for everyone. there's not one way to do something. no details too small. american express open forum. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. a key eyewitness from the christie administration's internal investigation tells his full story here for the first time. we have two important developments to break here this morning. some major news in the ongoing chris christie scandal. in just a minute we'll be joined by someone who plays a key role in the report that was issued last thursday by a law firm chosen by the governor's office to conduct an internal investigation into the bridgegate scandal. but before we do that, some necessary background on the other scanndal that was part of that report, the one that has

nothing to do with the the george washington bridge, the one no one mentioned in chris christie's 64-minute press conference on friday. it's about the allegations made on this show at this table two months ago by the mayor of hoboken. >> the lieutenant governor came to hoboken. she pulled me aside in the parking lot, and she said i know it's not right. i nknow this thing should not b connected but they are. and if you tell anyone, i'll deny it the. the bottom like is it's not fair for the governor to hold sandy funds hostage for the city of hoboken because he wants me to give back to one private developer. >> that was dawn zimmer, hoboken's mayor, claiming on this program back in january that new jersey lieutenant governor kim guadagno had explicitly linked her city's level of sandy aid to her willings this to move forward on a major development project represented by the law firm of david samson, close christie can confidant. guadagno wasn't the only

high-ranking christie administration official zimmer says delivered that message to her. she told us back in january richard constable who serves as commissioner of the department of community affairs, that he also suggested to her at a public event several days after that encounter with guadagno there was a linkage between her city's sandy funds and approval of the development project to her. now those allegations caused quite a stir. zimmer met with and turned over documents to shortly after her appearance here. the attorney's office interviewed others who might have information relevant to the mayor's accusations. neither christie nor reporters in his press conference friday brought any of this up. the hoboken allegations received plenty of attention in the internal investigation that christie commissioned and that purported to exonerate him in the report issued last thursday. that report paid for by new jersey taxpayers and conducted

by a law firm simultaneously working with governor christie's office to cooperate with the ongoing federal investigations, that report attacks zimmer hard, challenging her claims, her credibility, and even her state of mind. here is how randy mastro characterized it thursday. >> we find that mayor zimmer's allegations, that members of the christie administration delivered a message from the governor to her threatening hoboken's sandy aid unless she supported a private development project are not only unsubstantiated, they are false in material respects. mayor zimmer's subjective perceptions do not match the objective reality reflected in the hard evidence that we uncovered during our investigation.

in fact, they are contradicted by contemporaneous documents, witness accounts, and her own prior statements. >> mayor zimmer responded in this thursday, randy mastro could have written his report the day he was hired and save the taxpayers the million dollars in fees he billed in generating this one-sided white wash of serious misconduct by the christie administration. mastro's conclusion that there was nothing to the threat that was made to me that hoboken would not get the sandy relief mopey it needs and deserves unless i supported the rockefeller project. this reinforces the soundness of the decision i made not to cooperate with mr. mastro's so-called investigation t.o. do so would only lend credibility

to an effort that unfortunately for the taxpayers of new jersey has no credibility, no legitimacy whatsoever. he state that had none of the interviews conducted under oath -- i remain ready and willing to testify under oath as part of any legitimate investigation. the report the mas ittro issued offers a vigorous defense of guadagno, lieutenant governor, and constable. we'll get to guadagno in a bit. right now the part about constable. zimmer's accusations stem from an event she and constable attended last may, may 16, to be exact. the live telehe vision broadcast from monmouth university. a group of government officials and public figures discussed the sandy recovery effort. this was just days after zimmer and guadagno had their encounter in hoboken. guadagno, according to zimmer, told her she needed to push forward a stalled development

project in the city's north end planned by the rockefeller group, the firm represented at the time by port authority chairman david samson's law firm. and that only by doing this would she, dawn zimmer, sech the level of sandy aid she was requesting from the state. zimmer claims that encounter with guadagno took place may 13. then, three days later, she was seated next to constable at the televised town hall event. in a tiery entry she shared with us, zimmer said that she and constable then on that stage had an exchange with about the rockefeller project. quote, from her diary, we are mic'd up with other panelists and probably the sound team is li listening. i hear you are against the rockefeller project. i am not against it. i want more commercial development in hoboken. oh, really? everyone in the state house believes you are against it. the buzz is that you are against it. if you move that forward, are the money would start flowing to you, he tells me. now the statement provided to us on friday, richard constable says, quote, gibson tunn's

exhaustive and detailed report completely undercuts mayor z zimmer's wild-eyed conspiracy theory be a ever changing story details. over the course after few days she added new and false details and casually threw in new names and innocent people to add weight to her claim. it is unfortunate msnbc failed to do any independent research or exercise a modicum of skepticism prior to airing some reckless allegations against me. had they done that, they would have reached the same conclusions as the gibson dunn report that mayor zimmer's story was unreliable and fictional. there was no evidence i met with mayor zimmer about the rockefeller project, met with representatives of the group about the project or in any way promoted the project. aside from my current role as commissioner, my longest period of employment was as a federal prosecutor. it speaks volume that is none of

the other 564 mayors in new jersey have lodged extortion allegations against me. mayor zimmer's unsubstantiated claims stand alone. that is richard constable's full statement to us from fry day. we have, we should note, though, done and will continue to do independent research on this story and we have approached our reporting with are more than a modicum of skepticism. that reporting has led us to this discovery. the key component constable portion of the report. independent eyewitness who was also on stage that night at monmouth university, that independent eyewitness, that's what the report calls him, matt dougherty. he's the mayor of belmar, new jersey. he is a defensemmocrat. the report relies on him heavily. here is the heading from that section of the report. quote, an independent eyewitness contradicts mayor zimmer's account. you can see constable and zimmer next to each other in the front

row. that's matt doherty in the seat to the left. they state as fact that, quote, mayor doherty heard the conversation between mayor zimmer and commissioner constable and was with them on stage both before the start of the show and throughout the broadcast. the report states that doherty was well positioned to hear the conversation between mayor zimmer and commissioner constable. he was at the end of the first row and, therefore, not speaking with anyone else when mayor zimmer spoke with commissioner constable. the report says matt doherty heard what they said to each other and then, quote, matt doherty said he never heard commission commissioner constable say anything to mayor zimmer in words or substance along the lines of mayor zimmer's allegations and continues he did not hear commissioner constable say anything about quid pro quos or make any threats to anyone. he observed mayor zimmer may have been associating the subjects in her own mind but that is not what constable said. on that basis the report goes on

to point out, as we said, that doherty is a democrat and simply appears to be telling the truth as he recalls it. so there. that is the role matt doherty plays in this report. this is a story from the "asbury park press." asked in the article about the monmouth event and the paper reported this. belmar mayor matt doherty, a panelist, said he didn't hear a conversation between zimmer and constable. that is not at all what the christie report claims. they say his eyewitness account undermines the accusation. doherty also says that he sat next to mayor zimmer and that if i recall correctly constable was on my other side. that's his quote. actually, as we showed you earlier, he was not sitting between them, far off to

zimmer's left and yet the christie report trumpets doherty as the tiebreaker between zimmer and constable. in an independent eyewitness, we heard what they said and can conclusively ex on rate constable. it should be noted the story says that doherty didn't hear the conversation is not mentioned anywhere in the christie report. so it the pivotal eyewitness hear the conversation or didn't he? well, when we come back, the mayor of belmar, new jersey, the man identified as a key eyewitness, will tell us. did he hear what was said between zimmer and constable or didn't he that's next. let's share the news tomorrow. today we failrly busy. tomorrow we're booked solid. we close on the house tomorrow. i want one of these opened up. because tomorow we go live... it's a day full of promise. and often, that day arrives by train. big day today? even bigger one tomorrow. when csx trains move forward, so does the rest of the economy. csx. how tomorrow moves.

