p.m. eastern tomorrow. "the ed show" starts now. good evening, americans. welcome to oil the ed show" live from new york. let's get to work. >> oil in the united states is what is going to drive this process. >> the world is not going to consume less oil. >> the keystone excel would not have a significant environmental impact. >> okay, this is the great white north on the map. >> the emissions will be what the emissions will be. >> are exceeding levels recorded in the past millions of year! >> has become a political pond, if you will. >> i think this is going to be exactly like chess. >> the fact it's become this political thing is a bit concerning to me. >> we have to discover and produce newable and cleaner sources of energy.

>> emission will be what the emissions will be. >> this is nothing but a red herring. >> we as a company don't have a plan b. >> good to have you with us tonight, folks. thanks for watching. don't you get a little frustrated and irritated when somebody says something to you and, you know, well, that's not 100% true. we're about this right now as the argument continues over the pipeline. in fact, in the 11th hour transcanada i think is making an aggressive push for the keystone excel pipeline and pulling out all stops. on monday, they had a front office dude, a transcanada vice president andrew poor bay who is in charge of development with the corporation. he wrote an op-ed countering all of the opponents' claims on the pipeline saying the oil will not be exported. he says it's not exported. where is it coming from? it's coming from canada to the united states, is that not an

spotter export or do they totally own us? what kind of oil are we talking about? he was quoted as saying the reality as transcanada corporation ceo russ girling has said, quoting the boss now is not a drop of oil transported through keystone would be exported, period. what he is saying is everything that comes through the pipeline isn't going to be exported. it's pretty bold claim and that is like saying, actually, we are going to be exporting water and putting oil in the pipeline. what is it, dude? they are desperate. they are feeling the heat and they are afraid that president obama is going to say no to this. some environmental concerns were addressed by pointing to the state department report. think about this. they are using the state department report as some of the best ammunition out there to get this approved. he says with input from more than two dozen state and federal agencies, the environmental and market issues have been

exhaustively reviewed and concerns debunked. really? they are quoting the state department report which a lot of americans think is still flawed. now, on the site, the state department report in two additional areas. this is what he is talking about. first, he says the keystone xl will not affect the demand for heavy crude. think about that. it won't affect the demand for heavy crude. then why send it over american land if it's not going to be marketedly based. poorbay claims that tar sands oil production trends down yard on carbon intensity. whoa. now you know what i meant when i started this program saying do you ever hear somebody say that is totally 100%? i have heard from three different scientists. geologists say the tar sand soil is toxic than anything else that

is being refined on the face of the perth whop is telling the truth? we are back to the thing i talked about last week. you got to find them over here and over there and give me some absolutes. who is telling the truth here? he never addressed the risk to the aquifer and never talked about the risks that american landowners are going to have. he also never brings up the issue of eminent domain and constitutional rights there in the heart of the country. the bread basket of american ain't sold on this. he just claims that the state department report has debunked environmental concerns. i've debunk the environment concerns. what is the difference of me saying that and oil executive saying that debunked environmental concerns. i think it's hard to argue with images like this in mayflower, arkansas. when pipelines burst, some real bad stuff happens.

it is an impact on the environment and the community. it is devastating. no matter how safe transcanada claims the pipeline will be, there is no way they can guarantee that there won't be a spill. it is more than possible. it is an absolute. there will be spills. and there will be damage. he doesn't mention transcanada's shaky record on pipeline safety. hold it right there! we haven't talked enough about this but they are having quite the conversation about transcanada north of the border. you see in late 2012, a whistle-blower, someone who wanted to tell somebody something step forward alleged transcanada was using substandard welding practices and not properly inspecting their pipelines? wow. that's a heck of a claim. these folks want to put a pipe right through our land? here is more on this story from the canadian broadcasting company. check it out. >> pipeline operators like

