they sap resources from the agency so it can't investigate the big fish. marcus owens who directed the irs's exempt organization from 1990 to 2000 told the times the clear impact from the negotiations has been to throw a proverbial wooden shoe into the machinery causing it to grind to a halt. if conservatives can run out the clock, the irs investigation of these groups will exceed the statute of limitations. while minor characters pay the price, the big players will in all probability skate. rove and the cokes are unlikely to see their tax exempt political reined in or the financial clout of their 501 c independent expenditure groups. there, america, is your scandal. that's all for now. see you back here tomorrow. the ed show it up next. good evening americans and welcome to the ed show live from new york. let's get to work.

will business owners be allowed to deny services based on their religious beliefs. >> a controversial measure. >> i don't have to make a decision until next friday. i've got plenty of time. >> there's no discrimination against no one. in the contrary of straight news against discrimination. >> i thought i had seen every crazy thing in the world that could happen in the state legislature. but this really beats them all. >> it opens the door for discrimination in a huge, broad spectrum. >> i've got plenty of time. >> if i go against religious beliefs, what about me is going to tell you that? >> the outcry against the bill has nothing to do with the actual merits of the bill. >> three senators have flipped their vote. >> i've got plenty of time. >> mounting pressure from john mccain to concern from super bowl organizers. >> i don't buy the argument on the economic impact. i believe, again, this is about protecting people of all faith. >> i've got plenty of time.

>> veto, veto. >> good too have you with us tonight, folks. thanks for watching. watching the situation unfold in arizona, it brings you to the conclusion that sometimes in america we just don't know how to differentiate between right and wrong even when it comes to human decency. thts most discriminatory law that we have seen a state body come forward with. in jan brewer, the governor, is having a hard time making a decision on what to do? really? the governor of arizona is right in the center of the hottest debate in america. it's a debate because they don't know what human decency is all about. it's up to the woman who pointed the finger right in the face arrogantly. now we're finding out how air gat she really is. we thought she was arrogant then, but we weren't sure. we thought she might have been passionate. no, she's arrogant.

what's the hold-up, governor? you mean to tell me you don't know what discrimination is about? well, she's not sure whether she's going to veto the arizona senate bill 1062. you know, today brewer had to hold a series of private meetings with opponents and proponents of the legislation. gosh, i don't see anybody stepping out saying they're really for it now. now that the scab has been ripped off this thing. she faces a saturday deadline because she doesn't have the guts to make the decision right now in this hour. she's either going to sign it or give it a stamp of approval. what infuriates me, gets my blood boiling about in is that we shouldn't even be at this point in this country. we should be beyond all of this kind of stuff. the bottom line is, senate bill 1062 is a license to discrimina discriminate. there's actually some people in arizona are proud that it's on

the table. the efforts could be far-reaching. the effects will definitely be far-reaching and i say efforts, because you see there's other states that are thinking about doing the same stuff. senate bill 1062 allows businesses to use religion as an excuse to legally refuse service to anybody. gosh, now that's a pretty broad-brush, you know. no matter what brewer decides, it hasn't been fast enough. at the center of the storm is this person right here. you know what, there's just a damn good political operative in every state in america, isn't there? here's a good one for the conservatives, here name is kathy her rod. she's the president of the center for arizona policy. she's the architect of 1062. kathy herrod is not an elected official but wields power. she may be more powerful than the governor herself in arizona. >> in 2011, we reached a pinnacle for us that the arizona legislature over the last 15

years has passed 101 bills supported by center for arizona policy. those bills run the gamut of life, marriage and family and re religious liberty, we're blessed we've reached 100 bills and looking forward to the next 100. >> they're very blessed. there are hundreds of people like kathy herrod who work in the background to get this going, crafting legislation and then they push their own agendas. where are they really coming from? republicans in arizona are basically doing her bidding. take state treasurer doug doocy for instance. kathy herrod works as a campaign adviser for him. in the past, he's touted his relationship with herro d. he's next in line to be the republican gubernatorial candidate for arizona. now, this is the kind of company that this guy keeps. senate bill 1062 is expected to play a role in the governor's race coming up. i hope so. so doocy was eventually really

