is so much more to this story as we've learned to hour. it's about the people. before we even find a single piece of the wreckage. as this plays out, count on us to bring it all to you. msnbc coverage continues right now on now with alex wagner. obamacare goes to court aga again. it is tuesday, march 24th and this is "now." >> a make or break moment in health care. womens rights and religious liberty. >> key argument before the supreme court. a question it has never faced before. can a business claim it has freedom of religion? >> the company line. arguing that insurance policies should not have to cover certain types of birth control. >> the first challenge to the health care law in nearly two years. >> birth control is mandated,

but they say it violates their religious beliefs. >> women take birth control for other conditions. >> the obama administration has really defending this mandate under intense political criticism. >> this is the court that said for profit companies can have free speech rights. >> this could be a slippery slope. >> could it go to immunization? >> if you're gay and you're going to have a wedding, then a florist or caterer can say no, it is my religious beliefs allowing me not to serve you. >> no one is forced to take control. it's an individual right. >> this is the 21st century. and yet another landmark case, the supreme court appears divided. that seems to be the take away today after 90 minutes of oral arguments this morning. the issue is if the two

corporations should have the same as religious organizations. their case could have implications far beyond birth control. if a corporation has a right to religious freedom, it would object to vaccines or aids medication or family leave. acco according to today's reports, those were some of the concerns of the courts liberal justices. ginsburg, kagan and sotomayor, but justice roberts and alito seemed to accept the idea of personhood. citizens united meanwhile justi justice briar remained quiet and clarence said nothing. once again, the decisive vote likely to fall on justice anthony kennedy. the court is expected to reach a decision in late june. joining me from washington the elise hogue and in los angeles,

california state senate candidate. you were in the courtroom today and there seemed to be two issues here. one is whether corporations do the, are entitled to religious freedoms as protected in the u.s. constitution and the second is whether the contraception mandate represents some sort of burden. on the second point, i'm curious to know what you thought of the arguments because at one point from what i understand, hobby lobby actually offered its employees a plan that would have covered the very thing they are saying is an undue burden, coverage of plan b pill. what did you think of the argument on that point in particular? >> i mean, let me start by saying thank goodness for justices ginsburg, sotomayor and kagan. i cannot imagine what it must have been like before we had any kind of gender representation on the board because they were the only ones who are actually articulating an understanding of

what's at stake for 99% of women in this country who depend on birth control for some reason. you know, it really was a fascinating oral argument and the question of whether it places an undue burden on the employer was you know, debated hotly and really only a moment was spent on whether or not finding in favor of hobby lobby would place undue burden on the workers. that is a big concern. and as this case unfolds, is if the court finds in favor of the plaintiffs, it would be the first time that corporate rights were upheld, the idea that -- to be this or that would be upheld at the expense of their workers,

where it would quash the rights of their workers and that would set a very, very chilling precedent. >> let me follow up. in terms of the female justices, it is great to have women on the supreme court and we hear from reporters that they were the most skeptical. what was the sense that you got in terms of level of indignation from these three women in and around this case? >> you know, it's, i was impressed by the presentation of their questions. i was impressed by the fact that they were actually really pushing the plaintiff counsel on what does this mean? where does it end? today, this is about eliminating women's right to equal coverage under the health care law to our reproductive health, but what does it mean in terms of an employer who might impose vaccines and oppose blood transfusions and in articulating those concerns, they were very, very clear that they understand that access to contraception is

health care. it is a medicine just like thousands of other medications out there that are, that have not been debated in the supreme court or anywhere else including viagra, by the way, and therefore, what obamacare has done has created equality among medical treatment for women. it's incredibly important point and the justices, kagan, sotomayor and ginsburg made sure that it was entered into the court record. >> sandra, elise brings up a really good point and men and women and sort of mythologies around contraception. and that, i don't think a lot of people know, i think it's 58% of women have used contraception for medical purposes. there's also the myth making around plan b, which hobby lobby is considering an abortive pill, when it is not. it is a contraceptive pill. that seems to be as much at the root of this as politics. you were involved in a hurricane

in and around the subject of contraception and access to contraceptive pills. how, how do we better explain to people that this is a fairly basic form of health care? >> well, i think we keep talking about that. we keep putting education out into the public, but this really highlights one of the most serious problems with what the court could potentially decide in their decision here. is they could have your boss, the owner of the corporation, be making decisions about medical science because that's what's happening here is the owners of hobby lobby and wood specialties are deciding what they think is abortion versus what they think is birth control and they're not doctors, they're not scientists and their decisions and personal convictions should not be forced upon their employees, so this really points to one of the potentially harmful

