11 kids. 93 years old. a life well lived and certainly loved a lot in that lifetime. >> yeah. >> and judy garland. such a relationship it for "wa too early." "morning joe" starts now. ♪ in a candidate run with a hopeful optimistic mess agmessa hopefully to get people to know it's not just idle words, can one do it joyfully without tied to all the convention of the politics of the hearing now. we need to elect candidates that have a vision that is bigger an broader and candidates that are organized around winning the election. not making a point. winning the election should be what we're about. winning allows the big things to get solved.

>> that makes sense. good morning, everyone. happy monday. it is april 7th. the u.s. ambassador to sweden's birthday today. happy birthday, mark. with us on set we have mark barnacle. hi, mike. the president on council of foreign relation. richard n.haass. his book now out in paperback. and from washington "new york times" reporter jeremy peters. hello, jeremy. >> good morning. >> all good, joe? >> all good. tonight a big night tonight, man. >> what's the big night? >> should i turn to willie for this? >> yes, please. >> a big night tonight, man. this run by the kentucky wildcats. >> oh. >> my dad smiling down from above. >> oh, the connecticut. >> they take out louisville amazingly. they take out michigan with a buzzer beater. and then willie this wisconsin game. what a great game. unbelievable, man.

>> it was a great basketball game. >> these are all freshmen. they're all freshmen. it's just -- >> this shot that you're about to see, aaron harrison, a freshman. a twin. one of the two harrison starters for kentucky. 19 years old. for the third consecutive game makes a shot almost exactly like this. he did the same thing against michigan and won like that against louisville. and that sent them to the national championship game. it's an uncredible run. the fab five lost that game. kentucky is now favorable to win tonight. >> it won't be. uconn will win. >> everybody had written them off. >> you want to put money on it, joe? >> yes. >> they were not a team anyone was talking about coming into this tournament. now here's kentucky in the final. and by the way the uconn women's team in the final tomorrow night against notre dame.

two schools playing for the -- two teams playing for the national championship. >> mike calipari. it's unbelievable what he has done with this team. >> yeah. maybe it's time for people to stop crushing john calipari. he plays according to the system. it's the nba decrees that people can go from the freshmen year into the nba. this guy has led this team. he calls a critical time-out a minute and a half into that game. people say why is he wasting that? he did it to regroup his freshmen. >> it's unbelievable. >> coach cal, go. >> uconn will win tonight. okay. let's head into the news. former governor jeb bush says he will decide whether to run for president by the end of the year. while celebrating his father's presidency.

he laid out a plan for what the party should look like. he also waded into the issue of immigration keenly aware of the political hazard that comes with it. >> i'm going to say this and it will be on tape and so be it. the way i look at this is someone who comes to this country because they couldn't come legally, they come to our country because their families, you know, a dad who loved their children was worried that their children didn't have food on the table. they, you know, wanted to make sure their family was intact. they crossed the border because they have no other means to work to be able to provide for their family. yes, they broke the law, but it's not a felony. it's kind of -- it's an act of love. it's an act of commitment to your family. i honestly think that is a different kind of crime that should be -- there should be a price paid, but it shouldn't be -- it shouldn't rile people up that people are coming to this country to provide for

their families. >> i think that makes sense. >> what do you think, mike? pretty attractive. >> human, actually. >> can he withstand the gauntlet of the primaries, of the republican primaries? that would be my question to him in his candidacy especially after he speaks like this. >> richard? you spoke like this on reform and he said he'll make a decision by the end of the year. we'll see what the reaction is in the republican party of 2014 and 2015. you can speak about these issue, take these positions in this way and survive or even thrive as a candidate. but i thought it was an interesting moment in american politics. >> i thought it was too. my reaction is not going to be popular around here, i'm sure. i mean, i understand what jeb's saying and i certainly -- but it is still a crime. and people crossing the border is still a problem. and ronald reagan did this back in the 1980s, granted amnesty.

and when he granted amnesty, it led to even more problems. more people coming across the border. so, i mean, he certainly has the right to believe that. and i think a lot of americans would agree with him. and i certainly understand that as well. but there are a lot of us who believe that if the first thing you do when you come to america is breaking the law, justifying it because you're doing it out of love may not be enough. is it the worst thing that happens in america? no, it's not. i'm just explaining -- i can't speak for the rest of the republican primary voters. i will tell you when i hear that, i -- you know, my first feeling is not the same warm, oozing feeling i would think most people in manhattan or georgetown would have. i'd go, well, i understand but it is breaking the law. not to be the fly in the soup. >> but the issue is how -- but statistically now the issue is less and less people are coming into the country illegally.

because that's not happening. the real issue now is those who are already here. and that's what this really speaks to, it seems to me. because of demographic changes in mexico, because of the economic improvement in mexico. people coming across the border is no longer the issue. the issue is who do we do with the 12 million that are already here. >> and my point, mike, just to make sure that my words can't be twisted any more than they're already going to be twisted is that it's about fairness at e end of the day. the position i was in when i was a younger guy, i had people dying to come to america to get their family members to america, to get their children to america. but they weren't in mexico. they were in pakistan or they were in ukraine or somewhere else. and they couldn't do it. the ins took eight, ten years to get them into the country. my issue has always been an issue of fairness. do i think america is big enough to absorb them?

yes. we've done so for 200 years. i'm glad people want to come to our country. but there is a fundamental issue of fairness about the person who has a daughter in pakistan who's wanted to get his daughter to the country for 11 or 12 years, he's been jerked around by the federal government, hasn't been able to do it. i just have a problem with somebody walking across the border and politicians in washington saying that somehow the guy's love for his daughter in mexico is more important than the guy's love for his daughter in pakistan. and that is a thing that always gets to me. >> a lot of people who live outside of the upper west side of manhattan will have a similar issue. but the larger issue is the series of congress to deal with this to come up with a comprehensive program to allow people to say we have a front page story in "the new york times" about deportations following minor crimes. immigrants here illegally are being deported back to their country of origin. the problem is that congress has

not dealt with this. we are not going to be able to promote everyone here that is here illegally. and the fear factor also. they're here to take your job. they're not here to take your job, but you get to a critical issue. why is it that someone who graduated from m.i.t. or stanford, you know, who would be a wholly productive member of the country, you got to go back. >> you send them home to compete with us and take american jobs. >> i think he's testing the waters, testing the base, perhaps. >> he looks like -- compared to the rest of the republican field right now he looks like tom hanks in the cast of "game of thrones." >> you get to the politics of it and he's doing what he should do. and he's also bringing a human edge to it which i think the party could use. and there are, you know, our country is based on a history of people wanting to be here because it's a better place to

live. and so why would you blame someone for wanting that for their family? i think that's pretty -- because we could debate immigration for the next three hours. i don't think we want to do that. in terms of the politics of it, what's it doing? i think it's smart. >> i think it will sound reasonable to a lot of people but there's no question if he runs for president we'll hear act of love in a lot of ads. remember when rick perry in the debate in 2012 said you don't have a heart if you don't think that a child of an illegal immigrant should get in-state tuition. there's no question this will become an issue for jeb bush if he runs. >> speaking of 2016 candidates, "the washington post" is reporting on the lengths the potential presidential kds are going to to speed up domestic foreign policy. the would be contenders are peeting with pundits, authors. it reads in part to get schooled on foreign affairs, new jersey governor chris christie has been

consulting with henry kissinger and condoleezza rice as well as council on foreign relations president richard haass. wait a minute. because richard goes to you for advice. >> he does. >> i'm confused. so this is sort of like a circle of love we've got going on here. >> sometimes i give richard really bad advice and he takes it back to the candidates. it's very subversive how this is happening. so, richard, this happens to you every four years. you have candidates that are running for president, they come to you. >> and actually, just to be straight about it, i talk to people on both sides. council of foreign relations, we are genuinely nonpartisan. i am happy to be spoken to. people like condi rice, people on the other side, there's a wealth of talent. we need people who are running for president who are prepared on these issues.

>> take us inside. who's the dumbest candidate? because there are a lot of dumb candidates out there. i love these people though. you don't have to say any names, but there are a lot of dumb guys that say i want to be president of the united states and they actually -- they have absolutely no idea. >> we don't have enough time for this. >> okay. so here. here are the eight. of those eight, who's the dumbest one when it comes to foreign policy that knows less than the other? >> i mean, really. >> just rank them one to eight dumbest. >> i will say as we look at the "game of thrones" cast, we have eight people up there. i will say and marco rubio from what i read in this article and what i've been hearing, marco's been working pretty hard surrounding himself with the right advisers. is taking this pretty seriously whether it's to be a presidential candidate or senator who knows what he's

talking about. as far as his prep work, sounds pretty impressive. >> he has. and he's really been beefing up his foreign policy credentials. no doubt about that. but what that's about largely is he needs to put immigration behind him. you know, if we look at what jeb bush said, i think i would go back to your point about how much trouble that's going to cause jeb in a republican primary. what's interesting about what he said is he's using conservative language there. when he's saying this is an act of love. these people want to keep their families strong and together. that's ultimately a very conservative argument. now, i don't know if that's going to play with republican primary voters. i mean, look at what they did to marco rubio when he came out for immigration reform. he suddenly went from golden boy to pariah. now, that said, if jeb can get through a republican primary, i think there are a lot of republicans from what i'm hearing who still believe that

even with chris christie in the running, if chris christie is a strong candidate, jeb is still the one who has the best shot at beating hillary. and that's what republicans believe. >> okay. well -- >> i think so. >> -- we shall see. i don't think hillary is going to be the only one. just wait. i want to move on to other news. tactics used by the cia spilling into the political arena. the agency concealed details about how severe its methods really were. it also suggests the quality of intelligence gained from detainees were not as important as suggested. although the report isn't even out yet, the backlash has already begun. >> they have made assumptions and leapt to conclusions that cannot be substantiated. this is not the holy grail. why now into an election year

would you bring this up? >> i read an article earlier this week. he said that senator feinstein wanted a report so scathing that it would ensure that an un-american brutal interrogation would never be considered or permitted. now, that sense, that motivation for the report may show deep emotional feeling on the part of the senator. but i don't think it leads you to an objective report. >> well, the report -- first of all, senator feinstein replied saying in part objective on fact thoroughly footnoted, will stand on its own merits. from everything i've heard from the beginning and i've heard this over a year now is so skewed. and there is such cherry picking in this report that the republicans walked away from it. saxby chambliss walked away from

it. said if you democrats don't want to tell the truth, great we're walking away from it. we'll see what happens. it's -- richard haass, why don't you say something here. you talk to candidates. that makes you a source of information. >> for saying the report was based on emotion? >> that kicked off a fire storm on the use of the word emotional. but, look. >> people from california are just more emotional. >> we're not even going to go there. the -- what i think people have to do in this is put your heads back to where we were a decade ago. >> right. >> after 9/11 when there was a fear of future 9/11's and sure the united states did things in which in retrospect are highly controversial. you can argue about them, but i think it's hard 10 or 12 years later to look at these things and say all these things were flatout wrong. >> richard, diane feinstein,

nancy pelosi, jay rockefeller, and a cast of other liberals that were shocked, shocked, shocked that this was going on in 2005 and 2006 when the report started coming out were fully briefed on it in 2002. diane feinstein in particular knew it had more information about what was going on. and jay rockefeller as well had -- they all. all the liberals that are acting so shocked safely removed from 9/11 were the very ones saying what else can we do in 2002? this is preposterous. this is -- you know, they ask people to go out and try to save americans from the next 9/11 and they get information and then a decade later when they're trying to cover their ass they put out a skewed report like this. that is a political statement and a political document.

it's outrageous and it's disgraceful. and the truth will come out what they were saying in 2001 and 2002. history books will reveal it. they knew everything that was going on. and to do this even five years later, especially ten years later, is a disgrace to the men and women that put their asses on the line to stop the next 9/11 from happening. and while they were doing it diane feinstein, nancy pelosi, jay rockefeller and all of these moral giants were saluting and asking what else could be done. and now they're shocked? it's disgraceful. >> mike? >> to his point it was an entirely different country we were living in for two years after september 11th. i'm wondering with all of the anecdotal evidence that's been in the papers, what do you hear about the relationship and the flash point between senator feinstein and john brennan?

