because people sacrificed. our votes were soaked in the blood of martyrs and we will not let them take them without fighting firmly and nonviolently to protect what others made sure we had. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. ted cruz secedes from the union. let's play "hardball." good evening i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start with this. american demaekeracy has rested on the people's changing loyalties between two major political parties, like two teams taking their turns at bat. for a century and a half we have chosen either a democrat or republican to be our president.

what if one of the two parties goes ballistic heading so far off the spectrum it is no longer competing for the must just of the voters' loyalty? what if the republicans get hijacked? if the republican party becomes a torpedo headed for the u.s. capitol and becomes a missile targeted at the government itself. smirks publicly t at the trouble he has created. ted cruz in texas government shutdowns and debt ceiling defaults are all in a day's work. for him compromise is a curse word. and republican senators spend their days running from fights as he puts it. today we hear news that he is forming a group that wants to topple a whole slate of leaders

and veterans. can he explode the party leaving it unable to compete, for example, with hillary clinton next time? also that his wild bunch can rebuild it to a smaller, nastier political party home only to the hard and bitter right wing? dav dav david, we have right, left, center. we have one guy i know of who seems to have a ballistic purpose, the blow up his political party. rand paul wants to move it to the right. we know that. he may succeed. this guy wants to take it apart starting at the top. >> i think the way to understand ted cruz is to realize he believes he is leading a crusade. there is a theology to this and political calculations but he believes that republicans if they do anything, if they let the obama budget pass they are enabling what he sees as the

destruction of the united states and he is taking it, self appointed. >> the function of the american government is his enemy. >> self-appointed to be the one to say no to this gives him part of the tea party base. i come to the conclusion that he believes he is the conservative savior. if that means electing peep folks to believe obama is like nazi. >> he is out to knock off mitch mcconnell, knock off roberts, knock off cochran. he is going down a whole list of republicans he has lunch with every week that he is trying to destroy. >> i disagree slightly with what david is saying. i think ted cruz is a charlotten. >> you think he is a fraud? >> i have been falling him for 15 years now and i think he is a an opportunist. of course he is not loyal to the

republican party, none other than his own interest. you saw he switched from being an establishment lawyer-type guy who helped to get george bush elected to suddenly this demi god from the tea party. he sees this as a way to his own -- >> here is what chris writes in a fundraising letter for something called the madison project. take note of the mccarthiest language in that number. our nation desperately needs more strong conservative fighters in the senate, not more moderate career politicians who will sacrifice principle and compromise with democrats at every turn. it is time to elect some conservatives who won't run from a fight. there he is. run from a fight. these guys are not to be trusted. he is talking about mcconnell. >> mccain, lindsey graham.

the guys they are supporting, chris mcdaniel, a guy who went to a neoconfederate group's meeting. and wolf in kansas. he is second cousin of obama but compares obama to hitler and posts x rays of dead people to the internet and makes jokes about it. and matt beven running against mcconnell who says he was against the bailout who was in favor of the bailout. it is not principle conservatives. it is a civil war within the republican party. >> i did this the other night because this guy wolf, these guys are crazy people. they are saying stuff you would never nominate them if you had an election. this group like this madison project, they find these people and say anybody crazy enough to run against incumbent republican senator is our guy. >> and then they lose in that battle or come to washington and

get consumed by the process and become establishment politicians. ted cruz is determined not to do that. >> how do you know he is a fraud? i have heard that story around town. >> i saw him in austin when he was working in the late '90s for george w. bush and ridiculed by colleagues on the bush campaign by this negatively ambitious guy. the position wasn't as important as ted cruz being the hero. >> one thing interesting about his background, i spent a lot of time listening to tapes of his father speaking, his father is an extreme pastor and as far on the tea party extreme as you can get. there is something about the merging of tea party and religious right that his fatherer -- >> confusion. >> so there is a long legacy of actually believing or at least absorbing.

