day 16 and more evidence of something, potential objects as they're being called. are searchers any closer to actually locating flight 370? the task now, find exactly what is on this image taken from space. but how difficult is this? nbc's tom costello will bring you unique perspective on the scope of the search. did hillary clinton just drop a big hint about her future plans? inside an iranian prison, hear a story of trauma experienced by three americans held in solitary confinement. hey there, everyone. high noon here in the east, 9:00 a.m. out west. welcome to "weekends with alex witt." we have another potential big development in the search for malaysia airlines flight 370. malaysia's transport minister says france has new satellite images showing possible debris in the southern corridor of the search area off australia's west

coast. at the same time, search teams are trying to find a wooden pallet spotted from the air by a civilian aircraft yesterday. it was surrounded by several other objects, including what appeared to be strapping belts of different colors. also new today, tony abbott says he's encouraged by the latest developments. >> it's still too early to be definite, but obviously we have now had a number of very credible leads, and there is increasing hope. no more than hope. no more than hope that we might be on the road to discovering what did happen to this ill-fated aircraft. >> okay, let's go to perth, australia, and nbc's ian williams. with a good evening to you, what are officials saying about today's search efforts? >> well, it's not encouraging, alex. all the planes came back just a

few hours ago and the marine authority that's overseeing this search in australia said they saw nothing of significance out there today. there were eight aircraft in total as well as a number of ships on location. scouring an area of about 30,000 square miles. interesting, they had onboard teams of spotters for all the advanced technology, these aircraft are carrying, they relying today on people looking through the window, eyeballs. because this is perhaps the best way of spotting some of these bigger pieces of potential debris. also today's search hampered by the weather again. cloud and fog first thing. although it did improve later. of course, tony abbott, the australian prime minister sounding reasonably up beat. he also said there was almost a moral imperative behind this search. this is what he had to say. >> we owe it to the almost 240 people onboard the plane.

we owe it to their grieving families. we owe it to the governments of the countries concerned to do everything we can to discover as much as we can about the fate of mh-370. >> reporter: today, as it is now monday already in australia, the search will be enhanced by aircraft from china and japan. so a lot of aircraft going out there today, looking for this debris. they will have at their disposal now three sets of satellite images. the latest, of course, coming from the french. now, this image is not yet officially been released, but ap a short while ago said they had spoken to an unknown malaysian official in kuala lumpur who described the french picture as being fuzzy, but said it appeared to be about the same size as a piece of debris shown in a chinese image.

but it was located about 600 miles north of where the chinese sighting was. and that was the chinese sighting that was just three days earlier. so that seems an awful long way to drift in that short amount of time. but nevertheless, it gives them an extra piece of information to work with when this search resumes in just a few hours time, alex. >> it sure does, but again, there's an expanded area apparently. ian williams, thank you for that. let's go to nbc's tom costello in washington. what's the latest that you're hearing? specifically about these new french satellite images and why haven't they released it, by the way? >> we don't have the dimensions yet. that's what's critical. we do know that the chinese satellite image allegedly showed something about maybe 73 feet. in fact, let me get over there. well, here, let me go out of order. here's why i want to do this. what speed have this plane been coming in at? about, we believe, about 300 miles per hour if it was still

coming in at its full fuel before it exhausted all fuel, and at full speed at about 30,000 feet. so by the time it hit the water, we believe somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 miles per hour. why is that relevant? because not a lot would survive at a crash at 300 miles per hour. okay, so now let's go to these images and let's talk more about this. because if we're trying to figure out what this is right here, this right here is the chinese image and we're told it's about 73 feet, right? that's a big chunk trying to figure out what this is. this is -- over here, this is the australian image from a couple of days ago. this is about 79 feet. is that the same image? we're not sure if the chinese image and the australian image is the same thing. we just don't know. it's similar size. 73 feet. that's about the length of a tennis court. that's a big chunk of something out there. and if you consider that most experts believe that by now most of the plane would have already sunk, it's hard to really

imagine what would be that big. yes, the wingspan is 200 feet, but keep in mind that theoretically, the winds would have already taken on water. here's why this is even more difficult. let's go down here and take a look at the size of the search zone. it's easy to look at this and say oh, that doesn't look so bad, right? four hours flight from perth, australia. what is that? the smallest now reduce size -- when they zeroed in and they've now gotten a better idea of where they're trying to look based on the satellite images, we're down to 20,000 square miles or so. all right, what's the most relevant or easy comparison? look at this over here. this is west virginia. so imagine that you're looking for something in all of west virginia. and that's about 24,000 square miles. close enough. so you're looking for something about the size of a tennis court in all of west virginia and you're doing it by air. you can see why this is becoming so difficult, and keep in mind, this is a rolling ocean, high waves, white caps.