>> well, diane feinstein is still waiting for her apology. she has asked the cia to apologize. >> for what? >> remember this blew up a couple weeks ago when the cia had looked into what senate -- into senate computer to see what they were investigating. so diane feinstein has not received that apology. and i think that that incident more than anything else has really changed the tenor of this whole situation. until they can get past that -- and i don't know if they can right now, it's still a very poisoned relationship. until they get past that, this will be the norm. coming up on "morning joe," senator chuck schumer president and ceo of the marc morial and alex salmond. but first here's a check of the

forecast. >> birmingham alabama this morning, take a look at this picture just sent out this is the apartment complex just across the way from her. this is happening right now. his is the birmingham fire department in the boat rescuing people in here. these are the rooftops of vehicles and cars. you can see the water line right through the bottom level of all of this apartment complex. so the middle of the night, dangerous situation there. it's not just birmingham. we've got flash flooding through much of mississippi. this storm has lingered all weekend long. these storms are pouring on the region. everywhere in the maroon colors is flash flood warnings. not only that, we had a tornado overnight just in the southern portions of mississippi. it was a strong tornado. mostly in rural areas. it did take out a couple homes,

one church, and a couple mobile homes. no fatalities reported. we still have a tornado watch until about 9:00 or 10:00 a.m. central time this morning. there's the one tornado report just to the southeast of jackson. and by the way, all of this severe weather will slowly shift to the southeast and east coast during the day. so from virginia beach to columbia to a van gnaw, all of the carolinas, a slight risk of thunderstorms today. the rain in d.c. will be moving in at the end of your morning rush hour and up towards new york city by the time everyone drives home. atlanta, georgia, you're in the rain and thunderstorms. much of the severe weather, though, and the tornadoes and flash flooding should stay to your south. you're watching "morning joe." ahhh. beautiful day in baltimore where most people probably know that geico could save them money on car insurance, right? you see the thing is geico, well, could help them save on boat insurance too.

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"the new york times" officials searching for the flight 370 say they have their best lead yet looking at signals from deep in the indian ocean. >> significantly this would be consistent with transmissions from both the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder. clearly this is the most promising lead, and probably in the search so far it's the -- it's probably the best information that we have had. >> the signals were picked up about 1,000 miles northwest of perth, australia. that's along the flight path that satellite suggests the plane may have taken after veering far off course. the batteries on board the recorders are for 30 days. still could be other things. a whale or another vessel. so we're going to cover this and follow it. if something materializes, we'll dive in. but we don't want to lead people

on and make them think that every tiny little -- >> you mean if it's news -- >> if it's news, we'll cover it. and we won't lead people on when it's not news. >> that'll keep some people busy. from the papers -- i know. you keep saying breaking news and then it's not breaking news. aye heard breaking news alerts 20 times in two days. you're insulting your audience. exactly. the only way i insult my audience is -- >> by just being you. >> out of "the washington post," president obama and first lady obama will visit ft. hood. a senior adviser says the obamas will send their thoughts an prayers to everybody on base. the last time they visited ft. hood was in 2009 following the shooting that left 13 people there dead. >> a source told the "chicago sun times" jesse jackson jr. has been transferred to a new prison

in alabama after clashing with prison officials. he was removed after advising fellow inmates of their rights. he was also reportedly placed in solitary confinement for five days. jackson is serving a two and a half year sentence. >> and from "the atlanta journal constitution." we feel bad for this archbishop. he's got to sell his $2.2 million mansion. >> stop it. >> archbishop wilton gregory came under fire after local catholics spoke in outrage of his lavish home. gregory decided it would be best to sell -- >> is this the pope? the trickle down effect? >> that it's a bad sign for some of these archbishops. that have -- live in these lavish homes and are spending the parishioners' money. it's a bad sign when your boss

lives the way he does. >> he's not the only one. over in new jersey, a bishop with a huge estate adding on to it. you have the pope preaching the gospel of the church tending to the poor, those less fortunate. >> not a great idea. this next story, mike, you obviously -- >> oh, yeah. >> i mean, this also relates to you because little known fact, you were actually the agent that discovered mickey rooney back in early 1920s. the los angeles times reporting that actor mickey rooney died sunday in california. he started on stage as a toddler. that's when mike first met him. his career continued for another 90 years. >> miguel almaguer has more on his career. >> reporter: a veteran of more than 300 films, he loved to act and loved the limelight. >> you never get tired of

hearing applause. >> reporter: for rooney the accolades can came early. bone joseph ewell jr., he began acting at seven months. standing just 5'3," rooney said he felt like a man 6'6." >> excuse me for running away, betsy. >> reporter: his popular andy hardy series ran for almost 20 years. >> get off as fast as you can and jump sure and clean. >> reporter: in "national velvet" he starred with elizabeth taylor. in "the black stallion" rooney shined. but he also had his critics. some called this portrayal of an asian-american racist. >> once again i must protest. >> reporter: through it all, rooney won golden globes, emmys, and later in life an honorary academy award. >> he was what they used to call in show business a triple threat. he was sing, he could dance, he could act and he could do them all equally well.

>> reporter: rooney's life wasn't picture perfect. he made and lost millions. >> my name is mickey rooney. >> reporter: he told congress in 2011 he was a victim of elder abuse. >> i've been abused. financially, medically. my wife and i have a hundred for food at our house. >> reporter: but the showman will always be remembered for his long body of work. a legacy that lives on today. >> all right. that was nbc's miguel almaguer. incredible life. rooney was at home with his family when he passed away. he was 93 years old. >> all right, willie. time for politico. >> the editor in chief for politico is john harris. good morning. >> good morning. >> so president obama has a busy week talking about equal pay in the workplace. a couple of executive orders coming up. one in particular you're focusing on. what's he going to announce this

week? >> lilly ledbetter. going to look at the question transparency. of course you want to know what other people are getting paid to make sure you're getting paid enough. the other is going to impose new rules on federal contractors in which they have to report to the federal government on race and sex. it's a big issue for the president because he feels he's got a big political advantage on this question of equal pay for equal work. he's really going to push it hard. >> it's a political advantage, but it's something he's been focused on early on. when he signed lily ledbetter. >> on the politics of this, let me say what's interesting is if you look at the polling, this is not just popular with women. it's also popular with men. everybody wants their spouse to get a fair deal. everybody wants their daughter to get a fair deal.

and republicans -- the white house feels republicans don't really have a alternative position and really on the defensive on this. a lot where republicans are on the offense. when the white house has got them on he run on this, they're going to be hitting it hard. we're going to hear a lot about it from other democrats right up through the midterms. >> all right. thank you very much. so this weekend i'm at ho home -- >> of course. >> and willie can tell you what i do at home. i'm online. >> i don't think i want to know. >> but i'm sitting there and i'm tweeting about willie and i, what we're going to do. and the twitter explodes. >> really? >> yes. apparently you're at this huge event in manhattan and you're taking off your makeup. >> well, they all do it. >> nobody does that. everybody was like why is she taking off her makeup?

>> because we were doing a women's conference. >> look at this. what are you doing there? >> well, we were talking about how makeup is like this sort of -- it's powerful but we become addicted to it. and so i took it all off on stage. >> wow. okay. >> and it was fun. >> chances are good with all the women there, you were the only one who did that. >> yes. i think they thought i was a little weird. but that's okay. we had a good time. we also talked with rashida jones about women and over-sexualization in the media and miley cyrus and where that plays in terms of who women are. >> is rashida jones for or against it? >> shooens against it. she thinks there's nothing wrong with sexuality, but that shouldn't be all girls are about. take a look. >> you can't really invest in your looks as your only thing, because it's a depreciating asset. and i think this is true --

>> trust me. >> -- about feeling like an object. it's like putting money into a stock that is going down. >> oh, my god. >> i'm just saying. put your money, put your effort -- invest in your brain, invest in your talents. those things can appreciate. and they get better as you get older. and that's what i want to say. >> you guys would not believe me without makeup. >> maybe we should have come out here without makeup, all of us. it might have been fun? >> should i take my makeup off? >> take it off. >> i'll take my makeup off. >> i think i only have seven wipes here. is that enough? >> don't show the after. coming up, not the finest nor the bravest moment for new york city. we'll show you why the protecters of america's largest city were duking it out on the ice during a charity event. "morning joe" is next. mine was earned in korea in 1953.

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♪ welcome back to "morning joe." time for some sports. we'll start out with a little baseball. our guy richard haass. derek jeter the farewell tour didn't take long before hitting

another milestone. yesterday passing paul on the career hit list. sole possession now of eighth place. 3,320 hits. jeter said, quote, i have a lot of respect for paul maliter and his career. as for the yankees they went to defeat. they're playing a little better now. to basketball. the exciting finish to what's been an unpredictable tournament. seven seed uconn will take on the eighth seeding kentucky wildcats from the midwest. they top off at 9:10 eastern time. >> that's unhealthy for us. >> you're going to watch it. >> i wonder what percentage of the brackets had these two teams in the finals. >> huh? >> a seven and an eight? no. huh-uh. the two teams have combined -- the two schools to win 16 of the last 18 ncaa tournaments despite

a on the women's side the finals also set. the uconn huskies there too. look at this matchup. incredible. two undefeated teams. uconn and notre dame finishing the season without a loss. notre dame at 37-0. uconn 39-0. this is the game everybody wanted and were hoping for. it gets to matter. >> what about geno? >> i love him. i've known film her a long time. i covered the huskies as a reporter in connecticut. he put women's basketball on the map. >> that guy is unbelievable. >> he is. good coach. >> great guy. >> incredible run. that game is tomorrow night at 8:30. should be an incredible matchup. >> catholic college bragging rights. >> that's right. >> i tell you, willie it's great when you see new york's finest get together. there was a big charity event yesterday. >> the bravest and the finest. >> the bravest and the finest. you know what? for this one day, we talked about it, for these two hours -- >> to come together.