consequences. >> they're arguing that they are morally opposed to something where the science is unproven that one should be opposed. really coupumbersome way of explaining, this whole case comes to disbelieving actual science around plan b. >> there was a chilling moment when chief justice roberts said that science doesn't matter. all that matters is these employers believe this is real. these contraceptions might be as they call them, which medical science has said they're not. justice roberts was saying doesn't matter what the science says. what matters is what these bosses believe and that gives them providence over what employees can and cannot do. >> in terms of vaccines, one could say i believe vaccines create decide in youisease in yn

and therefore am not covering them. regardless of what science actually says. >> it could be a whole list of different health care treatments. there are still folks who have religious based objections to hiv or aids treatment, mental health or blood transfusions, but it even goes beyond what types of health care services a corporation could deny its employees access to on health care insurance. it also goes to the level of what other laws could a corporation say we don't need to comply with because our owners have a personal objection. we've already in the past, seen corporate and owners of corporations saying that they had objections to a whole list of nondiscrimination laws. we continue to see that stated regarding the lgbt community, but it's one of the main fights over the civil rights movement in the past and we've seen cases where folks have said that their corporation should not have to pay women equal pay for equal

work because they objected on religious grounds. >> there's a whole flip side to this argument that corporate america seems away of, but is underdiscuss underdiscusseded. once you open the door and lift the corporate veil, you sort of open a pandora's box of litigation effectively and corporate america seems to understand this, has sounded sort of neutral in this entire supreme court, in these hearings because they know if corporations are treated as people, then there's a whole host of lit ga torre activity that could then follow. it would seem like if there is a case to be made to the conservative justices on the supreme court, that would be it. >> well, absolutely. and we didn't talk about that or didn't hear much conversation about that in the context of the hearings today, although brian did point out in salon and i

think this is the split we've seen all along. corporations have certainly orgeded for person hood, they understand they're walking a delicate line and if you cease to make a distinction between the ceo and corporate entity, that means that individuals who run companies can be liable in ways they're protected from in terms of employees suing the corporation right now and there's a real financial cost to that. by the way, this is also where we've seen dividing lines on this issue with insurance companies. part of the reason insurance companies have traditionally covered contraception is because it is the best way to help women stay healthy and have intended pregnancies, which we know are the lowest risk pregnancies, so therefore from a business perspective, offering contraception is a good business decision, so we're seeing that decision here. where you've got the zealots

saying forget about that. my morals trump that and i get to tell you what to do and you've got other corporations going, not so fast. we're not sure what this means. >> before we go, this breaking news, breaking news banner here, this probably doesn't have that much to do, or as much to do with religious freedom in a real moral objection to the contraception mandate in the aca. this is a hugely political case and you know, representative of that is the fact that 80 amicus briefs were filed on this, which is one of the highest tallies ever. 53% of the country does not believe employers should be exempted from the contraceptive mandate, but this case and in particular, hobby lobby, throws open the doors to repealing and replacing parts of f the affordable care act and i think that's why it's gotten so much traction on the right.

>> i think it's important because it has such severe implications for women's health care, but really important legal ramifications. yes, it's politicized, but this is a potential major change to our constitutional law and i believe damage to our religious liberty protections because we've fought for a long time to have the right balance on those that protects individual religious liberty along with protecting employees and the public and other safety and health care, so this is an important constitution moment as well. >> thank you both. we will talk to you again in the coming weeks, my friends. >> thank you. just ahead, apparently, the government does not want your phone data anymore. the president has a new plan for the nsa. and rand paul is taking credit for it. david ignatius and sam stein join me coming up, but first, anxiety and anguish turn into aggression as families of passengers of flight 370 lash

out at the government. details next on "now." marge: you know, there's a more enjoyable way to get your fiber. try phillips fiber good gummies. they're delicious, and a good source of fiber to help support regularity. wife: mmmm husband: these are good! marge: the tasty side of fiber. from phillips.