>> he was part -- anyway, it is always murky sometimes. in this case, i don't like cast ro. i don't like him or his brother or his regime. if we lost it they would be shooting us and he would have been enjoying it. this guy seems to believe that our elected democratic government castro. that is delusion. >> i suspect he doesn't actually think that. he is looking at 2016. does he think he is actually going to be the nominee? not necessarily but he does see himself as the defacto leaderer of this movement. whatever he is doing now if he has to sacrifice mcconnell and others along the way it is ultimately in the service -- >> you think this is a short runner. >> he has alienated everybody in his party. >> earlier this month cruz set a

trap for republican leaders in the senate and fill bustered a vote to raise the debt ceiling meaning a hand full of republicans would have to join [ inaudible ] with the 55 democrats to prevent an economic collapse in the country. the result was chaos on the senate floor. you were there. >> i was there. >> you want me to read your column to you? >> mitch mcconnell was running around with three fingers in the air, the number of votes they needed. they were scrambling. these guys were ring hands and there was ted cruz chewing bubble gum with hands in pocket. he didn't care how it turned out. the whole idea was the disruption was the purpose. the means were the end. >> and you have him smirking at the confusion and hell of the republican party. >> it was great for him and bad for the republican party. who cares about the republican party? it was very nearly catastrophic.

>> mcconnell found five people willing to walk the plank. here is part of the ad he just ran attacking mcconnell. >> when cruz was asked by dana bash about this obvious case of sabotage here is his response. >> i'll tell you several people raised the question like you did there. why are you trying to throw five republicans under the bus and make them vote for raising the debt ceiling? i'll tell you my response. my response is i don't want to throw any republicans under the bus. >> he did. was that done out of sadness? >> he was saying it was an easy vote and should have agreed with with me and allowed the nation to go into default.

he can afford to because he knows mcconnell is going to be the grownup. >> he had the ability to be pure and not suffer the consequences. he knewt that somebody else would save the bacon when the government shutdown happened he was left on the cross. here you can get out there and say i am going to be as pure as any tea partier is and let mitch mcconnell ride to the rescue and no one is going to blame him for default. >> the way i try to figure out how it will lead to paoliticpol last february a piece noting cruz voting against pretty much every piece of legislation in the senate. when they asked cruz's office about it his spokesman beamed saying he didn't come to washington to make friends but came to save the country. let's talk about the theory. the latest numbers, you like people to run for president. he is running among 2016

hopefuls. this is not who you want. when asked about each candidate individually only 24% of republicans said they want to see cruz run for president. that puts him dead last in a list that includes chris christie, marco rubio, rand paul and jeb bush. >> that poll doesn't capture the intensity of people. he is going for the guys who will outlast everybody in iowa caucuses. he is looking for the absolute true believeers in the party. i can't imagine -- he can't imagine he is going to win the republican nomination much less the presidency. he can become a hero. >> they all think they can win. listen, jeb bush doesn't run, chris christie doesn't run that leaves rand paul, marco rubio. he has the energy. and the crusade rolls on. >> they are meeting in las

vegas. and then ted cruz giving speeches like this and rand paul is the moderate compared to him. i wonder why they are self-destructing here. that is what i think is going to happen. i think rand paul against hillary clinton and she is going to clean his clock. thank you. coming up democrats have a is simple plan for 2014 win women and win elections. today democrats took a big step on economic fairness important to women. they move to force a vote in the house. force the republicans to say yes or no to the petition. also, we are used to seeing actor seth roguen in comedies like "knocked up". >> when i found out about -- i just had this flash of me like in a white ford bronco ask just hauling [ bleep ] for canada and the chopper and the whole thing. and i bust through the border and i'm a free man. that is all i kept thinking, man. >> today he took on a much more

serious role on capitol hill, alzheimer's disease. what's in a name? a lot if your name is bush, jeb bush. no surprise jeb thinks sharing the last name of two former presidents isn't going to help him when he runs in 2016. finally let me finish with how president obama is better on fiscal responsibility than cheap shots who attack him. this is "hardball," place for politics.

town hall today. listen to what the government says about politics. >> the fact is that i have an obligation to tell you all the truth no matter what. and let's remember something else about politics, too. i'm in my second term now.

according to our constitution that means i can't run for governor again. i can tell you something that's really good news for you. really good news for you. here is why. i'm not worried about politics anymore. this is it. i'm on the back nine. and you are on the back nine and you don't have to worry about playing another front nine your only obligation is to tell people the truth. >> i'm in the back nine. that's what is called spin. all the charges that lay against him in the court system and in the legal system are somehow all just politics. very clever. so does that mean that when he said he is not going to run for president? a lot of republicans hope that is true. take another look at that "new york times" poll, republicans say they don't want christie to run for president. we will be right back. that are powered by the moon.

