a debate on whether failure helps your small business. and this oscar weekend we look at the owners of the independent movie theaters battling the big change. that and more coming up next on "your business." small businesses are revitalizing the economy and

american express open is here to help. that's why we are proud to present "your business" on msnbc. hi, everyone. i'm j.j. ramberg. welcome to "your business." no matter what industry you're in, technology must be a part of it. and it will likely become a larger part if you intend to keep growing your company. so we headed out to startup grind in silicon valley to get up to speed on the latest tech trends you should know about. >> it was just like the year maybe if we got small people in the room together, something good would rap. >> derek anderson started startup grind four years ago. then it was a casual group of nine people talking about trends

in the industry. today, startup grind has grown to a network of more than 21,000 entrepreneurs attending 300 events in more than 60 countries. >> startup grind is all about helping the local entrepreneur realize they can do it in their city. they don't need to new york or silicon valley or london to be success. but once a year, they do invite everyone tote heart of the digital startup world, silicon valley. down the street from google headquarters they set up a series of fireside chats where entrepreneurs are given a chance to be inspired by the tech superstars whose step this hope to follow. a lot of the juice you learn from people is when -- they're actually not prepared. when you can translate vulnerability from someone who is like a tech celebrity to a room of people who are really dreaming and building, that that transmission is really inspiring. and motivating.

>> president and ce of tri net which provides payroll benefits and hr functions for small businesses share the differences between building a company you hope to sell and building one you hope to find independent eye. >> value is what a ceo perceives that his company is worth and month importantly what he is trying to accomplish or she. evaluation is what some outside person or investor or the market believes your company is worth. and there are two different thing in my mind. creating or enduring company allows you to think or act in a way that's appropriate for your market. and there's nothing with building a company to sell it. but there's something exciting about building a last that will last for a very long time. >> charles wade, founder of green throttle games better known as the popular game guitar hero talked about the how

companies test the markets they hope to disrupt. >> when were we making guitar hero, that was is.75 million for a console game, which is laughable small for that. now you can make mobile games for tens of thousands of dollars. that makes it much easier for a startup company to find a product fit by testing. in a single year you could only take one shot on goal. >> hardware was also a hot topic with sessions like fit bit and jawbone. the ceo shared how distribution is key to product success. >> when we started fit bit we were selling our product directly online at fit bit.com. that helped in several ways. one is we had a direct contact point with the customers. the second is, we got paid pretty quickly so a small

company, cash flow and fast access to cash is critically important. and obviously, the margins are the best directly. you're not giving up 20, 30, 40 on retailers. >> while the conference was focused on the digital world the speakers were clear about one concept. the core of what makes a good startup hasn't changed. >> a thousand years ago, people would do something that would solve their problems. that was true 50 years ago, it's true today and true in another 50. if you want people to change their habits and try something new, it's got to solve an important problem. if you do that and make people aware of it, people will buy your stuff. ♪ in our eight seasons on air, we've had many entrepreneurs say to us that failure is a good

thing. you're not failing if you're not trying and trying is what small businesses should be doing. is that really a rattle nalization? that the subject of today's shawl business reality check. les mckeown think that's a ridiculous concept. he says there's not an upset to failing. jessica heiren is found of stella & dot. >> les, i think going to start with you, because they are fast is a mantra that so many business entrepreneurs are talking about now. you say don't even think about failing. >> why say that the phrase say palpable nonsense. it's dreadable. it's part of the shenanigans of culture, that you get people say i want you to fail fast and fail often. it's nonence.

if you just kept failing fast, never succeeding, and somebody kept encouraging you to do that, well, they're investing in the wrong person. >> well, succeeding is the end goal. but jessica, to get there, do you have to fail? >> i think the big thing you don't want people to be so afraid of trying that they don't start at all. actually if you put out there that they cannot fail, you encourage people to be small-minded avoid risk and you won't get innovation and big ideas. i'm encouraging the idea that people need to iterate their ideas to get to success. i certainly agree with les, the last thing you're not wanting to encourage is sloppy shipping. >> no, the opposite of not saying fail fast and often isn't saying don't fail. if you fail, you fail. you learn from failure. that's the key thing. but if you put this dumb mantra, fail fast, fail often, in front

of a bunch of kids who are helicoptered by a parent, i'm not putting any money in that pot. >> les, you're from silicon valley and jessica you're from the west coast. the idea of failure in silicon valley is quite different than the traditional idea of failure. >> you know, j.j., i'm not sure that's true. when people are looking to hire, they're looking at people's track record. one of the key hiring mantra ises key to success. they've done something beautiful and made a grade product. what it doesn't mean, though, is that you're going to rule out someone who tried a bold idea. it didn't work first, then they iterated it and made it into something special. so i don't think failure is promoted as the end goal in a convalley. so it doesn't matter if you don't have a track record. so i agree with les that you do not want to promote this idea.