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all right. you just heard about the internal review conducted by the law firm hired by governor chris christie's administration and the story of a person that report tabs as one of the key independent witnesses. witnessed the moment hoboken mayor dawn zimmer says the

department of community affairs commissioner constable suggested to her sandy relief money would start flowing if she moved a development project forward. it says mayor matt doherty of belmar heard the conversation and that no such warning was deliver delivered. here with us for the first time since the report was released, belmar mayor matt doherty. thank you for being here. >> a pleasure to be here. >> two things at odds. there is this report in your local newspaper "the asbury park press" when you said you didn't hear the conversation. and then we have this report that mastro's law firm released thursday that calls you an independent witness who undermines dawn zimmer's credibility because you did hear the conversation. let's start with the basic we. they were on stage. they were talking. we know that. you were sitting to her left. did did you or did you not hear the conversation? >> let me explain "the asbury park press" article. the day this story broke on your show i missed it. i was down in washington, d.c.

>> how dare you miss our show. >> at an event of mine inducted into the georgetown hall of fame. i got calls from reporters, numerous ones, about this. at the time i wanted to give them something. i was there. i've been to numerous meetings and seminars and panel discussions about sandy, whether in belmar, trenton, new york, and even in mississippi always talking about sandy and sandy recovery. to me this was one of the many things i've gone to. so at the time, yeah, i remember being there. i remember talking with each one of them, but i don't remember hearing any conversation between the two of them. >> okay. now this report is -- i mean, this report is saying conclusively, mayor doherty heard the conversation between mayor zimmer and commissioner constable. he was with them on stage both before the start of the show. this sort of exoneration is relying on you as an independent witne

witness. so did you hear it? >> when i got back from d.c., and i realized the gravity of the situation, i went back to njtv that had it at the time, watched the whole thing and i was able to recognize that i did hear the conversation and it brought me right back to that night. i remember a lot more details when i it did watch the video. and i did hear their conversation. it was a conversation that i had with commissioner constable, also, and other mayors, about hazard mitigation. we had a hazard mitigation we wanted to move forward with and get funded. mayor dawn zimmerman, an outstanding mayor, was advocating for her town as well. the type of project she was talking about was different than ours. >> she was talking to him about a hazard mitigation project? >> in our town you can elevate homes n. a city like hoboken, you can't elevate homes. she was talking about this

barri barrier. >> okay. that's a dispute between the nature of hoboken, and at the heart of how sandy funds will be discontributed. you are saying you heard the entire conversation between dawn zimmer and richard constable? >> i heard them talking about the hazard mitigation. when you're a mayor, you do most of the talking and he does most of the listening. >> did you hear the whole conversation or not? >> i heard their conversation? >> the entire conversation? was there more to the conversation you didn't hear? >> all i can talk about is what i can did hear. >> the conversation -- okay, again, the report is stating that mayor doherty heard the conversation. the report is relying on you as an independent eyewitness. you heard the conversation and can conclusively say that this did not come up. can you conclusively say that this did not come up or are there parts that you it not hear? >> there may have been parts of the conversation i did not hear. what i did hear was about hazard mitigation, and i never heard commissioner constable in any way issue a threat or quid pro

quo. had i heard that, it would have stood out substantially. a town like us, we are also competing for those dollars. if i newspaper the way to get the money was somehow to do with a development project, well, a town like us would be cut out because we don't have big development. >> i understand. that would land on anybody's radar. i can understand that. again, i'm trying to establish here, you said you heard a portion of the conversation about hazard mitigation. do you know that there was a conversation taking place that you could not hear? were there words exchanged between them you could not hear? >> i don't think so, no. and those words would have really stood out. >> so the only thing you heard was her talking about hazard mitigation. >> i heard her expressing views on it. the again, she does a great job advocate i advocating for her job like other mayors to and him listening to it and trying to direct where to go just like when i talked to him prior up on

stage about hazard mitigation and explaining to me here is how the money is supposed to come in. at the end of the day hazard mitigation is through another entity altogether. >> so you believe that you did not hear mayor zimmer say any of this, anything that she alleges took place. you believe you heard the entire conversation, and you believe then that she was fabricating this? >> i don't believe she is fab i fabricating anything. i did not hear commissioner constable in any way, shape or form, threaten mayor zimmerman. absolutely not. >> right. and you are confident you heard the conversation. >> i'm confident. >> so she is making this up? >> did i hear every word of the conversation? could he have whispered it? i guess. but i'm just telling you, they weren't whispering, they were talking like you and i are talking. >> so you told the newspaper that you didn't hear it? >> when i was initial ly

contacted that day, i wanted to get back to the reporters as with quickly as possible and some of them just called me on the phone. yeah, i was there and remember talking with each of them but i didn't remember any conversation between the two of them. i went back days later and realized the graphty of the situation and i watched the video. i said, you know, i do recognize that i did hear their conversation. >> so why didn't you come forward, realizing the gravity of the situation, why didn't you come forward? hey, i said something that's inaccurate? >> well, i did tell the investigato investigators. i at any time want to come forward after it was in the paper and undermine the mayor of hoboken. again, dawn stzimmer does an outstanding job as mayor, she is a fellow democrat like i am. why would i want to undercut her publicly? >> so the report -- you have no problem with the tone of this report takes and the conclusion that it reaches that based on your account, your sole account, you can say dawn zimmer did not say this to richard constable?

>> i can say richard constable did not say this to dawn zimmer. >> the conversation that she recounts, the exchange between the two of them, did not take place? >> i don't know if she talked about -- if she expressed that she talked about hazard mitigation. they talked about hazard mitigation in relation to hoboken. >> since this is so absolute here and we've had two different statement to you bs one to christie's investigative team and one to "the asbury park press" and nothing in between, i want to make sure what you told these investigators was, no, you heard the entire conversation. >> their question to me was, matt, in the conversation you heard between mayor zimmer and commissioner constable, at any time did he use the words the money will start flowing, that we need to you do this project? did you feel he threatened her at any point or there's any quid pro quo between sandy aid and her hometown over the development project? absolutely not.

