there she is. the real life barbie. earlier in the show we asked but your best and most creative to human barbie doll. she's blowing up on the internet after her "gq" interview. we have some of the best tweets. >> so ann marie told us her eyes remind me of this cute little guy. >> a bush baby, right? >> yes. definitely looks like him a lot. >> and it didn't go so well when they met. >> no. he didn't like her. >> there they are. that's the end of "way too early." "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ saved by harrison. takes the shot. back out to andrew for the

three. and that one's off. in the hands with five seconds. and this most improbable tournament run comes to an end with a uconn championship! the huskies once again are in basketball heaven. >> good morning. it's tuesday, april the 8th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set, msnbc contributor mike barnacle, msnbc political analyst and visiting professor to nyu darryl ford jr. and willie geist. what a game last night, man. >> it was. it was a good game. kentucky had their chances. couldn't make free throws, couldn't make shots, turned the ball over down the stretch. uconn as a seventh seed wins 60-54. they're the highest seed to win since villanova beat georgetown in 1985. kentucky made a run to come back, give them credit. they just couldn't get over that

hump. they got within one point in the second half, kentucky did. but they actually never led in the game. it was uconn driving the entire way. and as i said, bush and clinton were sitting next to each other. tony romo and jerry jones in that box. kentucky just couldn't get over the hump. >> kentucky fans could have been forgiven for believing they would come back. this happened against louisville. they came back and won the last two minutes. it looked like these young kids were going to make an incredible run at the end. >> oh, my lord. >> john calipari at half-time said something that probably described better than any of us could describe the plight of the kentucky team, the plight of the team. five young kids, freshmen all starters. when asked at half-time why things weren't going the way he thought they'd be going with one specific player, calipari looked at the reporter and said he's

18. it happens. >> but incredible run by uconn. nobody expected them to get there. nobody expected kentucky to get there. improbable ending. >> the connecticut team was built a little bit like the louisville team last year. the guard play was excellent. big guys that excel in the tournament. you and i were at the iowa state and connecticut eastern regional, kind of looked good there. i didn't think they'd make it this far. >> nobody expected this. >> but they played better as a team. and one of the things i think this shows, if you have your team playing well as a unit heading into the sweet 16, you've got a chance to win it all. kevin ollie never made the tournament before. 5-0 in tournament. congratulations to him. >> nine or ten nba teams, eleven years. jim calhoun. >> calhoun recruited some of the guys on this team.

the seniors were all his players. napier, the first senior to come back and win a national champ. >> and that kid right there is a great player. shabazz napier and his buddy in the back court. if you haven't watched them play all year, wow. are they both great guards. >> unbelievable. warren buffett can offer $80 billion and nobody's coming close to this. it is march madness for a reason, willie. man. >> uconn a couple weeks ago at the beginning of the tournament was 66-1 to win. if you laid cash in vegas on that if you're into that thing, you would have done well for yourself. >> .03% of people who made up brackets had connecticut. >> how many people can connecticut playing kentucky in the finals? >> nobody. >> there couldn't be. >> kentucky was a popular choice to get bounced many the first round. all right. let's hit the news.

>> jeb bush knew he was stirring up potential backlash over the weekend when he said many immigrants come to america legally in what he call an act of love for their family. senator ted cruz a potential rivalry for bush if both sides to run for bush. >> there's no doubt immigrants come because they're seeking a better life for their kids. and all of that is positive and beneficial. what isn't positive is breaking the law to do so. >> he said it's not a felony. >> in my view we need to be a nation that welcomes and celebrates legal immigrants. >> senator cruz was also asked about 2016 and whether an establishment candidate would be good for the republican party. >> you know, i do think there are folks in washington who want to pick the party's nominee. and they inevitably want to pick a nominee who they think won't rock the boat. and in my view from the perspective of a republican who believes we need to win and we need to win because the

country's on the wrong path because we're facing enormous fiscal economic challenges, i think the only way republicans win is to have a candidate who runs as a strong conservative with a positive, hopeful, optimistic message. that's the path to victory. and i don't think washington elites are going to be effective picking the nominee. i think it will be quite rightly a decision for grassroots to make. >> is jeb bush a strong candidate? >> that's for the voters to say. >> talking to jake tapper there. we go to the immigration question, we talked about it yesterday. it only took a few hours for some conservatives, ted cruz among them, although he was complimentary of jeb bush saying i like him but disagree with him on this issue. >> yeah. i do too. i think a lot of conservatives who respect jeb and understand where he's coming from here just disagree with him. again, for reasons of fairness like i said. a father from pakistan, a father from ukraine loves their child as much as a father from mexico

who comes to the country illegally to help their child. >> one thing yind about his comment yesterday, was he urging a -- was he encouraging people to violate the law or saying i understand why they do it? i think there's a difference. >> i don't think he was encouraging, but i think he was saying he understands that the republican party should embrace it and they should embrace i think aggressive immigration reform. but, again, tonally, i'll just say it, that rang a lot of bells for moderates. i think some conservatives looked at it with a question mark over their heads. there are some pushing for immigration reform. >> is this a way to test the waters? is this a way to see if they will embrace you? >> i think jeb is not wringing his hands, but doesn't seem to be all in on this presidential thing. and i think he's deciding that he's going to do it if he can do

it his way. and as he said, if he can do it joyfully. if he goes out and makes these statements and gets backlash, then i think that makes it less likely for him to run. i do want to say i think ted cruz is right on the conservative front. and i've said this all along and said it in my book that republicans don't do well when they nominate establishment candidates. they don't do well when establishment candidates that are washington moderates and i said it time and time again in my book, mod cat temperamentally and there has to be a contrast. regardless of whether you agree with me on that front because people like bob dole, gerald ford, bush 41 after he raised taxes, mitt romney, john mccain, they lose presidential elections. the quote, reasonable ones of the mainstream media lose presidential elections.

the ones who the media thinks are crazy like ronald reagan, they win 49 states. i think we can all agree with ted cruz that an establishment candidate in 2016, what seems to be the safe way forward probably not the safe way forward if washington thinks it's the right thing to do with 90% approval ratings. >> isn't the split not so much -- ted cruz said candidates picked in d.c., you know, who won't rock the boat. but isn't it candidates selected in washington, people in washington, politicians in washington looking for a winner, not someone who won't rock the boat. you have to have someone who can win. some think jeb bush can win. i don't think if that's the case. we'll see -- why the fault line cracks just based on the immigration statement he made. how long will this continue? and i think you're right. if it continues for two, three, four weeks with rand paul

jumping in and whacking jeb bush, i think he might pull back a little. >> bush versus clinton, willie, it's again with more americans disgusted with washington, d.c. than ever before, either party going back 25 years in a rematch of a battle 25 years ago, i think is actually taking risks. sometimes doing the most, quote, conservative thing can be the most dangerous. >> yeah. i think that's probably true. it's not exactly a new day if you're talking about bush versus clinton. but it's nice in practice and it's well and good, excuse me, in theory to say we can't have an establishment candidate. who is that non-establishment candidate who also can win. you're saying you don't want an establishment candidate but it's also important we can win. who are those people? look at 2012 and look on the stage. if it wasn't mitt romney, the establishment candidate, who was it? who of that group was going to win? you look ahead to 2016.

>> herman cain. >> if you look at the last presidential races, presidents were not the establishment candidate. barack obama was not. bill clinton was not. ronald reagan was not. jimmy carter was not the establishment candidate. both parties are picking people outside what we would consider the establishment. >> republicans -- >> it's the people who win. >> it's the group of winners. >> winning candidates come outside of the establishment. now, the question today is if not only the people want to win, i think the country wants the country to work again. so the question i have is are we willing to take a bush versus clinton as much as that's old school and as much as that may be looking backwards in some people's eyes, do young people, do your sons view that as something looking backwards or do regular mainstream voters say these guys can actually get something done. so i'm willing. >> how excited would your sons be with a bush v. clinton?

>> anything else on? >> they'd be excited by rand paul or kasich or walker? >> i think for people of that age, 20s, 30s, i think a lot of people would look at the candidates saying which of these candidates scares me the least. that's in their minds. especially with the republican field. once you get past a moderate and he is a moderate republican, jeb bush, and you look at the rest of the field, some of them -- some of the things they say scare people. i mean, the underpinnings, they do. they scare people some of the things they say. you listen to some of the things they say, it's scary. they don't want government to function. >> right. some of these other people, you mean. >> yeah. >> that's all i mean. if it's not jeb bush or whoever your establishment candidate is, it's fine to say we don't want that person, but who are the other people? who is the one who can win? >> the question is the republican party -- look how when democrats win, they go

outside. but look since 1988, let's go back 25, 30 years. you had mitt romney who was nominated. the son of a guy that ran an auto company in michigan. and before him you had john mccain, the son of the guy that ran the united states navy. before him you had george w. bush, the son of a president and vice president and ambassador to china and ambassador to the u.n. and head of the republican party. you know, before him you had bob dole who was sort of an exception to the rule, but he was washington establishment. before him you had george h.w. bush. >> he may have been the only true washington creature of the group we're talking about. w. ran as an outsider, a texan. h.w. was the creature of d.c. >> but they're all not only establishment candidates in washington, they're establishment candidates in america. the republican party has been nominating since 1988 with the exception of bob dole guys whose fathers ran the world.

i'm just saying it hasn't done us a lot of good. when we actually -- the last guy that did us a lot of good and grew the party actually went to eureka college in illinois. there's a reason because when you mix conservatism and populism or feel for middle america, that's powerful. and we just -- it's something that this party hasn't had pride in in a long time. >> and he did not scare people. >> oh, journalists, go back and see -- were you writing in '76 and '80, i'd love to see what you wrote. >> i used to write funny stuff. >> everybody called reagan a nut job. >> i can remember writing he wanted to send arms to central america and i'd write stuff about sending hands there. >> because he was an outsider. he was outside of the mainstream. >> scared the hell out of people

like mike barnacle who now look back at him fondly with a glint in his eye. >> two of your presidents are california republicans. nixon, obviously reagan. again, california and texas have produced republican presidents over the last 30 years or so. again, it's hard to put on the points. i think people are more interested in the country working. i think the country might be willing to accept because they realize they may get a functioning government regardless of the winner. >> willie, front page talking about unrest in ukraine and putin. obviously wanting to extend his reach even more. >> people wondered after he went in originally would there be more. looks like there's beginning to be more. developing news overseas where there are new concerns russia may make another move into the eastern part of ukraine.

