cut! [bell rings] this...is jane. her long day on set starts with shoulder pain... ...and a choice take 6 tylenol in a day which is 2 aleve for... ...all day relief. hmm. [bell ring] "roll sound!" "action!" are they closing in? for a second straight day crews searching for flight 370 detect electronic pulses underwater. a small army of ships and aircraft are narrowing their search zone. house of the holy? an atlanta archbishop on and his $2 million mansion. and academy award winning directors joins me to discuss his new documentary, a candid profile of defense secretary

drums fe donald rumsfeld. >> if seems if that decision had gone a slightly different way, you would have been vice president and future president of the united states. >> that's possible. >> hey there, everyone. it's high noon here in the east. welcome to "weekend with alex witt." breaking developments in the search for missing malaysia flight 370. more acoustic events have been reported in the hunt for the jet. an australian ship reported hearing signals after a chinese ship reported hearing two signals. >> i think the fact that we've had two detections, two acoustic events in that location provides some promise, which requires a

full investigation of the location. >> and in kuala lumpur, almost all of the chinese families of those on board the flight are returning to beijing. katie, good evening to you. what are officials saying about these acoustic signals? >> reporter: well, there's three separate acoustic signals they're hearing. one we talked about yesterday found on that chinese ship. another one that same ship heard this morning, about a mile away from the original noise and yet another on an australian ship 300 nautical miles away from that. now, the chinese say that the noise that they're hearing is the same frequency of the ping of a black box. black boxes ping that specific frequency because it's unlike anything else in the ocean. the chinese say they're hearing that but there are a lot of skeptics out there who say the chinese just don't have

sophisticated enough equipment on board those ships to hear anything of that nature. they'd be very surprised if they were able to hear a black box. 300 miles away on the australian ship "ocean shield," it is carrying a naval device called a pinger located. on that ship they also heard a noise. that was this morning. not much more information out of that. all the leaders are saying you should be very cautious when dealing with this. so far nothing has been confirmed to be part of mh-370. they want to make sure people don't get overexcited by it, saying a lot of these noises will be heard in the weeks and months ahead and not to get their hopes too much up until they are confirmed. the chinese families, a lot of them who were here have already gone back to beijing. they say they're not getting enough information out of kuala lumpur and they might as well go home. they don't want to get their

hopes up because they've had so many false leads in the past. >> understandably so. so many questions still out there. thank you for that. let me bring in editor and chief of "flyer" magazine. take a listen to what they're skying about the acoustic signals. >> this is an important and encouraging lead. >> do you see them as being important and encouraging? >> yes, i do. i've been really skeptical of finding the downed plane but this is an important lead. there is a chance that the pings they heard with 37.5 kilohertz. if it's true, it can be nothing else but that. >> really? there's nothing else that will put out that sound?

>> the one other possibility is that they're somehow creating that on artifact themselves through the search. so it's not a certainty but if it's really an external signal, other things could conceivably but in the mid of the indian ocean, it's extremely unlikely it would be anything but the plane. >> okay. another thing, though, that is most curious is you have the chinese ship having detected in about a 24-hour period these two signals. they heard the first one for a minute, minute and a half. they left the area. i don't know why they didn't turn around and found it again and then you hear it again 24 hours later. you have the australian ship 300 miles away detecting a similar sound. does that add up to you? >> it doesn't add up at all, alex. you're right about that. somebody has to be wrong here because you're not going to hear the signal from 300 miles away. the one wild card here is are the chinese really hearing what

they say that they're hearing? and we don't know and i don't know the nature of their technology but i doubt very seriously they have the same technology that we have with the pinger listeners that the united states navy has developed. that is really the wild card here. if it's not really that frequency, we might have had one promising lead from the australian ship and that might help us refocus it. >> the other thing you have to take into consideration are the variable of the depth this plane may be resting. in order to hear that ping, you would have to be sitting right on top of the location, correct? and in addition, the length of time that ping has been emitted since the crash 30 days ago, is the signal strong enough to get through two miles of water? >> well, actually, the 30-day figure that we've been quoting for the past month now is really

the safe margin figure. they normally will continue to broadcast that ping for another eight to ten days afterwards. through this first 30 days we'd expect to hear pretty much full power from that beacon. >> okay. robert, thank you so much for your insight. >> thanks, alex. >> one year after president obama and cia director john brennan said that major changes were coming to the drone program, it appears little has changed. joining me now, democratic congressman adam schiff, members of the intelligence committee and appropriations committee and a good friend of this broadcast. welcome and nice to see you. >> good to see you. the cia may just be better at drones than the pentagon and foreign governments don't want

the u.s. military operating in their back yard. was all the talk last year just lip service or did the administration not anticipate these problems? >> i don't think it was just lip service. i think the administration really doves want the defense department to be handling military operations and that really makes seasnse. it makes sense because the military can do its core operations so from the point of division responsibility, it really makes sense to have the department of defense doing all of these military operations. there are bureaucratic delays in transitioning to only d.o.d., but i hope those can be overcome and i hope we can be more transparent about the program as well. i've introduced a bill to require an annual accounting of how many civilians and how many combatants are killed so we cannot on hand ourselves to the

standard of no civilian casualties but also because we're not going to be the on country that employs this technology in the future, it's important we set a high example. >> that bill has a five-year retroactive period so you can find a pattern. there's an article "let the military run drone warfare." there was the wedding procession in yemen back in december, can they really handle it? >> well, a lot of the claims and i can speak to any particular strike, a lot of the claims that our adversary uses, they claim it was a purpose, so you can't believe every claim.

