's open for everyone. there's not one way to do something. no details too small. american express open forum. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. today was the biggest day in the ongoing bridge-gate scandal surrounding governor chris christie of new jersey. we still do not know why access lanes on the busiest bridge in the world were shut down. gridlocking a small town in new jersey on the orders of a senior member of governor christie's administration. but today we learned a lot more about what happened with a new resignation, and tonight, a new response from one of christie's former aides in the eye of the storm. the most striking part of today's events was how much of the events were actually carefully choreographed. several of these developments looked planned and well coordinated with team christie

axeling in the handling, all except one, a key development that broke late in the day today. we'll have more on that in a moment. theatrics began with chris christie's first press conference, first time he answered questions from journalists on the bridge-gate scandal since the initial lengthy press conference he held back in early january. that's when he first acknowledged publicly that the order to close down access lanes on the world's busiest bridge came from his office. and that he was sad. so sad that he used that word 17 times in that briefing. now, whatever happened in the intervening months, a different governor came out swinging today. >> it's nice that you eventually got to the question, but the premise of the question is so infirmed that i'm not answering it. it's amusing to me when you write stories about what you think you're entitled to. what i think you're entitled to is the answers when i get them. you know, seriously, i'm up here trying to very carefully answer your questions. i don't know whether you can't take notes or you're not

listening, but for you to characterize my last answer as i didn't want to ask her because i didn't want to know is so awful that it's beneath the job you hold. what i said was that i made -- >> beneath the job you hold. that is coming from a man discussing an internal investigation he was forced to commission after several of his aides were found to be beneath their jobs and the first thing that was evident in this new tone is that aggressive, even proud chris christie is back. it was that confident chris christie boldly asserting repeatedly that the facts were on his side. when you hear about facts from christie, today, he is citing the assertions, allegations and conclusions of lawyers hired by his office in their report. that new report as rachel explained in detail last night takes 300 pages to offer some very final thoughts after what it acknowledges was a very partial set of interviews and documents. and it argues the governor is now clear of any wrongdoing.

that entire format led to headlines like this. chris christie's lawyers clear governor. and today, chris christie came out vigorously defending that report. he was eager to push back against the inevitable media scrutiny you get when lawyers hired by your office say you're innocent and that's the end of the story. and even in this imagined victory lap, however, christie had to leave another key ally on the side of the road today. he announced the resignation of probably the most powerful and senior person to be feld by this scandal so far and he said it's basically business as usual. >> i received a call from david samson who informed me that after reviewing the master report that he completely supports the recommendations laid out for the port authority and that he believes the best way to start a new era at the port authority is with new leadership. in line with that belief, david tendered his resignation to me this afternoon effective immediately. i want to thank him for his

service and his friendship. i look forward to discussing with governor cuomo, ushering in a new era at the port authority in light of the recent events, past history, and the recommendations laid out in the mastro report. >> the resignation of david samson was big news. it was also big news that the christie administration was clearly ready to handle, to choreograph, to announce and to explain. it's not the first time samson coordinated strategies with christie, beyond being top at the port authority. he led the governor's transition team after his very first election as governor, a trusted role for an old friend and mentor. that's also why it was awkward when david samson's name turned up in the subpoenaed documents detailing bridge-gate when david wildstein and bridget kelly discussed how, "samson was helping us to retaliate." the claim at the time was samson was in on the payback against people at the port authority who were trying to stop that traffic scheme. scrutiny didn't serve samson

well at the port, either, over these past few months. as this became a national story, many journalists dug into his potential conflicts of interest. he has two roles, one as a powerful chair of the port which has a budget bigger than many states. yet he also has this ongoing and lucrative career at a law firm with clients that profit from new jersey. unlike other christie aides, samson stayed on the job through this scandal, though. he was in a position to cooperate with the lawyers for the governor's office. those lawyers we saw there on camera briefing yesterday. so it was super double awkward when their new report confirmed that samson simply refused to cooperate with or be interviewed for their investigation at all. just imagine the lawyers poring over all those documents and doing all those interviews without ever having a chat with the guy at the top of the port authority. it turns out that noncooperation was even more important today. even though david samson couldn't take the internal christie investigation seriously

