there are new developments this afternoon in the mysterious disappearance of malaysia airlines flight mh370. nbc news confirmed two passengers who boarded the plane with tolden passports purchased their tickets from a resort in thailand through an iranian middleman known as mr. ali. sources tell nbc news that the two men described as vaguely d mediterranean looking began their journey it qatar. interpol criticized the lax security that allowed passengers to board, saying it's of great concern that any passenger able to board an international flight using a stolen passport, listed in interpol's databases. at this moment, u.s. intelligence has not specified whether they are considering terror as a motive. meanwhile, authorities have yet to find any debris or wreckage from the vanished yet. crews from malaysia, u.s., china, australia, thailand, and

philippines have joined the search. malaysian authorities said today that, an oil slick found over the weekend initially believed to be the plane is not related to the crash. more than 72 hours after the plane first disappeared new details may be emerging relate together flight path. the plane may have turned around just before contact with air traffic control was lost. and today, malaysia expanded the search area to include land in the western part of the country, which is a mix of mountainous terrain and beaches, where 80% of malaysia's population resides. joining me now, nbc news correspondent tom costello. can you tell us more about what this means measurably in terms of the search area being expanded? we were looking at a totally different part of the globe, now looking at western part of malaysia which seems decidedly more populous. >> tells you a couple of things. one, they have no idea where this plane is. we have no emergency locationer

transmitter beaken and no, right now new york underwater pinging sound to our knowledge. so, can we go to the other map? i need the other map to explain what's go on here. there are two search zones. the first one is in the south china sea and the gulf of thaila thailand. the second one you have mentioned is off to the west of country. that's the -- the they have included the island of the mainland there, but also the water to the left, to the west of malaysia, up north of the indonesian island of sumatra. what does that tell you? why is it possible the plane was headed towards vietnam in the upper right but now looking to the left? the reason for that is because the last known military radar image of the plane seemed to suggest it was turning left. so, as a result of that, they're now going to start looking to the west to see if this plane perhaps kept flying, did it fly into the ground, into a mountain range or the jungle in malaysia, or did it keep flying, did it end up in the ocean on the other side of malaysia to north of

sumat sumatra? that tells you they're struggling to understand what's happened. we're into day four there on the ground and if by now they had seen any signs of wreckage on the water, in south china sea, they would presume that's where the plane is. there is no sign of wreckage. no fuel, nothing. if you have a plane that hits the water with that force, it's going to shatter into 1 million pieces. you're going to fine pieces floating on the water, especially the thinking goes in this heavily traveled area of the south china sea and gulf of thailand. the fact they haven't found anything is very concerning here. now they're broadening out this search zone, expanding it and thinking, maybe it made a complete left hook, if you will, and went back over malaysia and back into another ocean. why would that happen? you're going to ask me, how could that happen? the theory would be maybe the crew was incapacitated. maybe there was a breach of the cabin somehow and they lost air

pressure, cabin pressure. maybe there was some sort of a criminal act. but that's the thinking now. maybe they've been looking in the wrong place. >> my question would be, tom, if the plane did fly back over land, over a -- i mean, kuala lumpur is incredibly populous, talking about western part of the country 80% of the country lives, wouldn't there be some -- wouldn't you think there would be come sign of eyewitness account of this plane flying over airspace? there maybe not flying over. 35,000 feet. but if the plane crashed into the mainland one would think you would have a report of that although the thinking is maybe it ended up in the jungle, maybe it ended up hitting a mountain of some sort. 2:30, 3:30 in the morning, keep in mind, everybody's asleep. but if there united states way huge explosion impact and it was in any way near an area that was pop u lated, the thinking is somebody would have heard something. they don't have anything. so that's why they're including the ocean to the left there, to the west of malaysia.