it's a very difficult proposition. alex? >> yeah. and tom, these planes, they take off and they have about ten hours of flying time, right? it's bottom to leave from perth for four hours of flying time. they really only have about two hours before they have to turn around. >> two hours. >> and weather conditions are complicating things as well. >> two hours in that zone. that's all they get. that's why they're now trying to flood the zone with more aircraft coming in from the chinese and the japanese and they're bringing in ships as well. they want an armada searching this area, doing grid-like searches, but again, it's still a massive area. as for that wooden plank, in the case of air france in 2009, one of the first pieces of debris they found was a wooden plank in the general area where the plane went down, and they thought ah-ha, maybe air france was carrying a wooden plank, maybe this is where the debris was. air france was not carrying a wooden plank that day. that just goes to show you how

much trash is floating around on the ocean's surface. >> okay, thank you, so much. i appreciate it. let's bring in john cox. tom and i were just talking about this wooden plank. something that i know is used in ship shipping. it can be used in aviation as well, correct? and how so? >> palletized freight is something that goes on and off of airplanes, but it also goes on trucks and ships. until we have it onboard, and there hopefully is a serial number, or the strapping that was mentioned earlier can be determined to be aviation-style or marine and they can find something that positively identifies this as being with the airplane, we've got to treat it with suspicion. we've got to keep an open mind about it. >> this was malaysia airlines flight 370. clearly a commercial passenger jet. typically, would there be a wooden pallet like this onboard a jet or a flight like that? >> they ship freight all the

time. palletized freight would not be uncommon. it could be in one of the conta containers. it would not be uncommon at all to have a wooden pallet with freight on top of it in an airliner. >> okay. we talk about this object, the satellite images, one being 73 feet, one being 79 feet in length. can you give an educated guess as to what that might be? considering the composite materials that are used for the different parts of the actual plane itself? much of which would have already sunk. >> well, i think most importantly, when you're talking about large pieces of debris, you have to realize that it can pretty well only come from the wings or the fuselage, because that's the only thing on the airplane that is large enough to be of those dimensions. fuselage, when they hit the water, typically don't float for a very long period of time. wings depending on what damage they've sustained at impact, they may or they may not. i'm skeptical about these large pieces. the other thing is we haven't really determined is what's the margin of error on the size of

these reported large pieces of debris. they're from different satellites. they've been evaluated by different specialists. there's certainly a margin of error on size, and that hasn't -- we haven't really evaluated that. so there's a lot more questions than answers here. >> okay. what about the signal from the plane's black boxes? that broadcasts about two miles out, i'm told. we have these teams searching parts of the indian ocean two to three miles deep, so is it possible to even hear these black box pings if they're at the bottom of the ocean? >> oh, i think it's possible, but the thing they're going to have to be is in the near proximity. and that's going to be the challenge. we have very, very sophisticated listening devices. and those are going -- or being brought in to the search. those assets are being applied by a variety of countries. the clicking, it's actually a clicking sound. they call it pinging. >> i'm told it sounds more like a snap. >> it is. that's correct. >> it's a snap. it doesn't really have a

musicality or anything like that. >> it's just a series of these clicks. and that makes it a very unique sound, which if you see that and it can be very quickly analyzed by sophisticated software, they know what they're looking for. if they hear it, then they can move towards it. but as you mentioned, the range here is limited. and typically what their purpose is once you've found the main body of the wreckage, these help you locate the recorders so that you can recover them. >> okay. john cox, many thanks for your insights. we appreciate them. another desperate search. homes demolished and people buried alive. witnesses describe what they saw when the unthinkable happened in one west coast neighborhood. also, did hillary show her cards? comments last night that are fueling speculation. y lip through the doggy door or it's pittsville, brah. it's never too late to learn a foreign language! go and smell the roses!