pro-russian protesters were driven out of the country's second largest city. protesters set fires in front of an assembly building. protesters clashed with troops there. also seized control of a government building in another city further into ukraine. they're promising to hold a referendum next month on becoming an independent republic. the demonstrators asked vladimir putin to send soldiers to the area as, quote, peace-keeping forces. however, the white house says there is strong evidence that many of those protesters were paid. the events bear a striking resemblance to what happened in crimea last month prompting a warning from the white house. >> if russia moves in, this would be a serious escalation. we call on president putin and his government to cease all efforts to destabilize ukraine and caution against further military intervention. >> these protesters the white

house says are paid for russians to come help them. putin said we have to help russian-speaking people in ukraine. >> they're moving east or moving west and the white house threatens or warns putin. with what? with what? >> i'm told yesterday by a couple of people in washington the biggest fear in the administration is they fear putin's inability to control what has been set in motion here. could rapidly get out of hand. >> well, it looks like it is. you just wonder if the white house response is going to be any stronger as this moves west. what are the options? i don't know. there are some very strong options on the table right now. short of military force, the president's going to have to be extraordinarily engaged. it means he has to fly to

germany to send a message and sit with merkel and the rest of the eu. they need to let putin know if he continues going westward, he's going to pay a heavy price. you know what? all i'll say is this. the president has lots of options. i don't know what he's doing behind closed doors, but i can say this. i know this wouldn't be happening if george h.w. bush was sending james baker over to germany to take care of things. i'm sorry. i don't mean to sound overly simplistic, but vladimir putin has absolutely no fear of a strong united states taking the leadership role and actually hurting him. hitting him where it hurts. >> since you talk to these folks that a military option has to be exercised just to recapture, regain the sense that we are strong or even in the eyes of putin that is -- >> a military option?

>> right. that something has to be done more than diplomacy to stop. >> no. we don't need a military option. we need strong economic sanctions. we can choke russia off. they're a glorified gas station. i mean, even when they were the soviet union i had a law professor that went over there and came back. i said what was it like? he said it's a third world country with nuclear weapons. we can choke them off but it requires leadership and an american president that's going to go over to europe and forcefully act and get germans and the british and others that have an economic stake in russia to stand shoulder to shoulder with us. >> i agree. if what you're saying is right, how do you reconcile the two points? if putin can't stop this even with the economic sanctions, how does that translate into a different -- >> i think from what i'm told if

the united states cut off russian banks and ability to deal with western banks, putin would i think become very actively involved in what's going on the ground in ukraine immediately. the other aspect of it is is what if ukraine were fast forward in membership into nato. >> i don't know. but i do know that vladimir putin could stop this if he wanted to. >> yes. >> there's no doubt about it. and again "the new york times" reporting that a lot of these protesters were paid. it does bear a striking resemblance to what's happened in crimea. and if we sit back on our heels and continue to just issue weak warnings from the white house, he's going to be in kiev. so we'll see. coming up, we have congressman steny hoyer and valerie jarrett. later "morning joe" goes to st. louis for the home opener.

that was big. mike barnacle, you and claire mccaskill. >> great time was had by all. she is great and legitimate baseball fan. >> she's great. coming up next, the top stories but first here's bill kairns with a check of the forecast. what's it look like? >> that's coming. spring fever is on its way. first we have a rough morning. eastern north carolina 12 were hurt by a tornado. but not these two gentlemen. they did the opposite of what storm chasers do. they floored it when they saw a tornado forming behind them while they were leaving work. this tornado was on the ground for awhile in eastern north carolina. you can see they high tailed it out of there. let's show you what we're dealing with this morning. heavy rain right over the top of new york city as we speak. there's a thunderstorm, lightning strikes with it. moving over long island, into connecticut shortly. i-95 into new york city, it's going to be a slow drive over the next hour.

north florida drenched from jacksonville all the way from the florida turnpike from about gainesville. and eventually into the tampa area late this morning. orlando same with you. so now for the good news. we get rid of the storm. warm pacific air moves across the country. this is mild pacific air. we go today from 52 in minneapolis to 58 in kansas city. and look what happens as we go into wednesday. we are 73 in minneapolis tomorrow. we had half a foot of snow yesterday. washington, d.c., new york city, boston, you're in for a great stretch as the warm air heads east. the cherry blossoms in d.c. are going to peak. thursday, friday, saturday, sunday, this is the weekend in d.c. if you want to see the cherry blossoms. head out to the mall. looks like a fantastic forecast we all deserve after the miserable winter we're now seeing in the rearview mirror. "morning joe" coming right back.

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hey. it's time to take a look at the morning papers. let's start from "the dallas morning news." new information about the shooting rampage at ft. hood. u.s. army says it followed a dispute over requests by the gunman to take a leave from the post. officials say ivan lopez got in argument with fellow soldiers over the request. the army has also released the detailed timeline of the shooting spree which left three people dead and 16 injured. >> "new york post" a man charged with smuling cocaine inside frozen meet at jfk airport. >> is that against the law now? >> after noticing the unusual packages in his suitcase last month. officials found a powdery

substance which tested positive for cocaine. >> look at that. >> my lord. >> "the boston globe," a convict looking for freedom from a crime he says he didn't commit has an unlikely ally. whitey bulger. he's been behind bars for 32 years, says he was framed by bulger himself. bulger has tried to write letters to help overturn the murder conviction. >> there's a credible witness. >> yeah. let mim go. >> freshman republican vance mcallister was caught on camera kissing a married staffer. the video is dated december 23rd, less than two months after the married louisiana lawmaker won a special election. congressman mcallister's campaign focused on family values. in a statement he admitted to falling short and asked for forgiveness from god, his family, and his constituents. >> so it wasn't just a peck on the cheek.

>> wow. >> boy, let's run that all morning. >> wow. >> i was giving him the benefit of the doubt and then that tape went on and on and on. >> also in "usa today" the airlines are reporting their second best ratings. 14 top airlines showed virgin airlines scoring the highest, jetblue, hawaiian, and alaskan airways. they were judged on arriving on time, mishandling of bags. united airlines is the worst. let's keep this up for a second. remember when this show first started? delta, they would literally not only lose my bags but they would beat me up while i was trying to find them with clubs. >> remember when the two pilots pulled you aside and hit you with blackjacks? >> yes.

i've said it before and will say it again, delta, it's gotten to a point now where i go out of my way to actually fly delta because delta and jetblue are just great. >> have you ever flown virgin? >> yeah. >> virgin is great. they got better food. >> virgin's the best. but they don't have as many routes as everybody else. but they're incredible. >> what i don't like about virgin, creepy blue lights and they do commercials. i'm on the plane, just let me be when your taxiing out. this week only at kmart there's a special for virgin airline passengers and it keeps going and going and going. just, you know what? >> can you do that voice again? >> it's a long flight to l.a., just relax. >> that's like when they try to sell you the airline credit card. you're in the turbulence like that and the guy comes on, for a limited time only, they got you locked in, the plane's going down and want to sell you a

credit card. >> you get the oxygen mask, frequent flier miles in the sky. >> and jetblue, man. especially for kids. if you're flying with your kids, why would you fly any other airline? that's all i'd like to say. >> i'm looking forward to that. >> you will find out in a few years. now with us from chicago, who do we have? >> we have mike allen. he's got a look at the playbook. mike on the road this morning, huh? >> good morning, guys. politico is doing an event tomorrow with mayor emanuel. >> excellent. let's talk about what's on the site today. politico magazine has a feature called harry reid's kryptonite. it talks about how much he can get in when the safety net fails him. uses campaign funds to purchase holiday gifts from his granddaughter's jewelry business. take us inside this. >> by the way, leaving her last name off. leaving reid off of there. >> tell us about the piece,

mike. >> yeah, so last month harry reid agreed to pay back that nearly $17,000 that went to his granddaughter's jewelry company. he said it was just a couple gifts for friends. the search light spirit, but this piece for politico magazine by john rolston, the long-time las vegas reportering with someone who's covered harry reid throughout his career, pulls back the camera and points out that harry reid's kryptonite, something that leaves him so vulnerable to charges from his critics to youtube moments is his relationship with his family. willie, this piece points out that harry reid has a daughter and four sons owl of whom are involved in some way in nevada politics. and that's created problems over the years, questions about whether or not his campaign, his government has been helping them. and these questions go back years including, you may

remember this, when harry reid made another refund to his campaign for a christmas gift to his ritz-carlton doorman in d.c. >> so talk about the underlining story about the daughter. what exactly did he do. the granddaughter. >> yeah. he bought holiday gifts from the campaign which a politician can do, as you know, they can do all things through the campaign. but the way that the payment was listed in the records as you suggested made it unclear that she was a relative. the fec looked into it. the campaign wouldn't answer for a long time and finally said, well, this was fine. these were some gifts to supporters. but we're going to give the money back. and the point of this piece, harry reid's kryptonite, is this is the one place, this relationship with relatives, where harry reid has left himself open to all kinds of criticism. just doesn't seem willing to

acknowledge the appearances here. >> mike, it's also making matters worse that he tried to keep her name off and hide it. >> he doesn't need his campaign to pay his tips and gifts. >> i understand him not listing the name of his granddaughter to avoid any link and everything like that, but what in essence is wrong with a harry reid or a jim smith or anybody using campaign funds which are legal to use to buy gifts from a store owned by a relative? >> well, this is for people to make up their minds, they do amazing things with these campaigns as you know some politicians will every single day they'll have a charge to their local starbucks and they say they're meeting with a donor. really? on the way to work every single day? and so there's very loose rules about how these campaigns spend

