tv Lockup MSNBC April 6, 2014 2:00am-3:01am PDT
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due to mature subject matter, viewer discretion is advised. i'm trying to make it easy. >> you're not going to get hurt. >> a distraught inmate is placed in the jail's restraint chair. >> i can't breathe. >> now staff must unravel the mystery of what has him so upset. >> please. >> how much time have you done in this jail? >> 31 years. >> a familiar face struggles to exit the jail's revolving door but there's a catch. >> he's islamic and wants to go into a christian program.
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that's a problem. >> another inmate has pled guilty to manslaughter but now in an unusual legal twist he may have to stand trial for murder. >> they had stated that i was a monster, thald go out there 1k3 that i would go out and kill somebody else again. >> a convicted murder stands trial for a gruesome related crime. >> god give me another chance. i said god is not here. many of the small towns in bergen county, new jersey, are considered wealthy suburbs of nearby new york city but bergen has a notable city of its own,
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hackensack. outside of downtown is the county's legal district home to its courthouses and the bergen county jail. >> it's a state-of-the-art facility. we currently have 277 sworn officers here as well as 58 civilians. >> and close to 900 male and female inmates. most have only been charged with crimes and awaiting trial for the resolution of their cases. many of those cases are resolved within days. but others can drag on for years. the challenge for those inmates is learning how to cope with monotony, confinement, fear and anxiety. some meet the challenge better than others. inside one of the jail's high security units, inmate paul
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dixon is having a difficult time. >> paul, nobody's hurting you. put your hands through so we can get you out of here. >> dixon is naked in what is known as a single person special management cell. he was placed there earlier in the day due to erratic behavior. his clothes were replaced with a tear-proof gown to prevent self-injury or suicide. >> originally he was in a mental health housing unit and medically cleared through a psychiatrist and put in the general population. he lasted about ten minutes and was flipping out. brought him back to medical. they placed him on special management. >> put your hands through. nobody is hurting you. paul, put the gown on and -- >> paul, i'm trying to make it easy. you're not going to get hurt! >> sergeant turry has decided to remove dixon from his cell and place him in a restraint chair so he can be safely evaluateded
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by medical staff. >> paul, relax. >> for legal reasons jail policy videotape incidents such as this one. >> relax. grab him. >> intake. >> go ahead. right there. >> dixon is back in jail on a parole violation. he had been sentenced to 101 days for third degree theft. he had prior convictions for theft as well. >> we have to put him in the restraint chair until he gets calmed down. evaluated once again by medical staff. >> paul, nobody is hurting you. we're here to help you. relax. look at me. a nurse will come in here and check you out. everything will be fine. >> oh, please. >> just relax, all right?
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>> relax, man. >> relax. >> for the safety of himself, staff, the institution, it's basically a cooling-off period supervised by a custody staff. medical checks him out. >> roughly an hour later the officers return. dixon has calmed down and they feel he's now ready to be moved back to his special management cell. >> we're going to take you out of the chair. we're going to bring you to south one. >> i want to stay in the chair. >> it's not what you want. you don't get what you want. this is -- you know, can't stay in the chair. >> i can't be in that room. i go crazy in there. i can't. please. >> what's going to happen? >> you put me in medical. i won't say a word. it makes me feel crazy. >> it's the same size room. you have a window. where you can see the outside. in medical you have no window. >> please.
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>> going over there you chill out. you need something you calm down. >> dixon continues begging to be else, where but after several minutes of coaxing, he agrees to return to his cell. >> paul, you'll see mental health tomorrow. >> in a nearby cell is edwin, a friend dixon met during prior stays here. he says he didn't know dixon was on the unit until he was awakened by his cries. >> my port was open. i looked. i couldn't really see his face but i remembered his voice. that's paul dixon. i know him. >> he was surprised dixon who has gone to jail numerous times before was so distressed. >> i'm not saying he's faking but sometimes you do stress out in here. some people are not built for this. >> he's going through some stress of his own.
