a violation of the territorial integrity and sovereignty of ukraine. and we have been very firm in saying that we will stand with ukraine and the ukrainian people in ensuring that that territorial integrity and sovereignty is maintained. i think we all recognize there are historic ties between russia and ukraine, and i think the prime minister would be the first one to acknowledge that. and i think the prime minister and the current government in kiev has recognized and has communicated directly to the russian federation their desire to try to manage through this process diplomatically. but what the prime minister, i think, has rightly insisted on is that they cannot have a country outside of ukraine dictate to them how they should arrange their affairs, and there

is a constitutional process in place and a set of elections that they can move forward on that, in fact, could lead to different arrangements over time with the crimean region. but that is not something that can be done with barrel of a n gun pointed at you. and so, secretary kerry is in communications with the russian government and has offered to try to explore with his counterpart, foreign minister lavrov, a diplomatic solution to this crisis. we are in close communication with the ukrainian government in terms of how we might proceed going forward. but we will continue to say to the russian government that if it continues on the path that it is on, then not only us, but the international community, the european union, and others, will

be forced to apply a cost to russia's violations of international law and its encroachments on ukraine. there's another path available, and we hope that president putin is willing to seize that path. but if he does not, i'm very confident that the international community will stand strongly behind the ukrainian government in preserving its unity and its territorial integrity. let me just make two final points. obviously, because of the political turmoil, the economic situation in ukraine has become more challenging, not less. and that's why i'm very proud that not only as critical members of the international monetary fund, the imf, we are working with the prime minister and his team in a package that

can help to institute necessary reforms inside of the ukraine, but also help to stabilize the situation so that people feel confident that in their daily lives they can meet the basic necessities. we're also asking congress to act promptly to deliver on an aid package, including a $1 billion loan guarantee, that can help smooth the path for reform inside of ukraine and give the prime minister and his government the capacity to do what they need to do as they are also organizing an election process. so i would just ask both democrats and republicans, who i know are unified in their support of ukraine, to move quickly, to give us the support that we need so that we can give the ukrainian people the support that they need. and then, finally, mr. prime minister, i would ask that you deliver a message on behalf of

the american people, to all the ukrainian people, and that is that we admire their courage. we appreciate their aspirations. the interests of the united states are solely in making sure that the people of ukraine are able to determine their own destiny. that is something here in the united states we believe in deeply. i know it's something that you believe in deeply, as well. and you can rest assured that you will have our strong support as you move forward during these difficult times. so thank you. >> thank you, mr. president. and we highly appreciate the support that you have given to the ukrainian people, and my country feels that the united states stands by the ukrainian people. mr. president, it's all about

the freedom. we fight for our freedom. we fight for our independence. we fight for our sovereignty. and we will never surrender. my country has faced a number of challenges. the military one is a key challenge today, and we urge russia to stick to its international obligations, to pull back its military and to start the dialogue -- with no gun, with no military, with no tank, but with the diplomacy and political tools. on behalf of my government, i would like to reiterate that we are absolutely ready and open for talks with the russian federation. we adhere to -- >> that was president obama speaking moments ago after his meeting with the interim prime minister of arseniy yatsenyuk.

>> a major split -- >> explosive charges. >> -- between the cia director and senior senate democrats. >> did the intelligence agency actually spy on a congressional investigation? >> these are very serious allegations. >> senator dianne feinstein called those acts unconstitutional -- >> for the cia to be accessing a senate computer is completely unacceptable. >> getting awfully close to see senators call for brennan to step down. >> this is a relationship that has to be good for the agency and do its job. it has to be good for the senate to do its job. >> we need to make sure the agency did not break any laws. >> that would destroy the legislative-cia relationship. >> oversight is adversarial, particularly when it's controversial activities. >> there has been an ongoing senate investigation into enhanced interrogation techniques, controversial activity of detention and intensive interrogation techniques. >> there are senate democrats who believe brennan is trying to whitewash history on this, and that is at the root of this