the money, but here he was asked about it not just by the press and by john rolston who says that harry reid has not spoken to him for years, the best-known politician in the state not speaking to the best-known journalist in the state for years because of perceived slights in the coverage of harry reid's children. >> i can't say if it's against the law or not, but it's just bush league. i can't imagine raising money and then writing checks for $17,000 to family members to give gifts to donors. it's just bush league. >> you know, if there's nothing -- i think your question is the key. did anybody break the law here? he's got to deal with it. i tell you, i kind of respect a guy that protects his family. >> what do you mean? >> i think when press goes after people's family, i can understand his reaction. >> the press isn't going after his family. >> you say he and ralston go back a bit because of slights

against his family. i'm sensitive about my family as well. >> it's about harry reid funneling money to his family. >> but it'd be different if he -- i'm not here to defend him. but if he bought stuff and they never delivered the gifts, i could understand this. if they got the gifts, he should not have represented her on the report. her name should have been on the list. if they tried to mislead people, that's problematic. >> some people would say your job -- if you were given a public trust, you're giving that public trust not to enrich your family. >> those are campaign contributions. if you don't want to give him an contribution after this story, you have the right to do that. >> because it's not the right thing to do. there are a lot of jewelers in nevada. why go to your granddaughter and enrich her and then try to hide it from the fec? >> i think that may be the issue. >> and why would he hide it from

the fec? because there is something if not legally wrong with it, it's just ethically wrong to use your position while you're in the senate to enrich family members. >> and if you're asked about -- >> that seems simple to me. >> that i agree with. >> and if you're asked about it and don't answer forthrightly, it just makes you look like you think you're guilty. >> check out the piece on politico magazine. coming up, shabazz napier carries the uconn huskies to the title. we'll break down the game for you including napier's surprising comment after the game. "morning joe" sports is next. [ male announcer ] this is joe woods' first day of work.

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all right. time for some sports. the uconn huskies as we mentioned are your national basketball champions. to the highlights from the stadium in arlington, texas. 80,000 people in the building. beautiful baseline move, deandre daniels. but it was the guards that dominated for uconn. stutter step spin, ryan boatright. harrison is stopped but he helps the wildcats stay in striking

distance. senior shabazz napier, a deep three unstoppable in the first half. he had 22 points. up four going into the half. saw there presidents bush and clinton sits side by side watching the game. second half, connecticut's james young. what's he about 6'3," 6'4"? and one. >> scarborough country, baby. >> looked like it might turn there. again with the follow-up and the foul there. down only four points. final minute now, kentucky down six needing a score but defense locks it down. after a couple misses by kentucky. uconn your national champions. the final score 60-54. >> ladies and gentlemen, you're looking at the hungry huskies. this is what happens when you ban us last year, two years. we work sod hard for it. two years. hungry huskies.

>> i thought at half-time we were going to win the game. i thought the start of the half, and then i saw the game go a little wild. all i can ask the guys. put us in the position. give them something extra. and we didn't give them enough to get them over the top. >> it's a great feeling. it's unbelievable. it's unbelievable because those guys, my players stayed with the program. i'm the first one to deflect all the attention. those players that was up here, they should get all the attention. because if it wasn't for them, this program wouldn't be here. >> how about kevin ollie walking into a uconn program where he didn't know what they were going to happen, they were banned in winning the national championship. unbelievable. >> incredible about him. we have a special cam are, i don't know if you know this, we have a special camera in the south of france. now, mika is put -- it's horrible. and i don't know who would do this, but when she goes on

vacation, it's unethical, she actually has a screen behind her. so when she's on vacation in france, it looks like way. >> it's weird. >> i would to say who would do that? i do want to say this. mika did not tell the truth to the american people yesterday. she acted all dumb. i don't know this, i don't know. that's her shtick, right? mika brzezinski has been watching -- i found this out yesterday -- every single uconn game throughout the entire tournament. she's a huge uconn fan. >> i'm a husky fan. >> you are a husky fan. admitted to the american people from your villa in niese. >> the washington bureau downstairs closet looks really great right now. but if you want to call it niese, that's great. because who would put a camera in their home so they can be

lazy? i don't know who would do that. >> i don't know. >> who would do that? yeah. anyway, yeah. i love the huskies. i've been following them for years. and i actually -- i've been in the audience with a painted face screaming. >> really? >> yeah. >> she's a big husky fan. you never knew that. >> and a big one tonight. uconn women. >> there's a huge game. >> notre dame's undefeated. uconn's undefeated. j geno auriemma is getting into gruden territory. it'd be his ninth win. >> i think the pope is going to the game. >> all right. go huskies. >> sure. >> or irish. >> go huskies. come on geno, we love geno. >> it's time to go.

all right, coming up next how today's politicians are taking a page from the past. mika's must read opinion page is next. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." it starts with little things. tiny changes in the brain. little things, anyone can do. it steals your memories. your independence.

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♪ whoo-hoo! ♪ [ male announcer ] our priority has always been saving the day. because our priority... amazing! [ male announcer ] ...is you! the amazing spider-man 2 delivered by the united states postal service. ♪ i. i'm rodney davis. growing up i cleaned tables and washed dishes at my parents' restaurant. i saw how hard they worked for our family. >> mom was a postal clerk. dad was an iron worker. they taught me everything. >> when i was waiting tables, washing dishes, or mowing lawns for money, i never thought of

myself as stuck in some station in life. >> i was born in a little town called hope, arkansas. three months after my father died. i remember living in that old two-story house where i lived with my grandparents. >> all right. so the question is, joe, what are today's kids going to do when they go on the campaign trail. say, when i was growing up i took a lot of selfies and i had the internet everywhere. time now for the must-read opinion pages. >> i remember polishing daddy's bentley. it wasn't easy. >> and i remember all my devices. with us in new york, former governor of pennsylvania and nbc news political analyst ed rendell. and in washington, correspondent for "the new york times" magazine mark liebovic. you write about this. how not to seem rich when running for office. in recent years, american politics has been overrun by an adversity-theft epidemic. these days the practice has infested campaigns across the

country at every level. wherever the tiresome same ♪ note and media consultants can be heard. pretty much everywhere. endured by many of today's politicians came before they were born. absent real hardships, modern politicians have gotten creative or what passes for creative in the campaign. do you have to have a hard knock story to run for office these days? >> i don't know if you have to have it, but it seems to be the note everyone clings to. you have more wealthy candidates running for office than you have before. it's been a very prosperous generation. and what every candidate does is they feel the need to tell the story of the great-grandfather who came to this country with $11 in his pocket. they always start washing dishes

and always end up owning the diner. >> for sure. >> and they stand on the shoulders of these people and it's touching. also i drove here myself. i didn't do one of the car service things. >> what's a car service? >> joe, you would not know. joe, isn't it, though, a little bit about trying to connect with people? >> doesn't this go all the way back to, you know, abraham lincoln born in the log cabin? >> sure. >> it shows a popular streak down the country. we want to know the candidate can relate to us or at least some point they were relating to us. >> or perhaps their grandfather's life. >> it's true. there was always a need or desire to connect. the distinction i'm making is compared to our forefathers and harry truman and bill clinton himself who did have a very difficult childhood, many of today's candidates actually had every privilege growing up. you see a lot of these wealthy

candidates talking about the experience that had absolutely nothing to do with their existence. it is the one note you see a lot from media consultants. i thought i would call it out a bit. >> especially you look at those. i was talking more about the republican party's problems getting the sons of elites. not a whole lot of state school guys there. >> saying they were the supreme court. it's stunning. from two law schools, nine justices. it is difficult. but on the other hand, you can look at american politics maybe fdr did more for poor people than any president, and he came from extreme wealth. >> he took on the wealthy more than any other president. >> sure. >> what was your hard luck story? >> i came from a solid middle class background. i had if not every privilege, i had most privileges. i never tried to paint otherwise. my first race, joe, was against a very good lawyer. he put in his campaign brochure that he was a son of immigrant

grandparents. now, you got to think that through. we got him on that one. >> son of immigrant grandparents. that sounds like it's straight out of your article. so give us some of your best examples of this. >> there are a ton of them. first of all, one of the feat e featured characters is george demos who's running for congress in the hamptons. he talks all about his grandfather, a greek immigrant who went to work washing dishes in the diner in new britain, connecticut. did of course end up owning the diner. george, of course, went to trinity high school in manhattan, went to columbia, went to warton law school. he barely knew his grandfather at all. and that's the first line of his website. we hear all about his grandfather. i mean, there are a ton of examples. again, look, everyone wants to put themselves in the continuum of the great american story and to do that you connect with the

tradition of horatio and rags to riches. it's something that's very compelling. the problem is someone like bill clinton who did struggle who did this so well. he turned a personal story into narrative gold. and he has inspired this generation of people who aren't nearly as good as he is as a politician. but also who themselves didn't have the hardship he had when he was a young boy. again, i just think the trend is very, very, very significant for today's politics. >> all right, mark. thank you so much. great to have you back on the show again. still ahead, president obama makes good on his pen and phone promise by signing an executive action on equal pay later today. we're going to go live at the white house with valerie jarrett. keep it right here on "morning joe." (vo) you are a business pro. maestro of project management.

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♪ . coming up top of the hour, is jeb bush the right person to lead the republican party? ben white and ben smith and chuck todd is here. the battle of the bens. this is getting ugly right now. we'll talk about it when we return. we've got a fight coming up in the mud. [ female announcer ] who are we?