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now a developing story out of washington state. rescuers are hoping to hear more voices calling for help after a deadly landslide yesterday. at least three people were killed but several more were pulled from that site and rushed to the hospital, including a baby boy, who's in critical condition. first responders believe others are still trapped, but in a press conference moepts ago, responders said the mud flow is like quicksand and the search effort is extremely risky. >> reporter: it came without warning. a wave of crashing mud, trees and rocks 20 feet high. the debris field the size of three football fields. at least three were killed. overnight, first responders could hear cries for help. >> we have people that are yelling for our help and we are going to make -- we're going to take extreme risk to try to get them out of there. >> reporter: the wall of mud crushed half a dozen homes. six people are listed in

critical or serious condition. there was no time to run. >> i just saw the darkness. like somebody wants to grab you. and everything was gone. like three seconds. >> reporter: the mud slide washed over state route 530. rescue crews are deployed to find the missing. >> we're hearing cries, possibly a child from this side. >> reporter: a 6-month-old baby was among those pulled from the mud. it's unclear just how many are still missing. this morning, mud is no longer sliding, but the water is rising. >> it's dammed up so bad, there's no water coming out of the river. >> reporter: the river is jammed with debris. if the mud gives way, the flooding downstream could be catastrophic. >> it is going to break loose and the question is how and where. so for goodness sakes, think about your families, your communities, your neighbors. >> reporter: one disaster now triggering two emergencies.

those who survive the mud are now bracing for a flood. to politics now, and a grim prediction from the chair of the house intelligence committee, as any signs of the missing malaysian air jetliner point to the indian ocean. satellite imaphotos picked up images. >> what they'll continue to do is try to identify every background on every passenger to make sure they're not missing something. and then they won't be really able to put this whole case together until they find the aircraft, and i do believe based on everything that i've seen so far, it is likely and probable that it crashed into the indian ocean. >> the congressman added, though, it's still too soon to take any possible endings off the table. joining me now is democratic congresswoman from california loretta sanchez, a member of the homeland security and armed services committee. welcome back to the broadcast. good to see you. >> good morning, alex.

it's great to be back. >> let's talk about what's going on here. 16 days since flight 370 went mi missing. from all you know, is there any reason to believe it may have been an act of terror? >> well, certainly, we have to look at the facts, and the facts tell us most likely, very high probability that there was something going on in the cockpit, whether it was the pilot, the co-pilot, or a passenger, or crew member, we don't know. that it was diverted. we don't know where they were headed. but likely, the likely scenario is that this plane is at the bottom of the ocean now. >> are international airlines as safe as they should be? >> well, you know, i fly quite a bit. domestically every week from california to washington, d.c. and to other cities here and i will tell you that we take very high precautions with respect to our airliners and our companies here in the united states. i also fly internationally, and

sometimes i am very surprised at some of the lax sort of situations that i see personally. people not paying attention when things are going through machines. some countries that really don't even look at my passport. don't even stamp it. just signal me through. so i'm always concerned of that. and i always come back sitting on the homeland security committee to discuss with our officials where i have seen some of those lax practices. >> okay. we're going to switch gears here and talk about this pretty shocking news that "the washington post" reported last week, which they found that an nsa program -- it's called mystic, records every single phone call made in an unnamed country, including calls american citizens made from the tous that country. these calls are saved for 30 days. this is a new level, it would seem, do you agree with surveillance of that proportion? >> first, let me just say that it's just amazing, this technology to be able to pick up everything that somebody says in

a country. now, you know, we're not at liberty to say which country or which countries that happens in. how big those are. how much the phone connections are there. but if you think about it, the capability is an amazing thing. and so first of all, we have to decide is that correct, are we using it in countries just where we believe there's a possibility of real terrorism against our citizens, and against our nation. but more importantly, when we look at the capability, what if that type of capability were turned on to our own citizens? that's where i think it becomes a very scary proposition, and that's why i've been one of those people who has said, you know, we have to take a look at what we are actually doing, in particular within the united states, and i've always been one to push back on that. it's amazing that when i was growing up, you know, the capability of the nuclear bomb and the fact that as a child, we were taught to go under our desks and brace for something

like that. today's children are being told, put a tape over the camera that you've got on your computer, on your own computer. so the capability is awesome. but how you use it, that's always the issue. >> and to that end, that which we are talking about, this country where every phone call is monitored, is that something that is critical to our national security? >> well, i believe that that's a discussion, that the most capable people -- to have that would be those who have developed it and are using it. and those in the congress who are here to protect first and foremost the rights of our own citizens. i represent 800,000 people. every congressperson more or less does that. so we are the representatives. we are the ones who decide, how do we use a technology like that and why would we even use it on our own people? i mean, obviously the fourth amendment guarantees us that we should be taking a look at this.

