minefield of debris. a race to find the missing before it's too late. and putin pushed aside, the g-8 becomes the g-7. the whole world watching. good morning, i'm chris jansing. a make or break moment in health care, women's rights, and religious liberty. starting moments from now, a longer than usual 90 minutes behind supreme court, hearing arguments in a case that's polarizing and mobilizing the right and the left. the case is sebelius versus hobby lobby. the issue, whether a conservative christian family who own a chain of craft stores should have to pay for insurance that covers certain kinds of birth control. that birth control is mandated under obamacare, but they say it violates their religious beliefs. right now, check out the protesters making their voices heard in spite of the weather.

the rest of the day, jam packed with rallies and news conferences with democrats and republicans trying to seize on what has become a divisive political issue. back in the courtroom, a rematch, the same two lawyers who argued the 2012 case that upheld obamacare are making these arguments. i want to bring in michael dorf, who clerked for justice kennedy. good morning, professor, thanks for joining us. >> thanks for having me. >> lay out the case for us. we know the central case is do for profit organizations have religious rights. let's start with the argument made by hobby lobby. they say because of the nature of our company we're entitled to the religious freedom exemption. >> yes, so in 1993 congress enacted a law called the religious freedom restoration act, which requires that whenever a law burdens someone's religion substantially, that someone, described as a person in the statute, is entitled to an exception from the law, unless the government can show

that the law is necessary to serve a compelling government interest, which is a pretty high threshold. and hobby lobby says that the word "person" in the religious freedom restoration act includes a corporation, at least in circumstances like these where the corporation is really the tool for a family. this is a family-owned corporation. on the other side, the obama administration argues that the word "person" in r.i.f.r.a. here doesn't naturally encompass a corporation. if you use the corporate form, then you are subject to the same rules as other corporations. so in that sense, it poses a conflict between religious freedom as embodied in this statute and the government's ability to mandate laws that cover everybody, in this case, to provide for insurance that covers contraception. >> let's talk about the possibilities here in rulings,

because you tend to think of these as an either/or, but could there be something there that says, well, if you're a big corporation, this absolutely does apply, but if you're a family business, it's something different altogether. >> that's a possibility, but it's tricky. in general under corporate law, the law regards a corporation as different from the shareholders of that corporation, even if those shareholders are family members, rather than the general public as with a publicly traded corporation. the corporate scholars and lawyers refer to this as whether you could pierce the corporate veil, and ordinarily it's people arguing against the corporation who want to get money from the shareholders that try to pierce the corporate veil. here, interestingly enough, it's the owners of the corporation that want to say the veil gets pierced. so that's one way the supreme court could rule partly for the plaintiffs, but not open up a gigantic flood of claims by

every manner of corporation. another somewhat narrow ruling you could see is the court might say that, yes, a corporation that is held by family members does have religious rights, or rather the family members have religious rights through the corporation, but here the government is serving a compelling interest, namely the provision of vital health services to the employees. so that's another possibility that would recognize some rights for religious freedom through the corporate form, but not ones that override those of third parties. >> so there are the legal arguments, michael dorf, thank you so much for being with us. i want to bring in senator barbara boxer of california. good to have you back on the program. >> thanks, chris. >> you and 18 of your colleagues felt strongly to file a brief on this. the other side, of course, would argue it's not about access, it's about religious freedom,

and we should say, just to make it clear for everyone, hobby lobby does cover, for example, birth control pills, but they don't want to cover certain kinds that they say stop after contraception, things like plan b. or iuds. anyway, i want to let you make your argument here. >> well, that's a distinction without a difference. hobby lobby's decided what kind of birth control pills women should use, when 99% of women have used birth control at some point in their lifetime, including 98% of catholic women. so it seems to me it is an important point, who decides? and i would certainly, with great respect to the hobby lobby corporation and all their family, say, look, if you don't want this for your family, it's totally fine, and i would defend your right never to have to use birth control, but why would you put that on every other woman? they have 13,000 employees, so it is about religious freedom,