but there are injuries. this has been tactically a very important tool in taking militants off the battlefield but strategically in terms of the bigger picture, it been a mixed bag because when we do have civilian casualties, it can general rate a lot of animosity toward the united states by the family members of those lost, as you can imagine. >> you had to explain to someone that you had met, a yemenies civil engineer how come two of his family members were killed in a drone strike. what did you say to him? >> it was very hard. i couldn't tell him exactly what happened to his family members. it's not something i'm able to disclose and it's not something our government has disclosed and so it very difficult. he had family members that were lost. he's asking for answers. he also came to washington to put a very human face on those

numbers, on those statistics which can become impersonal when they're looked at in the aggregate. i think it was very important to have a chance to talk to people who are affected that way. and i think he recognizes, as many do, that there are some really bad actors where this is an important tool and we don't want to risk american lives trying to put them in these dangerous places where arrest or capture is simply not feasible. but nonetheless, when it's a member of your family, as it was his, that's at the wrong place at the wrong time, reportedly that's a very painful and difficult thing. >> john brennan has said the cia's folks on drones has come at a time that's a detriment of spying. apparently the u.s. is surprised by russia's annexation of crimea. you just returned from ukraine this week. what did you find when you got there? >> a very tense situation with tens of thousands of russian troops outside the country and russian clandestine forces

working inside ukraine to destabilize the population, very sophisticated russian propaganda, very sophisticated efforts to justify further military action. i'm very concerned that the sanctions we put in place thus far really haven't been enough to deter russia. we look at other countries around the world, china, for example, is watching what we do, watching how much we stand up for the assurances we gave as a part of that budapest memorandum when ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons. and japan is looking at this as well, deciding what kind of a military it needs to build and how it can rely on the united states or not rely on the united states. >> is it a bit dangerous to try to isolate an economy of that size that also hold as seat on the u.n. security council? in other words, we have to work russia for the greater good

often through the u.n. security council. >> that's true but i think really at this point the congratulator danger is failing to act strongly enough and encourage further russian belligerence. there's only one thing i think putin respects and that's strength. and unless we show strength here, i think he'll bein cour i encouraged in places like moldova. i think the greatest risk is doing too little, not doing too much. it's true we're going to need to work with russia in situations like syria and iran. but russia will do what's in russia's interest to do, regardless of how we respond in ukraine. i think a very strong response is required here. >> democratic congressman adam schiff, thank you so much. >> one of the most coveted jobs in tant is up for grabs. >> and later the new documentary

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yeah, we do propose to repeal obamacare because it increased medicaid by 33%. we don't think that's a smart way to go, to throw more people into a program that's already going bankrupt. >> that was house chairman paul ryan, talking about his budget that is dependent on a full repeal of obamacare. joining me now is the man i trust most with my economic questions, as always. you've called congressman ryan's budget a highly pessimistic

vision. why is that? >> because of instead of meeting the challenges that america faces, whether those challenges be helping low-income people, trying to reduce poverty, inv t investing in education, investing in our infrastructure, investing in our future, it a budget that cuts extremely deeply, particularly for programs that help the very kinds of folks i was just references. almost 70% of his spending cuts come at the expense of low-income programs. and then he goes ahead and cuts taxes, particularly at the top end of the scale by $5 trillion over ten years. now, he said he's going to pay for it somehow, but it's a big imagine being asterisk as we say in the budget world, without one loophole mentioned he's going to close. i think it's an extremely upside down vision of where we ought to

go. >> can you figure out how he paid for it? >> no. i think that's the problem. when you say that you're going to cut taxes by 5 trillion over ten years, you really have to say how you're going to make that revenue neutral, that is how you're not going to lose all that revenue, how you're going to make it back. what he says is we'll close loopholes. okay, tell me one loophole you're going to close and we can't find it in there. >> the democrats say this election will play is central role in the mid term strategy but do you think it could be a rallying point for fiscal conservatives? >> there are very conservative fiscal policy types that are arguing he doesn't cut enough. so i think it's -- ryan himself -- representative ryan will tell you himself this is not a real budget he thinks is going to be fact enacted.

repealing obamacare doesn't seem all that realistic. it's a very dark and pessimistic vision an america that can't face the challenges that really loom out there. >> let's switch to the jobs report from march. it came out on friday. we have 192,000 new jobs. how do you look at this report? how do you interpret the numbers? >> i think it's a broadly positive report, kind of a steady as she goes. now, i'd like to do better than steady as she goes. so are others who are waiting for that unemployment to come down so they face a tighter job market, but that's a pretty decent clip in terms of employment growth. the fact that the unemployment rate didn't fall in this case was because there were a bunch of people coming into the labor market, about half a million, and it looked like many of them found work. so that's the kind of jobs report that is what we need to

at least hold steady. now we have to do better than hold steady. i'd like to see faster growth. most industries added jobs. manufacturing has been the exception. that's been a little slow lately. >> i don't mean to contradict but it seems like a bit of a drop in the bucket. because the big headline was all the jobs lost in the great recession have been recovered but there are still 10.5 million americans still looking for a job. when do we see it recover to pre-recession levels? >> that's a great point. as i tied to suggest, you're looking at a report that is a solid report with some job growth at a decent clip. we need to do better than that. simply getting back to where we were, private sector employment is now back to where it was before the recession six years ago. it's never taken since years just to climb out of the hole. we need to do better than climbing out of the hole as your question suggests. unfortunately, it's going to be

a couple of years of growth of this magnitude if we're going to get back to a tight job market to lower unemployment and that's why we need that employment growth to accelerate to do better than we did last month. >> jared bernstein, thank you very much. >> anyway pleasure. >> how the civil rights act to provide a blueprint for passing immigration reform. that's straight ahead. scott: seems there's a wee bit of confusion out there when it comes to grass seed. "what if i forget to water it, scott? will it still grow?" roll the clip, jimmy. scotts wraps each seed in a brilliant coating that feeds, protects, and holds in moisture. so growing thicker, healthier grass is easier - even if you miss a day of watering. now let's spread your newfound knowledge! get scotts turf builder grass seed with water smart plus. it's guaranteed. seed your lawn. seed it! anncr: to keep your new grass growing strong, feed it with scotts starter food for new grass.