>> all right. let's take a look here now at ukraine. in fact, today's -- from nato, the top military commander there, he gave quite a warning at an event in germany. here's what the general said. the quote reads, "the russian force that is at the ukrainian border now to the east is very, very sizable and very, very ready. there is absolutely sufficient russian force postured on the eastern border of ukraine to run to western ukraine if the decision was made to do that, and that is very worrisome. what should the u.s. do if that happens? >> well, first, one has to take a look and see -- you know, try to get in the mind of what is going on with putin. clearly, i believe that he is thinking that he would like to make russia a superpower again, that he would like to get some of the former soviet union satellite countries back into his power play. we certainly have to take a look at what he did in georgia a few

years back, and so i would say that certainly, it's my opinion, my personal opinion that he's amassing for a particular reason. now, the united states is halfway around the world from what is going on. the true course is what will the europeans do? will they come together? will they unite? will they help us in the diplomatic effort, the economic effort to really sanction, to send the message to putin that this is unacceptable and that he better step back. certainly, putin in today's world has made the world a less safe place for everybody. he's upped the stakes in this. what we need to do is to say how do we diplomatically and economically move him off of this very dangerous perch that he finds himself on. and placed himself on. >> all right. democratic congresswoman from

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oh, what a relief it is! in today's number one, reflects the nation's slowly moving jobs number. texas leads all of job growth for january with a 4.5% gain over a year ago. san jose, california, just a tenth of a percent behind followed by nashville with a 3.7% gain. $760 million in unclaimed tax refunds from 2010 will expire on april 15th. that's money due to people who failed to file a return. if you live in connecticut, you're likely to get one of the largest fax refunds in the nation this year. in 2011, the average fax refund in the nutmeg state was a nation leading $3,217. about 100 more than texas. speaking of returns -- >> it's not easy being mean. >> "the muppets most wanted,"

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guaranteed. weeds killed. lawn restored. justice served. weed b gon max with the one-touch wand. get order. get ortho®. welcome back to "weekends with alex witt." now for headlines at the half. two people are dead after rallies in venezuela turn violent. at least 30 have been killed in five weeks of clashes between security forces and protesters. demonstrators say the president's regime is to blame for inflation and food short angages. same-sex marriages in michigan are once again on hold after hundreds of couples rushed to tie the knot. some 300 marriage licenses were handed out after a federal judge struck down the state's voter approved ban on same-sex marriage. it only lasted a few hours, though. late saturday a court of appeals reinstated the ban until at least wednesday. michelle obama and her daughters took a walk on the great wall of china during their overseas visit today.

earlier, mrs. obama also hosted an education round table with professors at the u.s. embassy in beijing. a potentially pivotal new lead today in the search for that missing malaysia airlines passenger jet. france says it has new satellite images of objects in the indian ocean. those are located in the southern corridor, the current search area off australia's west coast. the new satellite images have not yet been released. meantime, one malaysian official tells the associated press the french images were captured friday, about 575 miles north from where chinese and australian objects were spotted by satellite. it is an incredibly tall task facing the search teams who fly four hours from land just to reach the search zone. bill neely got a firsthand look at what they're up against. a fourth day of searching has ended here at the main australian base. a fleet of aircraft from the u.s., australia, and new zealand out today. four civilian aircraft. four military. their focus, yes, the big debris from those satellite images, but

also something very small, a wooden cargo pallet. nbc news was onboard one of the search planes. the search crews are multi-national. their work relentless. teams from five countries now scouring the indian ocean. a new zealand crew is asked to look for a single wooden pallet, spotted by a civilian plane earlier. their method, look out the window. visibility is good, but finding a pallet in an ocean is tough. >> 200 miles an hour. the world is whistling past you. and you're looking for an object amongst the white caps of the waves. >> reporter: they open a door to throw out buoys to track the current and to look for straps and belts of various colors spotted by another crew. >> obviously, it's disappointing that we didn't find anything. >> reporter: hope, not expectation for this crew. just two hours at the search zone. a ship scouring below them.