>> you seem to be leaving a little wiggle room. you are confident you heard the entire conversation or you may not heard part it have? >> i guess there's a possibility anytime you may not hear the entire conversation but what i did hear was about hazard mitigation. him listening, explaining the same thing he said to me earlier that night how the money is suppose supposed to come in, how it comes in through hud, how it's different than fema. a whole host of things he said to me he was talking to her about. so that's why it was nothing striking. it was nothing memorable. until i actually went back and looked at the video and recognized that i did hear that conversation. >> you observed to investigators that mayor zimmer may have misassociated the subject in her own mind. suggesting that she -- that's

what you told investigators. >> they said, do you think she's lying? i said i don't believe she's lying. i think she felt threatened. absolutely. dawn zimmer is not a liar. dawn zimmer is an outstanding mayor -- >> you heard nothing about a quid pro quo, nothing was threatening, nothing in the exchange that seemed hostile or anything, but you believe she felt threatened? >> yeah. i take dawn zimmer for her word. when i was there -- >> but she's making up what constable said? >> i'm just saying i never heard what she alleges richard constable said. >> you never heard it and you heard the entire conversation? >> and i heard their conversation. >> the entire conversation? >> their conversation about hazard mitigation. if somehow there was something else that they were whispering, but they weren't, maybe i didn't hear part of it. for what they were talking ab t about, no, there was no quid from quo, there were no threats and it would completely be out of carriharacter with the richa

constable i know since working on sandy. again, it would have stood out. it would have been very memorable if someone was threatened over sandy. >> one more question because we initially were looking at this and we saw this and we thought to reach out to richard constable's office. he's in christie's cabinet. we got that statement which we aired and then we invited him, of course, to appear on the show. he declined and then his office told us that you were interested in appearing on the show and asked if we were interested in talking to you. we were and here you are. it does occur to me, is there a reason why richard constable's office would have referred us to you? they said you already expressed interest to them to appear on the show. >> i was in contact with commissioner constable. he called me and said he had been invited on the show. he didn't think he was going to make it but would issue a statement and said if i don't go, would you be interested in going on steve kornacki's show? and i said, sure. >> okay. we appreciate you coming on.

matt doherty, mayor of belmar. when we come back, some breaking news to report in the federal investigation into hoboken mayor dawn zimmer's allegations. more news on that. worried shampooing might damdon't be.hair? new pantene brings

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we have more breaking news to bring to you exclusively this morning, the federal investigation into dawn zimmer's allegations is expanding. we've learned this weekend in addition has been made to the agenda for the hoboken city council's upcoming meeting this wednesday. it is an item that could bolster mayor dawn zimmer's claim new jersey lieutenant governor kim guadagno threatened to withhold sandy aid. if you go on hoboken's mun icipl website like we did at 5:30 last night a resolution has been posted to give the mayor authority to waive attorney/client privilege with a man named joseph maraziti. when we contacted the mayor's

office about this, we received this statement last night from z zimmer's communications director, quote, the city wants to ensure joe maraziti, special redevelopment counsel for hoboken, is able to fully cooperate with the u.s. attorney's investigation so that he can respond to the document subpoena he recently received and so he can answer all questions when interviewed. joe mazarziti was a person who told the mayor he was getting the full-court press from david samson's law firm, wolff & samson. governor chris christie announced the regulars at his news conference. what we are most interested in this resolution could uncover is that mayor zimmer told joe

marazi it maraziti, that she talked about the conversation on the day it happened, may 13, 2013. what he has to say about that could prove pivotal. we have new jersey state republic wran leader, the metro editor with wnyc radio, a candidate for the democratic nomination for congress in new jers jersey. the trenton area district in new jersey. welcome to you. we have that news out of hoboken. i'm curious, andrea, the first segment we had with matt doherty there, this is somebody the report leans on heavily to say dawn zimmer is completely making this up and he said to the newspaper before hadn't heard the conversation, now saying something different to us. i wonder what you made of what he had to say. >> well, i think there's still so many questions. there are so many questions about the report.

but what it chooses to hone in on and what it chooses not to hone in on. the two people that were in an e-mail, david samson and lori grifa did not speak to the mastro team. no one from wolff/samson spoke. there are so many questions we do not have. nobody in the mastro report is under oath. mayor dawn zimmer, i think, on your show said she would speak under oath. there are so many questions, and there's something in the report when they want there to be. they spoke to the person sitting next to mayor zimmer at that event. what we don't know, for example, did they speak to anybody who was standing next to governor chris christie when david wildstein says he told him about the bridgegate event. so there's sort of an inconsi inconsistency in the way the investigators approach their investigation so that in some cases we know lots of facts and in some cases we don't know all the facts. >> and in fairness, i think we

have this up on the screen talking with about the encounter that we just talked about with mayor doherty and mayor zimmer. a picture of her yawning at some point during that -- do we have that? they're putting it up. they devote a full page and say a person does not normally yawn when being threatened, coerced or spoken to improperly. so that's -- >> it's interesting because we were speaking about this on the show friday and a sipsychologis spoke and said, in fact, yawning is a common psych lological reaction to a threat as is smiling. so it's unclear what evidence they're basing on a person doesn't normally yawn. i don't know what a person who has been threatened, what physical mannerisms that they would be expressing, with but that information on which they're basing that conclusion isn't there. >> you just had a democratic mayor contradict the dawn zimmer

allegation, clear and convinc g convincingly he sat here and said i did not hear -- >> he also contradicted himself. >> well, he may be. the bottom line is that's an important part when you have a democratic mayor supporting a republican governor here on national television. my main concern is this, in today's politics when you have an allegation by one person and it takes hours and hours and weeks of programming and publicity, that's disconcerting to all elected officials. at this point in time you have a democratic chairman, a former chairman of the democratic party in new jersey doing an investigation. the governor has this report which has hundreds of thousands of documents that have been looked at as thousands of e-mails, not one defensemmonstr that he had any knowledge about whether these lanes -- >> you don't think this is the definitive authoritative report, do you? >> the answer to that question

is what are they covering up? if there was an e-mail there that somehow someone told the governor in advance or some communication, randy masses troe would have found that. the question -- >> i'm not necessarily saying cover-up. as andrea is saying, it's incomplete. they did the not talk to dawn zimmer. they talked to so many players in this. >> they admit there are certain players who have not spoken to him. >> these are principal mrarts. >> there's not one e-mail despite hundreds of thousands of documents, they found nothing. that's disregarded. >> without talking to bridget kelly, to david wildstein, bill baroni, dawn zimmer, without talking to anybody. >> the democratic committee led by with wisniewski indicated early on things like, well, the governor knew more than he's saying. there was all of these allegations. the fact randy mastro is con

st contradicting is important in terms of balance. that's what we're looking for is balance. >> start with what we just heard in the first block there from matt doherty, the mayor of belm belmar. we have him in january saying, didn't hear it. does not correct the record until apparently he spoke with chris christie's investigative team and then comes on the show and it seemed he was leaving a little wiggle room and i was trying to be as precise as i could and i will have to go back and look at the tape there but he seems to be saying emphatically, forget what i said in january. this didn't happen. i heard it all. >> what did you make of it? >> what i heard did not include the allegation of being threatened. that's all i heard. i heard, also, maybe i didn't hear everything. but what i heard didn't real areally resonate as anything important and i actually forgot it in the first place.

but i think that we're missing the point here. here is the point, this report is just white washing everything that supposedly has taken place. this report isn't worth the paper it is written on and it is inconceivable to me that an attorney of that stature would associate himself or his firm with such a lousy piece of work there. but while we're paying attention to this, we're forgetting that new jersey's got the highest foreclosure rate in the state of assemblymen, lost 3,700 jobs last february. and we're forgetting that new jersey still lags behind in economic development and still we just kind of interesting, you see how they tweeted bridgette kel ly in such a sexist and dismissive way, emotional woman, and that's consistent with where this administration has been. >> let's keep it on point here.

