i thank both of you for being here. rebecca traister as well as rita williams ewing. thank you very much. of course, that is all for this evening on "all in with chris." i'm joy reid in for chris hayes who's doing exactly what he should be doing at home with his baby. i'll be back on msnbc tomorrow and every weekday at 2:00 p.m. eastern with "the reid report." "the rachel maddow" starts right now, good evening, rachel. >> good evening, joy. thank you, man. great to see you there. great to see you. >> thank you. thanks to you at home for staying with us the next hour. in 2004, the academy award for best documentary went to a film called "the fog of war." >> was there a rule that said you shouldn't bomb, shouldn't kill, shouldn't burn to death civilians in the night? >> said if we lost the war, we all would have been prosecuted as war criminals. i think he's right. he, and i'd say i, we're

behaving as war criminals. >> robert mcnamara. served in the air force during world war ii. robert mcnamara reflects on war and morality and his own complicity as a human being and as a u.s. policymaker, and the film is both moving and in a way cathartic. >> we all make mistakes. we know we make mistakes. i don't know any military commander who is honest who would say he has not made a mistake. there's a wonderful phrase, "the fog of war." what the fog of war means is war is so complex, it's beyond the

ability of the human mind to comprehend all the variables. our judgment, our understanding, are not adequate. and we kill people unnecessarily. >> it's from "the fog of war." the man who made that oscar winning film, errol morris has a new film out called "the unknown known." he subjects donald rumsfeld to the same scrutiny as robert mcnamara from "the fog of war" but this film donald rumsfeld has no interests in scrutinizing himself. >> osama gets away and a confusion sets in. people began to think that saddam was connected with al qaeda and with 9/11.

>> i don't think so. it was very clear that the direct planning for 9/11 was done by osama bin laden's people, al qaeda, and in afghanistan. i don't think the american people were confused about that. >> in 2003, in a "washington post" poll, 69% said they believe it is likely the iraqi leader was personally involved in the attacks carried out by al qaeda. >> i don't remember anyone in the bush administration saying anything like that. nor do i recall anyone believing that. >> mr. secretary, today in a broadcast interview, saddam hussein said there is only one truth, iraq has no weapons of mass destruction whatsoever. and he went on to say, i would like to tell you directly we have no relationship with al qaeda. >> and abraham lincoln was short. >> would you care to respond directly to what saddam hussein

has said today? >> how does one respond to that? it's just a continuous pattern. this is a case of the local liar coming up again and people repeating what he said and forgetting to say that he never, almost never, rarely tells the truth. >> donald rumsfeld, former defense secretary as seen in the new errol morris film, "the unknown known." it is amazing donald rumsfeld is denying not only that people believe there's a connection between iraq and al qaeda, but denying he had any role in propagating that idea. i mean, errol morris debunks it in that minute and a half long clip. proof of it is everywhere. this is donald rumsfeld in 2003, "we do have solid evidence of the presence in iraq of al qaeda members. we have senior level contacts between iraq and al qaeda going back a decade." this is the transcript of donald rumsfeld speaking to the metro atlanta chamber of commerce, the

evidence linking 9/11 in iraq was in his words, "bulletproof." now donald rumsfeld totally denies he ever believed there was a connection between the two or had any role in making other people believe that connection as well. nbc's michael isikoff just today shared with us a new document that's never been publicly released before, showing that when donald rumsfeld was told the 9/11 hijacker had not met with iraqi officials like the bush administration had been publicly claiming he had, donald rumsfeld pushed back on that and asked how it was possible to know that atta hadn't met with the iraqis. he asked, couldn't atta been wearing a blond wig or something when he had the meeting? how could we know he didn't do it? but it is amazing to have donald rumsfeld on film, right, it's

one thing to know that they're lying. it's another thing to see them lying on film. right to your face. and to see how comfortable a guy like donald rumsfeld is with himself and his total shamelessness. here's one more very short clip from the film. just watch at the very end of this one the sort of shock and revelation from donald rumsfeld and how proud of himself he is about this. watch this. i find this just incredible. >> what about all these so-called torture memos? >> well, there were, what, one or two or three. i don't know the number. but there were not all of these so-called memos. they were mischaracterized as torture memos and they came not out of the bush administration, per se, they came out of the u.s. department of justice. blessed by the attorney general, senior legal official of the united states of america having been nominated by a president and confirmed by the united states senate overwhelmingly. little different cast i just put on it than the one you did. i'll chuck that one up. >> was the reaction unfair?