problem. when california senator dianne feinstein took to the floor yesterday to accuse the central intelligence agency of spying on the senate intelligence committee and secretly removing controversial documents, one of the darkest chapters in american history was reopened. right in broad daylight. in the hours since the allegations were first made public, a crisis over constitutionality and the separation of powers has unfolded. one between the cia and the very body designed to oversee it. but at the heart of all this, what this dispute is really about is the cia's enhanced interrogation program under president george w. bush. under this program, suspects were subjected to torture and other extraordinarily harsh treatments, all in name of extracting information that was supposed to safeguard the united states from another terrorist attack. the central concern of the enhanced interrogation program, as it was officially known, has

never been answered. did torture keep us safer? the answer to that question may lie somewhere in a 6,300-page senate report and in a secret internal investigation carried out by the cia, both of which are classified. those documents are at the center of the tug of war now unfolding between the senate and the cia, and they are the documents the cia appears desperate to keep secret. one of the most egregious cases of torture under the cia program was abu zhubada, an associate of osama bin laden captured in 2002 and is being held at guantanamo bay. in her 2008 book, "the dark side," jane maher provided a glimpse into what the cia did to him. he was locked into a tiny coffin for hours on end. he described being thrust head first against a bare concrete wall. he was kept naked and doused repeatedly with cold water and

kept in frigid temperatures. after all of this, he said he had lost a testicle and had ongoing complications from bullet wiounds to his head and thigh. these horrifying details of reminder of what american intelligence officials did in the name of security. it's a chapter many would prefer remain closed, including the cia. in 2007, "the new york times" documented the two operatives. one was zubayda. at the time, two lawyers approved the destruction of the tapes. one of the lawyers is now the acting counsel for the agency, a man who senator feinstein said is mentioned 1,600 times in her committee's report. a man who is apparently leading the charge against the senate intelligence committee. to be clear, the man who

sanctioned the agency's torture program and approved the destruction of 92 pieces of evidence, that man, is now acting counsel for the cia. but all the secrecy, all this o opacity was according to the guy in charge.to t guy in charge. this after the attacks on september 11th -- >> we have to work sort of the dark side, if you will, we have to spent time in the shadows in the intelligence world, a lot of what needs to be done here will have to be done quietly without any discussion, using sources, methods that are available to our intelligence agencies. if we're going to be successful. that's the world these folks operate in. so it will be vital for us to use any means at our disposal basically to achieve our objective. >> joining me now is the executive director of the aclu, anthony romero. and from washington, editor for

"editor" john ackerman. the guy who basically sat in the room and said, yes, these practices are okay, torture is in the interests of the american national security, is the acting council for the central intelligence agency. how did that happen in. >> it's because we didn't really follow through with change, right? we were told by the president that we would have change. at the end, we had many of the same policies. in fact, many of the same people in the positions all throughout. it's not surprising to find some of the individuals who played leadership roles in the bush administration are the very same people playing the roles in the obama administrationment that's part of the problem with this. when we decided we wouldn't look back, we would only go forward, we didn't really grapple with the mistakes of the past. and that's why we can recycle some of the worst of individuals and some of the worst policies. even though the president's retired the network of secret prisons and said we won't torture, we haven't grapple with the fact that we broke the

law. we broke domestic law and international law. >> spencer, let me ask you, the involvement of senator dianne feinste feinstein, who has been a great defender of the intelligence services to this point, the fact she was on the floor of the u.s. senate questioning the constitutionality of the cia, the fact other senator, some democrats, have come out and questioned whether john brennan should keep his job, we think we're past this chapter in american history. but it is to clear in moments like this it's still being written. how likely is it, do you think, that this will end in charges of criminality somewhere? >> extremely difficult to say, especially given there's two different people -- sets of people being looked at on criminal charges. one of the sets is the senate staff. that's going to be an extremely difficult proposition politically, not even getting to the question of law. does the justice department really want to go after members of the senate -- staffers for the senate? that's going to determine probably a whole lot of blowback, definitely a lot of