you know, for the people who work there. and here's the other point. i have never heard hobby lobby or any other corporation, i could be wrong, or any other boss complain that viagra is covered in many insurance plans, practically all of them, or other kinds of things for men, which i won't go into. >> well, they would argue that, that doesn't have anything to do with, this is a life issue for them. >> excuse me, i have never heard them put any type of moral objection, remember, this is a moral objection, to men getting viagra, but they have a moral objection to women getting certain types of birth control. so i view this as very much an antiwoman position to take. you could differ, and i would respect that, but i've never heard them complain about that. and where do you stop, what's their next moral objection, do they object to vaccinations? where do you take it from here? and it's important to note women

take birth control, more than half of them, as a medication for other conditions, so it is an attack on women. i think it's an attack on the religious freedom of the women who work there. remember, no one is forced to take birth control. it's an individual right, and this is america and this is the 21st century, and this is shocking. the last point i'd say is, you know, you say the life issue, and i would pick up on that. there has been a well documented study by a university that gave women free birth control for several years. abortions went down by 50%, chris. so if you are for life and want to attack this issue for abortion, this is a place we could work together and reduce the number of abortions. >> i want to make it clear, that's not my argument, the argument they are making is a life argument. let me talk to you about your brief a little bit. >> i think that's a good one for my side, because again, you would reduce the number of

abortions if women had access to birth control. >> let me talk about the brief. we mention there are 84 amicus briefs filed, among the largest ever, this effort, and by a 3-1 margin they favored hobby lobby, not just republicans, we should say, but i want to read the statement john boehner released. >> how many republicans -- >> by far, mostly republicans, there were a few democrats. >> yeah, okay. i just wanted to make it clear. >> there are also more liberal columni columnists, e.j. dionne for one, that's made the case for religious freedom. >> that's their right. >> let me quote speaker boehner. "no citizen should be compelled to violate their convictions, let alone be punished for refusing to do so, paying fines that could cripple their businesses and dropping employee insurance altogether imperils the jobs, livelihood, and health

care. the government has placed a terrible burden on charities, universities, hospitals, and family-owned businesses, one our founders promised they and we would never have to bear." >> that's completely wrong, because there's a religious exemption in the law, in obamaca obamacare, in the affordable care act. there is is a straight forward religious exemption. if you're a church, you don't have to offer birth control. if you're affiliated, you don't have to pay for it, it can be done by a third party. he's missing the whole point. he's missing the point that all the women and the men who work in corporate america have a right to their religious freedom, and for all the arguments that i've heard, the fact that people would be so passionate about denying women birth control in the 21st century is shocking. wouldn't you feel the same way if the next thing they say, we don't believe in the drugs people take for aids, let's not do that and let's not do vaccines. this is a slippery slope, and it

is about religious freedom of all of our people, and i believe that each person's rights should be respected here. >> we're almost out of time. can i ask you more about that point -- >> if you work for a boss that doesn't respect your religious freedom, that is really unfair. >> i want you to respond quickly, because i think you made an important point and i want to get your further comment on the slippery slope argument. and are you concerned that if the supreme court would side with hobby lobby that it is the start of something bigger that could be an attack on obamacare? >> well, it's not just an attack on obamacare, it's an attack on the government of by and for the people if we pass a law, people can pick and choose what laws they want to follow because of their own moral conviction. it may not have anything to do with health care. it could have to do with anything else with discrimination. they could say, well, we saw that in arizona. it's against my moral conviction to serve gays at a restaurant.