you talk about bridget kelly. we talked about it on the show yesterday. a lot of controversy about how the report portrayed bridget kelly. there's also how mayor zimmer is portrayed and part of that is what you read about mayor doherty. let's pick that up. we have to squeeze a break in here. a little bit more on what mayor doherty said and the subpoena in hoboken. [ male announcer ] if you're taking multiple medications, does your mouth often feel dry? a dry mouth can be a side effect of many medications

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i can't believe your mom has a mom cave! today i have new campbell's chunky spicy chicken quesadilla soup. she gives me chunky before every game. i'm very souperstitious. haha, that's a good one! haha! [ male announcer ] campbell's chunky soup. it fills you up right. so we were just start iing talk with about something the assemblywoman brought up, how bridget kelly was portrayed. it came up in the interview with mayor doherty a little bit. he told investigators he was speculating that she might have -- a little bit about her -- this might have gotten mixed up in her mind somehow. this is the common theme in the report, certain people tried to get in their minds. mind speculation going on there. >> i think what's interesting is

at the beginning of the hoboken report, which is lengthy, there's a description of all of the characters starting with mayor zimmer and it notes things she taught english in japan, all of the other people that she alleges involved in the conspiracy, were former federal prosecutors, as if somehow what the former federal prosecutors always say is necessarily truthful. it doesn't say things about mayor zimmer, she was appointed to a president's panel on climate change. the only elected official from our region on that panel, that she is nationally recognized in the area of climate change, which is what we're talking about here. we're talking about preparing hoboken to survive future storms. so i think there's a lot of this, and as the assemblywoman was mentioning, the same thing with bridget kelly, that she was emotional. there are references to the fact she was not perhaps as prepared for her job as bill stepien was.

there are seeds of doubt. praurts have looked it at this report and says it reads like a defense brief. it's not that necessarily it would be factual or nonfactual but is selective in the information it presents to us. >> let's talk about where -- we are looking at the constable portion, richard constable, the commissioner speaking with dawn zimmerman. that's one of the allegations she's made. the other allegation is about kim guadagno in that parking lot encounter may 13, 2013, when guadagno pulled her aside, look, you have to aproven the rockefeller deal david samson represented development project or you're not getting your sandy money. the news we're breaking this morning, joe maraziti, a redevelopment attorney, has been subpoenaed by the u.s. attorney's office and there is now a resolution pending -- this was posted online. we saw it yesterday. it's pending for wednesday that

will waive attorney-client privilege, allow them to speak freely with investigators and then dawn zimmer's spokesman told us joe maraziti had a conversation with mayor zimmer on the day of her encounter with kim guadagno about what happened. so that's somebody else potentially who can step forward and maybe add some context. >> but why are we here? we're here because chris christie was one of the most popular national figures, incredibly successful in new jersey. property taxes had the lowest rise -- >> i don't -- we can have the next gubernatorial debate another time. >> an allegation dismissed by a democratic mayor. so now the u.s. attorney's investigating and he should do the investigation, but this one allegation from one mayor in my judgment has been expanded incredibly because of the need to know more about this chris christie, this real popular

republ republican governor from new jersey. it would have never -- if they made an allegation against you and you sat there day after day listening to allegations and you were really caught up in the anti- -- and it's an anti-christie fever that exists out there because he's so incredibly direct and successful. >> how many people sat there day after day when chris christie was u.s. you attorney reading a newspaper about all the things they were alleged to do wrong or leaked by his office? that was pretty common from chris christie as u.s. attorney. >> i don't know anything about leaks. >> do you know what this report reminds me of? of an individual who is being indicted by chris christie who then went out and hired his friend to investigate the situation, investigate, and found that the individual indicted was completely exx exonerated and everybody else was wrong and he, therefore, put forth his findings and that's the end of it. that's what this is. this report is nothing but an

unnecessary distraction a nothing but a defense brief. nothing but 300 pages -- >> do you believe randy mastro would cover up things he found -- >> mr. assemblyman -- >> he never found anything. >> you can't interview all -- >> did the governor know? once we find out, which i think everyone agrees he it did know, now they'll move to another allegation, and let's talk about the allegation that he was in a helicopter circling the bridge. >> that was verifiable information that the governor knew something before he said he knew something. how about that? we'll talk about questions of credibili credibility. there are serious questions when the governor knew whether or not it was before, during, or whenever he said he did. he's creeping along, learning a little bit more, a little

earlier time, and more than one person says he knew something and he says, well, you know what? i really might not have paid any attention to that. after all, i was in newark at 9:11 when people couldn't get into newark because the bridge was all backed up. it's ridiculous. totally ridiculous. >> something about lanes being closed, et cetera, why would that be an important issue to you unless you -- >> okay, but this is exactly -- hold on. hold on one second. this is exactly the point and what bothers me about the report because the report just states as a fact without the attribution that this would not have registered on chris christie's radar if david wildstein said this to him. i'm going to be satisfied if i hear from david wildstein, when i hear from bill baroni. we were sitting at this table yesterday. brian thompson, a report er for wnbc, showed a number of photographs showing chris christie walking around 9/11

site with all of these people and then we have a reporter in "the new york times" yesterday that they spent a long time in this air-conditioned place sequestered from everyone else. we don't know what conversations took place. it is entirely possible chris christie had nothing to do with it. >> some general fairness and objectivity when you're looking at allegations because any of us, any of us, if we were subject to allegations, constant media attention with no corroboration on many of these things, you just want fairness. >> when you put out a report like this, we have to squeeze a break in here. we have to squeeze a break in here. we will get you in after this. andrea in after this. and i do want to get back to this news out of hoboken because it's not just about chris christie. i think this news out of hoboken may suggest something about another major figure, david samson. i know you've been reporting on that. >> well, there's a connection to

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i said i wanted to talk about this news, joe maraziti, being subpoenaed by the u.s. attorney's office. andrea, we can talk about the idea we're being told he talks to mayor zimmer but all these e-mails from wolf & samson law firm. he's a central player in the whole david samson part. >> david samson was a sevcentra player in both bridgegate and hoboken and he was not interviewed or acknowledged about 150 pages. the fact he would accept that he would speak to him is troubling to people who want to know everything that happened here. david samson resigned from the port authority. governor christie exonerated him. there are many questions i would like to ask david samson and i'm

sure investigators would, too, and the fact we haven't heard from him yet leaves a very big block of information both with respect to hoboken and what he said to mr. maraziti and the bridgegate figures whom he spoke with all the time. >> right. what we showed -- we have mayor zimmer in the e-mails provided was that wolff & samson was pressuring to get a meeting with david samson in his capacity as chairman. >> understood him to be the chair of the port authority. why would the port authority be on the part of a client. >> if you're under investigation by the u.s. attorney, you should use your fifth amendment rights, period. you want to give one statement to the u.s. attorney when subpoenaed through your attorney. any other procedure is a big mistake, as an attorney. >> that's funny because the report says we should draw judgments about stepien and about bridget kelly because they

invoked their fifth amendment righ rights. >> i don't know if samson did that, in my judgment, if i was his lawyer, and he has a great lawyer in chertoff, you give your statement one time. no matter how smart you are or honest you are, what happened to matt toert today. it can be interpret ed the wron way. >> it is what it is. it's an administration that's embroiled in so many scandals it's paralyzed government. it has ignored the needs of working class and middle class families. this is a white wash and this is a subterfuge and they would rather spin a problem than solve a problem. what does an apron have to do with car insurance? an apron is hard work. an apron is pride in what you do. an apron is not quitting until you've made something

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back to what we had at the top of the show. i would like to thank matt doherty for coming on. he says he is confident he heard the conversation between hoboken mayor dawn zimmer and richard

constable. he says they could have whispered some of it. i want to thank bonnie watson coleman, andrea bernstein, thank you all for joining us. very lively discussion. aflac. ♪ aflac, aflac, aflac! ♪ [ both sigh ] ♪ ugh! ♪ you told me he was good, dude. yeah he stinks at golf.