enough to cooperate with it, the christie administration now says he takes the investigative reports so seriously it's why he's quitting. governor christie has stood by david samson from the moment this scandal broke and he was ready, again, to do so today. >> i spoke to general samson on january 8th and asked him what he knew about this, if he had know involvement in it. if he authorized it. or had any idea of the planning of it or any of the rest. he said, absolutely not. and that rang true to me at the time not only because of david's reputation for honesty over the course of his entire career, but also because the role of the chairman of the port authority is not an operational role. this role is a policy role. and so i wouldn't expect that david would be involved in any kind of day-to-day operational issue like a traffic study at the port authority. >> governor christie there today saying he believes david samson had zero involvement in any of

this because david samson has been in public life for a long time. that was basically the assertion. governor christie also made the case that samson's resignation effective immediately was planned for and in the works for months. >> this comes as no great shock to me, terry, because david started talking to me a year ago about want to leave and the only reason he stayed is because i asked him to. so it didn't come as a shock to me this morning that he called and said it. >> now, that is classic political misdirection there. as if it matters whether the governor was personally shocked. obviously it's not shocking if they discussed this plan for a long time. the problem is with even all that time, the only public reason they're offering for samson leaving doesn't even make sense within their own story. it raises questions as to why samson, an accomplished former attorney general, thought it's safer to use that story line than talk to fellow lawyers on team christie about what happened.

as for the governor, today he was ready for everything, for the report, for that resignation, for the press questions. he had an answer for everything. everything until late this afternoon when we got this. this is a statement from the attorney of bridget anne kelly. bridget anne kelly is, of course, the person at the center of bridge-gate. she's governor christie's former deputy chief of staff. she was the person who sent the e-mail "time for some traffic problems. with the "and she along with david wildstein is the person who's essentially being blamed for everything now. she was fired. she's been called a liar by governor christie and his attorneys. governor christie called her actions inexplicably stupid. that's a quote. her personal life has been dragged into the middle of all this by those very lawyers that chris christie hired, his office hired, without explaining why it could possibly be relevant to their investigation. in their report exonerating governor, they wrote bridget kelly had a personal relationship with governor christie's former campaign manager. and that he basically dumped her. they alluded to this multiple times in that report out

yesterday. making basically an indirect case that having that relationship end might have led her to do what she did. and they came to these conclusions again, we emphasize, without ever talking to bridget kelly or bill stepien. and they made little mention of how ending that relationship might have altered bill stepien's state of mind. they went out of their way to shine a light on a seemingly irrelevant personal set of details about bridget kelly's life. and today, for really the first time throughout this entire scandal, bridget kelly's lawyers came back. they spoke out and spoke out hard calling this report venomous, gratuitous, inappropriate, and sexist. they made it very clear there are currently two versions of this story, one that exonerates the governor and one that does not and bridget kelly could clear this all up if she wanted to. bridget kelly's attorneys go on to say in this new letter we have here, as far as they're concerned, the only credible investigation into the lane

closures is conducted by the u.s. attorney. they say she'll cooperate with the u.s. attorney if she's, "offered procedural safeguards, legal protection to testify." something that's come up for many witnesses here. interestingly, perhaps tellingly, bridget anne kelly's lawyers writes that she worked tirelessly to pursue the goals of governor christie's office when she worked there. governor christie seem prepared for everything today, resignation of a top appointee, questions from the press, everything seemed perfectly timed. is the christie administration prepared for this response from bridget kelly, all she was doing, was again, pursuing the goals of the christie administration. is the christie administration prepared for this potential bombshell from someone formerly in their innermost circle? what happens next here? hold that thought. we'll be right back. ♪ [ woman ] i'd be a writer.

