all that we are not for sale, and we're not for intimidation. we must protect what others gave so much to begin to give us the right to have. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. money talks. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this supreme fiction that money is speech. if i'm one of the koch brothers and i spend a couple million dollars, say, out of my billions of dollars running tv ads and radio ads all over the country for various candidates throwing in the name, but saying the same old slogan, george smith or whoever, in the world of phonies, he is one regular guy. george smith, he is the genuine

article. he gets things done. he is one leader you can trust. show this different than running a coca-cola ad that says things go better with coke, its real thing? it's not about speech. everything knows what they think about coca-cola. the slogans don't tell you anything. they don't make a case really. they just imprint 234 your mind the existence of coke. they use a slogan that could mean anything or nothing. it simply reminds you and gets that name back into your head again. so much of political advertising is this kind of sloganeering. either that or smearing of the other candidate. how much of it is actual argument and actual speech the candidate himself or herself would actually say on the stump? most often they don't even repeat the ads when they get on television, they're so embarrassed to say this pap themselves. speech, first amendment? to repeat again and again in a saturated iowa caucus, to smother the airwaves with puffery of yourself and smearing of your rival is not really

speech. is that really protected by the first amendment? because if you really believe this, let me put to you a simple question. who wins a campaign between the candidate who has some sugar daddy paying for ads saying these simplistic things about him or her, about being the real thing or how great he connects with real people or how he is the genuine article in a world of phonies against a candidate who doesn't have a red cent to pay for the same kind of ads. who wins that race? and what is the difference between having the money and not having the money, even to put on the tear most meaningless slogans about someone not have to do with money itself? and what does visit to do with free speech? to paraphrase the guy nailed by abscam back in 1980, money talks. but why in the world should the supreme court of the united states give it the right to dominate and diminish our democracy? u.s. congresswoman donna edwards is a democrat from maryland. and john heilemann is an msnbc political analyst and co-author of "double down", the great new book on the 2012 race. john heilemann, you know

politics, its culture. what is this going to do now that some old ebenezer scrooge or charles koch can simply dig into his wallet, and it's a big wallet, and just spread money all around the country like it's a big roulette table. put money on every one of the numbers there is no limit. >> we're going to see a lot more of, that chris there is no doubt about it. we have seen over the last 40 years in american politics an increasing deregulation of money in politics and the privatization of politics. big money getting -- creeping further and further in on the back of an escalating series of supreme court decisions that have allowed that to happen. this one is just the next step in that sequence. and, you know, there are 646. only 646 out of 300 some odd million americans last year who ran up against the aggregate caps that were imposed on campaign spending. 646 people. those are the people who are now effectively going to be allowed to just spend that much more money. this is a relatively narrow slice of people.

and whatever you think about it, whether you think it's speech or not, there is no doubt that the power of that 646 people to be able to influence the course of american elections and to have access to the politicians that they elect is going to go up even more than it already has over the course of these past couple of decades. >> congresswoman, you represent a democratic district largely. and i think that's good for you. but what about people living in very swing districts in north carolina, for example, kay hagan is senator in that state, where somebody can pour in a bucketful of money from all over the country. say all 600 of these republicans decide they're going to give money to some candidate named tillis or somebody they don't know, really, down in north carolina and just blow away the election in terms of advertising. what happens then? what kind of democracy do you have? >> well, we don't have any. and i have to tell you, if the roberts court is going to leave a legacy, it's going to be a legacy of one that has really destroyed our democracy in elections if you look at this decision to the mccutcheon

decision, it blew the doors off. the fact is when you have only a handful of people out of millions of people in this country whoever even get to that limit, they've got all of the power and all of the control. and it is true. he who pays the piper plays the tune. in this case, 646 people are going to be playing the tune, and the rest of russ just there for the ride. >> chuck schumer, a top democrat launched the party's counterattack against yesterday's court ruling in the supreme court. let's listen. >> they wish to dismantle all limits on giving piece by piece until we are back to the days of the robber barons when anyone or anything could give unlimited money, undisclosed and make our political system seem so rigged that everyone will lose interest in our democracy. it seems to logical to every american that a limitation should be on the wealthiest of donors rigging our political