the search for debris from flight 370 is suspended today due to dangerous winds in the indian ocean. investigators hope better weather will allow the search to resume wednesday morning. the malaysian government is facing skepticism over its conclusion that the plane went down at sea leaving no survivor. today, china's foreign ministry demanded the malaysian government turn over the

satellite that says the plane is located deep within the southern indian ocean. this morning, dozens of distraught -- accused the country of deception. a representative for some of the families called for the release of more evidence. >> we just want the truth and if you make a conclusion with no exact evidence, just from data, why you make the conclusion and why you make the conclusions that no one is alive. i don't believe that. >> keir simmons has more from kuala lumpur. >> the anger of many families continues no matter what ma lay sha airlines has to say. today, trying to quell some of the anger by saying again they had done their very best to tell all relatives at least in person or by phone, before making an

announcement last night that it is believed flight 370 ended in the southern indian ocean. families not happy with that. particularly in beijing, where they marched today. incredibly unusual in china, to the malaysian embassy, to protest. says that it is working with the australians to see when this debris that has been spotted might be found again. might be tested, might be proven to be the plane and only then the airline says will australia issue visas for families to go there. that is the crucial moment the families have been waiting for even with all of the questions they still have about how this conclusion was reached and why. back to you. >> thanks. coming up, president obama offers condolences and disaster aid after mudslides kill more than a dozen people in washington state.

the latest on that recovery and the warning signs just ahead, but first, billions of dollars in international aid money is being held in part because mitch mcconnell is worried about being re-elected. that's next. [ male announcer ] this is kevin. to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for him, he's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. i was okay, but after lunch my knee started to hurt again. and now i've got to take more pills. ♪ yup. another pill stop. can i get my aleve back yet? ♪ for my pain, i want my aleve. ♪ [ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap. ♪ [ mala body at rest tends to stay at rest... while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms.

but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion. because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with arthritis pain and inflammation. plus, in clinical studies, celebrex is proven to improve daily physical function so moving is easier. celebrex can be taken with or without food. and it's not a narcotic. you and your doctor should balance the benefits with the risks. all prescription nsaids, like celebrex, ibuprofen, naproxen and meloxicam have the same cardiovascular warning. they all may increase the chance of heart attack or stroke, which can lead to death. this chance increases if you have heart disease or risk factors such as high blood pressure or when nsaids are taken for long periods. nsaids, like celebrex, increase the chance of serious skin or allergic reactions, or stomach and intestine problems, such as bleeding and ulcers, which can occur without warning and may cause death. patients also taking aspirin and the elderly are at increased risk for stomach bleeding and ulcers. don't take celebrex

if you have bleeding in the stomach or intestine, or had an asthma attack, hives, other allergies to aspirin, nsaids or sulfonamides. get help right away if you have swelling of the face or throat, or trouble breathing. tell your doctor your medical history. and find an arthritis treatment for you. visit celebrex.com and ask your doctor about celebrex. for a body in motion. so, what'd you think of the house? did you see the school rating? oh, you're right. hey, babe, i got to go. bye, daddy. have a good day at school, okay? ♪ [ man ] but what about when my parents visit? okay. just love this one. it's next to a park. [ man ] i love it. i love it, too. here's your new house. ♪ daddy! [ male announcer ] you're not just looking for a house. you're looking for a place for your life to happen. zillow. you're looking for a place for your life to happen. olet's say you pay your tguy around 2 percent to manage your money. that's not much, you think except it's 2 percent every year. does that make a difference? search "cost of financial advisors"

ouch! over time it really adds up. then go to e*trade and find out how much our advice costs. spoiler alert. it's low. really? yes, really. e*trade offers investment advice and guidance from dedicated professional financial consultants. it's guidance on your terms not ours that's how our system works. e*trade. less for us, more for you. a bipartisan proposal for international aid is at the center of a fight over campaign finance reform and america's ability to exert its americanness. the aid is for ukraine, but mitch mcconnell declared today that the bill for that aid can never become law because republicans won't accept a request by president obama to include reforms to the international monetary fund or the imf. >> in order for it to become law, the controversial imf

provision must be removed. this simply cannot be a take it or leave it situation. >> the changes that democrats want would grant more flexibility for developing countries to use american funds, but republicans cannot abide by the idea that somehow, this might make america less powerful in international dealings and in the words of a letter from several gop senators, undermine our influence. so, this afternoon, the house foreign affairs committee passed its ukraine aid bill without the reforms and sent it for a vote of the full house and with the aid package now in jeopardy, harry reid said this afternoon he will likely drop the reforms to basely get her done because basically, people's lives depend on this money. >> this bill is important. as john kerry said yesterday, he wants both of them, but the main thing is to get the aid now. >> in fact, he suggested last

