taking care of billionaires that have already been blessed? thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. jamboree of the wild. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this. do you remember the bar scene in "star wars" with all the wild-eyed creatures from every part of the solar system? today in washington the whole tapestry of weirdness was reenacted at the annual convention of cpac. conservative doesn't quite capture this out of this world jamboree. at cpac, it's the far-out sharing space with the further out, coming up with the usual

suspects, cruz and paul and rubio and bobby jindal while gassing up with the craziest bunch of ideas since rick oops perry couldn't remember the list of government agencies he wanted to kill, and ended up yelling, as i said, oops. the leader of this pack today was ted cruz, the joe mccarthy imitator who belted out a plan to kill the irs, a plan which the crowd applauded wildly, unaware of the small detail that ted's plan would kill the very system of tax write-offs that finances hapgs like this cpac convention in the first place. it turns out that just about every organization in the crazy room today, the tea party patriots, the american conservative union, et cetera, et cetera, all benefit the tax write-offs and extensions courtesy of today's irs system. the brilliant ted cruz promised those blithely unknowing folks that he could simply abolish. having trashed the right wing

group's financial base, cruz lit up the room by trashing nearly every republican nominee of the last quarter century. he said they lacked principle which he made clear abolishing not just the irs, but all kinds of right wing good east like any regulation of wall street and any health care program. nothing, nothing must be done either to stand in the way of the rich or stand up for americans who are struggling today. it was pure koch brothers populism being sold out there today. words and phrases crafted to heat up the peanut gallery, translating to cold cash for the bill they'res who approved the script. the former governor of pennsylvania and john fiore. it's amazing how they fall for stuff put together by the richest people. if you need to us to paint you a picture of what this outing was all about, look at how senator mitch mcconnell worked the crowd by taking the stage bearing arms. showing off a huge shotgun.

is this guy desperate or what? well, the crowd was there for red meat, and cruz didn't disappoint, of course, delivering a 20-minute battle cry whose theme was, as i mentioned earlier, let's torch the place. here is a highlight reel of cruz essentially eviscerating everything in washington. >> there is a corrupt and interlocking system of lobbyists and lawyers that are all -- and consultants that are suckling off washington. we need to abolish the irs. we need to repeal dodd/frank. we need to audit the federal reserve. we need to repeal every single word of obamacare. if you come to washington and serve in congress, there should be a life-time ban on lobbying. we need to pass a strong constitutional amendment that puts into law term limits. >> you know, governor, i was listening today and i was thinking about all these abolitions he wants to

accomplish. one of them is the irs. yet every organization in that room benefits from a specific tax exemption or a deduction. they only exist because the government basically subsidizes them. and here he is saying i want to get rid of all that stuff. >> sure. and he is attacking a lot of huge republican corporations that give tons of money to the party as well who exist on their subsidies. the problem with ted cruz's approach, chris, and you know this very well, is when you feed red meat to the base like, this you may wind up getting the nomination, because it's the base voters, those red meat voters who carry the day. but you make it impossible to contend seriously for the presidency in the fall. you campaign in a way that helps you win the nomination, but cripples you in an attempt to win the general election. >> what do you think of, that john? do you think it does anything but get in the hard right

position at the rail? the trouble with doing that you become a fringe candidate even in the primary process. >> first of all, i am not a big fan of ted cruz, you know that. but i think on the political stuff, political reform stuff, it's very popular because washington is very unpopular. so i think some of the things he is talking about like banning lobbyists, getting rid of the irs, being the extremist on these things, sometimes when you're so extreme in the defense of liberty -- >> what does it mean -- what does it mean -- i know everybody out there who is a real yahoo politically. not everybody is a yahoo on the right. the argument is let's get rid of the irs whom. likes the irs, this time of year especially? who likes sit do you think and figuring out this stuff? who likes being a chump if they don't grab every exemption? and the problem is it's just pure bs. you can't get rid of the irs unless you get rid of the military, get rid of social security, get rid of everything we have in this country. how else can we raise the taxes? what does he mean? >> it's create rhetoric. >> the peanut gallery, what do they think he means?

