you don't elevate an illegal camping case to a use of deadly force. jim cavanaugh and micah mccoy, thank you both for joining me tonight. >> thanks, lawrence. >> thank you. dynasty. let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. and let me start tonight with the coming dynastic struggle between hillary clinton, and jeb bush and the former governor of florida. it's the lynn package ins as much as the resumes of the two candidates that either excites or disturbs the country's most politically sensitive citizenry. the plausibility of facing a november 2016 choice between the spouse of one recent president

and the brother and son of two recent presidents. what will it look like to historians and those who read history, i have to wonder, to see such bunching of these familiar family names around the turn of the 21st century. was the country so enamor to have had clintons and the bushes as our country's top leaders that they couldn't quite resist them? well, enamored of course is not the general attitude. ask most people about bill clinton, for example, and you'll get a knowing smile that nose all, certainly expects all things about him and comes out in the main on his side. but let's face it, only in the main. when all facets are examined and added, ultimately and after reflection, yeah, he was a pretty good president, all considered. on the bushes, the need for reflective consent has taken longer. george sr. does incredibly well in recent polls. people seem to like his handling of the deficit, even as he paid a price for raising taxes. they like his decency, and let's face it, his old money class over the years. as for w., well, he showed a novel and mush appreciated

degree of it the last five years by simply absorbing the time honored protocol of getting the heck out of the way. his retreat back to texas is probably his most eloquent statement he could have made about the misconceived iraq war with their weird brew of hatred, mischief and god knows what else. as for w., there is as i said a quiet honesty in simply being quiet about something that is clearly nothing to brag about. and so we march on to the very real possibility now that a republican party needy in its center will turn, as surely the democrats now intend to a favored family that at least makes it feel clean and still somewhat noble. and of course comfortably republican. joining me is republican strategist john feehery and "washington post" opinion writer and msnbc contributor jonathan capehart. i never thought i would come to it so fast. by the way, happy st. patrick's day. >> thank you, thank you. >> to see the front page of your paper, jonathan, of "the

washington post" pumping up the story that looks like jeb is getting into this darn thing amount. that means hillary and jeb could be the contenders of the 2016 election. let's talk about the republican side. what is the allure of jeb bush? >> the republican establishment likes royalty. nothing says royalty more than bush. i think the challenge for jeb bush is he is going to have to establish his own identity apart from his father and apart from his brother. that's going to be a challenge because the bush name is still toxic still. that's true. the other thing, he can win the money game. so that's going to help him. >> it seems to me there is a demand. the republican party knows they cannot put out a field of rick santorum, rand paul, mike

huckabee. they don't have a convincing big name centrist republican now that christie's got his problems. >> well, yes. and what jeb bush brings is as you were saying, he is someone who is known. when he and then governor george bush ran for governor in texas, they both ran for governor at the same time, jeb in florida. jeb was the one everyone thought would win. >> and then the family did. >> well, yeah. so now you got the money people who are looking for someone who is not a crazy ideologue, who is not so far to the right that they can't win the white house. i think if anything, you've got the money people who are hungering. >> and where was jeb this weekend? jeb was out at the money thing. anyway, they said the front page "washington post" article that grabbed me over the weekend, headline, "influential republicans working to draft bush, jeb bush into the 2016 presidential race." it zeroed in on this as the

heart of the situation, "concerned that the george washington bridge traffic scandal has damaged new jersey governor chris christie's political standing and alarmed by the stunning rise of senator paul of kentucky, prominent donors, conservative leaders and longtime operatives say they consider bush the gop's brightest hope to win back the white house." >> right. that was the last point i was making is that -- correct me if i'm wrong, but i think the republican money people and especially the republican establishment, they hunger to win back that building that's behind you. they want to win the white house. it's not enough -- >> if they lose this to hilary clinton -- and my view is these big money guys who have some much clout in your party, still, they're thinking, "who could i get my wife to vote for against hilary clinton?" that would be the stand -- 'cause half the money is the wife's money, too. and so he's thinking, who can i sell my wife -- life happiness on, then i'm pushing somebody. they can't push someone who isn't seen as at least pro-women to some extent. like jeb seems to be a modern man in many ways.