pressed to release a press statement regarding this bill. doocy claims if i was governor, i'd veto the bill right now. i'd veto it. he says this. forging consensus on acceptable language protecting religious liberty. that's a little vague, isn't it? basically, he's looking to distance himself from the bill. he has yet to distance himself from herrod. she's not backing down on the other hand. in response to the backlash, she's painting herself as a victim in all of this. >> i just hope that listeners and people around the country will see this for what it is, hostility towards religion. our ability to live out our religious beliefs as founders intended, our right to live out our religious beliefs. that's what's bringing us under attack. >> it's the religious right on

the tack. >> herrod found herself up against her own party. three gop senators who voted in favor of senate bill 1062, including the co-sponsor, bob worsely. they've changed their mine. state senator steve wooers said something interesting. he said we were uncomfortable with it to start with and went along with it because we thought it was good for the caucus. we didn't want to vote for it but made a mistake and now we're trying to do what's right and correct it. >> good for the caucus? what does that mean? they think there's a fraternity that runs arizona and nobody else will be paying attention to it? this is how the conservatives think these days. this is modern-day conservatism. they are trying to make it right. what does that mean? even failed presidential candidate mitt romney had to get into the game. he tweeted to the governor and said veto of the bill is right.

really? mitt, gosh you're not an innocent bystander anymore. why in the world would you want to make sure that you're not involved in discrimination? you're thinking about doing it again? bring it on, brother. now, i don't know if i trust republicans' definition of right at this point. for instance, governor jan brewer saying that she'll do what's right for arizona. >> certainly i'm going to go home and when i receive the bill and i'm going to read it and be briefed on it and we have been following it. and i will make my decision in the near future. i have until friday or saturday morning to determine that. i don't rely a whole lot on my gut because i have to look at what it says and what the law says and take that information and do the right thing. but i can assure you, as always, i will do the right thing for the state of arizona. >> yeah. she's going to take discrimination under consideration. you know, i argue most people with a conscience wouldn't need a few you days to know what's

right in this case. the arizona chamber of commerce, they know what's right. industry leaders, they know what's right. they voiced their opposition citing the bill would be bad for business. well, wait a minute. i thought the conservatives were always good for business. and oh, they're lining up now. marriott, american airlines, yelp, apple. they've all sent the governor similar warnings. now, the most dangerous and most impressive and probably the most hurtful economically, this objection comes from the arizona -- to arizona's economy, the biggest threat comes from the national football league. they got big bucks, right? you see arizona is set to host the super bowl next year at the university of phoenix stadium in glendale. well, the super bowl means hundreds of millions of dollars for the local economy. but what if there's a blackout? what if there's a boycott? then what are we going to do? the nfl, they're ahead of the game and released a statement. they're paying attention to arizona politics. they said our policies emphasize

tolerance and prohibit diskrim nation based on age, gender, race, religion, sexual orientation or any other improper standard. we're following the issue in arizona and will continue to do so should the bill be signed into law. but will decline further comment at this time. is this breaking news? did the nfl just tell the state of arizona, they pulled a corker on them. you vote no, you vote the wrong way on this thing, we'll take our big show somewhere else. what else could it be? ding ding ding. the bell goes on for senator john mccain. he's awake today. took the economic approach as well. >> unfortunately, it hurts the image of our state just as a couple of years ago our other law sb 1070 that you're familiar

with. it's not an accident that our arizona chamber of commerce and our business leaders came out with a very strong message yesterday that they don't want the governor to sign this. this is going to hurt the state of arizona's economy and frankly, our image. so i hope that the governor of arizona will veto this and we move on. arizona's the most beautiful state in america. it's not helpful when we see this kind of controversy. >> wow. we're giving him a lot of time to mop this thing up, aren't we? not once did senator mccain mention the issue of civil or human rights. he didn't focus on the discrimination factor. he focused on the image. on business, it's so important. the only reason republicans are backtracking is because when the chamber of commerce and big business tell them to jump, they just say, how high? yeah, we want to keep the super bowl. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. do you trust republicans to do the right thing on senate bill