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welcome back to "hardball." today democrats made good on their promise they made nearly two weeks ago at the winter retreat to try to force a vote on the national minimum wage to $10.10. a lot of republicans believe in a higher minimum wage. it is hard to disagree with an effort to give america a raise. democrats hope to push the raise especially women voters and motivates them to vote. here is nancy pelosi. >> over 60% of the people getting minimum wage are women. and what the impact of this is on women and when women succeed america succeeds. mr. speaker, give us a vote. >> well, democrats can't do it alone. they need a majority in the house and 218 to get this passed. congressman bishop filed a

discharge petition to force the house vote on the $10.10 minimum wage. he pointed out there were no republicans lining up to sign on. >> when i left the chamber there was a long line of members signing the discharge petition. i regret to observe that in that line were only democrats. >> congressman jim clibert of south carolina and long-time advocate of raising minimum wage and also joining us is casie hunt. congressman, i'm curious is this an issue for the democrats or a victory? if you win you win before november, before the house adjourns. if you don't win you talk about it. what is the goal? win or talk about it in the election? >> it is always to win. i would much rather see the people on main street of america, those hard working men and women get the raise they deserve. that's why we are doing this. we believe that to raise the

minimum wage will lift a couple of million people out of poverty. it will affect 60% of the people affected are women. so many of the women are heads of households. that is what we want to do. we want to give america a raise and we will worry about the politics of it later. >> i got to talk about it now because i'm not sure this thing can win. you have 199 members. you need 218. you need at least -- how are you going to get the reasonable republicans mostly from the northeast to midwest to vote with you? how do you put the pressure on these guys to sign your petition? >> i do believe that if all the democrats were assigned this discharge petition and i have already heard that two or three republicans said they are open

to this, then i believe that the pressure comes from the voters. over 70% of the american people say that we ought to raise the minimum wage. and so it won't be us doing it. we will have done our part when we sign. i was number 111 today which means we only need 107 more. so i would hope that we can get to that because all we are asking is for a vote and then let the people decide whether or not they want to vote for it or just bring it to the floor. that's all this does. >> you are an expert at politics and civil rights. i have great respect for you. let me suggest street tactics. why don't you go to suburban districts around philly, go to those districts and peter king out there and go to talk radio and put in tag team out there. and get in there and talk it up. and then go into the guys'

office and say are you going to sign or not? when he says no you come out and refuse to sign. build on the fact that he is refusing you. hit him for not signing now. what is going to change between now and november? make him say no. when he says no you nail him. just a thought. >> i agree with you. we do plan to do that. and we do plan for our challengers out there to raise this issue, run on this issue. and i really believe it is a winning issue. we are seeing that even in the statewide base down in kentucky running for united states senate is pushing for minimum wage as one of the things she is far. i believe this is a winning issue for any of our people who are challenging in the districts like pennsylvania and new york. >> i want you to watch what governor of connecticut.

here is how he made his case. he was fighting with bobby jindal at the white house. he came on here last night and kept the fight going. here is how he made the case machine gun style on "hardball" last night. >> the people who will benefit the most are women. and women are supported by 79%. we need to move people out of poverty. we particularly need to move women out of poverty. women in our country deserve to work 40 hours a week and not live in poverty. women in our country deserve a minimum wage that will lift them out of poverty to raise their children, to raise their families and to contribute, either you are for women or for building middle class or against it. >> pretty good, huh? >> absolutely. i could not have said it better myself. >> just listen to this guy. let's bring in casie hunt on the numbers. let's get a reporter to talk about the numbers. 218 to get a bill on the floor. 218 to pass it once you get it there. a petition could put pressure on