>> they come together and nothing else really matters and it helps us forget all the hurt in the world. >> it really does. >> yeah. it was a wonderful charity event. the two departments, fdny, nypd getting together for a charity hockey game out on along island. wait a minute. what's going on there? >> what are they doing? >> what are they doing? >> this is an annual charity event. >> fire department and the police department getting together. and there was a bench-clearing brawl between the bravest and the finest. fans at the event posted videos on twitter immediately. >> you don't need to call a cop. >> that's true. >> the ref looks like he's man handling these guys all right. >> one of the referees was run over. chance from the fdny, apparently chanting pd sucks.

>> nypd won the game 8-5. >> oh, my gosh. >> how about that. >> they still play hockey out there. >> they're moving to brooklyn soon. coming up next, are peace talks in the middle east due for a reality check? we'll be right back with more "morning joe." i got this. [thinking] is it that time? the son picks up the check?

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with wholesome ingredients and irresistible taste, no wonder it's the only one cats ask for by name. a shot of washington this morning. welcome back to "morning joe." there's stories developing in the foreign front. let's start with afghanistan. big news over the weekend under the threat of the taliban, millions of afghans have voted for president. so far it looks like the race is headed to a run-off. according to "the new york times," election officials say some were between 7 and 7.5

million afghans turned up to the polls. that's about 60% of eligible voters. impressive. both of the front runners say they'll sign the skaurt agreement to keep the u.s. troops in the country. karsai has refused to frame the election, if you could. with all these. >> okay. what you have are probably half a dozen or more candidates, two or three principle ones. it will probably be a late runoff may or june. all the candidates have said they will celebrate with the u.s. keep roughly 10,000 or so there. there will continue to be violence given what the taliban is still able to do in afghanistan and given the fact that pakistan continues to provide a sanctuary. >> karsai plays an anti-american card at times. did the candidates run an anti-american election? >> surprisingly, no.

it was almost a good government campaign. the tenor of the campaign was good and they made it clear. they could live with the united states. >> running against america then not a good political move in afghanistan this year. >> well, for the short run, no. >> for the short run. it's telling. >> for the investment we made in afghanistan, this was actually a very good couple of days. >> so john kerry's been coming under withering criticism for the middle east peace talks. he actually, some say he actually forced. now even john kerry himself is saying there may need to be a reality check. this is what kerry had to say when he spoke about it last week. >> this is not an open-ended effort. never has been. and the president said that from the beginning. and i've said that many times. including in the last few days. so it's reality check time. and we intend to evaluate

precisely what the next steps will be. >> so it's reality check time. what does he mean by that? >> it's long since time for a reality check. he's been investing an enormous amount of time. it's not at all clear the situation was right for progress. even if he had been able to make some progress, it's hard to argue now this is the key to the middle east if you look at what's going on in syria, iraq, and egypt. it's not because of the palestinian issue. this takes tremendous time and effort. people were questioning why the u.s. secretary of state was investing so much in this issue. what you really do need is moving away from it he needs to focus on other things. on the situation in asia, on ukraine and russia. it simply isn't worthy of this time. again, the situation is in no way set up for progress no matter how hard john kerry or anything else works at it. >> i'm sorry to interrupt. is it ever right? you can say that at any point in history. it's never the right time. >> look at where you are now. you've got a middle east in

turmoil. you've got a divided palestinian entity between israeli and the west bank. this is not a peace cabinet. look who's in it. you can argue now this is why god created envoys. you said assistant secretaries are trying to ripen the situation. but the secretary of state, one of the most important assets he has is what does he focus on? it's hard to argue this is a principle use or should be a principle use of his time. >> i want to move on to ukraine, if we could. did we have one more question? what? >> i was going to say something. i decided not to say it. about envoys. so, anyway, it's rare i say it, but i don't want to speak ill of the dead. anyway, so, i -- >> stop it. >> i thought it was very interesting, actually -- >> stop it. >> i'm going to have to say it. >> no. you may not. >> i thought it was very interesting that john kerry is getting attacked from conservatives, but quote, senior officials inside the white house. and i thought it was very funny,

mika what barack obama said. well, i'm a senior official in the white house. and john kerry has my support. >> i think john kerry's doing an incredible job. can we move to ukraine? unrest is deepening. especially in ukraine's industrial east. pro-russian demonstrators have reportedly seized government buildings in three cities. protesters clashed with police in riot gear for overtaking the buildings and hoisting the russian flag. ukraine's new government has accused russian president vladimir putin on instigating the unrest. putin has massed hundreds of troops on the border. it also accused yanukovych of conspireing with moscow to make the situation worse. >> this is a far more immediate, far more pressing problems for the secretary of state than dealing with the fractured israeli government. >> absolutely. and it shows you russia doesn't need those troops inside of

ukraine to format this kind of chaos. it puts a priority on the u.s. and the european union getting this money into ukraine to try to make this a functioning place. this is going to be extraordinarily difficult. >> how far ahead of the european union is the united states in this situation? >> in terms of what's going on in ukraine itself, we're not that ahead. where the u.s. is ahead is in a willingness to sanction russia. russia doesn't have to do overt things to have influence on ukraine. this going to play itself out. this is going to be extraordinary messy for some time to come. this could get very ugly. all right. later on "morning joe," are african-americans falling behind as the rest of america recovers from the recession? marc morial will join us. we'll be right back. ♪

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now, you're the one dealing with president putin. how is that? >> working with putin is like being cornered at a party by a guy who just started crossfit. i mean, he's got a great body, but he hasn't broken eye contact

in two minutes and i want another white wine spritzer. >> so he talks a lot? >> i am low on minutes. and germany minutes do not roll over. they stand up and get right back to work. coming up at the top of the hour, jon meacham, eugene robinson, chuck todd. it's going to be a good one. stay with us. ♪ i know a thing about an ira

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♪ you can't touch this. my my my music hits me so hard. makes me say oh my lord. thank you for blessing me. for the mind to eye and two eye i feel good. when you know you're down simmer down home boy. i know of such. this is a beat you can't touch this. >> oh, my god. i love it. i could watch that. welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnacle and richard haass are still with us as well as jeremy peters in washington. also joining us from washington, associate editor of "the washington post" and analyst eugene robinson and nbc news chief white house correspondent and political director and host of "the daily rundown," chuck

todd. and in nashville -- >> there's more? >> there's more. and it's so hot. pulitzer prize winning story winner jon meacham. >> and if you watch, we'll get you a complete set. jon, you this weekend, i understand you participated in the great tribute to 41. and a letter was revealed about the dating life. >> i want to know about this. >> of george h.w. bush. >> it was a big historical moment, joe. i think richard was there after he did the slides with the rapping. you should have seen them dancing. >> now, that is hot. okay. >> you haven't lived until you see bill webster try to sing "friends in low places." >> so we want to keep you focused. >> what did we miss, joe? >> a 20-second summary of george h.w. bush, the letter he wrote

to you talking about what he. >> reporter: dating. >> about his dating life. >> i asked him about four years ago. i said can you tell me anything about women before mrs. bush? and it was not a question that was warmly received. but then about a week later, he wrote me probably a 1200-word essay on naming about five girls from greenwich and maine who have been -- have attracted his attention. and there was a certain theme to what had drawn his attention as a young man. >> right, right, right. what was that? >> can you mention that on tv? >> probably not, but he did say -- his kicker was reading over this, it may seem as though i was obsessed with certain physical attributes, but what with 12-year-old boy was not? guilty am i. >> he liked long, slender arms. >> exactly. >> is that's what i'm guessing.

welcome back to "morning joe," mika. >> wow. >> so we've been talking about jeb bush a bit. >> oh, we have. you want to transition from his obsession with -- >> i think i like 41. i don't know what he's obsessed with, but i like him. >> breasts. former governor jeb bush has decided he will decide if he wants to run for president by the end of this year. the florida republican laid out a vision for what his party's nominee should look like rejecting the mud slinging of past primaries. he also waded into the issue of immigration. keenly aware of the political potholes that comes with it. >> i'm going to say this and it will be on tape and so be it. the way i look at this is someone who comes to our country because they couldn't come legally, they come to our country because their families, you know, a dad who loved their children was worried that their children didn't have food on the table.

and, you know, they wanted to make sure their family was intact. and they crossed the border because they had no other means to work to be able to provide for their family. yes, they broke the law, but it's not a felony. it's a -- it's an act of love. it's an act of commitment to your family. i honestly think that that is a different kind of crime that should be -- there should be a price paid, but it shouldn't be -- it shouldn't rile people up that people are actually coming to this country to provide for their families. >> chuck todd, as those words are coming out of jeb bush's mouth, i guarantee you there are voters whose eyes are welling up saying this is a new republican party and republicans have a chance to actually elect a pash not conservative. unfortunately, they're mainly liberals in manhattan and washington, d.c. now, i just -- it's funny you listen to these things. i'm sure there were a lot of people moved by it. i understand what he is saying,

but as i said last hour, as a republican primary voter, it just -- i understand a father's love for their child, but as i said, it's about fairness. a father in america whose daughter is in pakistan and wants her here, loves his daughter every bit as much as somebody that gets here illegally by crossing the border. if that's any gut reaction, chances are that's the gut reaction of republican primary voters who don't hate, but they look at it as an issue of fairness. >> i almost fought governor bush was going to break out into song there. but in many cases -- >> exactly. that's my second thought. my first thought was about fairness. but that was my second. >> of course it was. but i mean that's the whole part of les mis. it was a quest of trying to help your family. and i do believe that the is always been -- that is the

evangelical message on immigration. that's the evangelical pro-message. which this is about keeping families intact. this is about if you look at immigration in that come passionate light, i think for a conservative audience, if you're governor bush, that's the best shot you have of selling immigration, trying to neutralize it a little bit as a political hot potato. but, we saw what happened in '07. we saw what happened, what mitt romney did to rick perry. it is -- of all the primary issues of the various things that can trip up a republican running for president, i think we've learned over the last two cycles that immigration is about as deadly of an issue as you can touch. it's close to being a third rail issue in republican primary politics. i hear you, joe. >> certainly is. >> you start going through the

places they would go and even perhaps in these primaries even in border states. >> we'll see. eugene robinson, mark halperin points out this morning that george w. bush said he wasn't going to balance the budget on the backs of the poor and he lived to tell about it and got elected twice. i don't know the parallels between george w. bush and jeb this year when a lot of conservatives consider 43 to be somebody that actually did great damage to the conservative cause. >> yeah. george w. bush is not exactly on the conservative pantheon right now, joe. as you know. i think there's something useful here, though, that jeb bush could be doing for the republican party. if not for his own presidential chances. i think, you know, i'm trying to imagine how this plays in iowa, for example, among iowan republican caucus goers. it does not play well.