1062? text a for yes, b for now. we'll bring the results later on in the show. joining me from arizona tornt, a legislative reporter for the arizona republic. ali a, good to have you with us. you're at the state capitol right now. what's the latest? what's happening? >> reporter: i am. we've got a state lawmakers having various meetings with the governor. that's the big thing today whochlt has been in her office, who has been out. what is everybody saying, what the governor might do. that's the big question of the day. what and when? >> why is it taking so long? >> reporter: the governor says she wants to weigh all her options, talk to both sides. i think that's a good question. i think several lawmakers have made it pretty clear that everybody is kind of tired of the circus that has resulted and is looking for some kind of an answer. >> alia, tell us, who is now

still in favor of the bill? the governor had secret meetings today with the opponents and proponents. who are the outspoken proponents at this point now that the national spotlight is on arizona's legislative session? >> well, we have a very conservative legislature. there are definitely a number of republican lawmakers who are in support of it. senator al melvin, who is running for governor has been a proponent, both on social media and publicly. then there are a number of other lawmakers who supported the bill who continue to support it. >> what do you make of the legislator who said, we really didn't want it, we were just doing it for the caucus, it's almost as if they didn't read the bill. it's an admission that they made a mistake. is this how arizona politics runs? are there other issues where they simply don't read the legislation, they just do what advocacy groups tell them to do? >> i don't think it's necessarily an issue of not reading the bill. it's only two pages. it doesn't take very long to

read it. i definitely think it's -- there's a lot of politics. we had a big fight over medicaid last session that divided the caucus. there's been a big effort to reunite the republican caucus this session. there's a lot of back politics playing into it that maybe have very little to do with this bill. >> i'm sorry. that is hilarious. all this over a two-page bill. just too much work for these legislators to consume a two-page bill and to come back and say, well, we mailde a mistake. that's amazing to me. alia, rau, thanks for your time. i appreciate it. two-page bill and now they're running away from it. let me tell you something, folks. let's not lose sight of the fact that the house and the senate, you know, this wasn't put together on a bar napkin. they wrote this legislation. they willingly put together a piece of legislation that was going to discriminate against arizona citizens and they got

caught. that's what happened. let's bring in arizona state representative a lit ahern hern. ms. hernandez, good to have you with us tonight. >> thank you, ed. >> what are your colleagues in arizona saying about this, the way the republicans are backtracking from this? >> well, it's to be expected. when i first saw you on saturday, when you were last here in arizona, i was feeling crushed at the moment because it was the onset. it had just been voted on. had just passed. i was feeling like what is it going to take for this to go away? what is it that we as arizona must do. and what i started seeing over the next few days was american express, i mean, apple, wanting to do business in arizona coming out and speaking against the bill. i think that there's got to be a lot of more of that. i'm grateful for that. but for me, like i said, it's a

very different feeling than what i was feeling on saturday. i'm more optimistic. i think still there's a disconnect in our community. i think it's an opportunity for us to come together with business community. this is only but one issue. we've got many more issues that are very much alike, that discriminate and work against working families and our arizona citizens. >> lydia, what is taking the governor so long to make a decision on this? >> i think she's really weighing it out. i'm glad for how long it's taking her, honestly. that means to me conversations are taking place. if she would have made a decision right off the cuff, i would have been fearful. so i'm hopeful with the conversations that are taking place. i think we need more business folks to come forward to apply that pressure. >> i want to know about -- >> very good opportunity. >> okay. i want to know about cathy herrod and her involvement.

did she actually write this bill or was it handed to her through a group she was pushing and also her association with the republican candidate for governor? what about all that? >> you know, i've had very few conversations directly with cathi herrod and maybe one conversation on an issue. i can't tell you where it comes from, her or a group. i know there's a conservative push not just here in arizona but all over the nation. i think that push comes from there, honestly. lydia, hernandez, state representative in arizona. i told you saturday night, keep the faith. keep going. it's all going to work out. >> thank you, ed. up next, a new attack on voting rights in ohio as governor john kasich signs two more voter registration bills into law. senator brown joins us with the reaction. one of the poorest places in the country takes a stand against

big oil. we'll bring you to the live location and coverage of the rosewood sioux reservation in south dakota. stay with us. orbiting the moon in 1971. [ male announcer ] once it's earned, usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection. and because usaa's commitment to serve current and former military members and their families is without equal. begin your legacy. get an auto insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve. [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ she can print amazing things, right from her computer. [ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] she makes trains that are friends with trees. ♪ my mom works at ge.