>> well, jeb also can help you with hispanic voters. he speaks spanish, his wife is hispanic and i think that helps. and he is a kinder, softer republican from the perspective -- >> his wife was born in mexico. >> right, exactly. from the perspective of paul or ted cruz. you know the other thing, jeb bush did govern as a conservative, so he has conservative credentials. now he's moved slightly away from that, but then again, the party has moved further away from the right. >> because he's pro-assimilation. he believes people can come to this country, be part of this country in a positive way. >> well, he's been on both sides of the immigration thing. he'll be a strong supporter of immigration. >> let me ask you about the democrats. if you're hilary clinton or bill clinton or one of the people around secretary clinton, and you're thinking, "well, the biggest knock on me, is going to be the same old same old." whoa, i got a solution. she gets to control it. is she smiling now the fact that we're talking bush? >> sure. think about it. they each have a knock against them. the republicans are going to

slam her through her husband. all the things that happened during the clinton administration, all the bad things that happened and what they can do, what the clinton people can do is hurl it back at them and say excuse me, but when bill clinton was president of the united states, he left your brother. >> it is fair to say that the clintons, especially -- well, bill and hillary together as a political team, which they are, have a positive, net positive impact historically, that given all the monica stuff and all the white house fundraising i didn't particularly like, they came out on top in terms of the economy and bill clinton still has good numbers coming out of the white house. and hillary clinton has very good numbers. compared to the bushes, do the bushes have a positive net in terms of public recognition? as a family? >> listen, i think bill clinton got lucky with it an economy expanding because of the dotcom leave losing. he left a lot of issues that george bush had to clean up, including a very diminished national security state.

and i think hillary clinton is vastly overrated as secretary of state. i think john kerry is actually showing how overrated she was. >> i'm saying, come on. >> those viewing the program have -- i understand your party. here to you the question is clinton is a positive. >> yeah. >> and the bushes? >> and the bushes i think -- >> positive for what? >> compared to the clintons in terms of running on record, putting the families' records up against each other, i think the clintons come out better because the people who are going to be going to the polls are the people who are going to remember or grew up. >> who else can beat hillary clinton? i think she is going to be formidable. not unbeatable, but formidable. who can beat her? >> i really like john kasich. >> can he rise? >> i think he can rise. i think he can beat hillary clinton on a debating point. i think that he has a good track record. and i think he is someone who can punch back. and he is also not part of

washington. the problem with both bush and clinton and they're so part of washington. >> is he the full package? is he marry and everything? >> the whole nine yards. >> the tea party crowd takes a dim view of bush. on saturday, co-founder of the tea party patriots, mark meckler discounted many of the republican aspirants who were out in las vegas this week and courting mega donor sheldon adelson. let's listen. >> each of these folks has their weaknesses if you ran them by a tea party litmus test. i don't think anybody has an appetite for a third bush presidency. i don't think we're looking for a dynasty. thinking party, now, back to you, first of all to you, john, will your party run an establishment figure in '16 or a tea partier? >> i think they'll run establishment because that's where the money is going to be. but it's going to be a real problem to activate that base. that's a real challenge for jeb bush. common core, he really goes against the tea party. and somehow he has to figure out how to bring them back into the fold so they actually turn up and vote.

>> so could they there be a bush/rand paul ticket? >> could be. >> oh my god. look, the problem that jeb bush is going to have is this guy. >> it's better than bush/ted cruz. >> well, yeah, okay. but -- yes, not by much. but jeb bush's problem is going to be, as you said, ginning up the enthusiasm within the republican party base to get him the nomination. i think jeb bush in a general election would be a formidable candidate against hillary clinton. but that's the problem that the republican party has right now. >> their best candidates can't get -- >> our biggest problem is, we keep saying that. but people didn't turn out for mitt romney against barack obama. you need to have a candidate that can appeal. >> you also have -- you still have one sane state, new hampshire. after all the craziness in iowa, the craziness, there is one state that tends to pick somebody who makes some kind of sense, historically. any way, thank you, john feehery. you're a cheerful cheerleader. and jonathan capehart, a tough, tough analyst. coming up, one more reason people are skeptical about that