they're not going to like this at all. if he continues talking like this, maybe he creates some space for others. maybe he creates some space for, say, marco rubio's position which until now looked like the far left of the republican party on immigration and it was amnesty and it was horrible and he had ruined his whole political future. and now, you know, he looks much more conservative than jeb bush. he didn't go all the way to act of love. so maybe jeb bush creates more space within the party to talk about this issue. that's something the republican party needs. it really needs to have -- there needs to be more air in there. it can't just be self-deportation. >> jon meacham, about a year and a half ago after mitt romney lost the presidential election, republicans said to themselves, well, we got hammered among latinos and women. that's why we don't have a republican president. we need to look inside ourselves and evaluate what went wrong. isn't what jeb bush is saying right now -- not that he doesn't

believe it and believed it for a long time -- but isn't what he's saying now a product of that and he has in the back of his mind that he runs for president to put a feeler out to say i'm different than what you've seen in the past. there is some compassion in my view. isn't that what he's doing for here? >> i think he's asking for breathing space, exactly. in the same conversation he said this has to be about winning, not making points. it's an argument joe's made for a long time. i do think he's trying to set up that this is not going -- he's not going to be a litmus test conservative. his father wasn't a litmus test conservative, interestingly. if you want to look at this in sort of 30-year cycles. you know, you've got in 1990 when george h.w. bush in domestic policy broke the no-new-taxes pledge which was fiscally responsible, it created an enormous amount of the conservative energy that is still playing itself out. and so whether a bush 25 years

later can -- 30 years later almost, can succeed in a climate that where there's always been this conservative reaction against what his father did is going to be an interesting question. >> jeremy peters, jeb bush obviously playing a pretty successful home game over the weekend, but in the united states senate there's at least a couple of united states senators. one in particular who is way out in front in terms of running for president. he's doing pretty well in several states, rand paul. match up their positions on what jeb bush said about immigration and where senator paul is on immigration. >> senator paul did not support the comprehensive immigration plan that passed last year. sop that is a key distinction. where they are very similar, however, is the way they talk about the current state of the republican party. they both say they think it's broken. they say they think republicans talk too much to themselves and not to a broader audience and

they're not doing enough to reach out to younger voters and others who felt alienated over the years. so that's pretty striking to me that now you have two candidates -- potential candidates for the presidency on the republican side who are saying we can't go on existing as we are today. >> hey, chuck, richard haass off camera said something fascinating about jeb bush talking about this early. getting it out there early. and just getting a read. sort of setting up a trial balloon a year out. do you think that's happening? >> i do think he's -- look. he's not been afraid of two issues that could on paper consultant would say to governor bush oh, man, watch out. immigration, common core. these are two issues, common core being the education push that governor bush is very aggressively behind getting a lot of states to sign up for this on education standards.

and it's become a hot potato among mostly on the right. actually a little bit on the left too. but it does feel as if he's saying, all right. i'm going to take these head on this year. see what happens. let's see. do i blow myself up, right? or does this become where i'm totally unelectable or can i put it to a point where all of a sudden by the end of this year and the start of next year when the presidential campaign has to take on, it feels like old news. that it's a little bit like people that attack him on those two issues, it's not new. we'll see. again, common core and immigration have this cultural -- it's interesting. i think with the republican base, these issues, you're not going to win a rational political argument on this. it's not a policy argument. it is sort of a cultural argument of the heart. a little bit of the past that's in there. and you throw them all together. i think that's going to make this more difficult for governor bush.

but i agree with what i guess the premise of richard is saying. which is deal with it now. let's see what happens. let's see how radioactive they are. all right. let's move on to other news while we can. a dispute under interrogation tactics used by the cia is spilling into the political arena again. a report by the senate intelligence committee alleges the clandestine agency concealed details about how severe its methods really were. it also suggests the quality of the intelligence gained from detainees was not as important as suggested. although the report isn't even out yet, the backlash and already begun. >> they have made assumptions and leapt to conclusions that cannot be substantiated. why now into an election year would you bring this up? >> read an article by david ignatius this week. he said feinstein wanted a report so scathing that it would

ensure that an un-american brutal program of detainee interrogation would never been considered or permitted. that sense, that motivation for the report, chris, may show deep emotional feeling on the part of the senator. but i don't think it leads you to an objective report. >> senator feinstein replied saying in part the report objective based on fact thoroughly footnoted an i'm certain it will stand on its own merits. gene, obviously there's a bit of a cringe factor, i guess, because of the word emotional. >> uh-huh. >> for me even my point of view on this, which i've been transparent about is what is morally right. what is the human reaction to what it is that's in the report. i'm not sure why that's not okay. >> well, exactly. i mean, first of all, mika, i think there's a big cringe factor in the use of the word "emotional." that's just such a loaded word to use about --

>> for californians you mean? >> no, that's not it. >> don't ever say that to a californian. >> don't do it. >> he's joking. >> joe, you're being very emotional about this. >> let me keep it together. >> also, i've written a lot about this issue, and it is, i think, the little drams we're getting out of this senate cia report seem to be really quite devastating. and just had a question for richard haass. what -- you know, what have we learned so far? i mean, is the -- what's the scope of this harsh interrogation program greater than we have known so far and did it produceless actionable intelligence than we've been led to believe by the cia? that seems to be what it's saying. >> i think the last point is in terms of the big lesson to

derive from this, gene. which is do these tack necks work. put aside the question of morality. does it make the united states safer? i think that's a legitimate argument for professionals to have. what i think is less, if you will, less comfortable about the report is just here it is. it's more than a decade later looking at this in isolation. and it seems to be questioning the whole motives for the program. and i think that's unfair for two reasons. one after 9/11, obviously was a very different environment. we were obviously under considerable threat. we didn't know the full extent of it. and before you use these techniques, it was impossible to know in advance what would work or wouldn't. on monday morning quarterbacking judgments about this seem to me a little bit unfair. >> you know, the other thing that's involved in this whole back and forth, though, is the firm belief among fbi interrogators who were involved

in, obviously in post-9/11 and trying to run al qaeda to the ground. the fbi investigators firmly believed that this -- that harsh interrogation did not work. in fact, it was counterproductive. and it led to bad information. and, you know, the cia interrogators wanted to continue doing it. is this a bureaucratic struggle or deeper than that? >> there's always been a cultural split between the fbi and cia. this is one small part of it between law enforcement which is a different set of concerns than intelligence gathering. it's also quite possible it's not all or nothing. why would one think that it always worked or never worked. my hunch is when you look at the data, it worked in some circumstances and other circumstances it works less well or not at all or has given you bum information. these things are so rarely all or nothing and black and white. >> same thing with the bureaucratic struggles. by the way, i personally think

from everything i've heard it was a real bureaucratic struggle. but also the fbi does approach it like you say differently than the cia. jeremy peters, talk about the split as this senate report comes out we've been hearing about it for a year about republicans walking away from the process because they thought the democrats were cherry picking. saxby chambliss who he and diane feinstein have gotten along in the past, saxby even walked away from the process. can you tell me about the committee, the one that usually stands shoulder to shoulder. >> that's absolutely right. intel is one issue that's always scrambled the typical partisan e litists here. you have those two who are usually on the same pages. but it's just not something -- this is not an issue that's very predictable. when you have ron white and rand paul on the same page, that sort

of gives you an indication of how unpredictable this all is. >> jon meacham, any final thoughts? any exerts from any other letters? >> form fitting rubber bathing suits from the 1930s. no. >> no, no. >> wow. >> he went there. >> try the '70s. >> i'm just quoting. >> flappers. is that what it was? >> i think so. chuck, what are you doing on "the daily rundown"? >> big celebration of your birthday, i think. that's what we're going to do. >> not yet. >> we have an hour-long celebration. isn't it today? am i right? >> no. that's my brother today. >> couple days. >> couple days. >> wednesday. >> it's a big week. we've got to prepare the week. do we get the monday or friday off to celebrate? >> i think we'that's in banglad. are the chiropractodemocrat biggest threat going into the

debate? senator chuck schumer is here. i want to ask him about the koch brothers. >> i'd love to hear what he says about immigration. >> i'd love to hear if there's any liberal who has spent as much to influence the game. and then we take a look at america's other special relationship. how european austerity impacts the u.s. and scotland. the first minister of scotland joins us on set. you're watching "morning joe."

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♪ all right. joining us now, the senior u.s. senator from new york. democrat chuck schumer. >> good morning. >> how are you? >> i'm good this morning. >> yankees are starting out okay. >> 3-3. not too bad. >> derek jeter big day yesterday. >> they're getting better.

>> even better than that, the president's moving on equal pay once again. >> he is. and that's going to be a very important issue for us. >> i know. >> we have a whole agenda now called the fair shot agenda aimed at average middle class people paying for college, minimum wage, keeping jobs in america. it's going to -- i think, you know, this past two, three weeks has been a turning point. >> what way is that? >> the the 2014 elections for us. first i think the issue of obamacare, it's still going to be used against us. the 7 million sort of undoes the mistakes of the initial rollout. people are learning it's a good thing. and you can see in the poll numbers it's better. but second we have the contrast of our fair shot agenda, equal pay for women, equal work, minimum wage, helping pay for college, bringing jobs back here, child care. things aimed at middle class people. and the ryan budget where he

slashes things like college loans to students. they got to pay the interest while they're still going there. all to lower the top tax rate to 25%. we welcome that contrast. and i think you're going to find the last few weeks are kind of a turning point, a bit of a game changer and things are going to start looking better for us. >> we shall see. jeb bush talked about immigration yesterday. >> he can. >> how's immigration going? >> good. mika wants to stay on this subject. >> i'll be back at it. >> you're going to be at the white house tomorrow for equal payday. >> uh-huh. is that okay? >> yeah, it's fantastic. >> do you guys get paid the same? >> we do for the services we provide, yes. >> we didn't, but we fixed it. it was quite public. >> right at you, girl. >> there you go. so let's talk really quickly who was your biggest champion? >> you. >> this guy. are you for equal pay? >> of course i am.