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with even more of what you love in every bottle. ♪ because more of what you love is a beautiful thing. the new tide plus collection. what's your tide? time for the trenders, social media action pretty heavy. that's right. governor brewer is going home to study a two-page bill. how could that not be trending. facebook.com/ed show. twitter.com/ed show@msnbc.com is where you can catch us. i'll have a lot to say on the radio tomorrow noon to 3:00. on progressive talk stations across the country. you get my podcast on my radio webcast. ed show social media has decided here are the top trenders voted on by you. >> give me a beat. ♪ >> the number three trender. i don't, first lady raps.

>> we need to keep on coming up with new ideas to get kids excited. at marshall high school in virginia, kids wrote and performed a rap song. if i'm going to help my brain come to fruition, i'm going to have to feed it quality nutrition. >> michelle obama promotes healthy eating with some fresh beats. >> roll my chicken in a wrap, don't jam it in a nugget. get hype for healthy snacks, fresh food we love it. >> get jiggy with it. >> holler. >> the number two trender. four score. 4 million people. >> 4 million. >> it's over 9,000. >> four million americans who have signed up for quality private health insurance. >> health care sign-ups hits 4 million. >> march 31st rs that's the last call. we want everybody covered. >> critics remain skeptical. >> 4 million people. that's almost a meaningless number.

>> perhaps the repeat of the numbers there is in hopes that it will add all those millions together. >> you multiply each one by n. >> it isn't a real number. >> that's really curious to see how he comes up with 4 million. >> i think i need a tutor. >> today's top trender. block the vote. the state of ohio is back at it again. >> it's like groundhog day. every time you wake up, they're restricting voting rights. offjohn kasich signed into law. >> it is easy to vote in ohio. >> to cut off the voices of the everyday folks to have an opportunity to vote. >> ohio's secretary of state makes a move to restrict voting. >> we are ground zero in in war against voting rights. >> we should be expanding and protecting the right to vote. >> fair is when everybody plays by the same rules. >> making suts to early voting and in person early voting disproportionately hits african-americans. >> we're going backwards.

>> joining us tonight, governor sherrod brown from ohio. good to have you. >> good to be back. >> this is going to be a connection and a leap. this is just ed talking. my friend, this is about you. i'll tell you why it's about you. because you have stood up to the big banks, you've got legislation to break up the banks, john kasich knows he needs wall street to go further politically. they don't want you back in the senate. i do believe that restricting the vote with these laws are going to certainly hurt the democratic base across the board. senator, congratulations. >> what an honor. >> the bad news is it's going to hurt a lot of folks, isn't it? >> it's been -- this has been across the country. ohio is sort of always the epicenter because of the presidential race and sort of the premiere swing state. but they went after collective bargaining rights. that's why you spent so much time no ohio in 2011. they went after women's rights in one of the middle of the night insertion of the budget

bill. some of the most anti-women health care rules and regulations. and now they're going after voting rights, which they've also tried to do before. fundamentally, they talk -- say they want to do something about jobs but they spend their time on this stuff and it's all a question, you know, they know they're losing the battle. they're losing elections so they change the rules. these are bipartisan rules written by a republican legislature a decade ago. it was a republicans legislature, republican governor that drafted all these voting rules and now they realize, well, we can't restrict the vote quite enough. so we got to redo them and keep people, certain people from voting let's just say. >> the certain people, number one minorities, number two the working folks, wage earners. voting on weekends reduced. voting on evenings reduced. the number of polling places reduced. i mean, they're going after the middle class. they're going after the working folks of america. how else do you read it?