report aimed at clearing chris christie. lawyer randy mastro. does that sound like an independent investigator or defense lawyer? vegas buyers club. vegas is sin city, the perfect setting for the parade of republicans who humiliatingly showed up and actually showed some leg this weekend to try to separate sheldon adelson from some of his billions. and the good news about the new health care law. enrollment is actually spiking above expectations. now the bad news. it remains unpopular. the test for democrats obviously figure out how to turn the plan's growing success into votes, especially this november. speaking of the health care law, we know president obama has been using social media to spread the word. well, this weekend "saturday night live" had its own idea about what the white house could do to spread the word. get help from the pope. >> all right. now, for this next video, it's going to be a video. we want to see you both dancing.

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former president jimmy carter was a guest on realtime with bill maher friday. here is how it played out. >> what do you think about hillary clinton running for president? >> i don't think there is much doubt she is going to. i think she'll be very elected to win. >> still a politician. sounds like she's got support. did you hear that crowd? that hbo crowd certainly likes her. we'll be right back. 

listen, the facts are the facts, melissa. read the report. i mean, you know, they can't make up facts. and i've read the report. every one of the factual

assertions they make in the report is footnoted, end noted, backed up by documentary evidence or testimonial evidence that they got from interviews. i mean, that just can't be manufactured. >> welcome back to "hardball" that was governor chris christie on friday, taking on the press by doubling down on a report commissioned by his own administration which proclaims his innocence, his honesty, his integrity. the report has been soundly criticized in the press for lacking thoroughness and objectivity. as reporters continue to comb through the thousands of pages of supporting material, they're uncovering documents which contradicts some of the report's own conclusions and narratives. as "the bergen record" reports, quote, in the thousands of pages of footnotes and exhibits released thursday, many documents appear to lend at least some credence to allegations against christie, that the report plainly said can't be true. we'll get so some of those here in a moment. but yesterday the report's author randy mastro was defiant when george stephanopoulos

challenged him about the report's use of questionable evidence, including the outing of a personal relationship between bridget kelly and bill stepien. here is mastro. >> we had no incentive to do anything other than to get to the truth. and i have to say this. for skeptics out there, there are some who have a visceral reaction to this bridge controversy. it reminds me of the movie line "they can't handle the truth." we believe we got to the truth, george. >> yeah, didn't quite explain why he brought up a personal matter. kendall coffey is a u.s. attorney and heather haddon is a reporter for "the wall street journal." thank you so much. heather, our producers i have to credit around here went around and dug up interesting quotes. what you come across in the full report some of this tough guy stuff, if you will. i don't know if bullying is the right word in politics, but it shows where drewniak and stepien, these guys all close to the governor, even his press secretaries, his campaign manager talking about how they're going to rough up people

like mayor zimmer if she doesn't play ball. it just seems they're sending the word out there all the time or wildstein they're going to pour gasoline in his skull, through his eye sockets. i mean, this is "the sopranos" talk. >> yes. >> and it's not exactly inconsistent with "time for some traffic problems in for lee." >> yeah, we went through all 4,000 pages of the exhibits, and there are some really interesting tidbits in there that you don't get by reading the report itself. one of the things that came out that you're referring to is some campaign e-mails. so one interesting thing right in the beginning is they talk about a target list of democrats that they were looking to woo and court for endorsements. and when we've reported on this before, the campaign was very careful to say that democrats endorsed them voluntarily. this would seem to indicate there is at least some effort to really get these endorsements. >> this is key. this is key that there was in

fact a backdrop to why people like bridget kelly and wildstein would try to punish or push or whatever, manipulate the mayor of fort lee. here it is. the master report rejects any notion there was a culture of retaliation. but documents deep within the report raise questions. in one we learn christie's campaign did keep a list of approved targets. these were democratic mayors they wanted to endorse the governor, including fort lee mayor mark sokolich. >> right, right. >> and then this july conversation where christie's campaign manager bill stepien writes to mike duhaime, quote, we're approaching a point in time where we have the so what it's going to be conversation with hoboken mayor dawn zimmer and jersey city mayor steve fulop. the argument that there was no evidence that the governor was after the marry or ready to push him there is there now. we have it.