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defiance is in our bones. defiance never grows old. citracal maximum. calcium citrate plus d. highly soluble, easily absorbed. right now hillary clinton is in a better position than any potential candidate possibly ever, and that's not really hyperbole. look at current polling, more than 50 points ahead of her closest potential rival, vice president joe biden, well, she was so far ahead of the field at this point in 2008 cycle and then barack obama happened. but in 2006 at this point she was only leading him by about 20 points not 50. he wasn't sitting vice president either. hillary clinton self identifies as a wife, mom, advocate, former first lady, author, dog owner, hair icon, and glass ceiling

cracker. for hillary clinton things are looking pretty good right now. breaking through that glass ceiling hasn't been easy because of the resistance she has met along the way including from this man, meet david brock. this week david brock describes himself as part of what hillary clinton once called the vast right-wing conspiracy. he says she was correct about that. that there was a coordinated effort to bring down the ly clintons. people who would stop at nothing to keep bill and hillary from succeeding in the 1990s. >> at its root i realized clinton hating had nothing to do with what the clinton did or did not do. it had everything to do with fear of the kind of change they represented on the one hand and on the other a newly brutal form of partisan power politic. there used to be a respected intellectual movement in the can country that contributed to a healthy discourse. that movement has been gutted by assorted billionaires and shock jocks who realize they could use

fear and sensationalism to undermine honest debate and buttress their own bottom lines. >> david brock made those remarks in little rock at the university of arkansas. more specifically at the clinton school of public service at the university of arkansas. if it isn't already clear, david brock is no longer a lyclinton hater. he is the exact opposite. brock has found add pro-hillary super pac necessary balk in 2016 people are out to bring downhill hill once again. >> of course there is no clinton candidacy or campaign and there may never be one. no fewer than eight have set up shop to tarnish hillary clinton's record and reputation before she even has a chance to make her own case if that's what she chooses to do. >> and here now to talk about how he went from there to here is david brock himself, former conservative muckraker turned founder of the progressive watchdog group media matters, chairman and founder of the l liberal super pac american

bridge. david, welcome to the show. thank you for being here. look, i know you've written a book with about this a couple of years ago but it is still, when i hear you speaking like that, it is still astounding to me someone who came of age politically in the 1990s to square who you were and what you represented back then with what you are and what you are doing today. and for people who maybe don't remember it quite well enough, can you take us back to 1993 and 1994 and what it was you were doing and what it was the conservative movement was doing when bill clinton first became president? >> yeah, sure. in fact, as soon as he became president there was an effort in the conservative movement that i was a part of to try to overturn the result of the election essentially, something called the arkansas project at a magazine that i worked at, the american spectator, a conservative magazine. this was a dirt digging operation to go back into the clintons' past, find anything that could be found but also critically to make things up and to pay people to lie about the clintons, and i was involved in that. the story i wrote was dubbed trooper gate. it was one of the first clinton

scandals. in my experience that story fell apart after i publish ed it and this was part of my own evolution of understanding that the conservatives would say and do anything to stop the clintons and this is, again, people talking about impeaching and throwing bill clinton out of office five years before anyone hears the term monica lewinsky. >> i was 12 or 13 years old when he first became president. i remember driving around seeing the bumper sticker saying impeach clinton, six months into his presidency. i remember that culture. what was it for you back then that drew you to that? bill with bill comes to office and, you're right, there's this fierce resistance to him. and you were drawn to it. what drew you to it? >> i got swept up in something. i became a conservative in college, around the ideals of reagan, had various jobs in conservative journalism. that was in the conservative

movement when the clintons won the white house was that they were threatened. they were scared. it was based on fear. and i think it was impressive -- >> what were they threatened by, afraid of? >> i think it's what the clintons represented. it was a generational shift. a look at who hillary clinton was as a professional woman. all of these things and the way they tried to attack them in the '92 election on cultural wedge issues, this was a big change. they were a threat to the status quo. that was one part of it. the other part was fear that they were talented and very good. and so i think those two things together the are actually some of the reasons that you see the same patterns not quite what it was in the '90s yet and hopefully we never get there around hillary clinton's potential candidacy. >> before we get to hillary clinton's potential candidacy, how the right has treated bill clinton and hillary clinton in the 1990s and how the history of barack obama.

i see incredible parallels here. the rise of birtherism, when he becomes president, on his way to becoming president, and i think in the 1990s i remember videos circulated on the right accusing the clintons of murder, of drug running, things like that. the chairman of the oversight committee firing a gun into a pumpkin, all sorts of conspiracy theories, the clinton aide committing suicide and they order this had somehow. i look at the overheated rhetoric and the overheated suspicions around barack obama and i say there are obviously differences but the same forces behind those two things. do you agree with that? >> absolutely. there is an organized right wing in this country. we know that. we know that it didn't accept the will legitimacy of his elec. in some ways while some of the circumstances are unique to the clintons, an important point for people to understand is i believe any democratic president

who defeats the republican party is going to be subject to this. there is something in the water, if you will, which basically has them in a situation where they don't accept the legitimacy of presiden presidents. they employ vicious, cynical politics to try to destroy them. there were lots of scandal politics around president obama about fast and furious and the irs. none of that came to anything. i think birtherism is part of that. the differences have been pushed back. i think if we had offeringses like media matters in the 1990s some of these scanned alts would have never metastasized the way they did. progressives have gotten smarter about how to deal with this stuff. >> it happened to bill clinton, this kind of resistance, it happened to barack obama. it will happen to any democratic president. given what the clintons lived through in the 1990s, whatever you think of them, i have to say, that was a tumultuous life,

impeachment, all the accusations leveled against them, the whitewater investigation, independent counsel. why would hillary clinton -- do you think hillary clinton has any interest in going through a two-year campaign, another decade of her life subjected to th that? >> i have no special knowledge about that. i don't really know. certainly i don't think it should be a deterrent. one of the things i tried to talk about this week in arkansas all of this has been looked at. it's all been asked and answered. there is no point to recycling it. no point to relitigating it. it does seem like a desperate republican strategy right now to go back to the 1990s and turn this over once again. it's all been asked and answered. there's nothing there. the truth is hillary clinton, if she does run, will be the most vetted potential presidential candidate in modern times. >> i want to talk about your role in sort of you talk about the push back and defending her