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♪ you know that i am completely in love with mayor rob ford. i want to know everything about him, so you can imagine how excited i am about this new documentary one of the canadian channels is running. >> discovery canada presents a rare glimpse at one of nature's most powerful and voracious predators, the great white ford. savage, cunning. >> mayor ford --

>> ford has a thick, beefy hide to both insulate him from the elements and provide cushion when he falls. >> hut! >> in the spring, the ford does an elaborate mating dance. but once he has chosen a suitable partner, the coupling is quick and violent. the great white ford, only on discovery canada. >> oh, lord. that is so good. >> incredible. >> whoa. welcome back to "morning joe." holy cow. with us on set we've got the editor of buzzfeed ben smith, chief correspondent and author of "the morning money" column, ben white. man, they got into a fight yesterday. the fight of the bens. >> the bens, it's unbelievable. >> and also msnbc chief white house correspondent and host of

"the daily rundown," chuck todd. >> you don't want to get the bens. that's a bad thing. no offense. >> willie, it's pretty interesting. there's a reversal here. my hair used to be really short, right? >> yes. it's not now. >> see how short my hair used to be. >> don't put that picture up. what are you doing? >> reverend al, you know, his hair is really short now. right? see how short his hair is. look. we've switched. we've switched. now he gave up his do right here, right there. and i took it from him. see? right there. >> i like al's better. >> which one do you like better? >> i like rev's more. >> you're just bragging that you can grow hair. >> yeah. >> that's pretty impressive. >> i got a lot of it. coral bernstein reached over and

grabbed it. goes, is that real? >> that's a great reporter for you. >> right to the truth there. >> look at the roots. of the story. >> al worked for the fbi. be careful. >> he denies the report. >> does he? >> that's part of the deal, isn't it? always deny with the fbi. >> see. that's more evidence he's still working for the fbi. if he goes yeah, that's true. it'd be, wait a second. >> one small point about that story -- >> you have an opinion on everything. >> why is it all of a sudden a bad thing to spy on the mob? aren't we supposed to? >> no. bringing down the mob is a good thing. we're against the mob and i'm sure reverend al is against the mob. i do love that hair. good lord, that takes me back. actually takes me back to last night when i -- you know, before i put in my hair net. then i put curlers in it.

>> it's working. >> is it working for me? >> yeah. >> going to make it like frampton's. it's going down to my belt buckle. >> i'd like to tell the viewers something. >> did you see how long it could go? >> travrp ton comes alive in '76. it doesn't grow long. it grows out. >> six minutes past the top of the hour and this is why -- >> stop wasting our time and get to the news. >> this is what happens when you're not here. >> this is why i have to sit next to you in new york and i have to leave niese and come back. usually i get to kick you and it's usually with one of my donnie heels. it works so much that you shut up. but no, six minutes about joe and rev's hair. okay. we can do that. do you guys need more? >> i can keep going. i just did six minutes. i could do 12 if you like. >> no. actually it's a big day here in washington and we'll be telling you about that a bit later.

but first politics. jeb bush knew he was stirring up potential backlash over the weekend when he said many immigrants come to america illegally as an act of love for their family. here's what the former governor said plus a response now from senator ted cruz of texas. >> i'm going to say this and it'll be on tape and so be it. the way i look at this is someone who comes to our country because they couldn't come legally, they come to our country because their families, you know, a dad who loved their children was worried that their children didn't have food on the table and wanted to make sure their family was intact. they crossed the border because they had no other means to work to provide for their family. yes, they broke the law, but it's not a felony. it's kind of -- it's a -- it's an act of love. >> there's no doubt that immigrants come to this country because they're seeking a better world, seeking the american dream, and they're seeking a better life for their kids.

all of that is positive and beneficial. what isn't positive and beneficial is breaking the law to do so. >> he said it's not a felony. >> well, look. in my view we need to be a nation that welcomes and celebrates legal immigrants. >> senator cruz was also asked about 2016 and whether an establishment candidate would be good for the party. >> you know, i do think there are folks in washington who want to pick the party's nominee. and they inevitably want to pick a nominee who they think won't rock the boat. and in my view from the perspective of a republican who believes we need to win and we need to win because the country's on the wrong path because we're facing enormous fiscal and economic challenges, i think the only way republicans win is to have a candidate who runs as a strong conservative with a positive, hopeful, optimistic message. that's the path to victory. i don't think washington elites will be effective in picking the

nominee. it is a decision for the grassroots to make. >> a jeb bush a strong candidate? >> that's for the voters to say. >> willie geist, at the dinner table with my dad last night we were talking about the republican candidates. jeb bush was one of two names that came up and i think other republicans are nervous at this point. >> what who does he like? does he like jeb bush? >> ask him when he comes on. you might be surprised. >> we'll ask ben smith about this. might have mixed feelings about this. >> we're trying to read through the lines here. >> reads why jeb bush is a terrible candidate. quote, the notion that jeb bush is going to be the republican presidential, ben writes, is a fantasy that changed radically during the 12 years he last ran for office. he missed the transformation of his brother to squish. the rise of the tea party, the molding of his peer mitt romney into a movement conservative and

the ascendancy of the new generation of politicians who have been fully trained, shaped in that new dynamic. those men occasionally break with the movement scorning today's republican party by contrast the core of jeb's political identity. >> so i better get the ouija board out tonight and try to see what he thinks. >> tough to read through the lines. >> do you think there's nothing redeeming about him? >> this isn't about redemption, but i think that he -- i mean, i think there's a school of republicanism, maybe the jon huntsman school or joe scarborough school that tells the party they need to change. mitt romney, that he's a technocratic governor. but mitt romney came crawling to the base on his belly for, like, three years. pledging his loyalty to them. where jon huntsman told them to change their ways. that's how romney got the nomination. jeb does not seem inclined to do

that. >> you know, i'm a big fan of ben's. i think he's got this one pretty much totally wrong. i think you look at the republican party and who do they nominate? they nominate the establishment candidate, the one with money. they nominated dole, bush, mccain, romney. will jeb bush have problems on immigration? of course he will. will he be able to give a series of speeches where he lays out the case that going forward the republican party has got to evolve on immigration if it wants to win the white house? i think he can do that. can he talk about common core standards which will also be a way people beat up on him, i think he can do that too and say if we want to compete in the 21st century, we've got to do it with schools that work and kids that learn. i think he can do all that. he's a better politician. he dominated in florida. i would say the question is not weather jeb bush can win or not. i think he can. the question is whether he's going to run.

nobody knows. 50/50. >> ben spends a lot of time on wall street. i don't think i've seen a bigger gap between what -- >> wow. you went after him. >> exactly. i like this. >> we used to work together. but no, truly. i don't think i've ever seen a bigger gap between what republican donors and what the republican elite thinks and they would love bush to run. they deeply respect him. the issues he's really committed to, open borders and the common core educational reform, are things he's devoted to. i don't think there's a bigger divide dween what they're into. >> if you get jeb bush in a primary -- sorry i'll let you go, chuck. but does cruz beat him? i can see a grassroots candidate taking out jeb bush. but who? >> jeb bush beats himself. that's the only way he does it. i want to bring up something, chuck, to you, something that ben said about jon huntsman.

jeb is -- i mean huntsman was a great governor. i think jeb's one of the best politicians i've campaigned around or seen campaign. i wouldn't put anybody in jeb's category. that said, they do share one thing in common. and you brought my name up and this is where i separate from those two. there's sort of this hand wringing, sort of this shoulder shrugging. sort of a, my republican party, what has happened to it? and if they'll come to me, i will be their nominee. no, hell no. the only reason i bring this up is i come in hands up, fists swinging saying this is our party. there is sort of this hunts -- what would you say? huntsman-onian feel to him with the shoulder shrugging his

hands. >> what you're getting at. >> reporter: what i'm getting at is -- >> he attacked members of his own party. >> right. and all this other stuff. >> if you ever got the nomination, you need their votes. so don't insult them. to defend mr. smith over here a little bit, i do think the establishment under-reads in iowa. iowa grassroots conservatives somehow ended up with mike huckabee in '08 and rick santorum in '12. none of them had resources to do anything after that. had this been ted cruz with the likely resources or rand paul with the likely resources they would have to move on, then their ability to potentially march through many other primary states and grab the nomination. when you go to the tactical aspect of this and realize where

this thing starts, if it's not an under-funded santorum or a guy like huckabee who suddenly after he won went to do a paid speech. it didn't show that he actually wanted to be president. and it's a guy like cruz or a guy like rand paul who wants this, who actually seems to want this. then, you know, i don't know -- the establishment waited out those guys before. mitt romney waited it out. john mccain waited it out. to go to the jeb issue, if jeb wants it, i agree with you. >> that's the difference. >> but if he acts the way joe's talking about which is you guys are -- you know, i'm tired of my party being stupid. he doesn't say stupid party, that's a jindal line. but i'm tired of this. >> jeb can't do that. >> the grassroots are going to say, we want this. >> one point to this, i talked to someone who works with jeb who don't know if he's going to run or not, but if he goes he goes all in, he goes hard. he sells those policies that are

to the republican party with great passion. in a way -- >> and he should do it with passion. it shows you a principle. you could win a principle argument. >> he's not going to do it by beating up on republicans and saying the stuff that huntsman said. he's going to say these are the right ideas. this is why i believe them. this is why you should believe them. but i want to reduce regulation an want to get the economy moving. i also think we need a change on immigration, rethink this on education and sells that to people in a positive way. whether he runs or not, who knows. >> he's not romney or huntsman. >> no. >> this was much more conservative governor in the state of florida. this is not mitt romney who all of a sudden was a born-again conservative. >> jeb is a strong conservative with a dash. if jeb gets out there and he sort of gets the weights off of his shoulder and stops sighing about his republican party and

just talks about what he did in florida, that guy went to war for the teachers unions a decade and a half before chris christie went to war with the teachers unions. and went to war on florida and spendsing. the guy got whatever he wanted done in the state of florida. he was one of the strongest leaders i've seen. a hurricane had come in. george w., the reason he got in so much trouble in katrina in 2005 is because he was used to his brother running hurricanes the year before. hurricanes come in, the state shut down. >> remember who he hired to run fema, jeb bush's guy. he did on that front. >> these aren't the issue he's spent his time on since he left office. it's been education reform and immigration. so i think -- >> you bring up a fair point. look at bill clinton in '08.

if you haven't been through this news cycle, you haven't been through the buzzfeed world. >> this is the world of the last ten years. >> i agree. and bill clinton, it was a pretty stark wakeup call to him. >> bill clinton never saw it coming. south carolina. he was blindsided. i can't believe how hold and out of touch bill clinton looked in 2008. he, of course, certainly regained his footing. >> he did. >> but the way of which it gets pulled out. the way -- you can't control the context for news. and the few times jeb has gone out and done loose interviews, he has done things like saying that this isn't ronald reagan's party. >> after the arizona debate and he said it in a private speech and it got out when he said i thought i was a conservative. and then i went to debate. that leaked out i believe of a private speech. welcome to the new world. >> he'll have to tighten up his

media organization. this will be an evolution. you can do that. >> you can do that five years ago. >> he's fine. >> he's not on a lot. >> you can e-mail him. i would just say you can't underestimate how badly the republican party is going to want to win in 2016 and beat somebody like hillary. >> i think you can. >> i don't know if they want to win. >> is that the last of mitt romney they're going to take? we got to nominate the consensus elite candidate. >> it was a complete fallacy. >> right. mitt romney was a much more moderate, wealth y ier. >> and he got the nomination. >> these guys really just don't like each other. we're calling you a wall street elitist. >> i talk to wall street elitists. >> it rubs off a little. >> what does jeb bush stand for? >> he's an education candidate, absolutely. >> the actually name. where does it come from? >> john ellis bush. >> there you go.