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after weeks spent back on his heel, new jersey governor

chris christie got back in full swing in the last 24 hours. that was all before bridget kelly swung back early this evening. it's game on in new jersey. stay tuned. [ female announcer ] crest presents: crest 3d white whitestrips vs. a whitening pen. i feel like my lips are going to, like, wash it off. these fit nicely. [ female announcer ] crest 3d white whitestrips keep the whitening ingredient in place, guaranteeing professional level results. crest whitestrips. the way to whiten. ♪ ♪ [ female announcer ] with five perfectly sweetened whole grains... you can't help but see the good. whole grains...

buttons. what phones are supposed to have? one for each number. so-called smartphones have two, maybe three buttons max. that's neat, but what do you do when you want to dial a four? it's not so smart then, is it? (laughter) nice phone, dude. thanks! smart phones make life easier. that's why esurance is introducing video appraisal. you can use your smart phone to video chat with a claims expert. they'll assess the damage and help settle your claim faster than ever. welcome to the modern world. esurance. backed by allstate. click or call. >> what do you think of the depiction of bridgette kelly. it brought about details of her life in very unflattering terms. this is a person close to you at the time. do you think it was fair to her?

>> i think the report laid out the facts as the investigators found them, and however anybody wants to interpret those is up to your particular interpretation. >> that was governor chris christie today deferring on the question of whether the report that was put out on his behalf yesterday, whether that delved too much into the personal life of his former deputy chief of staff bridget kelly. that report mentioned on multiple occasions that kelly was involved in a personal relationship with one of the other key players in this whole saga. governor chris christie's former campaign manager bill stepien. lawyers speculated in that report that maybe bridget kelly's personal life affected the decisions she ultimately made. today a number of unnamed friends of bridget kelly told "the new york times" they believe those allegations in the report were sexist. then this evening, bridget kelly's legal team came out after months of mostly silence on this matter to make the same accusation. her lawyers say, "the report is venomous, gratuitous, inappropriate sexist remarks concerning miss kelly have no place in what is alleged to be a professional and independent report."

that statement from bridget kelly's lawyers suggested if granted immunity by federal prosecutors, she would be ready to talk. joining us now, matt catz, hees been covering governor christie for wnyc news. thank you for being here on what is obviously a pretty significant day in the evolution of this story and this set of investigations. first, your take on this new response from bridget kelly's lawyers. >> it's in line with what we heard yesterday from bill stepien's lawyer. bill stepien is the other person in this relationship that was essentially outed yesterday by this report. this is a relationship that actually reporters in trenton knew about. we had heard these rumors for some time. we just weren't quite sure what the relevance was. i talked to some reporters today and they agree with me that they knew about it but didn't report it because we didn't know why it mattered necessarily in the larger story. this is the point that the lawyers are making. why does this matter? why is it relevant?

bill stepien's lawyer yesterday, the campaign manager, he said he thinks it was brought up and brought up in a very prominent place in the report. it was in the fifth paragraph in this report. he thinks it was brought up as fodder for the tabloids, that it was an effort to distract. that, you know, they'll be paying attention to the salacious stuff and not the other details of the report. sure enough today in the "new york post" this was the lead story. so, you know, the report says, and governor christie said he agreed with the report today and the lawyers who wrote the report say it was meant to show that kelly and stepien were not talking at the time because she had been dumped by him right before she wrote the "time for some traffic problems in ft. lee" e-mail. but, you know, how do they know that, we're not sure. how did they know when exactly the relationship ended if they didn't speak to the two individuals involved? we don't know. >> right. and if they have in their voluminous report those kind of assertions without the evidence, it raises not only how do they

know that, but whether they know that and whether this is a report that is long on allegations presented as facts. you're describing, though, one particular rationale from one set of lawyers. i want to be clear, what bridget kelly's lawyers are saying tonight, not only was it a distraction for tabloids but specifically designed to impugn and isolate her as a potential witness. >> right. and they actually said that and then made the argument that, therefore, she needs immunity and protection so she can give whatever information she has to the feds in exchange for protection from going to prison, herself, for what she did. they've really separated her from stepien in this sense. and this was a way, it seems, of drawing a line between the two. actually, i actually asked the governor today if he would hire stepien again. remember, he got rid of him as his main political adviser. this was the guy who was supposed to run his presidential campaign, we thought.