but peter byner wrote this week, he criticized what you claim to do in 2016. between now and 2016 keep pressuring journalists to do every criticism of hillary clinton to bury their qualms as to avoid complicity with the fox news slime machine. clinton is a gift heed, well meaning politician who could get the country in trouble. it will be a better campaign and she'll be a better president if the press bears that in mind. is that something -- is that a legitimate concern that legitimate scrutiny of the clintons could be shut down because of what you're doing? >> no, i don't think so. first of all, i said in the speech, let's not relitigate all of this now. i respect byner. if he wants to relitigate it all, the most important thing to remember is everything charged on president clinton he was acquitted on everything. two, peter acknowledges some of

my points and agrees with my positive portrait of hillary clinton. i think he has some facts scrambled. president clinton never asked anybody to lie. that was one of the counts dismissed, so there's nothing to that. at the end of the day, we are on the side of fact-based journalists. and in my speech, that's what i was getting at. and there's a certain kind of denial of the fact that conservative forces have in the past and may still in the future be successful in manipulating the mainstream media and if democrats want to be in a state of denial about that, well, that's why they've lost in the past. look at what happened to john kerry. >> very quickly, though, if there's this organized sort of predefense or defense of hillary clinton, do you want there to be a democratic nomination or do you want the party now to get behind hillary clinton and start defending her against the republicans? >> it's really not up to me to decide that. i think there will be a small democratic process in the democratic party.

my own view is if mrs. clinton runs the party will be united behind her. >> my thanks to david brock of media matters. next, a different kind of victory for football players. will it help in the long run? se, professional. i'm actually a dj. [ dance music plays ] woman: [laughs] no way! that really is you? if they're not a cfp pro, you just don't know. cfp -- work with the highest standard.

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i'm not the biggest baseball fan in the world. it is very slow. but as major league baseball plays its opening games the next few days, i'm not super excited about that. it was a pretty big story out of baseball this weekend that caught my attention. the los angeles angels announced they were signing their superstar outfielder mike trout to a six-year extension worth $144 million. he's young but let's put it in perspective for you. he has been in the major leagues now for three years since he was 19 years old, drafted right out of high school. skyrocketed through the minors. he has been one of the best if

not the best baseball player in the league. despite being years younger than his toughest competitors. unlike football and unlike basketball, baseball is unique in that it allows you to make that leap directly to the pro level out of high school. you will be a professional athlete working your way up, hopefully, through the minors. with enough talent, a high school superstar can sign a mike trout-sized account the within a couple of years. kobe bryant and re lebron james may have been drafted for the nba right out of high school but that tonight happen anymore. a new rule introduced after lebron says a player shall be eligible for the nba if, "a," the player is at least 19 years old and, "b," one nba season has elapsed since they graduated high school so they now go to college for one year. you may have noticed there were some college basketball games played this past weekend and you saw some players. they called them one and donees. good reason kentucky will be playing a big game later today against michigan.

in that game and others like it in the ncaa tournament played for big money. ncaa is in the midst of a 14-year deal. cbs and turner sports worth $11 billion for broadcast rights to the annual tournament. there's also equipment, at least 14 universities received a $3 million a year or more from shoe companies. notre dame made big news when it agreed to the biggest deal in h history, a ten-year contract with under armour worth $90 million. student athletes received scholarships as compensation. but that big money goes to the league, goes to the schools, it goes to the coaches which means the college athletes themselves are benefited, the people who are playing the game are not seeing the spoils of their hard wo work. this week the major decision came down from the national labor relations board in chicago when it decreed northwestern football players could organize. they said the players are employees of the university and as such have the right to form a union. the findings in the report were

compelling, players can spend 50 to 60 hours per week engaging in football related activities in addition to their course work. it can be imposed with restrictions on where they live, they go, even what they do. the same pressures that an employer often can have over an employee. those kind of pressures and work load is payment in the form of a scholarship enough or is this the first step to the professionalization of college athletics? strife between the players unions and administration, strikes, lockouts and so on. talking about all of this i want to bring in t.j. mo who says unions are not the answer. jameis from ""the huffington post"" sees it as the best option available now. you worry the college athlete are invaluable. we have two former college athletes and i watched a lot of sports in college. there. get that out of the way. shamus, you think that the road college athletes are going down

with this ruling, with these players at northwestern seeking to become part of the union is ultimately good for college sports, and you're hearing all the fears now you started to outline this means college sports are like pro sports, become so expensive for universities to maintain the programs. you have major salaries for players. why do you think it's a good thing? >> right. so what you're talking about is the fear machine the ncaa is going to roll out right now and that's what you're going to see. i'm of the opinion that power concedes nothing without demand and right now the demand is for the first time student athletes are going to take a legal process if they pass a certain hurdle for unionization. i think we should be more concerned with the real problems of the ncaa than hypothetical problems you alluded to. the unionization process could be flawed and we see this in other business. it's also the only -- >> what's it going to take? what is it going to look like?

it's not just northwestern. it applies only to scholarship athletes. five years from now what will it look like? >> it's definitely seat at the table. student athletes, the indentured servants of the ncaa, all profits go to coaches and executives. people talk about money. i don't want to see $100,000 salaries for 18-year-olds, but it's not only about money. it's having a voice, health care and trust funds for health care as we know. head trauma and other things. it's about owning the right to your likeness.

wanting to have the right to a jersey that might have a number on it. he can't make any money on that. >> that's one of the compelling points to get some kind of payment. >> you graduated from missouri and are playing in the s.e.c. now. s in a major college football program, a major program. they are saying, hey, we are like employees, 50 to 60 hours a week, all these demands. did you feel you were an employee at the university of missouri? >> you know, i did, but i do the want to make one thing clear. missouri did everything within the rauls ules to accommodate m. having done everything possible within ncaa rules to make my experience as good as it could have been, they did that. the problem is with the ncaa and the issue that we have. i think he and i are both in agreement that something needs to change. perhaps just a different avenue. >> you put a number of tweets

out that got a lot of attention, caught our attention. you think there should be a way for college players to get some money but you don't think unionization is the right way to go. >> i think it's a last resort. i'm not even saying you shouldn't do it. and in particular, you know, we've seen the nfl as a union and it has worked well for them. you could argue it either way. they have a seat at the table. we haven't had anything -- athletes, haven't had any reason or anything to hold over the nca eye's head up until this point. it's been four days that they may be shaking in their shoes a little bit, something could happen here. now is the first time we have an opportunity to potentially negotiate and say, hey, unless you're going to make some concessions we may move to a union which could be disastrous for both of us. >> that's the thing. i wonder if this will act as a pressure lever to get the nc ncaa -- maybe it's not ultimately leading to unionization but to change its ruling. the thing you alluded to

earlier, that's obviously outrageous, i remember watching the fab five documentary, the michigan team, you see kids walking around with their numbers on. meanwhile they're scrounging for $5 to get a meal at mcdonald's. the fab five made huge money from michigan. you look at college sports, okay, what about the school in a small conference, mercer. they're not making a lot of money through sponsors. the players are working as hard. how do you negotiate that? >> so there are a lot of ways you might look at that. i don't know what it looks like but one way is to allow student athletes to make money in ways that are restricted right now. bigger schools, bigger athletes. at duke you will be able to get a shoe contract that's worth more. but there are already big contracts from shoe companies but the money goes to the ncaa. a player from mercer, maybe he gets a local business to support him. you know, not shady money but the same kind of advertising and