this has really got everybody scratching their heads. just before i came on the air, on the phone with a 777 pilot who says they are absolutely stumped by this because why didn't radar pick up anything here? well, this is part of the world where radar isn't very good. and it's entirely possible that they were simply not able to see this plane. >> nbc's tom costello, thank you for the latest. i'm sure we'll be back to you in coming days for more updates. joining me now, msnbc counterterrorism expert and form director of the national counterterrorism center, michke lieter. scenarios seem per plegsing. you called them low probability events, dramatic mechanical failure where you have no distress signal or potentially terrorism where there is no chatter, there is no sort of trail of any sort electronically or otherwise that would lead to this. >> right. >> where do you stand right now

in terms of thinking what may have gone down. >> my point of low probability event, normally planes don't fall out of the sky 35,000 feet. lots of flights every day, not terrorists. we're in the realm of something out of the ordinary which makes it hard to figure out what it is. my gut still tells me that this probably wasn't terrorism. if i were director of the national counterer terrorism still i would have every analyst looking at every angle, digging into to make sure it wasn't. but looking at it from the outside, the route this plane was plying from malaysia to beijing, absence of terrorist organizations in the region with this level of sophistication, all of these pieces, to me, suggest it wasn't terrorism and it was some massive mechanical failure. we don't know yet, but that's where i would lead. >> what about -- there's going to be a lot of dissecting and conflicting information the next couple of days. the fact that mr. ali had

iranian route roots, people talking about the origin in qatar, how much would you take that -- how seriously would you take that? >> in order to figure out what happened, you have to take it all out seriously. you can't rule out anything too early. my take on mr. ali, this isn't suspicious. he was the first one who raised his hand and said, i sold these tickets to these guys. if you're actually dealing with something which is nefarious, that's not what someone normally does. now, the flight route, interesting, maybe suspicious, but it's not just suspicious for terrorism reasons. it's just suspicious for other reasons, and that's what makes it hard to distinguish between potential motives and whether or not these two had anything to do with the tragedy. >> what interpol here? the fact is that the malaysian authorities didn't bother checking passports against the interpol database. were you surprised at that?

to what degree is that -- it is a fail on their part, but to what degree is that surprising? its not terribly surprising. checking of stolen passports and global watch listing requires three things. one, interpol has to know if a passport was stolen. in this case, one might not have been reported. second, interpol has to get to that the country. third, airlines have to have access to country's information about this and it may have been the case that the malaysian authorities might have known the passport was stolen. the question is when these two check into an airport, do they have real-time ability to check against the passport? the answer, globally, that's very, very rare. united states is on the cutting edge because of the lessons of 9/11 and subsequent events we do this well globally, most countries do not. >> what about the practical security measures? what will be enacted in terms of security measures in the days/weeks following this.

>> a lot of lessons learned about require us knowing what happened. passports, there will be some impetus for all countries to make sure there is some technical way for airlines to check in the very short amount of time they have, maybe the 40 minutes when someone checks into when they get on a plane to check those international databases. but that is resource intensive. not going to happen quickly. it's not happened in the many years interpol started collecting this. further lessons learned are going to depend when we figure out what happened at this upon. >> you've been on the inside of this stuff, the white house today, jay carney asked about whether terrorism may be at the root of this. he said, unfortunately we do not have enough information to comment on the cause of this incident. one can bet surely the white house is exploring every avenue. what degree to american counterterrorism forces coordinating with the malaysian government, operating on their own independent because they don't think they've had sort of adequate services thus far?

give me a sense of the breakdown of duty. >> the u.s./malaysian cooperation has been pretty good. malaysia's been successful over the past 13 years suppressing a lot of its terrorist threats, betten bettener b better indonesia and the philippines. i think it's probably less tight between u.s. and chinese officials. >> yes. >> i would guess, in addition to cooperation as you suggested, the u.s. is going to do things on its own. the u.s. is going to look at its own information to figure out if there's additional information they can feed to the malaysians for this investigation. >> an ongoing story. michael leiter, thank you for your time. coming up, senate democrats plan to stay up all night talking climate change. will their flatterth colleagues across the aisle listen? two of the architects in the talkathon. i wanted to call it a

