thanks for disrupting your afternoon. i'm karen finney. in this hour, hopes for a peaceful solution to an international crisis in the forecast. how do you take health care away from 6 million americans? and how let's follow the money and meet the billionaire who's fighting to impose his freedoms on you. it's all coming up. >> obamacare has come a long way since all of the problems with the website. >> should they be spiking the football? >> 6 million people have signed up. that's before this huge surge. >> i think they're cooking the books on this. >> i checked the numbers this morning. it's now 6,563,000. >> the old system we had, i would have been forever barred from having private health insurance. now i'm not. >> look at what obamacare is really doing. >> for the first time in my life, i'm covered. i can't tell you how good that feels. >> very new developments tonight on the crisis in ukraine.

>> secretary of state john kerry will engage if last-ditch diplomacy with russia's foreign minister in paris. >> putin did call our president. >> the white house has to wait and see how serious putin is about diplomacy. >> will there be a diplomatic solution to this crisis? >> i hope so. ♪ in your forecast this week, diplomacy, domestic agenda, and dog whistles. we begin with the diplomatic efforts to diffuse the ukrainian crisis that president obama back at home and back to his top domestic issues. john kerry is meeting with his russian counterpart in paris to try and find a way out of the escalating confrontation over russia's annexation of crimea. the last-minute rendezvous came after putin made a phone call to

president obama on friday. meanwhile, the top american general in europe has been called back early from a trip to washington due to concerns about russian troop movements at the ukrainian border. here's how intelligence chair mike rodgers describes the situation there. >> we see tens of thousands -- and it's not just the number of troops. it's the kind of troops and the kind of configuration. what units are along that border and what could they accomplish. they have everything they need already, i believe, on that eastern border to go into ukraine if they decide they want to do it. >> here in the u.s. with the president back from his trip overseas, democrats are renewing their focus on economic issues. president obama hits the road this week to tout his proposed minimum wage hike while the senate is fully set to vote on unemployment insurance. on the other side of the aisle, republicans cannot seem to shake their benghazi obsession. and the taxpayers are the ones footing the bill. joining me now, raul reyes, a columnist for "usa today," and

jacky kucinich. thanks to you both. jackie, i'll start with you on the ukrainian crisis. i guess the question is at this point, on the one hand, you've got negotiations going on. on the other hand, you've got troops building up on the bor r border. so is putin really negotiating in good faith here? >> he reached out to the president on friday. that's good news. you have secretary kerry talking with his russian counterpart in paris. they seem to be moving in that direction. there's a plan they're actually discussing. i understand secretary kerry might speak soon. we'll have to see what he says. it certainly looks like it's moving in the right direction. the troop build-up certainly is of concern. >> raul, it's interesting. because it feels like this is a lot about, at this point, russia's fear of losing the grip on the ukraine. they want assurances, right, that they won't lose it to the eu. lavrov said something interesting on state tv. he said, quote, if you look at the wider picture, it seems is our western colleagues have been

creating the conditions for many years to tear away ukraine from russia. all the reflexes for sanctions which we're currently witnessing remind us of an effort to show their grudge to the full. last time i checked, most ukrainians wanted to join the eu. there's no stripping or ripping away going on. >> and no matter what his rhetoric is, you know, the fact remains that what russia really wants at this point, russia basically wants to say crimea is gone and we're going to negotiate about the eastern ukraine. they also want assurances they won't become part of nato. not only that is not acceptable to the u.s., itst 's not a pled or promise we can make. this was an illegal annexation, a violation of international law. the fact we can't necessarily do anything about it does not ameliorate this was an illegal

action. >> right. you know, jackie, the eukrainia aid package is expected to be signed into law this week. i think that's going to strengthen the president's plan. he also comes off, i'd say, a fairly successful trip to europe where he was able to galvanize support from europe and the nato leaders. >> one of the interesting thing that's happened through this russian crisis is it's mended his fences with some of the united states' allies. the chancellor merkel and obama had a little bit of friction there because of the nsa surveillance. the problems in russia have seemed to resolidify that relationship. >> yeah, that's very true. all right. i'm going to switch to the domestic forecast in washington. unemployment insurance, the minimum wage. we have democrats r returning t that focus. the president is going to ann arbor, michigan, to talk about the minimum wage. we know it's not going to happen. i mean, we do.