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7-2. so who is the favorite? >> thank you, ladies and gentlemen! >> oh, yeah, it's steven colbert. the timing may be right since his contract with comedy central ends in december. he brought "shark tank" to american tv and produce are mark burnett tops the list at hollywood celebrity prayers, gordon ramsey comes in second and ryan sea crest ranks third. >> and it's captain america. the winter soldier, looks like the sequel will earn $90 million to $95 million this weekend and that would be the best film opening in april ever. when you only have one hand,

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with alex witt." a memorial service is scheduled for wednesday to honor those killed and wounded during this week's shooting at ft. hood. specialist ivan lopez was under psychiatric treatment when he brought an unregistered gun on base wednesday, opening fire and killing three. chairman of the joint chief of staff talked about new calls to arm those on military bases. >> i think we need to review the security procedures. i'm not one, as someone who has been on many, many bases and posts, that would argue for arming anybody that's on base. i think that actually invites much more difficult challenges. >> witnesses are saying an argument over a paperwork something or other to leave the based sparked that shooting spree. >> presidential elections are being called a success in afghanistan today. it's expected to be six weeks before the ballots are all

counted. >> and a baby girl in argentina became the first child of a same-sex couple to be baptised by the catholic church in that country. same-sex marriage has been legal in argentina since 2010 but is not sanctioned by the church. >> theresentiment on the left that president obama is not setting his sights on bigger targets and today he is being called out on immigration. ladies, welcome to both of you. beth, i'll begin with you. this week the senate is going to be voting on the paycheck fairness act. does it have a chance if it gets to the house? >> it has no chance. nothing that this president wants to pass has any chance passing this congress. his taking the executive action route is probably the best and only route he can go. he can't accomplish that much. he really does have to go

through congress on most big things. but to the extent he can draw attention to the congress's intransigence in issues like unfairness in women's pay, it helps women. >> and it will require the labor department to provide a salary data by sex and race. can this piecemeal approach make a difference or is it largely symbolic sm. >> i think the president hopes he'll set an example and that he might encourage other businesses to follow. for example, on the mame minimum wage -- minimum wage, he took a symbolic action that only affected contractors but then gap followed up. he will have a lilly ledbetter

with him at the signing. congress pa she's kind of a heroine and shows what can be done if the president and others take action. >> let's go to immigration here. i'll start with you, eleanor, on that. the "new york times" editorial board today has written what is titled "yes, he can" on immigration. they write it has been frustrating to watch his process on yes, we can immigration reform. all mr. obama has been saying lately is, no, we can't because republicans in the law wouldn't let me. is immigration reform possible with this congress and with this white house? >> i must say as we look ahead to the november elections, you would think that the democratic

party, they want to get out their base. their base includes a number of minority people who are sympathetic towards immigration reform. so i'm kind of puzzled that the white house hasn't been talking this up more than they have. i think they still have this sort of faint hope that there can be a coming together on the house side and they might literally get legislation. i they they should give that up, i think they should work it hard for the november election to rally their base and maybe if there's a lame duck session after the election, there might be a chance for immigration reform because republicans will then be able to take a longer view, they'll be thinking more 2016 instead of more narrowly how it affects their particular congressional races in the 2014 election. >> as i look at the language in this op-ed, this is very strong. they write the neonatoist

republicans. >> there's legislation being introduced in the house now to not even allow immigrants who are serving in the military to get provisional legal status. this is a very, very intransigent bunch of house republicans. it true the president can't do a whole lot around immigration reform without them. i think eleanor is right. there does seem to be in our reporting some sliver archchance that something could pass out of the congress, very much scaled down from what the senate originally passed -- >> this year? >> you know, there's a tiny little hope and i think there's some sense they don't want to thwart that. it's a huge political problem now for the president because he needs, as eleanor said, to invigorate the base. the base consist of a number of hispanics and others who have

come to this country and want to see some fairness around these issues. meanwhile, the president has presided over an awful lot of deportations. that "new york times" piece you referenced makes a point about that. why is he so intent on deporting so many people while at the same time being so gingerly handling the issue of trying to pass comprehensive reform? >> this is a conversation certainly to be continued. ladies, thank you so much. >> all you "west wing" wing fans remember the character danny, right? >> this bill really created modern market, changed the country forever, when our children can't imagine a time when it would be illegal for a black person to sit at a lunch counter or stay at a hotel. there's still a long way to go in terms of economic equality

and access to economic opportunity. that is one of the things that president obama tries to remind people, that the job is not finished. we have a black president but the whole question of civil rights and equal rights is not finished. >> and look at 1964 being a very transformative year for this country as well, how did that cross roads create the america that we have today? >> it was the kind of high water mark of agreement and consensus on these issues. the next year the same players came back to pass the voting right act, because the civil rights act had not really applied. but from that point on the consensus in washington and in the country on the questions of race and civil rights really began to splinter with questions like affirmative action and bussing and the rise of the black power movement and eventually the terrible provisions of the vietnam war. so also a poignant moment, the last happy time in a way. >> and i look at this book and

the title "an idea whose time has come," do you find similarities to current situations like gay marriage, immigration, things like that? >> i do find similarities and i think it's fascinating to see how quickly the public attitude on gay marriage has changed in recent years. it took much, much longer. it took 100 years for attitudes to chang after the civil war. one of the crucial coalitions that lobby for the civil rights act was a broad group of interfaith religious groups, who put pressure on members of congress, who had a lot of methodist and presbyterians and catholics. you would think some think some kind of same lar -- if i were an immigration advocate, i'd be trying to do something like that. >> people who know about you and dee dee and people who were

"west wing" fans, were you the inspiration of the character danny? >> i never was involved with dee dee. i had no idea what i was doing. it was on months later at a book party for mutual friends and that's when we started talking and our relationship -- but i never gave her goldfish of any kind. but it's amazing to me how popular it is. i talked to younger people who have rediscovered it on dvd or youtube and they are in love with it. our own children love watching it and i think it will be a show that will be watched 25, 50 years from now as an example of what politics could be at its best in america. >> what's next for you? >> i don't know. we have the mid terms coming up.