then back. another mission done. no debris seen. so the crews here are looking for large debris from three satellite images, but also those small objects. the problem with a wooden cargo pallet or with multi-colored strapping or belts is that they could just as easily have come from a passing cargo ship as from a crashing plane. but morale among the crews is high. they are optimistic. but this is not an easy job. alex? >> all right, nbc's bill neely. thanks, bill. the weather conditions in the indian ocean can also be notoriously difficult. now a nearby cyclone is threatening to seriously hamper the search effort. nbc washington meteorologist veronica johnson is joining me now with more on that story. >> the indian ocean, it's an area where storms can form very quickly and intensify very quickly. and that's exactly what we're seeing with this cyclone. it is now a severe tropical cyclone with its winds at 125 miles per hour. and look at this thing. how big it is.

if you look closely, you can even see that there's an eye in it. the winds around that storm are clock wise, but you've got other erratic winds that are just to the west of this system, too. so as this system makes its trek to the south and southwest, that's what it's forecasted to do right now. it is going to be really churning things up. so that's the trek. look at the size of the storm. now, look at the investigation area. it's about the same size. so right now, tropical cyclone jillian is forecasted to move northwest of the investigation site. and dissipate. but what typically happens, alex, is that we see these storms as they dissipate the outer most bands of rain start to break off. and that's what could happen on tuesday and wednesday time period. when that happens, as it dissipates, they could be looking at winds between 39 and maybe 73 miles per hour. one thing is for sure, they've got some huge waves that they will be dealing with. i think on tuesday and wednesday. right now those wave heights are at about ten feet.

the other thing that they're going to see is the possibility of some heavy rain coming in to the area. if there are any of those bands that start to break off. and i took a look at the extended forecast for next saturday. potential for 15 and possibly 16-foot waves as there could be another cyclone forming in the central portion of the indian ocean. >> oh, my goodness. that hampers search efforts. also potentially could break up any debris that might be there. things will sink. smaller pieces harder to spot. good grief. okay. thank you very much, i appreciate that. so let's bring in robert goyer to talk about the disappearance of the plane. you work with pilots and aviation experts. so what are you hearing from them about what might have happened to flight 370? >> it's really come down to two different theories about it. number one is that, which i think is the best theory that we have to go on right now, is that someone in the cockpit initiated

this divergence from the original flight plan up to beijing and turned the airplane and got headed somewhere else and people are hoping that it is in the south indian ocean or we're looking in the right place. the other theory is that there was some kind of mechanical emergency. a fire, small explosion contained within that forward avionics bay of the 777. if that were the case, the theory is it might have taken out some of the equipment and disabled the airplane to the point where the pilots were unable to communicate the emergency and had to take some kind of heroic actions to try to save the flight. those are two very different scenarios, but those are the two favorites right now. >> what about what we're learning about this morning, this new french satellite image. this chinese satellite having picked up an image of possible debris as well what. are your observations about the progress of this search? >> well, i tell you, i sure hope that it is part of the debris from the crash of the plane.

the presumed crash of the plane. because if it isn't, we're really in a race against time right now. the pingers on the black boxes last for about 30 days, and we've got about two weeks left of that under the best of circumstances. t if we don't have those pingers, it's going to make the search exponentially more difficult for investigators, for searchers there. >> we have certainly seen criticism of the malaysian government's handling of the investigation and the press conferences. the families have certainly been outraged. do you have criticisms and have you heard any from the aviation community? >> well, i hate to criticize their efforts because they are dealing with something they've never had to deal with before on a world stage that's showing -- that's casting more light on this event than we've maybe ever seen after an aircraft disappearance or accident. so there have definitely been some missteps on the malaysian government's part.

part of that is the ntsb, the national transportation and safety board, which is the gold standard in investigative bodies, we're used to the way that they approach these things and the way they do it is with a great deal of procedural safeguards, with a lot of transparency, and with total professionalism from the beginning to end as well as working very closely and professionally with the investigative bodies of other countries, so it has been frustrating for everybody. >> even if we find this plane in the next week or so, how does this fit into aviation history? >> it's really a milestone in aviation history because we've never had a situation like this where we had a large airliner go missing for this period of time, and with very little evidence of what might have hapds. i think we're going to look back at this in a few years, and depending on what happens, but regardless of what happens if it remains a mystery of that point, or if we discover it was a fire or some sort of commandeering of