transcanada are supposed to hire their own inspectors during construction. it's to make sure that a contractor doesn't put pressure on the inspector to signed off on work that is not up to code. following the rules can mean slow construction and inflated buckets but they are designed to keep canadians safe. if those pipes rupture, it could lead to spills or even explosions. >> it's safety over the long term of the pipeline. >> reporter: meet evan vokes. he used to work at canada's head office in downtown calgary. now a whistle-blower and speaking only on camera to cbc news alleging transcanadian didn't always follow the rules around inspection. >> asking the company to do the right thing and to allow the energy to be the engineering. it absolutely matters because we don't know what the long-term risks are. we have to control the ones that we can during construction. >> reporter: now after examining the evidence he brought, the neb

says transcanada has admitted many of the allegations of regulatory noncompliance identified by the complainant were verified by transcanada's internal awed pit. the neb said the problems don't pose element risk to safety and transcanada wouldn't agree to an interview but in statement said it now hires these inspectors directly and believes any problems were caught through routine quality control processes before any pipes were turned on. evan vokes isn't convinced everything is being caught. >> but the consequence is so deadly high. like when it does come around it's bad. >> reporter: vokes says his growing concern led to angry outbursts in company meetings. he was put on stress leave and fired by transcanada earlier this year but not before contacting the national energy board with his concerns. diane sway, cnbc news, toronto.

>> they got liberal media up north, don't they? did you catch that noncompliance? you mean we are dealing with less than honest brokers here? bottom line here is that canadian national energy board just completed an audit on the whistle-blower's allegations. the toronto star reporting the board found transcanada noncompliant, not in one, two, or three, but four areas. here is the list. bottom line here is hazard identification. they are not compliant according to the canadian energy board. their risk assessment and control. rink assessment does that mean they will put the pipe where they want and not worry about it. they have diseficiencies in operate agriculture control and upset or ab normal conditions and inspection and measurement and monitoring and management review. you want your pipe inspected down there in nebraska if this thing goes through?

do you want measurement and monitoring consistent and management review? who is the oversight in all of this once it's in the ground? do you want to take that risk? the report does say, the report does say that transcanada has taken action to correct these issues. all after the fact. bottom line here, folks, is that i don't think america should be taking this risk to put an over the aquifer which affects how many states in our rich tradition of being able to produce food in this country? remember, remember, remember, remember. if there is a leak in the pipeline over the aquifer it is irreversible damage and nobody from the front office of the oil company is willing to say i'm wrong on that. we are not dealing with honest brokers. they are wordsmithing an awful lot as of late. get your cell phones out and tonight's question. do you trust transcanada to be honest brokers?

text a for yes and b to know to 67622 or go to our blog at msnbc.com and we will bring you results later on the in the show. i want to bring in bernie sanders, a senator from vermont. what is your thought on transcanada using the state department bullet points and report to make their case for the pipeline? what are your thoughts on that? >> i think it's an outrage. i think you have raised very important points about the irreversibility of the kinds of damage we feel could happen if there is a major oil spill into an aquifer at a time when we have real water problems in america, this could be an unmitigated disaster but there is another issue out there and that is even broader and i think more significant and that is that the scientific community has been extremely clear.

climate change is real. climate change is caused by man-made activities. climate change with or without oil leaks is already causing massive damage in our country and around the world in terms of drought, in terms of flooding, in terms of wildfire, in terms of extreme weather disturbances. in my view, we have a moral obligation, our generation does, not to leave the planet for our children and grandchildren in an uninhabitable way. >> totally agree. that really is the fundamental issue here. what are we doing to the planet and what are we leaving for the next generation? >> exactly. >> and if there is a terrible mishap, can we reverse it? the answer is no. senator, last night, you were part of this. you held an all-night event with other senate democrats to discuss climate change. now, mitch mcconnell took some

time to criticize you and the rest. here it is. >> there is a depression in appalachian, an absolute depression. families are losing work because of government attacks on the coal industry. communities are hurting. tonight, you're going to hear 30 hours of excuses from a group of people who think that's okay. >> senator, your response to that. >> i mean, he's wrong in so many ways. the reason that the coal industry is in decline is that electric companies now have found the cheapest source of fuel in terms of gas, but the more important point where he is wrong is not only do we have a moral imperative to transform our energy system away from fossil fuels and greenhouse gas emissions, if we are smart, if we use the american ingenuity that we know we have, we can create huge numbers of new jobs