i'm running around the country promoting this book. have i to think of another book to write because i've enjoyed the process of grappling with a project that's just between you and yourself. i also enjoyed doing the research of washington 50 years ago. i'm open to suggests for the next topic. if any viewers have any ideas, let me know. >> stay with msnbc for coverage of the civil rights summit kicking off tuesday in austin, texas, a commemoration of johnson's signing of the civil rights act 50 years ago. >> academy award winning filmmaker errol morris is going to join me for a fascinating look enside the mind of donald rumsfeld. >> why the obsession of iraq and

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see if your business qualifies at startupny.com >> i think i'm going to see if i can get the president's attention, remind him our planes are being shoot at, remind him we don't have a fresh policy for iraq, remind him we have a range of options. not an obsession, a very measured, nuanced approach, i think. >> that was a clip from the documentary "an unknown known." donald rumsfeld one of the key architects of the iraq war after 9/11. he was interviewed on a wide range of tom ipics, including h

justification for going to war against saddam hussein. joining me, acclaimed filmmaker errol morris. welcome. >> thank you for having me on this morning. >> an entire decade has passed. do you get any sense that donald rumsfeld has any res for or regret? >> i get the sense he has no regret, no remorse. >> at all? >> at all. >> i looked at a quote that came from the documentary when he talks about the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, interestingly quoting carl sagan, who used that in justifying there was life on other planets. was that a nons sequitur?

>> obfuscation, whatever you want to call it. here's a guy who doesn't care about evidence. that's a very, very scary thought. >> secretary rumsfeld talks about the so-called torture memos of the bush administration in your film. let's play a clip of that. >> well, there were what, one, two, three. i don't know the number. but there were not all of these, they were mischaracterized as torture memos. they came not out of the bush administration, they came out of the new york department of justice. >> do you think this could trigger a reexamination of the iraq war? >> it would be my hope. i know a lot of people feel this was ten years ago, let's completely put this behind us. i feel otherwise.

i feel that this was a disastrous episode in american history and that we should try to come to grips with it and better understand it. >> if that's your insennive for doing the film, what was donald rumsfeld's? did he know you had that approach to making the film, using the word disaster? >> clearly no. i've heard people say that here is a man stonewalling in the unknown known. i look at it very differently. here's a man who seems actually out of touch with reality, perhaps a man who just doesn't care one way or the other. >> something very interesting, you highlight a story about donald rumsfeld someday being president, had the gop ticket back in 1980 gone a different way. let's play that. >> my phone rang. it was governor reagan. he said, don, i want you to know

that i decided to have george bush be my vice presidential nominee. >> it seems to me that if that decision had gone a slightly different way, you would have been vice president and future president of the united states. >> that's possible. >> did he go any further into this issue with you? did you get a sense at all that it something he's thought about often? >> we're talking about an extraordinarily ambitious man. a number of people have said to me that this is the true house of cards. if you really want an insight into how washington works and how things are done, watch "the unknown known." >> when he was doing his press conferences back in the day as

secretary of defense, he was very popular with the american people. he was brash, he'd be short, he called out reporters. did he talk at all about that persona that he developed? he knows the interpretation has changed since, does he not? >> he didn't talk about that persona. he manifest it temperature he was loquacious, charming . he cooperated fully with the movie, but in the end i was left with a disturbing feeling that i was talking to a man who want completely there. >> errol, has he seen the film? has he commented on it? >> he's seen the film. he has sent me many memos, donald rumsfeld memos known as snowflakes commenting on what he

liked, what he didn't like. i had final cut. i tried to be respectful, i tried to listen to him but in the end this is for better or worse my movie. >> well, i'm sure it will be well received by a lot of us out here. errol morris, thank you very much for your time. "the unknown known" is in theaters nationwide and is available on itunes and on demand. >> can one republican sender fend off the entire tea party? a live report on the battle in the blue grass state next. i take prilosec otc each morning for my frequent heartburn. because you can't beat zero heartburn. woo hoo! [ male announcer ] prilosec otc is the number one doctor recommended frequent heartburn medicine for 8 straight years. one pill each morning. 24 hours. zero heartburn.

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a david versus goliath crime rate battle is going on right now, that is a coordinated effort to unseat a republican. we're talking about the minority leader of senate, mitch mcconnell, the longest serving senator in kentucky history, who finds himself in a heated and at

times bizarre fight against a tea party candidate devin. i'm joined by benjie. i know you were at that rally. explain the scene to us, this effort to unseat mcconnell. it stretches well beyond kentucky borders, doesn't it? >> this was held by a national tea party groups, freedom work, which is one of many groups backing the effort to unseat mcconnell. the holy grail is mitch mcconnell. they really believe if they can send a message to washington republicans by knocking off the current minority lead, then they'll give vastly more power to senators like ted cruz, rand pal, mike lee, all of whom i heard mentioned over and over again at this event, tho he

thi -- who they think are willing to mousse more extreme politics. >> glen beck was calling mitch mcconnell a big of a danger to our country as barack obama. is that the prevailing sentiment? >> at this rally, definitely. it wasn't just that. glen beck went on to say he thought matt bevin was "called of god" to defeat mitch mcconnell. this is almost a religious fervor, the idea that you have to purge the republican establishment before you can move on to address the democrats. but there's this new generation coming up of kofrt senators who think that the tactics are very important and that it's possible to push the democrats further if you're more willing to accept very difficult showdowns, like shutdowns or a debt ceiling