so, yes, of course, i'm concerned. but let's get back to basics here. it's the 21st century. women should have a right to get this access to birth control. more than half of them take it for medical reasons. it's an attack on women to deny that to them. that's the basic point. i hope that we've made. >> senator barbara boxer, always good to have you on the program, thank you. let me bring in amanda terkel, sara kliff. good to see both of you. amanda, let me start with you and pick up on what barbara boxer had to say, which is an argument, a political one, in addition to a legal one that we have been hearing for a long time about this being an attack on women. and how will this play, do you think, into the overall political discussion as opposed to the legal one? >> well, i think that, i mean, the supreme court under chief justice john roberts has been incredibly friendly to businesses, pretty much more

friendly to businesses since any court since world war ii and this has really energized a lot of democrats and progressives who find it important that in 2016 that the presidency stay in democratic hands, that there's a senate there and more members in the house to sort of ward and pass legislation in case that there is this supreme court there that is very conservative. so i think that it could really energize democrats if the roberts' court finds in favor of hobby lobby, because as the senator was saying, this could be a slippery slope to more attacks on lgbt rights, more attacks on women's rights, and i think that possibility and the possibility there could be more of this corporate personhood where corporations have all these religious rights under the first amendment really scares a lot of progressives. >> is this something energizing progressives and to amanda's point, the concern is, if you're going to talk about the slippery slope, the next thing becomes if you're gay and going to have a

wedding, then a florist or caterer can say, no, because my religious beliefs allow me not to serve you. >> i think that's really has energized women's groups and one of the things that's really been striking throughout this whole debate is the obama administration has really defended this birth control mandate under intense criticism and stuck with the idea all forms of contraceptives should be available to women without any charge and that's landed them and their signature domestic policy achievement back in the supreme court for a second time in a case i don't know they expected to get this much traction behind it. so i think you really do see an outpouring of interest from women's rights groups, you see it at the supreme court this morning, you see it in the briefs they've filed and comments they've submitted. i think this really is a moment that's rallying folks and it makes sense. while abortion is very controversial, birth control tends to inject pretty

widespread support. most people do support access to birth control on both sides of the political spectrum, so it makes sense this is something you're really seeing a lot of momentum building around and people really caring about. >> amanda terkel, sara kliff, thanks for both of you for coming on. once again, a race against the clock with extreme weather delaying the search for malaysian airlines flight 370 for a second day. authorities called off today's search in the indian ocean because of gail force winds and ocean swells made the search too treacherous for aircraft or ships. >> we are concerned about the weather also over the next couple of days, so it may be some time before we can get aircraft back into the search. >> dozens of frustrated family members marched on the malaysian embassy in beijing today, clashing with police and demanding to meet with the ambassador. they are not satisfied with yesterday's announcement, that's

based on new satellite analysis that the flight crashed into the indian ocean. >> we just want the truth. and if you make a conclusion, with no exact evidence, just from analysis from the satellite data, why you make the conclusion, and why you make the conclusion that no one is alive. i don't believe that. if you make such a conclusion, you must have some evidence. we want to know why. >> let's bring in msnbc news aviation analyst john cox. good to see you, captain. let me start you with this debate, malaysian authorities, obviously, believe their data is conclusive, but china and family members are demanding they turn over the evidence, they are skeptical. are you convinced by what you know? >> good morning, chris. yes, i'm quite convinced, i'm quite satisfied with the quality of the analysis done by inmarsat.

if you look and listen carefully, the people who have reviewed this analysis includes some of the best in the world. the air accident investigation branch in the uk reviewed it. i understand nasa and some other space agencies have reviewed it for the quality of analysis and they have come back unanimously the data is valid, the analysis is valid, and also they have updated in the last about 12 hours some information that i've read that gives a little bit closer timing, that the last time that the satellite was pinged by the airplane and the next time that it tried to ping it and didn't get a result, they've got the timing down pretty close. there is no place in the ocean for that airplane to go, except into the water, so, yes, i'm very convinced that the quality analysis is correct and that we have the airplane in the water. >> so you think that perhaps a lot of this is being driven, obviously, you understand the