>> it's not a practical speech. >> what do they mean when they applaud? >> it doesn't mean anything. >> ha! what about going after the federal reserve. what does that mean? audit the federal reserve. what does that mean? >> i think there is great mistrust with the federal reserve. >> why? >> out in the country they think the dollar is weakening and they blame the federal reserve. for the base people -- >> the base people are in 401(k)s and have seen their stock market go double because of the fed. >> listen, i agree with you on the policy. on the politics, the federal reserve is extraordinarily unpopular. >> so the full mooners are being played to here. >> of course they are. >> governor, here is a guy, fiore horse, is a smart guy admitting that this red meat is just bs. let's get rid of the government. let's get rid of the irs. let's get rid of the federal reserve, any regulation on wall street and go back to the rich get a lot richer and everybody else goes where? that sells, though. it's like every time you say more capital punishment, this

crowd applauds. fry them. they applaud. they do. >> it sells to this crowd. but do you think the american people want wall street after what happened six years ago? you think they want wall street unregulated again? of course not. the american people don't want that. do you think getting rid of the irs means is we're going to have a flat tax. do you think the american people want billionaires paying the same rate as people who earn $32,000? of course not. >> why -- i've been to these. i've probably sneaked by the cpac convention this week and bear baiting because they'll yell at me. you know who goes there? mostly guys, mostly guys in their late 20s, early 30s. they're just intellectuals. they're not rich. they may 30 a year if they're lucky. they're just regular people. they all buy into let's get rid of dodd/frank. why do they benefit from any of this stuff, this crazy right wing economic agenda? i don't see why regular people

buy into what the koch brothers' ambition. >> because they're angry, and they react to red meat. angry people react to red meat. they don't think. >> i don't think it has anything -- >> but why do they cheer? getting rid of dodd/frank. could you think it affects the lives of anybody in that room? oy, they don't like barney frank. okay. >> the fact is ted cruz had a smart line at the beginning. he said all of you are probably going to get audited by the irs for coming to this convention. >> really? >> feed the paranoia here. >> the sirs very unpopular with this crowd. you know that and that's why he said it. >> these guys don't get audited. they get a regular salary most of them. this is not about their lives. why is the rabble so easily roused? >> because ted cruz, he gave a great speech there is this great sense that the irs has investigated all these tea party groups there is a hearing yesterday trying to drive this story. >> okay.

let's cruz do some of the talking. he amped up his battle cry about party purity he calls it. he took aim at the republican party for not being principled. let's listen. >> and they say if you stand for principle, you lose elections. the way to do it, the smart way, the washington way is don't stand against obamacare, don't stand against the debt ceiling, don't stand against nothing. i want to tell you something that is a false dichotomy. [ applause ] you want to lose elections, stand for nothing. and of course all of us remember president dole. and president mccain, and president romney. those are good men. they're decent men. but when you don't stand and draw a clear distinction, when you don't stand for principle, democrats celebrate. >> you know, he is acting, governor, like we have all forgotten the last several

republican nominees. a great guy, bob dole, leaned so far right in '96 against bill clinton, he was out there selling the fact that he was a supply-sider, which he never was. mitt romney killed himself by going so far right. mccain humiliated himself to a slightly lesser extent by leaning over to the far right to get the nomination. and that guy cruz comes along and said all these guys are somehow, they were heretics or something. no, they weren't. they bowed to the right wing line. and i believe that's why they got in trouble in the general. i don't know where his history comes from. they weren't moderates. >> i think there is no question about that. if mitt romney had run as the governor of massachusetts, having done what he did, having gotten democrats to go along with a lot of his programs, i think he would be president of the united states today. he lost because he sold out in the primaries to win the primaries. he might have won them anyway. but he sold out by moving so far to the right that it was impossible to move back to get enough americans to put him over the top. >> you know, i thought that too when i was watching that movie,

the movie -- i thought that's what he was thinking. why didn't i go down the right way. that's me. i blew it by trying to be somebody else. there is nothing worse than losing when you're trying to be somebody else. >> chris, my question to ted cruz is, they were the most moderate ones in the campaigns. but they won because there wasn't a conservative challenge that could meet credibility test. and that's the problem for the conservatives. they got to have credible candidates that can beat the more moderate. >> the nominee of your party? >> no, i don't think it will be ted cruz. >> how far right can he go? can he go as far as rubio and still win the general? >> yeah. >> you think he can beat hillary? >> yes. >> rand paul can beat hillary? >> he's got some interesting ideas. i don't think he can get the money, though. >> bobby jindal? >> i don't think jindal. >> so the only guys who can beat hillary are rubio -- >> i think rubio, i think kasich could, chris christie could. >> you're just playing to me. he is playing to me because he