system. but somehow the supreme court, five of them, anyway, cling to this idea that putting the same dishonest commercial on television for the 4,111th time is a vital part of free speech. >> the same commercial over and over again that may will be dishonest. anyway, republicans are taking a victory lap. they are chuckling over this. here is what the rnc chair reince priebus who financed bringing this case to the supreme court and speaker john boehner had to say yesterday following the court's ruling. >> i think that we should all be free and exercise our first amendment rights. but this is a victory today for people who want to see political parties and candidates on the same playing field or a little bit closer to the same playing field as the first amendment was intended to allow us to be. >> what i think this means is that freedom of speech is being upheld. you all have the freedom to

write what you want to write. donors ought to have the freedom to give what they want to give. i'm all for freedom. congratulations. >> even ted cruz praised the ruling, say, quote, the supreme court decision is a victory for the first amendment. the restriction that the court struck down benefitted incumbent politicians by limiting the ability of americans to support as many candidates as they choose. by the way, here is a reason republicans might be celebrating among donors who hit the federal spending limits in 2012. 57% of their contributions went to republicans. that's according to the center for responsive politics. but it's not just the conservative koch brothers or sheldon adelson that stand to benefit. it's progressives too. for example, billionaire some steyer and george soros. this tilt towards the republicans, 57% of the money goes to the rs, to their candidates. that may not seem like a lot, but it's against 43%.

that's quite a spread, quite a gap. >> yeah, it's quite a gap, chris. and there is no doubt that when it comes to the realm of plutocrats in americans, there are more republicans than democrats. but it is true, as you mentioned, both sorrows and steyer. and there are plenty others on wall street. we've seen plenty of democrats playing this game. the plutocracy may be tilted towards the republicans, but it's a bipartisan class, and the democrats, starting with the president of the united states, who has raised more money more successfully at the presidential level than any candidate in either party from private interests, democrats have played this well pretty well. this is a systemic problem. it's a problem right now that benefits republicans. but it's a problem that both parties have nursed at this trough for a long time. and it's been a problem that has been building for a long time. >> well, congresswoman, here is the problem. and it's again like issues like minimum wage here. quite familiar with and passionate about. overwhelmingly, the american people, eight out of ten do not like this big money in politics. they'd like to see limits placed

on it. five out of nine, that means the supreme court, chuck schumer pointed that out. as long as five out of nine supreme court justices say it's okay to spend unlimited amounts of money, we have politicians in both parties going around to fundraisers. the president does it all the time, speaking only to fat cats. the only people allowed in the room are ones who spend a lot of money to get in the door. he talks to what they want to hear. and that means that interest group, if you will, of the fattest oligarchs in the country get the president to talk to them in their terms, and he has to listen to them. what does that do our democracy, the fact that the rich get to pay the piper, as you said? >> well, i mean, look, the fact is though that democrats at least -- even though we may play the game, we don't want to play this game. it's actually not good for democracy. it's not good for the little guy, when only less than 1% of the population even makes any political contribution at all that's even reportable, this is not really -- this isn't good

for us. and chris, what we've seen here is that the supreme court has ratcheted down, they're going after the individual limit. it's why i proposed a constitutional amendment. i don't think there is another way to do this. we have to turn this back because the little guy who is at home goes why can't we get minimum wage? because we have to fight an industry that is fighting minimum wage. why can't we get a focus on jobs? because all of our republicans and democrats spending all their time raising money on the phone instead of legislating. this really does impact democracy. and the american public actually gets it. we don't like this system. we want it -- the money that's in there to be disclosed. but more than that, we want that money out of there. because we know that there is only a handful of people, 646 if that's the number, who really play this game. and it's not good for the american people. >> well, you make the point that democrats don't like to play the game, but that's the game. anyway, after yesterday's ruling, democrats like chuck schumer and harry reid, the

senate leader opened fire on the conservative koch brothers who have become the face of the mega donors, the oligarchs out there. let's watch them in action. >> the koch brothers and other wealthy donors have already wreaked havoc on our political system. this decision and those that will follow it seems by the narrowest of margins, 5-4 will make the koch brothers' lives easier and americans' lives harder. >> the supreme court today just accentuated what they did on citizens united, which is a decision that is one of the worst decisions in the history of that court. all it does is take way people's rights because, as you know, the koch brothers are trying to buy america. >> well, today of course charles koch had someone write an op-ed for him in "the wall street journal." he is no writer. it's well written, of course, but not by him. here is the quote from the ghost writer. the central belief in fatal con seat of the current administration is that you are