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several weeks earlier he pled guilty to aggravated manslaughter for killing an 88-year-old world war ii victim. the victim who lived alone and was killed was described by his family as a vibrant and active great grandfather. >> i really don't want to go to hell for what happened. i'm really afraid. i don't want to spend the rest of eternity in hell. what happened was i was smoking angel dust and i ended up in one of my friend's grandfather's house. angel dust gets you really pair nad and i went crazy. i lost my mind. i went into the kitchen and i grabbed a pan, i hit him twice or three times. the velocity of it was so fast, was so hard, that the pot and stuff was bent. it was bent in. i heard him yell. turned around and i started running. i remember -- the only thing i
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vividly remember was his wallet. he had left it on the table. >> six days after the attack estrada was arrested when he attempted to use the man's credit cards. the man regained consciousness but died in the hospital. he told authorities he was sitting on his couch watching tv sxfs attacked from behind. estrada was originally charged with first-degree murder. in a deal with prosecutors he pled down. estra estrada's manslaughter and sentenced to 27 years in prison. but then his case took an unusual turn. estrada's deal was approved by a judge who was sitting in for the presiding judge while she was on vacation. the presiding judge returned she overturned the deal. she was persuaded by complaints
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by some of the victim's family members that 27 years was too light of a sentence for such a brutal crime. >> the judge is more towards the family. i understand you have to be sympathetic to the family. they stated i was a monster. i would go out there and kill somebody again. >> estrada will soon return to the court to see if the judge is open to a new plea deal or stand trial for murder. >> the judge she just wants me to do life. if it goes to trial, i'm screwed. >> coming up -- >> teaches you about paradise. that sounds good. right now it sounds good. >> edwin estrada seeks a new religion. and a talented artist with a gruesome past. >> when i finished, what am i going to do now? @ñ
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for the maximum security unit surprise searches for contraband are a regular part of life. >> shake downs here in the bergen county jail are performed on a continuous but sporadic basis. it's to catch the inmates off guard. >> i permanently don't like they get too comfortable being anywhere. i consider it my house and you're a visitor. you get in there and get too comfortable, too bad. >> we're looking for contraband. >> he use as weapon. grab somebody from behind. choke him. >> contraband can go from as far as a weapon and also excess. they can buy newspapers in commissary. if they have 50 weeks of newspapers, it's got to go. >> these guys are here for long term. they accumulate more stuff.
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>> today julio flores will lose some excess items in his cell. >> pack it up. >> inmates are only allowed two pencils. anything over that is confisc e confiscat confiscated. >> how many pencils do you think you lost today? >> six, seven pencils. it's very important the pencils. >> flores relies on pencils to create his art. it brings a small touch of beauty to an otherwise stark jail cell. he says it's a talent he only discovered in prison. >> god help me to draw. never draw in this way. god really show me his favor. even when you are a killer. >> flores may believe his art comes from god but says he was on his own five years earlier when he strangled his 28-year-old ex-girlfriend. i remember the words she said. god, give me another chance. >> while you were choking her? >> yeah. i said, god is not here.
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>> flores killed his ex-girlfriend inside his bronx, new york, pardon me. he pled guilty to second-degree murder and received a sentence of 19 years in a new york state prison. he's been extradited to new jersey to stand trial for a related crime. >> why are you in new jersey? >> for bringing the -- >> body parts. >> tried to hide it. >> flores admits that after he murdered his victim he dismembered her body. >> when i finished killing her, i say, what am i going to do now? something say, you got to got
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disappear. >> flores placed the body parts into a plastic bag and drove them to a home in bergen county, new jersey. and placed the bags in buckets. >> how many buckets? >> four buckets, five buckets in all. i used cement too, concrete to put, you know, all over in the buckets. >> the owner of the house happened to stop by. found flores in the front yard and questioned him. >> i said, listen, man, i got some body there. he looked at me. what? yeah. i killed my ex-girlfriend yesterday. >> now in addition to his conviction for second-degree murder flores is charged in bergen county with desecration of human remains. [ speaking foreign language ] >> though he's openly admitted to the act, this time he's pled not guilty and will soon stand