>> it's their economic plan trickle down economics, tax cuts for the rich. everything is aimed at workers and minorities and the poor. the way necessity govern is all about that. it's a mean-spiritedness that we really didn't see in this country a decade or two decades ago. even when conservatives in the reagan years didn't do this kind much stuff. there was more bipartisanship on minimum wage, more bipartisanship on extending unemployment benefits. there was consensus by and large on voting rights. by and large. there were some on the edge against civil rights bills but they said this is what we want to. when i was secretary of state, i went to mcdonald's corporation, they printed up one million tray liners, pieces of paper this big you put down on the plastic trays when people got their food, they were voter registration forms. you could fill them in, mail them in to the secretary of state's office. we had registration forms with ketchup stains but they were

legitimate. people voted. more people voted. now this crowd wants to do the opposite of that. it's morally reprehensible if nothing else. >> governor sherrod brown. keep up the good work. coming up, divided heartland, the american debate continues. folks in the middle of the country are taking action. >> something has awakened in all of us and i think many people around the united states and around the world. so i think the day is starting to change for big oil companies. >> you put in pipeline through, you just as well change the slogan of the land of the free to the land of big money. because that is what it is. >> plus, we'll take you live to the rosebud sioux reservation for a new compelling piece of the keystone xl debate. but next, i'm taking your questions on ask ed live. that's ahead. we'll be right back. your eyes really are unique.

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thanks for watching the ed show. love this segment. we're a little tight on time. we have a lot on the back end of the show. first question from matt, do you think walmart's support of manufacturing products made in the united states will backfire? first of all, i think it's 9 8% pr. and speaking of percentages, let's give them a year or two and then let's find out what percentage of american products are going to be on the shelves in walmart. isn't that the test? lots more coming up next part of the ed show. stay with us. i'm bertha coombs with your market raps. the dow adds about 18 points, the s&p just barely positive. while the nasdaq was up over 4. fell to the lowest level in

nearly 20 years. target's data breach took a bite out of the company's earnings but the results edged past expectations from analysts. shares rose 7% today. that's it from cnbc. we're first in business worldwide.

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welcome back to the ed show. tonight we continue our investigation into the keystone xl pipeline focusing on the native american fight. we were on the ground in nebraska on friday and a group of rosebud sioux tribal members drove six hours to meet with me and our team. they say the pipeline will bring violent crime and toxic water to their already struggling community. it's one of the most economically depressed places in the country but the people are rich in tradition and in

determination in their fight against a multinational company flooded with cash and a government they feel has forsaken them yet again. >> there are three major issues that support those who oppose the pipeline. the oil itself, the toxic quality of the tar sands oil, the placement of the pipeline over the aquifer and the land rights of the landowners. >> i have a trans canada memo that says it will leak 1 to 2% undetected. >> undetected? >> undetected. >> for a pipeline that spills 800,000 -- i mean, that carries 800,000 barrels a day, that's a lot of tar sends and benzene into the ground undetected. >> what's your response to those who are concerned about it coming over the aquifer? >> i think they've alleviated that process, that problem by

going around it up at the sand hills. we have aquifers all over in this state. >> couple those with political pressure and what landowners call the unscrupulous business tactics of trans canada. >> trans canada wants to push this idea of, they want to say thousands of jobs that they're creating and maybe 100 jobs they're creating. >> certainly this thing creates jobs, 42,000 of them. people criticize that number but that is the number. certainly enhances u.s. energy security if you can bring more barrels from a continental source. >> they're the best used car salesmen you'll find. but they only have to sell you one car and then when that car is sold, they're going to be out of the country. there's no -- >> they're already out of the country. >> there's no warranty on this used car that they're going to sell us. >> but there is another facet to

this project and story which has received little or no attention, the concerns of the native americans. the pipeline is strategically placed through the united states so it doesn't touch reservation land. although it comes within feet of the reservation along the route. the sioux nation still has concerns about the steel city segment of the project which cuts through south dakota. this connects with the cushing extension of the pipeline in kansas. portions of the project have already been constructed, but the native americans are determined to make sure their concerns are met. although some state lawmakers claim they never heard from the sioux tribe. >> i never was contacted by any of the tribal leaders. i know that was a point that was brought up by one of the groups, but none of the tribes ever

spoke to me about it. >> tonight their story. joining me now gary door of one tribe and weez i upon little elk of the rosebud sioux tribe from south dakota. gentlemen, thank you for being on the program tonight. gary, you first. what are your people major concern about this pipeline if it goes through? >> well, the major concern we have is obviously the effect that this could have on the natural resources, on the people and on the sacred sites. and the fact that the tribe has not been consulted. multiple tribes have not been con sumted as part of this process, which is required under the national preservation act. we are supposed to be at the table as signatories. we've been relegated to concurring parties, which does