>> randy mastro has said with this report they're draw nothing conclusions as to why mark sokolich, the mayor of fort lee was argued the. but democrats have talked to today, you know, they've certainly made note of that target list. and i think this is something that they're going to be pursuing and questioning if and when they start calling in people to testify and take testimony. why was it developed and what role does it have in fort lee. >> you know, kendall, it took decades for those of us who dug up a lot of this stuff in the archives to find out richard nixon's role in watergate. there has never been any evidence he ordered that particular break-in. but he ordered so many other break-ins of the brookings institution. he ordered specifically different times of night, who he wanted to do it. he talked about the whole details, about how he wanted somebody to break into the republican national headquarters to make it look like a democratic job. the m.o. was there. the culture was there.

and what i'm getting in reading these notes in the report put out by mastro, of all people, is that kind of backdrop, the we're going to get the mayor, we're going to push this guy, pour gasoline in his skull, take out his eye sockets. the language is "the sopranos" tough guy, worse than that perhaps. your thoughts. >> the tough guy image is inconsistent with the theme that this governor didn't do anything to in any way suggest a culture of payback or reward. and probably the report didn't need to go that far. you think about it, chris, that's really a difficult thing to prove across the board with so many cities and moving pieces and parts in a state like new jersey. if it had been a more focused report, i think there could be less controversy about it. for example, if they said we've interviewed 70 people. we've looked at 250,000 documents. five we couldn't interview. they're obviously very important.

but we haven't found any indication that chris christie was personally complicit in bridgegate that would have been something that i think could have been helpful for christie in a lot of respects. >> very narrow. >> to receive credibly. >> very narrow defense. >> it's very narrow. but now they're getting into speculating about the motive for bridget kelly. and that's provoked a firestorm of controversy. they're trying to give sort of a broad bit of immunity for everything from anything about a culture of bullying to the controversy about hoboken and dawn zimmer who has said repeatedly that under oath she would back up what she said. i think it's pretty hard to be dismissive without a whole lot of fact finding on something like that. i think the report by dismissing that allegation may be set itself up to look more like a chris christie document than a truly objective independent counsel's document. >> that always hits me the hardest of all these stories, heather and kendall, talk about the sort of lieutenant governor coming in saying i wish it wasn't this way. it had real credibility.

i wish it wasn't this way, but the governor told me last night if you don't back this project that he cares about on the waterfront, you ain't getting any money from the government. let's look at another conversation that is buried in the supporting documents of the national report that we just mentioned. in january, christie's spokesman michael drewniak sends a colorful text message to a friend which reads "the only trouble is david wildstein is/was a true friend of mine. now i could claw his eyes out, pour gasoline in the sockets and light him up." well, if that ever went before a jury, i don't know, heather, i just wonder, i don't think you can get that image out of your head of the kind of frightening vengeance to even think theatrically i'm going to fill his head with gasoline. >> michael drewniak was referenced with some of the documents earlier. there is also some colorful language there in terms of how he referred to reporters and

talking about this issue within the administration. so, again, i expect, you know, democrats are going to make note of that. i think also really coming back to the relationship issue with bill stepien and bridget kelly, which is referenced in the report -- >> did he ever explain it? did he ever justify to it anybody whether it was george stephanopoulos or anybody why he would bring in not even tangential, just sitting out there not explaining if a relationship if it occurred between those two people would be relevant? >> randy mastro was asked about this during friday during the press conference. he says it relates to the state of mind of bridget kelly at the time, that according to him that the relationship had broken up and therefore they weren't talking as much, her and bill stepien, and she was out of the loop in some sense, and maybe she was acting on her own. >> it wasn't to make her look loopy? >> well, democrats i talked to today are really fixating on that.