fight. >> so the tenor of things, you have the tea party challenging matt bevin. he's been making headlines at a pro cock fighter rally. can you explain the nature of this race? >> it's been very ugly from the start. this is not the first time it's turned on some rather bizarre incidents that have gotten pretty far away from the normal issues you'd associate with a campaign. this week for those of you paying any attention to espn is final four, kentucky played yesterday against wisconsin, everyone is just crazy about basketball in kentucky, and mitch mcconnell accidentally was supposed to air foot and of kentucky's championship team in his campaign ad aired footage as duke. recently he attended a rally to

legali legalize cock. i talked to bevin about this and he said he had no idea that's what the rally was about. it's taking an odd turn. >> do you think democrats have a chance to win this seat? >> they definitely believe they have a strong chance. one of the reasons they're so confident is that mitch mcconnell is a very, very tough campaigner. you see the damage he's done to matt bevin, who is trailing significantly in the polls. he's taken him apart, labelled him bailout bevin, whenever there's an incident like this cock fighting incident, he jumps in. but allison grimes has been mostly unscathed so far. they think they have a good chance to take out mitch mcconnell. >> thank you, benjie. why tomorrow could be a pivotal day in the trial of oscar

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the malaysia air mystery deepens. first it was one ping, now it's three pings. but does that all add up to new clues? >> it's a cry for freedom. even the nation's leading newspaper demands president obama make it happen. >> man and his mansion. he's moving out amid an uproar over his state of affairs. >> and oscar pistorius is expected to take the stand tomorrow. what can we expect him to say? >> just a bit past 1:00 in the east. we have breaking news to report. australian officials are calling it an important and encouraging lead in the search for malaysia airlines flight 370. they say a chinese ship in the search area has detected not one but two acoustic events about 24 hours apart.

and an australian ship detected an acoustic event today, though about 300 miles from where the chinese detected a signal. >> up to ten military aircraft, two civil aircraft and 13 ships will assist in today's search, which will cover an area of 200 kilometers. >> ian williams has the very latest now from perth, australia. hi, allen. >> good evening to you. the race is on to see whether either of these are related to the black box of mh-370. the first detection was by a chinese ship on friday and saturday in an area about a thousand miles from perth, where the waters have a depth of

15,000 feet. the second was by the u.s. ping locator, which is being dragged by an australian ship. and that was about 300 miles away from where the chinese detected their sound. now, both are being investigated. the australian agency overseeing the search said today they were both important. the chinese data it said was an important lead but they needed to be verified and the retired australian air marshall who are is overseeing that agency said there would inevitably be a lot of leads over the coming days and weeks. he said as in earlier stages of the search, it had to be verified, we had to be careful and cautious. we are now very aware that the battery in the black box flight recorder may only have days left. and so this search really is taking on a new urgency now, pursuing every single lead they

can, alex. >> ian, thank you so much for that. >> let's go to colleen keller, senior analyst of metron, inc. she worked on the air france tragedy. >> i know the detections have been occurring at the frequency for the black box frequency. it's a very unique frequency so they is to take them seriously. both ships were separated by 300 miles and they both heard something that could be the ping per pinger. it can't be both of them. >> i don't mean to parse words, though, but you say eight very unique ping, this 37.5 emission. is it an exclusively unique ping to a black box?

>> it manufactured to ping at that frequency so that nothing else sounds like that and operates at that frequency. that said, can you get things like harmonics or other transitory sounds that might pass through that frequency that probably don't sound like that ping or look like it if you look at it on a spectrum analyzer, you can look at other properties of the signal that are very unique to the box. unfortunately from what i gather, the chinese did not record the signal that they got so they can't look at the properties of the signal to verify it. literally to verify that hit, they're going to have to hear it again with something more sophisticated to actually record it and it might not come back. >> they said they did hear two acoustic events 24 hours apart, one measuring in length about a minute and a half. is that time enough to establish what it could be? and why after a minute and a half, colleen, would they not turn around? why in a minute and a half would it go away and still be the

black box? >> that's a great question. why did they just detect it for a minute and a half? it should be a continuous signal. but you can't discount anything. i wouldn't be surprised even if they don't hear anything in that vicinity again that they put an unmanned sub down with a camera because we have to investigate. >> this whole investigation, how does it compare to what you experienced in your analysis of air france flight 447? >> there are similarities. a big difference here is for the air france search, we were searching a very contained area. the whole area that it could have been in was a 40-mile radius circle in the middle of the atlantic in the middle of the equator. compare that to what we're looking at now in terms of square mileage and it like night and day. we did look with sonar over a

great part of that area before we finally found the wreck. here you don't have a lifetime, you don't have enough equipment or patients to cover the whole indian ocean. you can't do it by brute force. >> colleen, the fact that we are 30 days into that plane going off the grid and you have the life span, the battery of the black box, the emission of the ping, if it is not found relatively soon, before that ping were to go out, do you think we'll ever find that plane? >> i hate to say it but it would be a minor miracle if we did find it. i just don't think we have enough localizing information to give us a prayer of putting the cameras and side scan sonar in the water close enough. it really does come down to can we narrow it down to some extent and then do we have the money and the will to keep going? it could go for a couple years but i think it would be a wonderful miracle if we did find

it at this point. >> colleen, many thanks. >> in the past hour the u.s. navy completed its rescue of a family stranded at sea with a baby that developed a fever and rash covering most of her body. that boat became disabled about 900 miles off new mexico. the baby is headed for medical treatment. >> hundreds of protesters marched across the country on saturday demanding action on immigration reform. president obama has advocated fixing the system to reflect american values, blaming congress for not passing any meaningful legislation. >> the president plans to introduce new executive acts over equal pay.