>> wait a minute, now. >> join the democrats. >> hang back there, boy. all right. little too far. >> immigration reform is going to pass, obviously that's not happened. talk about the jeb bush remarks, marco rubio. what do you see happening? do you think it's good for the republican party what jeb bush is saying? >> he's showing what most people are at. most republicans, you know, they're in the vote no, pray yes caucus. they'd like it to pass as long as they don't have to vote for it. i still think we have a good chance of passing it this year. speaker boehner wants to do it, ryan who i like very much even though i don't like his budget. he wants to do it. and you have, of course, the tea party and hard right saying you can't do it, can't do it. but the leadership of the party realizes one thing, they don't do it this year, they won't do it in 2015 because you have the republican primaries pulling to the right. and it will almost certainly

mean they're going to lose the 2016 election. so leaders like boehner and ryan which still want to try to figure out a way to do it, if you wait until june or july when most of the tea party primaries are over, we still have a shot. if not, they're going to have big trouble and jeb bush knows tha that. jeb bush represents that wing of the party. >> at least for the republican primary. let's go to jeremy peters. >> be a lot better than some of them. >> there you go. >> wow. >> maybe jeb can put that in his package. >> that will help him a lot. >> way to go. you are a bush democrat. so let's talk to jeremy peters about your article this weekend talking about the koch brothers and the democratic strategy. there was a long article about that this weekend. you have a question for chuck schumer? >> i do. senator, good morning. >> hi, jeremy. >> you guys have been hitting on

this very hard, on the senate floor, in ads in key states that could determine who controls the senate next year. but i wonder what specific evidence you're seeing that average voters hear the words koch brothers and recoil? because if you talk to m republicans, they say we did this with george. it's hard to turn these guys into polarizing political figures in a way that clicks with swing voters. so tell us how you're seeing that specifically on the ground in these states. >> first of all, the fact that 48% of americans know who the koch brothers are in may or in april -- it's april. feels like may. that'll mean about 90% of them will know it in october. and that's going to be something. second, what we're doing is we're showing that these ads that the koch brothers are largely responsible for, we're showing who's behind them. people who are closing, cutting jobs in alaska, north carolina. people who put this giant pete

thing. i forgot what it's called in the river that polluted a lot of the area. and so it's different than george soros. and they're real issues, just not ideological issues but specific issues in the state about them. and i think it's going to make a difference. it's going to undo the sting of a lot of these ads. we're already finding that in the polling in a few of the states. >> you look at the poll numbers, 52% have never heard of the guys. >> wait until -- i think the fact that 48% or 40% have heard of them already -- >> shouldn't you be focusing more on your positive program than trying to vilify the koch brothers like you guys tried to vilify mitt romney and said he's responsible for a guy's wife dying? come on. >> let me just say this. the koch brothers aren't just sitting there innocently on the side.

they're spending $40 million, $50 million in ads that are not focused on their real agenda which is just eliminating all regulation on corporations, cutting taxes to virtually nothing. and so that demands a response. so i don't feel sorry for them. i don't feel their first amendment rights are being hurt or anything like that. they're the ones running these ads almost single handedly. they've done a lot of bad things in this state. if it's our only strategy, we'll lose. we must have a positive agenda. that's what our fair shot agenda is. but we also have to have a shield that protects us from these ads. and i think the koch brother thing will work. >> jeremy, does it, though, in your reporting do you find out a lot of times democrats stumble over themselves when they -- you know, they've got a guy out in san francisco who has a brother, together they want to spend $100 million to shape the election this time. you have the senator from alaska talking about the koch brothers using actors in their ads.

and it ends up attacking the koch brothers used actors. it ended up they were actors. >> i don't think they were actors. i think they were regular people who didn't work at the plant. that's the koch brothers' point maybe there's disengenuineness with these adds. what i would ask senator schumer is these midterm elections are all about voter intensity. right now the intensity is with republicans. so it really viable to use the koch brothers to drum up intensity on the left? >> let me tell you. the left and all of america feel people don't get a fair shot. they feel the system is rigged against them. t i think it is not the only strategy. it shouldn't be the number one strategy, but it's an arrow in the quiver. the main strategy we have to have is who's going to help the

middle class get out of this? i compare origin to our fair shot agenda to the ryan budget every day of the week. he gave us a gift, paul ryan did. that budget is so out of touch with what middle class people want, you'll see the difference. that's what tuesday is about. that's the opening day when we talk about pay equity which is one of our eight ways to help middle class people advance. and unrig the system. the koch brothers with their ads, no different than the ads on the left are rigging the system. >> what do you say when you go to a town hall meeting in syracuse, someone says senator schumer i don't know who the koch brothers are. i don't care who they are. but you've been talking about this since january 1st or whenever and i've been unemployed for five months and you can't pass extension of our unemployment benefits. >> we're going to pass it in the senate today after trying three times. and i think that's going to happen on a few of these other issues. i'm not so sure the republicans want to go against pay equity or

minimum wage or give tax breaks for jobs that go overseas or helping kids get to college. i think we have to be positive about what we want team to do. in syracuse they're going to care about s.c. losing in the second round. but in alaska, in north carolina where they've seen all these ads, it has far more effect. it will have an effect. because people do -- they understand politics and all these adds as and all that. but when they hear people saying all the bad things about people they like is shutting down jobs in their state and this is their way of allowing them to do it more and more without any help from middle class people, from the government, it'll matter. >> all right. senator chuck schumer, thank you. and thank you for your support on equal pay. and the minimum wage. >> you know it's all about fund raising. >> it isn't. no, no. it is not. we're doing well fund raising before the koch brothers.

>> okay. you're doing really well now, aren't you? there's going to be a koch brothers wing to the dnc after this midterm election. >> no comment. >> maybe they can make a little art center. all right. coming up, the complex relationship president obama has with his -- and i was actually at the koch theater this weekend, the david koch theater talking about -- at lincoln center. uh-huh. talking about women's rights. it was quite an oxy moron. we'll break down the numbers behind obamacare next. at your ford dealer think? they think about tires. and what they've been through lately. polar vortexes, road construction,

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♪ president obama is finally getting growing support for his signature affordable care act, or is he? that's the question many are asking. and here's more on why it is complicated. >> reporter: as the obama administration popped champagne corks last week celebrating the 7 million enrollment milestone for obamacare, the big question became whether the signature piece of legislation for the president was suddenly no longer

an albatross around the necks of democrats heading into the elections. the latest polling the answer is yes and no. much was made of "the washington pos post"/abc poll showing 49% supporting the health care law. but this was the result of democrats finally coming home in support of the controversial legislation. meanwhile, republican support is still at a meager 20%. with strong opponents outnumbering strong supporters by a margin of 36 to 25. a new bipartisan npr poll paints a similarly conflicted picture. 47% favor obamacare with democrat pollster stan greenberg even more bullish about the numbers. >> unpopular program hangs around the necks of democrats. it is absolutely a misreading of the poll data. >> reporter: 7% of likely voters

feel the law doesn't go far enough. but the republican half of the npr polling team points out the number of people who intensity oppose the program is higher than those who support it. overall support of the law is on the up tick, but lack of independent support by november's midterm elections may prove too heavy to pull off. >> we will see. derek, thank you. not sure i completely agree. >> split down the middle though. if you're a democrat, you got to love three or four months ago they're in the low 30s. obamacare was sitting at 34%, the nbc poll. the fact that you're now in the mid to high 40s in most of these polls, certainly got to make landrieu, hagen, a lot of other democrats in red states feel a little better, right? >> just a tad bit. we'll see what happens. up next, we'll look at how

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♪ welcome back to "morning joe." the president of the national urban league, marc morial, is here with the urban league's report on the state of black america. this is always such an important report. >> thank you. >> let's start with with where we stand on jobs in the country. there's always a disparity between the unemployment rate when we break it down by race. >> there's still a wide gap. it's a 2-1 gap with african-americans. and against latinos because we look at that too. that is a bigger question. as the job creation returns, as people go back to work,

african-amicans are really being left behind. that unemployment rate hadn't come down. and it's also part of the larger narrative of a lot of people out of work for a long time. >> mr. mayor, we're going to gene robbinson in washington. gene? >> as you look at this report, did you see a black/black gap as well? did you see some african-americans doing better than others? did you see any sort of indicators? or did you see african-americans more or less moving together as a block? >> gene, you know, because i think you've written on this there is a disparity within the african-american community when it comes to income. no doubt with 10 to 15, maybe 20% doing much, much better. but the truth of the matter is the joblessness rate for blacks with a college degree is higher than it is for the mainstream. so this dispearty kind of is part of all of the nation right now. >> mike? >> you mentioned college degree.

let's talk about before you get the college degree. one of the elements in this report looking at it now is the horrendously high dropout rate among the african-american students in high school and the inability of african-american students to graduate with their class in high school. and thus obviously going to college. what can you do to increase the focus, the national attention on that specific problem? >> and that's a very big problem. and it requires a whole lot of work. i like the focus on early childhood education, because i think we see kids falling behind in fourth, fifth, and sixth grade. if we get them started in school earlier. and we've got to confront the fact that for many of these high schools in urban america, we need a combination of innovation, investment, longer school days, more attention paid to the additional supports that these kids need to make it. >> and parental involvement. >> there's no question you need more parental, family, community.

let's not have i think the false debate whether it's parents versus the institution of the school. i think it's all together. >> it's everything. does the national urban league have position on charter schools? u more important to look at when those schools work whether they're charters or not charters. what are they doing that works. >> so it's a pragmatic approach. >> very pragmatic approach. >> jon meacham. >> dr. king used to say we're a ten-day nation. we can focus on one issue for ten days. that seems like a long time now. how do you keep focus on the issues you find in the report every year. >> there may be three yards and a cloud of dust, but we've got to continue to focus by saying to people here are the facts. unvarnished, unspun in terms of the conditions that we face as a

country, but we've got to look at solutions. so this report this year for the first time looks at local conditions in 80 communities. but it also features four american mayors. and it focuses on those mayors because we wanted to look at what's being done outside of the beltway. what kind of innovation, what kind of initiatives. what kind of efforts are taking place at the local level. so in memphis we do that, in jacksonville we do it, in baltimore, and in denver. and so those are four examples in the state of black america where mayors have taken the initiative around job creation, around poverty reduction, using the tools that they have. >> you also were talking about the metro areas with the lowest black and white unemployment rates. they are oklahoma city, washington, d.c., and harris burg, pennsylvania. and then the metro areas with the highest median incomes. washington, d.c., new york, and baltimore. baltimore? there you go. >> so bottom line in this report, because it seems to me

it's an important report every year. but it seems to me that we still have such a significant divide not only among class, but especially among race. and what's the one thing because you're going to come back in 2015, you'll have this report between now and then. what is the one thing that needs to be done to lessen that great divide? >> i think we've got to take steps now whether it's increasing the minimum wage, transportation infrastructure, focusing on continuing to invest in workforce and education. what we hope we can say a year from now is that steps have been taken and we're not a nation sitting on our hands. >> right. okay. mr. mayor, great to have you. a pleasure. and thank you for bringing this report to us. >> thank you. >> marc morial, thank you so much. gene robinson, greatly appreciate you being here as well. >> good to be here. still ahead later, this year's scotland going to vote to end its 300-year union with england and wales. we'll find out why they want to break away from great britain

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see that, liverpool? >> there you go. here with us now, the first minister of scotland, alex sammond, very good to have you here. you have gifts. i didn't get mine yet. >> this is a special new tart for the ryder cup. fresh off the loom for you.

>> fresh off the loom. >> we all have got these. i'll tell you what, i will not be wearing this -- >> mika did better. >> i did. >> european tie. so i'll wear it before september and after september. >> that's a deal. >> thank you so much. absolutely beautiful. >> so very historic time in scotland. tell us about breaking away from great britain. >> well, we've got the big vote, 18th of september, which is the referendum vote. for independence for scotland. 7%. i was looking at your health care polls. 47%, yes, but it's going up. >> why would someone in scotland vote against independence? >> well, that's interesting. it's pretty classic, applied here, 200-plus years ago. people like to control their own finances, control their own taxes, decide their spending. >> i understand that side of it.

