pretty low bar. time to expect more to demand more. do we want a society governed for the needs of the many or the desires of the few? i know which side of the battle i'm on. do you? that does it for "the cycle." now alex wagner is now. team christie takes the fifth to keep their g-mail accounts locked. it is tuesday, march 11th. this is "now. ♪ >> breaking news from trenton, new jersey. two central figures step in and bridget anne kelly are refusing to turn over documents. >> kelly wrote the infamous e-mail. >> fighting for her right to remain silent this is a pivotal point. >> obviously, miss kelly is critical to what occurred. >> if we don't get the

documents, we may never learn what was behind the e-mail time for traffic problems at ft. lee. >> this has great political implications for chris christie. >> his approval rating has evaporated. >> there is still no direct tie to the governor. >> his political life is hinging on this court hearing today and what follows. >> there has got to be something tie him to that and why they are resisting this so hard. >> he hasn't answered any questions about this publicly since january 19th. >> the subpoenas are -- >> got awful winter that i wish would end yesterday. >> time for some web traffic problems? it seems the denial ain't just a river in egypt but maybe one in new york that runs underneath the george washington bridge. denial, denial, denial, was the name of the game today for the attorney in court today representing bridget anne kelly. chris christie's former deputy chief of staff and the author of the now infamous time for some

traffic problems in ft. lee e-mail. >> i do not concede that my client sent this. its face does it regard the george washington bridge? nope. >> nope. time for traffic problems in ft. lee. the most explicit and potentially damming piece of accordance in the whole bridgegate saga. off the table. don't worry about it. unrelated. apparently it is just that simple for lawyers advocating for team christie today and lawyers trying to keep text messages and other subpoenaed communications out of the hands of state investigators. kelly and her team were joined by a lawyer for christie's former campaign manager bill stepien they argue complying with the subpoenas carry the risk of self-incrimination. >> you cannot go into a person

and ask him to incriminate himself. >> i don't think because you're a state employee you lose any constitutional rights. >> reporter: the attorneys argued over the terms of the subpoenas, the law for state investigator said team christie's idea of a valid subpoena is no subpoena at all. >> i didn't hear anybody articulate what a valid subpoena would be in this case. nobody. because they don't want there to be a valid subpoena. >> with no decision issued today, the judge asked the lawyer representing the state super committee, the folks investigating this whole mess, the judge asked them for more information regarding their authority to grant immunity. kelly's attorney suggested granting her immunity would help loosen the release of those subpoenaed documents but questions remain what super powers the committee holds. the judge said she would issue a ruling on the subpoenas, quote, sooner than later. joining me is nbc news national investigative correspondent michael isikoff and author of

the indispensable "the fix." chris seliza. michael, you've been there all day. i would love to know your first thoughts on this and really specifically whether or not this denial of access to the text messages and accordance is just plain and simple strategy to get immunity for bridget anne kelly. >> it could be part of it. >> reporter: it was a fascinating legal argument about the contours of the fifth amendment. he had the special counsel for the committee saying these documents are critical, that bridget anne kelly is right in the middle of this, that in order for the committee to do its job and to get to the bottom of what happened here, it needs to get her e-mails, text messages, and other documents. but the argument spot from kelly and stepien's lawyers seem to

carry some sway with the judge, particularly about how specific the subpoena is and whether or not -- in responding to the subpoena, kelly and stepien would have to identify documents that responsive and in some ways testifying and admitting to information that they have a right, under the fifth amendment, to withhold. at the end of the day, the judge said this raised some serious constitutional issues and she is going to take a while to rule on them. she's in no rush to make a ruling here. she said she would like to do it sooner than later but she asked for more information and i think the bottom line is that the committee is not going to see those documents any time soon. >> michael, let me follow-up on that. because with when we talk about big academic or constitutional questions about the fifth amendment, what is the sort of

potential chain of events here? could this go into -- could this become a broader argument about the powers of the fifth amendment and could this be run up the flag pole to another higher court? >> reporter: of course. i mean, look. i think it's quite likely that whoever loses this argument before the judge jacobsson will appeal in the new jersey courts and paengs go to the federal court. it is a federal constitutional issue. the controlling authority here is actually a supreme court case involving webb hubble, a former law partner of hillary clinton, who was twice indicted by ken starr in the second indictment for tax evasion. he challenged the indictment saying he was forced to turn over documents and, therefore, was a form of testimony and the supreme court ruled in his favor. that's the opinion that kelly and stepien's lawyers are resting on in this argument today. so the contours, how far that