he's the one in this relationship and i asked the governor today if it's possible that he could be brought back in the fold and maybe work for the governor again. he didn't say no. he said, i'm not entertaining hypotheticals. that was interesting to me because kelly is clearly the one who's being, is shouldering the burden of the blame here and not stepien. >> from your -- >> and that was -- >> let me ask you, matt, from your reporting, though, beyond simply her desire for immunity, do you have any reason to believe that there are other more senior people that she could give up which would be the main reason a u.s. attorney's office would be interested in granting her immunity? >> she wrote an e-mail in august, three weeks before the lanes were closed that said "time for some traffic problems in ft. lee." we don't know what proceeded that. something proceeded that. it was a conversation. it was an e-mail. maybe it came from somebody below her, maybe it came from somebody who's already been implicated. maybe it came from somebody high

up the food chain. we don't know. something proceeded that e-mail and that's the huge -- that is essentially the biggest question here. because that was the smoking gun. so what -- who fired that gun to mix up the allegory here, what prompted that e-mail? we don't know. that's the information that she may have that she could theoretically sell to the feds here. >> and in your reporting today, you mentioned your questions to the governor. what was your take on him in the room? as we reported, he definitely looked on tv different than the last time he held an extensive press conference on this subject. >> it was totally different, and it was the old chris christie that i've been covering for the last three or four years. he was combative. he talked smack against reporters. he didn't like questions that had long preambles which is a pet peeve of his at press conferences. and this is something that in

the last press conference, in the big mea culpa press conference in january where he went on for two hours, he let everything go. he was very calm. he was contrite. he let reporters repeat a question even if they'd already been asked earlier and didn't get mad at him. that's not the chris christie you saw today. you saw the old chris christie. it seemed to me like it was the beginning of the comeback. the attempted comeback or the real comeback, what have you. i mean, he's now going back to who he was and he's going to see what happens. he did this press conference. he fought with reporters. and tomorrow morning he's getting on a plane to vegas where there's a big republican meeting and he's going to go woo some donors. it's going to be as if this never happened. he's going to try the comeback. we'll see where it goes. >> yeah. that is what's striking, especially politically. this is clearly him saying, allow me to introduce myself. yet to a lot of eyes including experienced new jersey reporter like yourself, it does look like the old chris christie in many ways. that may be part of the message he wants to convey.

matt katz from new jersey public radio. thank you for your time, spending time with us on friday night. >> any time. thanks. >> thank you. national elections come down to this. which candidate will best fulfill the needs and aspirations of billionaire casino owners? so what are the aspirations of billionaire casino owners? that's straight ahead. (music) defiance is in our bones. defiance never grows old. citracal maximum. calcium citrate plus d. highly soluble, easily absorbed. gundyes!n group is a go. not just a start up. an upstart. gotta get going. gotta be good. good? good. growth is the goal. how do we do that? i talked to ups. they'll help us out. new technology. smart advice. we focus on the business and they take care of the logistics. ups? good going. we get good. that's great. great. great. great. great. great.

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now an update tonight on a story reported here monday about the jubilant weekend that

same-sex couples had in michigan during the short. lived window where everyone in the state had a right to marry. late friday when the ban was struck down to the end of the day saturday when the republican state attorney general got the stay that he requested. more than 300 gay couples had managed to get hitched including one michigan couple who both got married and filed their joint federal tax return during that window of equal rights last weekend. on wednesday, republican governor rick snyder told all 300-plus couples they may have gotten married in michigan but as far as the state of michigan is concerned, they're not married. this same situation where republican governor is all but unmarrying married same-sex couples happened in utah, you may remember in december when 1,300 couples got married before the equal rights window slammed shut in that state. now, in that case, the federal government weighed in to contradict utah's governor directly announcing even though the state of utah would not recognize their unions, the federal government would. today, attorney general eric

holder, he did it again. issuing a statement saying that all, all of the marriages performed in michigan last saturday will be recognized by the federal government and that those families will be eligible for all the federal benefits that come with being a lawfully wedded couple. lucky for that organized couple with their tax returns. holder also tipped his hat today to the supreme court decision last summer that struck down the federal gay marriage ban calling it a historic step toward equality for all, all american families and explaining his decision today to recognize those 300 same-sex marriages in michigan was part of the doj's steadfast commitment to realizing our country's founding ideals. strong words from the top law enforcement officer in the nation. now, in the meantime, the path to marriage equality in the state still goes through the federal court. as rachel would say, watch this space. salesperson #1: so again, throwing in the $1,000 fuel reward card