incapable of running your own life, but those in power are capable of running it for you this. is the essence of big government and collectivism. john heilemann, collectivism. i guess if you disagree with the koch brothers wide open cowboy oil and gas industry decisions, you're a collectivist. >> well, that's, you know -- >> at least according to their ghost rider. >> it's kind of basically conservative boilerplate of this era. that's not that we don't hear all the time from conservatives among elected officials and among the conservative donor class. i don't have that big a problem with it. we can have that fight over the ideas in play here. but i do think that, you know, we are headed in a direction that is really uncharted. you think the supreme court, this is again not just a problem with citizens united in this most recent decision in mccutcheon. it goes back for 40 years. the court has trended in this direction. and now the roberts court, it looks like that a lot of supreme court watcher thinks we're going to have all limits to contributions blown away.

corporate donations, union donations across. we've already seen a flood of money. but we could easily see a series of decisions over the supreme court over the next decade that would even further deregulate. this is a big structural problem and maybe a constitutional amendment is the only way for those who think there is a problem here to deal with that. >> okay, congresswoman, thank you for joining me. just to put the whole joke in context. here we have "the wall street journal" owned by rupert murdoch, mr. republican. a op-ed comes out after the supreme court decision, ghost written for charles koch. who knows who writes this stuff for him. he pays for it as if he is literate. i would like to put that guy in a room for an hour and see if he could actually write an op-ed piece. thank you donna edwards of maryland and the great john heilemann. coming up, the blueprint that paul ryan put out this week. dick durbin put it best.

thank you, thank you, paul ryan for reminding us what republicans would do if they had control. plus truthers. they're the republicans that loved the enrollment figures when they were low. now that they're up, they're saying they are cooked. it's all a conspiracy. listen. >> everyone in the press, you rat bastards. every single one of you know what he is saying isn't true. >> hmm. also, the dog whistle that always gets conservatives barking and howling, benghazi! don't believe me? check out the show trial they put on yesterday. and i'm going to finish tonight on a national story, but close to home. yesterday kathleen led our family in interring our world war ii father-in-law at arlington national cemetery. it's my father-in-law, her father bob cunningham. a glorious honor. here she is receiving the flag from one of the impressive young marines.

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christie's approval ratings may have stabilize. but it's not because of that internal review he commissioned. according to a new monmouth university-asbury park poll, 51% of jersey residents approve christie's job performance. 41% disapprove. that's in line with what the poll found in february. but a majority of those polled say that report released last week by the firm christie hired was intended to help the governor's reputation. only three in ten new jerseyans say it was a fair and unbiased investigation. we'll be right back. [ engine tu] [ male announcer ] the 2014 nissan altima. with 270 horses... ♪ ...blind spot warning... ♪ ...and advanced drive assist. ♪ nothing beats an altima. except another altima. ♪ nissan. innovation that excites. ♪

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then add voice and tv for just $34.90 more per month. time to make the call. 800-501-6000 comcast business. built for business. welcome back to "hardball." if you need a reminder what the future of republican-controlled congress would actually look like, look no further than paul ryan's bleak new blueprint with the deceptively benign title the path to prosperity. when he predicted what robert bourque's america would look like, paul ryan's america,

millions who have health insurance would lose it. medicare is no longer a financial and medical bedrock for the elderly as he shifts to it a premium support model for future retirees. that's basically a voucher system that puts medicare on the path to privatization. paul ryan's america is a land that cuts medicaid for the needy and cuts food stamps for the hungry, and raises military spending. as i mentioned earlier, democratic senator dick durbin thanked ryan sarcastically for reminding voters what republicans would do if they had the power to do it. and democrats will make that harsh republican future of course a centerpiece of the fall campaign this november. joining me right now to prove it is the chair of the democratic congressional campaign committee steve israel of new york and my friend here, not u.s. anything, msnbc political analyst -- >> u.s. citizen. that's better than anything. let me go to congressman israel. your thoughts about this. because ryan, he is for real. he puts it out there, doesn't he? he says what they stand for, and you're smiling, because you want the country to know exactly what