knows i like kasich and jeb bush. how far away can they get away with. even challenger. five or seven votes from her. >> i think they've got to be very care to feel divorce themselves from a lot of the crazy social issues that are going on and that are happening with state legislatures, just ripping. you know, the war on women is a real war. you can see all the things that are happening in state legislatures. you've got to divorce yourself from some of that or you're dead in the water. i think senator rubio's biggest problem is he flip-flopped on immigration. and, you know, the way to beat hillary clinton is to get significant portion of the latino vote. and i think he lost it when he flip-flopped on his own bill. >> governor, you're going to -- >> governor -- i'm sorry, i got to break in. you're going love what we're going to do later in the show. we're going to show you the potential vote for hillary clinton is up to 66% of people that conceive voting for her.

i think a lot of suburban women here, especially and men who like women in the right way, which is always, of course, but like him in the right way politically supporting this thing. i think it's going to be fascinating to see that she has a 66-point potential ceiling. i've never seen a candidate like that. thank you, governor rendell and thank you john feehery doing a good job defending the center right. coming up, fallout. recall the darrell issa hearing yesterday. watch this. >> if you will sit down and allow me to ask a question. i am a member of the congress of the united states of america. i am tired of this. >> well -- >> we have -- you represent 700,000 people. you cannot just have a one-sided investigation. >> wow. well, that fight has just entered round two today. the head of the congressional black caucus called on speaker boehner to strip issa there of his committee chairmanship.

boehner, of course has refused. but the fight goes on. plus, how the neo cons learned to hate the president of the united states and love a former soviet kgb officer. guess who? they praise the erratic vladimir putin as a way to bash president obama. and it's said democrats fall in love, while voters do seem ready for hillary, they're falling in love there, there is nothing close to a front-runner on the gop side. it's nobody's turn. and this is going to be a loft fun. the republicans don't have anybody whose turn it is. finally, take a close look at this picture from president reagan's moscow visit back in '88. who is that with the camera on the left there. could bit vladimir putin with more hair? this is "hardball," the place for politics. mine was earned in korea in 1953.

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welcome back to "hardball." house democrats are pushing john boehner to remove congressman darrell issa as chairman of the oversight committee. yesterday, of course, issa staged an effort to berate former irs official lois lerner. and when elijah cummings, the ranking democrat on the committee tried to speak, issa cut off his microphone. >> i have a question. if you will sit down and allow me to ask a question, i am a member of the congress of the united states of america. i am tired of this. >> well -- >> we have -- you represent

700,000 people. you cannot just have a one-sided investigation. it is absolutely something wrong with that, and there it's absolutely unamerican. >> hear hear. >> we had a hearing that is adjourned. i gave you an opportunity to ask you question. >> i do have a question. >> i gave you -- >> senator, what are you hiding? >> wow. what reminded me of this famous exchange over a microphone back in 1980 when then presidential candidate ronald reagan was involved. >> will the sound man please turn reagan's mic off? >> you turn my microphone -- >> i am have paid for this microphone. >> but the spectacle in congress yesterday did not sit well with members of the congressional

black caucus. today they stood in unison on the house floor condemning issa's behavior, and sent a letter to speaker boehner urging him to remove issa as chairman. cbc chairwoman marcia fudge, a democrat from ohio said, quote, congressman darrell issa of california abused his authority, and therefore must be reprimanded to ensure the digit of the house of representatives is preserved. in fact, we urge to take prompt action to maintain the integrity of this body and remove mr. issa as chair of the oversight and government reform committee immediately. well, boehner responded by declaring his support for issa. and the house then voted 211 to 186 to table the resolution followed by democrats to reprimand chairman issa. donna edwards is a democrat from maryland and a member of the congressional black caucus, and ryan grim is washington bureau chief for "the huffington post." you know, i was watching that yesterday. when i had on congressman cummings, who is such a dignified fellow who i really