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new today, a glimpse at what life is like inside iranian prisons. in 2009, shane bower, josh fatale and sarah shore were arrested and kept captive after

going on a hike in northern iraq. they were detained and accused of espionage. they were eventually released, sarah first in 2010 and josh and shane in 2011. the three have written a new book about their experience called "a sliver of light: three americans imprisoned in iran." joining me now, shane, josh, and sarah. i welcome all three of you. i'll begin with you, shane. describe the conditions inside that prison. what was that like? do you think you might have been treated differently because you were american? >> thanks for having us. the prison we were in, we were in iran's central prison and we were held in a political ward where there were pro-democracy activists and other political prisoners held in isolation, many of them in solitary confinement. we sometimes heard people being beaten. people told us they were electrocuted or beaten on the bottom of their feet. but we quickly realized that we -- our interrogators told us

that they knew we weren't spies after two months of interrogation and that we were, you know, stuck in the middle of negotiations between the two countries and that the situation had become political. so we knew that we were valuable to the iranians as hostages, and for that reason, we weren't physically abused in the same way. >> i know here in this country, there are new efforts, especially in california and new york to try to curb the use of solitary confinement. i know you all are critics of it because you all experienced it. sarah, you were held in solitary confinement the entire time. what was your breaking point? >> yeah, that's correct. i was held in solitary for over 410 days, the whole time that i was imprisoned in iran. and i reached the edge of sanity many, many times. solitary confinement reduces you to an almost animal-like state. i spent my time pacing my cell compulsively, crouched down by the small food slot in my door, just listening for sounds to orient myself. there were times when i

completely lost awareness of myself. i heard screaming, i didn't even know that i was screaming and had actually beat at the walls of my own cell. >> josh, how about you? what did you do to survive mentally? >> it wasn't so much of a choice of getting through solitary confinement. to me, it was a matter of just getting through day by day, and even day by day was a lot. it was hour by hour, minute by minute. at one point, i remember a low point, just thinking about how i could escape, i was looking at the laundry detergent in the bathroom thinking that if i swallowed that, that would be my only means. it really is -- their putting me in there and i knew my interrogators were my enemies, but in solitary confinement, my mind became my own enemy. it was all i had and it felt like it hounded me at every step. >> sarah, were you afraid that you would never leave prison? >> there were definitely moments that i was.

but we also knew that the world wouldn't forget about us. we knew that our families and friends and communities wouldn't let us be forgotten. news of the incredible campaign that really became an international campaign, it trickled into the prison through letters, other prisoners. we were really fortunate that the other political prisoners there, instead of being hostile towards us, which i initially assumed they would be, they were very kind. they reached out to us, passed us notes. some of the women would push past the guards and throw their arms around me and tell me they loved me. >> shane, i know there's a story about how you got a guard to stop beating on a prisoner. you mentioned one word, guantanamo, right? >> right. there was a prisoner who was in really bad shape. every time the guards would come to his cell, he would just scream in terror. one time, a bunch of guards went to his cell. we heard them beating him, and josh and i start pounding on the door and the guards kind of -- a guard came and said what are you doing? shut up. and we said, what is this,

guantanamo? we knew that was very insulting to them. he was taken aback and they stopped actually beating this prisoner. >> josh, how about life now? how different is it for you after your imprisonment? what was the lasting effect that it's had on you? >> well, one of the cruel gifts in solitary confinement is i realize that -- how central relationships were in my life, because i, you know, had no relationships at that point. and so, you know, when i got out -- so that became central to how i would move through life afterwards. sort of valuing those important things. when i got out of prison, i ran out of prison into my family's arms and i was immediately swimming in the ocean and slept in sheets for the first time in my life. but for a while, my mind was still in prison and it's taken a long time to slowly feel more

free and out of prison. >> yeah. sarah, i know prior to this experience, you visited yemen, lebanon, iraq, you lived in syria. what made you decide to go hiking so close to the iranian border? >> well, what a lot of people don't know is that northern iraqi kurdistan is almost its own country within iraq. it has its own borders, its own language, its own history. in fact, no american has been kidnapped or kill there had in recent decades. it's not a war zone. and "the new york times" named it one of the top tourist destinations in 2011. so our guards were down. we were hiking by a tourist site. if anything, we hiked a little too far. >> well, it is a book that's going to take us very far through what has happened for all of you. also, belated congratulations to you, sarah and shane for being married. that, i guess, is one good thing that came of this. >> thank you. >> do take care. >> what hillary clinton said last night about her future in

2016. and at the top of the hour, we invite all of you to watch "taking the hill" with patrick murphy. he will talk about the lessons of the iraq war with congresswoman tulsi. so ally bank really has no hidden fees on savings accounts? that's right, no hidden fees. it's just that i'm worried about, you know, "hidden things." ok, why's that? well uhhh... surprise!!! um... well, it's true. at ally there are no hidden fees.