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he was not sure about was whether he would get a personal one-on-one with, yes, sheldon adelson, he and his wife poured $92 million into superpacs during the 2012 election. sheldon adelson clocks in at one of the richest people in the world with $38 billion. remember back in 2012 when the press marveled at how republican presidential candidate newt gingrich vowed to stay in the race and insisted he wouldn't leave the field after losing major primaries. maybe he was dogged, really determined to see things through. but it didn't hurt that he had a little financial boost courtesy of mr. adelson and his wife. they poured $15 million into a pro-gingrich superpac called winning our future which mainly went toward advertising, a big assist at a time when the gingrich campaign was very short on cash. by late march, adelson decided he lost faith in that candidate and newt gingrich was at the end of his line. soon after, newt gingrich

dropped out of the race and adelson threw his support behind a romney superpac, restore our future, with twice the amount of money he gave to gingrich. because when you are worth $38 billion, $92 million of those is just pocket change. in fact, that amount would translate to the median u.s. household of a donation of about 95 bucks. which brings us back to this weekend. at least four republican governor, including christie, are heading to las vegas for a four-day-long conference sponsored by a lobbying entity called the republican jewish coalition. this is held at the venetian hotel, of course, owned by sheldon adelson. he'll be in attendance. he's reportedly on the lookout for a more mainstream electable candidate this year. those scheduled to address the coalition include former governor jeb bush, governor scott walker, and governor john kasich of ohio, and, yes, governor chris christie. fresh off a two-day-long tour of television screenings just about everywhere, touting what he says is his exoneration in the bridge scandal courtesy of the lawyers who would help his office

navigate whether a criminal investigation into the office might actually proceed. and today, with regard to that las vegas trip, governor christie told reporters he wasn't sure he'd have the one-on-one meeting with mr. adelson, although las vegas reporter jon ralston then tweeted out a source tells him christie definitely has that very meeting scheduled. mr. adelson is a very rich man and he's a casino man. the thing about men who run casinos is they're accustom to winning, no matter what. so what can sheldon adelson win from a perspective candidate to whom he might generously donate? what matters to him that might involve politics and policy? online gambling. that matters a lot to him. he's not a fan online gambling because he says it hurts casinos and gamblers. why go to a casino if you can gamble from home? he hates online gambling so much he launched a coalition to stop internet gambling which gained some traction in both parties.

senator lindsey graham and congressman jason -- the bill was originally drafted with a lobbyist working for more adelson. and three republican governors have written to lawmakers in recent weeks in support of a similar ban of online gambling. governor bobby jindal of louisiana, governor nikki haley of south carolina and rick perry of texas. this might pose a problem for governor christie if he's trying to impress mr. adelson this weekend because last year the governor legalized internet gambling in his home state of new jersey. but this is what matters to sheldon adelson right now. he might not even pick candidate who wins the election the next time around. he didn't do that in 2012. but he has enough power and clout in one party to influence political fights about federal legislation. so welcome to vegas, governors. sheldon may not always pick the winners in the race, but as a casino man, he knows how to run more than one game at once. he can lose an election here and

there and still win the law that is boost him. in vegas, you already know this, the house always wins. joining us now, lucia graves, staff correspondent for "national journal." thank you for being here. talk to us first about how internet gambling became such a policy priority for so many of these folk. >> well, i think you have to look at sheldon adelson's priorities and he, you know, he's always been staunchly pro-israel but first and foremost a casino mogul and internet gambling is a threat to his brick and mortar business model. if you can gamble online, you might not bother to come to his casino. right now there are two bills before congress that would ban internet gambling and so he's looking for a gop contender to help him get this legislation through and ultimately to help his bottom line. >> right. you've written about this, and what's so interesting, to me, about it, looking at the history of campaign finance regulation, the supreme court has spoken very specifically in the precedent about the appearance of impropriety.