supreme court ruling goes in the hubble case is really at the core of what this issue is all about. so, yes, it could well end up in federal court. >> chris, there is a supreme court and then there is court of public opinion. >> right. >> if we are talking about team christie strategy here, i'm reminded of general stonewall jackson in the battle of bull run which seems to be the playbook that team christie is taking a page from which is deny, deny. i don't think stonewall jackson is about denial so much as putting up a very strong defense. how much does not cooperating hurt christie in terms of the ideas voters and the american electorate has of him and his deputies? >> so any time you get into a situation like this, alex, i think it's always important to remember there is a legal track that this will follow both in the courts as well as in the new jersey assembly. there's a separate, but intertwined political track. mike made, i think, a really

interesting point is that the judge, they said she was in no hurry to sort of offer a ruling. illegal, perfectly fine, take your time, but politically, that's not great. christie wants this wrapped up as soon as humanly possible. what he does not want is this story to continue to just churn and churn and churn and churn, because that doesn't put it behind him. what puts it behind him is a ruling that says, look, these people acted ultimately dumbly but alone. that is what he needs. but the legal time line and the legal calendar does not move anywhere quickly as the political or chris christie would like the political calendar to move. therein lies the problem. this is not just a political or legal story but some of both because we are talking about someone who quite clearly wants to run for president in 2016 and i think will continue to be dogged by the legal track and

slowness the legal track will move as he talks to donors and continues to chair the rga, et cetera. >> michael, to be clear, it's not just a legal track but the media track and the stories that continue to -- i'll point everybody's attention to a story in "the new york times" that came out yesterday evening which is, i think, scandalous as anything that has come out. it talks about how the christie administration used the port authority as a political. shortly after being appointed, david wildstein walked into a colleague's office at the port authority headquarters on park avenue south in manhattan and gestured toward the window. you know, that used to be tamidy hall. that is a seat of all corruption in new york. waiting to be, wildstein added, and the port authority is right here.

you have anecdotes like this and it does not do a lot to stand the stench, can you stand the stench? to stench the rumors about just how corrupt this administration might have been. >> reporter: well, look. it is useful to remember new jersey has a long, rich tradition of politics that doesn't exactly meet the common cause standard. but i think from christie's point of view, the real yardstick here is are there going to be criminal charges, is there going to be testimony that points the finger at him directly? and i do want to take a little issue with how you've crafted this, alex. you referred to kelly and stepien as team christie. and i'm not quite sure that in the case of bridget kelly, for instance, her interests are exactly consistent with the governor's right now. remember, christie has called her a liar. he fired her. the big unanswered question is

if she ever does have to testify, is she going to fall on her sword and say, this was all my idea? or is she going to point the finger upward? you know, we don't know what she is going to say, but anybody who has watched these sorts of stories unfold over time, it's rare that people do fall on their sword. >> wait. >> the other point i want to make -- right. in terms of what chris is saying, look. christie, it might also be in christie's interest to have her testify because how does he get beyond this until we have heard what bridget kelly has to say? how does he convince the public that there was not more to this scandal if the key players, bridget kaeelly and bill stepie and david wildstein haven't been heard from? >> that is interesting. the interest of christie and

stepien could diverge. they just used to be on the same team perhaps. to go back to your original point, chris. this is a huge question whether dragging this out helps or hurts chris christie. thus far, if we are looking at the latest polling, dickinson university surveyed released today only 41% approve of christie's job performance compared to 44% who disapprove. a 20-point drop in three months and the first time his approval has been a net negative. >> what we know, look back on from when we learned about this to now. what we know is that chris christie was interesting 2014 as an emerging front-runner and people laugh. how can someone be a front-runner in a race that is three years away. coalescing he was going to be the leading guy at least going into 2014. he had won this convincing re-election across a group that republicans struggle to win in a blue state.