>> people who vote against, i think usually because there is trepidation about -- worry, can a country do it. for those of us who believe in independence, that sounds pretty daft. i mean, scotts invented the modern world, we can run our own country. but confidence is growing. particularly among new generation. >> you have been thinking about a arcane historical reference. >> yeah, awkward. >> mike barnicle, why don't we start with you. >> well, i'm wondering, right now, you're a member of the united kingdom. i mean, european union. what happens to scotland -- are you a member of the european union if you vote to break away from the u.k., or do you have to apply for membership, and how long would that take and what impact would it have on your country? >> well, remember, we've been in the european union for 40 years. >> yeah. >> so all scots are european citizens as well as scottish citizens. obviously, there is a process to be gone through. given all our economic

regulations already aligned with european union, we don't expect that process to take more than 18 months we'll have for negotiations between the date of the referendum and the day of scottish independence in the spring of 2016. >> all right. jon meacham, your turn. >> all right. >> keep it clean. >> yes, sir. why now? what are the forces that have led to this vote at this point, and your confidence about it? >> john, it's a progression of things. back in 1999, scotland had its first parliament for a 300 years. and that parliament has gradually gained more authority, more power. so we have come to the point of a decision as to whether that parliament should be an independent parliament. one of t one of the reasons there is support for independence, people see it running -- things like the health service and education system and international trade negotiations and investment. and therefore, it's not that great step to also say perhaps we should run the economy, run

the european negotiations, control the taxation. probably the biggest change is in taxation. >> you talk about the fact that scotland can be independent, as we talk about what it means to the eu. talk about the u.s., our relationship with scotland as a trade partner, economically, is scotland sound enough to be on its own? >> well, we'll be a friendly country to the united states, regardless of how we vote in september. scotland will always be a friend of the united states of america. scotland tomorrow, we would be the 14th most prosperous country in the organization of rich countries. america would be number four. u.k. is number 18. so the 14th country, most prosperous country in the world can cut as an independent country. if they couldn't, the other 180 would be in severe trouble. >> donald trump, is he behaving? >> right. >> he's behaving like donald

trump. >> is it garish? >> listen -- >> is it beautiful? >> the golf courses -- the golf course is epic. >> epic! well, we'll have to see for ourselves. >> donald has told us it's epic, as well. >> he has. more than epic, that it would blow my mind. >> now you've sourced it. >> i have. >> alex salmond, i love my scarf. >> looks good. >> and the weather just perfect for it. >> and the tie looks pretty good. >> up next, jeb bush won't decide until the end of the year. uh-huh. but he's trying to test something. >> will he be the third bush in the white house? straight ahead on "morning joe." just take a closer look. it works how you want to work. with a fidelity investment professional... or managing your investments on your own.

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good morning. its 8:00 on the east coast. 5:00 a.m. on the west coast, as you take a live look at new york city. back with us on-set, we have mike barnicle, richard haws and washington. jeb bush will decide whether to run for president by the end of the year by celebrating the 25th verse of his father's presidency, laid out a vision for what his party's nominee should look like, rejecting the mud slinging of past primaries. he waded into the issue of immigration, keenly aware of the political hazard that comes with it. >> i'm going to say this and it

will be on tape. and so be it. the way i look at this is, someone who comes to our country because they couldn't come legally, they come to our country because their families -- you know, dad who loved their children was worried that their children didn't have food on the table, and, you know, wanted to make sure their family was intact, and they crossed the border because they had no other means to work to be able to provide for their family, yes, they broke the law, but it's not a felony. it's kind of -- it's a an act of love. it's an act of commitment to your family. i honestly think that is a different kind of crime that should be -- there should be a price paid. but it shouldn't rile people up that people are actually coming to this country to provide for their families. >> i think that makes sense. >> what do you think, mike? >> pretty attractive. >> yeah. >> pretty attractive candidate. >> human, actually. >> i mean, can he withstand the

gauntlet of the primaries, of the republican primaries? that would be my question to him and his candidacy, especially of after he speaks like this. >> he spoke like this on this issue, and also educational reform. what he said is he'll make a decision by the end of the year. in some ways, a market test. we'll see what the reaction is, whether in the republican party of 2014 and 2015, you can speak about these issues, take these positions in this way, and survive or even thrive as a candidate. i thought it was an interesting moment in american politics. >> i thought it was too. my reaction is not going to be popular around here, i'm sure. i mean, i understand what jeb is saying, but it is still a crime, people crossing the border is still a problem. and ronald reagan granted amnesty, and it led to more problems. more people coming across the border. so i mean, he certainly has the right to believe that.

and i think a lot of americans would agree with him. and i certainly understand that, as well. but there are a lot of us who believe that if the first thing you do when you come to america is breaking the law, justifying it because you're doing it out of love, may not be enough. is it the worst thing that happens in america? no. it's not. i'm just -- explaining, i can't speak for the rest of the republican primary voters, but i will tell you, when i hear that, i -- you know, my first feeling is not the same, warm, oozing feeling that i would think most people in manhattan or georgetown would have. i would go, well, i understand, but it is breaking the law. >> the issue now is really -- >> not to be the fly in the soup. >> but -- >> statistically, now, the issue is less and less people coming into the country illegally. because that's not happening. the real issue now is those who are already here. and that's what this really speaks to. it seems to me. it's because people of the demographic changes in mexico,

because of the economic improvement in mexico. people come ago cross the border is no longer the issue. the real issue, what do we do with the 12 or 13 million people already here. >> my point is, mike, just to make sure that my words can't be twisted anymore than they're already going to be twisted, is that it's about fairness at the end of the day. the position that i was in when i was a younger guy, i had people dying to come to america, to get their family members to america, to get their children to america. but they weren't in mexico. they were in pakistan. or they were in, you know, ukraine or they were somewhere else. and they couldn't do it. and, you know, the ins took eight, ten years to get them into the country. my issue has always been an issue of fairness. do i think america is big enough to absorb the immigrants, yes, for 25, 30 years, makes us strong and vibrant and i'm glad people want to come to our country. but there is a fundamental issue of fairness, about the person who has a daughter in pakistan,

who has wanted to get his daughter over to the country for 11 or 12 years, has been jerked around by the federal government, hasn't been able to do it. i just have a problem with somebody walking across the border and politicians in washington saying that somehow the guy's love for his daughter in mexico is more important than the guy's love for his daughter in pakistan, always gets to me. >> a lot of people who live outside the upper west side of manhattan have a similar issue. the larger issue is to deal with this, to come up with a comprehensive program that allows people to say, we have a front page story in the "new york times" about more deportations following minor crimes. immigrants here illegally are being deported back to their country of origin. the problem is that congress has not dealt with this. we are not going to be able to deport everyone here who is here. >> right. >> illegally. and the fear factor. they're here to take your job.

they're not here to take your job. you get to a critical issue, why is it someone who graduates from m.i.t. or stanford, would be working for any number of great companies, you've got to go back. >> we send them home so they can start companies -- >> that can compete with us. >> that compete with us and take american jobs. >> i think he's testing the waters, testing the base, perhaps. but -- >> he looks like -- compared to the rest of the republican field right now -- >> a real candidate. >> like tom hanks in the cast of "game of thrones." >> yeah. and getting to politics, he's doing exactly what he should be do and also bringing a human edge to it, which i think the party could use. and there are, you know -- our country is based on a history of people wanting to be here. because it's a better place to live. and so why would you blame someone for wanting that for their family? i think that's pretty -- because we could debate immigration for the next three hours, and i don't think we want to do that.

in terms of the politics of it, what's he doing? i think it's smart. >> i think it will sound reasonable to a lot of people, but i also think there is no question, if he runs for president, we're going to hear act of love in 30-second ads in primary. remember when rick perry in the debate in 2012 said "you don't have a heart if you don't think of a child of an illegal immigrant should get in-state tuiti tuition?" there is no question this will be an issue for jeb bush. >> speaking of 2016 candidates, the "washington post" is reporting on the lengths the potential presidential candidates are going to to speedum domestic and foreign policy. the article says would-be contenders are meeting with economists, pundits, authors and political advisers. it reads in part, "to get schooled on foreign affairs, new jersey governor, chris christie, has been consulting with former secretaries of state henry kissinger and condoleezza rice, as well as council on foreign

relations president richard haass. wait a second, richard goes to you for advice. >> he does. >> i'm confused. this is a circle of love? >> no, sometimes i give richard really bad advice and he takes it back to the candidates. very subversive, how this is happening. so richard, this is -- i mean, this happens to you every four years. you have, you know, candidates running for president, they come to you. and -- >> and actually, just to be straight about it, i talk to people on both sides, council on foreign relations, we are genuinely nonpartisan, and if any candidate wants to talk about foreign policy, which i hope they do. people like henry kissinger, condi rice, there is a wealth of talent. and i think it's great. we need people running for president prepared on these issues. >> take us inside this. who is the dumbest candidate? because there are a lot of dumb candidates out there. i love these people, though. >> how recently -- >> you don't have to say any

names. there are a lot of dumb guys that think i want to be president of the united states, and they actually -- they have -- they have absolutely no idea. >> we don't have enough time. >> they have no idea. >> how recently have you been working with chris? >> okay, here, hold on a second. of those eight, who is the dumbest one when it it comes to foreign policy that knows less? just rank them one to eight. >> i will say jeremy peters, as we look at the "game of thrones" cast, eight people up there. and marco rubio from what i read in this article and i've been hearing, marco has been working hard, surrounding himself with the right advisers. is taking this pretty seriously. whether it's to be a presidential candidate or actually to be a united states senator that actually knows what he's talking about. it's been -- as far as his prep work, sounds pretty impressive. >> he has. and he's really been beefing up his foreign policy credentials. that's -- no doubt about that.