tv studio -- >> i think one of the things that's always kept the ncaa doing that, that would open the door for the wealthy local booster to create a no-show job worth big money to bring the player in. >> that's true. i think you can still regulate it but i think it's already going on. this is the thing about the argument. t.j. is seeing this at a big-time football program. i didn't see it the same way. but student athletes just aren't seeing this money. it's already happening. some people now are calling the ncaa a cartel and that's a strong word but i think -- >> t.j., you're nodding. you say this is already happening. you saw this. >> not particularly at my school but i do know it's going on. to take the likeness of myself, for instance, at missouri, they sold my jurorsy jersey and the went to the ncaa. they're not allowed to give the money to me. how is that fair? an example i used, gabby douglas

is a girl who everybody in the world wanted to see succeed at 16 years old. she goes to the olympics and wins gold. she is the very best in the world at her craft. and she accepts $10 million in endorsements because that is the prime money making potential for her life, the time you are the best, all the owe limp ians, from ages 14-18. once you get to college you're getting worse. she had to make a decision do i want to compete in college or accept this money now? how is it possible that the ncaa is standing up clapping for this girl winning gold because she took a dollar from nike and now is not allowed to compete. >> like i said, you look at all the money that's out there. there has to be some way to distribute this and some way to keep a separation between what college sort of -- the ideal of college. >> we're professional athletes and the idea is a beautiful thing that only kind of exists in america and so i think there's a solution. the ncaa won't change, though,

and won't make a move. >> now there's the ncaa. i have to go but i want to thank t.j. mo. an update to the breaking news out of new jersey this morning. k you'll need when you retire? then we gave each person a ribbon to show how many years that amount might last. i was trying to, like, pull it a little further. [ woman ] got me to 70 years old. i'm going to have to rethink this thing. it's hard to imagine how much we'll need for a retirement that could last 30 years or more. so maybe we need to approach things differently, if we want to be ready for a longer retirement. ♪ oh, there's a prize, all right. [ male announcer ] inside every box of cheerios are those great-tasting little o's made from carefully selected oats that can help lower cholesterol. is it a superhero? kinda. ♪ kinda.

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let's close! new at&t mobile share value plans our best value plans ever for business. you believe that you did not hear mayor zimmer say any of this, anything that she alleges took place. you believe you heard the entire conversation and you believe then she was fabricating this. >> i don't believe she is fabricating anything. >> you heard the conversation, you did not hear this. >> i did not hear commissioner constable in any way, shape or form threaten mayor zimmer. absolutely not. >> right. and you're saying you are confident you heard the conversation. >> i am confident. >> so she is making this up? >> could he have whispered it? i guess. i'm just telling you, they weren't whispering. they were talking like you and i are talking. >> in the previous hour we spoke with matt doherty, mayor of

belmar. he is cited in in the report commissioned by governor chris christie's administration as a key witness to the conversation between dawn zimmer and christie cabinet official richard constable. this morning we received a statement just after that interview from hoboken mayor dawn zimmer responding to mayor doherty's remarks. thank you to mayor doherty for publicly acknowledging today that his account in the mastro report was mischaracterized. mr. mastro in his report claim mayor toert affirmatively testified the conversation i related it not occur. mayor doherty acknowledged that he did not hear the entirety of the conversation. contrary to mr. mastro's report. mr. mastro's deliberate attempt to distort the facts is not surprising given that governor christie spent well over $1 million to compensate himself for doing that. i call on mr. mastro to release the full transcripts of both the questions and answers contained in the interviews conducted so the public can determine just how biased the mastro report truly is.

if no transcripts exist, a fact mr. mastro failed to keep a record of the conversations he claimed to have, speaks volumes. we're not sure mayor doherty would agree with mayor zimmer's characterization of his int interview this morning. we're not sure at this point. it looks like there is a lot more to come on this story. dentures are very different to real teeth.

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probably two different things or at least they can be. and this week when the demon sheep met their match. >> i'm joanie ernst. i grew up castrating hogs on an iowa farm. when i get to washington, i'll know how to cut pork. washington's full of big spenders. let's make them squeal. >> that's iowa republican senate candidate joanie ernst, finding a unique way to show her financial credentials. it's called squeal. the ad has gotten her a the lot of free play this week both on television and on the internet. as the kids say, it's gone viral. other ads we nominate for the viral campaign hall of fame, you might have dale peterson flaupting his rifle for alabama agriculture commissioner back in 2010. i don't think he won that race. more recently who can forget carl swartino who won votes when he came out to his father about being a liberal.

what it didn't win was the election. you can expect to see more and more of these clever political ads as they rely on the varl nature of the internet, exposure that is free and more likely to be seen as more and more americans fast forward through commercials on their dvrs. dvr users skip 50% of commercials. in this world viewers are more and more numb to television commercials where they've seen so many generic political ads over the years they probably blur together as white noise at this point. in this world is the only way for a candidate to break through, to actually catch the attention of voters, coming up with a demon sheep video and squeal at? to talk about it, i want to welcome joan walsh from salon.com and msnbc contributor josh beier, and our ad man in the group, jimmy siegel, welcome

to all of you. definitely the first political ad in history that has the words castration in it, that it has been mentioned on steve kornacki. congratulations. you're all a part of history. >> thank you for having us. >> jimmy, talking about castration, help yourself to some food. >> bacon. >> right. >> where's the bacon? >> jimmy, that ad from iowa, that illustrates to me what i think is the challenge of political advertising these days. so many americans, so many voters have drvs, they don't actually watch commercials. so the challenge, part of the challenge is make the ad interesting enough that they're going to play it during the broadcast and you'll see it there. is that what they are thinking more and more about? >> you're right that a lot of people who do these internet viral ads don't win, but that's a little bit misleading because most of the people who do those kind of ads have no name i.td.,

they're challengers. chuck schumer is not going to do a wild internet video. he doesn't have to. so these people need to get their name out there. the trick with those things are that laughing with someone and laughing at someone, a lot of these ads become viral because people looking at them and they can't believe how bad they are. ideally what you want to do is create something that breaks through on the internet. it makes people actually like you. >> i'm thinking in 2010 christie o'donnell i'm not a witch. that may have vested demon sheep for viral ad 20 10e. >> we were all laughing at it. i'm going to say on the record that i think the squeal ad is actually -- could be effective because i know what she is saying. she is going to cut pork. it's not the way i would have made the point, but at least you know what she's saying. with the fiorina ad it was a

disaster. she was supposed to be this business, top flight business, rational, smart, moderate can d candidate and she goes off with an ad to get ready for the segment i always to my homework, i watched it. i never really knew what it was about. he's a fiscal conservative, tom campbell. it took you ten minutes to explain to somebody what would that ad really be trying to tell you it didn't stick with you except she's really blowing her campaign. she has no idea what she is doing. >> i remember seeing a few of those. not that he even had a chance, mike gorvelle put this video up in 2007. the most memorable part to the campaign. he throws a rock into the pond, walks away and they just keep the camera for 15 minutes on the pond. i still have no idea what it was all about. >> i think in a lot of cases these things aren't so much about reaching voters as about