and they really think that that stands out as a point that is gratuitous. and when you look at the document, there is no footnotes or notation there that it's based on an interview. and that gets back to the points that they're making now is they want the 70 people who they interviewed released. they want those names. they also want the transcripts of the testimony and those interviews released. and i believe that they are going to issue, potentially issue subpoenas for those, because they say that there is a lot of unanswered questions from that document. >> i got an argument for them. it's state property. that could be an argument. and therefore they should release it. kendall, is that a good argument? all the background information by randy mastro was done at the government's expense. therefore it would seem that the legislature would have the entitlement to demand it would be publicized and released. >> every document, ever interview, and they're going to push for the notes, because of course there is a lot of work product that goes into creating a report on that.

they're going to insist on that. and i think the issues about the report's unfortunate reference to bridget kelly and her relationship is it centers on a big weakness in the report. what is the motivation here? if in fact nobody in a higher up position knew anything about this, if in fact there was no sort of tacit culture of encouragement for tough stuff politically, then why on earth does bridget kelly and wildstein cook up this steam? it doesn't make sense. and this is the big weakness in the report. it doesn't have a plausible hypothesis of motive. and if you can't answer and even compellingly suggest the why, then it's just that much harder to be convinced that you know what happened. >> just it's so well said there. i never thought of that before. but having worked in politics. because it's something you think the boss would like to have done, even if he didn't want to know about it. that's to me a culture of we all work for good, better, evil. but that's politics.

you always do something that you think the boss would like, even if he didn't like it being done, he knew it had to be done. you do things in his interest or her interest. thank you, kendall coffey, and at his direction too usually. heather haddon, thanks from "the wall street journal." president obama, i'm not sure i like this sacrilegious stuff here, but to help spread the word about the health care law. what if a photo were more than a memory? what if it were more than something to share? what if a photo could build that shelf you've always wanted? or fix a leaky faucet?

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chris christie's legal team released a report written by chris christie's legal team that said he had absolutely no role in the george washington bridge. you know what? if you believe this, there is a movie that came out today called "noah's ark" that you might enjoy. >> time for the sideshow. that was bill maher on the review of the chris christie george washington bridge scandal.

next up, the obama administration is making a final push to get people to sign up for health care before the final deadline tonight. but folks on "saturday night live" came up with a few more ways the president could use social media to boost enrollment in the last stretch. here is one of them. >> okay, sir. i think if i think if you trust, she'll get you at least ten million new signups on healthcare.gov in the next 48 hours. >> great. so what do we need to do. >> and he is hot right now, the pope. so let's get him in here, your holiness. >> you got pope francis? >> we got -- he loves affordable health care. thank you so much for coming. >> no problemo. >> all right. now, for this next video, it's going to be a vine video. we want to see you both dancing the nene. all right? hit it. >> i don't know. i don't think we should -- ♪

>> and, okay, got it. >> i don't think so. anyway, next up, toronto mayor rob ford is in a tough fight for reelection. it seems his drinking and crack smoking might be catching up with him, politically at least. a new group called no ford nation has mocked him by creating several fake candidates of dubious character because they say anyone is better than rob ford. here is an example, quote. elect jeff macelroy. he promises to just smoke pot. the current mayor threatens to kill people and get publicly drunk. if elected i will just get publicly drunk. vote for ray faranzi. a republicans line up for a bite off of sheldon adelson's billions. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.

welcome back to "hardball." was the biggest spectacle in las vegas this weekend. casino mogul sheldon adelson held his own personal primary, and four republican candidates, really big shots showed up to vie for his affection. chris christie, jeb bush, scott walker, and john kasich were ostensibly in las vegas to attend a meeting of the