acrimonyny. on the cia side, the justice department under obama has shown a real extreme reluctance to look at all of -- about any aspect of the torture program, at all. now that this has come back on them, in the most ironic possible way, about a cover-up, it's a real interesting question whether the justice department will decide it wants to go after the cia for covering up the thing that it wouldn't go after them for doing. >> you know, anthony, on some level, one can't imagine how no one could be sort of charged, or be forced to set down. and then on the same level, the implication here that the cia conducted its own internal review and answered that question -- did torture keep us safer, and said, no, it did not -- that the cia determined that is damning for every bush administration official who sanctioned it and everyone in the intelligence service -- >> even as they tried to disregard the rulings and

findings of senator feinstein's report. let's relish it for a moment. why is senator feinstein so worked up about the possibility of the cia spying on her if she and her staff members have nothing to hide, and why should she be worried? of course, i'm being ironic. she should be very worried. >> you think she -- because she was involved in approving some of this could be implicated. >> well, no, it fundamentally disrupts the checks and balances, how can the congressional oversight committee do its job properly if the intelligence committee will spy on the agency doing its job. here's a senator not a great friend of ours in terms of surveillance issue, she's been one of the greatest opponents to rein in the surveillance programs, one of the great defenders of the intelligence community, finally finding herself, wait a minute, i might be the subject of the cia's own spying progr ining program. and my staff might be spied upon. here you have, one of the great defenders of the cia, privately

the senator feinstein, i'm told, i read, has been critical of the cia. publicly, she's been one of its greatest defenders. and now she finds herself under the scrutiny of the very people that she has -- that she has spent some of her political capital defending. and it really is quite ironic. i think there's so much here in terms of the spying of the cia, on a senate, the oversight of the senate on the cia for illegal torture. the idea that the american people are still the last to know. >> yeah. well, i mean, i think that's a huge piece of this. >> right. enormous piece. >> when you hear about the lack of -- not only the lack of oversight, the destruction of the videotapes, which, of course, came out in 2007, spencer. but the -- how is that possibly legal? my colleague chris hayes was talking about this earlier today. the notion that you would destroy evidence effectively seems not something that should be legal in our american justice system. let me ask you about this sort

of in terms of legality and counsel here. the man that we think dianne feinstein -- the senator -- may have been speaking of. >> robert eddinger. >> yes. and he is acting counsel, which means he's an interim director or counsel. and he may be replaced by president obama's nominee, a woman named caroline crass. now, there is push-back in the wake of this, i'm going to call it a scandal, on her nomination. how much do you think this sort of -- this will derail it? >> it's a tremendous, tremendous problem for caroline crass, who was a justice department lawyer in the office of legal counsel. right now, senator udall, who's one of the committee's leading advocates of disclosing the torture report, or at least part of the torture report, it's significant to say we probably won't see most of it, is holding up her nomination in order to get increased disclosure of this report. at the same time, that just puts

the administration, and particularly the cia, in more of a bind, given the conflict of interest that feinstein identified eddinger of being directly centered around. when he's advising people inside the cia about what looks like how to launder what would in another context be probably criminal acts in order to keep performing them, and at the same time obstructing not only just the cia's -- i'm sorry, the senates investigation of this activity, but referring its own staff doing the investigating to the justice department for tremendous -- for possible criminal ties. i mean, this is just a tremendous, tremendous problem. i wonder how long eddinger can stay in this job. >> anthony, before i have to wrap it here. the white house, this president came in -- i mean, he has a constitutional law professor. he has been hit with a lot in terms of national security. national security leaks. questions over the use of our drone program. and now this.

and my question to you, we know dennis mcdonough, his chief. staff, met with senator feinstein yesterday. are you at all optimistic reforms will be made in the second term? >> i'm not so optimistic. i think the senate -- i think senator feinstein's recent controversy shows that this is still the unfortunate code of the obama presidency. that in many other places where they've done great work -- on gay rights, on questions around abortion and health care reform. but the question of national security, there's been too little change. many of the same policies are still in place. some of the same people are in place. without a clear break of the past, without willing to look back, how can we move forward? >> yeah. and as the president said, quoting faulkner in the past, it isn't even past, i'm pa paraphrasing terribly. thank you both for your time. coming up, republicans were not exactly bullish on last night's special election in florida until they were.