>> these are little pieces of trivia. >> and this is his most fervent supporter here, and doesn't know his name. >> who's the jeb base? look at that. >> holy cow. you guys don't like each other. >> fileting over there. >> it's going to be a hard day on twitter. >> seriously. just wall streets elites who like the guy. >> can i ask ben smith a question then. if jeb bush is a terrible candidate, he can't win, et cetera, who can republicans nominate of the prominent figures we've seen right now, who is a more realistic nominee? and a winner? >> i think the scott walkers and marco rubios, who all have -- paul ryan. they all have their ups and downs but are all people ready for primetime. >> and would win a general election? >> who knows. that seems like a lot to predict. but they can certainly mount the credible campaigns that would depend on a lot of things. >> mika, to follow up what the

bens were saying in between fists of fury at each other, one of the most telling things of how much politics have changed on people that have been there, i remember we had ari fleischer, no friend of barack obama's at all, and nicole wallace also burned by rough treatment of the white house back in 2004, 2005. remember when we asked them, is it tougher now for barack obama and this white house than it was ten years ago? and they both said and it was the most shocking thing, they both said -- because they said no we had it the roughest, i thought. they both said immediately, yes. much tougher today. it's a much different world. there's no way i would want to be in politics in this world inside the white house. it is absolutely brutal and moves so much faster than a decade ago. if you have two bushies saying that in defense of barack obama, i mean, i think it underlines

ben's point of how things have changed over the past decade. and chuck's point of 2008, i don't remember to regurgitate the entire segment here, but chuck's point in 2008. bill clinton was off balance. he never saw any of it coming. and that was just eight years removed. jeb's going to be stepping into a brand new world. and i think that's -- i think he knows it. h he's a brilliant guy. that's probably what he's asking himself. do i want to get in the pool with the piranhas. >> that's what any good candidate is asking himself right now. any good, smart candidate that could win has to make that decision. once they get pulled into that pool, it's very hard to come out alive. ben smith, ben white, ben squared should come back. >> boy. >> that was good. >> you guys, i think, washington bureau is calling right now. walker agency. >> dozens of dollars. >> and chuck todd, what does

chuck stand for exactly? >> that's all it is. i don't have a -- i thought that was a neat little thing. john ellis bush. you think he responds to john? >> probably not. >> how long do you think he's been jeb? probably since he was a kid. >> pretty long time. >> hey, chuck? >> yes, ma'am. >> stay with us, if you can. >> i'm sorry. hard to listen to you when you're not here. >> i know. steny hoyer standing by. bill kristol joining the conversation. he has good news. new grandpa. and lindsey graham. and casey hunt travels to carolina for our series. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ameriprise asked people a simple question: in retirement, will you outlive your money? uhhh. no, that can't happen. that's the thing, you don't know how long it has to last. everyone has retirement questions.

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♪ welcome back to "morning joe." we're going to go to capitol hill in one minute, but bill kristol, we've got to follow up on the last conversation. which ben did you side with on the question about jeb bush?

is jeb bush the establishment candidate that needs to be given the nomination? >> he's the establishment hope who i don't think is likely to be the nominee. i think there's no way there will be a bush/clinton race in 2016. i'll buy all of you dinner, two bens dinner. i'm willing to go out on a limb. why is that? because the primary voters don't want to nominate someone who was last in office a decade ago. all worked up about obamacare and the policy failures that likes someone who is engaged in those fights in washington or a governor who's governed successfully in realtime. i.e., now. so scott walker or ted cruz or marco rubio or paul ryan. and i think all of them would be better candidates, probably, than jeb bush against hillary clinton. if it's bush against clinton, it's two people who have been around an awful long time, two people who inherited the mantle. then hillary gets to say i'm the

first woman president. and bush says i'm the third bush president. and all of us say conservative reform agenda, get away from the failures of the obama years, i think that is a much better message for republicans. >> let's go to capitol hill right now, we've got representative from maryland congressman steny hoyer. how you doing today? always good to see you. >> good morning, joe. good to be with you. >> well, hey. tell us, yesterday we had chuck schumer on. he said he felt like things were getting better on the senate side. they put out an agenda for working americans. how were you feeling on the house side? it's an uphill climb for democrats, but what are your chances of taking over the majority in 2014? >> well, joe, i think we have a good chance. i think the polls clearly indicate that people agree with us on almost every issue that we've talked about in terms of growing jobs and making sure that people can make it in america. so from that standpoint, i think

we're in good shape. obviously the political landscape is challenging given redistricting, but i think that given the budget that paul ryan has just offered -- you know, last year rogers the chairman of the appropriations committee referred to this budget as ill conceived and unworkable. he can add unchanged this year. the budget that is being offered on the floor this coming week, this week is a budget which disinvests. i call it ryan's retreat. it repeals the affordable care act without appealing the revenues the affordable care act generates. he uses that for tax cuts for the wealthiest in america. he changes medicare from a guaranteed program to a premium support or a non-guaranteed program in the years ahead. and he disinvests. he disinvests in education and innovation and research and

infrastructure. all the things we need to grow our economy and jobs. it's a budget that i think is going to make the republicans very vulnerable because the people are going to see a budget that they think does not help them. >> all right. so stenny, we've got a lot of people around the table. this is your one-minute morning speech drill. so we're going to go around and you're given a minute. i'll give you 45 seconds before the gavel goes down. a lot of questions. chuck? >> hey, congressman. if democrats hold onto the senate, they're going to do it because a bunch of candidates have promised to, quote, unquote, fix health care with legislation. what's one piece of legislation you could support that would fix the president's health care law when you hear alex sink ran on this issue, lot of democrats running on this issue when asked about repeals. so what's a piece of legislation you would support to fix health care? >> well, look. we're working right now on a piece of legislation that hopefully we could get tone which will make sure that we can deal with people overseas and in

a rational way who are working here in the united states. but there are a lot of things that we can address, unfortunately, chuck as you well know, for the last three years a large piece of legislation that like medicare and other pieces of large legislation need tweaking, we spent three years to repeal the affordable care act, repeal the protections that have been given to people with the diseases they now have, pre-existing conditions, seniors who are getting cheaper drugs, young people who have greater access. so from that standpoint, i know i've run my 45 seconds, from that standpoint yes we could be making sure it works as intended and as is needed. but we've been spending three years obsessively focused. >> regular order. all right. bill? >> hi. bill kristol here. you guys ran against paul ryan's road map in 2010. you ran against paul ryan's budget in 2012. you lost the house in 2010. you didn't win it back in 2012.

why is it suddenly going to work to demonize paul ryan's budget? >> well, because republicans like hal rogers the chairman says it's ill conceived and unchanged. and the budget is a budget to disinvest. the budget is to make an exceptional nation unexceptional. the budget is to really undermine the economy, to cut trillions of dollars, trillions of dollars from investment and making sure america is competitive worldwide. and it will undermine our people and working people in particular. so from that standpoint, you know, i think we can point to this budget as a budget that predicts as the wall street journal said, what the republicans would do if they took over the senate and kept the house. the american people are going to reject that. >> all right. steny hoyer. that's pretty good right there, huh? about 45 seconds to a minute. steny, it's always great seeing you. hope to see you in washington some time soon. >> always good to be with my

timer. >> very good. well, you know, because i'm so brief. thank you, steny. >> thank you. coming up, the latest installment of our series state the place. where lindsey graham is facing re-election. we'll answer whether lindsey survives another election. maybe they'll let me ask a question when return. there's a saying around here,

you stand behind what you say. around here you don't make excuses. you make commitments. and when you can't live up to them, you own up, and make it right. some people think the kind of accountability that thrives on so many streets in this country has gone missing in the places where it's needed most. but i know you'll still find it when you know where to look.

♪ 37 past. senator lindsey graham was thought to be among the most vulnerable up for re-election this year. on the state of play piece, we are taken to south carolina where graham is expected to survive. nbc news political reporter casey hunt has the story. ♪ >> i just don't want to win this election. yes, i do, but i want to do more than that. i want to make a statement about who we are in south carolina.

we're conservative, but we're not mad about it. >> reporter: senator lindsey graham is south carolina's cheerful conservative. but most republicans didn't expect 2014 to be a cheerful year for him. this is a conservative state with an active tea party and graham doesn't talk like a tea party senator. >> my sister went to college with pell grants. and i can tell you there was a time when social security benefits meant the world to my family. so i'm a republican who believes that there is a role for the government. they just can't shut us out and stifle our chances to succeed as individuals. >> reporter: he's angered the base backing immigration reform and president obama's two nominees. what are you up against here? >> well, i don't know. seven to ten people. i think incumbency is part of it. you know, washington's broken. i get that.

if any incumbent has to establish themselves now. >> reporter: less than half of south carolina's republicans said they will support graham. there are six candidates running against him. among them, lee bright, a state senator. >> i'm not so sure the founders would be in the street right now. >> reporter: and nancy mace. the first female to graduate from the citadel. groups are spending big money to help conservatives confront the establishment. >> thad caulk ron votes with jimmy carter. >> reporter: but they've stayed out of south carolina partly because they have their own flaws. bright wants to study where south carolina should have its own currency. >> we had them telling us we would should have a plan. >> reporter: nancy mace has ties to a blogger who accused nikki haley of an extramarital affair. graham's situation is a

strategy. he's appealed to the base by keeping pressure on the administration over benghazi. >> is it true that hillary clinton could not appear on the shows because she was tired? >> reporter: back home he has worked hard behind the scenes to keep stronger opponents out of the race. the south carolina house delegation is home to a pair of tea party favorites. but they decided not to run. >> i'm not discounting the candidates i have, but i think the people i work with, you know, the delegation, understands how our office delivers for the state. there's a lot of mutual respect. >> reporter: on the campaign trail, graham's tried to turn what could have been his biggest weakness, the art of compromise into his biggest strength. >> this is a time when republicans and democrats have to work together. what i like most about politics is the fighting and the give and take. both are important. there's a time to fight and a time to fix.