paul ryan, his future looks like for us. >> the defining issue in any campaign, chris, is whose got your back. with this republican budget, house republicans are turning their backs on the middle class in order to stack the deck for the special interests. let me give you one very specific example. under this budget, if you're a college student, you begin paying interest on your student loan while you're in your classroom. that raises $40 billion for the treasury in this republican budget. you know what they do with that $40 billion? they transfer it to big oil companies in the form of subsidies. >> wait a minute. >> those are the wrong priorities. >> you're paying your principle and interest while you're still borrowing more money for sophomore year, whichever your parents or you can't afford. you're borrowing that, and at the same time you're paying it back? how does that work? >> you're borrowing it, you're paying it back. and this republican budget pays the oil companies that $40 billion that they raise from that one line item in the budget. this is line item after line item after line item of special giveaways and handouts to the

special interests and taking it from the middle class. . >> congressman, let's talk to the retired person. my dad loved medicare from the moment he met it. he fell in love with medicare. he liked somebody besides himself footing the bill for his medical costs when he got older. my question is how in the world can young paul ryan at his tender age of 40 something, how can he say that an 80-year-old person, a woman, perhaps a woman, they tend to live longer. suppose you're 80 some years old, you're elderly, and you're out there trying to find a health insurance policy for you, not for your kids, but for you. and you have to go on the market to get it. so you're handed a voucher. where is this person going to go find this? i'm making your case. but make it better. how does an older person find some insurance company to pick up their health cost misat their time in the life when health costs are the highest, and we all know it? >> this is paul ryan's sequel to the house republican plan to make medicare wither on a vine. here is what he does. he gives you a voucher.

that is going to be more costly. if you decide you want to stay in traditional medicare, your premiums go up 50%. 50%. and at the same time under this budget, they reopen the donut hole, which means you get hit with a $1200 additional bill for your prescription drugs. so once again, this budget is -- takes from seniors, takes from students, raises taxes on the middle class, raises out of pocket costs for seniors. and for what? to make the special interests more powerful. to reward the special interests. >> let's get to the catch-22 here. they're going to take this to the house floor? >> oh, yeah. >> they're going to get every republican up for reelection. and they're all up in the reelection in the house to put their name on it. >> a few probably won't, but they should have enough to pass it. >> the 50 that are in tricky districts that mr. israel is trying to knock them off, are they going to vote for it? >> maybe 25, 15. >> whatever. >> some of them may not because of the reasons he just put out. now, the republicans think that they have fought back to a draw on medicare because they made

the charge that obamacare squeezed $716 billion out of medicare. it did in terms of payments to hospitals and providers, not in terms of benefits. but they have kind ofs be leading on that. so they think they can fight back. but what ryan does is so cynical. this budget is not just wrong, it's incredibly cynical, is that he calls for repealing obamacare, but he still takes the $716 billion in medicare savings that he attacked obama for and he still puts it through here. and this is a guy who for the last two years has been going around saying i'm this anti-poverty, trying to be the jack kemp, remember, how jack kemp used to do this? and is just going to whack away at food stamps. >> let me get to the bottom line here. this show is about politics, not always about substance, but always about politics, congressman. how do you win with a legitimate fear of what the republicans would do if they got control of the congress and both houses and the presidency, of course, they get it all or as much as they can. how do you build the fire of

voters turning out against what they're offering right here in black and white against the anger people have -- you know what it, sort of the way things are right now. how do you build that case? the future against the present discontent, which is there? >> you do it with this budget, chris. you do it by reminding people who are sitting in more traffic and deeper potholes that the reason for that is this budget cuts over $50 billion from transportation, road improvement funding in order, again, to give tax cuts to people who are making over a million dollars. you do it by simply reminding people that in this budget, if you're in the middle class, your taxes go up $2,000. if you're making over a million dollars anywhere, your taxes go down $200,000. those are animating and defining issues. and that's what this election is going to be about. whose got your back. >> i love the way you say you got a salary cut because somebody else got a raise. focus that, because i'm telling you, not that you don't need my advice. but people get that. skim one crowd, the poor people, the food stamp people, give the money to people who have a lot.

thank you, congressman steve israel running the democratic congressional campaign dethis fall, and david corn as always. up next, one thing that could bring bill clinton and bill o'reilly together? this is "hardball," the place for politics. when folks in the lower 48 think about what they get from alaska,