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it may be one of the rare moments on capitol hill when talk is not cheap. in just a few hours 30 senators, 28 democrats 2 independents engage in an all-night climate change talkathon, expected to

last until 9:00 a.m. tomorrow morning. as the hill reports, the senators involved in monday's climate fest just want to get to a point where lawmakers can agree that climate change is a scientific fact. but in the science of the republican party of 113th congress, 160 members, 130 in the house, 30 in the senate, are on record denying that human activity is to blame for the earth's warming atmosphere. not joining the talkathon, every single republican who was invited. for a sense of the prevailing mood in the gop look at the cpac conference, there at a panel called can americans survive obama's war on fossil fuel, the name of an actual panel, a man named alex epstein explained that people are concerned about global warming, those people who are concerned about global warming are practitioners of human racism.

>> it's a prejudice against the man made, i call this human racism. so there's a very deep human racism behind all of our discussions where we assume it's chemicals, everything. we assume that if something is manmade, that it is immoral, that it's bad. that distorts the entire quote/unquote scientific discussion. >> human beings, so self-loathe, that they are apparently racist against themselves. but alex epstein and his cpac audience are not the only ones creating strange, terrifying worlds for themselves. on friday, mitch mcconnell told the senate itty inquirer for everybody who thinks it's warming, i can find who thinks it isn't. it's unclear whether somebody are actual scientists. nasa, comprised of scientists notes broad consensus regarding global warming and cites more science showing 20 warmest years on record have all occurred

since 1981. it also lists all of the american scientific societies, science academies, and international bodies that agree with the general principle, that human activity is warming up this place we call earth. perhaps one day, tomorrow might be too soon, but one day, the same people denying this basic fact will be seen a lot like folks who cold christopher columbus he would fall off the earth pause it was flat. >> climate change has become a partisan issue but it hasn't always been. nobody has a monopoly on a very hard problem but i don't have much patience for anyone who denies this challenge is real. we don't have time for a meeting of flat earth society. >> joining me, the junior democratic senator from massachusetts, ed markey, and the senior democratic senator from hawaii, brian schotz. please, preserve your voices i know you will need them this evening. senator markey, let me start

with you. you are a lion on this issue of climate change. part of methinks that this signals that actual legislation is no longer nearly as meaningful as political theater. you know, i think to some degree, rand paul and ted cruz showed us that. is that an overly cynical view of what happens on capitol hill? >> well, we are going to show that there is life in this issue, and that we are going to inject it into the 2014 election cycle, as your report showed. the science shows the danger. the economics show that there are hundreds of thousands of jobs that can be created here in the united states to deal with the problem and what we're going to do tonight is show that we are going to change the politics on this issue as well. we're going to inject it into this election cycle. the planet is running a fiever, there are no emergency rooms for

planets. we have to take the proactive preventism actions in order to make sure we don't see the worst catastrophic effects and turn this into a real issue this year. >> why no dot the talky-buster or talkathon and also have legislation in your back pocket or do you have legislation in your back pocket. >> issues go through three phases, political education, activati activation, implementation. we are laying the foundation for political action, for the legislation. we do believe that it is going to be possible for us to extend the wind, energy tax breaks which the republicans have now allowed to expire. we believe that we're going to be able to extend the solar tax breaks. we believe there is a lot of concrete action which we can take and, as this year unfolds, the american people are going to hear what a clean energy agenda

looks like that can create hundreds of thousands of jobs and save the planet at the same time. >> senator, let me ask you about the reaction that you've gotten from your fellow democrats, because there are 30 of you, which is great, but also 25 democrats who are not participating in this, including red state democrats and democrats up for tough re-election fights, mary landrieu, mark pryor, kay hagan, mark begich, mark warner, names we repeat on a lot of things these days. what were their reaction? >> i think this has to be seen in context, this has totally exceeded our expectations in terms of turnout. we were hoping for about a dozen members of the senate and it just kept growing and growing over the last couple of weeks and late last week, early this morning we found out that all four members of the top leadership of the u.s. senate on the democratic side are participating. so 30 members of the senate don't come down to the floor for really any reason other than to