republican jewish coalition. but they all also met privately with the billionaire republican and would-be king maker. they also played to him shamelessly. "the washington post" dan balz put it this way. how warped a system for financing election has become. the scene at vegas at times seemed to take on an air of the ridiculous. and was all focused on one man, sheldon adelson. ken vogel was there. he wrote, as adelson whizzed around his venetian king doll on a motorized scooter he was often trailed by gop operatives, politicians and fellow donors eager to assess his state of mind, advise him on what he should do, or just lavish him with praise and gratitude. ken vogel joins me right now and joshua green, senior national correspondent for bloomberg and business week. made a comeback with all this choose me action. >> this is very emblematic of the new politics where sheldon adelson can and did in 2012 totally up-end the republican

party. >> because he kept people in the race who wouldn't be in the race like newt? >> absolutely. so republican elites are nervous that that's going to happen again. so they're pleased to see him inviting out vegas to schmooze with him. >> if you need any reminder who was really the focus of intent this week, take a look at ohio governor john kasich. he is addressing the entire group, but one name seemed to be on the tip of his tongue. >> sheldon and i were kind of talking about his background. >> say sheldon and i owned a restaurant together. so in ho, we're no longer fly-over, sheldon. hey, listen, sheldon, thanks for inviting me. >> oh my god, it's like a command performance with the queen. >> and it's necessary for these guys.

it's smart for them if they actually want to run for president, they need to have either sheldon adelson or folks like him on their side. >> do you know him very well? >> publicly, he likes -- >> here is the only thing you need to know. most people don't like it that overt. >> he is the tenth richest guy in the world according to bloomberg. >> by the end, macau with the cash registers zinging out there. apparently there were roulette tables and crap tables in macau, he makes three times what he makes in vegas. no matter how much he gives away in next presidential cycle, he'll be richer attend of it. >> last time he gave away $93 million. >> and it's unique in that he will weigh in a republican primary where as a lot of the guys are more cautious. >> the koch brothers like to have influence and power. they don't mind people knowing it generally, but they won't answer any questions. what happened when you tried to enter the sanctum out there and tried to watch this thing going on? >> there were in fact some

public events like the speech you saw as well as christie and some of the other governors. however, most of it was behind closed doors. >> didn't stop you did it? >> i tried to crash. >> what is it like physically? do you walk through a door that is open and you got ahold of adelson, and he said? >> i asked him what he was going to go in 2016. he said how did you get in here? it was private. it was and they had every right to escort me out, which of course they did. but it was sort of this scene where you had all these fellow donors who were queued up to talk to him, to pick his brain. these republicans are frighten what he is going to do. it was the republican coalition jewish board meeting to discuss their plans for 2014 and for some extent 2016. >> we've had clement stone, remember, you don't remember in the watergate days there has always been some name for it. now it's the koch brothers that you put them on movies because they become the iconic bad guys. >> they become the iconic bad guys. but the laws have also changed

in a way that make these billionaires much more influential. >> you don't have to bundle? >> you don't have to bundle. running for president today is a billion dollar proposition. if you got a guy like sheldon adelson, he is essentially an atm. these candidates have to be out here as unseemly and tacky as it is to be rattling the tin cup in front of this billionaire, this is what you have to do if you want to run for president. >> he has less than a tenth of a billion? anyway, chris christie was one of the potential 2016 contenders, these choose me guys out to address the republican jewish coalition and sheldon adelson personally. the new jersey governor caused some stir in the crowd when he referred to the west bank. i thought this was not a problem. but he called the occupied territory. let's watch what happened. >> i took a helicopter ride from the occupied territories across. and just felt personally how extraordinary that was to understand the military risk that israel faces every day.

>> one person in that event tried to correct mr. christie after he left the stage, according to "the new york times." he suggested the governor use the term "disputed territory." but christie only scowled at him. in fact, later according to nbc news, christie did apologize to adelson for using the phrase "occupied territory." i remember tom delay when he was really sucking up to ring wing people about the middle east. he said when i flew over the occupied, i didn't see no occupied territory, i just saw israel. of course it is disputed. of course it is occupied. but the fact you have to get your phrase just right in front of this crowd or you're dismissed? not everybody is on the hard right on middle east politics? thinking crowd certainly is. this is a fault line that christie should have been aware. and i think it is illustrative -- >> judea assume -- i thought it was illustrative that right after that you have martin klein go up and try to correct him. and he dismissed the guy.