>> i've never read them. >> really? >> no. i'm not a lawyer. what would i know? >> that's errol morris, the filmmaker shouting, really? it's the best thing about that. other than the revelation from donald rumsfeld that he never bothered to read the supposedly all-important memos that they said legally justify what everybody knew was torture. and donald rumsfeld, of course, is just amazing as a character. errol morris at one point walks him through how easy donald rumsfeld might very well have ended up being president of the united states had things not gone slightly differently in his own history.

had he been picked as vice president at one point which was very possible. it's kind of a throw your popcorn in the air and fall down screaming moment, right? the prospect of donald rumsfeld, president of the united states. i think that's why this film is being billed in some way as a horror movie. beyond just the character issues here, what's fascinating to see about this person who's so important in our history, this film also comes out at a really important time in terms of the larger issue of whether or not we as the american public are going to decide that we ought to know what is true about our recent and difficult history. whether we are going to decide that we ought to know the real truth about bad things our country has done and our government has done. today the senate intelligence committee voted 11-3 to declassify a long-awaited report on the subject of those memos that donald rumsfeld so proudly said he had never read. the senate intelligence committee report on the cia torturing prisoners after 9/11. it apparently runs more than 6,000 pages in total. what they voted on today was to declassify about 500 pages of

that report. sort of summary of the report's findings that they will now send to the president. the white house will then review it for declassification purposes and then it will come out to the public. and, you know, this vote is being reported today and leading up to this vote today, there's been widespread reporting there's some ambiguity about whether or not we're ultimately going to get to see it, whether or not the white house ultimately will decide to declassify this part of this report and release it publicly. i have to say, that ambiguity does not seem like it is warranted. if only because president obama has been very clear about the fact that he is going to declassify this report, he is going to let us see it. >> the first day i came into office, i ended the practices that are subject to the investigation by the senate committee. and have been very clear that i

believe they were contrary to our values as a country. since that time, we have worked with the senate committee so that the report that they are putting forward is well informed and what i've said is that i am absolutely committed to declassifying that report as soon as the report is completed. in fact, i would urge them to go ahead and complete the report, send it to us. we will declassify those findings so that the american people can understand what happened in the past and that can help guide us as we move forward. >> the president has been pretty clear about this, and because of that, this historic vote today in the senate intelligence committee means that the summary of this big torture report is finally going to come out. when that happens, we are going to have a lot of access to a lot of information about what our country did that we have never known before. and, again, it is not expected to be good news.

it's expected to be terrible news. >> the purpose of this review was to uncover the facts behind this secret program and the results, i think, were shocking. the report exposes brutality that stands in stark contrast to our values as a nation. it chronicles a stain on our history that must never be allowed to happen again. this is not what americans do. the release of this summary in conclusions in the near future shows that this nation admits its errors, as painful as they may be, and seeks to learn from them. we are acknowledging those mistakes and we have a continuing responsibility to make sure that nothing like this ever happens again. >> we are on the precipice of something here. the long fight over releasing this report has been about the very basic question of whether or not we get to know what happened. deciding that we just do not

want to know is obviously more comfortable for everyone involved, but it is just as obviously the cowardly way out. and it is absolutely shortsighted if we do have a national interest in not repeating the error. in 2006, when then-president george w. bush gave this speech for the first time acknowledging the existence of the cia having a secret network of prisons that it set up after 9/11, george w. bush said explicitly and repeatedly in that speech, torture techniques used by the cia to interrogate people, he said explicitly those techniques were how they found khalid sheikh mohammed. the president of the united states, himself, explicitly, repeatedly, and in great detail that the cia torturing people worked. that it got us information we never could have gotten any other way. people who have seen this report that's about to be declassified say that it directly and factually contradicts the president's claims. if it's true, and the report proves it, then either the

president will be proven to be lying about a matter that is, after all, war crimes, or the cia will have to explain why it lied to the president in such a way that made him lie to the country. this is very, very uncomfortable stuff. the cia does not want to be talking about this. you can tell that dianne feinstein doesn't even really want to be talking about this. you can tell the obama administration does not want to be talk about this. i mean, they were the ones who said they wanted to move forward and not look to the past. right? they said they wouldn't be prosecuting any of these matters after the department of justice looked into it. certainly most of all, you can imagine that the administration of george w. bush and george w. bush, himself, they do not want to be talking about this. on the day the senate intelligence committee voted today to declassify key sections of this potentially