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back to "hardball." time for the sideshow. vice president joe biden has received a lot of attention this week after an exchange he had with rachael ray about skin care, of all things. here is part of what he said monday followed by david letterman's reaction to it on his show last night. >> i love moisturizers. my husband is a moisturizer as well. would you tell me what moisturizer you use? >> well, on jill's instructions, about five years ago she said i should use clinique. >> the vice president says you know what? i love moisturizing. my wife jill got me to

moisturize. you're thinking right. he is just playing along. here is the vice president's weekly speech. take a look at this. you think he was lying about moisturizing? watch. >> as you all know, nearly 1/3 of humankind online today. something we would have never thought possible 20 years ago. more than two billion people and counting. the internet has become the public space of the 21st century. >> imagine if he didn't know how they do that stuff. anyway, we just heard that letterman himself announced he plans to retire in 2015. that's a shocker. after more than 32 years on the air. good for david. up next, former president bill clinton dropped by jimmy kimmel, the other late night show. and what did he talk about? aliens. check this out. >> just in the last two years, more than 20 planets have been identified outside our solar system. so it makes it increasingly less likely that we're alone. >> oh, you're trying to give me

a hint that there are aliens. >> no, i'm trying to tell you i don't know. but if we were visited some day, i wouldn't be surprised. i just hope that it's not like "independence day." >> yeah, right. >> think of how all the differences among people on earth would seem small if we felt threatened by a space invader. that's the whole theory of "independence day". >> you're right. you and bill o'reilly would be hiding in a bunker today. >> he would regret every mean thing he said about me. i don't care. look that. >> that is funny. the former president said if we were invaded by aliens one day, i wouldn't be surprised. well, i would. wouldn't we all? anyway, that's the way to end the partisanship in washington. and finally, republican senator dan coats of indiana made a very public mistake at a senate appropriations subcommittee hearing. after questioning by david cohn,

coats realized he was at the wrong hearing room. take a look at how that played out. >> undersecretary cohen, i just wanted to -- >> i just got a note saying i'm at the wrong hearing. >> oh, okay. >> i've got the right room number, but the wrong hearing. >> well, that would explain why i didn't know anything about this letter. [ laughter ] >> well, this is the first time this has ever happened to me. but i hope it's not a precursor. >> you're always welcome in our committee. >> that's what happened when you pop around from one hearing to the next. up next, we've seen the birthers and the 9/11 truthers. remember this? now meet the health care truthers, those creatures of the far right who say the obama administration is cooking the enrollment numbers on the affordable care act. that's ahead. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. legalzoom has helped start over 1 million businesses. if you have a business idea, we have a personalized legal solution that's right for you. with easy step-by-step guidance, we're here to help you turn your dream into a reality.

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i'm milissa rehberger. here is what is happening.

ivan lopez purchased the gun used in the mass shooting at guns galore, the same who supplied nidal malik hasan who killed 13 people at that base in 2009. president obama says his thoughts are with the families at ft. hood. he made the comments during a ceremony welcoming u.s. olympic and paralympic members to the white house. and david letterman is retiring in 2015. he made the announcement during the taping of "the tonight show." now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." for months, conservative critics have predicted the total failure of the president's health care law. so when the president announced this week the law had enrolled over seven million people into the health care exchanges, did they react with some humility or at least some acceptance? not quite. >> you've said cooking the books. the administration. do you stand by that?

>> i do. we still don't know how many people who have gone to the website to sign up actually paid. >> we don't even know what those numbers mean. we don't know how many of those folks actually paid the premiums. >> look, the numbers are a bit of funny math, because they're giving you numbers of who signed up. the numbers don't reflect, number one, who actually bought insurance and paid their first month's premium. >> and now there are more lies coming out today. seven million, which they clearly haven't hit. we're hearing that maybe 25%, if that, have actually paid for their policies. it won't end up being seven million today when we get the truth. and it may be like benghazi. it may be another year and a half before we actually get the truth. >> benghazi. what did that have to do with anything? of course, they knew they were going to throw a benghazi in there for good reason, just for the heck of it. and that's just what elected republicans are saying. others in the right wing clown car flat-out accuse the white house of toying with the numbers, of lying. here they are. >> and then today and last