in terms of energy efficiency and weatherization all over this country and people are living in buildings and in homes where heat is just going right through the walls and the roofs. we can create jobs in solar and wind and geo thermal and in many other areas. we can lead the world. help dhchina, india and russia move in that direction so mcconnell is wrong in many ways. >> i think this is a very profound point. not to be critical. there has not been a uniform statement from the senate democrats on the pipeline yet. i think it's great that last night that there was this, you know, presentation on the senate floor. it happens very seldom in american history. but how can any senator try to tackle climate change while supporting the pipeline? and why don't the senate democrats who are against the pipeline send a clear message to the president, we do not want

this, you need to set the bar here that we say no to the oil companies. your thoughts, senator. >> i agree. and some of us have done just that. you know, the president has -- i know in his heart understands the significance of climate change and the need to transfer the energy system and put a lot of money into energy-efficient and weatherization projects. but i think people all over this country will really be scratching their heads if the president approves a pipeline which encourages the dirtiest form, excavation of the dirtiest form of oil which kind of continues to promote fossil fuels and a real krcontradictio in terms of everything he has said. so i -- transform our energy system and get the president on

board. >> senator, does that mean that there is going to be a unified statement from the 28 and maybe more democrats that stepped up? >> well, you know, you got 55 people in the caucus and i can't guarantee every one of them will be on board. but a number of us will. >> senator, would you consider going to nebraska? >> to take a look at the impacts of a leak? >> yes, sir. >> on their aquifer? yeah, i would, yeah. >> senator bernie sanders, good to have you with us tonight. remember to answer tonight's question at the bottom of the screen and share us your thoughts with us tonight on facebook and twitter. we always want to though what you think. trade deals in u.s. manufacturing which is known as good old steel. i sat down with frustrated steel workers in ohio. part of our new series "fighting chance american steel." >> i'm fighting mad like everybody else in this room.

enough is enough. we deserve better. we are better. let's act like it. first, why conservatives are dusting on off their obamacare lies. stick around. we are right back for more of "the ed show." we tackled your shoulder pain. you make him rookie of the year. we took care of your cold symptoms. you take him on an adventure. tylenol® has been the number 1 doctor recommended brand of pain reliever for over 20 years. but for everything we do, we know you do so much more. tylenol®. afghanistan, in 2009. orbiting the moon in 1971. [ male announcer ] once it's earned, usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection.

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time for social media action and where you can find us. appreciate you following. radio show on sirius xm 127 monday through friday and channel 127. get my radio podcast. social media nation has decided we are reporting. here are today's top trenders voted on by you.

>> here he is, mr. popular! >> the number three trender. poll position. >> i'm seriously considering running again for my senate seat. >> only 30% of arizonians approve of the job mccain is doing. >> down to blood relatives. >> public policy polling says a dislike of mccain is what people with agree upon. >> i can sense the people in my state. they like me. >> you like me! >> and i'm very grateful. >> the number two trender. bernie's story. >> like yesterday is barack obama, president barack obama. he is actually quite charming but it kind of stinks you can't run three times. >> if i ran a third time it would be like doing a third "hangover." it didn't really work out so well, did it? >> president obama gets between two ferns to promote health care. >> have you heard of

healthcare.g healthcare.gov? >> here we go. >> i wouldn't be with you today if i didn't have something to say. >> why didn't you create the zune to make your website? >> healthcare.gov makes great now. you can't discriminate against you if you have a preexisting condition any more. >> is this what they nmean by drones? >> ad nauseam today's top trender. >> i found a great health care plan. my insurance was cancelled because of obamacare. peters you jeopardized my health. >> right wingers with another health care live. >> i get why they say it's not exactly right. this woman is going to save over 1,000 a year. but it's not this flat-out like whopper she lied! >> it appears serious problems and questions in her story. it's fraud. all of the negative stories not one of them is true. >> joining me tonight is wendall potter a senior analyst author

of the ebook obama care, "what's in it for me?" good to have you with us tonight. like we are in this phase two of the lying now. people were dropping, getting their insurance stopped before, you know, what the president said you can keep it if you like it, that kind of stuff. now we are getting into the actual payment and the benefits and these continuous false attacks on obamacare. what kind of impact will they have, do you think? >> i think that the people who are already predisposed to not trust obamacare to be opposed to any idea about reform will believe this and that's the intention is it's about politics, he'd. it's about trying to persuade people to vote against their own best interests and exactly what we are seeing right now. >> some democrats running for re-election are out there saying i'm going to fix obamacare and if you like your insurance you should keep it two more years.