you just go for mediocrity. i do think that most people have to recognize, most people are governed by fear. you don't want to dampen out their quest for greatness. i'm aligned on one point. but when we encourage people to fail fast, we're really saying, listen, you got to look at the resulteds and you don't want to be wrong for long. when means when you get customer feedback, be open to ideas and iteration, and that is not the same as saying fail often and only fail. >> so, les, do you think there's a problem with the messaging? i think you would agree with jessica that we're all go together fail at some time. the whole ethos behind this fail fast is change it. learn from what you did and change it. so is there something wrong with the whole message of fail fast? >> yes there is. it's a subset of the whole concept of saying something

that's counterintuitive. if you have to fail to get there, that's fine. let's talk english. we don't have to come up with stuff that rhyme or falls off our tongues just a mature requirement where people were make mistakes but what we want to do is succeed. leading with this nonsence, it's dreadful waste of everybody's time. >> jessica, so nice four to be here. >> see you in person. >> and see you, les. >> the stars are watching the red carpets for hollywood's biggest night. the 86th annual academy awards will honor the best films of 2013 from historical drama s to 3d films. what you don't know is many of those are small business owners and entrepreneurs who have to be very creative to compete against

the big theater change. ♪ >> everybody's talking about the academy awards. so, i love it, it's just generating so much interest. >> i'm right in the front taking tickets. they tell me this one's good. this one stinks. i know pretty much. >> want the real scoop on the hottest movies? then you need to go to the front line where independent theater owners like these hear it directly from the fans like these. >> we have a lot of the same customers week after week. >> welcome to the small business side of the big-time hollywood glamour machine. >> the problem with being independent is you have to spend a lot of money to keep up with the chains. >> jesse and greg are two brothers who own and operate the atrium in staten island. it's one of the few independents remaining in new york city. >> independents, it's a dying breed. the old guys are looking to move on and there isn't too much new

blood out there. the big change put a dent in it. >> with only one location in a major market, see they themselves as small fish struggling to survive in a tank of whales. >> i believe what you want to know how does a small business, family-oriented business function among the regales, the amcs? >> he's right. part of it they study and upgrade the changes. >> we make sure the seats are new up-to-date seats. we change the music equipment. the sound equipment. we renovate the lobby. >> keeping up with this can result in some confusion for the customers which is exactly what they want because ticket buyers are thinking of their theater in the same league as the big chains. >> it's not necessarily one of those old time, you know, independent theaters. it's current. hence, they think we're part of the chains. >> maintaining state of the art

appearances isn't easy. for one thing, it takes money. >> you've got to go out and get rid of all of your equipment, hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions of dollars of equipment and throw it away. and put in a new digital projector for more hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of dollars. some of the smaller guys just can't afford it. it's not cost effective for them. >> that's how these two got into the movie business in the first place. the previous theater owner couldn't keep up after a big chain opened a complex nearby. >> when regal came and opened up, it took away a good portion of this business. probably 50% of the business. now, he struggled. he was an old operator. he want a young guy. >> but previous owner's threat to abandon the business was a disaster. >> he pretty much threw in the towel. i won't reinvest in the

operation anymore. once it's time to leave, just turn in the key, that was it. that's essentially what he did. >> that's where greg and jesse came in. they thought the problem of the theater wasn't the competitive market but the rundown of the facility which was turning off customers. they've been running things for seven years and upgrading slowly. like many business owners they say upgrades is one of the keys of the success. >> give back. give back to the business. that's the secret. >> but that's not all. the other theater success is hard work and attention. >> we do everything. i take ticket, most of the time. the stands, whatever needs to get done. >> greg made the connections with the movie companies. it took some time. they knew it was a good location. that's the whole thing. and we just started doing it ourselves. it pretty much worked out pretty good.