that is to say not only the idea that laws are being bought, but that it's a problem for our democracy if the citizenry thinks there's an appearance of impropriety. this would seem to be exactly an example of that, whether or not you can prove it's a quid pro quo, there's obviously a stampede to go at internet gambling in a way many republican officials simply haven't ever cared about previously. >> yeah, absolutely. i think it's a perfect test case for how big money can influence politics. usually it's much more invisible. when the koch brothers give money, they go through a superpac. sheldon adelson is willing to write a check to candidates he supports which is pretty unprecedented. it's pretty transparent. it was so funny, when i was writing this story, this was something that you can read between the lines and know that is happening, but literally an hour after i had filed my story, i hear that rick perry, you

know, who is running for president, had written a letter to leaders in congress trying to ban internet gambling. just, you know, he just happened to drop that this week. >> right. and that the governor of texas, you know, is possibly lobbying congress over internet regulations. what is the response? what is the pushback to any of this? >> well, i mean, you can see why gop contenders are interested. adelson is the biggest fish in the game. in 2012, he gave $20 million to gingrich's campaign and $100 million overall. so they can't afford to ignore that money. however tacky it looks. >> right. so you don't think there's a much of a consequence for them looking like they're on the take, basically? >> no. i think people don't really care about internet gambling except for sheldon adelson. i think it's really, really important to him. for other politicians, it's just not that big a deal, like

senator lindsey graham who's taken it up in the senate. he's never said a word about internet gambling before. all of a sudden, he's spearheading the bill and sheldon adelson just happened to drop about $15,000 into graham's re-election campaign because he's up this year. so things like that. just no one cares as much as a casino mogul. >> right. right. there's a bit of a mismatch there. lucia graves. you've been reporting on this a lot from the "national journal." thanks for your time tonight. >> thanks for having me. a pause now to consider weekend plans. i don't have any, clearly. i wonder what the russian army has planned. that is an important question. more on the future of that coming up next.

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president obama spent much of this past week in europe going from meetings to summits, to even more meetings with our allies, with g-7 and with a lot of leaders. that's the president's job. even if sometimes it can make even a cerebral commander in chief look down right bored. yesterday was a little different. president went to the vatican to meet with the new pope, pope francis, for the very first time. they talked longer than the planned schedule with a focus on inequality and exchanged gifts. the president gave pope francis a box made of reclaimed wood from one of the oldest catholic cathedrals built in the u.s. he filled it with seeds from the white house garden. one of the first lady's major initiatives. the pope's gift was a

leather-bound copy of his work, "the joy of the gospels" along with medallions that symbolized peace and solidarity. it may sound largely symbolic but it's different than the last pope's heavy handed reading, to condemn stem cell research and abortion. this new pope made broad appeals for peace and freedom for the people of ukraine. a topic that all too quickly came up even before the president left italy for his next stop, saudi arabia. the president sat for an interview where he talked about that elephant in the room. >> what is vladimir putin after? >> well, you know, if you take him at his word -- >> can you? >> well, on this, i think he's been willing to show a deeply held grievance about what he considers to be the loss of the soviet union. he's said that he considers the breakup of soviet union to be tragic.

i think there's a strong sense of russian nationalism and a sense that somehow the west has taken advantage of russia in the past and that he wants to in some fashion, you know, reverse that or make up for that. certainly they're going to have influence because of trade and tradition and language and heritage with ukraine. everybody acknowledges that, but there's a difference between that and sending in troops, and because you're bigger and stronger, taking a piece of the country. >> let's take that point there right to the map. here is the soviet union including russia. the head of the union. as you can see, it's a huge block of land, a huge block of power. the fall of the berlin wall broke that power into pieces. into this map today, after the breakup. while russia asserts specific historic claims to crimea, many believe it's about power today and putin's desire to reassert

power on today's map. putin may not stop at this piece of turf. today we saw the prime minister of moldova, another former piece of that big block, appealing to the european union, the u.s. and russia with a concern that putin may try to annex part of its territory. is moldova next? is eastern ukraine next? is there other actions the u.s. and ukraine can take to make that less likely? there's been political and media speculation about whether putin is more macho than president obama. that united parts of the gop because critiques are easy and worked as a hypothetical complaint before some of the harder choices were on the table. now we're hearing less of that for good reason. the regional tension is escalating well beyond the fan fiction narrative that manly warnings are the antidote to any and all authoritarian threats.