he's doing it knowing it's not going to happen, but it's a critical message for 2014. >> absolutely. on this message, to boil it down, it's to keep making the point it's the math, stupid. when you break it down that if someone working at the federal minimum wage, 40 hours a week with no days off, you earn $15,000 a year. you cannot live on that. and everyone knows that, even in states that are lower-wage states, such as arkansas, alabama. every layperson knows you cannot survive on that in 2014 in this country. i think there's also, you know, there's a good conservative argument that needs to be made that when we have a higher minimum wage, that's less people on food stamps, less people on welfare, all those things republicans don't like. that needs to be brought up, the basic math and living standards again and again and again. >> jackie, particularly this message is geared towards women, which is a key part of the 2014 strategy. i want to play a little sound for you from vice president biden who stepped in and did the weekly address this week. >> right now women make up more

than half of the workers who would benefit from increasing the minimum wage. folks, a low minimum wage is one of the reasons why women in america make only 77 cents on a dollar that every man makes. but by raising the minimum wage, we can close that gap by 5%. and it matters. it matters to a lot of hard-working families, particularly moms raising families on the minimum wage. >> so jackie, i think we're going to hear a lot about women and the minimum wage coming up this week and in the months ahead. >> absolutely. democrats have a women's agenda they've been pursuing. this is a key part of that. but it's interesting. when you talk to republicans about this, they're counter is, okay, fine, but you need to have a job before you can start making the minimum wage. their contention has been that, you know, you raise the minimum wage, people aren't going to hire, businesses respect going to hire employees. it's a debate that continues. absolutely, both sides are targeting women.

because they play such a big role in the midterms. >> all right. we're going to shift gears to benghazi because since the republicans can't seem to let go of it, raul, i will not let go of it. we learned this week that darrell issa has been continuing to do these behind-the-scenes investigations, closed-door meetings. 17 democrats on the oversight committee signed a letter asking him to stop. one of the things most interesting is the pentagon came out this week, finally suggesting that this is costing them millions of dollars. you would think that at a minimum -- they may not care about, you know, the administration and sort of in terms of regular workers having to deal with hearings and meeting, but you would think they wouldn't want to jam up the pentagon, right? >> right. and look at what this whole process has been about. it's been the fishing expedition of the highest order where he's continually had these hunches and suspicions, demanded thousands of documents, and then back to another hunch. there has not been anything.

i believe the longer that this campaign goes on, the more obvious it is to people that it's completely politically motivated. the thing is, you know, the whole thrust behind this is obviously to damage hillary's bid in 2016. but it is not working. you know, just last month -- actually, this month the public policy polling found that 67% of americans viewed hillary clinton's time as secretary of state as her most positive -- their most favorable impression of her. it's not resonating with the general public, only with that small segment of the base who's obsessed with benghazi and hillary. >> what you have to love is at the same time you've got john boehner saying there's not enough time to do the unemployment insurance extension because we're so busy on benghazi. we can't make the time. thank you to raul reyes and jackie kucinich. >> thank you. >> thank you. next, the gop reboot may be dead on arrival, but for 2014, it doesn't matter. time for democrats to wake up or prepare to suffer big losses. that's coming up. [ male announcer ] they say mr. clean was born

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that i actually think reflects the reality of who the uninsured are, relatively less sophisticated, less comfortable with forms, less educated. >> those were recent comments from republican congressman and doctor bill cassidy. that was his take on the uninsured. less sophisticated and less educated. it's a great way to help mark the one-year anniversary of the republicans' growth and opportunity project, or the gop autopsy. rnc chairman reince priebus response to mitt romney's 2012 loss. let's not change our policies. rather, let's change how we talk about those policies to various parts of the electorate, like

poor people, where the report pointed out, quote, the republican party must be the champion of those who seek to climb the economic ladder of life. now, cassidy since tried to backtrack. but does this matter in the context of 2014? according to a new poll, a majority of women and hispanics think the party is out of touch. here's the thing. it doesn't really matter, and here's why. the enthusiasm gap. according to a new cbs news poll, republicans are more enthusiastic about voting in this year's midterm elections than democrats by double digits. so the bottom line, republicans, they can continue to offend as many people as they want as long as democrats don't show up in november. joining me now is political editor at the grio, perry bacon, and founder of american bridge, david brock. thanks to you both. perry, i want to start with you.