when we come back, it mistakes that small businesses need to avoid. and tips on getting customers to day on your website once they get there. plus, jim blasingame with coo customers and winning their loyalty. if i can impart one lesson to a new business owner, it would be one thing i've learned is my philosophy is real simple american express open forum is an on-line community, that helps our members connect and share ideas to make smart business decisions. if you mess up, fess up. be your partners best partner. we built it for our members, but it's open for everyone. there's not one way to do something. no details too small. american express open forum. this is what membership is. this is what membership does.

it was my job and my company's job to figure out a way to force the media to focus on footwear. we made a sandal that's been dubbed the million dollar sandal. we brought it into the suite at the academy awards. and a beautiful actress wore it. laura lana herring. it was in diamonds. it was incredible. that picture and story wept and the world. my name went with it, of course. let's catch up with three things you need to know about small business this week. alarming news about health care. the centers for medicare and mirror cade services 11 million workers who were employed by small businesses will see their health care rise under the affordable care act. 6 million would see rates

decrease. brugts winter weather is having an impact at small business cash registers. a survey by the? ? say 1 in 3 small businesses say winter storms have forced them to lower their first quarter sales. they say the snow and cold caused delivery delays and kept customers at home. and the proof that being a small business owner is suddenly hot. at new york's annual toy fair, mattel unveiled the new entrepreneur barbie. she wears a pink dress and carries a smartphone and tablet. les mckeown is back with us. and tonya meting. >> let's go to someone who wants to change the way things are done in their industry. >> i have a law firm looking to

disrupt the legal practice area with a fixed model. how can i use social media to help better attract customers as well as promoting my brand? >> interesting. well, you talk about social media, so you can talk about that. this is a change in the way the legal press usually goes and not one that a lot of people would welcome. >> sure. based on the idea, what i'm hearing you want to bring transparency and social media is a perfect way to establish that. i would suggest, other than talking about the effort itself, i would say putting out content that's going to be valuable. and establishing that as a trusting source of a source for anyone out there looking. social media say perfect way to understand hue has these questions and receive them. >> as a law firm, you have an endless amount of concept,

right, les? >> sure, but law firms are behind the curve with social media. i really like the idea to engay with the audiences. i've tamped down expectations as far as building a pipeline. good for building it. definitely a hygiene factor and gives more people, who are probably because they're going to give fixed fee offering are probably going to be a little more innovative but don't think it's going to build a massive pipeline of new business. >> it's clearly a modern way of thinking. so is matches the idea of thinking of people in social media. >> social media is not an atm. you can't treat it like a cash machine. it's really all about establishing interest and making sure you put that consent out there first. >> let's go to the next one about hiring new employees. >> i'd love to ask experts about how to mass-manage hiring at the time of large growth. so that you're efficiently

handling that process while still managing that business during that period of growth? >> it's a great idea, right? if youed me a lot of people, you may end up hiring a bunch of bad people. people are aren't good people. how do it? >> i think one of the stations of the cross is getting away from hiring from the gut. you know, a couple attitudes you think you mentor and coach these people and get their skill deficits up. there comes a point where i suspect that's where the viewer is. the business gets to a sign where you're not personally going to work with these people. and i'd say be very clear of what the must haves are and what do on the jobs. get three people do the interview. but move away from hiring with

your gut. that's a point that all good companies. that's tough for another move, but it's vital for it. >> and how do you keep yourself because the need is so great that bring people in the office and just put, you know, people in seats to keep yourself from hiring people who aren't right simply because you need them. >> sure. that's something that we've actually just experienced. we've gone through signature growth. there are a couple of tips, i would say. one is that you can compromise on everything almost shared values. you can sometimes be blinded by one person because they're a wonderful speaker but generally someone else won't have your blind spot. so that's critical. another thing that's been successful for us it working with people in contract bases to start up. particularly, when you need the help very quickly, you can see how fast when people are going to show up and what attitude energy. going to bring and their

>> the idea of shared values. next week, we actually have a piece about how this company had to hire a lot. has a really strong culture which makes it much easier. let's go to the last question. >> people who come to our website who immediately leave. i'm trying to understand what is the behavior behind that. what are we missing that's not allowing them to continue to engage on our website? >> all right. tania. >> sure, if somebody has come to your site whether it's by a search or a link. that has drawn them to find more content. they're a riving on their site and they're not getting it. the first thing you need to understand what is it that brought them to the site. how can you make sure you position that content front and center. generally, people will arrive,

if they don't immediately find what their looking for. then they'll turn away. that's exactly what's happening.