night, the regime is out. and they have hit their seven million obamacare signup target. and i guarantee you, a lot of it is not possible. you can't tell me that this is real. and these people have been known to doctor the numbers. >> with millions of obamacare applicants appearing out of thin air now in the last few days, kathleen sebelius is fighting off allegations that they're cooking the books. >> this is complete bogus. this is a complete bogus fairy tale. this is completely made up. this is nonsensical. the emperor has no clothes. and everyone in the press, you rat bastards. every single one of you know what he is saying isn't true. >> well, the clown car had some more good company here. remember dean chambers? he is the conservative activist who founded unskewed polls back in 2012 to correct the

scientific polls that showed president obama in the lead. well, that math wizard has some criticism for the white house's enrollment numbers now. quote, does this sound familiar? of course. it's just the last time of several that the regime has fabricated numbers to meet a goal it has set. the magic seven million obamacare signups is no different than anything else reported by the regime, completely fraudulent, fake, and phony. what can you say about these guys besides they are health care enrollment truthers right now. joan walsh is editor at large at salon and a msnbc political analyst and michelle benard is president of the benard center for women. thank you both. first of all, the lingo. regime. whatever else you say about president obama's politics, his ideology, whatever you can figure about him, he was elected president of the united states in a democratic vote. he carried the electoral college twice. he is the only president i think since ike whose gotten two plus 50% of plurality votes. he is a legitimate president of the united states.

this is not a regime. people who talk like that are trying to do something i think is ugly. i think they're trying to create in the minds of the rattled brain people on the far right something that is really disturbed, that somehow you can disagree with somebody and leap over the fence to it's a regime of liars. it's a coup. it's somehow brought in illegitimately. they're finding a new way to say what they've been trying to say since the president was elected the first time by majority vote. this guy isn't president. that's what they're trying do, regime. >> that's exactly it. it's a new firm of birtherism. it's a new way to say he is not legitimate, he doesn't belong there, we should get him out by any means necessary. they're sore losers. it's sour grapes politics. and it's crazy. it's joe wilson times a thousand, right? joe wilson screams you lie. this is just another many, many, many more versions of "you lie." and the thing that is so hilarious, i mean, if it wasn't

sad, it would be hilarious. these guys, they loved the numbers when the administration was admitting in october and november, those numbers were low. >> oh, they were real numbers. >> those numbers were real numbers. but now the numbers can't be trusted. they're liars. they're cooking the books. we've seen it over and over and over again. you know, to undercore it, we've got dean chambers. he was absolutely right about the romney polls that romney was going to win in 2012. because we're here talking about president romney. so we know he knows what he is talking about. >> what is it about these people like karl rove running around election night with megyn kelly saying oh, no, iowa has been won. like baghdad bob over there when we were invading. i didn't like the war. but baghdad bob wasn't exactly good on the facts on the ground. what is it, michelle? this i don't believe? >> i said it off air. and i'll say it again right now. they are angry because this is an african american man rand he is succeeding. they didn't like him being elected the first time. they didn't like him being elected the second time.

he stands for so much that a marginalized republican party does not like. and here is the dirty little secret, i think, why we continue to see them on this mega phone that it's a lie, it's a lie, it's a lie. a lot of the people who are going to benefit from quote/unquote boom carrie are probably low income, red state republican whites who are going to look up ten years from now and who are going to say this has made my life better. so maybe the mantra that i have grown up hearing about big government is bad might not be truthful. and maybe the democratic party is more appealing because it has made my life better. my wife can get treatment for breast cancer. i can get treatment. >> that's what they said about the new deal. by the way, the southern whites and people living in the country love meals on wheels. and social security. >> its holy grail like social security. >> absolutely. >> because old people used to be just left alone. as i said now, for months, conservatives have been predicting total failure for the affordable care act. and here is some examples.