>> reporter: graham could still face a dangerous runoff if he doesn't win 50% of the vote. but if he wins, he'll do it on his own terms. >> i want to come out of this thing stronger. i've been challenging now. the gauntlet has been conservative. lindsey graham conservatism versus other forms of it. there is a time to find common ground. and that if you are willing to embrace that, you won't lose your job. >> reporter: now, a runoff could be tricky for graham because it would elevate one of his challengers out of the pack. but for now he's put himself in a pretty good place. >> a cheerful place. thanks very much. ed rendell has a question for you. ed? >> if there's a runoff, who would lindsey graham most like to run gheagainst in a runoff? >> reporter: i think he's actually still trying to sort that out. i mean, these challengers, any

of them could say anything at any moment. if there's someone they're concerned about it might be nancy mace. they're interested in hearing what she has to say. >> does bright have a chance? the currency guy? >> reporter: his name recognition is higher than the others. >> listening on the set here, there is a feeling that if lindsey graham does not get past the primary without a runoff, it's going to be kind of tight for him. >> yeah. >> a lot of play there. we'll see. >> it's a good piece, casey. thank you. i now feel that lindsey graham, joe, he and i have something in common. something you've been telling me that i need to be a cheerful liberal. a cheerful co-host. like a cheerful conservative sort of. >> something like that. >> right. yes. casey, thanks. we'll be looking forward to your next piece. bill kristol, thank you. congratulations by the way.

>> thank you. next, valerie jarrett joins us as president obama takes executive action today to bolster equal pay rules. plus we'll also take a look at the republican case against the law. we'll be right back. why is our arizona-based company relocating manufacturing to upstate new york? i tell people it's for the climate. the conditions in new york state are great for business. new york is ranked #2 in the nation for new private sector job creation. and now it's even better because they've introduced startup new york - dozens of tax-free zones where businesses pay no taxes for ten years. you'll get a warm welcome in the new new york. see if your business qualifies at startupny.com sfuel reward card is really what makes it like two deals in one. salesperson #2: actually, getting a great car with 42 highway miles per gallon makes it like two deals in one. salesperson #1: point is there's never been a better time

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♪ signing this bill today is to send a clear message that making our economy work means making sure it works for everybody. that there are no second class citizens in our work places and it's not just unfair and illegal, it's bad for business to pay somebody less because of their gender or their age or

their race or their ethnicity, religion, or disability. >> that was president obama signing the lilly ledbetter act in 2009. joining us is kristen kerkowski. you know where i stand on it, so having said all that i really appreciate your coming on and having a conversation about this. so welcome. >> thank you. thank you vefor having me on. >> let's start by where we stand on this. do we both agree that there is a problem and a big one we equal pay for women? >> yes. i do agree. we agree as republicans. there is a problem with discrimination. and there is a gender gap. and i guess what i wanted to come on and talk to you about is we do agree that there needs to be equal pay for equal work.

but what the democrats are doing in this conversation which is really unfortunate for voters across america, is they're not having an honest conversation. and that's what we're here to have. so first off, yes. there is discrimination in the workplace and we need to take notice of that. what the fundamental difference is we need to understand and have this conversation with america that it is illegal currently under the laws in this country to discriminate based on gender. and what we don't agree with is that we need to have more government, more regulation. that's actually -- >> but it happens. and it happens because it goes undetected. so i wonder first of all why you wouldn't support, why anybody wouldn't support the paycheck fairness act. what is the problem with transparency especially when it pertains to making sure women and men are paid equally?

>> well, we agree that there needs to be transparency. where we disagree is that this is what this legislation is going to actually achieve. we believe that actually having more regulation on employers is actually going to backfire and harm women and harm employees because there's unnecessary burden. so what we need to do is we do need to have this conversation. we need to have transparency. we need to all understand that there is work to be done, but we can't have more government in this. and we have to have an honest conversation, and we're tired of having the democrats go out there and make assertions and assumptions on what republicans believe when it's inaccurate. we all agree there needs to be equal pay for equal work. >> kirsten, let me tell you what i believe. because you talk about unnecessary burden. sometimes there needs to be an unnecessary burden. i think the fact that discrimination happens is sometimes it happens without even necessarily a concerted effort to discriminate. it just exists. there is a disparity.

i experienced this disparity and i was blessed to have a male counterpart that was willing to take on this fight with me. i was blessed to have a platform to discuss it. i was blessed to boss who was progressive and self aware enough to look at it and deal with it. what about the women who don't have this voice? what about the women who need transparency, who need companies to take on that unnecessary burden to deal with the problem so they can feed their families equally to the way men who work can feed their families. >> i don't think there's a whole lot of disagreement here. i completely understand and agree there needs to be transparency and i too am blessed to have a great boss who is willing to let me have that seat at the table or encourage me to have that seat at the table and encourage me professionally. but what i don't want, and i think where the fundamental difference is, is that i do not agree that putting more government into this problem is going to be a solution. i actually think it's going to take us backwards. so i think where we need to

focus and i think if the democrats were being honest with us and with the public is we'd start focusing on jobs and the economy. those are things that if they were to look at the 40 pieces of legislation that the house has passed that would tackle the economy and the fact that women are being hurt under this economy, then we would actually be able to move forward. but instead here we have this conversation that it seems very political because of the timing that they bring it up and that they're not willing to have an honest conversation and use math that makes sense. >> okay. i'll talk about the political timing. there isn't. this is the first thing the president did with the lily ledbetter act. there was no reason for it politically except it was the right thing to do. it seems to me you've got kathy mcmorris-rogers as the only gop woman in leadership in either chamber and a concerted effort now. it seems to me you guys could use a little good politics as it pertains to women, especially given the last presidential election. >> well, on the politics, i

disagree on the timing. i think that we have seen since the president has been in white house, they controlled the house, they controlled the senate, they controlled the white house and they did not do this. instead what we see is this creeps up every time the democrats are struggling with their messaging. when obamacare is really struggling, when the economy is really struggling, that's when all of a sudden they shift and they have this war on women. >> this isn't about obamacare. >> i'm not saying this is about obamacare. i'm saying when the democrats have nothing to talk to the voters about, they tend to talk about this and it's unfortunate because we want to have this conversation and this is a good conversation to have and transparency is good. >> kirsten, come back when we have more time because i think we should have more of a conversation about this and i don't think it creeps up when they need it. i think this is something our country needs. and i'm really glad you have a seat at the table. i hope you are paid equally for it. kirsten kukowski, thank you very much. here from the white house, valerie jarrett. valerie, i'll be joining you at

the white house today. tell me a little bit more about the executive actions that we'll be witnessing the president signing off on and why this is so important when it pertains to women trying to raise money and earn money for their families when they have that seat at the table. >> well, thank you, mika, and good morning. we're looking forward to having you at the white house for our round table conversation later this morning. what the president is doing today is signing an executive order that will prohibit federal contractors from retaliating against their employees who share compensation. he will also be signing a presidential memorandum directing the labor department to require federal contractors to collect and turn over statistics about women and based on gender and based on race. and the whole point here, and, mika, you hit the nail on the head, is that through transparency we can have an honest conversation. but many times women have no idea that they're being discriminated against. they have no idea what their

counterparts are making. and so all the president wants to do is make sure we have transparency. sometimes employers don't even know, they haven't analyzed the statistics to know that women are being paid less than men. and so since we have this wage gap, let's have a conversation and let's figure out how to close it. there is a responsible role for government here, and you're right, mika, what you said earlier was absolutely right, that even though it is against the law to discriminate based on gender, it happens all the time. and so government's role is to provide those women who are being discriminated against with the tools that they need to make sure that they get equal pay. >> so what i would imagine is that transparency actually prevents another problem, and that is something that i experienced and i have heard since i wrote a book about this from women around the country. i think the pay gap is actually wider than any of the numbers we've seen. it certainly was for me. and i think that the

transparency actually gives women the opportunity not to have to bring it to the table because it's out there, because a lot of women are afraid to. they're afraid they'll lose their jobs. they're afraid they'll get a bad reputation when really what they're doing, what i was doing is shedding light on something that needed to be fixed. >> that's exactly right. so, for example, mika, we know, statistics show that in the stem fields, science, technology, engineering and math there is a much higher pay scale. what can we do to encourage women to go into those fields that we know are growth opportunities of the future, there is expansion and job creation and where we know the pay scales are higher. we know, and mika, you and i have had this conversation, that women are primarily responsible for children and everything that happens outside of work and they need workplace flexibility in order to thrive in the environment. we need to make sure we have reliable day care in order for women to be able to stay in the workfor workforce. and so there are many, many conversations that we need to be having, but why wouldn't we give women, hard working women in

america that tool that they need to make sure that they're getting equal pay, so they have the facts to defend themselves. if they have -- if they're armed with those facts, then that's when the conversation really begins. employers also should welcome these new tools that they'll have available so that they can avoid lawsuits because they'll have the statistics to be able to correct pay discrepancies before it ever gets to litigation. >> you know, as valerie mentioned, i'm going to be at the white house later this morning moderating a discussion on equal pay, and tomorrow we're going to bring that conversation to you only on "morning joe." it should be really good. valerie, i'll see you in just a bit. thank you so much. >> thank you, mika. thanks for your interest in this important issue. >> thank you. we'll be right back. account to his merrill edge retirement account. before he opened his first hot chocolate stand calling winter an "underserved season". and before he quit his friend's leaf-raking business for "not offering a 401k." larry knew the importance of preparing for retirement. that's why when the time came he counted on merrill edge to streamline his investing