but a couple of hours later he apologized profusely. >> u.s. policy under w. who was certainly a hawk and very pro-israeli and right wing on the topic was for a two-state solution. sheldon adelson does not accept that even as a premise. he doesn't accept the idea of giving the land back to anybody in the separate state. so when he says disputed you got to talk the language, walk the talk here or talk the walk. >> you need to know and that and speak accordingly. >> so what is the exercise, if it's to learn the lingo, learn the phraseology. who can decide whether you get ready cash, as you said. their atm window is open for service. >> the real event this weekend wasn't the public speeches. it wasn't even the board meeting that ken crashed. it was the private meetings.

each of these guys had one-on-one with adelson to lay out how they view things, what their strategy is to the white house. >> why would people that haven't even announced their running yet scuttling out there like jeb who i think he is getting damn close to announcing at some point, and kasich who is an outsider. why do they go here before they're even ready to say i'm rung? >> this is the new politics. this is the critical bit of foundation-laying for a presidential campaign. used to be you would have to go to living rooms and rec centers in iowa and new hampshire. now you find your sugar daddy. once you nail that down, then you can do the other more traditional. >> the sheldon adelson primary and the iowa caucuses both? are they mutually exclusive? >> rand paul is not going to win the sheldon primary. i guarantee you that because of his foreign policy views. but i guess in theory someone could. it's going to be tough with the conservatives in iowa. >> whoever -- will never be elected president of the united states. >> that's another story. >> thank you, ken vogel. good work, the physical stuff,

joshua. up next, enrollment for the new health care law is spiking, believe it or not. now democrats need to turn that growing success into votes this november especially. this is "hardball," the place for politics. i had to do something. i saw my doctor. a blood test showed it was low testosterone, not age. we talked about axiron the only underarm low t treatment that can restore t levels to normal in about two weeks in most men. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18 or men with prostate or breast cancer. women, especially those who are or who may become pregnant, and children should avoid contact where axiron is applied as unexpected signs of puberty in children or changes in body hair or increased acne in women may occur. report these symptoms to your doctor. tell your doctor about all medical conditions and medications. serious side effects could include increased risk of prostate cancer, worsening prostate symptoms, decreased sperm count, ankle, feet or body swelling, enlarged or painful breasts, problems breathing while sleeping

and blood clots in the legs. common side effects include skin redness or irritation where applied, increased red blood cell count, headache, diarrhea, vomiting, and increase in psa. ask your doctor about axiron. republican congressman dave camp, chairman of the powerful ways and means committee will not run for reelection. his office has confirmed to nbc news.

the house now has 23 members who have announce they'd will not seek reelection in november -- 13 republicans and ten democrats. we'll be right back.

i think success looks like at least seven million people having signed up by the end of march 2014. >> that was of course health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius forecasting what a success might look like for the affordable care act before the disastrous roll-out that was her back then. but the first roll-out period for the law ends at midnight tonight, in just over four hours. and so far more than six million

people have enrolled in health care, the health care under the state and federal exchanges. it's possible the final number could be close to seven million by tomorrow, helped by a last-minute spike in enrollments. as signups for the health care law surge, the unknown still loom. how much will premiums rise this year? the penalties for not signing up actually be paid? are working people signing up? i think success looks like at least 7 million people having signed up by the end of march

institute. nia-malika henderson is a reporter with the "washington post," as you were not too long ago. i want to talk to c.c., then the reporter, nia. is this thing working the way most people on the progressive side wanted it to work, meaning to get people enrolled who work every day but don't have health care? is the plan enrolling people like that? >> in the early going, definitely not. that was very distressing to the supporters of this legislation, chris. more recently, there are indications they're now reaching the uninsured. great researching, "the new york times," this morning, millions of people getting health insurance that didn't have it previously. new york and kentucky are saying 70% to. 5 of their enrollees are newly insured. >> nia, the interesting thing the president didn't do, he didn't sell this health care thing. he did it because he'd argue things like pre-existing conditions and your kids get covered until they're 26 to meet