night that the gop may have helped russia annex crimea by delaying the vote. senator mcconnell did not like that at all and responded to it today. >> yesterday, he actually came to the floor to effectively blame republicans, believe it or not, for the invasion of crimea. i mean, who writes this stuff? it's not just completely unhelpful. it also injects hyper partisanship into a process when we should all be working together. >> in change, republicans are said to be dropping their effort to delay administration changes to rules that would be cracking down on the political activities of non-profits. a convenient delay when you're trying to rally as much outside money as possible to get re-elected, cough, cough, we are looking at you, senator mitch mcconnell. america, this is our democracy at work. after the break, new plans to reform the nsa.

the latest overhaul to what was formerly known as the war on terror. david ignatius and sam stein discuss, next. are you still sleeping? just wanted to check and make sure that we were on schedule. the first technology of its kind... mom and dad, i have great news. is now providing answers families need. siemens. answers.

i have a cold with this annoying runny nose. [ sniffles ] i better take something. [ male announcer ] dayquil cold and flu doesn't treat all that. it doesn't? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus fights your worst cold symptoms plus has a fast-acting antihistamine. oh, what a relief it is!

plus has a fast-acting antihistamine.

geico motorcycle. see how much you could save. press pause on russia. press play on the nsa. big news from the administration just hours ago with the release of new guidelines on the nsa's bulk collection of u.s. telephone data. at a press conference in the netherlands this morning, the president was asked by both u.s. and european reporters about his latest proposal to reform american intelligence gathering. >> this ensures that the government is not in possession of that bulk data. the second thing the people were concerned about is making sure

that not only is a judge overseeing the overall program, but also that a judge is looking at each individual inquiry that's made into a database and this new plan that's been presented to me does that. >> according to the "new york times," which first reported the details last night, under the white house guidelines, the nsa would no longer store the data associated with americans phone calls. that responsibility would lie with the phone companies and those companies would be required to keep data for 18 months, which is less than the five-year hold currently employed by the nsa. government access to phone records would also be limited to two instead of three, that's what the current number is, degrees of separation between a contact and intended target. something the intelligence community calls hops. and rather than renewing broad authorization for all data requests every 90 days, the foreign intelligence

surveillance court would be required to approve each new data questirequesting. the timing does not seem coincidental. while the audience remains divided over snowden's leaks, the revelation that the u.s. spied on world leaders has created a massive headache for president obama and it is something he addressed this morning in holland. >> any one issue can be an irritant in the relationship between the countries, but it doesn't define those relationships. but i recognize that because of these revelations, that there's a process that's taking place where we have to win back the trust, not just of governments, but more importantly, of ordinary citizens. >> and yet, the proposal is just that. a proposal. the real task of legislation will go to congress. a place where there are already several competing proposals. today, the chairman and ranking

member unveiled their version, the end bulk data collection act, which while similar to the white house proposal, would not require judicial approval prior to accessing phone records. >> we think that we have found the way to end the government's bulk collection of telephone metta data and still provide a mechanism to protect the united states and track those terr terrorists who are calling in to the united states to commit acts of terror. >> this should be a team effort. it shouldn't be every republican or democrat. the stakes are just too high. >> but if history is a guide, high stakes have never stopped congress from doing nothing. as first read noted this morning, this issue has grand standing written all over it and indeed, who is better at grand standing than rand paul? >> i don't want to take all the credit for ending this, but i think our lawsuit had something to do with bringing the president to the table. >> you're welcome, america.

joining me now is editor for the "washington post," david ignatius and political editor and white house correspondent at the "huffington post," sam stein. david, you first, and the president referred to this, he used the word, irritant, in his speech, but certainly winning back the trust of governments and individuals is more than an irritant. it is an issue for this white house and i feel like today was the first time we have really seen tangible evidence of how deeply or how much the snowden revelations have hurt this government on the international stage. >> well, president obama gave his speech several months ago in which he called for the kinds of reforms that were specifically proposed to end the day and so, he's been responding for a while. to say this is an irritant overseas is putting it almost absurdly mildly. in my travels since the revelations began last summer,

in europe, i've just been astonished by the intensity of public feeling. people really are upset about this. when i say people, governments, individual citizens. i would just note that as near as i can tell from with what i've seen today, the proposals that the president is making and that congressman rogers and rupert in the house are making, deal with a collection of meta da data, bull data, about americans phone calls. it doesn't go to the question of spying on foreigners or foreign government officials. that is intelligence collection. it's in a separate channel and the president, if he wants to win back trust overseas, is going to have to speak to that directly in a way that this bill as i read it, doesn't. >> that's a very important point. also inherent in making these changes to the meta data