if republicans do gain a senate majority, which they may very well do in november, and pick up eight or more house seats, it will be because of who they are not, not because of who they are. the republicans can win in 2014 without having fixed their problems. when you look at the gerrymandered districts and what's going on, that seems true to me. they don't have to do much in order to have a big win in 2014. >> exactly. remember in 2008 the republicans lost women, blacks, hispanics, young people by a huge margin. they came back and won in 2010. they thought the lesson was, we don't have to change at all. they lost in 2012 again. i think the pattern is repeating itself again. they've given up on immigration reform. they're passing voter i.d. laws everywhere. they're not doing a lot to appeal to the same groups that they lost before. but this year's senate map is kentucky, arkansas, south dakota, montana. these are states without a lot of minorities in them. so the republicans can win the senate back this year without really making much appeal to

these same blocs. in 2016, they'll have the same problems over again and really not have dealt with their challenges of demographics. >> democrats have been talking about the reboot and how they're failing and all that. when you look at the 2014 map, i know you guys, you know, catalog a lot of these gaps these candidates make, but when you look at the map, it doesn't matter because they're voters are more likely to turn out. >> sure. their voters are motivated also because they have a story to tell. their story is really a lot of falsehoods about the affordable care act. that's really all they have to offer. so i think that's one thing. so we need -- we can't beat something with nothing, right? we need to turn out our own folks. i think of how president clinton was to critical in turning 2012 around on. we have a record to run on. we have a plan for recover recod he explained the affordable care act. we have to say, hey, this is a

good law, and these are the things republicans want to take away from you. >> don't you think democrats need to recognize the problem, recognize that there is a disparity in terms of the potential for turnout? i feel like i'm not hearing that conversation in democratic circles. >> sure. they have to obviously realize they have to look at a state like virginia. so in virginia, women and african-americans turned out at the same level as they did in 2012 for terry mcauliffe. that's because there was a conversation about ken cuccinelli's extremism on women's preproductive health, on gays, on voting rights. that can motivate our folks if we take the ball and run with it. >> perry, gallup came out with important analysis on demographics that have been trendsing towards what party, no shocker here, young people are moving towards the democrats. you have older voters moving towards the republican party.

so in the midterms, though, the issue is if you look at who actually shows up, it's seniors who tend to show up. again, sort of underscoring the point. it's great that young vote -- we're getting more young voters. i think that's going to make a big difference when we talk about 2016. when you're talking about a midterm loelectorate, it's a different ball game. >> that's true. there has been some study. i know the dscc has been talking about this a lot. they have a big project undertaking where they want to look at georgia, louisiana, north carolina specifically. those are three states that have big senate races with lots of young voters and black voters. they're talking about, how do we get black and latino turning out in a midterm? it's not impossible for that to happen. in missouri in 2012, there was pretty high turnout among obama supporting groups, even though obama cannot campaign in that state himself. that helped claire mccaskill win. and a republican making some

gaffes. these very conservative states, you're going to need a -- you need the republicans to make some mistakes along with a pretty strong minority turnout. that i think can happen. you saw that last psycycle in states like missouri. >> the other side of this is we're seeing republicans be unrelenting when it comes to voting. their strategy is, we're going to fire up our base and do everything we cannot necessarily to depress the democratic base but to make sure the democratic voters can't vote, whether it's early voting, you name it. that's their focus. >> sure. so they don't like the demographic trends, clearly. what they want to do is rig the rules. we saw on the front page of the "new york times" today this is an effort going on all over the country by republicans to deny people their constitutional rights by a party that says it reveres the constitution. so that is clearly a strategy. i think another strategy is the way paul ryan is leading a war