it's a quick bullet point and hard thing to push back with a couple of sentences. the fact is fountain democrats were to go along with this, they would be really, you know, blowing up the foundation of what a lot of this bill was all about and that was to clean up the insurance industry to make sure junk insurance on the market was taken off. you can say junk insurance to this person is different to junk insurance to somebody else. it would be undercutting the standards the industry has to meet. how should the democrats handle this? >> they should not be saying that junk policies can continue to be sold. that is the wrong thing. because it is doing something that is against the best interests of their constituents. no one should be in a junk policy and no one should be in a plan that has an annual or lifetime cap as so many of these policies do. nobody should be in policies that have sky high dedeductibles. a lot of people are enticed into

these plans thinking they are getting a good deal because they may have relatively low premiums but find out when it's too late after they get sick or injured they are on the hook for so much money that they might go bankrupt. this is not a good thing for any politician's constituents. >> it would behoove them to this approach. what does it say about advocates groups when they lie what is happening to real people's lives? isn't that just an admission of defeat? >> it really is but it is something we are going to continue to see i think between now and election day. they know they have to lie about this law. they will find people who are susceptible to being told things that aren't true and even to lie as we have seen in some of these commercials. they will find those people and doing this to mislead and it's been going on a long time. it's one of the reasons i left my job in the industry because

it is a tactic that has been used for a long time to confuse people and mislead them to get them to essentially, like i said to think and vote against their own best interests. >> the administration says over 4.2 million people have enrolled in health care since october 1st. obviously, the website is working or the conservative media would be all over it. you like this number? is this a good number? where are we going to be at the end of this month? >> it's a pretty good number where we are right now. just think. this is just for five months, 4.2 million americans who didn't have insurance or people who signed up for coverage. that's in addition to about 4.5 million people who have been deemed eligible for medicaid under the medicaid expansion. we are talking pretty close already to 9 million people who are going to be able to get coverage under this new law. that's pretty good in my book and we still got several weeks to go and keep in mind that the

eligibility for medicaid does not end on march 31st. >> are premiums coming down for americans who are involved in the affordable care act? >> absolutely. in fact, i think 83% of those who signed up so far are getting tax credits and subsidies to bring down the cost of their premiums. they are getting -- people are getting better insurance and, in many cases, those who are signing up for coverage through the exchanges are getting better deals and paying less for better coverage. >> you and i were talking about this back in the spring of 2009. it's the spring of 2014! okay? this is how long it takes. so the question begs where are we going to be five years from now? we could be into the 30 million people affected by this. >> well, in fact, every one of us is affected in a positive way. and a lot of the benefits are just not in the headlines. i benefit. you benefit. everyone who is watching this are benefiting in some important

way. insurance companies are having to be much more consumer friendly than they ever have been in the past so we have a lot of protections most of us are not aware of right now. >> wendall potter, great to have you on "the ed show." thank you for your expertise and thanks so much. coming up, we head to lorraine, ohio, the city steel workers are at risk of losing everything. i sat down with workers from this once booming steel town to bring you their store. later, the investigation into the new jersey bridgegate scandal continues with ex-christie staffer bridget kelly appearing in court today. next, i'm taking your questions. we are are right back. ♪ [ woman ] the day of my first presentation?