thinking hated to get agitated like that. is it a matter of indignity? he said no. he didn't want to play it that way. he said it was a rejection of the rights on that committee. something happened overnight. this became a black caucus committee. tell me how that developed. >> it became an issue for the entire democratic caucus. i think what mr. cummings was saying and what we feel as members of the black caucus was there was dignity displayed not just to elijah cummings, but to all of us as minorities. we are governed by a set of rules in the house. darrell issa, this is the last in a long list of ways in which darrell issa has demonstrated disrespect for the ranking member and for minority rights on that committee. and when i watched it to too, not only was i offended for mr. cummings, but i was offended for the house, for the fact that we have to be able to govern ourselves with a set of rules that we all follow. and the complaint that we lodged on the floor today was saying

that, in fact, those rules were not followed. and in order to maintain the respect of the institution, that's the reason that we have to deal in the leadership needs to deal effectively with mr. issa. >> when you said there was a lack of dignity given to the minority, did you mean capital m or lower case m? do you mean racially or just the members of the democratic party in house? >> no, i mean the members of the democratic party. we set out with a set of rules all of us understand as house members with respect to conduct of these committees. chairman issa took to the bench. he had his piece, and then he refused to acknowledge the minority that is against the rules and practice of the house. and so it's an indignity to the institution and to all of us. and if we can't depend on the rules governing our behavior, then we're no better than any of these other emerging governments and democracies that are

building themselves. this is really an indignity to the house and to our minority rules. and one day the republicans are going to be in the minority, and when they were, we didn't treat them like that. where mr. cummings, the chairman as he would be if we were in the majority, mr. issa would not have been treated like that. and that is why it's incumbent on speaker boehner to really have some respect for the institution to deal with this. because one day they will be in the minority. and i dare say they wouldn't want to be treated like mr. cummings was treated just yesterday. >> two questions. one is the show trial aspect of this. that there was really a show-and-tell. lois lerner who is the bureaucrat over there, they knew she was going to go with the fifth. but he made her repeat over and over again i'm taking the fifth, which i thought was theater. the other question is this comity. there is a sense, even in a lot of fighting up there, there is a sense that you have common rules

and respects or things don't work. >> and there is a rule on how you adjourn a committee. this might seem technical to people from the outside, but as you know, it's not. the rule is you need some unanimous consent or you vote to adjourn a committee. that's how it's done, and that creates consent. we have brought this committee in together. we're going to disagree during this time. we're going to adjourn it together and go on and hold our duelling press conferences. he didn't do that. in the middle of elijah cummings speaking, he didn't like the direction that the speech was going. i guess he thought he was giving a speech rather than a question. >> he was giving a speech. to be fair, he had a point to make. >> but it's not up to the chairman. >> why did he think it was better to put on that scene there of looking like a dictator rather than letting mr. cummings make his point. it will be in the paper the next day, but you can live with it. >> his brand at this point is standing up to democrats. >> i see. >> standing up to the president is the way that he has cast a national figure. he is a huge fundraiser. second biggest fundraiser in the

house. he was just in new hampshire. so he has become a national figure this way. so this is an extension of standing up to democrats. >> you know, it strikes me, congresswoman, that darrell issa wanted to be a u.s. senator. spent a ton of money, over $20 million in a fruitless campaign out there. knew he would never get to be a senator. so decided he is going to be a hotshot house member. he is going to be an investigator, that kind of thing. make your name through exposing things. the problem is i've watched this and i'm open to it. i couldn't find an example of any white house involvement with the irs mess there may be a mess over there. there may be a lack of clarity or consistency in figuring out which organizations deserve tax statuses. but i've never seen anybody in the white house as making a phone all over there even. your thoughts. >> chris, you pointed to the substance here. this is the reason it was important. in addition to mr. issa having his say for the ranking member for mr. cummings to be able to raise exactly those points. i mean, there have been time and time again where mr. issa has