republicans but doesn't deliver the 218. does it between now and november? >> i don't see it delivering 218 because i don't think that many republicans are willing to cross speaker john boehner. it is one thing to want to vote for this if your leader decided to put it on the floor. it is a little bit of a thumb in the eye to sign this at this point and sort of say you are not running the floor the way we want to. i think you sort of outlined it pretty well, i think democrats see it as an organizing tool, something to take in the districts and swing areas and across the country as sort of a unifying message, especially one they can use to appeal to women that goes beyond arguments about reproductive rights and into broader themes that we see driving the election. >> what about labor areas where you have a lot of labor influence and a lot of organized people and workers? it is like card check. it would work. you go around to the guy or woman and say sign or don't sign but you are not with the worker

if you don't sign. you are not one of us. you are a free rider here. they have to go to the speaker and say you have to release me. there is too much heat on me. >> that is the other potential effect that this could have. districts have been used to put pressure on the opposing party to offer their own version of similar legislation. if there is enough internal pressure it is possible that they could eventually put pressure on to do another type of bill. what the congressman was saying earlier there is already divisions running on minimum wage. mark prior in arkansas is running away from a federal bill. he embraced a state level hike to minimum wage. he says the bill before congress is too much too fast. >> he is in the right to work state. congressman, you are hopeful of this happening, right? >> i really believe it's

possible to do. i think you are exactly right, both of you, i think are right on the money. we have to create a climate among the electorate to make them clamor for this. we are not going to be able to make it happen ourselves. all we can do is get our people to sign, get our challengers to run on this issue. and those of us here help them make this the issue that it can be. if we do it then i do believe that we can see some people saying to mr. boehner you got to bring this to the floor. >> "hardball" supports a $10.10 national minimum wage, sir. now it is official. you heard it here. thanks for coming on. casie hunt, thanks for reporting to us. actor/comedian seth rogen today in town on a much more serious mission, a family mission, if you will. this is "hardball," the place for politics. people don't have to think about

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a new poll shows half of new jersey residents believe chris christie was involved in the bridge gate scandal, half of them. while the other half know how to keep their fricking mouth shut. >> the turmoil in the ukraine has some in this country speculating about the potential impact on the 2014 and 2016 elections. as jon stewart pointed out it is unclear it will have any effect. >> ukraine does rank as an issue just under equal rights for ghosts and should evolution be taught in pools. and i'm sure that ukraine is

equally as fixated on american politics. only one way to find out. >> translator: i believe the surprising will help christie. we have done it to distract from bridge gate. >> next up jeb bush may be considering a bid for president in 2016 but the question looms, how many bushes are too many bushes? he addressed the concern acknowledging that his last name might be a big hurdle for voters. >> we had a bush, then a clinton, then a bush, then a clinton and then turned to me and goes and then a bush. i get the point. and it is something that if i was to run i would have to overcome that. and so will hillary, by the way. >> not the same way. however, on the late show last night david letterman had a

different take on what the bush family legacy means for jeb in 2016. >> i would say to jeb bush really if you are thinking of running for president you, jeb bush, my friend, have mighty big shoes to fill. take a look. ♪ ♪ >> i love that at the end. up next the great comedingic actor seth rogen coming to the table. today he is here in town for serious business testifying before congress on his fight against alzheimer's disease. a lot of us know about that. you are watching "hardball." this is interesting.

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at 7:45 p.m. eastern time arizona governor jan brewer will be talking about the controversial anti-gay law passed by the state legislature last week. president obama travelled st. paul where he unveiled a plan to improve the transportation infrastructure. flooding is expected in some areas. now back to "hardball." well, this is good even

though it is a sad subject. actor comedian seth rogen sits here. he kept us laughing in movies like "knocked up", "pineapple express". he came to testify today on alzheimer's. he is a spokesman for national alzheimer's association. he used comic relief to show how the deadly disease has touched him personally. >> thank you for the opportunity to testify today and for the opportunity for me to be called an expert at something because that is cool. i don't know if you know who i am at all. you told me you never saw "knocked up". >> i want the record to note this is the first time in any congressional hearing in history that the words knocked up have been used. >> you are not going to like the rest of this, then.

after forgetting who she and her loved ones were, my mother and law forgot how to speak, feed herself, dress herself and go to the bathroom herself all by the age of 60. that's right, the situation is so dire that it caused me, a lazy self-involved generally self-medicated man child to start an entire charity organization. >> your mother-in-law diagnosed at the age of what? >> 54 i believe. >> when did she loses wearness of who everybody was? >> a few years after that around 60 which was around when i was getting married. we feel like our wedding was kind of the last time we saw like some recognition. >> and people learn how to fake it, too. >> she seemed like over the years there was kind of some mechanisms that she would come up with but eventually it became to the point that there is no hiding it or faking it.