earth-shattering report, president bush was previewing his new gallery show of his new paintings that he's done of world leaders. he previewed his new show of paintings in a sweet new interview with his own daughter which is going to be airing on the "today" show tomorrow morning. that is what the former president wants to be talking about. but history has a way of sneaking up on you. history has a way of shaking you awake just as you are trying to drift off to sleep. history does not let go. joining us now, errol morris. new documentary "the unknown known" is in theaters in new york and l.a. tonight. opening in additional cities tomorrow. mr. morris, thank you very much for being here. mr. morris, can you hear me? >> i can, indeed. >> oh, good. excellent. i was worried i was in space and nobody could hear me scream. i have to ask you about the contention that i made about your film that donald rumsfeld did not particularly want to feel like he needs to reckon with his own legacy from the

bush administration. >> of course not. he would like to pretend that everything that was done during the bush administration, torture included, was perfectly okay. >> what did you learn about him going in that you did not know before you spoke with him? what surprised you? >> what really surprised me more than anything is this lack of desire to reflect deeply. maybe reflect at all on anything he had done. everything was okay. everything made sense. the policies were all successful. the war in iraq was a good thing. not a bad thing. who could not be amazed by that? the lack of an apology.

the lack of even the ability to see that these policies might have been wrong. might have been mistaken. >> do you see parallels between his personal approach to those issues and his role in them, and the way we have dealt with those issues as a nation? >> sadly, yes. it is the way to deal with the past denial. we've swept so much stuff under the rug. none of the officials of the bush administration, none of the high officials have ever been held accountable for what they've done. after all, didn't we go to war for fraudulent reasons? didn't hundreds of thousands die?

shouldn't someone have to explain why they did this? >> when you think about the prospect of this torture report coming out, one of the things i've been struck by in this debate is that it's been going on for so long that they've had this report in the intelligence committee about torture. it's gone on for so many years now. that members of that committee have come and gone and you've had new senators be elected to the senate, be appointed to that committee and to have access to that information for the first time. and every time somebody sees that information for the first time, they tell the world that they are shocked by it. angus king is the most recent. he says reading that report was shocking to him, knowing everything we know about that era in our history. >> you said a very crucial thing quoting president obama, that these policies do not accord with our values.

is torture what we want to project to the rest of the world as something that we endorse? something that we approve of? something that we practice? i don't think so. >> errol morris, documentary filmmaker. the newest release is called "the unknown known." opens across the country tomorrow. also going to be available on demand and itunes. mr. morris, thank you for being with us tonight. it's a real honor to have you here. >> thank you very much, rachel. >> thank you. all right. personal space. if your personal space matters to you, something that is one of your constitutional rights just got way, way creepier. in one critical american state. that story and an encroachment on your personal space is coming up. my hygienist told me that less tartar means less scraping. so i'm going pro. [ male announcer ] new crest tartar protection rinse. the only rinse that helps prevent tartar build-up

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can i help you? >> boss' orders. >> oh, seriously? oh, this is a thing now. hold on. this story's coming up. oh, man. creepy guy. hold on. we'll be right back. ♪ oh-oh, oh, oh, la, la-la, la-la, la-la ♪ ♪ na-na-na, na-na-na-na-na some things just go together, like auto and home insurance. bundle them together at progressive, and you save big on both. ♪ oh, oh-oh, oh, oh hey, it's me! [ whistles ] and there's my dog! [gasps] there's my steps! i should stop talking. perfectly paired savings.

now, that's progressive. it's 2014. it's -- it's a midterm election year. and democrats are worried about that. because even though democrats are been pretty good at winning presidential elections in recent years, that success has largely hinged on democrats getting lots and lots and lots of people to turn out to vote in presidential election years. it is harder to get people to turn out in non-presidential years, and that's a big part of

why republicans did really well in the last midterm elections in 2010 and it's why republicans think they're going to do well again this year in 2014. see, in general -- democrats need lots of voters to turn out. republicans need not lots of voters to turn out. so in states where republicans are in control of state government, we have seen a lot of changes to election laws recently. all changes to make voting harder. and, of course, that is a contentious issue anywhere when you mess with people's voting rights, but it is particularly contentious in states where everybody votes. the state of wisconsin, for example, has a history of everybody voting. they're always one of the top five states in the nation for the percentage of people turning