the middle class, comfortable middle class. he didn't ever sell it for working people, right at the line of having a job but not health insurance. this number we're hearing now, close to 10 million, begin to take down the 40 million we talk about on the liberal side of things not covered? will this get pay dirt, the base, if you will? >> possibly. you're right. this is administration who never knew how to sell this. was it about the responsibility that government had to give people health care? was it about an economic argument? and they never really argument also, "b" this would be a program that would expand medicaid and give people in the states that wanted to expand medicaid, give them that plan as well. so they have to figure out how to sell this, but i think for democrats, there's sort of a national narrative about this that "washington post" poll finally showing that more people like it than don't. there's a national story, then

there's a state-by-state story, democrats running in these tough races are going to have to figure out a way to sell this and message this. you have bill clinton on the one hand, going, right, go for it and embrace obamacare. row have some people saying hang a lantern on your problem and essentially argue you want to amend it and not end it. >> that's a bobby kennedy phrase. i love that one. hang a lantern on your problem is bobby's phrase. here's the question. if you look at all social advances it this country, i argue liberalism wins eventually. whether women's rights, abolition, gay rights, equal marriage equality. it always ends up winning eventually. that's just the way the country rolls. my question is, will the country roll in that direction on health care? will it eventually say, it was a pain in the butt, but, you know, we're better with it. >> well, if we learned anything from history, chris, we know people do tend to adjust and adapt to new government programs. as you well know, medicare was not terribly popular when it was

first enacted. >> my dad ended up loving it. >> you go and ask a senior, they say, keep your hands off of my medicare. >> keep the government out of it. >> absolutely. absolutely. so we've seen that many times over and i don't think it should surprise us if a few years from now, it's simply a part of the fabric. >> let's talk women, for example. because, nia, you cover women, especially. i'm trying to think about in health and families, and this is an old person's -- this is a reality. in health, the wife often is better knowing what shots the kids have had, aware of her older parents, his older conditions if they're married. health conditions. they're focused on this. is this a big issue with women voters? in perpetuity. >> that's right. it will be a big issue. you also see republicans very much using women as the face of their opposition to obamacare. look at the afp ads, americans for prosperity, are featuring women, particularly white working class women. so for republicans they feel

like it cuts two ways when it come to women voters. >> time will tell. that's a huge line. i'm taking a wait and see attitude toward this, martin. an old washington reference. thank you, ceci. nia-malika henderson always for your expertise. we'll be right back.

let me finish tonight with governor christie. his administration's lawyer, randy mastro says we can't handle the truth. well, that charge, sir, can go both ways.

a couple of facts that predate the governor's legal team's report remain important here. one, these people involved in the bridge closures since september are christie people. they appear to represent the kind of people he feels comfortable with. they were at the time of this travesty, after all, his governmental agents there to carry out his political purposes. what does this say about him to be out there now calling these people of his stupid? dishonest. whatever. second, there is the declaration by mayor zimmer of hoboken she was confronted by the lieutenant governor armed with an ultimatum from the governor that if the mayor didn't play ball on a waterfront development, she would be aced out of money for flood assistance. the master report, itself, contains similar evidence of tough guy behavior. campaign manager bill stepien's demand that mayor zimmer get with the program or be dumped out of the way. press secretary michael duniak's text message he'd like to pour gasoline into david wildstein's eye sockets. these do sound like the kind of talk you'd connect with "time

were some traffic problems in ft. lee", wouldn't you agree? in fact, the smell of this administration may be worse than what you can clearly see. what we may never be able to see. and that said the faster we get the full truth behind that smell, the better. then we will see who can or cannot deal with the truth. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm steve kornacki in for chris hayes tonight. we begin with news about the man who was identified as a key independent eyewitness into the investigation of chris christie that we saw last week. that was the investigation conduct by lawyers hired by chris christie and purportedly clears chris christie while simultaneously discrediting those who accused his administration of wrongdoing. this man, this witness, from a report, appeared on msnbc over the weekend at the suggestion of the christie administration.