he was going to be the chairman. he still is the chairman of the republican governors association. he had all of this momentum behind him. what we know for certain is in addition to those polling numbers in new jersey, nationally, that momentum has been knocked down considerably. whether that is in the donor communities or whether that's in the activist community and just logistically. we talk about symbolism with chris christie. a guy who wanted to focus a lot on starting to build that national network that you need to run for president and takes a long time to build, now is keeping at least one eye and has to on the legal and political battles in his state, as are members of his senior team, that is not a small hurdle and i think that -- we already know if nothing else happens, that momentum has been totally knocked back and it takes time, even if he is cleared of all -- any and all wrongdoing and this resolves himself he still has to

build that back and this is stuff. >> thank you both, gentlemen. coming up, did the cia try to intimidate members of congress? and what really happened in the bush era programs? that is ahead. first the disappearance of malaysia airlines flight 370 raises new question. hijacking, suicide missions and mechanical failure, that's next. ♪ no two people have the same financial goals. pnc investments works with you to understand yours and helps plan for your retirement. talk to a pnc investments financial advisor today.

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there is still no sign of malaysian flight 370 but earlier today the malaysian military say

they have radar evidence that shows the plane reversed its course. a senior officer saying the aircraft flew hundreds ever kilometers to the west after it made contact with the air traffic control off the koes. if that is accurate it means the plane flew west 350 miles after it lost contact with the control talker and made it into the malaka strait. they are fanning out to cover 750-mile search area on both coasts of malaysia in the malaca strait and they are searching judge areas in the southern region of that country. news of the altered flight course comes as the head of the interpol said investigations into the two iranians traveling aboard with stolen passports led them to believe this is likely not a terrorist incident

although cia director john brennan told our andrea mitchell you cannot discount any theory. joining me is former faa chief of staff, michael goldfavre. i want to talk, first, about the expansion of this search and potentially i guess still rescue operation to cover so many square miles. how much does this debunct the train going opposite direction? >> you can't write this script. it guess, stranger by the hour. absolutely belies belief that we have had so many people coming in with different reports of what happened. the dna of a crash is always a yooek set of things that happen simultaneously. it's not pilot or mechanical but tends to be a variety of things but in 25 years i've been involved i've never seen anything quite as strange as

this. aircraft structure, breakup of the aircraft is absolutely on the table but let's look now that we understand maybe speculation is a little bit off the deep end. even one report some respected aviation experts said perhaps the plane landed safely on the west coast of malaysia. that, in fact, the plane -- passengers are alive. we are really out there. but invariably, physical evidence will determine what happened to this aircraft. let's look at the three most possible things that could have occurred. first is the notion of a complete and utter electrical failure on a boeing 777. the plane flies electrically and built that way. because it flies electrically the notion it all went out at once is unheard of. that is why people talk about a catastrophic sudden decompression of the aircraft and rendering pilots and crew unconscious within seconds. that is the first thing. if he made a turn and the pilot

made a turn, the first thing if he made a turn a pilot in command of the aircraft why didn't he radio his new heading? that is very strange. then people are now beginning to ask whether, in fact, he voluntarily turned the transponder off. if he did that, it raises all kinds of other issues including pilot behavior, including complicit and perhaps a hijacking and puts terrorism on the table when interpol and cia and everybody has said the passport issue doesn't lead to maybe much more drug smuggling or illegal immigration. maybe the pilot didn't have time to radio back and flying the old-fashioned way and by a compass and map and stars and flying the plane by itself. that aircraft at altitude to continue on its flight path as it did for 300 or 400 miles. >> let me interrupt you. how likely is it that a pilot could fly dead headed in a

catastrophic electrical failure for 350 miles? >> all of these things are highly unlikely. >> right. >> that's why everybody is completely perplexed. loss of electrical power, manual flying of the airplane, somehow to believe with a locked cockpit that someone after post-9:00 cou -- post 9/11 get into the cabin is highly unlikely. the co-pilot loved aviation. hard to believe they were complicit in something or somebody got in that cockpit. >> somebody familiar with the faa here in the united states, we seem to be getting conflicting information from the airlines and from the malaysian authorities. "the new york times" has picked up on this. i'll read you an excerpt. he checked with senior military

officials who told him no evidence that the plane recrossed the malaysian peninsula and quote, not true from the chief. it strikes me as odd and you know much more about this than me, that you would have two parties or several parties in such conflict with each other and that information that came out from the military would be rebutted by the prime minister's office. >> okay. so in most countries, other than the united states, aviation is a joint responsibility, civil and military work hand in hand and have very clear-cut responsibilities. many areas don't have primary radar coverage because they are mountainous and oceanic so a great role in the military in many countries up to 60% of a nation's air space can be controlled by the military so you have different views. the united states and civil aviation and faa is in command and ntsb is in command. it's at least a clearer path. we have no more than 13 different nations on search and rescue and search and recovery and have this discrepancy.