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thanks for watching and thanks for the questions and love this segment "ask ed live." our question is the first one from barbara. why do people follow the hate and not the truth?

well, it's -- we live in a bullet point culture. it's easier to be against something than it is to be positive and for something. and so the narrative is really narrowed down. after all, there is only two letters in the word no. our next question is from terry. will walker win re-election in wisconsin? well, the latest e-mail dump and also the john doe investigation number two doesn't bode well for the low performing governor but he is going to be well funded and he'll have plenty of money to lie so i'd say it's 50/50 at this point. there is a lot more coming up on "the ed show." stay with us. i'm hampton pearson with your market wrap. a down day for stocks. dow falls 67 points. the s&p is off 9. the nasdaq sheds 27 points.

gm shares slid more than 5% today. according to reports, federal prosecutors in new york are launching a criminal investigation into the company's ignition switch recall. the problem is linked to 13 deaths. testla shares lost ground after new jersey banned the direct sale of vehicles to consumers. the company is criticizing the move. that's it from cnbc first in business worldwide. are you still sleeping? just wanted to check and make sure that we were on schedule.

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♪ where you think you're gonna go ♪ ♪ when your time's all gone? [ male announcer ] live a full life. the new lexus ct hybrid with an epa estimated 42 mpg. ♪ the further you go, the more interesting it gets. this is the pursuit of perfection. welcome back to "the ed show." tonight we begin out special series "fighting chance american steel." we here elected officials talk about the middle class on a regular basis. we have to save the middle class and middle class american jobs is what it's all about. tonight, i want you to focus on

this middle class town that has very few elected official willing to step up. how do you feel when you get laid off, when you knows these market pressures are the cause of all of this? >> it's a big hit to your pride and i'm a pretty straightforward guy but a couple of days i look and knowing i was going to get laid off and i was on my couch looking at my budget and all of my bills, you know, almost in tears because i was looking at, you know, how am i going to make this bill and this bill work and how am i going to do this? and it's pretty rough. ♪ >> reporter: it's friday night in middle america here in lorraine, ohio, at the american legion. these steel workers work together, they play together and they solve problems together.

and as a community, they have each other's back. a south korean agreement putting them on edge. it's on the mind of everyone. >> i hear the orders are slow mostly because foreign markets were pushing pipe into our -- into our country and into the world market at a cost at less than what we can make it. i mean, if we hit solid pipe at a certain amount of price so our company remains profitable and our union workers keep working and there is companies and countries selling that pipe that meets up to almost what our quality specifications are but they are selling at the time tat a considerable cost less because they are not using union labor or child labor whatever their country deems they can build that same product, as corporations in this country and in a capitalist society, they are going to buy that pipe and

save money because of their profit margin, and doing so, it's reduced our orders down, so that our mills working at a creeping pace and a lot of the younger employees like myself are now unemployed. >> reporter: with all of the things you describe about the market and the price, you just take a step back and say, why are we doing this? >> yeah. we cutting our own throats. if you were to make profit margins for corporations which are driving out the middle class in the long run, then those tax incomes that the middle class is making, theron going to be there. so then you're going to have a group of people that are making walmart wages left and they are having to collect welfare just so they can put food on their

table. >> reporter: the steel industry in lorraine, ohio go back to 1985. it resolves on this plant. >> this is the third generation steel worker. this is what we know in the city of lorraine. steel is lorraine. and the direction that we are going, we are proud. we're proud. we will always be proud when it comes to steel making in lorraine. we just need a level playing field like everybody is saying. give us the opportunity and we will show. we always do. >> lorraine has a long history of steel making and i'm third generation also. both of my grandfathers worked in the mill and retired from the mill. my father worked in the mill. >> reporter: this is what you want to do? >> this is what i want to do. i enjoy what i do. i help the community by doing what i do and i just hope that the future is there for the

generations behind me to also provide. >> reporter: they are sick of politicians talking about the middle class and then making deals with countries that undercut their way of life. >> blame here by u.s. steel that south korea was selling tubing here and in the u.s. below cost. but you know what the u.s. commerce department says, nope. so now putting tariffs on other countries and not south korea and that provides some direct competition to some of our skill makers here at home. >> reporter: does it infuriate you what washington is doing? >> yes. sure. >> who is making the decisions there? >> the servants worried about taking care of the public and not special interests and what it comes down to. you turn on the tv every day, we are talking about takers and entitlements. well, if it's not for good paying jobs and investment in this country, then supporting of