families, but maybe by the chinese government, as well, by emotion. there are a lot of people who not only questioned the way the investigation was handled by malaysian authorities early on, but right up until yesterday when some of the families said they were notified that the plane was lost by text message. >> well, i think there's two different parts here. the issues with the family, and i'm very sensitive and respectful of the families and what they are going through, but from an accident investigation standpoint when you look at it, we're looking at data, we're looking at analysis of data, because that's all we have. when the debris field is found, and i'm confident that it will be, we will be able to hand them debris and say this was from malaysia flight 370 and that will maybe provide closure for some of them that are going to hold out till the end. but from an investigative standpoint, all the data right now, very high quality analysis

says that we need to be searching in that area of the indian ocean, the australians, the u.s., the chinese, everyone's agreed that needs to be the search area. what's interesting with the inmarsat data also is the northern route doesn't fit. the southern route fits perfectly, so when you put those together, it adds even more weight to the credibility of the analysis. i recognize people want hard debris, right now it just doesn't exist. >> msnbc aviation analyst john cox, thank you so much. >> my pleasure. coming up, a new search day begins in washington state. could some of the missing have survived the mudslide? but first we'll go to the netherlands, where seven of the g8 voted to kick out russia, and where the president is addressing major progress in nuclear disarmament. ked shampoo. no silicone, parabens or dyes. [ wind whisping ] bare your softest hair with new herbal essences naked. [ woman ] ahh. even the ends of my hair are tingling.

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what's been valuable about this summit, it's not just been talk, it's been action, and that is because of the leadership that's been shown by heads of state of government and heads of government that have participated in this effort, as well as the extraordinary work of foreign ministers and sherpas and others who have helped to move this process forward. i'm looking forward to hosting all of you. >> that was the president just moments ago at the closing of the nuclear security summit, but at the top of the hour, we also expect the president to take questions about the g8's decision to give russia the boot over the annexation of crimea. it's now the g7. nbc's peter alexander is traveling with the president. peter, give us a sense of what white house officials are saying about this decision over russia.

>> reporter: yeah, chris, we'll give you that headline in a second. also we heard from the president specifically chicago will be hosting the next nuclear security summit. that news breaking in the last ten minutes, that will take place in 2016, but the white house can feel good it got basically the bare minimum out of this conference, not so much the nuclear summit, but the g7 meeting, the emergency meeting that the president hastily arranged with europe, canada, japan, and the u.s. gathering here, basically kicking russia out going forward. the desire was to send a very clear message to russia. what they came up with was language that basically threatened sanctions on some of the key and lucrative sectors within russia within its economy, arms, banking, energy would be included in that. those sectors likely to be hit if russia is to move further into eastern or southern ukraine, but what was not accomplished here, what appears not to be the case, is there

will be any change to the status quo, which is to say no one is going to be going any further if russia is to stay put as it is right now, having already ann annexed crimea and holding on to it. another significant piece of news was the shot across the bow to vladimir putin, who was looking forward to hosting the upcoming sochi g8 summit to take place this spring. now, in fact, that's going to take place in brussels in june with g7, which is significant, brussels is a symbolic place where the president heads later today, where it also hosts the e.u. and nato, as well. >> nbc's peter alexander traveling with the president, thank you. i want to bring in david rohde. david, it's good to have you back. look, they made the decision, now it's the g7, they are moving it from sochi, at least publicly the reaction from vladimir putin to the suggestion before it

happened they wouldn't go to sochi was kind of a shrug, but what's this likely really to do. what's his reaction likely to really be? >> it looks like he's stopped for now. he's taken crimea, and we can talk about that, but there's sort of a red line here. i know the president will never use that phrase again, what the u.s. and europe said together was serious economic sanctions if he goes into more of ukraine. it's hurting the russian economy. the russian finance ministry admitted growth in february was zero in the russian economy, they lost $70 billion in capital fleeing the country and could go into recession because of this, but the flip side of this, putin, critics will argue, has gotten away with taking crimea. there's no pressure to get the russians out of crimea. this is about stopping them from going further. >> there does seem to be, at least on the part of angela merkel, who have so much to lose, at least a willingness to make these threats. >> yes, and that's the big shift