out to vote. apparently in wisconsin, though, that's now a problem. it is at least sting that republican governor scott walker and republican-controlled state legislature thought they might be able to remedy. after they got control in 2011, they cut early voting statewide from three weeks down to just two weeks. they also limited voting on the weekends. those are both very popular ways of voting so obviously they've got to go. that same year, governor scott walker signed a new republican legislation to require people to show new documentation in order to vote that people never had to show before in wisconsin. that law was blocked in the courts. but the republicans in wisconsin are still going for it. last week, scott walker and the republican legislature slashed early voting for a second time. this time cutting early voting after work hours and eliminating weekend voting altogether. that ought to make a dent in wisconsin having a good voter turnout rate. but now they're going one better. this one's -- this one's a doozy. it's at least very high on the creep factor. scott walker just signed into law another voting regulation yesterday. this time cutting down on the breathing room you have when you go to register to vote and when you go to vote. it's called assembly bill 202 that he signed. it requires polling places to

have an election observer within three to eight feet of you when you go to register to vote in wisconsin. a partisan election observer now has the right to be three feet away from you. 36 inches away from you. this close when you are filling out your voter registration information at the polls and then again when you're announcing your name and address to the poll worker and get your ballot on election day. three feet away. when they record your personal information, which you now have to show in order to prove your residency to be able to vote in wisconsin. three feet away. as close as three feet. no further away from you than eight feet according to scott walker's new law. these guys are not the nonpartisan good government poll workers, right? these are the partisan election observers who are there to challenge you if in the process of breathing down your neck from a distance of 36 inches, they see anything that you don't like

about you voting. wisconsin used to be known for civic virtue and civic civility. now it's just creepy. go. go. [ male announcer ] it's here -- xfinity watchathon week,

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the iraq war ended in december of 2011. it was expected that u.s. troops would all leave iraq by new year's eve. by december 31st, 2011. but they made the transfer early on december 15th. nbc's richard engel was at the iraqi/kuwaiti border when the last troops left, watching the troops cross over the border and cheer and celebrate that the 8 1/2-year-long war in iraq was

done. but the official end of the war was december 15th, 2011. that same morning, december 15th, 2011, a gunman opened fire at a small courthouse in a northern minnesota town right up against the canadian border. he shot the local prosecutor multiple times and he wounded two other people. that was december 15th. less than two weeks later on christmas morning, it was a mass shooting in downtown chattanooga, tennessee. a crowd of young people leaving a christmas eve party after midnight when the gunfire fired into the crowd. nine people were shot. january 10th, philadelphia, pennsylvania, four teenagers riding in the same car were ambushed by an armed 30-year-old man. all four of the teenagers were shot. three were killed. february 21st, norcross, georgia, near atlanta, a man storms into a spa own and run by his family.

he shoots and kills four of his own relatives then kills himself. february 26th, jackson, tennessee. a gunman fires into the crowd and shoots 21 people. miraculously, 20 of those people are wounded and only one person dies. the next day, february 27th, it's chardon, ohio. a 17-year-old high school student takes a gun from a relative, brings it to school, opens fire in the cafeteria. he kills three of his fellow high school students and sends two more to the hospital. march 8th, pittsburgh, a man walks into a psychiatric hospital killing two semiautomatic handguns. he kills one person and wounds seven. march 30th, miami, florida. there's a funeral under way for a 21-year-old man who had been shot to death. a gunman pulls up to the funeral home and fires into the crowd who's there to mourn him. 12 people are shot and injured. two people are shot and killed. april 2nd, a university in oakland, california.

a former nursing student arms himself and returns to that campus after he's been kicked out. he kills seven people and wounds three. three days later, tulsa, oklahoma, two men randomly targeting african-americans they see on the street. two people wounded, three killed. may 29th, seattle. a may with a gun walks into the university district in seattle. he starts shooting. he kills five people then he kills himself. july 8th, a soccer tournament in will ming delaware. multiple gunmen this time firing into the soccer tournament. they kill a 16-year-old player and one other person. july 20th, this is one that even made the news. it was the midnight premiere of one of the "batman" movies. the gunman was wearing body armor when he opened fire. shot and injured 58 people. 12 others killed. two weeks later the sheik temple shooting. eight days later three more people were killed including a police officer and gunman,