vote. so this is really a show that we have momentum, that the senate is stirring on this issue. but senator markey's exactly right. we're at the stage where we need to engage the american public. the only place where there is still a debate about the reality of climate science is unfortunately in the four corners of the united states capitol. everybody else understands democrat, republican, independent across the nation that climate change is real, happening now, and it's solvable. what we're doing now is starting the process of engaging the american public, getting it into the electoral context of 2014 and letting them know that we understand how serious this issue. not every member's going to make it to the floor tonight. but 30 out of 55 is really extraordinary and it's a historic moment for all of us. >> senator markey, let's talk about the folks across the eye aisle who are not participating i read lryan lidza's piece, whih

you were involved in the waxman-markey and the efforts in the senate. at that point, this is only a couple of years ago, lindsey graham was saying that carbon emissions were not good for the planet. john mccain was thinking of participating in reform. one gets the sense that these sort of elder republicans -- i don't mean in terms of age but people who have been in legislation and have seen how far we've come in terms of this debate and how far we've gone back, they know it's real, and yet the public amnesia would seem to verge on the criminal, given their intraction and complete blinders, publicly, rhetorically, on the issue. do you ever have private conversations with senators mccain and graham and say, you were at the table once, can't we get you back? >> the way i view this issue is that climate science is something that's undeniable but not inevitable. you are right, there are people

on the republican side of the aisle who do agree with the science. and it's our job to create the political conditions that make it easier for them to partner in a bipartisan way to pass the key legislation. when i introduced the legislation in 2001, 2003, 2005, to increase dramatically our fuel economy standards which president obama has used to increase to 55 miles per gallon by 2026, no one was predicting that we would be standing over president bush's shoulder in december of 2007 as he signed the bill that made it possible to in crease those fuel economy standards. that's how we view it. we know it can be bipartisan. we know it has to be. and we think that what we're doing is helping to make it easier for members to cross back over the aisle. >> senator, one more question to you about keystone, which is in the news a lot lately. john kerry ultimately going to

have to make a decision on this. he's been very involved in climate change, someone would say. some would say one of his signature issues. you're doing a talkathon to change the dialogue around the issue of commit change and fossil fuels. how detrimental to your cause would it be if kerry approved the pipeline. >> we're opposed to the approval of the pipeline. people are coming to the floor tonight and tomorrow who have a differing view. there's an opportunity right now for us to invite republicans to go -- come back and be reasonable about this issue because the political risk for them that is they lose a generation of voters that they don't take this issue seriously. eddie's right, we've got to change politics on this and that's what tonight is all about. >> i like it when you call senator markey eddie. that's another reason to love senator markey. >> my mother and brian schatz, the best of company. >> may i suggest a combination of red bull, hot lemon and honey

and however many lozenges you need. thanks for your time. >> thank you. coming up, the cia versus congress versus the department of justice. "new york times" weighs in on a raging fight over the explosive intelligence report, just ahead. ♪

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against humanity. after the break, how do you know when a key intelligence report contains critical and foengslily damaging material? when the cia reportedly spies on the lawmakers responsible for that report. so i get invited to quite a few family gatherings. heck, i saved judith here a fortune with discounts like safe driver, multi-car, paperless. you make a mighty fine missus, m'lady. i'm not saying mark's thrifty. let's just say, i saved him $519, and it certainly didn't go toward that ring. am i right? [ laughs ] [ dance music playing ] so visit progressive.com today. i call this one "the robox."