here and looks like that was the compromise between the u.s. and europe. germany didn't want to go that far, but merkel was onboard with saying if he moves into further parts of ukraine, if putin does that, there will be serious european economic sanctions, so it was a step forward. >> there's also what congress is up to in all of this, and senate majority leader harry reid suggested the opposition to provisions in the senate ukraine aid package may have emboldened russia to take crimea. let me play that for you. >> the house has acted once already. we're going to act again later on this week to help the ukrainians and to put sanctions on president putin. and what the senate ought to be doing is taking up our bills and just moving. what they are trying to do here is bring unrelated items into this debate. all it's going to do is slow the whole process down, so i would

hope that we would find a common ground, pass it, so that we can help our friends. >> as we watch congress, and this is probably no surprise, because we've seen it on so many other issues, suddenly they are talking about the imf and 501 nonprofits. how important is it that they get this done? >> it's very important, and this is just a great example yet again how squabbling in washington makes the united states much weaker on the world stage. we're not talking about that much money. the u.s. is providing several hundred million that will give ukraine $1 billion in loan guarantees, not cash. the e.u. is talking about giving the ukrainian government $15 billion. putin offered $15 billion with no strings attached. we're fighting about imf rules, the partisan deadlock hurts our standing on the world stage. >> people don't take us seriously because we're not putting action behind our words. >> this is important. think about it, russia and the e.u. are offering 15 times the

amount of aid to the ukrainian government that the u.s. is trying to offer, and we can't even offer the $1 billion. >> if you were there, what's the question you'd want to ask the question at the top of the hour? putting david on the spot. >> i think what pushes, you know, has putin gotten away with crimea in essence, it's a good compromise he got with the germans, but he's succeeded in taking crimea. that's taken a precedent, will china act on that precedent? is syria emboldened? that's the question i'd ask. >> david rohde, thanks, always good to have you here. coming up, the latest on the search for survivors in washington state, likely caused by heavy rainfall. plus, bill karins is going to join us with the forecast. the misery of winter refuses to give in to spring.

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washington state where the sun is coming up on a new search day, but hope may be fading as authorities comb through the mudslide aftermath. >> it's muddy. in areas it's like quick sand. the debris field is like big berms of clay and quick sand. one of the folks out there told me, he says, you know, chief, sometimes it takes five minutes to walk, you know, 40, 50 feet and get our equipment over these berms. salesperson #1: so again, throwing in the $1,000 fuel reward card is really what makes it like two deals in one. salesperson #2: actually, getting a great car with 42 highway miles per gallon makes it like two deals in one. salesperson #1: point is there's never been a better time to buy a jetta tdi clean diesel. avo: during the first ever volkswagen tdi clean diesel event get a great deal on a jetta tdi. it gets 42 highway miles per gallon. and get a $1,000 fuel reward card.

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>> the search is tedious and dangerous. conditions are being described as dismal. nbc news channel reporter joins us now from arlington, washington. let's start with what we know. 14, is there an expectation that that death toll will rise, and what about the number of people who may be missing? >> reporter: that number has been so fluid, as you know, chris, it was 18, then it was 108 yesterday, and then by yesterday evening, it was up to 178. officials tell us they are certain that many of the names on the list are duplicates. they have ruled out the obvious duplicates, but they were pleading with people, family members, to either check in so they could check someone off that list or send more specific information so that they could eliminate the obvious duplicates on that list. that being said, the death toll is definitely expected to rise, because there were 200 people

that lived in that community in the area that was covered by mud, and it was a saturday, and there were people passing through, a lot of people were home and they were caught completely unawares by this. so that's the expectation, is that they will, now that the search has really gotten back under way, that they will find and identify more bodies in the rubble. >> so have they officially moved from rescue to recovery, and talk a little bit about the dangers for the searchers themselves. >> reporter: it is a dangerous search. they have not turned that emergency manager said, it's a delicate corner to turn. they have not changed it into a recovery mission. it's still a rescue mission. they are allowing volunteers in to look through the rubble, and we had one glimmer of light yesterday as the family went back to a family farm and was looking through the rubble, they found the family dog, buddy chocolate lab was rescued. he had been alive and trapped