>> the strong advocate helped put together the enhanced interrogation program. some people call it torture. it wasn't torture. we were very careful in all respects to abide by the law. we got legal opinions out of the justice department with respect to what we could do and what we couldn't do. >> i was stunned to hear that quote from vice president cheney just now. if he doesn't think that's torture, i would invite him anywhere in the united states to sit in a water board and go through what those people went through, one of them 100-plus odd times. that's ridiculous to make that statement. that was torture by anyone's definition. >> kristen, let talk about the next step here in the latest on declassification of this process

and the debate. where does it go? >> first to the debate which you bring up, former vice president dick cheney defending itself because parts of the senate report have been leaked and they're expected to show the interrogation tack telecommunication were much more harsh than reported and it going to question the link between the interrogation program and actually gaining credible intelligence. so it is an incredibly divisive debate, democrats entering it obviously, house minority lead are nancy pelosi earlier today continuing to use this as a political football. listen to what she had to say. >> many people in the cia are so patriotic, they protect our country in a a way to avoid conflict and violence, et cetera. but the attitude that was there was very, i think, came from dick cheney.

that's what i believe. >> reporter: and pelosi there referencing the former vice president's attitude. mo mike rogers answering pelosi, urging restraint, saying lawmakers shouldn't turn this into a political issue. to your question about what happens next, according to a white house official, quote, the cia in consultation with other agencies will conduct a dechasification review. the president has been clear he wants this process completed as expeditiously as possible consistent with national security and that's what we will do. now, there are questions about how much of this report will be redacted and concerns that if a fair amount of it is redacted that some key components will be missing. democrats pointing to the fact that these programs started before president obama and that he ended them once he got into office. >> i also want to ask you quickly about the white house, the announcement the president

will take executive action on education and fair pay. there's an editoria that argues the president should take similar action on immigration. can we expect anything new on m immigration reform? >> they have been hammering the white house to say isn't there more you can do unilaterally to get -- the answer is there's very little legally that president obama can do on something as large as immigration reform. president obama has urged the dncht o.j. to look at ways that the administration might handle deportations more humanely. the question is what does humanely mean and will that actually mean there will be

fewer deportations? that's the big question mark. in terms of immigration reform, it seems as though the only way to get anything substantial done there is through congress. right now the bill and the legislation in congress is dead locked. doesn't seem to be going anywhere. >> i talked to beth earlier and she said there's a very sliver of hope that something could be done. >> what could be a contentious vote this week could loom large in the battle for congress. and it not a who done it, it's a why'd he do it . dp ention. thousands of products added every day to staples.com,

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paul ryan defended his new budget proposal that will come up for a vote in the house this week. >> we do propose to repeal obamacare because it increased medicaid by 33%. we don't think it's a smart way to go, throw more people into a program that's already going bankrupt. >> joining me now, john delaney. nice to have you on the show. >> nice to be here, alex. >> to democrats see anything in this budget that could be any part of a compromise deal? >> this is not a serious budget, it's a political budget. it makes very bad policy decisions. one of the issues i have with it that is most troubling is it has a very bad analytical framework. the goal he sets for his budget is to have a goal of zero in ten

years. we're only mid way through the demographic changes going through this country, where the percentage of seniors in our country is doubling and putting huge pressure on the government. in reality what our goals should be is to get our deficits in the 1% to 2% range in terms of the size of our economy and have our economy grow at 2% to 3% a year and that would involve our debt going down over the long term. that should be our goal. we don't need as a goal to get to get to zero. i understand why he does it, because it's a good political talking point but it with very significant risk to the country, in other words to set a goal that's too ambitious. if our economy grows 2 to 3% a year and our deficit grows 1 to 2% a year, our debt goes down and it will go down to get into normal historical levels. if we try to get it to zero within ten years, particularly in the context of the dem graphs

we face, you have to overcorrect to get it to zero. you have to either raise taxes a lot or reduce spending a lot. mr. ryan doesn't raise taxes. our tax rate for the last self year has been lower than it's ever been. in order to get so zero when you want to reduce taxes, you have to utterly and entirely cut spending relating to seniors, the poor and our kids. i don't understand why that's a good policy decision. >> he said he's going to close loopholes without saying which loopholes. so that is unclear. what this does make clear is that in no uncertain terms, republicans are not giving up on

obamacare. what would be the impact of doing that now and is there even a prayer that it would happen? >> of course there's no prayer it could happen. the president is not going to approve overturning obamacare, nor should he. and this is more of the flawed intellectual framework in the ryan budget. he repeals obamacare but embeds a bunch of the savings that obamacare is driving. so you kind of can't have it both ways in life and i think mr. ryan is try doing that in his budget. but the cuts to the spending, we need to really put this in context. if you look over 50 years, the historical average for amount of money we've invested in education, infrastructure and basic medical research and these nondefense discretionary spending historically has been about 3% of our economy. this budget bring it s it down 1.7%. it almost cuts it in half. i don't know anyone with reasonable cognitive ability looking at what's going on in

the world and our competitiveness and what's happening with globalization and technology who thinks we should slash investments in infrastructure, education and research by half. >> i'm listening to your analysis of all of this and it's clear to me that democratic leadership is going to look at the ryan budget and it's going to play a major role in the mid-term strategy. but are you at all concerned this could be a rallying point for conservatives? >> i'm not concerned it could be a rallying point for conservatives. from a public policy perspective -- listen, the debt is a problem. we need to lower the debt as a percent and of the economy across the long term. if we don't do that, we'll lose financial flexibility as a country, particularly if interest rate goes up. but the way to do that is to focus on getting the annual deficits at level below economic growth. for the past kind of ten years

they've been above the level of economic growth, which is why the debt has grown. if we get the deficits below the level of economic growth, if you assume we can grow the country 2% to 3% across the long term and if you get the deficits to 1% to 2%, then the debt goes down. that should be our goal. we shouldn't try to get to zero. but getting to zero, you have to do what mr. ryan wants to do, which is basically destroying public programs. >> aiding and abetting osama bin laden. that's next. it's not so smart then, is it? (laughter) nice phone, dude.