collection, is an admission that we didn't really need to hold on to these records to begin with, as reason magazine says, the program was essential until it became dispensable. >> yeah, and this is sort of the point that senator ron wyden, a critic of the bulk collection program, was making today. which is that for years, we've been told or i guess for months since the revelation, that these were absolutely critical to combatting terrorism. that you needed to three hops. that you couldn't wait for a fisa approval of the request, that any time like that would be the difference of an explosion happening or not. and now, we get today that in fact, intelligence community can apparently live with having to go to the fisa court to get a request granted. with not housing the data itself, with allowing the phone companies to house it and allowing the phone companies to get rid of it after 18 months, so there is a bit of egg on the face here, or at least a little

exposure from past statements made by the intelligence committee. >> to follow on sam's point there, it feels like we are in the middle of sort of a broad examination, if not a re-examination of the war on terror and just what sort of these, how these programs benefitted ut in terms of keeping the country safer and i point to both the changing position on the meta data and collection of phone records, but also, the senate intelligence committee and the cia and about what exactly enhanced interrogation got us in terms of a national security. do you think, you know, if you could, do you think this will measurably change our national security policy before the end of this administration? >> well, our national security policies have already changed. president obama put in place a number of changes when he became president. what we're seeing now i think is a detailed sorting through both of what happened during the war on terror years principally of

the bush administration. after 9/11. and also that the rules should be going forward. i think sam's right that the intelligence committee's claims about what it needed are now being tested and what the president has approved is far less than what they would before and said they needed, but by the same token, records will be kept and can be searched for 18 months with the phone companies holding them and this idea that it's important to be able to look at who suspected terrorists from overseas may have contacted in the united states, that there's still going to be an inability to do that and i would guess that most americans would probably think that's a good idea. there's just no question i think in anyone's mind, that what happened was grossly excessive and under our new laws, is

illegal. i think the question is how much of the detail of what happened should properly be revealed to the public and that's being battled out between ci and the congress as it should be. that's basically how this dynamic should work. >> can i just jump in on that? >> should look at what the cia does and between the two, some balance should be struck. >> sam, go ahead. >> there's always been a tug of war within this administration over how much you should reveal about what we were doing both in the past and under this presidency, with respect to intelligence gathering, to interrogation methods. republican when the president took office in 2009, there was a huge swath of the community that wanted him to look back at those interrogations under the bush administration and put together a truth in reconciliation committee. his line was let's not look back, let's look forward.

it was primarily because of what snowden did that we got a look at what we were doing in terms of intelligence gathering, so there's always been this tug and pull about how much we should look back and examine our policies and actions and whether the public should have the right to judge them. i think what we're seeing now with respect to today's announcement, but also what's happening with the senate intelligence committee and they're back and forth with the cia, is their sort of reckoning that it has become time to step back and ask the public, are we happy or should we make changes. that also is in regards to looking back at what happened with the bush administration. >> how sincere, this goes to congress, right? >> yes. >> and there will be a battle there and i do think there is some truth to the idea that this is not a settled matter and -- >> it's not a settled matter. i think sam's right, that the administration has been conflicted from day one about

this. you can just feel the tug and pull on the president and his advisers. the only point that i would make about the congressional side of this is that the bill that was proposed today by congressman rogers and -- in the house is a bipartisan bill. in other words, the two of them have agreed on this language. it's not as tough as what the president's proposing. one thing that's interesting about the house intelligence committee is that it's avoided some of the grand standing that you see elsewhere in congress. the intense partisanship. they basically made a pact when they took over the committee that they'd try to work together and on this issue, a tough one, they've come up with a joint bill. >> david ignatius with "the washington post" and sam stein with the "huffington post," thank you both for your time and thoughts. >> thanks. >> after the break, as the country prepares to remember a pair of dark anniversaries, crews in texas fight to contain a 168,000 gallon oil spill.