two, avoiding the home office deduction. there's no reason not to take it. if you do qualify, you can right off a percentage of your home expenses including rent, utilities, and insurance costs. three, mixing equipment and supplies. things that you use during the year like printer paper and pens count as supplies. while equipment is usually typical of higher value items that will last longer than a year, like computers or printers. filing these expenses incorrect ly can lead to losing out on the deduction. four, choosing the wrong legal entity. your company struck daughtture

how much you pay. talk to a tax adviser or cpa. five, mixing personal and business expenses. avoid trouble by establishing a company account from the start and a maintain separate records the. it if you primarily use gis mail, we can turn your in box into a tool. organizing your client relationships right from gmail. stay on top of your sales, group e-mail from the same customers, and schedule e-mails to send later without having to switch back and forth between gmail and a different system. you can share selective parts of your inbox with your team and track work flow. our next guest says that customers are changing the way that business is getting done. he sees a massive shift in customer expectations. and businesses are going to have to be extremely relevant in order to survive. here to talk about different

ways in had which you can meet your customers' growing expectations is our good friend, creator and host of the weekday radio program the small business advocate show, and the author of the new book "the age of the customer: prepare are for the moment of relevance." great to see you, jim. >> hi, j.j. good to see you again, too. >> so this is a shift. you say it used to be the age of the seller. you created companies basically in order to create a customer. >> for 10,000 years the seller had control of the relationship between the customer. that's changed. >> okay. so what made it change and how do we prepare for that change? >> 1993 you and i could go on the internet for the first time. everything changed from that moment on. it's been 20 years, right? but so many businesseses -- you think 20 years everybody should know this by now, companies should be ready to go. they should be prepared to meet customer expectations. big companies, little companies, are still holding on to those old dominant paradigm ways of doing business. >> so give me an example of something we would have done in the age of the seller we can no

longer do today in the age of the customer? >> you can no longer presume that if a customer comes in and does business with you that they're just going to come back because they now know you. you know about the clutter, all the stuff out there in the way. you have to follow them home. if you find someone, if someone meets you and they say, hey, i like your stuff, see you, well, you can't presume they're going to come back. can i follow you home, j.j.? can i send you an e-mail? do you mind if i text you? what do you like? you have to think of your website, your website and your storefront is no longer a destination. it's more of a distribution center. >> okay, so we talk about that a lot, engaging with your customer and creating a relationship with your customer. what else does it mean to be in the age of the customer? what el what else do you have to do? >> having a competitive advantage was the holy grail. that was the corner of the realm, right? price, product, service, all that kind of thing.

well, today you may never get to tell them about that stuff or show them about that stuff before they've already ruled you in or out. so how do you look -- when they try to find you the first time, when they try to find you when you don't even know they exist like on mobile phone, right? smartphone, or they're searching for something, wherever they may be. if you don't present yourself the right the way when they first try to find you before you even know they exist in a way that's relevant to them, then you may never get a chance to even know they exist. and so all the competitive stuff you do doesn't matter. >> report. well, jim, congratulations again on your new book. thank you so much for stopping by. >> good to see you again. >> you, too. >> thanks so much for joining us today. we he hope you learned a thing or two. if you want to catch any of the segments again you can find them on our website. it's openforum.com/yourbusiness. we've also posted some web exclusive content with more information to help your business grow.

we're on twitter as well. it's @msnbcyourbis. don't forget to become a fan of the show on facebook. next week, a babysitting service that bends over backwards to support its artist employees. >> our clients obviously are super important but in a lot of ways i think that our sitters are equally important if not more important. without great caregivers, i can't provide anything to my clients to begin with. >> how creating a strong company culture translates into good business. until then, i'm j.j. ramberg and, remember, we make your business our business. if i can impart one lesson to a new business owner, it would be one thing i've learned is my philosophy is real simple american express open forum is an on-line community, that helps our members connect and share ideas to make smart business decisions. if you mess up, fess up. be your partners best partner.

we built it for our members, but it's open for everyone. there's not one way to do something. no details too small. american express open forum. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. obama and putin's it tough talk over the crisis in cripple yeah. crimea. we have a report on where the chris christie is headed. you'll want to stick around for that late they are morning. we begin with the crisis in ukraine and president obama's 90-minute phone call with russian president vladimir putin late yesterday. that conversation president obama told president putin that the u.s. may have to boycott the upcomi g