>> it struck ronald reagan, if you talk to nancy reagan she says it is worse than anything. you lose your company, the person you love. >> it has been unbelievably sad to see and so unlike how i have seen it portrayed in the media and real life. that is one of the things that made me start doing this is that i had been so uneducated. >> the nicest thing people say is my mother watched you to the end meaning people are aware of it. i call it the long good bye. i lost my mom this way. are we getting closer to find -- do we know anything we didn't before? >> i was just at this hearing. and there were people who know much more about this than i do testifying. and the overall answer they seem to have to that question is they don't know. it seems like the biggest problem and they don't have enough money to fund the ideas

they have to pursue these avenues of thought. it seems like they are not even quite at the place to answer the questions because the money is so inconsistent that they don't know. they are just now, it seems like, getting enough to start moving the direction, to start answering the questions but even still the frustration i can hear in the voices of the researchers. >> who is doing the work? nih? >> nih it seems on the forefront. >> a friend of ours got alzheimer's at the age of 50. >> my wife's mother was in her 50s. >> he died in a few years. my mom was 15 years. i think it is more normal, it takes a while. >> it is unbelievably painful. i didn't realize it was a fatal disease. >> let's go to "hardball." one problem i saw i didn't see senators sitting there. i saw harkin and moran and other

seats empty. usually the senators at least show when the cameras were there. why weren't they there? >> i hope they had somewhere better to be. >> you think so? >> i think it is indicative of the mentality that we find so frustrating is that it seems to be low priority. it seems like these people don't care. that's the direct message they are giving by leaving during the testimony is that they don't care. two of them were falling asleep during the first part of the testimony, literally. i saw it happening. and then they ask questions that are answered in the testimony because they clearly weren't paying attention. on the ground floor level there were distressing things i witnessed just being in that room and seeing how two of the people seemed to care and everyone else i have no idea what they were doing. >> what is solarity for charity?

>> an organization goal to get young people involved. >> once you get alzheimer's it is too late to do much good. >> our generation soon will be affected by it. it is not just grandparents. it is parents. we saw absolutely no attempt being made by anyone really to educate young people about what is happening. >> you know what it is important. i interrupt -- >> i like it. >> the key thing about this, it is not like somebody isn't that bright and becomes less bright. it strikes like thunder. it goes after women, my mom was wanting to run for city council. it strikes people that are gung ho intellectually and read the paper and are thinkers and play bridge and do everything to fight it. it just keeps coming. >> again, what i have been so shocked by is how she literally can't walk or talk or feed

herself. she is in a wheelchair a lot of the time. there is literally no communication. a brief moment of eye contact. >> are there wonderful flashbacks like she knows somebody? >> no. if she said two words in a row we would be thrilled. there is hello. >> let's get something done here. you are here. we are live. tell me what people should do? they care about you personally. >> some do. i mean, i think people need to -- a stink needs to be made. >> just write your congressman. >> make them realize it is a relevant issue andt that people are not going to accept that america has no means of dealing with this disease at all when they pride themselves on being on the forefront of scientific and technological advancement.

seth rogen, thank you. maybe they will show up for the next hearing. >> maybe. up next a big push across the country to legalize marijuana. projected to be a billion dollar industry in colorado. >> i should stay for this. >> is pot's economic boom worth the dollars. who would have known this was coming and it is here. this is "hardball," place for politics. icon. it's got 1080p video, three times zoom, and a twenty-megapixel sensor. it's got the brightest display, so i can see what i'm shooting -- even outdoors, and 4 mics that capture incredible sound. plus, it has apps like vine -- and free cloud storage. my new lumia icon is so great, even our wipeouts look amazing. ♪ honestly, i want to see you be brave ♪ ♪