have we learned anything from the deepwater horizon and exxon valdez? that is next. i'm a messy person. i don't like cleaning. i love my son, but he never cleans up. always leaves a trail of crumbs behind. you're going to have a problem with getting a wife. uh, yeah, i guess. [ laughs ] this is ridiculous. christopher glenn! [ doorbell rings ] what is that? swiffer sweep & trap. i think i can use this. it picks up everything. i like this. that's a lot of dirt. it's that easy! good job chris! i think a woman will probably come your way. [ both laugh ] i can't believe your mom has a mom cave! today i have new campbell's chunky spicy chicken quesadilla soup. she gives me chunky before every game. i'm very souperstitious. haha, that's a good one! haha! [ male announcer ] campbell's chunky soup. it fills you up right.

the cost to the texas economy continue to mount after 168,000 gallons of fuel spewed into the galveston bay on saturday. the spill started when a fright ship and tank barge collided near the intersection of the intercoastal waterway and houston ship channel. the type of oil that spilled, rmg 380 is black, thick and especially heavy. unlike gasoline, much of the oil is likely to sink and stay in the bay for months or years. already, dozens of birds in the area have been found with some degree of oil on them. this spill comes nearly four years after the deepwater horizon oil spill in the gulf of mexico. and almost 25 years to the day after the 1989 exxon valdez oil spill. the two largest oil spills in

american history. after the break, at least 14 people are dead and more than 100 are missing after a massive mudslide devastated a small washington state town. a town that has seen this kind of thing before. a part of town that is literally known as slide hill. living in a danger zone is next, but first, we have the market wrap. >> here's a look at how stocks stand going into tomorrow. the dow up 91 points. s&p rising eight and nasdaq up almost eight points. rising to highs not seen in more than six years. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. [ male announcer ] this is karen and jeremiah. they don't know it yet, but they're gonna fall in love,

get married, have a couple of kids, [ children laughing ] move to the country, and live a long, happy life together where they almost never fight about money. [ dog barks ] because right after they get married, they'll find some financial folks who will talk to them about preparing early for retirement and be able to focus on other things, like each other, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. we still run into problems. that's why liberty mutual insurance offers accident forgiveness if you qualify, and new car replacement, standard with our auto policies. so call liberty mutual at... today. and if you switch, you could save up to $423. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? is really what makes it slike two deals in one.he $1,000 fuel reward card salesperson #2: actually, getting a great car with

42 highway miles per gallon makes it like two deals in one. salesperson #1: point is there's never been a better time to buy a jetta tdi clean diesel. avo: during the first ever volkswagen tdi clean diesel event get a great deal on a jetta tdi. it gets 42 highway miles per gallon. and get a $1,000 fuel reward card. it's like two deals in one. volkswagen has the most tdi clean diesel models of any brand. hurry in and get a $1,000 fuel reward card and 0.9% apr for 60 months on tdi models.

in 1949, a landslide on a hill in the tiny village of oso, washington, took out about 2600 feet of river bank. no injuries or structural damage that time, but in 1967, another massive slide damaged dozens of homes and gave the area its nickname. slide hill. but people continued to build houses and move trailers to slide hill and the warnings went unheeded for decades. in 1999, geologist daniel miller co-authored a report he filed with the u.s. army corps of enjeers. by 2006, another landslide created a new river channel that threatened even more homes on the hill, but again, construction continued. as miller put it, they didn't even stop pounding nails. we were surprised. this weekend, it was on slide

hill where a massive mudslide on saturday wiped out nearly the entire town of oso. as of this morning, up to 176 people are missing and 14 have been declared dead. miller told the seattle times yesterday, we've known it's been failing. it is not unknown that this hazard exists. but to hear it from local authorities, you'd think that the slide was a complete surprise. >> if i had any idea that this was going to break on that saturday morning, come on, guys, you get messages from us all the time. we are very, very liberal and outspoken on the use of reverse 911s and messaging on events that are going to happen. there's a reason we have a high success rate of mitigating disasters in this county. this is just one that hit us. >> joining me now is geologist and author of the rocks don't lie, david montgomery. does it surprise you that in the you know, first decade of this

century, homes were being built on slide hill, that there were no precautions being taken or does this seem like business as usual in terms of home construction and the risks associated with it? >> this site was known to have failed in the past, so it's a very good question to ask. i think it requires a bit of geological knowledge and insight to be able to connect the dots between the slide and the far side of the river and its potential to literally overwhelm the valley. this slide was larger than the previous slides at the spot, but was there an acknowledgeded source of danger? absolutely, no question. it's a very good question to ask as to whether or not housing houb allowed to be built. >> do you have a sense of what kind of data homeowners or people constructing homes have access to? especially in sofrt risk corridors. are they aware of the sort of