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trial. he says god led him to that decision. >> why are you always smiling in the newspapers? >> in the moment he forgive me my sins and i felt all my guilt is out of me. i'm so happy. i don't live with bad memories no more. i believe she's already free. god is love. >> while flores may face incarceration for the rest of his life, paul abdul wiggins hopes his days in jail is near are nearing an end. >> how much time have you done in this jail? >> 31 years. >> so you got 19 years on me. >> wiggins has pretty much been a regular since age 19. the jail no longer has his earlier mug shots on record but wiggins says if his all of his
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crimes have centered around a drug addiction. >> so this is every time mr. wiggins has ever been incarcerated in this facility and it's 10, 20, 30, about 40 times. when he first comes in, he's on edge. >> yeah, because he's high usually when he comes in. >> yeah, coming off drugs. >> he doesn't want to talk. doesn't want to be bothered. wants to be left alone. he's dope sick. then once he comes around he thaws out, usually pretty good. he's one of our frequent flyers, you know. >> wiggins says that after all these years he's finally had enough. >> next year i'll be 50 years old, man. this is the time that i'm really starting to wake up to all the things that i've been through in life. i'm finally at that stage where i see things so much clearer, man. i mean, a whole lot clearer. >> wiggins is currently in jail on his latest drug possession conviction. this time the judge gave him a
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choice, either serve five years in prison or enter a long-term residential drug rehab program. upon completion he would be released on probation. wiggins is working with staff to get placed in a program. until then, he must remain in jail. >> you know, sometimes it's difficult to explain, man, to people, you know, like how many times i've been in and out of this system. and it's sad really. times i've been in and out of now you see a guy that is anxious for change. i never thought i would live to see 30 but i'm here. i have a beautiful granddaughter that i'm crazy about. i want to be there when she graduates high school. i want to be there when she goes to college and graduates. i wasn't there for my daughter. and when i think about it, it hurts. she didn't deserve that. i was afraid to change at one time because i was so
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comfortable being where i was at. it just became an everyday routine. but now i'm willing to take that challenge. >> wiggins who works as an inmate food server has spent so much time at bergen county he sees staff come and go and advance up the ranks. >> you know there's lieutenants, captains, wardens, they were all officers when i first started coming here. >> paul, what's up? >> 25 years ago paul was a rookie here. now a lieutenant and is one of the jail's highest ranking officers. he's known wiggins his entire career. and says the younger version was a handful. >> it was a fight. everything was a fight. >> yeah. >> and, up, we wouldn't be standing like this those years. we'd be fighting, rolling around on the ground. and it took him a while, but i do believe everybody should be given an opportunity. he told me, he said he never had an opportunity.
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so he's getting one now. and i think if he walks the talk as he's talking the talk, he'll make it. yeah, i do. >> coming up -- >> okay, why are you picking these programs? >> the program has a lot to offer me. >> paul abdul wiggins pleads his case to a skeptical staff person. >> i promise you, i will not help you at all. >> and then officers get to the bottom of paul dixon's breakdown. your insurance company with the vin number. oh, i just did it. with my geico app. vin # is up to the loaded. ok well then jerry here will take you through all of the features then. why don't weeeeeeeeeeee go out to the car. ok, i'll just be outside... ok, yeah. his dad is my boss. yeah. vin scanning to add a car. just a tap away on the geico app. she thought she'd feel better after seeing her doctor. and she might have if not for kari, the identity thief who stole jill's social security number
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behind the walls of hackensack, new jersey's bergen county jail paul dixon recently had what appeared to be an emotional breakdown. he had just spent time in a mental health unit for a routine evaluation before being released to general population. a short time later, he began wailing and was placed in a restraint chair. dixon later calmed down and returned to his cell and now officers have determined the
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episode was not a breakdown but an act of manipulation. >> he definitely is manipulating the system. he was comfortable in the mental health housing unit and once he was cleared for general population, he realized that it wasn't too comfortable over there. so now he's doing his best to get re-evaluated and get put back in mental health housing. >> how much was real and how much was fake? >> um, all of it was fake, basically. i just -- it was like a whole act i was doing. >> why? >> so i could just get to the other housing unit so i wouldn't have to come to either here or go to some general population. >> it's not uncommon for inmates to want to spend time in the mental health unit. there's no cell, fewer inmates and it's a quieter setting. >> i just like it to be quiet where i could watch tv. >> you're a heck of an actor. >> thank you. yeah, i've seen a lot of people