on the poor, blaming the poor for not having work ethics. what they're doing to withhold medicaid in the states to sabotage health care for exposed kids to disease. these are things we can talk about effectively. >> and democrats, if you're listening, time to wake up. time to get a little scared and get out there. thank you to perry bacon and david brock. when we come back, a milestone is met on the affordable care act, and the question is, how do you take health care away from 6 million americans? [ female announcer ] crest presents: crest 3d white whitestrips vs. a whitening pen. i feel like my lips are going to, like, wash it off. these fit nicely. [ female announcer ] crest 3d white whitestrips keep the whitening ingredient in place, guaranteeing professional level results. crest whitestrips. the way to whiten. i can't believe your mom has a mom cave! today i have new campbell's chunky spicy chicken quesadilla soup. she gives me chunky before every game. i'm very souperstitious. haha, that's a good one! haha! [ male announcer ] campbell's chunky soup. it fills you up right. [ male announcer ] campbell's chunky soup.

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i need health care. so this is a blessing. >> right now i'm paying about $100 every week for my private insurance. and from now on, it's going to be a lot cheaper. zero copayment. >> i haven't had insurance since before i can remember. so this is really a god send. >> i didn't want to miss the deadline. and because i needed it for

health reasons. >> four years and seven days since president obama signed the affordable care act into law. there are 6 million more people with stories like those americans who have signed up for insurance through the affordable care act exchanges ahead of tomorrow night's deadline, proving we've come a long way from glitches and snags in a very rocky website rollout. just this month, 70,000 people enrolled every day. and in a final weekend push, supporters held more than 500 grassroots events across the country. now, how did republicans mark this final month of sign-ups? you guessed it, with a 54th vote to dismantle the law, proving that the right strategy for the 2014 midterms will still consist of dismantling or repealing a law that's given millions of americans access to health care. with increasing numbers of voters sharing their stories of coverage, it's time for democrats to go on offense on the affordable care act. it's time to own it.

it's time to run on it and not away from it. joining me today are april ryan, white house correspondent for american urban radio network, and jonathan cohn, a senior editor for "the new republic." thanks for joining me. so april, i want to start with you. you know, it was a pretty big announcement for the white house, i think it was thursday, that they were able to announce 6 million sign-ups with days to go. we've still got, what, until midnight tomorrow might. this is a good sign for the democrats and for the president. >> yeah, it's a great sign. i've got new numbers for you, karen. they reached the 6-million mark, but i've got new numbers. they're saying that they have exceeded 6.3 million now. so that's from my sources close to aca. and not only that, the numbers of those that crush that's coming in, in the last couple days, it's been like 100,000 people enrolling friday, saturday, and even into today. the numbers are coming, the crush is coming for this effort, for this aca marketplace

insurance. >> jonathan, it strikes me this is exactly the way we talked about or they talked about how they expected the process to work, right. there would be more of a crush towards the end as we got closer to the deadline. that is bearing itself out. we've now moved away from, you know, the debacle of the initial website rollout. if you take a look, there's a kizer poll that shows americans are pretty sick and tired of this conversation about the affordable care act debate. i think they think there's other issues. i don't disagree with them on that. so is it time to shift the conversation about the affordable care act? >> i think there is time. look, it's going to be in the news. it's going to be part of politics. all over the country, you know, we have groups like americans for prosperity that are pouring tons of money into these ads about people saying, you know, bad things about obamacare. but here on the other hand, we have these stories like the ones you had at the beginning of your segment. these are reality.