it's very distressing for the families and quite frankly, we remain clueless. >> let me just ask you. in terms of coverage, if the transponder was taken off there is still a chance that while it was -- the plane was not picked up on civilian which is to say air traffic control radar the military picked it up which is one reason they are exploring the western part of the country and a flight path would have taken the plane potentially over malaysia and over populous parts of the country. >> it doesn't provide secondary

radar which is the traffic that air traffic control uses and much more bigger picture of altitude and position and space. it's unclear whether to believe that military radar story, yet it hasn't been confirmed. there is another element that is being added to this. where was air traffic control? it was 2:00 in the morning but they work night shifts and they have the midnight shift in every country and work from midnight to 5:00, 6:00 in the morning. while that first hour of flight because it was oceanic, they had no way of tracking it on radar. remember no radar coverage in the ocean. so the pilots report their position to air traffic every 15 minutes. it might be nsabunderstandable first hour the plane hadn't been reporting but another hour with a turn back to the west for two hours and still no communication or concern on the part of ground control? hand it off to vietnam, hand it back off to the malaysians is very curious as well. all of this, once we have some piece of physical evidence, it's amazing how they will and they will piece this together and

they will figure out what happened to this aircraft. >> it is a mystery that we are all praying does not end in tragedy. former faa chief of staff michael goldfavre, thank you for your time and expertise. >> my pleasure. coming up, about the cia spend on members of congress over an explosive intelligence report? the latest from u.s. spy chief john brennan and senate intel chair dine feinstein when mark udall joins me. as the war in syria drags into its third year, a pair of reports shed sdrulight on a disturbing report that is coming up. there is only one way to celebrate this unique similarity. witness the cheesesteak shuffle. ♪ cheesesteak, cheesesteak ♪ ♪ it's the cheesesteak shuffle! huh! ♪ ♪ every day, all day, cheesesteak, cheesesteak! ♪ ♪ every night, all night cheesesteak, cheesesteak! ♪ ♪ 9 a.m. cheesesteak! ♪ 2 p.m. cheesesteak! ♪ 4 a.m. cheesesteak! ♪ any time (ruh!) >>geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or

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i have grave concerns that the cia search may well have

violated the separation of powers principles embodied in the united states constitution. besides the constitutional implication, the cia search may also have violated the fourth amendment, the computer fraud and abuse act, as well as executive order 12333 which proi prohibits the cia from conducting surveillance services. >> one week ago reported that the cia may have spied on the senate intelligence committee because of cia concerns regarding the committee's report on the agency's detention and interrogation program under president george w. bush. today, senator dianne feinstein chair of the intelligence committee and often acts in defense of intelligence gathering came out to confirm she believes these reports to be true that the cia did spy on

another branch of government and she believes that may have been unconstitutional. feinstein also said the cia had removed hundreds of classified documents from the committee's investigation. in a 40-minute speech on the floor this morning feinstein said contrary to some reports her staff are lawfully act of the copy of the cia's internal review of the detention program and used cia search tools on a computer provided by the cia. but rather than asking the senate committee how it obtained the agency's internal review, the cia opted instead to just search the committee's computers. feinstein source on this? cia director john brennan. >> on january 15th, 2014, cia director brennan requested an emergency meeting to inform me and vice chairman chambliss that without prior notification or

approval, cia personnel had conducted is search, that was john brennan's word, of the committee's computers at the offsite facility. the cia did not ask the committee or its staff if the committee had access to the internal review or how we obtained it. instead, the cia just went and searched the committee's computers. >> despite the fact that feinstein says her concerns are based on what cia director brennan has told her personally, brennan is rejecting the accusations. this morning in an interview with our own andrea mitchell brennan repeatedly insisted his agency was in the clear. >> let me assure you that cia, in no way, was spying on the senate. we greatly respect the separation of powers between the executive branch and legislative branch. >> as far as the allegations of cia hacking into senate computers, nothing could be