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it's going to cost me an arm and a leg. that's hilarious. sorry. you shoulda taken it to midas. get some of that midas touch. they tell you what stuff needs fixing, and what stuff can wait. next time i'm going to midas. high-five! arg! i did not see that coming. trust the midas touch. for brakes, tires, oil, everything. (whistling) 12 years after the attacks of september 11th, foot over who were l. write one of most contentious chapters in american history has turned into a standoff between congress and central intelligence agent sy. the chapter, the detention, interrogation and torture that took place during the separation of president george w. bush. five years ago, 2009, the senaten tell against committee began a detailed investigation into the cia's former program of rendition, detention,

interrogation where some of the most controversial practices on the war on terror took place. committee had access to million of classified cables and documents. in 2012, four years and some 48 million taxpayer dollars late, the senate report was finished. committee submitted its 6300-page report to the cia for an official response. according to "the new york times," quote, people who have read the study said it is a withering indictment of the program and details many instances when cia officials misled congress, the white house, and the public about the value of the agency's brutal interrogation methods, including waterboarding. during his confirmation last february, before he became cia director, john brennan vowed to make the senate report a top priority under his leadership. >> if i am confirmed, the highest priority would be the lengthy report on the detention

and interrogation program that involve now-banned interrogation techniques. reading this report from the committee raises serious questions about the information that i was given at the time and the impression i had at that time. >> one year into john brennan's tenure as cia director and the senate report yet to be declassified and released. after brennan confirmed he issued 122-page rebuttal to some basic facts and conclusions within the report. last week, tensions over the report and between congress and the cia escalated even further when "the new york times'" mark mazetti reported the cia may have spied on the intelligence committee, specifically what they were up to the room in the facility in northern virginia. why? because at some point in their investigation, the senate committee gained access to the cia's only internal review of the bush era interrogation program. an internal review the cia conducted in 2009 and did not

want the senate intelligence committee to see. according to the reporting, early december of last year, agency officials began scouring the digital logs of the computer network used by the senate staff members to try to learn how and where they got the report. in other words, the cia was spying on the very branch of government responsible for overseeing it. john brennan is denying these claims and in a statement last week wrote that he was, quote, deeply dismayed that some members of senate decided to make spurious allegations about cia actions that are wholly unsupported by the facts. it has been a long, strange trip for the man who insisted just one year ago that the partnership between the cia and congress was really, really important to him. >> during my courtesy calls with many of you, i also heard repeated references to a trust deficit that hasekisted between this committee and the cia. if i am confirmed a trust deficit between the committee and cia would be wholly

unacceptable to me and i would make it my goal on day one of my tenure and every day thereafter to strengthen the trust between us. >> joining me, national security correspondent for "the new york times," mark mazetti who is author of the way of the knife, the cia, a secret army and a war at the ends of the earth. compelling reporting you've been doing. thank you for joining us. my first question to you is, do you have any sense, this report the senate intelligence committee report, not declassified but do you have any sense of what might be in it? what -- how much it may mirror the cia's own review known as the panetta review? >> as you laid out very well in the beginning, there's two separate reports going on. there's the 6300-page report that sort of details what work or did not work of these interrogation methods used by the cia during the bur administration. and from what we can tell, it's a pretty withering study and specifically on the point of

that these methods didn't produce any valuable intelligence. in terps of the cia's internal review, the panetta review, it's our understanding it's a summary of documents. the panetta in 2009 put his staff on this project to basically figure out what they were turning over to the committee to summarize the documents. the panetta review is a series of memos that provides analysis. it's our understanding some of the documents do have some pretty critical assessments of the cia's own interrogation methods. >> were surprised at john brennan's 180 making the report job, a top priority, a year late somewhere not only is it not released if we're to look at current actions, seemingly resistant to have that report released. >> yeah. the completion of the report in late 2012 was just in many ways the beginning of the saga

because you had brennan coming in and then a couple months after he began his work at cia, delivers this rebuttal to the report, 122-page document back to the committee that was challenging not only fact of the report but some of the conclusions. so, then you've had this back and forth for months. then resulting in the revelation as we heard late last year there is this internal study, this panetta review. the first year of brennan's tenure at cia hasn't been the total era of transparency he was promising. it's unclear when we're going it see any of either the original senate report or the cia internal review. >> it also go to the bigger question in the age of terror about oversight and cooperation between various branchs of the government. here you have what andrew sullivan calling the cia acting as a rogue agency and believing it's above the law do you think there's a certain sense that the