and the result wasn't a referendum on the affordable care act until it was. take-aways from florida 13 just ahead. first, a deadly explosion levels two new york city apartment buildings, and rescue workers are searching the rubble for the missing. we'll get a live report next on "now." ♪ humans -- we are beautifully imperfect creatures, living in an imperfect world. that's why liberty mutual insurance has your back, offering exclusive products

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we are following breaking news this afternoon right here in new york city, after an explosion rips through two buildings in upper manhattan. at least two people are dead, two dozen injured and others missing after two five-story buildings in east harlem collapsed. following what is believed to be a gas leak explosion. the thunderous blast occurred right by the tracks for the metro-north commuter railroad which temporarily you spended service in and out of the city to remove debris. mayor de blasio spoke earlier today. >> from what we know now, the only indication of danger came about 15 minutes earlier when a gas leak was reported to con

edison. con ed dispatched a team immediately to respond. the explosion occurred before that team could arrive. >> mayor de blasio called it the worst kind of tragedy, because it occurred before anyone could get there in time. joining me now is nbc's katie terr on the scene. hi, katie. what is the latest in terms of rescue efforts? >> reporter: they're still looking, very ongoing at the moment. as many as a dozen, maybe more, missing right now. they won't give us hard numbers on how many are missing, because they're not sure if people aren't answering their cell phones at work and unaware of what's going on. con ed said they've cut off electric and power to this whole block, as you would expect, as they're trying to figure out what happened. it was a five-alarm fire earlier, and firefighters say they're actively fighting a lot of flames. underneath the rubble, which you can't see, there are still a lot of flames, and firefighters say they have no word on when they'll be able to get control of the whole thing. now, there are a number of people missing. they don't want to say exactly

how many. but the fire department says right now two are dead, 24 are injured, and two of them are serious with life threatening injuries. 15 minor injuries, as well. among the injured, three children and two fbi agents. the fbi says they happened to be driving by at the time of the incident. their car is heavily damaged, but they do not have any life threatening injuries, and they're expected to make a full recovery. this happened around 9:30 this morning. con ed got wind of it about 15 minutes earlier when a resident reported a gas leak, or what smelled like a gas leak in her building. by the time they got here, the buildings had collapsed. now, obama was briefed on it, because it's manhattan, and everybody initially assumes terrorism might be involved, because it is the city. but as of now, no criminality expected and de blasio says they do believe at this moment that it was a gas leak. >> katie, thank you for the update. congressman darrell issa issues a new issa-ish report about former irs officialer lois

learner, accusing her of being partisan and emotional. and rush limbaugh thinks she's an irs babe. [ male announcer ] we all think about life insurance. but when we start worrying about tomorrow, we miss out on the things that matter today. ♪ at axa, we offer advice and help you break down your insurance goals into small, manageable steps. because when you plan for tomorrow, it helps you live for today. can we help you take a small step? for advice, retirement, and life insurance, connect with axa.

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♪ [ male announcer ] bob's heart attack didn't come with a warning. today his doctor has him on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. if you've had a heart attack, be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. in the state of florida last night, republican and former lobbyist david jolly beat democrat alex sink in the state's 13th district special election, dealing a blow to democrats in an election that a lot of people think they should have won. after all, alex sink, a strong, well-financed candidate won the district when she want for governor against rick scott in 2010 and president obama carried it both in 2008 and 2012. last night, sink lost by 3,456 votes. her loss left both sides spinning. quote, special elections are exactly that, special. noted democratic congressional

campaign committee chair steve israel. the gop underperformed tonight in florida 13, a district they've held for decades, tweeted debbie wasserman schultz, and republicans who were casting off jolly as a loser, republicans all of a sudden were hip-hip-hooraying david jolly as the mascot for the party 2014. >> it was most important to the people in florida 13. and that's the economy and jobs. >> jobs and the economy, and also maybe a thing called obamacare. health care was the whipping post in over $4 million worth of outside conservative ad buys in the florida 13 race. and with last night's victory, americans all over the country can expect plenty more anti-aca advertising in the months to come. as chris writes in the "washington post," for a republican party without much to rally around, this is a genuine feel-good moment and one that