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when navy seals raided bin laden -- "the wrong enemy" takes a close look at the afghani government. you were told the pakistan intelligence agency, the isi, had a special desk devoted to handling bin laden. who told you this and how close were they to him? >> the i.s.i. were completely controlling him. they had a deniable operation, a single man operating a desk but he was protecting bin laden.

i can't tell you who my source is because it's extremely dangerous for people in pakistan, for journalists and for anyone who might want to be cooperating with americans or talking to foreigners about what is a very, very secret strategy, which they defend and keep under wraps. >> what's interesting is harboring bin laden -- what is the country's motive for supporting these groups? >> well, they've done it for years and they started doing it against the russians when the russians invaded afghanistan. that was defense of pakistan because the military dictator at the time said they would become the next pakistan. and then it became i think a military strategy that went out of control and the military is

running all these proxy agents to fight in afghanistan and defend what they regard as their back yard and to keep as an annex. >> were they afraid of another war? >> that was the most interesting detail i got. when you looked at that house and i went to the house after bin laden was killed, you noticed there was no escape route no, back door, no tunnel. when i talked to counterterrorism officials, they said we saw the same thing so we reckon he was planning to be warned and forewarned by his protectors and handlers. that made the americans looking at it to avoid telling people

before the raid because they didn't trust them. >> would an honest war on terror have included pakistan? >> absolutely. because what happened as we know is the taliban fell quite quickly within months and al qaeda troops with them and they all moved across the border in pakistan. within months i was going to pakistan and finding people were talking about all these foreigners who were in the mountains along the border and the taliban who were regrouping. and then for ten years president karzai in afghanistan was talking about it. not enough was done to stop that. they regrouped and they grew and they radicalized a whole region and now they're really a much more formidable force than they were in 2001. >> i'm sure you've seen the striking cover of the pakistani

edition. what's been the reaction? >> people are ready to believe it and read it and say i've got to the essence. you understand that it all there, it just that reporters can't report it because they're frightened. there of course is a lot of reaction against it and denials from the military, which is what i expected. >> i know that yesterday -- you know rather that the presidential election happened in afghanistan. when you put all of this together, the new president, the withdrawal, threat from the taliban, all that together what is your outlook for afghanistan? >> it both hopeful and nervous. the election yesterday was terrific. much higher turnover than in previous elections so that's very good. the youth are very motivated, excited people and choosing a new leader. there's also the great fear because there are areas where

people didn't dare vote, they couldn't get their finger with indelible ink on it because of taliban threats. we had terrible violence in weeks running up, especially in kabul when i was there and then thee two colleagues that got killed, reporter colleagues. so there's a sense that, yes, the taliban is still going to come and try and regain control, certainly of large territories of afghanistan after the withdrawal of foreign troops. it going to be very rough, though, for many years. >> you mentioned the two colleagues, kathy gannon severely wounded. >> your thoughts? >> i was with them just last week. kathy's been reporting it for 30 years. anya is a formidable dynamo of energy and we had a lot of laughs and we were really excited about the election.

we had a few good days and then i fly to the states and wake up and hear they've been shot and anya killed. really, really terrible. >> i'm very sorry for your loss, all of us for the loss of two great journalists. best of look with the buook. thank you for your time. what can oscar pistorius say in his testimony that could answer the big question? that's next. gunderman group. gunderman group is growing. getting in a groove. growth is gratifying. goal is to grow. gotta get greater growth.

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because of a future schedules -- scheduling conflict, it could be a pathologist to testify. the double amputee has already admitted he shot reeva steenkamp. >> after the first set of shots, there was definitely a female screaming. and then the shots and then quiet. >> it's not a who done it, it's a why he did it. the evidence for why came from reeva steenkamp herself. in four emotional messages in the weeks and days before the

shooting, steenkamp complained about her boyfriend's jealousy, public tantrums and constant criticism. >> i'm tired of how you snap at me. i just want to love and be loved, be happy and make someone so happy. maybe we can't do that for each other because right now i know you're not happy and i'm certainly certainly very unhappy sand sad. >> the defense would say the vast majority of e-mails describe a relationship that was happy and loving. >> can't wait to see you. would you like me to pick you up? outgoing response, i really can't wait to see you and another one from the deceased, i would love that, angel.

>> reeva steenkamp can't speak anymore but oscar pistorius can and it's his likely testimony that can help determine whether he walks free or spends at least the next 25 years in prison. reeva steenkamp of course cannot speak for herself but oscar pistorius can speak and he will. and how he testifies, how persuasively he testifies, could help determine whether he walks free, or spends time in prison only on firearms and equivalent of manslaughter charges or spends the next 25 years in prison for first degree murder charges. >> joining me to talk about the next step in the pistorius trial is faith jenkins. what is the legal strategy behind pistorius not appearing on camera and only testifying via audio? >> well, he doesn't want to be seen. but the judge will be in the courtroom and watching his every

move. the people in the media won't -- he wants to be able to be forthcoming and not be nervous about all the eyes looking at him. but is really only one person and she will be watching his every move and that is the judge in the case. >> you see reeva steenkamp saying at one point she was scared of pistorius but also how sad she is and how they're not making each other happy and that's all she wants to do. how does he overcome this image through his testimony? >> those text messages are pretty significant. prosecutors don't have to prove motive, right? that's a big issue in this case. why would he do what they are alleging they did, so those tex messages back up the prosecutor's story that this wasn't the loving, committed relationship he wants everyone

to believe they were involved in. so not only will he be questioned about those text messages but he has to be -- they're seeing some issues here he has to overcome. you can believe he's going to put his best foot forward in terms of trying is that re. >> if you're the prosecutor, how do you approach it? what's the tenor of your questions? what might you even ask him at first? >> i think they'll be very aggressive. when he takes the witness stand, it going to be his time to tell his story. >> but theth they're going to ask him how is it, sir, that you do not know where your fiancee is and do you close and locked, open fire?

and how are you in this loving, committed relationship when she just told you a days before she was afraid of you. and the neighbor who is said they heard the arguments and the screaming. well, he's going to may not. >> what is your greatest concern in pistorius testifying? >> his story has to be believable. you think about the charges here. it not about who did it. >> pistorius was aing this was how this happened and how it was and -- his credibility means everything in terms of if the judge believes him or not. >> how much do you think think

his status as a super star helped him? >> because there is no jury, i think that is a significant help to the prosecutors. usually when you have a big celebrity, that is big deal for them. people don't want to look at this superstar athlete that so many expect and here you have a professional jurist. this is a woman who has heard trials and seen murder trials and sort of heard it all. so his celebrity act factor is not going to be as much of a significant factor for her. she's looking at the evidence, listening to fax, making a determination in court as to whether she's sheing.