>> this thing was destined to fail. >> this thing is fundamentally flawed, bill. so yeah, i do think we ought to delay. i think it's very clear that they're not ready for prime time. >> they've got about two weeks left, two and a half weeks. at the pace they got this the last two weeks, they'll probably be a little bit under four million. so they'll be short two and a half million. it's not working. it's destroyed the best health care system in the country, and the president still thinks he has done something. >> there is no way they're going to get anywhere close to enrolling seven million new people who have paid for their plans. it ain't going to happen. >> obamacare is failing and will fail. and i'm very much looking forward to being on the show in january 2017 when finally all of obamacare is repealed. >> the smirking, the devil talk, the future will be hell, we're going off the cliff. what is this? i accept this ethnic part of it to an extent. i never know where to put it because you never know where to put it and what piece is in

people's heads and the fact that they cannot just handle barack obama being president of the united states. but the other thing, i believe if on fox and wall street and the op-ed pages, if they say it over and over and over again, if they get out there the idea of word of mouth over and over and over and over and over again, it's failed, you know how people when they hear a commercial jingle. >> right. >> and they're asked in an interview and they repeat the jingle. if they do enough, they'll get enough bad-mouthing of this health care that maybe that will bring it down in november and win one more election. >> or maybe people won't sign up for it. it's not just the ethnic piece. i think the real danger is if republicans are never going to get the minority vote, or at least no time soon, they're not going to get the majority of women voting for them, they cannot afford to lose -- >> 47%. >> they cannot afford to lose the white voters that they do have now. and if those people like it and start to either self identify as independents or as democrats, the republican party is the losing party for a long time. >> louie gohmert, by the way is my go-to guy on birtherism.

when he comes down with that nice beautiful southern drawl of his and he starts talking about the way -- just remember, he is the guy that for years pushed the argument that obama was born in some other country to somebody else and he wasn't really an american. joan, you're great, as always. >> thank you. >> and i got to go. joan walsh, i mean that with high honor. michelle bernard, you are moving left. you are moving left. i detected you over the years. look at her smiling. she knows that. you're coming into the corner. up next, leave it to the hard right, leave to it the hard right to keep beating the benghazi drum. mention it, like bingo. they put on another show trial yesterday in the united states congress. and the cia official they tried to tear down fought back with the facts that should help. and that's ahead. well, this is "hardball," the place for politics. there's a saying around here, you stand behind what you say. around here you don't make excuses. you make commitments. and when you can't live up to them, you own up, and make it right. some people think the kind of accountability

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benghazi, determined to chase the story, an issue that doesn't exist, simply to poison the well for the democrats' likely 2016 presidential nominee former secretary of state hillary clinton. well, the house intelligence committee hearing yesterday was not an effort to get fax, but instead an opportunity to get yet again accuse a former administration in this case and by extension president obama and hillary clinton of covering up the response to the attacks on that u.s. facility in benghazi ahead of the 2012 election. well, here is republican michele bachmann, of course, accusing former cia deputy director michael morel of lying to the american people. >> what's really odd here is that the false narrative that was given on sunday morning on the sunday morning shows somehow strangely added up with a view of the white house six weeks before the presidential election. that was the narrative of the white house in the run-up to the presidential election. how weird that that ultimately was reflected in the talking

points against all knowledge from people on the ground and knowledge this committee had. that's why we're upset, because the american people from my intentionally misled by this administration as to what happened in benghazi. >> i done think people like bachmann even keep up with stories. that's evidence of it. she doesn't know what she's talking about. the bipartisan intelligence committee completely cleared the behavior by the odd station. there was no bs involved in the reporting. bachmann was one of many on the committee to take a swipe at morel and obama administration generally. in front of the cameras, all the money for hillary clinton. u.s. congressman adam smith is a democrat from washington. "time" magazine's mark halperin is msnbc's senior political analyst. don't these people read the reports that come out? we know what happened in benghazi. it was ignited by that stupid

anti-islamic video. they used the word extremist rather than terrorist. they didn't use the world al qaeda. that was a decision by general petraeus, himself. i do not get why they keep acting like we don't know anything when we know pretty much everything. your thoughts. >> first of all, the right-wing conspiracy, the clown car as you're calling it today, don't live in the fact. based world. they haven't heard anything you just said or r aany of the numes reports that made it clear what representative bachmann is saying is completely totally untrue. has no basis in reality whatsoever. so they simply keep repeating it over and over and over again. >> what's their goal? bottom line, what's their home run here? >> they keep throwing mud up. two goals. one, they throw mud up the same wall and hope it sticks. they're desperate to find some sort of conspiracy. keep in mind, some people were muttering about impeachment when this first happened. they want to stick something on the president, first of all. second of all, they're playing to their right-wing base that