further than the truth. we wouldn't do that. that is just beyond the scope of reason. >> but what exactly falls within john brennan's scope of reason? and, more importantly, why has the senate's 6300 page report on the cia's detention and interrogation program, finished over a year ago, why has that report not been relieved. after her speech fieinstein nex hurdle is getting enough votes to do just that. joining me is the senior democratic senator from colorado and member of the senate intelligence committee, senator mark udall. thank you for joining me on this very important news day, senator. what do you think the significance is of senator feinstein, someone who has been very defensive about our intelligence gathering institutions, if you will, what do you think the significance is of her coming out and repudiating what dr. brennan has

said and also questioning the constitutionality of the cia's actions? you're right, alex, a dramatic and historic day. the facts speak for themselves. i'm very pleased that senator feinstein took to the senate floor to lay out the chronology of events. i'm on the senate intelligence committee as you pointed out. i take my oversight responsibility very, very seriously. i believe we have to serve as the conscience of the nation and uphold the public trust. i've been pushing dr. brennan and his predecessor since 2011 to work with us to complete this report and then to release it. unfortunately, director brennan has not been as forthcoming as he should have been and the cia's attempting to undermine our investigation by illegally accessing our computers. i got to tell you that my confidence in director brennan ask he is lowest level it's ever been, particularly given today, i wouldn't acknowledge the misconduct that the cia has

undertaken even though as senator feinstein pointed out, he had come to senators feinstein and chambliss and told them the cia accessed the computers that the senate intelligence staff utilizes. maybe the word hacking doesn't mean the same as accessing computers. maybe we are playing a is a nse game here. it's not acceptable and the cia spied on the committee and this is not respecting the separation of power document that is heart of our system of government. >> if the doctor is not accepting the separation of powers, if he has violated the rights outlined in the u.s. constitution, do you think he should resign? >> the clock is running. my confidence is at the lowest level it's ever been. i think there may be one more opportunity to put things to right here, but the cia has an important role to play but if the public doesn't trust the cia, if the senate overseers don't trust the cia, i don't know how director brennan could

continue to lead the agency. thr a lot of smart dedicated patriotic americans who protect us through our intelligence operations but there has to be confidence that the cia also respects the balance of powers and the separation of powers and that respect has not been shown by the cia's actions in accessing our computers illegally. it's spying, unfortunately. >> yeah. and beyond that, i mean, one of the most distressing things that senator feinstein said today was in relation to the panetta review, the cia's internal review that the cia did not want to seem to want the senate intelligence committee access what she had was eunique was no their classification level but rather their analysis and acknowledgment of significant cia wrongdoing. the notion she perhaps is keeping a copy of this panetta review in the hart office building because of concern that the cia would destroy these documents. >> that's exactly the situation

we face, alex. i've been pushing for the release of the panetta review the past months because it does directly contradict what the cia is telling us as they reviewed this analysis and study and set of conclusions. the program was brutal. it was flawed and it was ineffecti ineffective. i call it torture. america is best when it learns from its mistakes and lift the stain that these programs placed on us in the last decade. we can make this right but not if the cia is going to deny and intimidate and undermine our oversight role that is so crucial to the separation of powers in our country. >> let me ask about the senate intelligence committee report. several thousand pages long. do you think senator feinstein hat votes at this point, especially given the turn of events today, to get that report declassified and out? >> i certainly believe that the votes are there. i don't think this should be a partisan issue when we first

approved the committee report last year, i believe. actually, i think it was late in 2012 to be more accurate. there was bipartisan support. i wish there was more bipartisan support because in the end, this shouldn't be a partisan issue. we're all responsible to uphold the public conscience and make sure that the american people have trust in our intelligence community's operations. the votes are there. i would hope that everybody in the committee would take a closer look at the report and realize that the truth shall set you free. we can -- yeah. >> senator, this is a problem certainly for one administration which is to say the bush administration, these torture allegations, but it could also complicate the present administration which has appointed john brennan to be its cia director. today, in a press briefing, jay carney stressed this president ended the torture programs under george w. bush and stressed that