not give us any recourse for responding to the needs that we have with the structure that's going to go into place. >> gary, do you want the pipeline project stopped? and if you do, what's your next play? >> well, we do want the pipeline stopped. it's in the form that it's in right now, the mechanics that's already in place, we've seen from keystone one, there's been 14 oil leaks on that keystone 1 pipeline in the first 18 months of operation. and if this keeps on going. the rosebud sioux tribe is poised to stand the line and keep the pipeline from going through this territory. >> what does that mean? >> well, we're going to have a series of spiritual camps that we set up along the pipeline. we'll be standing on the line to

prevent them from going through. >> you will prevent the pipeline from being built? >> we will stand the ground, yes. >> wheeze i pond, what about the tribe, what are the biggest concerns and will you stand the line as well? >> thanks for having us on, ed. actually, gary is from nes purse but we're appreciative of our brothers and sisters in other tribes are appreciative of the efforts that they've made and other tribes to stop the mega loads and impacting their treaty grounds and the health and welfare of their people and we're thankful for the efforts of other tribes that we're standing with and also we're very thankful and appreciative of the support and the efforts that our friends, indian and

nonindian throughout the country are showing and we were very pleased with our brothers and sisters in nebraska. >> wizi pan what threat does this pipeline present to your people? >> it presents a number of threats, both politically and legally. one of the biggest threats is actually the health, welfare and safety of our women and children. even in some instances, young boys. just for further background, ed, one in three american indian women are raped in nair lifetime or sexually assaulted and 86% of the time where there's a rape or a sexual assault, that crime is committed, the perpetrator is a nonindian. that's just the reported statistics. and we've seen this kind of assault on native womanhood, assault on our people in the man camps up in north dakota, with a

lot of the development that's going on up there. so we know that it's a fact. we have communities that are right by the pipeline. we know where the man camp is going to be located and we have serious and grave concerns about, you know, just the basic safety of our people. >> so is this man camp going to be located near the residents of the rosebud indians, the rosebud tribe there, the sioux indians and the man camp is going to be so close to your people that you think that there would be rapes and violence and that there is a real safety concern here? >> well, we have communities that are living in five counties, spread across our traditional rosebud territory. and these man camps are right in the middle of our traditional home lands guaranteed to us by the 1868 treaty. again, we've seen this up in north dakota and other areas. it may not be right on, within feet of someone's land, but

these people are going out there and interacting in the community, they're going to the same places and going that our people frequent. based on what we've seen in north dakota, we can expect some really bad things to happen. >> gary dorr, if the president of the united states was doing this interview right now, what would you say to him? >> i would call out to black eagle as he's known to the native people. i would ask him to look at his own initiative on consultation and these tribes that are all along from montana all the way down to texas. we deserve that consultationment we enjoy a special relationship with the united states as a nation to nation government and as your former nebraska senator last night or congresswoman said, she said that they were not consulted. we don't consult with the states, we consult with the united states of america, the federal government. and that has not been met.

in the programmatic agreement, we were not consulted, we have not signed off and we deserve that signatory status in the programmatic agreement. we deserve to be consulted. >> gentlemen, i would like to come out to your reservation and see exactly where this man camp is going to be and i'd like to know how the security is going to be resolved if the pipeline goes through. gary dorr and wizipan little elk, thanks for joining us on the ed show and we'll continue to follow the story. thank you so much. our continuing coverage right here on msnbc with a turn to a big supporter of the pipe liefrn. we're going to talk to governor brian switzer. he weighs on the concerns and the land grab and the dangers to the water supply coming up. stay with us. one direction: up so we're up early. up late. thinking up game-changing ideas, like this: dozens of tax free zones across new york state.

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bringing stories from nebraska about the pipeline. the state has become the battleground in the fight against the keystone xl project. coming up next montana governor joins us live with message from land owners protesting the pipeline. our series continue next here on msnbc and the ed show. to manage your money. that's not much, you think except it's 2 percent every year. does that make a difference? search "cost of financial advisors" ouch! over time it really adds up. then go to e*trade and find out how much our advice costs. spoiler alert. it's low. really? yes, really. e*trade offers investment advice and guidance from dedicated professional financial consultants. it's guidance on your terms not ours that's how our system works. e*trade. less for us, more for you. those little cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment is right. cialis is also the only daily ed tablet approved to treat symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently.