inside their home. his owner, their sister, their grandmother, was still missing in that home, which was encased partially in mud, but the dog survived, so their feeling was, if a dog can survive in an air hole in a gap, why can't a person? so they are still holding out hope, but they are realistic about what they expect to find, chris. >> jennifer in snowe hoe mish county, thanks for that update. more rain in the forecast can hamper the search and rescue efforts. i want to bring in bill karins. let's talk a little bit about what rescuers may be facing in the days ahead. >> not a pretty forecast. this will set the stage, the month of march is one of the wettest they've seen in the pacific northwest for this time of year. seattle themselves had over seven inches. this area social security up higher. they probably got more than that, probably ended up with

somewhere around nine to ten inches just this month alone. there's a river that undercuts the mountain. that contributed to the mudslide and this is actually a hill with numerous mudslides in the last 50, 60 years. there's probably some answers to be done with why these people were put in harm's way and why they were able to build as they did. these answers can come later. now as far as the forecast today, you see the green, this is rain. it's soaking right up i-5. it's not a heavy rain, but it's not helping and there's no signs of this relaxing during the day today. tomorrow will be a little better, but the general forecast for the northwest is very damp, very typical of the northwest. notice thursday into friday, light rain continues, maybe a few down pours, so not ideal conditions for the rescuers, and there's the river running right through the area they had the mudsli mudslides, so they are concerned about that. now let's turn our attention to the east. yes, about a week away from april, but this is going to be a huge storm, biggest storm on the

east coast since hurricane sandy. the difference, this was 200 miles off the coast. thankful this pushed away. halifax, canada, they are going to have a lot of damage with hurricane-force winds up here. but we'll have a glancing blow down east maine. snowfall totals, nothing major, but d.c. and philly picking up an inch or two. finally, chris, the third weather story. they haven't been able to do much searching for the flight mh370 because of the storm. it's weird to look at the weather map because everything spins backwards below the equator, but that's why they couldn't do searching over the last 24 hours. that's going to clear out. tomorrow looks better. >> all right, well, eventually spring will come. thank you so much, bill. meteorologist bill karins. checking the news field this morning, tar balls are washing up along the shore of galveston

bay, texas, as many as 170,000 gallons of oil were dumped into the bay. teams are feverishly working to save wildlife and today the coast guard will decide whether to reopen the channel, because there are 80 ships hoping to pass through. federal investigators are looking into whether the woman at the controls of the train that derailed might have dozed off shortly before the crash, but officials say there's a safety control system that should have stopped the train, even if the operator did fall asleep. 32 people were hurt. experts say if it happened any time during the middle of the night it could have been worse. trying to figure out how a gunman was able to bypass security in norfolk, virginia. the civilian was able to get onboard and kill a sailor. this is the second shooting in six months under the navy's watch. in september, a gunman killed 12

at the washington naval yard. the prosecution has rested its case in the oscar pistorius trial, but not before revealing damaging private text messages between pistorius and girlfriend reeva steenkamp. on january 27th, just weeks before pistorius shot steenkamp, a fight apparently fuelled by jealousy and she texted "i was not flirting with anyone today. i felt sick that you suggested that and that you made a scene at the table and made us leave early. i'm scared of you sometimes and how you snap at me." pistorius's defense team countered most of the text messages were loving. court is adjourned until friday when the defense will begin its case, and pistorius is expected to testify. coming up at the top of the hour, president obama taking questions for the first time since vladimir putin was kicked out of the g8, now the g7. we'll have that live right here on msnbc. ♪ [ male announcer ] you're watching one of the biggest