he wants to have a transparent government and has made reforms to insure or at least move us closer to a more transparent intelligence gathering operation. how much of an issue is this -- is director brennan's stewardship of the agency, how much of an issue is that for the white house in your mind? >> if director brennan doesn't change course and if the cia isn't disclosing and doesn't respect the separation of powers, it means this administration hasn't gone as far as it said it wanted to go. the president did the right thing in ending the program. the president has done the right thing in calling for more transparency. but this is a special moment. this is an important moment. and director brennan, the cia, they need to stop undermining the role of the intelligence committee and need to work with us to release this report and that will add to this presence legacy and add to the openness of our society and it strengthens us around the world. american doesn't torture. america separates the separation of powers and that is the

opportunity here but director brennan has to grab it and the president, i believe, needs to direct director brennan to work with us in ways he hasn't here here heretofor. >> if you had any accordance with the white house today do you have any sense of whether or not they are pushing dr. brennan to be more cooperative? >> i have been urging the white house the last two years. it's been a cause of my over the last two years. it's a lonely issue and not many paying attention to this but i pushed the white house in many ways to get ahead of this for the right reasons and i continued to do so today and as time moves forward. it's time to release the report and let the truth come out. we will be stronger for it and we will have respected the separation of powers. we oversee congress. americans know it and it's a foundational principle of our form of government. >> now it seems you have a partner in senator dianne feinstein. a dramatic turn of events as we

said at the beginning of the segment. senator mark udall, thank you for are time and your thoughts. >> thank you. >> coming up, dick cheney goes on the record about someone name dick cheney. that's next. .

(music) defiance is in our bones. defiance never grows old. citracal maximum. calcium citrate plus d. highly soluble, easily absorbed. cheney. that is the latest nugget of wisdom from? dick cheney. this week, the self-described cowboy from wyoming was asked by tmz if he'd like to see kanye west or jay-z wearing a ten gallon hat like he often supports. he said if cheney is wearing it

it's a probably little too conservative for the hip-hop crowd. not too conservative for farrell. but cheney isn't the only conservative weighing in on hip-hop culture. this is is bill o'reilly weighing in on president obama's new initiative to help young men of color out of poverty. >> you have to attack the fundamental disease, if you want to cure it. i submit to you you'll have to get people like jay-z, kanye west all of these gangster rappers to knock it off. >> a full screen of kanye west. gangster rappers like kanye west. it will surprise exactly no one in mr. o'reilly doesn't have kanye west on his ipod but does he know what gangster rap is in the style is light years away from that of nwa and tupac rapping about street life and drug violence and gang life.

kanye's lyrics and artistic education could not be further removed from compton or murder avenue. take it from kanye west who also weirdly likes to refer to him in the third person. last year, he spoke to "the new york times" about his legacy. quote, i think what kanye west is going to mean is something similar to what steve jobs i mean. i mean, indoubtedly, you know, steve of internet. downtown, fashion, culture, period. like deck cheney, kanye west has a healthy ego in his career. he added in that report, i am the nucleus. if bill o'reilly is concerned that these gangster rappers have broken dreams we point him to these bars from a track on mr. west's latest album which bill o'reilly is a reference to jesus. hoir up with my damn massage,

hurry up with my croissants. it is a fact that gangster wrap is used to describe men who are black and who happen to be in the music industry. as thurston writes in his book, the following. until mr. o'reilly can wrap his head around the fact there are hip-hop stars out there better versed in [ speaking in foreign language ] collections they are sawed off guns and bricks of cocaine, perhaps mr. o'reilly should leave those criticisms to someone else. that is all here for now. i'll see you back here at 4:00

p.m. eastern tomorrow. "the ed show" starts now. good evening, americans. welcome to oil the ed show" live from new york. let's get to work. >> oil in the united states is what is going to drive this process. >> the world is not going to consume less oil. >> the keystone excel would not have a significant environmental impact. >> okay, this is the great white north on the map. >> the emissions will be what the emissions will be. >> are exceeding levels recorded in the past millions of year! >> has become a political pond, if you will. >> i think this is going to be exactly like chess. >> the fact it's become this political thing is a bit concerning to me. >> we have to discover and produce newable and clean