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to politics, and hillary clinton now, who just gave as much of a signal as ever that a 2016 run could be in her sights. bill clinton, hillary, and chelsea clinton sat down with comic jimmy kimmel. he moderated an initiative event last night and here's what the former secretary of state said when asked about a 2016 run. >> look, i am -- [ laughter ] i am very much concerned about the direction of our country. i'm obviously thinking about all kinds of decisions. >> well, joining me now, lauren fox, and msnbc.com senior editor beth fuiy. i'll start with you, lauren. hillary clinton answered that

2016 question not exactly direct, but she made it clear she's considering a run. is there anything at this point that could hold her back? >> i think there certainly is a chance that hillary clinton is going to be running in 2016. one of the things that we've seen moving forward is that everyone is staying on the sidelines in terms of donors, in terms of activists, campaign recruits. she is certainly the one who's going to get to make the decision first. after that, everyone else is going to have to fall in line because people know that she is leading the team right now when it comes to democrats. every poll looks like she is the top democratic contender. so i think that we're going to have to wait on hillary clinton to make up her mind. but i think she looks like she's certainly looking very seriously at this race. >> in fact, beth, there's a new gallup poll in which they found that more americans think hillary clinton's gender is her top selling point. when picked the best positive of a possible clinton presidency, 18% said having the first woman president. 9% saying her foreign policy

experience. 5% just think she's the best choice out there. being a woman candidate comes with its own land mines, but do you think that poll has it right, that her gender is an asset? >> i absolutely do. i covered the hillary clinton campaign in 2008 for the ap, so i spent a year on a plane with at that point the new york senator. she was so reluctant to talk about that aspect of her candidacy. she was very, very broadly coached by her aides not to discuss it, to really project this image of strength and decisiveness and to play down the gender piece. when she finally gave up and did her goodbye speech in june and she talked about breaking through the 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling, and that's when everybody just jumped up and applauded and there were tears. she was finally talking about it. so i think that was a lesson from that campaign. she knows that this time around, she is every bit as ground breaking a candidate as barack obama was when he was running as the first african-american candidate. and that she really ought to embrace that. >> you talk about those that are staying on the sidelines,

lauren. how about joe biden? >> he certainly is a candidate who would like to run. and has made it clear that he's seriously considering a run. but i think that there's an interesting feeling here between the two candidates. these are both people who have worked with president barack obama. these are both folks who have a lot of executive experience. but i think that joe biden is still kind of on the fence because of hillary clinton waiting it out. >> and what about the bill clinton factor, beth? how much do you expect we would see bill clinton on the campaign trail were she to go for it? >> we'd see quite a bit of bill clinton. he's the most popular politician in america right now. there's no reason why she should sideline him. it's not like she has to prove that she's her own person or her own leader. she's been a senator. she's been secretary of state. she can stand on her own two feet. there's no sense that bill clinton would micromanage her presidency in any way. and he's beloved. he's beloved among democrats. so he's got to be a piece of this. >> okay. beth and lauren, that's a wrap

this time. thanks, ladies. >> thank you. >> that's going to do it for me as well this hour. i'm alex witt. up next, "taking the hill" with patrick murphy. he's in place in studio. get ready for it coming your way in about three minutes. in the nation, we reward safe driving. add vanishing deductible from nationwide insurance and get $100 off for every year of safe driving. we put members first. join the nation. ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ ♪ ♪

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this is the 2014 jeep grand cherokee. it is the best of what we're made of. well-qualified lessees can lease the 2014 grand cherokee laredo 4x4 for 359 a month. hi, i'm patrick murphy, and welcome to "taking the hill." 11 years ago today, u.s. forces battled through the southern iraqi desert under a push toward baghdad. 17 days later, the capital fell. while the invasion was swift, the war was long. over the next nine years, nearly 4,500 americans and more than 100,000 iraqis were killed. hundreds of thousands of our troops were wounded. both physically and mentally. and then there