effectively cut off the participation of the minority because he doesn't want to hear the fact that there is no there there in this so-called scandal. >> i know. >> and mr. cummings was trying to raise that look, i think that they're not only are there violations of the rules in the house, but there actually may be ethical violations as well. and mr. issa needs to be held to account. and if the leadership doesn't do it, then we have to find some way in our process which will allow those issues to be raised. pardon me? >> will the cbc stay on this case and continue to push for his removal as chairman? >> well, i think that we have to there has to be an account here. otherwise, all of the rules are just completely up in the air. what other committee chairman is going to decide that they want to effectively shut down the minority voice? and why does darrell issa get to decide how elijah cummings uses his time that is legitimately his during these proceedings? this is a really important matter, and it really goes to

the heart of how we have minority participation in these proceedings and in the congress. >> congresswoman donna edwards of maryland, you are always welcome here at "hardball." we love having you on. i mean that ryan grim, thank you so much. you're the congressman from staten island, aren't you? i'm just kidding. up next, this is really funny coming up. it may well will be real. it's president reagan in moscow in '88. look at the man behind the young boy on the far left with the blond hair. is that future russian president vladimir putin? there is reason to believe it might be. we'll be right back. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

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[ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ she can print amazing things, right from her computer. [ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] she makes trains that are friends with trees. ♪ my mom works at ge. ♪ time for the sideshow. well, the "washington post," as i said picked up an interesting story about a 1988 photograph of president reagan in moscow, which has been circulating

lately online. the photograph shows reagan about to shake hands with a young boy. look closely at the guy with the camera to the left of the kid there. the article points out that that man looks a lot like a young vladimir putin who was an officer in the kgb at the time. so we dug through the footage of that day in 1988 to see if that was caught on video, and indeed it was. looking on as gorbachev and reagan take questions from soviet citizens in red square. while the footage doesn't shed any new light on the identity of the man with the camera, the now famous still photograph was taken by pete souza, the official photographer of the obama white house who also served under president reagan. here is what souza had to say about the trip and the photograph on npr back in 2009. >> i remember seeing a secret service agent. i said i can't believe these tourists and soviet union are asking these pointed questions. and the secret service agent said to me, oh, these are all

kgb families. now, what is really interesting is i have a picture in my reagan book. and off to the left is one of these tourists with a camera around his shoulder. and it's been pointed out to me and verified that that was putin. >> wow. today, however, the white house told us that souza the photographer can't be sure it's putin. well, we'll find out, won't we? doesn't our intelligence agencies have facial id capability? isn't it a matter of science now? let's check it out, guys. the far right in this country has fallen in love really with vladimir putin. he is the kind of leader they like. all as a way to criticize president obama of course by way of comparison. this is "hardball," the place for politics. emily's just starting out... and on a budget.

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hey there, i'm veronica de

la cruz. here is what is happening. president obama spoke with russian president vladimir putin today for an hour about resolving the crisis over ukraine diplomatically. he proposed direct talks between moscow and kiev's new government as well as the return of russian troops to their bases. meanwhile, the president signed an executive order slapping visa restrictions and economic sanctions on those responsible for russia's actions in ukraine. he says the measures will impose a cost for the recent incursion. i'm veronica de la cruz. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." well, the conservative political action conference going on right now, cpac, convened today in the midst of our country's serious crisis with russia. and of course, speakers offered their own reasonable -- that's sarcasm -- critiques of the president's foreign policy and counter proposals. of course that's all nonsense.

let's watch. >> having witnessed the event abroad these last several days, as we see the president of russia invade a neighboring country while our president wants to downsize our military. president carter, i want to issue a sincere apology. it is no longer fair to say he was the worst president of this great country in my lifetime. president obama has proven me wrong. >> the president loves to point to ronald reagan and say, well, reagan talked to russia. reagan talked to the soviet union. why can't we talk to iran? but there is a difference. reagan dealt with the soviet union because they had nuclear weapons and he wanted peace, but he never accepted the soviet union. >> our biggest national security crisis is barack obama. we're going to get what we see today in the ukraine where vladimir putin has a strategy and obama has nothing, where putin has a growing defense budget, and ours is shrinking. we do not accept an american president who is weak and indecisive and apologetic about