that's probably good for our policymaking process because the u.s. is returning to the most consequential national security question here. is putin a movable actor? is he grabbing a finite amount of land regardless of what we do? is he deciding how much to invade in direct response to the west's action, or inaction? there are a lot of intelligence reports and security council meetings that basically boil back down to that question. it's not like putin wants it to be crystal clear for us. he benefits from strategic ambiguity. today he went on state tv and declared taking crimea proves russia's military prowess, strength, and power as a nation. we've known for some time the russian troops have been amassing on the border of eastern ukraine under the guise of so-called military exercises. we didn't know how many. tonight the "wall street journal" is reporting there are nearly 50,000 russian troops on the border. that sounds like a lot of unilateral offense, not diplomacy. then late today, putin called president obama directly. the white house is telling

reporters the call was about a possible diplomatic resolution. and the president urged the russian leader to pull his troops back from the border to deescalate the crisis and in the tradition of trust but verify, the white house released a summary relaying that, "president obama suggested that russia put a concrete response in writing and the president agreed that kerry and lavrov would need to discuss next steps." they spoke for about an hour. at the end, there was no indication either side was will to give yet, agreeing to let chief diplomats tackle the matter again soon. so what next? here you have russian troops amassing on the border of ukraine. no one wants to meet that with an immediate military option. on the other hand, how many more acts of aggression by russia until things change significantly? how much more until we or the west are concerned enough to make them stop if necessary? joining us, michael mcfaul. former u.s. ak bas dor to russia. now a professor of political science at stanford university.

mr. mcfaul, as always, thank you for joining us. walk us through, first, how to interpret what we're reporting as conflicting messages here coming from putin and the kremlin? >> well, they're conflicting, but i think it's designed to create leverage over a negotiation that he wants. that is to say, he's massed these troops. it's very ominous, very scary to me that those troops are there. but then the phone calls to say, let's negotiate, what he means is let's negotiate about eastern ukraine, about ukrainian federalism. let's negotiate about protections of russians inside ukraine. let's not negotiate about crimea. and so i see this as a classic now that i've taken that part, that's nonnegotiable, let's negotiate about the new terrain on his terms. >> if you put nationalistic ego aside, your view is somewhat positive because it means your off ramps? also, what did you think of the president, your former boss, trying to give some sort of nuance reflection of putin's

historical claims here? >> fundamentally, i don't like it because putin is changing the debate. just remember, just for the last several days and weeks, we were talking about crimea. now he's threatening eastern ukraine and, say, let's have a diplomatic solution to my threat to eastern ukraine. it's a little absurd to me, like, what's the negotiation about? isn't that the sovereign territory of ukraine? why should russia have a say in what happens on the other side of the borders. what happens on the other side so i think it's a typical bullying threat to change the subject to say crimea, you need to accept that. it's time for you to negotiate on my terms. >> on that point, it's well put or somewhat ominous or at least concerning, though. does that give credence to what we might call the rational actor or neoconservative critique or concern that he is testing and because he hasn't been met strong enough, he will continue

to test and try to take more? >> i think that's right. he can test. it's very cost-free. right? if he doesn't do anything. of course, moving into eastern ukraine with russian troops is a very costly act. much more costly than going into crimea. first and foremost, the russians live in big cities. i think there will be conflict and fighting. warfare. second to his credit, i believe my boss, president obama has sanctions against russian enterprises and businesses if there's further escalation of violence. they are things putin had to think about, not things he thought about when moving into

crimea. >> walk us through the narrow statement we are getting from the white house that there would be diplomatic discussions proceeding out of today's phone call. >> i think it's, you know, it's better to negotiate than not, have the channel of communications. i admire the president for talking to putin directly. after all, he's the main decision maker. from afar, not knowing the details of what's proposed, i'm perplexed of what is the so-called diplomatic solution we are tauging about. if it doesn't include the withdrawal of russian troops from crimea, i don't like the terms we are setting up. it seems all the leverage is in putin's side, not our side. >> understand. thank you very much for helps us make sense of it. it is getting to the point, if your state hasn't had an oil still, that is news in and of