danger at hand? >> no, i think that's actually a really big problem. there's sort of a gulf between a lot of the knowledge the geologists have and what homeowners may know or have access to in terms of checking out a piece of property or evaluating a place they're in. the u.s. gee oxygen cal survey has done a great job of mapping landslid landslides. the slides that went have been identified and other large slides in the past. some of which have been coarbon dated. but how does the individual homeowner have access to geologic information? the best way to ensure you have access to the knowledge that's in the community about hazards is to actually consult with with a geologist about a piece of property because not everyone's trained to read the signs. but hazard zones have been delenuated. you can ask how fairly the sites

that were overrun were probably in a flood hazard zone. the landslide was across the river and so the properties that were destroyeded in this tragedy were probably not in a hazard zone because they were on the far side of the river on flat terrain. geologists can connect those dots, but the individual homeowner probably can't. >> how much do you think this disaster was exacerbated by rainfall? we know that seattle has had the third wettest march on record. there have been seven, nearly 8 inches of rain this month. part of climate change may be wetter winters or more unseasonable climate patterns. do you think that was a factor? >> i'd be hesitant, but we've had a very wet winter. that was the proximal cause of this landslide. geologically, that slope was very unstable to begin with. we had a lot of really wet

weather and the river was conceivably cutting in to the tow, which may have contributed to destabilizing it, but we've had a lot of rainfall. >> well, it is something we are going to hopefully unravel in the comes weeks. david montgomery, thank you for your time. coming up, fake filibusterer and green eggs and ham, ted cruz, tries to channel his inner winston churchill and the results are not his finest hour. that is coming up next. i've always had to keep my eye on her... but i didn't always watch out for myself. with so much noise about health care, i tuned it all out. with unitedhealthcare, i get information that matters... my individual health profile, not random statistics. they even reward me for addressing my health risks. so i'm doing fine... but she's still gonna give me a heart attack.

innovations that work for you. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. don't worry! the united states postal service will get it there on time with priority mail flat rate shipping. ♪ whoo-hoo! ♪ [ male announcer ] our priority has always been saving the day. because our priority... amazing! [ male announcer ] ...is you! the amazing spider-man 2 delivered by the united states postal service.

(agent) i understand. (dad) we've never sold a house before. (agent) i'll walk you guys through every step. (dad) so if we sell, do you think we can swing it? (agent) i have the numbers right here and based on the comps that i've found, the timing is perfect. ...there's a lot of buyers for a house like yours. (dad) that's good to know. (mom) i'm so excited. ted cruise, politician, historian, statesman or th thespian. if you selected all of the above, you have seen this video

of him doing his best winston churchill on spine tingling repeat. >> we shall never surrender. we shall never surrender. we shall never surrender. >> that out of body experience happened in speech to the claremont institute in beverly hills, california this month. he was being awarded for statesman ship because they are the kind of people who try to shut down the government and threaten the fiscal solvency of the united states while reading children's books on the floor of the senate. but his thing for self-indulgent overly dramatic behavior is kind of a signature ted cruise thing. discussing his conviction to defund the nation's health care law. >> i can guarantee you one thing. mike and i are going to fight

with every breath in our body. as churchill said, we will fight on the beaches, the streets, we will fight at every step to stop the biggest job killer in america. >> talk about blood, toil, sweat and tears. >> did churchill really say we will fight at every step to stop the biggest job killer in america? i don't remember that part of his address during the darkest hours of world war ii. more over, it is unlikely that the man who led the charge to defeat nazi germany would equate that service, that public service, to the crusade to deny americans access to health care. but here is one thing both men probably could agree on. it was a lot easier to repeal than it is to govern. as churchill said, to build may have to be the slow and laborious task of years. to destroy can be the thoughtless act of a single day. >> we shall never surrender.

we shall never surrender. we shall never surrender. >> that is all for now. i will see you back here tomorrow at 4:00 p.m. eastern. the ed show is up next. good evening, american, and welcome to the ed show live from new york. let's get to work. >> good morning, everyone. >> wake up, wake up, wake up. >> each week we fail to act, another 72,000 people lose their benefits. >> up you wake, up you wake, up you wake. >> these families are now in danger of losing their homes. >> wake up. wake up, wake up, wake up. >> people are living on the brink of financial disaster because of these games. >> there's a reason that we have seen long-term unemployed in this country nearly double. >> i can tell you all about the back of the