people getting insurance for the first time. people who had insurance but were paying a lot more for it. so, you know, what you were saying before, if i'm a democrat, i'm getting up there and saying, yeah, i voted for this. i'm the reason that all these people have insurance. i'm the reason that all these people are saving money. if you don't like what i did, tell me what you're going to do instead and tell me why you want to take coverage away from these people. >> i think, jonathan, just to follow up on that point, we're really now talking about the republican candidates having to have a message about how they're going to take away something from people. so far we really haven't heard what they would replace it with. >> right. well, you know, there's a good reason. they don't have a plan. you know, as you said, they have voted to repeal the affordable care act not once, not twice, they're up to 50 times. but they've been in control of the house, what, three years now? and they haven't yet brought a bill to the floor. they haven't gotten behind a si single idea that would come

close to what the affordable care act does. that tells me they don't have a plan. they're not interested as a party in doing something about this. all they want to do is tear down obamacare. that's it. >> and yet, april, you know, when we take a look at the numbers, more numbers in that kizer poll, obviously the white house has to be thrilled. through your sources, 6.3 million. clearly they're continuing to make progress in reaching their goal. at the same time, though, in that same kizer poll out this week, 59% of americans are unaware of the march 31st deadline, and 50% plan on staying uninsured. that suggests that there still is a lot of work to do. there's been so much money poured into, you know, sort of the mythology about what's wrong about the affordable care act that it's not surprising that there's a lot of misinformation out there. but it shows the white house still has a lot of work to do. >> karen, there's misinformation for a lot of reasons. one, the rollout of this, communicating this was really bad from the inception when the president -- when this was passed.

he had to go back and sell it to the american people after the bill was passed. and then when it was signed, remember when we were all talking about how vice president biden said this is a big deal? that brought a lot of attention to it. but the communication on this landmark legacy piece for this president just didn't make it over to the american publics' ears for them to grasp and take in. then you have this confusion about this extension for those who did not complete the process at the very beginning when there was the crush, the crash of the system, i guess you would say. they have another two weeks if you were already in the system and did not finish. you have that two-week extension for those in the system at the very beginning. but for those of you who don't have insurance, you've got to do it before midnight tomorrow night. also, this is what's going to make people realize that you have to have it. the fact that there will be penalties come next filing year for taxes. if you do not have insurance,

you will be assessed some extra taxes. $95 or a percentage of your income. that happens every year. so if they don't get it through the communication, they're going to find out about it through the pocket. >> all right. we have to leave it there. thank you, april ryan and jonathan cohn. >> you're welcome. thanks, karen. when we come back, republicans are always extolling the virtues of states' rights and leaving it to the states. that's until those governors come up with a way to feed the poor and the needy. it's the one loophole that john boehner actually wants to close, coming up when we get back. i take prilosec otc each morning for my frequent heartburn.

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so our business can be on at&t's network for $175 a month? yup. all 5 of you for $175. our clients need a lot of attention. there's unlimited talk and text. we're working deals all day. you get 10 gigabytes of data to share. what about expansion potential? add a line, anytime, for $15 a month. low dues, great terms. let's close! new at&t mobile share value plans our best value plans ever for business. since the passage of the farm bill, states have found ways to cheat once again on signing up people for food stamps. so i would hope that the house would act to try to stop this

cheating and this fraud from continuing. >> oh, come on, mr. speaker. you can't really be surprised that governors in at least eight states are doing everything they can to protect people from the latest round of cuts to the supplemental nutrition assistance program. two-thirds are children, the elderly, or disabled people. this latest round of cuts, which the gop fought for in the 2014 farm bill, are particularly insidious because poor people who also get a minor subsidy to heat their homes, will lose the additional s.n.a.p. benefits they used to be eligible for. you may ask why. because as part of the deal, the gop increased the minimum requirement states must pay to trigger the increase for beneficiaries. now, the governors of these eight states found a way, a legal way, around the proposed federal cuts, a way to protect money for heating and food. they've basically created a loophole so that the poorest people in their states don't have to choose between heating

their homes or feeding their families. while the gop has been so busy railing against the affordable care act and opposing an increase in the minimum wage, they can't address corporate welfare or corporate tax loopholes that could save the government billions. they've taken this revolt from governors a bit personally. now they're crying foul and threatening retaliation. iowa congressman steve king told politico, quote, we can't have governors of these states gaming the system and thumbing their noses at the united states congress. if we don't get this fix in the short term, it's more likely we'll fix it real good in the longer term. republican congressman frank lucas, who helped negotiate the bill, was even more direct, warning, quote, these governors now will cause a new set of hearings, a new set of bills, a new set of appropriations amounts. at an appropriations hearing earlier this month, it was agriculture secretary tom vilsack who defended the governors' rights to take action. >> as a former governor and