should help raise money from large and small donors. as for democrats, yesterday the administration released february's health care enrollment number, which fell 25% short of its target, with the march 31st deadline fast approaching, 4.2 million people have now signed up for insurance on the federal and state exchanges. and there were 943,000 sign-ups in february. but that is still lower than the two previous months. florida 13 may now prestage a democratic disaster in november, but it does mean a barrage of anti-obamacare attack ads will continue, and the question is, what should democrats do about it? joining me is adam smith and "washington post" columnist and senior fellow of government studies at the brookings institute, a.j. dion. >> you're our guy on the ground. you wrote, i believe yesterday, or maybe it was today, sink and jolly both tried to argue repeatedly that the race had more to do with local politics than it did national.

nonsense. if that is the case, what was the effect of that and that rhetoric and that dialogue on the voters in florida's 13th district? >> well, first of all, sink and jolly really didn't control the campaign. there was so much outside spending, $9 million from outside groups. those were the ones overwhelmingly on tv, and their messages were overwhelmingly negative, and on the republican side, it was overwhelmingly she's a cheerleader for obamacare, she's a cheerleader for obama, a liberal. and on the republican side, it was you can't trust her with entitlements, you know, about obamacare, clearly, this was a national election, no doubt. >> let me ask you, though, do you feel that depressed turnout, people were less enthusiastic about the race? if you look at the numbers yesterday, 182,000 turned out for the special election. in 2010, a comparable midterm, 267,000, considerably more people.

did the nationalness of this make floridians less interested? >> i think the negativity may have depressed turnout. for a special election, this was actually a relative good turnout. there was a special election in south florida a while ago that was far less than this. so this had a lot of attention, turnout was about 40%, which for a special election, is not so terrible. >> e.j., what's your read on what happened last night? i know we can all get ready to throw our television -- we all, not us political people -- but actual americans who have something better to do than just talk about the aca all day, are going to throw their television sets out the window a couple months before november, if this is any taste of what's to come. but how did you read alex sink's loss last night? >> well, first of all, thanks for having me on, and i'd love to be in the room when david jolly meets all of the washington operatives who 24 hours a ago were throwing him under the bus. >> exactly. >> in their efforts at spin. i think this is a wake-up call for democrats. i hope they don't believe their

spin, and i don't think they do. first, the turnout was okay for a special election, as adam said. but i think there are real problems with democratic turnout. and that's going to be a problem in the fall, and they've got to start -- democrats have to look at what they are doing to energize their own voters. i think, secondly, that means they need a much more pointed economic message to draw their supporters to the polls. stan greenberg talked about this to my colleague at the "post," greg sargent, and i think that's true. thirdly, i think there are people saying sink may have fought obamacare to a draw, basically by saying, fix it, don't end it. and i think that is a fairly popular position. but i think democrats still need to do a better job of defending obamacare. so i think there are a lot of lessons here for democrats. but i really think they should have won this race.

this is exactly the kind of district they need to win to have any chance at all of making real inroads in the house. and so, i trust that they'll study this result very carefully. >> adam, let me ask you, john nichols in analyzing the race last night talked about alex sink's message, and i'm paraphrasing a little bit, he said she didn't in any sense run a populous campaign, it was a soft appeal for bipartisanship that sounded nice enough, but had the feel of a candidate appealing to a small number of swing voters, rather than expanding the electorate, and it was an insufficient effort. do you agree with that? >> i partially agree with that. no question she's a moderate democrat, a businesswoman, and democrats knew all along this was a special election, an off-year election where republicans were likely to have a far better turnout than democrats, so she felt the need to really focus on those independent voters, roughly one

in five of all of the votes, and peeling off some of the soft republicans. clearly, it didn't work. i will say, you know, below the radar, there was a lot of targeting -- this was an overwhelmingly district, 4% of the district is black. the democrats really threw the kitchen sink and everything else at this race, and it wasn't enough. >> e.j., what do we do about -- i mean, how does one discuss obamacare with any, you know, sort of accuracy, and sort of nonpartisan and convincing fashion? at this point, it is such a loaded topic, the numbers came out yesterday, and even reading those numbers is a -- it's difficult to have an informed opinion that doesn't seem coded by partisan politics. the numbers were lower than expected, but more people are using the federal exchanges than the state exchanges, which is great news given the quote/unquote glitches. and then, there's also the reality that in massachusetts, which is probably the best analog we have, 20% of enrollees