our infrastructure, you know, where are we going to be in ten years, 15 years, 20 years? what kind of opportunities will my kids have? let's not even get to the point where we are talking about my kids and my grandkids. we are just talking about my children. we are talking about everybody's children in this room. you know, the abuse that is going on by our so-called public servants and not allowing hard working americans to fully utilize the capacity and skill and our talents, it's a disgrace. >> outrageous. >> i'm fighting mad like everybody else in this room. >> yeah. >> enough is enough. we deserve better. we are better. let's act like it. >> reporter: some jobs have been lost. and there could be more to come, which puts pressure on the safety net. there are some politicians, one in particular, paul ryan who

would call a guy like you a taker. >> you know what i've taken in my life? i've taken a lot of [ bleep ] if they say i'm a taker for collecting unemployment because my job is not there at this moment for me to work, the state of ohio, i have to put in two applications a week to try to find a job. i just paid money out of my pocket which my funds are already tight to rebuild my computer today so that i can pull my resume out so i can send my resume to places. you know, i'm not a taker. i just don't want to be taken advantage of it. >> chinese almost dumped the deal less than a decade ago but it took the brink of total bankruptcy, the brink of the entire end of the industry for the government to step in and do something. what we're saying is -- and what we are hoping, you know -- we're hoping everyone realizes we need to stop the backsliding before it's a catastrophe. we are already in dire straits.

you know? but we need to slow this erosion of the american dream. >> so when you hear politicians talk about middle class jobs and supporting the middle class it all starts with trade agreements. it all starts with a level playing field. now, that steel mill, we are going to show you a lot more because we are going to be doing a lot more stories in our series "fighting chance american steel." this isn't your grandpa's steel mill. this is high tech manufacturing. these are the best workers in the world. they produce better steel than anybody else on the planet but they are being undercut by south korea because we got a lousy trade agreement and yet thinking about doing another one? ttp? i think not. hats off big time to u.s. steel. the company has invested over 200 million dollars in lorraine, ohio, over the last two years. they are willing to bank on the american worker. they are willing to bank on the

american steel industry. but they got to have people in washington who are going to understand that investment, understand investment in workers in the middle class, and jobs. good paying jobs. and quality environmentally safe steel. that is not the case what is coming into this country. we got a lot to talk about in this series. up next, new details on bridgegate. the scandal continues. stick around. [ male announcer ] this is karen and jeremiah. they don't know it yet, but they're gonna fall in love,

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larson radio show to whine about arizona's failed discriminatory bill. >> the thing i think is getting a little tiresome is the gay community thinks they have so bullied the american people and the politicians fear them and think they get to dictate the agenda everywhere. >> bachmann is scraping the bottom of the victimization barrel. here is how bullied bachmann felt when she was ranting about the gay community back in four. >> people who are dealing with the very real issue of sexual dysfunction in their life and sexual identity disorders. this is a very real issue. it's not funny. it's sad. any of you who have members of your family that are in the lifestyle, we have a member of our family that is, this is not funny. it's a very sad life. it's part of satan, i think, to say this is gay. >> it's not funny. but it is sad, isn't it?

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welcome back to "the ed show." two central figures in the new jersey bridgegate scandal refuse to turn over documents required by subpoena today. new jersey governor chris christie's now fired deputy chief of staff. bridget kelly made her first court appearance in the wake of the washington bridge lane

closures. kelly was behind the infamous e-mail, "time for some traffic problems in new jersey." today bridget kelly's attorney argued for her fifth amendment protection against self-incrimination. he said kelly cannot be forced to turn over subpoenaed documents which include personal e-mails and calendars because the information would provide testimony which could be used against her. >> since the time this subpoena was issued, we have received even more e-mails for which mr. kelly or mr. stepien are on and text messages. so it's not an inference. it's a knowledge at this point that they are on a considerable number of communications related to these issues. >> the lawyer for former christie campaign manager, bill stepien, was also in court. stepien did not appear today. stepien was set to be the state gop chair before the scandal broke. the argument by both parties is that complying with the subpoenas carries the risk of self-incrimination.