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if you can't afford your medication, hey there, i just got my bill, and i see that it includes my fico® credit score. breaking news out of arizona where governor jan brewer is about to make a statement on a controversial bill. let's listen. >> deliberate consideration and especially to senate bill 1062. i call them like i see them despite the tears or the boos from the crowd. i took the necessary time to make the right decision. i met or spoke with our attorneys, lawmakers supporting and opposing this legislation. as governor i have asked questions and have listens. there is a specific and pressing

concern that exists in our state. and i have record to prove it. my agenda is to sign into law legislation that advances arizona. when i address the legislature among them are passing a responsible budget that continues arizona's economic comeback. from ceos, entrepreneurs to business surveys arizona ranks as one of the best states to grow or start a business. additionally, o[ inaudible ] instead, this is the first policy bill to come across my desk. senate bill 1062 does not address a specific or pressing concern related to religious liberty in arizona. i have not heard one example in arizona where a business owner's religious liberty has been

violated. the bill is broadly worded and can result in unintended and negative consequences. after weighing all of the arguments i have to the supporters of this legislation, i want you to know that i understand that long held norms about marriage and family are being challenged as never before. our society is undergoing many dramatic changes. however, i sincerely believe that senate bill 1062 has the potential to create more problems than it purports to solve. i could divide arizona in ways we could not even imagine. and no one would ever want. religious liberty is a core american and arizona value. so is -- senate bill 1062 into a

renewed search for greater respect and understanding among all arizonans and americans. thank you. >> that is arizona governor jan brewer announcing that she had vetoed the controversial bill senate bill 1062. you're seeing a live shot i believe from outside the state capitol. where protesters have amassed this piece of legislation which was relatively under the radar just a few days ago, when passed by both houses. has precipitated a massive backlash, and joining us now, nbc's mike taibbi joining us from phoenix, arizona, not tucson. mike, what are the governor's people saying about the decision she made? >> i think the most important thing, chris, that we've heard in the last three days while we were waiting for this decision, the least surprising decision

given all the words that we've heard all the advocacy we've heard was in an aide to the governor who said two days ago, this bill was never part of her agenda, making that clear, and that being the case, and her being term limited at this point has seemed very clear, given all the pressure that's come to bear in the last 48 hours that there was only one way she was going to make a decision, and she announced that a moment ago as you just heard. >> do you get the sense that the governor and the state political leaders were taken back by the breadth of opposition. you had everything from jpmorgan chase to major league baseball to the nfl to both republican senators. it has been swift and broad the backlash to this piece of legislation. >> yeah, as you know, you've watched arizona politics over the years, it's pretty tough and pretty republican. this is a very red state. we talked yesterday to the state majority whip who is one of the supporters and voters for this

bill. he was one of the three people who objected to what he did. one of the turncoat republicans who basically said we changed our mind. we made a mistake, we got to fix it. we spoke to him yesterday, he was almost shaken to the extent this issue became the word viral so fast and vehemently, it seemed clear there was no way to go forward with support for the bill. he said he hadn't thought about it in terms of an lgbt issue, only as an issue of religious freedom. if he thought that's what it was in the beginning, let's accept that's what he said. he saw the perception of the bill changed and changed his opinion as well. he changed the vote and asked the governor to do the same thing, to veto the bill and she did. >> one of the things i found striking over the last few days as a backlash this legislation has grown. has grown quite quickly. it's been hard to find people that were speaking up for it, and i'm curious what we're going to hear if you know from the supporters of that legislation

tonight. >> we found some -- >> last night we interviewed a couple dozen people in the church and they said to an individual, that what happened in oregon, what happened in the state of washington, where a baker refused to make a wedding cake, the flowers weren't provided, they all said, yeah, that's fine. they should have the right to do that, and we spoke to a guy today, a lawyer, a constitutional lawyer here. he had an interesting take on it, he said the governor should assign the bill, it would have proven the free market would meet out against one group or another. just because they want to do it, because they can do it. and the free market would weed in and out of the business. that was his point of view. he also said he didn't think the governor would sign it into law, that you would in fact veto it as you did. i'll give you an idea how clearly it was anticipated you would veto it. a couple of these protesters showed up before with preprinted signs saying, thank you, arizona is open for business now for everyone.