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up next, jeb bush is considering a run at the white house? but some republican lawmakers are questioning his conservative credentials. are they cheerful enough? that and more when "morning joe" returns. it's not the "confused by rotating categories" card. it's the no-category-gaming, no-look-passing, clear-the-lane-i'm- going-up-strong, backboard-breaking, cash back card. this is the quicksilver cash back card from capital one. unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, every single day. i'll ask again... what's in your wallet? a man who doesn't stand still. but jim has afib, atrial fibrillation,

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potential primary rival for bush if both of them decide to run for president responded. >> there's no doubt that immigrants come to this country because they're seeking a better world, seeking the american dream and seeking a better life for their kids. all of that is positive and beneficial. what isn't positive and beneficial is breaking the law to do so. >> he said it's not a felony. >> well, look, in my view we need to be a nation that welcomes and celebrates legal immigrants. >> senator cruz was also asked about 2016 and whether an establishment candidate would be good for the republican party. >> you know, i do think there are folks in washington who want to pick the party's nominee, and they inevitably want to pick a nominee who they think won't rock the boat. and in my view from the perspective of a republican who believes we need to win and we need to win because the country is on the wrong path, because we're facing enormous fiscal and economic challenges, i think the only way republicans win is to have a candidate who runs as a strong conservative with a

positive, hopeful, optimistic message. that's the path to victory. and i don't think washington elites are going to be very effective picking the nominee. i think it's going to be quite rightly a decision for the grassroots to make. >> is jeb bush a strong conservative, do you think? >> that's a question for the voters to say. >> ted cruz talking to jake tapper there. if you go back to the immigration question, though, it's something we talked about yesterday. it only took a few hours for some conservatives, ted cruz among them, although he was very complimentary i should say of jesh bu jeb bush, i like him a lot just disagree on this immigration issue. >> i think a lot of conservatives who respect jeb just disagree with him. again, for reasons like i said a father from pakistan, a father from ukraine loves their child just as much as a father from mexico who comes to the country illegally to help their child. >> the one thing i didn't understand about his comment yesterday, was he urging a breaking -- was he encouraging

people to violate the law or saying i understand why they do it. >> i don't think he was encouraging, but i think he was saying that -- >> he understands it? >> he understands it and the republican party should embrace it and should embrace aggressive immigration reform. but again it's -- tonally, i'll just say, tonally i think that rang a lot of bells for moderates and some progressives. i think some conservatives looked at it with a big question mark over their head. i know there are conservatives that are also pushing for immigration reform. >> is this a way to test the waters if you're him? is this a way to determine whether or not the party is able to embrace you if activists in iowa and new hampshire -- >> i think so. jeb, he's not wringing his hands but he's not really, he doesn't seem to be all in on this presidential thing. i think he's deciding that he's going to do it if he can do it his way. and as he said, if he can do it joyfully. so if he goes out and makes these statements and gets backlash, then i think that

makes it less likely for him to run. i do want to say, though, i think ted cruz is right on the conservative front and i've said this all along and i said it in my book, that republicans don't do well when they nominate establishment candidates. they don't do well when establishment candidates that are washington moderates, and i've said it time and time again and i said it in my book, you've got to be conservatively ideologically, and, mike, whether you agree with me on that ideological front because people like bob dole, gerald ford, bush 41 after he raised taxes, mitt romney, john mccain, they lose presidential elections. the, quote, reasonable ones lose presidential elections. the ones the media thinks crazy like ronald reagan, they win 49 states. but i think we can all agree with ted cruz here that an establishment candidate in 2016,

what seems to be the safe way forward, probably not the safe way forward if washington thinks it's the right thing to do with congress with a 9% approval rating. >> isn't the split in washington in terms of the republican party and its candidate for president, isn't the split not so much -- ted cruz said candidates picked in d.c. who won't rock the boat. but isn't it candidates selected in washington, people in washington, politicians in washington looking for a winner, not someone who won't rock the boat. their perspective is we have to have someone who can win. they think jeb bush can win. i don't know whether that's going to be the case. we'll see where the fault line cracks just based on the immigration statement he made. how long will this continue. i think if it continues for two, three, four weeks with rand paul jumping in and whacking jeb bush, i think he might pull back a little. we'll find out. >> bush versus clinton, willie, it's -- again, with more americans disgusted with

washington, d.c., than ever before, either party going back 25 years and a rematch of a battle 25 years ago i think is actually taking risks. sometimes doing the most, quote, conservative thing with a small c can be the most dangerous. >> yeah, i think that's probably true. it's not exactly a new day if you're talking about bush versus clinton. but it's nice in practice and it's well and good in theory to say we can't have an establishment candidate, but who is that nonestablishment candidate who also can win. you're saying you don't want an establishment candidate but it's also most important that we win, so who are those people. let's go back to 2012 and look on the stage. if it wasn't mitt romney, who was it? who in that group was going to win? >> herman cain. >> but who was that person? >> if you look at the five or six last presidential races, neither party has nominated an establishment candidate. senator obama was not, it was hillary clinton. bill clinton was not the

establishment candidate. ronald reagan was not the establishment candidate. i would argue jimmy carter was not the establishment candidate. these guys came -- both parties are picking people outside of what we consider the establishment. >> but the republican with the republicans -- >> the people who win are outside the establishment. >> the winners, yeah. >> winning candidates, that's my point, come outside of the establishment. now, the question today is not only do people want to win, i think the country wants the country to work again. so the question i'd have is are we willing to take a bush versus clinton, as much as that's old school and as much as that may be looking backwards in some people's eyes, do young voters today, to your sons view that as something looking backwards or more importantly to regular voters, mainstream voters, say you know what, these guys can get something done. >> mike, how excited would your sons be with a bush v. clinton? >> anything else on? >> would they be excited by rand paul or scott walker or john

kasic -- >> for people that age, 20s, 30s, they would look at the candidates saying which of these candidates scares me the least. that's in their minds, especially with the republican field. once you get past a moderate, and he is a moderate republican, jeb bush, and look at the rest of the field, some of them -- some of the things they say scare people. i mean the underpinnings -- they do, they scare people, some of the things they say. you listen to some of the things they say, it's scary. they don't want government to function. >> some of these other people you mean, right? >> yeah, yeah. >> and that's all i mean, if it's not jeb bush or whoever your establishment candidate is, it's fine to say we don't want that person, bush/clinton doesn't work but who are the other people? who can win? >> well, the question is the republican party. when democrats win, democrats go outside the safe bet. but look, though, since 1988. let's go back 25, 30 years. you had mitt romney, who was nominated, the son of a guy that ran an auto company in michigan.

before him you had george w. bush -- or john mccain, the son of a guy that ran the united states navy. before him you had george w. bush, the son of a president and a vice president and then ambassador to china, ambassador to the u.n. and head of the republican party and before him you had bob dole, who was sort of an exception to the rule but he was washington establishment. before him you had george h.w. bush in '92. >> he may have been the only true washington creature of the group we're talking about because w. ran as an insider, ran as a texan. h.w. was a creature of d.c. >> they're all not only establishment candidates in washington, they're establishment candidates in america. the republican party has been nominating since 1988 with the exception of bob dole guys whose fathers ran the world. and i'm just -- i'm just saying it hasn't done us a lot of good. when we actually -- the last guy that did us a lot of good and

grew the party actually went to eureka college in illinois. there's a reason, because when you mix conservatism and populism or a feel for middle america, that's powerful. it's something that this party hasn't tried in a very long time. >> and he did not scare people. >> well, he scared -- >> ronald reagan. >> go back and see -- were you writing in '76 and '80? >> yeah. >> i would love to see what you wrote. >> i used to write funny stuff. >> everybody called reagan a nut job in '76 and '80. >> i remember writing that he wanted to send arms to central america and i'd write stuff about eventually he'll send hands there. >> he was someone outside of the mainstream. >> he scared the hell out of people like mike barnacle who look back at him fondly with a little glint in his eye. >> what does it say about your republicans that two of your presidents were california republicans.

taking back nixon, obviously reagan. california and texas have produced republican presidents over the last 30 years -- 30 years or so. again, it's hard -- my only point is i think people will be more interested in the country working which is why a bush/dlin redo the country might be willing to accept because they might get a working nation. >> talking about unrest in ukraine and putin, obviously wanting to extend his reach even more. >> people wondered after he went in originally would there be more and it looks like there's beginning to be more. some developing news overseas. russia may make another move into the eastern part of ukraine. pro-russian protesters were driven out of the country's second largest city. just hours earlier the protesters set fires in front of a regional assembly building. police clashed with demonstrators there, about 70 of them were arrested.

pro-russian protesters also seized control of a government building in another city even further into ukraine. they're promising to hold a referendum next month on becoming an independent republic. the demonstrators asked russian president vladimir putin to send soldiers to the area as, quote, peacekeeping forces. however, the white house says there is strong evidence many of those protesters were paid. the events bear a striking resemblance to what unfolded in crimea, prompting a warning from the obama administration. >> if russia moves into eastern ukraine either overtly or covertly this would be a very serious escalation. we call on president putin and his government to cease all efforts to destabilize ukraine and we caution against further military intervention. >> so these protesters that the white house says are paid are now asking for russian troops to come help them. remember, this is the justification for putin last time, we have to help russian-speaking people inside

ukraine. >> they're moving east -- or moving west. and the white house -- what, the white house threatens? or warns putin? with what? with what? >> i'm told yesterday by a couple of people in washington that the biggest fear of this administration is they fear putin's inability to control what has been set in motion here. it could rapidly get out of hand. >> well, it looks like it is. you just wonder if the white house response is going to be any stronger as this moves west. >> what are the options? >> well, i don't know. i mean there are -- there are some very strong options on the table right now. i mean short of military force. the president is going to have to be extraordinarily engaged. if it means he has to fly to germany to send a message and sit with merkel and the rest of the u, they have to let putin know if this continues westward,