himself, when a shooter opened fire near texas a&m. empire state building at rush hour. one man shot and killed. nine people shot and injured before the gunman, himself, was shot by police. seven days after that, a 23-year-old opens fire at a supermarket he worked at in old bridge, new jersey. he kills two of his co-workers then shoots himself in the head. september 27th, accent signage in minneapolis. a 36-year-old man who had been laid off worked into his former workplace with a gun. he shot eight former co-workers. he killed five of them. he killed himself. milwaukee, wisconsin, a man with a gun shows up at his wife's job. kills her and two other people and injures four more people before he kills himself. november 6th. a man who works at a meat processing plant in fresno, california, shoots four people, killing two of them then he kills himself. december 12th, 22-year-old man takes several loaded magazines

of ammunition and rifle into the clackamas, oregon, shopping mall. kills two people then he kills himself. december 14th, two days after that, that was sandy hook. 26 killed at the school. mostly first graders. the shooter's mother killed at home in her bed, and then the shooter, himself. yes, that was a heavy year. but that was not a totally unusual year. that is pretty much the american way of mass murder now. and just taking that year, we don't look back at that year of shootings and think, my god, what is it about high school students? or nursing students? or what is it about people with jobs or people who lose their jobs or people who are bad at their jobs or people who have relatives who work at spas? we don't say, my god, what is it about young men or middle-aged men or truck drivers or doctor candidates? you fast forward to the latest mass shooting in america and there is an urge to rush to judge that the most important

deciding factor in what explains the latest burst of mass gun violence in our country, this latest multiple murder in our country, must be the fact that the suspected perpetrator is an iraq war veteran. as if veterans are uniquely dangerous. as if knowing that this suspected shooter served in iraq explains why this happened. it is a perversion in the news coverage of the ft. hood story right now to focus so exclusively on the fact that the shooter is a vet. the "washington post" and the kaiser family foundation this weekend published a landmark extensive survey of iraq and afghanistan veterans. more than 2.6 million americans have served in those wars. and more than half of those who served in the wars are now out of the service. no longer serving on active duty or in the reserves or in the national guard. half of iraq veterans did two or more deployments. nearly a third of those who served in that war spent two years or more in country during

their service. that's more than half a million americans who serve more than two years on the ground in iraq. but appreciating their needs, appreciating what it will take of us to make good on the things that we promise them in exchange for their service, there is a bright line between doing that and painting them with all one broad brush as needy or somehow incapable or scary. even for people who didn't experience serious injuries directly related to combat, asking people to serve multiple year-long tours exacts a toll even on young, strong bodies. a man writing for the "washington post" about this survey profiles a guardsman who's now 32 years old going on 60. his job in iraq was filling the craters left behind by roadside bombs. a job that required him to jackhammer asphalt while wearing 50 pounds of body armor and gear. a fractured vertebra, three fused disks in his back, ringing in his ears and post traumatic stress.

he has a job, but he's using a cane to walk and needs help moving boxes and things on the job. he's 32 years old. this texas national guard sergeant who spent a year as an infantryman in iraq on his feet wearing heavy body armor, rifle, ammunition. the literal weight of that gear after a year has worn out the cartilage in his knees and his knees have leaking fluid sacks. he's 26 years old. he says, i just want my knees to be my knees again. i don't want grandpa knees at this point. 26 years old. just reenlisted for another six years. paying attention to veterans instead of stereotyping them means appreciating that they really do need access to health care. this week we celebrated the fact that the backlog on veterans waiting to hear there the va about disability claims has been cut by 44% since last year.

hooray for that. that's progress. the backlog is so giant even with the 44% cut, it still means more than 300,000 veterans are still in the backlog waiting a minimum of 125 days to even hear back from the va about their disability claim, even if what they're going to hear is no. more than 300,000, that is still outrageous. that's for disability claims. paying attention to veterans instead of stereotyping them also means appreciating that the stress and trauma of life at war and combat and specifically the contrast between that and civilian life, it does have mental health consequences and in particular it can heighten the risk of suicide. a majority of iraq and afghanistan veterans say they know a fellow service member who has committed suicide or has tried to. that's not a call to write off veterans as too hurt to come back home. that means something specific. something nonromantic. something you don't need to write fiction about. it needs policy. it means as a country, we need stronger suicide prevention efforts for our veterans. that's something we can do. the only iraq combat veteran in the united states senate, senator john walsh of montana,