former state senator, i respect the role of both state legislatures and governors to make decisions about their resources, what they believe to be in the best interest of their folks. >> joining me now, former governor of vermont and dnc chairman, howard dean. thanks for joining me pchlgts tha -- >> thanks for having me on. >> you're former governor of a state dealing with this issue right now. can you explain to the audience what we're talking about in terms of what the governors are trying to do in terms of taking from one pot of money to help insure that they don't suffer losses in the other? >> sure. you're essentially faced with a heartless group of people running the congress. i'm just astonished they're this open about wanting to starve poor people. it's just incredible how -- the way they're behaving. basically, what you can do is if you add money to the fuel subsidies and you basically don't -- they don't lose the benefit that they would have gotten by food stamps.

and a lot of these states are already putting some of their own money into fuel subsidies. this is more complicated by the fact that the fuel subsidies were cut as well in this congress. what astonishes me is the incredible hypocrisy of a group of people who are all for states' rights until the states do something they disagree with. >> right. >> and they're almost proud to stick it to children and poor people. i mean, rick perry, running around talking about jobs in texas, a fifth of his children have no health insurance. a quarter of all adults have no insurance. the average wage in texas is lower than it is in the state of vermont. i'm astonished by these people. i don't think beating up on poor people gets you to win elections. i think this is one of the reasons republicans are having such trouble winning presidential elections. >> you make a good point. it struck me as well when they talk about states' rights and let's leave it to the states and

they're all fine with the republican governors refusing medicaid for the people in their states who really need it, another way they're denying the poor. in this case, health care. but when it comes to governors trying to say, you know what, we need to take care of our people, that's when they attack. that language of, you know -- i mean, are they really going to haul them in more hearings, for heaven's sake? >> luckily, they don't have a vehicle to do this. if it hadn't been for the necessity of having a farm bill, they wouldn't have been able to do this. interestingly, in the farm bill, why they were busy cutting $8 billion away from poor kids who need food, they were adding money to corporate subsidies. these guys love big agriculture. they're completely shameless. i don't know who they think they're representing. the average american, republican or democrat, doesn't think you ought to starve kids. >> right. you know, governor, i took a look at john boehner's home state of ohio. 1.8 million people rely on s.n.a.p. in the state of ohio. it's the sixth highest among the

states. the ohio association of food banks has already said they don't think they can come up with the $190 million to offset the cuts. i think we're seeing this happen in a lot of states where the republicans said, oh, well, the private sector donations will make up the difference. but i think what we're hearing from people on the ground is that's not the case. the food banks are actually running into a crisis in trying to help the people they serve. >> well, this may be the issue. i think john boehner had a capability of being a decent speaker. he was clearly intimidated by the tea party. he actually appeared to believe what he said this time at the expense of children. i think he's probably run his course as the speaker. there is a reason that as congressman king was talking about not paying attention to congress. of course we don't pay attention to congress. not only are they useless, but they're mean spirited. they're hardly americans. i don't know why we should listen to a thing they do. >> i guess so -- okay, governor. my question to you, as a former governor, i know there were times you didn't necessarily

agree with washington and did different things. are governors within their legal rights to do what they're doing? >> yeah, for the most part. well, i'm not a lawyer. but i think they are. i'm sure that will be litigated if steve king, god forbid, has the key to a courtroom. although, it's hard to find anybody as nutty as he is on the bench. who knows what'll happen. but in general, governors do have leeway to do these kinds of things. if you believe in federalism, they should be. if it's okay for rick perry and the governor of mississippi to take away women's rights to make their own reproductive choices, how come it's not okay for the governors of vermont and connecticut to make sure their kids get fed properly? >> amen to that. thank you so much, governor howard dean. >> thank you. coming up, the broader right-wing movement being funded by the same people who brought you the hobby lobby case and the billionaire who wants to put his fre freedom ahead of yours. you won't want to miss it. ♪