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it is time for "the big 3," religious freedom, mansion mistake and must-reads. let's bring in our panel. hello, all. nice to have you with me. >> hello. >> it's nice, the weather outside is really lovely. let's go to religious freedom first of all, guys. republican governor phil bryant signed a religious freedom restoration act. critics say it's so vaguely worded, it could lead to state sanctioned discrimination of gays. what is different in mississippi that led to this bill succeeding versus what we saw happen in

arizona? >> governor brewer vetoed the bill. i firmly do believe in the separation of church and state. however, as a gay american, i'm also an individual who does not believe in discrimination and does not believe because i am a gay american i should be discriminated against if i go into a bakery that is owned by evangelicals and i'm turned away because of their religious beliefs. this is a struggle for me. >> interesting you bring that up because arizona governor vetoed her state bill because of just what robert was saying. this doss this apply in mississippi? >> mississippi is not getting a super bowl. this is a waste of time for the

mississippi lawmakers. they're going to pass a law that would never stand up to any sort of legal scrutiny. think think this is a waste of time it, hurts the state and there are better things for the governor to be doing. >> in fact, though, the mississippi governor has signed this bill for other states to poll suit? >> i think what it dots -- does is pushes for vetoes in other states. this is exactly what they were looking for as the next step to bring this legislation to other states. this is not just arizona and mississippi. this is where it's been tested and either failed clearly or was successful clearly. but there is legislation like this in other states and i think that it is really, really important that mississippi took this move because it really would embolden, you know,

efforts to try this in other spaces. >> okay. let's go to this other one, mansion mistake, all right? atlanta's catholic archbishop on said he's decided to sell this $2.2 million mansion after a bunch of criticism by his prishiers. it was a very wealthy gift and let's listen. >> you want to be able to entertain at the house, including barbecues and pizza parties and sometimes it's just gathering for tea. >> i've been a parishioner at the cathedral for 36 years. i have never been invited to anything at the archbishop on's home. >> i think that when you're in religion and politics, you're held to a different level of accountability. >> well, archbishop on wilton gregory has apologized for building this mansion in the first place, though he said he

only lived in the small part of it and the rest was being kept for this i guess, pizza parties that never happened. what do you think of all this? >> it's really hard to keep you have bishop eddie long, he should have given the mansion back. it was extremely problematic and there's a difference of a catholic archbishop and a pastor. it's a good idea to get rid of it. this is not the attention they need down here or any other part of the country. >> and saying that he'll take the proceeds and donate it to the catholic church and priorities and different programs. robert, you have pope fran cis saying they want a church for the poor. he lives in a guest room instead of the vat ran palace. how does the situation in atlanta mesh with the message that the pope is trying to push? >> obviously in direction contradiction. he is someone that lives by simple means.

look, that was a boneheaded mistake by the archbishop of atlanta. even if in fact the pope wasn't preaching about austerity, the image of literally tens of thousands of school children that are being shut out of catholic schools because of the arch dice ses and others, that's not the image that the church should be projecting at this time so it was a boneheaded mistake by the archbishop and whether it's pizza parties or teas or whatever the case may be, that's ridiculous for anyone to have that type of lifestyle. >> that being said, just to flip the coin here, there are a bunch of other leaders in this country who run churches, earning millions of dollars a year and have massive media empires. is this archbishop held to a different standard? >> i think the standard is the

standard of pope francis and i think that this is a pope that is, you know, a pius pope, a peoples' pope and the fact this is no longer acceptable for the archbishop of atlanta i think just really kind of speaks volumes in the way that people are measuring the message of pope francis today. >> okay. coming up, a wish list and the nation's hottest politician. the big three's must read sunday next. [announcer] if your dog can dream it,

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we are going back to the big three now for the must reads. ladies first. when's yours? >> elizabeth warren is a rock star politician. the quinnipiac poll has her as the hottest official there is right now and not running. >> okay. that's good. we're loving that. >> jason, how about you? >> yes. it starts with oscar pistorius and you in the future.

2016, the first cyborg olympics will be happening in zurich. those people that lost limbs, injured in wars and things, implants, extra arms and legs, compete for gold medals. really exciting and a great article. >> where is that? kind of cool. >> going to be in zurich and people to sign up now, be organized and people disabled they can control robots with their fingers. >> wow. robert, what about yours? >> philadelphia inquirer has a story of a man sentenced for 30 years in prison for a crime he did not commit and a friend created a wish list of things on amazon and needs and wants and leaving prison with not just four cents the his name but an open heart about forgiveness and can you imagine 30 years in prison for a crime you did not commit with four cents to your

name and leaving prison with an open heart? >> good ones, you guys. thank you for bringing it. that is a wrap of this sunday edition of "weekends with alex witt." up next, "meet the press." have a great day. the job jugglers. the up all-nighters. and the ones who turn ideas into action. we've made our passions our life's work. we strive for the moments where we can say, "i did it!" ♪ we are entrepreneurs who started it all... with a signature. legalzoom has helped start over 1 million businesses, turning dreamers into business owners. and we're here to help start yours. on buying a car for...ers into business owners. when i was introduced to truecar,cess.. i didn't have to second guess myself. i felt more confident... in what i was doing. truecar made it very easy for me... to negotiate what i wanted, because i didn't really need to do any negotiating at all.

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