loves this stuff. look, the day after the attack president obama said it was a terrorist attack and yet they keep accusing him that it wasn't. there's no facts here. there's just the right wing trying to tarnish the president and pander to their increasingly unrealistic base, a base that's completely lost touch with reality. >> there are some scandals that are real. we know that, mark. they exist in history. watergate, for example. teapot dome. i don't think whitewater was one of them. is this one, you hear it so many times, there must have been something there? where there's smoke, there's fire? is that the theory? >> it is largely driven by the imperative demands of the right. that they keep asking about it. and for fund-raising and all the normal incentives we see in politics today. we've seen show hearings on a bunch of topics by both parties throughout our careers. the republicans keep doing it on the same issue with very little tactics or strategy. with no new information of any significance. >> what's the home run, mark? we don't have much time.

is the home run that hillary let her friend die? it seems like somehow they go, the pr was played around with, the reporting was played around with, the statements on "meet the press." somehow that led to the death several days before of chris stevens. what's the causality they're looking at here? >> chris, there are various schools of benghazi scandal mania. what happened before, failure to defend the embassy, consulate. what happened during, whether fl there was enough attempts made to protect the people there and tragic loss of life. there are the people who want to talk about the spin after. in all three of the areas there are legitimate policy questions. if republicans were smart, they'd focus on the legitimate public policy questions rather than this attempt to inflame and cater to the right wing of the party. >> congressman smith, yes or no. take a few words to say this. is there any way to end this conversation, or their dribble right through the '16 election? >> i don't see any way to end it on the right wing. i hope congress will end it. i worked very hard with the

armed services committee to get us to stop asking about it. i hope this is the last time any committee in congress will officially waste time and look at it. there's no way to stop the right wing noise machine. you know that. they'll keep babbling about it. hopefully this will make them look as incoherent as they are and wind up hurting them. i think it is at at point where they're so unhinged on this issue the american people have left them on it. >> this is how harry trum gan g reelected in '48. the congress had a chance to do stuff. thank you, adam smith of washington state and the great mark halperin. thank you, sir. we'll be right back after this. that are powered by the moon. ♪ she can print amazing things, right from her computer. [ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] she makes trains that are friends with trees. ♪ my mom works at ge. ♪

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let me finish tonight with where i was yesterday. i was across the potomac river in arlington national cemetery with kathleen, her world war ii and korean war father along with her mother, mary lou, where he wanted very much to end up. like mt. rushmore and the lib rty bell and a few other iconic american places, we have to throw in the u.s. capitol and the white house, arlington is this country's sacred ground, where we honor nose who served this country and so many cases died doing it. fighting our country's battles in the air, land and sea, from the halls of montezuma, to the shores of tripoli. boy, do those words get to your heart when you stand out there as we did yesterday with all those young marines marching in slow drill, the band playing the cason, pulled along by the white

horses. the music of the navy and marine corps filling the spring air. i was so very proud of kathleen for how she led her family out there at arlington cemetery and so grateful to the young men in the marine unit who performed the honors with such excellence and precision and derespect. i'll never forget the words spoken to kathleen as she sat there with her brothers and sisters, her being the oldest. semper fidelus. as he knelt before her taking off his white glove to express his personal commitment held true through all the years. bob cunningham was saluted with the three guns yesterday. his real salute was the good memories he carried with him with real pride from his days as a young enlisted sailor based in new caledonia and lady gulf. he went up into the hills of an enemy held island to call in gunfire from the ships. were you ever scared, i once asked him? no, my father-in-law said without a beat, i had a hell of a time. we and our children visited him

on his last weekend. our kids were wonderful with him, and he with them cracking jokes to the end. robert em mmett cunningham now with his beloved mary lou at arlington national cemetery. good evening from new york. i'm joy reid filling in for chris hayes. right now across the country, groups aligned with the republican party are spending tens of millions of dollars to try and turn the senate red. democrats are being bombarded by tv ads funded by outside groups, while senate majority leader harry reid has been trying to sound the alarm. for the past several months, senator reid has repeatedly gone after the koch brothers. even hosting 14 facts about the koch brothers on his senate website. it's all part of a concerted effort to make charles and david koch