our country. >> well, add bobby jindal, marco rubio to hit president obama for being weak. in fact that. >> love to compare our weak president to vladimir putin, who by comparison they say they almost seem to admire. ted cruz wrote that, quote, it is almost as if the russians have a renowned grand master playing chess and the united states is playing checkers. meanwhile, it was rudy giuliani who just hates how president obama has to think about things before he makes decisions. >> putin decides what he wants to do and he does it in half a day. he makes a decision and he executes it, quickly. then everybody reacts. that's what's called a leader. president obama got to think about it, he's got to go over it again. he's got to talk to more people about it. >> and; of course, they're joined by sarah palin, who finds the presidencies -- well, the president's potency lacking. really. >> the perception of him and his

potency across the world is one of such weakness. and, you know, look, people are look at putin as one who wrestles bears and drills for oil. they look at our president as one who wears mom jeans and equivocates and bloviates. >> you can't match that so what is behind this strange dynamic on to the right, this need to compare president obama and president putin's toughness as the president's weakness anyway? the daily beast's michael tomasky joins us. the neo cons on some emotional leveller from vladimir putin. he is rugged. he goes shirtless. he knows his way around a kalishnakov. ever time they carry about president obama's weakness, they're also implying he's not half the man putin. i love that word putin. and in the neo con world, it always comes down to who is the manlier man.

joan walsh, veteran at large for salon and msnbc analyst. i'll start with joan. this thing, i've been following the neo cons for so many years. they love references to muscularity and weakness. i guess you to v to be female to pull the potency argument out, but she pulled it out of her bag. it gets so personal. why does it have to go into manliness? >> it's so creepy. it's so creepy. sarah palin -- >> well, there that is the new word, creepy. maybe you're right. >> she is the worst. but they're all terrible. these are the people who would have us at war with iran right now. we would be talking what to do with our war in iran if they run the world, chris. you know this. this goes back to old republican notions of democrats as soft and weak, soft on communism, soft on hippies, soft on anti-war protesters, whatever. and it's a really outdated script, obviously, when you have the president who got bin laden, who's left thinks he is too hawkish on national security

issues, who did let sanctions work and who has let diplomacy work in iran, but who has been very tough. and that fetishization. you know, the daily caller actually ran an urgent news poll tonight that is tucker carlson saying asking if people thought putin or obama was a better president. they're talking about this at cpac. it's unbelievable. >> oh my god. >> just going through the list as you make this point, joan, i'm going to follow up on that. jindal, rubio, boltin, which one had military service? this talk about muscularity and manliness is metaphor. just an attitude. not about a reality. >> just an attitude and a presentation. and adding to people who didn't fight in any war, george bush, dick cheney. we can go on and on that list. >> how about being in one schoolyard fight in your life. at least when somebody punch you'd in the teeth.

at least blooded. i don't think so. maybe rudy. maybe rudy. he might have been in a fight. but this idea, back to your point, finish it out. why do they do it? >> that's how they see the world, you know. and that's who they want to win. they see the world in these black and white terms, these tough guy versus weak guy terms and they do prefer putin to obama. >> so george w. bush is george foreman. your thoughts, joan. by their definition, going into iraq was the ballsiest thing in history. my god, this shows he is the guy, right? i shouldn't say ballsy, but i did. >> you did. but what is amazing here is actually, they don't have anything to offer. i thought john boltin the other night with greta van susteren. it's sort of like obama care. they have nothing to replace it with. >> you're right. nothing but talk. thank you, michael tomasky. great writing. joan, as always, great to have you on. up next, when it comes to picking a president, democrats

usually fall in love while republicans fall in line. not this time. hillary clinton is going like gangbusters while the right, they don't even have a who's turn it is. they don't like it when there is not a who's turn. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. ar that beat? campbell's healthy request soup lets you hear it in your heart. [ basketball bouncing ] heart healthy. [ m'm... ] great taste. [ tapping ] sounds good. campbell's healthy request. m'm! m'm! good.® if your denture moves, it can irritate your gums. try fixodent plus gum care. it helps stop denture movement and prevents gum irritation. fixodent. and forget it. cozy or cool? "meow" or "woof"? exactly the way you want it ... until boom, it's bedtime! your mattress is a battleground of thwarted desire. enter the all-new sleep number classic series. designed to let couples sleep together in individualized comfort. starting at just $699.99 for a queen mattress. he's the softy. his sleep number setting is 35. you're the rock, at 60. and snoring?