but what that's about, largely, he needs to put immigration behind him. and, you know, if we look at what jeb bush said, i think joe, i would -- go back to your point about how much trouble that's going to cause jeb in a republican primary. what's interesting about what he said is, he's using conservative language there when he's saying this is an act of love, these people want to keep their families strong and together. you know, that's ultimately a very conservative argument. now, i don't know if that's going to play with republican primary voters. i mean, look what they did to marco rubio, right, when he came out for immigration reform. he suddenly became -- went from golden boy to pariah. now, that said, if jeb can get through a republican primary, i think there are a lot of republicans, from what i'm hearing, who still believe that even with chris christie in the running, if chris christie is a strong candidate, jeb is still the one who has the best shot at

beating hillary and that's what republicans believe. >> okay. well -- >> i think so. >> we shall see. >> a sampling at this table. >> i don't think hillary will be the only one. >> we'll see what happens. i want to move on to dispute over interrogation tactics used by the cia spilling into the political arena. a report by the senate intelligence committee alleges the clandestine agency concealed details about how severe its methods really were. it also suggests the quality of intelligence gained from detainees was not as important as suggested. although the report isn't even out yet, the backlash has already begun. >> they have made assumptions and leapt to conclusions that cannot be substantiated. this is not the holy grail, it doesn't answer all the questions. and, again, why now into an election year would you bring this up? >> i read an article by david ignatius earlier this week. he said that senator feinstein wanted a report so scathing that it would ensure that an unamerican, brutal program of

detention interrogation would never again be considered or permitted. now, that sentence, that motivation for the report, chris, may show deep, emotional feeling on the part of the senator. but i don't think it leads you to an objective report. >> well, the report -- first of all, senator feinstein replied, saying in part that the report is objective based on fact, thoroughly footnoted and i'm certain will stand on its own merits. don't try to tell republicans on the committee that. republicans, this process from everything they heard, was from the beginning, and i've been hearing this for over a year now, is so skewed, and there is such cherry picking in this report that the republicans walked away from it. chambliss walked away from it. if you democrats want to make a political statement instead of telling the truth, great, you guys do it. we're walking away from it. so we'll see what happens. it's -- richard haass, why don't

you say something here. you talk to candidates. >> do you think it was fair to say -- the report was based on emotion? >> that kicked off a firestorm. on the use of the word emotional. but look -- >> people from california are just more emotional. >> we're not going to go there. the -- what i think people have to do on this, is put your heads back to where we were a decade ago. >> right. >> and after 9/11, when there was the fear of future 9/11s, and sure, the united states did things which in retrospect are highly controversial and in some cases you can argue whether they worked or not, whether they were warranted or not. but i think it's hard, 10 or 12 later from an ant septemberic distance to look at these things and say they were in the out wrong. >> dianne feinstein, nancy pelosi, jay rockefeller and a cast of other liberals that were shocked, shocked, shocked that this was going on in 2005 and

2006, when the report started coming out, were fully briefed on it in 2002. dianne feinstein in particular had more information about what was going on, and jay rockefeller, as well, had -- they all -- all the liberals on the intel committee that are acting so shocked a decade later, safely removed from 9/11, were the very ones saying what else can we do in 2002. this is preposterous. this is -- you know, they ask people to go out and try to save americans from the next 9/11. and they get information, and then a decade later, when they're trying to cover their ass, they put out a skewed report like this that is a political statement and a political document. it's outrageous, and it's disgraceful. and the truth will come out what they were saying in 2001 and 2002. the history books will reveal it. they knew everything that was

going on. and to do this even five years later, especially ten years later, is a disgrace to the men and women that put their ass on the line to stop the next 9/11 from happening. and while they were doing it, dianne feinstein, nancy pelosi, were saluting and asking what could be done. and now they're shocked? it's disgraceful. >> to richard's point, an entirely different country we were living in for nearly two years after september 11th. jeremy, i'm wondering, with all of the anecdotal evidence about this report that's been in the papers, what do you hear about the relationship and the flashpoint between senator feinstein and john brennan? >> well, dianne feinstein is still waiting for her apology. she has asked the cia to apologize -- >> for what? >> remember, this blew up a

couple weeks ago when it was revealed that the cia had looked into what senate investigate -- had looked into senate computers to see what senate investigators were examining in cia documents. and so what dianne feinstein -- she has not received that apology. and i think that that incident more than anything else has really changed the tenor of this whole situation. and until they can get past that, and, you know, i don't know if they can right now, it's still a very poisoned relationship. until they get past that, i think this is going to be the norm. >> still ahead on "morning joe," is the key power in the u.s. a secret alliance between the president and wall street's top anchors? author gnomy prince joins us in just a bit to talk about that. and up next -- >> hate each other? >> yeah, no, it's love-hate and deep. first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill. >> we're used to love-hate aren't here, aren't we? good morning, everyone. mississippi overnight, a tornado in alabama. horrible flooding.

had about 8 inches of rain over the weekend. poured last night with thunderstorms and the result in the birmingham area was water rescues by the fire department. the lower level of this apartment complex got flooded out. no one was hurt or injured. but there is a lot of property damage out there, and a lot of places looking for a dry place this day. let me show you the radar from this region. we continue to get soaked. birmingham is dried up, but now towards atlanta, a lot of rain. there are some flash flood warnings west of town. there's going to be significant airport delays here, probably for another couple hours. that will clear out this afternoon. as far as rain goes, 2 inches in atlanta, birmingham about 4 and a quarter. south of there, mobile, less than that. you get the idea. it's very soggy. and this was one of the images i got last night too from bailey collins of the fire department arriving in boats to get the people out of those homes. as far as the tornado threat goes, the watch continues for another hour or two. we haven't had any tornadoes since about mid morning or should say about my mid morning. it was about 4:00 a.m. or so. that was just in the areas of

mississippi. and that tornado did damage a church heavily. it was a big tornado, but thankfully temperature movesly over rural areas. later on this afternoon, still a threat of severe weather, eastern north carolina, eastern south carolina to north florida, all the way through much of the state of georgia. these storms will get a little stronger through the afternoon. as far as the west coast goes, you're beautiful. and get ready for heat. we're going to be in the mid 90s in phoenix. taste of early summer throughout the middle of this week. you're watching "morning joe." soggy atlanta all day long. those little things still get you.

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time now to take a look at the morning papers. the "new york times" official searching for flight 370 say they have their best lead yet as crews are zeroing in on audio signals from deep in the indian ocean. >> significantly, this would be consistent transmissions from both the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder. clearly, this is the most promising lead. and probably in the search so far, it's the -- it's probably the best information that we have had. >> the signals were picked up about 1,000 miles northwest of perth, australia. that's along the flight path. that satellite suggests the plane may have taken after veering far off course one month

ago. the batteries on board are designed to operate for 30 days, still could be a lot of other things. a whale or another vessel. so we're going to cover this and follow it. and if something materializes, we'll dive in. we don't want to lead people on and make them think -- >> you mean if it's news? >> if it's news, we'll cover it. and we won't lead people on when it's not news. >> that will keep some people busy -- >> make them feel they can't trust us. >> i know, because you keep saying breaking news and it's not breaking news, like 8,000 times in two days. >> it's a bad investment in your audience. >> exactly. you're insulting your audience. >> it's called day trading. >> exactly. the only way i insult my audience is -- >> just being you. >> reading news. out "the washington post" first lady michelle obama will attend a memorial service for the victims of last week's shootings. a senior adviser said the obamas will send their thoughts and

prayers to everyone on the base. the last time president obama visited ft. hood was in 2009, following the shooting that left 13 people there dead. a source told requesting "the chicago sun times" jesse jackson jr. has been transferred to a new prison in alabama after clashing with prison officials. jackson was removed from the prison after advising fellow inmates of their rights while incarcerated. he was also reportedly placed in solitary confinement for five days because of his actions. jackson is serving a two-and-a-half year sentence after pleading guilty to ill legally using campaign money. and the arts bishop of atlanta is going to be selling, and we feel really bad for him -- >> why? >> he's got to sell his $2.2 million mansion. >> stop it. >> will ton gregory came under fire after local catholics expressed outrage over his 6,000-plus square foot home. he decided it would be best to sell the property.

>> the trickle down effect? >> it's a pretty bad sign for a lot of these archbishops. this wasn't the only one that live in these lavish homes and spending their parishioners' money. kind of a bad sign when your boss lives the way he does. >> he is not the only one. over in new jersey, right across the river, we had a bishop with a huge palatial estate, adding on to it. and you're right, joe. when you have the pope preaching the gospel of the church, tending to the poor and those less fortunate, it's not a great idea to, you know, have an 80-foot swimming pool, heated pool in the backyard. >> willie, time for politico. >> let's look at the playbook. he had tore in chief is mr. skron harris. good morning. >> good morning, willie. >> so president obama has a busy week talking about equal pay in the workplace. a couple executive orders coming up, one in particular you're focusing on. what's he going to announce this week? >> ledbetter will sign two executive orders, one is going to look at the question of

transparency for federal contractors. in other words, if you're an employee of a federal contract e you can talk about your salary with others, without being punished. which, of course, you want to know what other people are getting paid to make sure you're getting paid enough. the other is going to impose new rules on federal contractors in which they have to report information about their salaries to the federal government on race and sex. it's a big issue for the president, because he feels he's got a big political advantage on this question of equal pay for equal work, and he's really going to push it hard. >> it's a political advantage, but also something he has been focused on early on. and when he signed lilly ledbetter, a priority for his administration since the first term. >> no. question about it. on the politics of this, let me say, what's interesting, if you look at the polling, and this is not just popular with women. it's also popular with men. everybody wants their spouse to get a fair deal. everybody wants their daughter to get a fair deal. and republicans -- the white house feels the republicans don't really have a goodali

alternative position. a lot of issues where republicans are on the offensive. so when the white house has got them on the run, they're really going to be hitting hard. we're going to hear about it, not just from obama but other democrats through the midterm. >> all right. thanks so much. mika, this weekend -- >> they're going to ban selfies at the white house. >> that's good. of so this weekend, i'm at home, of course, and you know, willie could tell you what i do at home. >> what do you do at home? oh, you're online. i don't think i want to know what you do at home. >> well, no, everything goes back to the orphans. but i'm sitting there, and i'm tweeting, what willie and i are doing tonight, and the twitter explodes. >> really? >> yes. apparently you're at this huge event in manhattan, and you're taking off your makeup. >> well, they all do it. >> nobody does that. >> everybody is like why is she taking off her makeup? why would you do that? >> we were doing this women's conference and it was fantastic, women in the world. and we -- we're talking about --

>> what are you doing there? >> well, we were talking about how makeup is like this sort of -- it's powerful, but we become addicted to it. so i took it all off on stage. >> wow. >> and it was fun. and quite -- >> you were the only one who did that. >> yes. i think they thought i was a little weird. but that's okay. >> or crazy. >> we had a good time. we also talked with rashida jones about women and oversexualization in the media, and miley cyrus and where that plays in terms of who women are. >> is rashida for or against oversexualization? >> she considers herself a sexual person, but says that shouldn't be all what girls are about. take a look. >> you can't really invest in your looks as your only thing, because it's a depreciating asset. and i think this is true. >> trust me. >> about feeling like an object. it's like putting money into a stock that is going down. >> oh-oh, my god.

>> i'm just saying. put your money, put your investment, invest in -- >> i love her. >> invest in your talents, and those things can appreciate and they get better as you get older and that's what i want to say. >> so -- you guys would not believe me without makeup. >> maybe we should have come out here without makeup today. >> i can do it. >> we should have done that. >> should i take my makeup off? >> take it off. take it off! >> i'll take my makeup off. >> mika, i only have seven wipes. >> it's never going to happen. >> coming up next, wall street and the white house have always had a unique relationship, we'll call it. but are those ties closer now than ever before? author nomi prins and brian sullivan standing by for us when "morning joe" comes back. weekdays are for rising to the challenge.