signed up in the final month. so march could be a big time for the aca. are you bullish or are you bearish in terms of this for the midterms? >> i'm hopeful for the long run on the aca. i mean, first of all, democrats really, and funders in particular, really have to look at the commitment all these republican groups from the koch brothers, inspired groups, to the chamber of commerce, how much they're going to throw at these races and at obamacare. and they kind of, sort of level the playing field in florida, but even that wasn't enough. so around the country, they're going to have to take that on. in terms of obamacare, they have to talk a lot more about the benefits of people already have. that's a district with a lot of seniors in it. if you got rid of obamacare, seniors would lose quite a bit of money on the prescription drug benefit, because obamacare fills the doughnut hall. there are a lot of kids thrown off their parents' policies, you know, people, young adults,

basically up to age 26, they just haven't sold all the parts of obamacare that benefit an awful lot of other people. >> you know, you raise a really good point, e.j., because we've been talking about the president's appearance with zach galifianakis and so many more resources getting people to enroll as opposed to telling them about the good stuff they've already gotten. >> right. well, they've got about three weeks to meet this enrollment deadline, so they probably will throw a lot at enrollment and a lot at trying to get young people to sign up. but, you know, the case for obamacare has never been well made from the very beginning, and i think this race says that if a lot of ads, some of them misleading, go on the air attacking obamacare, and there isn't some underlying case out there where people say, yeah, i saw that ad, but here's what i get out of it, i think a lot of these candidates in both moderate districts and more

progressive districts, a lot of the candidate also have trouble. >> you have to fight something with something. >> amen, sister. >> i love when you say amen. adam, e.j., thank you both for your time. >> good to be with you. >> thank you. the expanding search area for malaysia airlines flight 370 might have well be renamed the land of confusion. we'll get the latest next. [ coughs, sneezes ] i have a big meeting when we land, but i am so stuffed up, i can't rest. [ male announcer ] nyquil cold and flu liquid gels don't unstuff your nose. they don't? alka seltzer plus night fights your worst cold symptoms, plus has a decongestant. [ inhales deeply ] oh. what a relief it is. [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ she can print amazing things, right from her computer.

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...of america's number-one puppy food brand... ...with dha and essential nutrients also found in mother's milk. purina puppy chow. all right. good night. relatives of the passengers on malaysia airlines flight 370 learned those were the last words from the cockpit to air traffic controllers before the plane disappeared. what happened after that communication remains a complete mystery. this morning, the malaysian government acknowledged that it does not know which direction

the plane was heading. they say the search zone now encompasses a 35,000-square-mile area, which is roughly the size of the state of indiana. the government has recruited india to join search efforts north of the strait of malacca toward the andaman sea. the malaysian defense record said they were reviewing plane records that indicate the plane could have reversed course, but they could not confirm if the aircraft on that radar was the missing 777. at this morning's briefing, nbc's kier simmons asked the minister about the contradictions. >> you're searching east. you're searching west. you don't seem to know what you see on the radar and five days later. >> i think that's not true. >> i want to ask you, this is utter confusion. >> i don't think so. i think it's far from it. it's only confusion if you want it to seem to be confusion.

>> the u.s. national transportation and safety board, the ntsb, has sent three investigators to help clear up the confusion. they are analyzing whether the military radar picked up the missing plane or another aircraft. coming up, darrell issa knows that any good witch-hunt needs a witch. what the congressman doesn't realize, in the case of this hunt, he's the witch. that's next. first, mandy brewery has this cnbc market wrap. >> hey there, alex. a mixed day for stocks today. you know, as you can see, the dow is down just marginally. the s&p, despite being slightly soggy today, is less than 1% away from its record closing high. so we're still at fairly lofty levels. those are the scoreboards you can see in front of you. that's it from cnbc, we're first in business worldwide. [ male announcer ] this is joe woods' first day of work.