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voters say they're ready for hillary clinton. republicans, they're just not ready. that's next when "hardball" returns. people don't have to think about where their electricity comes from. they flip the switch-- and the light comes on. it's our job to make sure that it does.

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you make commitments. and when you can't live up to them, you own up, and make it right. some people think the kind of accountability that thrives on so many streets in this country has gone missing in the places where it's needed most. but i know you'll still find it when you know where to look. welcome back to "hardball." hillary clinton, should she decide to run for president, is in a league of her own out there according to a new "washington post"-abc poll out today. the poll asked the same question about hillary clinton and nine republican potential nominees. would you definitely vote for or consider voting for that candidate? well, for secretary clinton, two-thirds of america say yes. 66%. that's the ceiling that she could get. it's that many people might vote for her. it dwarfs everyone else on the

republican side. the ceiling for republicans should definitely vote for or consider voting for the poll's top tier of republicans is 47%, less than a majority. that's delivered by rand paul and chris christie. they get 47% possible votes. and filling out the republican field in the lower tiers marco rubio, jeb bush, rick kerry, ted cruz and final all with lower possibilities. as "the washington post" characterizes it, the contest is wide open as any in the modern era. mike halperin, both msnbc political analysts and co-authors of "double down." since you guys think so big about all this, what does it mean when you see a spread like this when hillary has a potential vote. i guess this is a lot of moderate suburban women included. up to 66% of people say when asked say yeah, coy vote for

her. the other group, your thoughts? >> she has had an incredibly productive last four years, or four years she was in the administration. she was outside politics. and that certainly helps your ability to appeal to a nonpartisan or centrist voters who are not on one side or the other. right now her image is kind of above politics. and the other thing she has an advantage is universal name recognition there is no one who doesn't have an opinion of her. and right now she -- those who do have opinions of her, she is at the highest standing she has ever been, and she is probably at the highest standing she ever will be. as she gets back into the mud of politics, those numbers are inevitably going to down, at least a little bit. yeah, we saw that with ted kennedy. let me ask you about -- the old jack germond, the old expert used to say these early polls don't mean anything. is that your view? or do you hold there is something of use there in figuring this whole thing out, the polls we're seeing now? >> i don't want to say that walt

disney and jeff bezos wasted money on that, but he does name idea. it does show republicans don't have a strong front-runner. they've always had a strong tha electoral college is what matters. and while hillary clinton looks strong in a lot of ways i don't think she's a big breakthrough on the electoral college. the bad news for them is they cannot win with nobody. and right now, i think that poll overstates the strength of the republican field to some extent. yes, they're not well known, but none of them have much time. this thing is going to be engaged in the blink of an eye. hillary clinton for all her flaws as a candidate, all the challenges she faces, she's ready to do this, ready to put a team together and go out on the playing field. these republicans do not have much time to find one, two, who can be gladiators and go up against her again assuming she runs. >> let me go back to john on that question. is this country so an reasgry te willing to go with a surprise, someone they don't know who is tested, like barack obama.

go with a surprise. we don't know if you're tested but would rather have you than somebody who is already there. are they that angry? >> first you have the republican nomination process, chris, which as you know has traditionally favored front-runners. there really isn't one. so the question is, does this environment favor someone who's got kind of a surprise candidate? it would go against all the republican history that we know about. you know, in 2012, the republican party was really angry. and yet, and had a lot of chaos in its field. yet ended up with the safest candidate they could pick in mitt romney. i don't think the prub can party or country is angrier than it was two, three years ago. >> mark, i like when you say something i'm thinking about. the electoral college. do you think secretary clinton may have a problem in states like ohio, virginia, north carolina, florida? is that what you're talking about when you say electoral college? >> if republicans have a chance to win, it's in those states where, look, it's difficult for a party to win three in a row. george herbert walker bush did