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throw temper tantrums before, say that they're hearing voices and suicidal and all that. >> i'm sorry. >> if you're going to do something, you got to play it out to the fullest. >> while officers say they won't take risks if an inmate appears to be in a state of distress, it's not the first time they've heard one cry wolf. >> you just get to know after a while who's playing a game and who's for real, you know? it becomes a spidey sense, i guess. >> dixon never made it back to the mental health unit but said he's glad to be free of the restraint chair. >> trust me nobody can get out of the car seat, not the best of the best of the best. even if you're houdini, you can't get out of that thing. >> while inmates in this housing unit are only released from their cells for a few minutes at a time, they can visit with each other when they are out. >> what's up, man? >> dixon's old friend edwin
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estrada drops by. >> you were going crazy. you woke me up. pulling you out naked. seen your [ bleep ]. >> estrada, who admitted to killing an 88-year-old world war ii veteran with a kitchen pan is awaiting a new court date. his original plea deal was overturned by a judge for being too lenient. >> first off it was 27 years and i signed for it and she took it back. >> what did they talk about giving you? >> life. >> serious? >> yeah, bro. >> they can't give you life. >> yeah, bro. it's murder. >> how old was the dude? >> he was old. >> he confessed killing the man. it could result in a life sentence if found guilty. but he's equally concerned about what awaits after life. >> i really don't want to go to hell for happened. you know, i'm really afraid. i don't want to spend the rest of eternity in hell. >> i'm worried what's going to happen after my death.
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we're all going to die one day, but it's like, where are you going to go, you know what i'm saying? >> estrada was raised catholic but says now he's trying something new. the religion of islam. >> you know how you window shop, i'm window shopping. >> are you going to go through every religion and -- >> maybe. whichever one i'm hungry for. >> and of late estrada has been hungry quite a bit. it is the start of the mug limb holiday ramadan, which requires followers to fast every day until sundown for an entire month. >> you're supposed to be fasting. >> i never ate that baloney sandwich. you can ask 25. >> i feel more towards peace with islam because for some reason it helped me settle my anger sometimes and islam teaches you about paradise. right now it sounds good. i really don't want to go to hell. >> coming up -- >> you told me you want to be
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here are your top stories this hour. more ships arening sent to an area where pulses were picked up for a missing airplane. officials have not verified if the signals are connected to plane's black box. kansas legislature just approved a bill to override city and county gun restrictions effectively making it legal to openly carry firearms state wide. more news later. now back to ""lockup."" >> due to mature subject matter viewer discretion is advised. the original bergen county
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jail completed in 1912 looked more like an ominous castle compared to its modern replacement, which opened next door in 2012. paul abdul wiggins is one of the few inmates whose long record of coming in and out of jail spans both facilities. >> i'm a man of my word. i got to keep my word. that's all i got. >> wiggins has had more than 40 stays at the jail and a litany of drug, theft and robbery convictions, that he says all stemmed from drug addiction. >> i used to sniff heroin and coke. it was something i allowed myself to like when i should have been hating it at all times. >> now a 49-year-old grandfather, wiggins says he wants to change. >> i asked my creator to erase this taste from my mouth, take this taste away from me. i believe i'm strong enough now
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to fight that demon that's inside me. >> wiggins' opportunity lies in his sentence for his latest drug possession charge. his judge has told him he can either serve five years in a state prison or enter an approved drug rehabilitation program at a halfway house and stay clean. >> i think that somewhere in his life he's reached an epiphany, if you will. he can't do this. you can't do this your whole life or you end up dying in here or your family dies while you're in here. that's become very real to him as he's gotten older. >> wiggins' ability to get into a drug program lies with dawn who has tried to help him in the past without much luck. >> all right. i'm going to see, mr. wiggins. >> she's the jail's inmate advocate. part of her job is matching inmates with community resources. but she has a problem with wiggins' request. >> he's islamic and wants to go into a christian program.