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beware the issa of march, or any other month for that matter, particularly if your name is lois lerner. yes, congressman darrell issa is at it again with his $14 million, 10-month, 255-employee witch hunt, or if you prefer, investigation. yesterday, the oversight committee chair brought down his newest phone hammer on lerner's alleged targeting of conservative groups. it is a 141-page report that concludes, quote, lois lerner believed the political participation of tax exempt organizations harmed democratic candidates. she believed something needed to be done, and at least according to issa and company, she directed action from her unit at the irs. it's a pretty remarkable conclusion, one that was reached by way of supposed smoking gun e-mails from lerner herself, e-mails like the one she sent in

september 2010 when lerner wrote of tax exempt social welfare groups known at 501 c 4s. she said, my guest is those who political activity never pay the tax on the activity, and we surely should be looking at that. wouldn't that be a surprising turn of events? my object is not to look for political activity, more to see whether self-declared c4s are really acting like c4s. so lerner did direct her unit to find out if social welfare groups were really into social welfare. no mention of conservatives, no mention of the tea party, no mention of messing around for democratic benefit. if you needed further evidence that lerner was not looking to target the right, issa also cites lerner's e-mail the next day. quote, we need to be cautious so it isn't per se a political project, more a c4 project that will look at levels of lobbying and political activity along with exempt activity.

on the isle of issa, that per se, is supposed to be evidence of a cover-up. naturally. but that's not all. issa also devoted an entire section of his report to lerner's management style. he cites a former staffer who said lerner wouldn't make an ideal witness, because, quote, lois is unpredictable. she's emotional. conservatives, of course, have already made up their minds. lernerer is the scowling face of irs misdeeds screamed a george will headline, or as rush limbaugh put it, when i look at this lois lerner, irs babe, i see someone mean, vindictive, unhappy, vengeful. the woman just encapsulates all of that just in her facial expression. that's funny, because you know who i think of as encapsulating the face of miserable, mean, vindicti vindictive, and vengeful politics? darrell issa. after the break, congressman keith ellison weighs in on the progressive playbook and president obama's efforts to curb income inequality. that's coming up next.

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to get the real answers you need. start building your confident retirement today. the first day i came into office, i ended the practices that are subject to the investigation by the senate committee, and have been very clear that i believe they were contrary to our values as a country. >> that was president obama just moments ago speaking at the white house. he was addressing the recent controversy between lawmakers and the cia over a senate intelligence report regarding torture. and whether or not it kept the country safer. the president has much on his plate. tomorrow, he will use his executive authority to expand overtime pay for millions of american workers. the new rules, ones that would be enforced by the department of labor, are expected to increase the number of salaried employees who are eligible for overtime, and raise the overtime salary cap from $455 a week to an

unspecified number. the move comes weeks after the president signed another executive order, one that progressives have been calling for for years, and one that raises the minimum wage for government contractors beginning next year. in 2014, those contractors can still be paid the minimum wage of $7.25 an hour. but starting in 2015, that number goes up to $10.10 an hour. this new executive progressivism is happening on the same day that the 70-member congressional progressive caucus, the cpc, is releasing their annual budget, which is called the better-off budget. the caucus is presenting their spending blueprint against a backdrop of stagnating wages, after all, not every worker is a government contractor, and soaring corporate profits. they say it would create 8.8 million jobs by 2017 through a combination of infrastructure spending, state aid, and public works funding. it would also, paging house republicans, reduce the deficit by $4 trillion over 10 years, by

instituting a carbon tax, restoring clinton era tax rates and creating new tax brackets for millionaires and billionaires. so will it pass? no. but should it be discussed? most certainly. joining me now is a democratic congressman from minnesota's 5th discorre district, keith ellison. congressman ellison, it's always great to have you on the show. >> thank you. >> let me start with news of the hour, the president weighing in on his administration, the fact they ended torture, and as co-chair of the congressional progressive caucus, would you like to see more from this white house on the issue of intelligence gathering, oversight and transparency? >> yes, and as a matter of fact, in our budget, in the better off budget, we call for greater transparency and spending by -- in the appropriations for the clandestine agencies. we asked for the top-line budget, not just overall intelligence budget but the top lines on the agencies that are beneath that. we think more transparency, more