let's bring in david corn, mother jones washington bureau chief and msnbc political analyst. david, good to have you with us tonight. >> good to be with you, ed. >> you bet. it doesn't seem like bridget kelly or bill stepien have something to hide by withholding e-mails and text messages. it certainly seems like they're clearly trying to protect themselves. and by doing this, they leave more questions than answer. your thoughts on this. >> well, i think what they're doing is drawing this out. which actually is bad for chris christie. you know, this is a long, complicated investigation, not just into the lane closures, but what has been going on with the port authority and all sorts of possible conflicts of interest and the use of sandy money for political leverage. you know, if his presidential ambitions are not toast already, they're going to be that if this keeps going on for six months, another year or so. so i think it's mostly inevitable. most of the lawyers i talked to say that the defense that

stepien, kelly are putting up at this point on the subpoenas is not sustainable. >> that's the next question. do their fifth amendment rights cover everything? >> if that was the case, then no legislative body could ever investigate the executive branch. if congress, the u.s. congress wanted to investigate the white house, the white house could just say fifth amendment. they want to investigate the epa, the same thing. so this is work-related product. even if they used their personal text messages or personal e-mails for work-related business, which they're not supposed to do, the legislative committee, which is not about indicting people, which is not about bringing up criminal charges, should have the right to do this. otherwise, government oversight is meaningless. >> so bridget kelly and bill stepien are just exhausting every possible effort they can before they might have to step forward and say something. i mean, about 32 people from organizations close to the governor have been subpoenaed.

i mean, are any of them going to cooperate to the point where there is going to be a conviction? >> well, we have a long way to go. we see that the u.s. attorney in new jersey is probably enlarging his investigation, and he is taking over subpoenas that were issued by the u.s. attorney in new york targeting the port authority. i think this could become a very complicated, wide-ranging investigation, and may take, you know, months if not years to get indictments if we get to that point. but in the meantime, you know, the way these things work is, until the prosecutor has something on a particular individual, they kind of hold firm. but at some point, people start making deals, and they say well, i can tell you a more interesting story if you give me immunity, which is happening in the prosecution side, not on the legislative side. i think on the legislative side, you know, stepien and kelly are just going do whatever they can to put off the final moment of doom. >> the speculation on this, the

intrigue just continues to grow. i go back to the original press conference. governor christie, either he had this thing so wired, he thought there was no way anybody was going to turn, or the guy is flat-out telling the truth. something is going to shake out of this. he is either going to be the ultimate hero and the truth seeker in it all, or somebody is going to turn and prove that he was a part of this and aware of it and did nothing about it. isn't that where it's going? >> well, i think it's maybe muddier than that. if you read "the new york times" piece out today about how chris christie used the port authority and much of its resources as a political piggy bank, which has been done by others in the past, but it's never been put under such scrutiny. i think that other stuff is going to come out. and the lane closures may be the least of chris christie's problems when these investigations, plural, are finished. >> why are the democrats so

quiet? i find it interesting that nothing has really leaked out of these investigations in all the wrangling that has taken place. normally the culture of stories like this, something leaks. oh, christie did know there was a text message, or somebody knows somebody that is on the committee. don't you find that interesting? >> well, u.s. prosecutors sometimes leak, sometimes don't. patrick fitzgerald, who prosecuted scooter libby down here in washington was notorious for not leaking. believe me, it caused me a lot of pain at the time. but legislative bodies, the legislative committees on the state level -- >> they like to talk. >> they like to talk. but they tend to be small. but it's smart for them not to leak now. they don't want this to be accused of being a partisan witch-hunt and prosecuting this investigation through leaks in the press. so i think right now they play it by the numbers, get to the bottom of this. that's really what the public wants. >> all right, david corn, mother jones, good to have you with us tonight. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> tomorrow, we will talk to

transcanada whistle-blower. he'll talk about the lack of oversight on the keystone xl pipeline. "politicsnation" with reverend al sharpton starts right now. good evening, rev. good evening, ed. thanks to you for tuning in. tonight the gop's alternate reality on obamacare. with less than three weeks until the deadline for americans to sign up for health insurance, the right wing is in overdrive to do something, anything to try to undermine the law. house republicans have announced they will hold their 51st vote against obama care, yes, sure, 51st time is the charm. give me a break. and outside washington, many conservatives are trying to spread as much misinformation as possible. the billionaire koch