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that's a problem. i know from my past experience if someone who is of a different religion goes into a christian program they usually have a problem following the spiritual guidance there. so that's why i want to find him someplace that will be more amenable to his faith. >> if you look at -- stop looking at half of the picture -- >> i'm not looking at half. i'm looking at the whole picture. >> no, you're not. >> yes, i am. >> you're not seeing it like i'm seeing it. >> that's the whole problem. you ain't been seeing it right for how many years? >> now, that was a low blow. that was -- >> you just said it. >> that was below the belt. really? >> why are you picking these programs? >> why? >> uh-huh. >> because the program has a lot to offer me. >> but the foundation that your faith is built on, the foundation, okay? >> that's the only thing we can -- >> yeah, but it's your foundation. >> but you know i don't want to go there because that's my old
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stomping grounds. >> okay. >> i'm too familiar with all that. i need to be somewhere where i don't know nobody, i don't know where i'm going. >> everyone wants to see him try harder this time. and like he said, he's done this before, so i want to give him a good start. i'm going to call the salvation army program. i'm going to ask them if they will accept someone who is islamic. if they say no, i'm going to let them know to take him off their list. now, if you come back here again, under any circumstance, i promise you, i will not help you at all. no matter how many lieutenants, captains or anybody who comes and says, you're going to help him, right? >> you know the sad part about it? i believe -- >> no, i'm telling you the truth. >> i know. >> i'm telling you the truth. >> i believe you. >> okay. >> i believe up. >> as wiggins waits to find out if he'll be accepted into the program, he continues his job as a food server.
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and this week that might be more challenging than usual. wiggins is observing the month long islamic holiday of ramadan and must fast until sundown. he converted to islam during a jail stay ten years earlier and took the name abdul. >> abdul means servant like serving god. when i'm living right, doing right and i'm on the straight and narrow path, i'm god's servant. that's why i chose that name. >> about 10% of the inmate population is muslim and for those who request it the jail provides that halal meals that meet the religion's dietary requirements. >> it's blessed. like kosher. that's what makes it special. it's prad over. it's blessed. >> got to wait for another list. so i know i try. he can't wait. >> look at him. he can't wait to eat.
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>> 19 hours. it's driving me crazy. >> edwin estrada said he embraced the religion because among other things, he fears going to hell as taught by his catholic upbringing. this inmate has served as a mentor but said he has to keep an eye on estrada. >> you got to watch him. he asked me for canteen. he asked me for honey bun. but you have to fast. >> estrada hoped he would find peace in islam but not so sure he's cut out for it. >> i'm not going to do it. >> i've been telling you that. nobody can force religion to you. i've been telling you that. you know, you wanted to -- you told me you want to be muslim. i said, all right, that's fine. but then you act all, you know -- >> yeah, i'm too immature, that's the bottom line.
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every day at 4:00, wash my hands, my feet, wash everything, pray, and i have to do it again three hours later and all of that. and just too many discipline for me, up. i'm done with that. i don't want to act like i'm somebody that i'm not anymore. you know what i'm saying? and i'm not going to do it. you're not going to ask me -- >> you asked the entire time he was telling you -- >> you're not going to catch me at 4 a.m. praying one day, facing that way, you see what i'm saying? >> it's not in that way. it's this way. >> you're right. my fault. it's been a while since i prayed. >> you probably never did. >> outside the unit, wiggins continues his food delivery round. he only delivers trays to the housing unit, and that's a big relief, especially when it comes to one unit. >> i just bring it to this door and that's it. that's a rap. i don't go in there. lockdown, max. that's max. only killers in there.
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i'm not a killer. >> one of those convicted killers is julio flores. after strangling his ex-girlfriend inside his bronx, new york, apartment, he pled guilty to second-degree murder and sentenced to 19 years to life in a new york state prison. he was extradited to bergen county to stand trial on an additional charge, desecration of him remains. earlier today it took a jury less than two hours to find him guilty. >> tell me when when you first heard the verdict and what your reaction is. >> i'm so happy. really, i'm so happy. something touch me. i can't explain. and i feel like, happy. i can't explain. it's out of this world. all people look at me like crazy. >> you're at peace? >> yeah. i'm right in the hands of god. >> flores was sentenced to 20
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years in the new jersey state prison system, which he will only serve if he is ever released from prison in new york. ironically, he could serve a longer sentence for desecrating his ex-girlfriend's body than he will for murdering her. >> are you so sure, though, you've been forgiven for your crime and how? >> of course. >> do you think you'll see your victim in heaven? >> that's not depend on me. >> do you want to see her in heaven? >> if god wants, it's all right. >> what would you say to her? >> what am i going to say to her if i see her in heaven? i think everybody when you go to the heaven is already forgiven so you don't need to ask for forgiveness. just hold and love them. they say like god loves you and that's it. what am i going to say, oh, sorry for killing you? no, you don't need it because it's already done. >> coming up -- >> inmate estrada came to me
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earlier about feeling depressed. he suggested if inmate sanchez could be his bunky. >> edwin es strat da requests company but might receive more than he's par begined for. >> i've never seen anyone clean like that man cleans. fifs able to take him home, i would take him home and allow him to clean my house because that's how good of a cleaner he is in here.