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the grand staircase monument is gorgeous and vast. it dominated southern utah and remains undisturbed. the natural wonders remain unexplored as when mapped by a teenage explorer in 1872 who discovered the last unknown river and mountain rang in the u.s. states. people continue to make discoveries on the land. saturday, a few hikers made a discovery of their own exploring the area adjacent to it. they found a jet black substance coating the walls. like any good explorer or tourist, they snapped pics. it reveal as four-mile run oil slick. it probably came from the oil

field west of the river. the citation oil and gas corporation ran an oil field there. they were cited for a broken pipe. we talked to state officials about this. there is a spill and it's old, very old. it could date back to 1971. they belief it wasn't noticed for decades. recent flooding brought the oil back to the surface. they are figuring out how to do overdue clean up in the area. that is utah. the tour continues in indiana. workers in a local tar refinery reported an oily sheen in lake michigan next to the plant. bp confirmed crude oil was released from there dumping oil directly into the great lake. everyone in chicago knows it's not only important for lake michigan to be nice to look at,

but important to remain clean enough to drink. it is the source of drinking water for 7 million people there. that half mile spill was eight miles from the water intake. according to initial estimates, 500 gallons of crude oil was spilled. bp had to more than double that estimate saying they spilled upwards of 1600 gallons of oil into the main source of drinking water for the third most populous city in the country. it is big news even though it's not gotten much natural coverage. we continue in ohio. >> these are the first images of the oil spill taken by the epa. those who live near the nature preserve could smell it for days before they saw it. >> it was quite strong this morning. and helicopters start flies over, you know, continually around and around and around. >> first responders tracked the smell and discovered 10,000 gallons of crude oil leaking in the wetlands of the oakland

nature preserve. the spill came from a 20-inch ruptured pipeline, running from texas to michigan. >> that leak was spotted just half an hour outside of cincinnati on monday. at about 8:00 p.m. when a local resident was just driving nearby and then smelled what he described as a fuel oily smell. so he got out of his car, spotted oil coating on the marsh there, called 911 and then told the dispatcher,itis absolutely terrible. it made me sick when i saw it. pollution can be very sickening. thousands of gallons of crude spilled just 500 feet from the great miami river which serves as a source of drinking water, again a theme here, for a huge swath of the state, including dayton and cincinnati. this week, the epa said the clean-up will be tricky. they're trying to vacuum up as much of the oil as possible and removing what is often known as a soup that gathers around the spill. from these photos you can see here released by the epa of the

clean-up, you can sort of see it. they're mopping up the oil with something that's sort of like an industrial paper towel. so here we have a spill that they originally said was 10,000 gallons. the amount of oil that drained into the protected wet lands had to be adjusted. up. way up. doubling their estimate, not 10, but 20,000 gallons had leaked into the nature preserve's marsh. this makes the third spill in this area coming from a 1,000-mile pipeline owned by sunoco stretching the length from texas to michigan. while news about these spills in utah and lake michigan and ohio were limited for now to the pages of local papers, they're becoming sort of a daily occurrence. and one day it's nearly 200,000 gallons all becoming just par for the course.

the increasingly petroleum fouled course. that does it for us tonight. rachel will be back on monday. if you want to find me, you can find me on twitter at ari melber. up next, weekends with alex witt. rattling nerves. a series of after shocks on the west coast after the second quake in the l.a. area in as many weeks. we have a live report next. a new search area. have the latest efforts turned up anything in the plane mystery? is a potential breakthrough on the horizon? the strong words from bridgette ann kelly after the christie administration report. what would you do? the tale of a teenager who suddenly discovered tens of thousands of dollars in his bank account. what did he do?