it. hillary clinton in the very states you named, i'd add wisconsin to that list, add iowa to that list, a state where she's had trouble. today i'd make her a favorite in those places against any of these republicans. >> we. >> but the notion that she could expand it, you know, could she win in arkansas, could she win a louisiana, could she win a kentucky? it just doesn't seem likely right now. >> i agree with you. >> so she's a strong candidate. >> yeah. >> and it's not a mirage. she's got flaws. it's not a mirage. but the difficulty for the republicans, you've got one, a one-line job description. who can win states away from hillary clinton in the electoral college? and, again, right now, there's vulnerability there, but they can't beat her without somebody who's ready to step up. i'll say, again, you look at that list. most of them, i don't think, are close to ready. i don't see how they get ready between now and the end of this year which is really when they have to start being ready. >> well, do we, even the middle weight guys like rubio, not jindal, but rubio, scott walker, one of those or kasich, anybody

who run, don't they come, john, with power pack of eight years of democratic rule, eight years of increasing unpopularity? they don't have it inside them, they have it pushing from behind them. they have that tailwind. >> they do. look, i mean, any general election in addition to the fact mark said it's hard for me party to win the white house three in a row. if we continue on the path we're going now, we have a pretty mild recovery. we will have had eight years of barack obama not having had any kind of real economic boom and you'll have a candidate in hillary clinton who's going to have to own a lot of the obama record. republicans will have tailwinds on that score, but, again, as mark said, you can't win no nobody and you think about a lot of these republicans out there right know. they have a long road to hoe to get into the league of political performance, financial packing hillary clinton brings to the table from day one. >> quickly, mark, seems to me the advantage the republicans have is they have to duke it out

whoever gets the nomination. how does hillary rodham clinton get back into training without exposing herself to the cheap shots after the minute she starts talk? used to be you go to new haven to try out. how does she try out? >> there are challenges. maybe doing a couple "hardball" college town halls will do it. >> would help us. >> the reality she's got the benefits of being an incumbent without having to run the federal government. right now she is an incumbent within the democratic party. those people win. look at clinton, look at bush, look at obama. when they don't have nomination challenges. that's why i think avoiding a serious nomination challenge is so important. yes, she'll be a little rusty. yes, she'll go in the first general election debate knoll having been tested of late, but avoiding that, having republicans beat each other up and having her go through that process, raise all the money for the general, that's a lot of strength. i'll take the rustiness if that's the tradeoff. >> i got a tunnel for you guys, hat trick. okay? how about triple play? hat trick. what do you think? >> we'll put those in the hopper. >> they're going to be doing it again.

up next, let me finish with the anger of ted cruz. it's torrential. this is "hardball." the place for politics. ovely re. may i read something? yes, please. of course. a rich, never bitter taste cup after cup. 340 grams. [ sighs ] [ male announcer ] always rich, never bitter. gevalia. take this simple test. press your tongue against it, like this. it moves! do you feel it? it can happen with every denture. these movements may irritate your gums. but you don't have to bear with it. you can try fixodent plus gum care. thanks to its formula, your gums become one with your denture. this helps stop movement and helps prevent gum irritation so you can keep enjoying life. [ apple crunches ]

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let me finer tonight with this. i've never seen a candidate for national office, certainly not a presidential candidate as angry as ted cruz. he's angry at the democrats. angry at the republicans. angry even at the human tendency to try to meet sometimes in the middle. to him the goal is to head as far right as possible, stand there, then oppose anyone and everything to your left and claim the right to rule because no one else in the country is as radical as you are. this is the politics of the zoo where each animal gets to rule its own cage, gets to roar or whine or snort or whatever as loud as he wants. ted cruz doesn't mind who owns the zoo, of course. he wants it own his own cage, be the only one who's all alone in the farthest right position of the republican party. so far alone, so far extreme that no one else appears in the

same picture. the simple reason, no one else, not marco rubio, not rand paul, maybe bobby jindal is desperate, wild enough, nuts enough to want to be in the same cage with this character. anyway, that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. news tonight that president obama spent an hour on the phone this afternoon with the russian president vladimir putin. during which obama told putin that russia's actions are a violation of ukraine sovereignty. this phone call comes as the crisis in ukraine today significantly intensified when the crimean parliament voted to hold a referendum on joining russia and leaving ukraine this morning. that decision now creates a new looming deadline just a little more than a week away and prompted strong condemnation from president obama and european leaders. while the interim ukrainian government for its part began the process to dissolve the same