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and says he's changed his tune. he's also gotten his clothes back. >> i guess i was in the chicken soup, graduated back to the orange uniform. behaved. >> how does it feel to be in this? >> much better. i learned that if i ever do come back which i'm not going to come back to jail i'll do at any time right way and take it like a man. it's not worth it putting these guys through all types of hell, you know. >> dixon is in jail on a probation violation for third degree theft but will soon be going home. >> i went to court today and they granted me time served and they terminated my probation, so i'm waiting a little bit. probably another hour or so i should be going home. and now i can see my kids, see my family again and work my way up, get back into school and be successful and accomplish things in life. i'm too old to be coming to jail.
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so, take that advance and don't come to jail. >> dixon's friend edwin estrada faces the possibility of never living in the free world again. he will soon appear in court to learn if his judge will entertain another plea deal or order him to stand trial for allegedly killing an elderly man with a kitchen pan. >> i really do feel bad for what happened. inside it's hard to live with. at first when i first got here, i was sort of in denial. i was like, i don't need to be here but in the back of my head i'm like, somebody died. i need to pay for what happened. i think that's the reality of things. i messed up so much in my life that sometimes it's like, could it get any worse, you know? i really don't think it can get any worse from now. i don't want to sit here and jinx myself but that's how i feel. >> good luck. >> estrada had hoped his conversion to islam would help relieve his stress but he
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recently decided it wasn't for him so he's looking for other ways to cope with stress. >> i feel like i need a bunky. i'm losing my mind being by myself. you want company. you need somebody to talk to the express how you feel. >> estrada came to me earlier about feeling depressed, not talking to anybody. he suggested if inmate sanchez can be his bunky. if it helps estrada out in any way, it helps me out, you know, bays got a lot of things going on. we don't want any suicide attempts and stuff like that. >> get your stuff. you're going to 48. >> now? >> yeah. i got to clean the room it's dirty. >> he clean. >> sanchez is known at the jail for being clean, very clean. >> i've never seen anyone clean like that man cleans. >> yeah, i was going to clean our whole room because sanchez needs to come in. i want to clean it up before he moves in. my mom told me, when you clean, you have cleaner energy, you feel better and stuff.
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>> sdrou any concerns about them bunking together? >> no, not at all because sanchez, he's a good worker. estrada sometimes he gets depressed every once in a while and they can watch each other. >> shortly after sanchez moves in, there's a problem. >> he didn't give me a chance to scrub the floor. >> it's not clean. >> you know we got to do that when we come out right now. >> we got to clean. that's it. >> that's what depression does. >> you see my toilet? >> he's the cleanest man on this unit. >> you see my toilet and the sink? not like that, bro. >> inmate sanchez is a unit worker. we need to keep the units as clean as possible. and he does the best job out of all of the workers that we have. so i use him as often as i can. he'll go in and scrub from ceiling to floor. and i mean, the ceiling, the walls and takes the squegee down
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all the walls, the bunks get clean. >> the smell is good. >> i'm telling you when he leaves it's clean. i even allow him to clean the officer's bathroom because he does a good job. if i was able to take him home, i would take him home and allow him him to clean my house because that's how good of a cleaner he is. >> is your room clean? yes, clean. very clean. >> so, edwin did you count on this? >> no. >> coming up -- >> i want to get something like 15 to 20. >> i just want you to be realistic. >> a counselor tries to temper edwin's high hopes before he heads to court to learn his face. and -- >> two of my greatest fears is me dying in prison and my mother passing while i'm in here. i don't ever want that to happen. >> paul abdul wiggins stares reality right in the face. @ñ
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compared to prison where the inmates have all been sentenced and know how long they will serve, life in jail is a world of uncertainty. but nearly every day resolution arrives for someone. >> paul dixon we're going to take you out of the share -- >> i can't go in there. i'm claustrophobic. >> paul dixon put on a show in order to manipulate his housing assignment. >> you're going to south one and if you cause problems you'll end up back in the chair. >> it didn't work. but one month after that incident, he's a free man. >> paul dixon, he violated probation for the original charge of third-degree theft and was released yesterday. >> dixon will still be on probation but now he has another chance to make it on the outside. the future seems less bright for his friend edwin estrada.