just this week introduced a bill to up suicide prevention efforts for veterans. we need that. what we don't need is to use what just happened at ft. hood, the latest in a long line of mass shootings in america, what we don't need is to use what just happened at ft. hood as an excuse to stereotype veterans as broken because of their time as war. if we think of every other mass shooting in america as somehow particular to the circumstances of that shooting, but this one is explained away as, oh, he was an iraq vet. what you see in the headlines about this story all over the country today, not only does that not help us understand what happened here, it is an offense against every other veteran who right now is getting that stigma shoveled on to them by a lazy civilian world and a lazy civilian media who find this dangerous veteran stereotype to be an easier thing to point to than the fact that america has a mass shooting problem.

we have a bad mass shooting problem. and the only single thing that all of our american mass shooting perpetrators have in common, the only thing common among them is that all of them [ male announcer ] it's here -- xfinity watchathon week,

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navy s.e.a.l.s when he stepped on an ied. dan lost both of his legs in the explosion, but he never lost that fighting spirit. on the one-year anniversary of his injury, he ran a mile on his prosthetics. and today, 4 1/2 years after his injury, dan is proud to wear another one of our nation's uniforms and that is of team usa. yeah. >> our thoughts right now in many ways are with the families at ft. hood. you know, these are folks who make such extraordinary sacrifices for us each and every day for our freedom. during the course of a decade of war, many of them have been on multiple tours of duty. to see unspeakable senseless violence happen in a place where they're supposed to feel safe, home base, is tragic.

they've done their duty, and they're an inspiration. they've made us proud. they put on their uniform and then they take care of us. we have to make sure when they come home, we take care of them. >> president obama and the first lady today welcoming the u.s. olympians and paralympians at the white house including lieutenant dan cnossen, navy s.e.a.l. and double amputee who the first lady says she personally found so inspiring. the president as you heard him say there america's veterans take care of us and when they come home, we need to take care of them. after members of the military were killed and injured yesterday in the mass shooting at ft. hood in texas, today, of course, those sentiments take on stronger resonance. joining us now, rajiv chandrasekaran, senior correspondent for the "washington post." thanks very much for being here. it's nice to have you here. >> it's good to be back with you.

>> you've done a survey with kaiser and the "washington post" with iraq and afghanistan veterans and it's come out in what we didn't know was going to be an incredibly important moment in terms of america's perceptions of veterans. i wonder, i want to talk to you about that survey more broadly and about america's veterans coming home, but i wonder if the ft. hood shooting if you feel like there's been excessive focus on the fact that the suspected perpetrator in that case served time in iraq without us having any sense of whether that might be relevant to this. >> well, i mean, i think everybody sort of honed in on it and i think blown it out of proportion, as you rightly point out. you know, his time in iraq was four to five months. it was on the tail end of that conflict, at a time when it wasn't very violent there. there's no clear evidence that the psychiatric conditions that he was reportedly under treatment for were linked to his time in iraq or anything having to do with his military service. there are a lot of unanswered questions now.

i want to talk to you about that survey more broadly, but i wonder if you feel like there's been sort of excessive focus on the fact that the suspected perpetrator in that case served time in iraq, without us having any sense of whether that might be relevant to this. >> well, i think everyone everybody sort of honed in on it and blew it oit of proportion, as you rightly point out. his time in iraq was four to fife months. it was on the tail end of that conflict at a time when it wasn't that violent there. there's no clear evidence the psychiatric conditions he was reportedly under treatment for were linked to his time in iraq. or anything having to do with his military service. there are a lot of unanswered questions now, and it's quite frankly irresponsible to jump to conclusions to suggest that his time out on the war zone led him to do this. >> when you look at the survey data that we've got now from

veterans, and this is an extensive, it's a big survey size in the story, and it's an extensive look at them. what are we able to document about how veterans feel in terms of their relationship with the civilian world? i feel likester fieping is the result of distance. people stereotype people who they feel like they don't know. what are we hearing from veterans. >> the veterans come back are saying look, we're grateful for the fact that the civilian world says they appreciate our service, they thank us for what they did. but they really feel disconnected. 55% say they feel disconnected from civilian life in america. and this is not an issue where the responsibility on the soldiers of the veterans. in many ways, the responsibility is on all of us, the 99% who didn't go out there serving with a uniform on. the civilian population, given we have an all volunteer military, we've had one now for a generation. it's a good thing. but the fighting has been left for a cadre of americans. the rest of america has really disconnected itself from the war. and so these folks come back and they come back to an america where people not only can't relate to what they've been through but in many cases don't raely seem to care. >> one of the reasons i wanted to talk to you about this, you have done a lot of on the ground reporting in the war zones and done a lot on the beltway discussions, policy-making discussions that leads to what happens on the ground. beautiful like what we're learning from these veterans about the toll of doing, not just single tour, but multiple tours, about the huge number of