fund-raising. i think that was the key with the ad when you have a congressional race or another race where going viral nationally is of little value in terms of reaching voters but it can allow you to raise money and then be able to reach the voters in a more traditional way. sometimes they can succeed even if there isn't a direct line between them and the humiliation of votes. >> just the idea, you don't even have to produce the tv ad. you put it up online, and then you're a congressional candidate, and here's somebody in california with money saying, i like this guy. here is the donate online button. >> we did an ad and re-created the role from good night and good luck. we played edward. he was talking about someone attacking her like joe mccarthy had and we ran that really to get national attention and hopefully get donations from out of state. that's absolutely done. i like the castration ad but not just because -- >> oh, boy. >> not just because of the pork thing. i like the subtext that

washington is run by old caucasian men and she's going to get in there and make some people squeal. that's something very appealing to women probably about that. >> these things are fun. i liked the squeal ad. they're fun, too. the art of the political ad, this is something, what, 30, 40 years old. you look at the original ones and you're like, how about this ever get through? they become so generic. an entire generation has probably grown up and knows attack ads. they blow everybody's heads. the challenge of just catching somebody's attention now, the bar is so much higher with that. >> in 2010 you had these generic ads in districts far away from new york coming out against the ground zero mosque. remember, in alabama -- i'm going to stop the ground zre row mosque. there's a way they can be cookie cutter ads. effective ads were the original

king of bane by newt gingrich was not effective for gingrich but i really think that the ads that came out of that, the long video, a lot of people watched the whole thing, set it up for the obama campaign to do their series of ads with people who lost their jobs allegedly because of decisions. >> that was bank rolled. >> the republican candidates this weekend including chris christie. >> absolutely right. >> i think the challenge the campaigns and ad makers is very similar to what i feel day-to-day in the press. we have pieces of information that we think are interesting and important and the question is how do we get people to engage and share and read it. >> so if i'm using a discussion about "breaking bad" to get people to understand how insurance plans work under obamacare, the thing i really want to talk about is the insurance policy thing but no one will read it if i'm like, and here is what you should know about whether this doctor -- it

has to have the pop culture hook. it's on you to make the viewer interested whether it's press or whether it's a campaign ad. >> so we have to squeeze a break in here. we'll look at this from the standpoint of democrats are very worried right now about the coke products. they have launched a truly massive television advertising campaign against a number of vulnerable senators. do those ads even work anymore? mine was earned in korea in 1953. afghanistan, in 2009. orbiting the moon in 1971. [ male announcer ] once it's earned, usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection. and because usaa's commitment to serve current and former military members and their families is without equal. begin your legacy. get an auto insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve. their type 2 diabetes...

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this was the funniest thing, parodies put out by team mitch, making a joke out of those strange ads where senator mcconnell is smiling straight into the camera. if you didn't know the story this week, this is becoming customary in the age of super pacs where you as a candidate, you can't officially coordinate with the super pac so what the campaigns will do in many cases now is they'll put material just online. they will make material available like a generic picture, generic video. that went online on mcconnell's site, just him looking. he had nothing to do with it. the super pac can pick it up and use it. as the mcconnell people found out, anybody can pick it up and use it and use it for very hilarious purposes. to their credit they got the joke and played along with it. that brings us to the point i was getting to before the break. jimmy, the coke brothers,

everybody's favorite havevillai they have run so far 17,000 ads, i think is the number, in senate race this is year against democratic candidates. lots of vulnerable candidates and they are nervous about all this money the cokes will put into this in expenditures. what we're talking about in the last segment, it's tougher and tougher to get people's attention in these ads. everybody has a dvr, they go right through the commercials, so democrats are scared about 17,000 ads from the coke brothers but how many people will see them? how many voters will see the things or who will it register with? >> if you have such a barrage of them they can be effective. one of the strange things about politics, i'm sure you have heard, when you poll people and ask if they like negative ads. absolutely not. i wish they didn't run them. people are still responding to them. and just the sheer amount of money they pump into it, they will outspend -- the republicans will outspend the democrats.

and the amount they can pump into this is worrisome. they have a right to be worried. >> i guess the thing is it's not as effective -- the average political ad on television can't be anywhere near as effective as 10 and 20, 30 years ago because the desensitization everybody feels towards the ads and people don't watch them anymore. they zip past them on the dvr. >> i think the prohibition reduces the effectiveness of the ads. on average if you're a billionaire, you became a billionaire because you're good at something but it's not figuring out how to run a campaign. i think $89 million was spent in the last cycle to no actual political effect. so i think in a lot the of cases the money is not being spent in the way the candidates would spend it themselves if they had control over it. >> it produces some really weird

ads. remember the aung l sam one run by the anti-obamacare -- pops up. i think that was one of those things paved as an independent thing and might have been funded by somebody, hey, i have money and, great, let's kill obamacare and here iscare. >> they were the creepy perverts. so, i think that the coke brother's money will be kig can' significant. wonder if people are tuning the adds out because it gets debunked. somebody finds the poor victim of the good obama care plan. and finds that the story is only half the story and they keep finding the new keep but democrats are behind the stories one by one. >> are we approaching a day on the horizon when television politicaltizing go as way? >> years and years into the

future. politics in some respects is at the edge of things. as far as targeting they are pret yi good. look look at the obama campaign. adds haven't changed that much. the general political add hasn't changed that much. 48% of people sit in front of their tv looking at their smartphone. they are looking at something else while the tv is there. they are willing to take more risks on the internet. you get it on the internet and you feel you can let your hair down a bit. on tv they don't do as much of that. >> when we pitch a candidate. we say jesus people can do a thousand other things instead of

watch your add and they will. the interesting ones, we are sitting in new york right now. bill deblasio, the add with his son got traction over the air waves and helped make him mayor. so yeah, they still work. what should we know nor the week ahead? our answers right after this. ea. it doesn't? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus fights your worst cold symptoms plus has a fast-acting antihistamine. oh, what a relief it is!

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all right it is that time where we find out what our guests think we should know, we will start with you. >> governor christie will admit that he ordered the lane closings on the george washington bridge. the republicans will say they were kidding about global warming and both parties will put out a bipartisan statement saying they actually do vote in favor of those companies and it will happen on tuesday april fool's day. >> i think republicans should

know this weeks that they are on schedule to get jeb bush fever. phillip and robert costa have a great piece in today's washingt washington post saying that they want to turn jeb bush into the new mitt romney. it will be an interesting development in the such for a front-runner. >> i have been hearing that name more. and now i'm like woe. >> people should know that monday is the obama care sign up deadline. there is a sort of an extension you can use a special enrollment for some period after ward. this will start the process very quickly going into rate setting for 2015. people have been focused and how the sick the people that have signed up are.

and that is going to drive how the premiums are for next year. if it doesn't trend that sick on average, we might see a modest premium average. >> key questions. i want to thank jimmy see gel and thank you for getting up. we'll be back next weekend saturday and sunday at 8:00 eastern time. nerdland is next. ♪ ♪ [ female announcer ] with five perfectly sweetened whole grains... you can't help but see the good. crest 3d white whitestrips vs. a whitening pen. i feel like i'm going to miss a spot. i think you actually might have. i feel like my lips are going to, like, wash it off. these fit nicely. wait, it says to use up to four times a day? oh, gosh. i'm not going to do that.

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