my idea. so i can't knock it. i'm not sure i caused them to do it. but i did think discharge. the beauty of discharge is you circulate a petition and try to get a majority which is 218 members of the house. you walk it right up to the republican moderate and say are you going to hold this thing up? >> you know, republicans are strong enough on this issue that they can hold together if it's painted in a partisan kind of way. and that's what they're doing. they're making this a partisan issue, an election issue. if they wanted to get this done this year, they would probably do some compromise like $9 an

hour and a bunch of business tax goodeers and maybe you get it done. >> this is a way if you're a democrat to get working people who are unions and people who have family members in unions and people who like unions and care about working people to vote democrat rather than to vote on the social issues that they tenth tend do to go over or national policy get a little tougher, they get a little more republican, reagan democrat. this is way to bring the reagan democrats home. >> that's what they're thinking. they realize they need to control the house. this is something they won't really find. >> if i were pelosi, i'd be all over this issue from now until november. thank you. >> and they will be. >> i know stenny is already there. thank you, ryan grim from "the washington post." the ousted president is on the round. big question for us. how does america avoid getting dragged into another cold war situation with the russians? i don't want to get into a fight over something we can't help. anyway, this is "hardball," the place for politics. unway ridiculousness... from fashion that flies off the shelves.

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androgel 1.62%. we're back. the battle over the future of ukraine is underscored the growing friction between the united states and russia. of course, the events of recent weeks, including the fleeing of ukraine's president has raised the spector of something few want to see, a revival of cold war-like tensions. today the russian foreign ministry accused the united states, that would be us, or the west of a power grab. according to "the washington post," the ministry charged, quote, a course has been set to use dictatorial and sometimes terrorist methods. it accuse unspecified western partners of being driven not by

the concern for the fate of ukraine, but by a unilateral geopolitical calculations. yesterday urging with russian p vladimir putin. let's watch him. >> what does putin do here? i think the message has to be sent to him to let the ukrainian people determine their own future and a partition of ukraine is totally unacceptable. >> i believe the president needs to up his game and send a clear unequivocal public message to putin not to interfere in what is happening in ukraine, to let the ukrainian people determine their future, to ensure that there is in interference in their sovereignty, and i think this is an important time for him do that. >> i do think putin thinks he's playing chess, a rougher game than chess and we have to be able to match it. >> the usual talk. it's easy to talk tough. the neocon talk. russia has deep political and economic ties it ukraine and some diplomatic finesse will be required by both sides to avoid

an escalating conflict here. both sides. michael crowe, deputy bureau chief for "time" and simon marks with feature story news. simon, i want you to talk about this a little bit. to me the smart american leadership is to speak for our values, democracy, constitutional law, sovereignty. all the good things. don't get involved in some zero-sum game with the head of the russian president, the russian president putin over what gets to own ukraine. do we get it in the west or do they get it? i think a fight like that is a fight and it's a dangerous one. your thoughts? >> it's definitely a dangerous fight, chris, and may be an unavoidable fight not just because of the situation the obama administration or putin administration take but because of the position in which the ukrainian people find themselves. you know, if you travel to a city like donyetsk in eastern ukraine, it's in the coal mining region. you're almost transported back in time. it's like going to part of the old soviet era in russia.

if you travel to rush ukraine to a city like leviv, you could be walking in paris. this is a country that is split down the middle between people who want to go toward the west and embrace the western-style values and those who hue to the east and tough not to get caught in the middle of that. >> it's interesting because czechoslovakia is split in half since the cold war. is that what we're looking at here? is it in our interest one way or another? >> we generally want stability. something people underestimate is it's not in putin's interest. he does not support separatist movements. there are lots of people who would like to split away from other parts of russia. think about what's been happening in chechnya. that was a separatist movement. there's been talk maybe he would encourage the eastern half of ukraine to split off. i don't think that's the case. there's definitely a big division in this country. important thing to remember, though, this country needs other people because it's a financial basket case and they need money. the question is, who's going to have a more appealing deal for them? >> who can unite the country

right now, could it be the head of the parliament who's now taking over as interim president? who can do it? >> look, it's very difficult to see that any of the players can do it unless there's a real sea change in the situation on the ground in kiev. what you don't want to see is the new guys coming in putting the old guys in jail. that has been a cyclical situation that's been going on in ukraine for years now. former prime minister temeshenko was released from jail after spending years there. >> it's so third world. the minute you get in, you arrest guy who just lost the election. that's one way not to have election -- or they dump them then put them in prison. you're right, she gets out, they put yanukovych in and keep the resolving door prison and presidency here. >> i read today how protest leaders were heckling people going to the parliament today pulling up in their bmws and

their luxury cars. these people who have been feeding at the trough essentially stealing part of the corruption in this country. >> temeshenko is loaded and the dentist son of yanukovych is loaded. they're all billionaires. >> he was on the "forbes list." this country has been plundered since it became independent. >> it takes so long to create a working democracy, democratic culture in a country. i ukraine, the communists, czars, all that hell and the oligarchs now. they have nothing good in their past to look to, do they? >> also remember in their past they do have the crimian war which russia lost defendtively. that was, of course, is the war that suck britain, france, the ottoman empire into that strategic -- it gave us the light brigade in florence nightingale. whether a price worth paying, that's a debate. >> thank you, simon marks. thank you, michael crowley. we'll be right back after this.

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let me finish tonight with this. chicken kiev. every time something happens bad in the world some armchair general starts blaring america doesn't have the guts to get in there and make things go our way. it's always about manliness or the lack of it. how we shouldn't be ashamed to use our strength or the need for a muscular foreign policy. all this mocho talk is the predictable neocon attempt to

intimidate us into doing what the hawks want us to do which always leads to being stuck in yet another geopolitical trap. how many times do you hear, we have to keep all the options on the table? translation, we need to be in a war footing all the time, whatever the issue, whatever the country. you hear it when china, when a plane gets shot down over there. on iraq, on libya, on syria, on iran. and now in some vague way on ukraine. we actually need to do is speak out for our values, free elections, rule of law, respect for national sovereignty and self-determination. these are our values. we have other values, too, like the need for peoples to find ways to get along with each other. especially those countries on our border. russia, ukraine, need to accommodate each other, at least not provoke each other. why? killing people shouldn't be the optional way to settle political disputes and this is very much a political dispute. this question of what kind of trade deal ukraine strikes with either the european union or russian-backed eurasian market.

we should speak to the values involved here, not the regional politics. that's for the two countries to resolve. don't you think? and that's "hardball" for now. thanksing thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. the ceo in charge of the largest public oil company on the planet is all about fracking in america. except when it's in his own back yard. who could blame him? the business of ex-tra trackext fossil yules and transporting them is a dirty one. here's what it looks like along the mississippi. boats stranded after a barge collision yesterday sent over 31,000 gallons of light crude oil into the water forcing officials to close a 65-mile stretch of our nation's greatest river including the port of new orleans. the fact is these days you don't have to be adjacent to a major waterway or mire