veterans that did more than two years on the ground in iraq, just the incredible amount of time and repettive service we ask them to do, is there feedback about that to policymakers in washington, that maybe that was too much to ask of what is, after all, such a small force for big wars? >> there hasn't been enough discussion about it. because this group of american, this small group willingly went back again and again and shouldered this enormous burden. they've come back pretty battered. 43% say their physical health is worse today than when they went out there. but less people think it wasless an angry and bitter group of americans. it's not a surprise to anyone who wears a uniform, but to the civilian population, their eyes popped open. 90% said they're proud of what they did. but more importantly, when asked

would you do it again, given the risk, the separation from family, the stress, 89% said they would do it all over again. this group of people who really believe in what they were doing, putting aside the broader national policy debates about were these wars and the way they were conducted in the best interest of america. they felt they had a job to do. they put their hand up to serve and descend the united states. when they were called to do it, they stepped and did it. >> not only are iraq and afghanistan veterans saying them do it again and they are proud of what they did, but at a higher rate than the general population, iraq and afghanistan veterans say the wars were not worth fighting. iraq veterans are more against the iraq war than the general population is and they would still go back and do it again. for me, i sort of feel like as a civilian, as somebody who personally didn't serve, this is something that i need to have faith in, that i need to believe

that this is the way you can understand the world, but i feel like there isn't any parallel to this in the civilian world, where people say it's not worth doing but i'm willing to stand up to do it and i would do it again. >> i think part of this goes to the fact that when a lot of civilians go up to a member of the military a uniform and say thank you for your service, they're thinking to themselves boy, this person got a raw deal. they were sent away from home for a year. they had to go there and engage in this incredibly dangerous activity. well, indeed that was true, and that is true, but far lot of those folk, this is their calling. they signed up to be members of the military. they don't want pity. they don't feel like they were pushed into doing something they didn't want to do. in some cases, they see it as their job. and they were simply doing their job well for their nation in their view. >> thank you for your time

tonight. thanks for your reporting and thanks for whatever you had to do to talk the "post" into doing this in such a big way. that survey data i think is going to be a benchmark for us for a really long time. >> thanks for devoting so much attention to this issue. >> if there's one thing that's true in the media industry, there's no one person more important than the folks that work at your local newspaper.

>> thanks for devoting so much attention to this issue. >> if there's one thing that's true in the media industry, there's no one person more important than the folks that work at your local newspaper. we rely a lot on the local newspapers, this has become more true lately in the great state of new jersey, particularly the record of bergen county and star ledger in newark have provided irreplaceable reporting through what started in a local traffic

column but soon became one of the most compelling stories in national politics. the investigation into the george washington lane closures and the chris christie administration in new jersey. we counted on "the star ledger" and nj.com for the news they break and the interviews they get, i way they doggedly covered the story, despite the people they're covering telling them to buzz off. it was the star ledger who first alerted us to the fact that david wildstein's job had no job description. it was nj.com that was the first to report the u.s. attorney in new jersey had sent federal grand jury subpoenas to the office of the governor in new jersey. it's the largest newspaper in the state and today they announced that they are laying off one out of every four people who works in their news room. they're eliminating the jobs of 167 people, 40 of whom are reporters, editors, photographers and other staffers, specifically in the news room. for jobs were also eliminated at nj.com and some of the smaller newspapers across the state and this is terrible news for new

jersey and for those of us who count on the ns in new jersey being well reported to the rest of us. up next. good morning on this friday. right now in "first look" weather nation driving wind and rain, hail and flash flooding is a major impact on 51 million americans. mental health. new details on the fort hood shooter's statement. right now the right know. what will the public learn from a declassified report on interrogation? david letterman is calling it quits. so he and paul can get married. paula deen's restaurant closers. enand the washington post calls the avenge gers the most grown up movie yet. the weather channel's m