cia can sort of -- is exempt from constitutional oversight? >> well, i think that there's sort of two issues here. there's the question of the constitutional issue, oversight and separation of powers, and then the criminal act, were there any criminal acts? i've talked to law professor what crimes may be committed on either side, because there's are allegeses that the senate committee got unauthorized access to cia computers and it does seem hard to imagine actual criminal charges being brought here. but on the issue of over sight the idea cia was monitoring the overseers does raise issues of separation of powers and constitution alty even if it was after the fact, even if they were concerned about the senate committee gaining access to computers and then checking digital logs. they claim it's their right to do it. but the people investigating

their own overseers. >> exactly. >>s a lot of people concerned. >> what about the department of justice? when you talk to folks at doj, how do they deal with what is effectively being the intermedia intermediary between two branchs government? >> they've got on one hand allegations, as i said, of unauthorized access by the senate committee into cia computers. but -- so that's going to have to be an examination of members of congress or congressional staff. and they've also got a look at this issue referred by the cia inspector general, is it appropriate or unlawful for the cia to monitor the work of the intelligence committee? i think it's very early on in any of these kind of investigations, and just department would point out they haven't launched in i investigation, they've been referred cases. so, they're looking at this, and you know, it's early days on that front. >> this is a big, complicated story about the constitution and

democracy in the 21st century. thank you so much for your time and reporting, thanks again. coming up -- from 23% in the cpac straw poll, to 6%, oh what a difference a year makes. marco rubio's attempted revival, just ahead. [ male announcer ] this is kevin. to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for him, he's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. i was okay, but after lunch my knee started to hurt again. and now i've got to take more pills. ♪ yup. another pill stop. can i get my aleve back yet? ♪ for my pain, i want my aleve. ♪ [ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap. ♪

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this weekend. but that hasn't stopped rubio from trying to turn it all around. he made the latest stop on his recovery tour with an economic speech at google's d.c. headquarters it and was a doozy. the job-killing regulations. >> washington has put up a blockade of restrictions and regulations and taxes that prevent innovators from accessing the full range of opportunities offered by the american free enterprise system. >> at a time of record oil and gas exports and production of 7.5 million barrels of crude oil per day, as of last year, senator rubio had a bout of amnesia. >> more ways to streamline the regulatory review process for natural gas pipelines and we must eliminate barriers that prevent us from exporting natural gas and oil abroad. >> then there was his call to lower taxes for corporations. >> the reform reare considering, for example, would allow

businesses to take a full and immediate reduction -- deduction for all of their investments. this fair and equal treatment would end the crony capitalists loopholes that benefit politically connected corporation. >> senator rubio's remarks all happened to have one thing in common, they don't involve actually addressing any of the issues mentioned. as written in the "new york" magazine, when you don't need to grapple with specifics or difficult trade-offs, writing speeches with uplifting themes is extremely easy. passing immigration reform on the other hand is extremely hard it requires writing bills. joining me now, jared bernstein and national political reporter for "the washington post," nia-malika henderson. marco rubio's behavior reminds me of myself at bad dinner parties i used to throw in my 20s. i would burn the steak and in an effort to get everybody to forget about the burned steak, i would overload them with cookies

and booze. >> this is good. this is a really good strategy. one that i'm going to have to use at some point, too. this is what rubio did. rubio has been feeding a lot of sugar to the base in his dinner party guests for a while now, after that really negative response that he got around immigration reform. as you said, he came in serve eb en at cpac, 23% last year, 6% this year, and in that speech, i think you see what he's trying to do. and that is wrap himself in american exceptionalism where he started off in 2010 with the cpac audience. he was talking about there ukraine and those sort of things. he's trying to outhawk the most hawkish of republicans. and this speech today, i feel sorry for people who have to put together these speeches because it's like putting together a conservative mr. potato head. you have all of the same parts, and not a lot there.