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♪ nationwide is on your side coming up, we take a closer look at the people behind that case that would put one couple's beliefs ahead of yours. don't forget, you can disrupt the status quo all week long. find us on facebook or tweet us @msnbcdisrupt. stay with us. we'll be right back. [ sniffles, coughs ] shhhh! i have a cold with this annoying runny nose. [ sniffles ] i better take something. [ male announcer ] dayquil cold and flu doesn't treat all that. it doesn't? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus fights your worst cold symptoms plus has a fast-acting antihistamine. oh, what a relief it is! how much money do you think you'll need when you retire? then we gave each person a ribbon to show how many years that amount might last. i was trying to, like, pull it a little further.

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john, you know this guy? what's in your wallet?

on tuesday, the supreme court heard oral arguments in the art and crafts giant seeking an exemption from a requirement in the affordable care act that employers must offer health care plans that cover all forms of contraception without a copayment. now, much of the focus has been on the arguments of the case,

but we wanted to take a closer look at the people behind it and what other conservative causes they're involved in. meet the green family. the greens are the owners of hobby lobby, and they're the plaintiffs in the supreme court case. according to reports in salon.com and "forbes" mgz, david green is the largest donor to evangelical organizations. on ncf's website, green says this. the national christian foundation provides a great solution for our family as well as our business to do our giving. we highly recommend them. you may never have heard of the ncf. let me tell you something about them. the national christian foundation has been a driving force behind legislation many of us find discriminatory. funding groups that support anti-choice legislation, opposing marriage equality, and denying climate change. remember a few weeks ago when arizona governor jan brewer

vetoed a bill that would have allowed businesses to reject services to gay and lesbian customers? well, the ncf was responsible for funding the two groups that actually brought that piece of legislation and similar versions have been proposed in 13 other states. in addition to speaking out in favor of the ncf, salon reports hobby lobby was among the biggest donors to the organization. you know, it seems to me that as folks behind the retail chain claim their religious freedoms are being infringed, their dollars are ending up in the pockets of groups that actively work to deny rights to others. joining me now, laura basset and eli cliffton. eli is a reporting fellow with the investigative fund at the nation institute. the nation institute is a nonprofit media center dedicated to strengthening the independent press. welcome to you both. eli, i want to start with you.

give us a sense of how this works. you sort of have the national christian foundation. that's just one piece of this network of organizations. >> right. well, the national christian foundation, as i tried to show, serves as the pass through. they collect the money, which then goes out to a vast network that seeks to promote, it would seem in this case, a right-wing christian agenda. both at the state level through bills such as sb-1062 in arizona as well as through the court system for cases such as the hobby lobby case. now, the interesting thing, as you just showed there, is when we look at, well, where does the money to national christian come from? we never knew. it served as this big monolith, this funding source. now we know that hobby lobby and hobby lobby executives are the largest source of funding to this massive donor advised fund. >> got it. i want to take a look at some of

the other ultraconservative initiatives that the center for arizona policy is behind. that's the one behind 1062. they're also a recipient of funds from the national christian foundation. they are -- let's see. since its 1995 establishment, 123 measures have been signed into law, including initiatives supported -- prohibiting same-sex marriage statute, requiring an ultrasound to be u conducted before an abortion. i want to look at the alliance defending freedom, another one of the groups. they are responsible in the case of coakleyv. mccullen, which would change the laws around abortion clinics. so laura, it does seem that the funding seems to go to organizations with a fairly specific right-wing agenda. >> that's right. what i think is interesting is