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welcome back. the big picture effort against the keystone xl pipeline is the concern over global carbon emissions. to the environmentalist this is more of the same although carbon emissions don't seem to be the driving issue for many of the folks in nebraska. >> wherever you go people want to talk about the pipeline. this is an issue that is at the heart of a lot of things in nebraska because -- and i think one of the main reasons is it brings everything together. >> for the people of nebraska it is about the aquafer and the land grab. these issues have cultivated new alliances. >> it is the citizens and landowners and tribes. when we started we had about a thousand e-mails of folks and now we have over 25,000. and about 90% of those are nebraskaens and over 3,500 small donors. we have strong support in our

state. >> landowners here say they have experienced what they never thought could happen in america. >> truly outrageous part of this whole thing, our governor and our legislature granted the power of imminent domain to a foreign corporation that is still in the permitting process. they had the power to come and condemn any of our properties that were on the pipeline route even though they don't have a permit to be in the united states. to me that is totally outrageous. and the sad part is if you follow the pipeline route south dakota has the same thing. montana changed imminent domain laws in favor of pipe lines and that type of thing. so they have greased all the wheels all up and down the line. they have undue influence in so many legislatures. and we are seeing the power of

money in america. >> in this entire debate the only assurance that landowners have been given about protecting the water is a shrug of the shoulders, just don't worry about it. >> the safest ship ever built. [ laughter ] >> titanic. >> we are definitely stubborn here in nebraska, no question about that. landowners in other states are stubborn, as well. i think the water, the massive amount that our state sits on definitely is a game changer with this pipeline. it certainly touches other states, as well. you are essentially talking about our entire state. we are an ag state. we are not an oil state. >> joining us tonight former montana governor and first appearance as msnbc contributor. doing the homework on this and the research i can't seem to get

a good answer from anybody who is a supporter of the pipeline as to what about the potential damage to the aquafer if there is a big spill? >> i will leave it to the real experts, this dr. gecky, foremost authority on the planet. he has more than 1,000 test holes and is described in an article in the "new york times" that there is a minimal chance for this oil on the surface to reach it. this is not a water soluble product. there is a lot of geology between the surface and the water. some people don't understand it is not just some lake down there. this is like a sponge. these are rocks down there that contain this water. now, the greatest danger is all the wells that have been drilled, both oil and gas wells

and the 100,000 plus irrigation wells that go directly from the fields down to the aquafer. there are more than 12 pesticides used on those fields found in the aquafer. >> if there were to be a pipeline disaster the way there was in north dakota where a million gallons was put out on the land, you think this would have no effect on the water? >> there is no conduett it for it to get there because water is not soluble. >> the real concern to the landowners is an international corporation basically cash whipped the landowners except for a 75 mile window and permitting is an issue. what is your response to that? >> well, there is 10,000 miles

of pipe lines that crisscross nebraska right now. there is 100,000 that crisscross. there is 81 pipe lines from canada right now. this would be the 82nd pipeline almost all carrying oil sands and many of them cross through nebraska in some way or another. imminent domain i have been familiar with. my dad used to meet the land men with the shotgun. they come back because that is what this society does. in order for you to get oil someplace, to some other customer or to run a transmission line to somebody's house or farm you had to come through somebody else's ranch. imminent domain says if the company can't make a deal with the land owner then a judge decides what the compensation level should be. >> and finally, what about the concerns of the sioux tribe? you must have heard earlier in the broadcast, they say they have not been legally consulted.

>> again, that's the south dakota style of government. certainly in montana we always do government to government relationships with the tribes. >> but it is a federal issue with the tribes, is it not? >> it should be a federal issue with the tribes. the state is the regulating agency but the state has got to do business government to government. >> good to have you with us tonight. i appreciate your time so much. we will continue our series tomorrow night here on "the ed show". "politics nation" starts right now. thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's lead, the fight against stand your ground and the legacy of trayvon martin. today vigils and protests are being held all across the country to mark a somber date. it's been exactly two years si