he's sounding similar themes. in fact, mitt romney, 2012, called for a new american century and sounded many same themes about atta s abous about attention to corporations. >> it's great, we've been calling for policy prescriptions from the gop and addressing the issue of economic inequality and poverty in the country, they're pretending they're doing it. but when it come down to laying out specific policies or acknowledging that government may be as part of the solution, there is really -- there is no meat there. its a republican mr. potato head. >> we have burned steak, potatoes. >> hungry. >> there's a meal in here somewhere. look, first two things. you are reminding me of a great column, it sound likes some of the republican policymakers like the idea of having ideas. >> yes. >> versus ideas themselves. but you know, i actually had a somewhat different take on some of the things that he talked

about today and you kind of got to it a little bit in your introduction. marco rubio ticked off innovation in i.t., expanded trade. he talked about energy independence and he talked about lowering the corporate tax rate. in fact, every one of those ideas is either being pursued effectively or is on the docket for the obama administration. they are very much in support of expanding trade, as you mentioned, energy exports of petroleum products are for the first time in surplus in like 60 years. so we're doing a ton of that. the obama administration has done a lot offen know vati efe and proposed to lower the corporate tax rate. this reads like a speech where a republican gets up and says the bunch of stuff the white house is doing and plugs in nasty things about the white house. >> right. it's a smoke screen. to sort of build on e.j.'s

notion here, it's ideas about democratic ideas, right? it's not even ideas about sort of conservative ideas. >> you have to put together some dessper rit parts. talking about innovation and i.t., he's talking about roles for the agencies are, on the other hand, there are budgets cut the heck out of the agency's budgets. >> that's right. he's not talking about people. tim scott gave a recent interview he talked about sort of republicans defending and talking about corporations is really a trap. reframe it and talk about how tax breaks might affect real people. marco rubio didn't really do much of that at all. >> you know, let me ask you, you mentioned the foreign policy piece. that seems to be an area where it's not just an idea about an idea but an actual semi idea that is based in conservative principle. but one that seems to maybe be outmoted in the party, mortgage of an interventionist foreign

policy. marco rubio got into it with rand paul. sorry, ted cruz and rand paul got into it back and forth in terms of where we are in foreign policy. there's a lot of tension in the republican party right now in terms of the idea of like a strong america on the global stage. >> that's right. >> go ahead. >> you have the tea party that's very much about libertarianism, about noninterventionism, even though rand paul is trying to modify his views and soften them from where his father was. but not a big appetite for this very robust idea of america having the strong place in the world. so that's what marco rubio is trying to figure out, where is this place in this pantheon of folks that might run in 2016? he thought immigration. it doesn't look like it's going to than. he's trying to carve out a space for him around the idea of a robust foreign policy. >> one wonders whether that

space exists. rick sonner to rum sa er tner t the discussion here, how do you move the ball forward. >> if politicians can't talk about the middle class, they're able to say anything which might not be a terrible outcome. look, when talking about foreign policy, marco rubio runs into trouble, in his heart he's pro-immigration reform. >> yeah. >> that is a component of foreign policy that he'd probably like to talk about but won't. >> how much -- before i let you go, how much do conservatives hold his feet to the fire on any of this? ideas about ideas in the ether or some wing of the party say, no, these are the wrong ideas, these are the wall street establishment ideas. >> what you described is the fight within the party now and i could argue for both sides, i don't think we know where they're going to come out on that. >> we don't know so many things

about the gop. everybody, go get a steak. that is all for now. see you back here tomorrow 4:00 p.m. eastern. "the ed show" starts now. >> good evening, americans and welcome to "the ed show" live from new york. let get to work. >> i would do something differently than the president. >> drill, baby, drill. >> imagine, imagine with me for a moment. >> immediately every obstacle out of the way for our exported oil and gas. >> my positions are very, very clear. >> he's the prophet. >> that would be drilling in every possible, conceivable place, every possible conceivable place. >> nowness when you chant, drill, baby, drill. >> i drink it up! >> i guess i would say that everybody has their