that hobby lobby has said over and over with regard to this case against the contraception mandate, this is not about trying to infringe on women's rights. all we're trying to do is just not have to pay for contraception because we're religiously opposed to it. it's not about this other parade of horribles that people keep bringing up, the arizona anti-gay bill among other things. in reality, hobby lobby is funding groups that actually get these bills into law, mandatory ultrasound bills, as you mentioned, abstinence only education. those bills are not about religious freedom. rather, they're about an extreme group trying to impose their religious beliefs on other people. >> it's interesting because they would say it is under the guise of religious freedom. according to one of the group's websites, they're working toward the spread of the gospel by transforming the legal system and advocating for religious liberty, the sanctity of life, marriage, and family. so it does seem like they do see part of their mission as, you know, getting laws put into place and then fighting laws

that they feel don't support their beliefs. >> well, let's look at the contraception mandate. what it does is forces women to have a medically unnecessary procedure, whether the doctor recommends it or not, whether the woman wants it or not. in order to convince her not to have an abortion. so where's the freedom there? >> also, eli, these other initiatives that they're involved in, again, in those other cases, they're using religious liberty as the the underlying excuse. >> exactly. i mean, and just to look more closely at hobby lobby once again, this is a company that says they run their company based off of biblical principles. and that in and of itself shouldn't be a problem for anybody. >> sure. >> the problem here, and where i think that a lot of this agenda is driving towards, is seeking to impose their religious beliefs on others by seeking either to challenge in this case, you know, a federal law through the affordable care act

or passing legislation at the state level that would legalize discrimination against gays and lesbians or in the case of the invasive ultrasound test, imposing these policies on women. i think that the trend here isn't just their desire to practice their religion in an unhindered situation. it's that they want to impose their agenda on people who work for them, who want to go into their stores, and for that matter to support that agenda in state where is there's other plaintiffs who want to take these cases on. >> laura, it strikes me, i wonder what the reaction would be if this case was a muslim company that said, we would like to require women to wear veils because that is within our religious beliefs. i think we'd be having a very different conversation. >> you're right. we would. as we did with the arizona anti-gay law. republicans and democrats united together against this bill and thought it was a really bad bill

and the republican governor vetoed it because people don't necessarily agree with allowing businesses to discriminate against an entire subset of people. somehow, hobby lobby has changed the discussion here to say, oh, we're not discriminating against our 26,000 employees who won't get the same benefits as the rest of the country. we're just a mom and pop christian organization trying not to pay for contraceptives. i think they've done a great job trying to change the conversation. >> and just changing the conversation a little bit, one of the things i keep wondering about, laura, we're also not really talking much about how insurance companies pay for things like viagra or pumps. other types of instruments. so it's perfectly all right to do those kinds of things. yet, when it comes to contraception for women, which as we know many women use contraception not necessarily for family planning. for some it's migraines. there's a range of health reasons that a woman might do so. and yet, there's that double standard when it comes to, you know, men's health and women's health. >> well, you're right.

birth control versial at all. we're talking about democrats, republicans, catholics, all subsets of women have used birth control. and what a lot of people don't point out is hobby lobby's objection to birth control is they believe it is abortion. this is a view that is not supported by science. and it's not supported by the medical community. somehow, the supreme court is allowing them to take this view that birth control is abortion. it's like arguing that apples are oranges and therefore you're not going to serve apples. >> it is a very interesting case. we shall keep at it to see how it turns out. thank you, laura and eli. before we go, we want to bring you the latest on the search for malaysia airlines flight 370. a after a fruitless weekend that turned up only trash and other debris, a new vessel is joining the search. an australian warship equipped with a black box detoke to be. as the battery winds down on flight 370's flight data recorder, time is of the essence. we'll bring you more updates on

flight 370 as we get them. so keep it right here on msnbc. and that does it for me. thanks so much for joining us. i will see you here next weekend at 4:00 p.m. have a great week. marge: you know, there's a more enjoyable way to get your fiber. try phillips fiber good gummies. they're delicious, and a good source of fiber to help support regularity. wife: mmmm husband: these are good! marge: the tasty side of fiber. from phillips. don't worry! the united states postal service will get it there on time with priority mail flat rate shipping. ♪ whoo-hoo! ♪ [ male announcer ] our priority has always been saving the day. because our priority... amazing! [ male announcer ] ...is you! the amazing spider-man 2 delivered by the united states postal service.

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