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head and neck injury could increase your risk of stroke. while uncommon among people under 50, people who recently had a head or neck injury have triple a risk of stroke. researchers state this may be due to injury tearing blood vessels that lead to the brain. breaking news in the case of the friend of the suspected bomber in the boston marathon. no charges will be filed in the shooting death last may. todashev was shot by the fbi. just moments ago, prosecutors released a report that found special agents were justified in shooting him, that they acted in self defense. according to the associated press, todashev threatened the fbi agent with a pole before he

was shot. he also confessed his involvement in the massachusetts triple murder. to politics now. when the early groundwork is being laid for a run at the white house in 2016, the cross-country travels of potential candidates looking like a campaign road map. joe biden is visiting new hampshire today. jeb bush was in texas yesterday. kind of reminiscent of another event in philadelphia last december when bush joked with her about the presidential primary season. >> hillary and i come from different political parties and we disagree about a few things, but we do agree on the wisdom of the american people, especially those in iowa and new hampshire and south carolina. in fact, i think secretary clinton might be in des moines next week. now, don't actually wear the medal there, madam secretary. >> i'd like to bring in zerlina maxwell and grio.com contributor

chris wilson, republican pollster of the texas republican party under then-governor george w. bush. good to see both of you, good morning. >> good morning. >> good morning. >> do you guys think other potential candidates, joe biden, ted cruz, rand paul, are just waiting to see when hillary clinton and jeb bush decide whether to run for president before, zerlina, they decide? >> i think so. i think that largely this is the race to see who can be captain of junior varsity on the republican side, in many ways. i think rand paul, he joked the other day about being an asker of money, that's true, but he has a lot of corporate lobbyist money tied up, that's why he doesn't need to ask for money. he's very much the darling of the grassroots on the right. i think hillary clinton, this is a case in which she is the front-runner, but i think there is a danger. there's a very, very real danger for us to, you know, say she has it wrapped up this early. >> obviously, but let's look at

the republican side, and for a long time, chris, there was a lot of talk about chris christie, but we know he's had his problems. now there seems to be a growing suspicion maybe jeb bush is talking seriously about getting into the race. does that automatically make him the favorite, and obviously, the run you need, staff you need, money, is anybody else going to have trouble in the meantime? >> well, there's a lot in that question. i'll go through it point by point. in terms of going out and campaigning today, it's never too early to start. voters in iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, they are used to meeting the candidates face to face and that's why you see jeb bush and rand paul and even chris christie going up and going to those states early. from a money standpoint, jeb bush and hillary clinton have established fundraising bases through their family connections, through past runs, so you've got other candidates that need to start to build those connections, but the case we saw really four years ago and eight years ago is candidates

rise and fall based on the strength or failures of a single news cycle and one debate. so who is a front-runner today means absolutely nothing from what it is a couple years ago. i like the comment about it being the junior varsity because we have no idea who's going to be on the varsity team. >> i think we know the varsity team captain. you're still looking for a team captain. whenever jeb bush is someone we're excited about, i think you've gone wrong somewhere, because jeb bush is not a new candidate. >> neither is hillary clinton. >> i think that's true, but the difference is hillary has established support and grassroots support. jeb bush is the favorite of the establishment, not the grassroots, which he'll need to win the primary. >> the decision has to be made, okay, we're talking about sort of the timeline here, so here's what she said, again, side stepping the question at a clinton global initiative event a couple of days ago. >> if you don't represent women

in politics and america as a future president, who will? >> look, i am -- i am very much concerned about the direction of our country. give me your name and number. obviously, thinking about all kinds of decisions. >> so, i guess the question then becomes when you're hillary clinton and there is no doubt she's the one. to be fair, if she's not going to run, when does she have to let the rest of the field know? >> i think by the end of the year. that's largely the indicators all point to the end of the year. but i think the money and the super pac money in particular going behind hillary is in response to conservative pac money that's already being put together in order to set up attacks against hillary clinton and the closet sexists will come