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after admitting to killing an 88-year-old man by striking him numerous times with a kitchen pan, estrada's plea deal of 27 years was revoked by a judge who decided the sentence was too lenient. estrada is hopeful for a new plea deal, bit also faces the possibility of going to trial for murder and a potential life sentence if found guilty. >> hi, frankie, it's jackie from mental health. how are you? i'm going to be coming down to see estrada. >> helping him through it is mental health technician jackie gill. >> because edwin is facing very serious charges and his case has taken some twists and turns that we didn't expect, i've been seeing him the whole time he's been here. >> good morning. >> we just worked with the possibility of life. that's the reality he's going to prison for a long time. so to skirt around that issue would do him a disservice. >> i'm working to try to get something like 15 to 20 with this new attorney. >> that would be a lot different
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than -- >> i would happy -- >> -- what we planned for. >> i wouldn't be happy. i would be content. >> how realistic do you think that option s the lower end? >> the lower number? >> i just want you to be -- you know, we talked about this all the time, as being realistic to what the situation is. and realistic of all the possible outcomes. >> yeah. >> so, you know, whereas 15 to 20 would be great, we've also talked about 28 and we've also talked about 40 and life. >> that's crazy. >> it is crazy, but -- >> there's no way i'm going to accept a plea deal for 40. i might as well go to trial. that's crazy. i'm not going to do that. like you say, have you to be realistic. at the same time i need to look at both sides, you see what i'm saying? i have to look at being realistic and i have to look at being hopeful and stuff. >> there's always hope but it's a slippery slope because you don't want to bash their hope or hinder their hope but you got to balance it with the reality.
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>> hopefully everything goes well because i can't do life. >> the next day estrada leaves jail for the court hearing that will change the rest of his life. >> the victim's family, i guess they want me to do life. if i was in their position, i could see where they're coming from but i just don't think i deserve to do life. >> just before he enters the courtroom, estrada is summoned to a private meeting with his attorney where he will presumably learn his fate. moments later he has his answer. >> there's no deal today. they want to bring me to trial. i'm fine with that, you know. >> i thought earlier you said you weren't? >> i guess i can't do anything about it, so i have to accept the fact that i'm going to trial. if i lose, i end up getting probably life.
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>> estrada was 18 when he was arrested for this case. the same age as paul abdul wiggins when he first came to jail on an armed robbery charge. that was 31 years ago. and wiggins has been in and out of jail 40 times since then. but he says now he's finally ready to take advantage of the opportunity afforded him to do better. though she had some concerns about his muslim faith being a good fit, inmate advocate dawn was able to place wiggins in a christian-based halfway house where he will receive drug counseling, job training and life skills programs. >> today the lieutenant called me down and informed me that i was is going into the program and i should be leaving sometime next week. so i'm just hoping the program is right for me and do me some good because this ain't doing me nothing. i heard a lot about the program.
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i heard like a few guys that went there, they told me the program is good and they can help me, so -- i need help. >> this is your first program. all the years you've been going through us and coming through here, this is the first time you're ready for a program. >> two of my greatest fears, is me dying in prison and my mother pass while i'm in here. i don't ever want that to happen. >> that's motivation. >> so, before i start -- >> go ahead, go ahead, my man. >> y'all be good. >> all right.
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due to mature subject matter, viewer discretion is advised. >> gang members disrupt the housing unit. >> they all feed off each other. one kicks in the door and they all join in kicking and screaming. >> when inmates fled their cells, the search team takes action. and they place one in special restraints. >> [ bleep ] drop you first [ bleep ] >> [ bleep ] [ bleep ] >> i told them in the hallway i
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