disclosure will bring about greater accountability. >> congressman ellison, i talk a lot about the cpc budget, because i've long thought, this isn't about me statements, but the republicans have moved budgetary goalpost so far to the right, why do democrats not go with your budget, and why not in previous years past? if you look at the numbers, president obama's budget in 2014 was a lot closer to paul ryan's budget, 3.5 versus 3.6 trillion, than it was to the progressive caucus' budget. this year, that seems to be changing. a, because paul ryan doesn't look like he'll release a budget, but also because president obama's budget is closer, a gap of $4 billion between yours and his. do you think this is evidence that the goalposts are moving back towards the left side of the field? >> you know, it's nice when elected officials will carry out the will of the electorate. >> yeah. >> and it's americans all over this country are saying, yes, we want to have better pay, we want

to have a public investment that's going to reflect the needs of the country, like our crumbling roads and infrastructure, the need for trans transit, the need for smart grids, we need this stuff. the public knows we need it. it's nice when elected officials, who are supposed to be responsive to the electorate, are willing to do that. i don't know if we're in a progressive moment or not. i think we are. i can tell you this, we are responding to the needs of the people. >> you know, even reading that script, and i'll admit it was a script, i wasn't doing an ad-lib, but the carbon tax, the clinton era tax break, higher tax brackets for millionaires and billionaires. these were once not crazy, wild, leftist ideas. these are fairly moderate ideas about how you have a balanced budget. are we getting -- i mean, when you -- when you mention these things to republicans -- in closed circles and we're not on tv or anything -- but is there any traction? >> no. they're not there.

the republicans -- now, of course, there are a lot of reasonable republicans who would be willing to discuss these things and negotiate. but most republicans, even the moderate ones, live in abject terror of a right wing primary challenge, so they're not free to really stand on their values. and the truth is, you know, as you mentioned, you know whether it's in the gym or the lobby or in the lunch room, there are good guys on that side of the aisle, but you're not seeing much courage, because, you know, the koch brothers are an even bigger threat to moderate republicans than they are democrats. >> yeah, and it's telling that mall ryan, the budget guy, is probably -- they're not even going to release a budget this year because of fear of what it might do to the party's base, and intraparty warfare. if we're talking when liabilities here, congressman ellison, let me talk to you about the latest poll numbers we have out today. the nbc news/"wall street journal" poll that shows the president's approval rating at 41%, disapproval rating at 54%. what is your reaction to that?

how much do you think that complicates the work of democrats and progressive democrats? >> well, i mean, you know, it's not easy. but i think that's why we've got to focus on the issues, right? if we've got to focus on paid sick leave, increasing the minimum wage, if you ask people how they feel about these core issues, they like them. in fact, you know, when governor christie was on the ballot last time, there was something that beat him, and that was the minimum wage. it won by 61% in new jersey while they re-elected a republican governor. so these ideas are very, very popular. let's get out of the personality contests and get into the issue debate, because that's where we really do win. they want to argue about, do you like obama, do you not, do you -- all this kind of stuff. let's talk about where are you on paid sick, where are you on increasing the minimum wage, where you at on making millionaires pay, making big oil pay their fair share? >> indeed. it's not about -- it's always going to be, to some degree,

about personality, but it's really about policy and politics. >> right. >> congressman keith ellison, thank you as always. >> thanks, alex. that's all for now. i'll see you back here tomorrow at 4:00 p.m. "the ed show" starts up now. good evening, americans, and welcome to "the ed show" live from new york. let's get to work. ♪ >> as the first real test for obamacare at the polls appears to spell trouble. >> they were not the results that any of us wanted. >> trouble for democrats. in 2014. >> a big win last night in florida. >> folks, i got very good news tonight. no more commercials. >> words that i have waited months to speak -- >> don't push me, bob. now is not the time. >> some wanted to make this a