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♪ 35 past the hour. journalist and former wall street executive, nomi prins, author of "all the president's bankers: the hidden alliances that drive american power." i love this concept. and all the different jobs that you have held in the industry gives you bar none, the spot in

sort of the universe to write this book. also with us here on-set, cnbc's brian sullivan. what? >> happy monday to you too, mika. >> well, i mean, you know -- >> thank you. >> your spot in the universe, too. >> pluto. >> next to pluto. thomas, how are you? >> i guess i'm pluto. >> no. no, what you are is adorable. i had people over this weekend, and all they were like -- that thomas roberts, i love him, he's so perfect, he's so perfect. >> a little too perfect. >> a little too perfect. >> never. >> okay. i think nomi would agree. >> there is no such thing as too perfect. let's start this there. >> first of all, i just want to go through. i mean this, your resume. former managing director at goldman. former senior managing director at barnes in london, lehman brothers. chase manhattan bank. and the list goes on. what did you learn throughout this, and what drove you to write this book? >> first of all, i started on

wall street when i was 7. >> yeah. exactly. >> you know. >> actually, in utero. >> precisely. i left wall street a number of years ago to write, to be a journalist and to sort of discover the other side of what we were doing in the business. meaning how was it impacting the world. not from reading papers or seeing what was in the world, but actually the power behind it, the politics behind it, how money and politics were always fused. but in the day to day business of wall street, you don't have too to him time to think. you're selling in front of investors, dealing with clients, bosses. you don't have that time. so i took myself out of the industry to really look at it as a whole, bring that perspective. but also study a lot and look at the other side, which is the history and the politics, the presidents and everything else. and that really drove me after years of writing to write this particular book, which i think puts it all together. >> so what's the big takeaway from all of the president's bankers? what are the hidden alliances? >> that from every single president that i cover from

teddy roosevelt through obama, and that's from before the federal reserve was created, after the panic that the big craziness of new york in 1907 when bankers came in to save the day, and align very personally with teddy roosevelt, that through the years, those personal relationships have changed a little bit to more functional ones in terms of millions of lobbyists and lawyers and between the presidents and the bankers. but politics and money are the same thing. wealth and power are what's preserved on both sides. and is there a tremendous sim bow owesis, between the individuals, not just the institutions in washington that drives many decisions, politically, militarily, financially, in america. and therefore, across the world. >> you have to be very interested in how specific our supreme court has been to say that money equals free speech. so what do you think that's going to do to the compass that the country has been on, as you evaluate over the last 100 years, how do you think that's going to influence where we're going? if this is where our origins are

founded? >> well, this is wherer, and that decision has actually reinforced where we have come from, which is that money really does drive political decisions. and presidents need not just the money, but the detation of what that money represents, which has been getting rid of a lot of rules that might impact or might infringe upon the availability of capital to go everywhere and decisions of bankers or decisions of presidents to use that to make decisions. so this particular supreme court decision really reinforces almost the personalization that we had back 80, hundred years ago into to. we have always had the connection, but this makes it more personal than it's been in the recent decades. >> and the need for money in politics has gone up even more. in fact, the campaign finance institute says in today's dollars, constant dollars, the cost to whin a senate seat has gone from 6 to $8.5 million. to win a house seat, 750 to 1.4 million, more than double.

so we're literally able to equate to spend what you have to win. you watch "game of thrones," the most powerful man in the kingdom is not the king. it's the lansteres, the ones that control the gold. what. >> does this say about the average american? >> that we are in this gortex of those decisions made based on that money, based on those relationships. >> don't we have any say? >> it's influence, because of that money. >> brian, do we have any say? does the average american have any say? >> at the ballot box, hopefully. listen, there is no -- gnomy and i were talking in the green room ahead of the interview and she picked a great day. not only "game of thrones" last night but also the imf meetings kick off today in washington, d.c. the imf, world bank, no wonder they are within a mile of the white house. there is money in politics. i think it's -- i look forward to reading, because there is a lot of stuff in here. jekyl island, the creation of

the fed. people talk about why the fed was created. >> what presidency was the worst offender? >> i'm sorry. >> what presidency was the words offender of these alliances driving the agenda? >> i think our more recent ones, between reagan and bush and clinton, the alliances have driven it such that it's negative for the economic stability of america, as opposed to during the imf world bank times, certainly in there and powerful with eisenhower and truman and so forth. but more aligned with general prosperity throughout the country. so really changed recently to be less good for america. >> final point. since we know money is here to stay, corruption might be the only thing that we can control through any type of regulation, although we seem to be systematically chipping away at that. what's your take at how those two correlate modern day, with finance and corruption? >> well, that's a good question. that's where regulations come in. fdr back in the '30s and great depression divided up the banks between speculative and consumer oriented things. but he did it with bankers.

that's one of the things i discovered which is fascinating in this book. the bankers got behind fdr before the legislation was passed. worked as a friend, and as a political ally to fdr. we don't have that today. but if you can dissect the real speculation from the real things that government -- taxpayers are backing, at least it stabilizes the playing field to some extent. it doesn't end corruption. >> sure. >> but it mitigates it. >> my father is in the book. did he do something wrong? >> i'm sure he did. >> oh, good lord. there's a lot. and pat buchanan. >> there are 69 pages of footnotes. >> i'm going right now. >> you know -- >> all right. the book is "all the president's bankers." nomi prins, thank you so much. i'm so glad you wrote it. come back soon. >> thank you. >> stay with us. let's go. of what's going on here? we'll be right back.

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♪ brian sullivan is here. >> i tried. >> we may as well do business before the bell. what's happening on wall street this morning? >> well, we came off a rough day on friday. here's the watch word for this week for the markets. china. china, some people think, could be on the cusp of a real banking crisis. a couple companies defaulted there. chinese banking system is -- we talk about -- you did an excellent interview with nomi. their banking system is so closed, right? there's a lot of people who don't trust the data. the there is some real concern about china right now. it is certainly something to watch. good article in barrons over the weekend. 1.3 million new jobs being created this year. it looks, and i'm going to do this, because you don't want to jinx it. it looks like the job market is

starting to take off just a bit. all be it, some of the jobs temporary in nature, not the full time with benefits that we want to see. but there are some positive signs in the economy. we have to watch china. that's the key. >> i want to talk about zeke emmanuel, which, of course, we'll book him on the show. he made a prediction about health care that is is certainly raising some eyebrows. >> yeah, it is. obviously, the brother of rahm emanuel. a new book coming out. that's why you need to book him. >> okay, we'll book him. >> i have not obviously read the book. what. >> is zeke saying? >> that companies are going to drop all their health care plans by the year 2025. >> what? >> and he obviously is taking some heat from that. but what he is saying is, hold on, i'm not saying that companies are going to ditch it to sort of, you know, screw over the american worker. his whole goal is that the exchanges now that we have through aka will get good enough that we may not need some of the employer-sponsored plans. so he's in that you're the boss blog in the new york times, people raising their ire at

zeke, and he's saying think about why i'm saying it, not take the headline and put on twitter and everybody get upset. >> so most americans prefer to have that as an option, as well. >> if we see the exchanges, quality go up and cost go down, that's what he's arguing. i don't know if you watched "60 minutes" last night. they talked about this rv that goes around in southwestern virginia and delivers health care. god bless the nurses that were doing it. >> that's right. >> but heartbreaking to wachtch. the county they were in, the county my dad's grandma was born on a kitchen table, her dad, '51. you go down to that area of appalachia in southwestern virginia and as one of the doctors described last night, third world that happens to be in the united states. >> do we need health care? >> we need affordable health care or zero. zero cost. >> we'll leave it there. up next, baseball is back, and the defending champs opened their season with an emotional day in boston. our own mike barnicle is there

with the rest of the red sox nation. his recap of fenway's opening day. next on "morning joe." ♪ how can you just stand there?

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red sox nation. welcome back the defending champs this week with a pregame ceremony in boston. guess who was there? of course, barnicle was there. it says here, barnicle was fortunate enough -- excuse me? he owns the place. so, of course, he was at the home of opener. ♪ >> you know, i love christmas, and i love thanksgiving, and i love 4th of july. this is the best day of the year. >> yeah. >> it's the best day of the year. and it has been for my whole life. >> opening day is always special. but in boston, it's even more special, because there's something so central about baseball to life in boston throughout new england. unlike any city that i've been in. >> growing up in the town of groton, it was an excuse to skip school to go to opening day, by which parents always agreed to. >> this is my 42nd opening day.

first one was in 1966. missed a couple here or there. but i'm here like a true fan. >> i sit in the same seats my family sat in for like 100 years. i get shivers every time i think about coming here. >> today is going to probably bring back a number of memories, whether standing out here after game six last year with my family, or whether it's going back to 1987, first time i pitched here. and when you think about the names that have come knew this home side, this home clubhouse and home dugout, there's a rich tradition. a tradition of winning. and to be associated with it now in this uniform is extremely humbling. >> so it's a ballpark. pretty much like any other ballpark. with a couple of exceptions. the memories that you have. of seeing yaz play here, of seeing the curse ended in 2004 after 85 years of not winning the world series. this ball yard has so many places that are special places,

because they fill the mind with thoughts of when you were young. or thoughts of yesterday. or hopes for tomorrow. the red seat in the bleachers with ted williams hitting one of the longest home runs ever. the whole thing, the feeling of sitting here, splendid in sunshine, filled with hope every year. every year is going to be the year. it's fenway park. it is a ballpark. but it's a little bit more than just that. ♪ >> that's so nice. and mike is headed to st. louis today to catch the cardinals' home opener. thank you to larry and then in a few weeks -- i love fenway. >> fenway is great. >> fenway is great. i've got to bring my family there this summer. >> we should go to camden yards. >> equal coverage. >> we're taking the show on the road to chicago. we're going to be live from wrigley field on wednesday, april 23rd. that's pretty good. >> that's great. >> i've never been there.

up next, what, if anything, did we learn today? ♪ chicago is the best place i ever know ♪ i'm meteorologist bill karins. continuing to watch another strong, soaking storm in the southeast. this one is going to be moving up the east coast during the day. but the threat of severe weather will most likely be in the southeast, with even a few tornadoes possible throughout the day. that rain arrives up into new england as we go throughout tonight and lingers tomorrow morning. (vo) you are a business pro. maestro of project management. baron of the build-out. you need a permit... to be this awesome. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. and only national is ranked highest in car rental customer satisfaction by j.d. power.

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good news, we have a free epic golf course we have to play. bad news, we have to go to scotland, but that's okay too. >> the bad news, you have to bring me along if you want to go. how about that? >> oh, yeah. >> 87 or whatever. >> way too early. stick around, though. chuck todd, straight ahead. after a huge turnout in afghanistan's election, we go live to kabul as the counting continues and the process gets praise from everybody, from president obama and his predecessor, george w. bush. have things turned a bit in afghanistan? in the meantime, speaking of bush, his younger brother jeb turned some heads in texas with talk of 2016 on his mind. "wall street journal" says his democratic dine he is particular counterpart is freezing the field. plus, kentucky fried pickin. mitch mcconnell's fight has less