out of -- the sexists will come out of the closet in 2016 if she decides to run and we'll know by the end of the year. >> none of the frontrunners will have problems raising money. you look at both candidates and from a republican nominee, democratic nominee, frontrunners have had plenty of money. the battle royal will be between joe biden and hillary clinton. biden is making it clear he's not going to wait for hillary clinton to make that decision. she may take until the end of the year, but biden is running strong now. as you watch the two of them start to jockey for top democratic donors, that's going to be exciting to watch. also take a little bit of point with zerlina's point about jeb bush. i disagree about the grassroots strength behind his candidacy. jeb bush is being dragged into this race by the grassroots. he's someone who's popular. he's not his brother, he's not his dad. he's got a different base of support. you look back to people trying to recruit him in, it's not your

traditional republican establishment supporters, it really is grassroots leadership. >> chris, zerlina, good to have both of you here. we'll have this conversation again. thank you so much. >> thanks. today's tweet of the day comes from the first lady's twitter handle. thai chi is a wonderful form of physical activity and i loved giving it a try. does that make a difference? search "cost of financial advisors" ouch! over time it really adds up. then go to e*trade and find out how much our advice costs. spoiler alert. it's low. really? yes, really. e*trade offers investment advice and guidance from dedicated professional financial consultants. it's guidance on your terms not ours that's how our system works. e*trade. less for us, more for you.

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that wraps up this hour of "jansing and co." i'm chris jansing. "news nation" with tamron hall is up next with live coverage from the president's press conference from the nether lantds. i'll see you back here tomorrow. [ woman ] i'd be a writer. [ man ] i'd be a baker. [ woman ] i wanna be a pie maker. [ man ] i wanna be a pilot. [ woman ] i'd be an architect. what if i told you someone could pay you and what if that person were you? ♪ when you think about it, isn't that what retirement should be, paying ourselves to do what we love? ♪ ergens? paying ourselves to do what we love?

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with new, dermatologist tested, my dad has aor afib.brillation, he has the most common kind... ...it's not caused by a heart valve problem. dad, it says your afib puts you at 5 times greater risk of a stroke. that's why i take my warfarin every day. but it looks like maybe we should ask your doctor about pradaxa. in a clinical trial, pradaxa® (dabigatran etexilate mesylate)... ...was proven superior to warfarin at reducing the risk of stroke. and unlike warfarin, with no regular blood tests or dietary restrictions. hey thanks for calling my doctor. sure. pradaxa is not for people with artificial heart valves. don't stop taking pradaxa without talking to your doctor. stopping increases your risk of stroke. ask your doctor if you need to stop pradaxa before surgery or a medical or dental procedure. pradaxa can cause serious, sometimes fatal, bleeding. don't take pradaxa if you have abnormal bleeding or have had a heart valve replaced.

seek immediate medical care for unexpected signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. pradaxa may increase your bleeding risk if you're 75 or older, have a bleeding condition or stomach ulcer, take aspirin, nsaids, or blood thinners... ...or if you have kidney problems, especially if you take certain medicines. tell your doctors about all medicines you take. pradaxa side effects include indigestion, stomach pain, upset, or burning. if you or someone you love has afib not caused by a heart valve problem... ...ask your doctor about reducing the risk of stroke with pradaxa. good morning, everyone, i'm tamron hall, and this is "news nation." developing now, we are looking at live pictures from the hague where any minute we are expecting a joint news conference from president obama and his dutch counterpart, the prime minister of the netherlands. president obama is in the netherlands for the nuclear

security summit, but that event has been overshadowed by russia's suspension yesterday from the g8 group of nations. we may hear more from another developing story regarding proposed legislation regarding the nsa, the president's stance there. meanwhile, the desperate search for survivors continues after that weekend's massive mudslide in washington state. 176 people have been reported missing since the landslide, though officials stress that many of those reports may be duplicates. president obama has now declared a state of emergency and fema has dispatched rescue efforts for the search of survivors. trained dogs are also being used to work on the rescue effort, but with no survivors found since saturday, time may be running out. >> i never lose faith, and a lot of the people in this community will never lose