>> nbc's mike taibbi, thanks so much. joining me now by phone from arizona is democratic state senator who is a minority leader. senator, i'm assuming that you were given a heads up this is the way it's going to come do what's your reaction? >> well, definitely we are glad that the governor vetoed this devastating bill that would have marginalized members of our lgbt community and others. we want the nation and the world to know that sb-1062 is a mean spirited effort to legally sanction discrimination is not representative of our state. arizonans expect us to be working on things that matter to them like education, creating jobs and growing the economy. >> senator, let me ask you this, let me ask you this about what happened in the legislative debate. because what you've seen you can the bill got passed by both houses, it could cued up by the governor. a bunch of republicans seemed like, oh, i'm not quite sure

what we were passing. was there spirited debate in the process of this bill passing both houses? >> absolutely. there was spirited debates and also amendments provided by our democrats, to try to prevent this bill from moving forward, so again, we knew the ramifications of this bill and owes throws that say otherwise are false. this bill from day one, democrats have stood in opposition, along with business leaders, the lgbt community and religious leaders, it's time to move arizona forward and make sure that something like sb-1062 never happens again. it's time to show the world what arizona is really about. >> do you think this episode is a black eye for the state? you've been in the -- the state has been in the headlines for two or three days, we're taking a live statement from the governor, the amount of backlash from jpmorgan chase was remarkably broad in scope. do you think this episode has tarnished the state's reputation?

>> yes, i did. it is -- again, we were in the headlines, arizona was in the headlines for all the wrong reasons. we do believe this has tarnished our image. it's time to move arizona forward and making sure that sb-1062 never happens again. >> thank you, joining us now by phone is ann savage. well, the gay mafia, a powerful force, you guys turned this thing around pretty quickly. >> we couldn't prevent it from being passed in the first place, or percolating through the legislators in other states, but we pulled it out in the end with the help of the chamber of commerce, notorious focus of pro lgbt activism and liberalism in the past. >> you joke about that, but what was interesting to me in watching this episode play out is the -- this to me was a kind of new plot point in the trajectory of corporate america on lgbt issues.

you had a unified front from corporate america against this legislation. and it just shows me how much it is now the case that corporate america has alied itself on the side more or less fairly routinely now of gay equality. >> they've alied themselves on the side of discrimination, because discriminating against people of whatever stripe is bad for business. and it's important to emphasize again and again, that this bill didn't single out just lgbt people. it said anyone who could point to a religious belief could discriminate against anyone else for any reason. >> right. >> and it wasn't just gay people who were going do get it in the teeth if this became law. this was the road to chaos. cab drivers are refusing to drive you home because you are drinking alcohol. pharmacists refusing to sell women birth control, because they disapprove of birth control, selling it to single

women. in your private life, you can discriminate against whoever you care to, not have people over for dinner or attend a wedding. but using the public system, you have to do that even handedly and in a nondiscriminatory fashion. and that's the side that people came down on. people didn't just rush to the defense of lgbt people, but everyone. >> the pandora's box aspect of this was a huge one. you have legislation that is a solution in search of a problem. and i think actually jan brewer did a pretty good job of laying that case out in the beginning of her statement, being like, it's not like there's a huge problem in the state of arizona. there's not a bunch of religious folks who feel like they're being dragged into doing things against their will. i actually haven't heard of any complaints in our state, why are we passing this? >> you know what i would like to see? if there are lots of businesses out there who do not want to serve gays and lesbians, create

a website and say, we'll serve anyone, but we'd rather not have your business. >> i have to break in here. jan brewer has vetoed bill sb-1062. to refuse service to gays and lesbians. we'll be right back. breaking news out of arizona, just moments ago, where governor jan brewer has vetoed the most controversial bill in the country. sb-1062, a bill that would allow private businesses to discriminate against gays and lesbians in the name of religious freedom has been universally penned. it's come under intensifier from religious leaders who urged the governor to kill it. the governo