he's going to pay a heavy price. you know what, i'll say the president has lots of options. i don't know what he's doing behind closed doors, but i can say i know this wouldn't be happening if george h.w. bush wouldn't be sending james baker over to germany to take care of things. i'm sorry, i don't mean to sound overly simplistic, but vladimir putin has absolutely no fear of a strong united states taking a leadership role and actually hurting him, hitting him where it hurts. >> do you think that a military option has to be exercised at some level based on your comments to recapture, regain the sense that we are strong or even in the eyes of putin that is. >> a military option? >> right. does something have to be done more forceful than diplomacy? >> no. >> to stop what we were talking about? >> no. we don't need a military option, we need strong economic

sanctions. we can choke -- we can choke russia off. they're a glorified gas station. i mean even when they were the soviet union, i had a law professor that went over there and came back. i said what was it like? he said they're a third world country with a lot of nuclear weapons. we can choke them off, but it requires leadership and it requires an american president that's going to go over to europe and forcefully act and get germans and the british and others that have an economic stake in russia to stand shoulder to shoulder with us. >> i tend to agree with you but what if putin is not controlling this. >> that's their fear. >> if what you're saying is right, how do you reconcile the two points. if putin can't stop this, even with economic sanctions, how does that translate into a different posture? >> i think from what i'm told if the united states over a period of a very few days cut off russian banks' ability to deal with western banks. >> gotcha. >> putin would, i think, become very actively involved in what's

going on in the ground in the ukraine immediately. the other aspect of it is what if ukraine were fast forwarded membership into nato? coming up on "morning joe" she's a self-proclaimed nonbeliever who was searching for truth in the universe, so what did she find? author barbara ehrenreich is hire. plus claire mccaskill hosts mike barnacle for the st. louis cardinals' home opener. coming up, the top stories in the politico playbook. but here's a look at the forecast. >> what do i do to be mike's intern? what a career. good morning, everyone. we've got rain heading through the northeast that soaked area this morning. i think the afternoon will be a lot better as the rain moves out. it hasn't affected the airports too much, only a 15-minute delay at philadelphia and so far so good up around boston. that's the only area that has heavy rain left and downpours, maybe even a rumble of thunder or two as this moves through over the next hour. things look a lot better by noon

and probably cleared out completely by late afternoon. florida, different story. thunderstorms are rolling into central florida and they will be over i-4 here shortly from tampa to orlando, the tail end of your morning rush hour. where do we go from here? i'm happy to say for all the weather people across the country, we finally get a break and so do you. we're not looking at any major storms in the week ahead. finally it looks like spring will kick winter out. the last gasp heading through the great lakes today. the warm out west by thursday spreads all the way across the country. a lot of areas will see lovely spring conditions heading towards the weekend. so the early morning rain exits new england. thunderstorms still with us during the day in florida, but the rest of the country looks fantastic. look at l.a. today, 87 degrees. then by wednesday, even the middle of the country, mid-70s. kansas city, even minneapolis. finally, we'll leave you with a shot of washington, d.c. after a gloomy morning, things will look much better this

afternoon and this weekend is the peak of the cherry blossoms and the forecast looks like it's going to be at least 60s and gorgeous. enjoy. you probably know xerox as the company that's all about printing. but did you know we also support hospitals using electronic health records for more than 30 million patients? or that our software helps over 20 million smartphone users remotely configure e-mail every month? or how about processing nearly $5 billion in electronic toll payments a year? in fact, today's xerox is working in surprising ways to help companies simplify the way work gets done and life gets lived. with xerox, you're ready for real business.

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it's time to take a look at the morning papers. let's start with the "dallas morning news." new information about the shooting rampage at ft. hood. the u.s. army says it followed a dispute over a request by the gunman to take a leave from the post. officials say ivan lopez got into arguments with fellow soldiers in his unit over the

request. the army is also released the detailed timeline of the shooting spree, which left three people dead and 16 injured. "the new york post" a man from trinidad is facing smuggling charges after authorities found more than seven pounds of cocaine hidden in frozen meat at jfk airport. >> is that against the law now, willie? >> u.s. customs officers flagged the passenger after noticing the unusual packages in his suitcase. officials found a powdery substance which tested positive for cocaine. >> look at that. i am hungry. the "boston globe" a convict looking to gain freedom for a crime he said he didn't commit has the support of an unlikely ally. convicted mobster whitey bulger. he has been behind bars 32 years. his lawyers say he was framed by none other than bulger himself. bulger has written letters from prison trying to help overturn the conviction but bulger has declined to name the real killer. >> there's a credible witness. >> yeah, let him go.

the "times picayune" vance mcallister is apologizing after he was caught kissing a married staffer. the video is dated december 23rd, less than two months after the married louisiana lawmaker won a special election. congressman mcallister's campaign focused on family values. in a statement he admitted to falling short and asked for forgiveness from god, his family and his constituents. >> so it wasn't just a peck on the cheek. also, boy, they have got gn lun good lungs. >> i was giving them the benefit of the doubt and then the tape went on. >> airlines in the u.s. are reporting their second best ratings in the last 20 years. virgin airlines scored the highest rounding out the top five were jet blurks hawaiian

airlines, delta and alaskan air waries. they were judged on arriving on time, the mishandling of bags and consumer satisfaction. united airlines is the worst. you guys remember when this show first started? delta, they would literally not only lose my bags but they would beat me up while i was trying to find them with clubs. >> the two pilots pulled you aside and hit you with blackjacks? >> yes. i've said it before and i'll say it again, delta -- i actually go out of my way to fly delta because delta and jetblue are just great -- >> have you ever flown virgin? >> yeah. >> virgin is great. they have better food. >> virgin is the best but they don't have as many as routes as everybody else. they're incredible. >> you know what i don't like about virgin, first of all, the creepy blue lights and secondly, they do commercials. you're taxiing out, i'm on the

plane, just let me be. you hear this week only at k-mart there's a special for virgin airline passengers and it keeps going and going and going. >> can you do that voice again? >> you know what, it's a long flight to l.a., just relax. >> that's like when they try to sell you the airline credit card. you're in the turbulence and you're going like that. the guy comes on, for a limited time only. they have got you locked in, the plane is going down and they want to sell you a credit card. >> the oxygen mask on and frequent flier miles. >> for me the winners are delta and jetblue. jetblue, man, especially for kids. if you're flying with your kids why would you fly any other airline. that's all i have to say. you'll find out. >> i'm looking forward to that. >> you will find out in a few years. now with us from chicago, who do we have? >> we have the chief white house correspondent for politico, michael mik mike allen. >> good morning, guys. politico is doing an event tomorrow with mayor emanuel.

>> let's talk about what's on the site today. politico magazine has a feature called "harry reid's kryptonite." it notes how much trouble the senate majority leader can get in, quote, when his safety net fails him. this stems from the report that reid used campaign funds to purchase holiday gifts from his granddaughter's jewelry business. mike, take us inside this. >> by the way, leaving her last name off, leaving reid off of there. >> tell us about the piece, mike. >> yes. so last month harry reid agreed to pay back that nearly $17,000 that went to his granddaughter's jewelry company. he said it was just a couple gifts for friends. the search light spirit. but this piece for politico magazine by john ralston, the long-time las vegas reporter, someone who's covered harry reid throughout his career, pulls back the camera and points out that harry reid's weakness, his kryptonite, something that leaves him so vulnerable to charges from his critics, to

youtube moments with the republicans is his relationship with his family. willie, this piece points out that harry reid has a daughter and four sons, all of whom are involved in some way in nevada politics. and that's created problems over the years, questions about whether or not his campaign, his government has been helping them, and these questions go back years, including, you may remember this, when harry reid made another refund to his campaign for a christmas gift to his ritz carlton doorman in d.c. >> so talk about -- i don't -- the underlying story about the daughter. >> granddaughter. >> what exactly did he do? the granddaughter. >> he bought holiday gifts from the campaign, which politicians can do, as you know, they can do all kinds of things through these campaigns, but the way that the payment was listed in the records as you suggested

made it unclear that she was a relative. the fec looked into it. the campaign wouldn't answer for a long time and finally said, well, this was fine, these were some gifts to supporters, but we're going to give the money back. and the point of this piece, harry reid's kryptonite, is this is the one place this relationship with relatives where harry reid has left himself open to all kinds of criticism. just doesn't seem to acknowledge the appearances here. >> mike, also it's bush league and seems to make matters much worse that he tried to hide the fact by keeping her last name off. >> yeah. harry reid is a multimillionaire. he doesn't need his campaign to be paying his tips and gifts. >> i understand him not listing the name of his granddaughter to avoid any link and anything like that, but what in essence is wrong with a harry reid or a jim smith or anybody using campaign

funds, which are legal to use, to buy gifts from a store owned by a relative? >> well, this is for people to make up their minds. they do amazing things with these campaigns, as you know. some politicians will every single day, they'll have a charge to their local starbucks and they say that they're meeting with a donor. really? on the way to work every single day? so there's very loose rules about how these campaigns spend the money. but here he was asked about it not just by the press and by john ralston, who says that harry reid has not spoken to him for years. the best-known politician in the state not speaking to the best-known journalist in the state for years because of perceived slights in ralston's coverage of harry reid's children. >> politico's mike allen, thanks, mike. coming up next, one woman's quest to find truth in the universe. can science and religion really coexist?

barbara aarehrenreich joins us t on "morning joe." and just give them the basics, you know. i got this. [thinking] is it that time? the son picks up the check? [thinking] i'm still working. he's retired. i hope he's saving. i hope he saved enough. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. whether you're just starting your 401(k) or you are ready for retirement, we'll help you get there.

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all right. here with us now, "new york times" best-selling author barbara aarehrenreich.

an absolutely fascinating book, barbara, i can't wait to talk about that. first, i want to go back to 1998 to get your thoughts on some of the current issues at stake today, because you went -- you went out into the country to find out what it was like to live on the minimum wage. you left your home, you took the cheapest lodgings you could find, you accepted whatever job you could get, you moved from florida to maine to minnesota. you worked as a waitress, a hotel maid, a cleaning woman, a nursing home maid and a walmart sales clerk. you lived in trailer parks and crumbling residential motels. given the fact that you've had that experience undercover, what do you make of those on this equal payday who are against raising the minimum wage? >> well, i think their arguments have been found to be not based on much. the argument that there will be

fewer jobs around if we raise minimum wage has just not been born out by the empirical evidence. so to me it's a moral issue. mostly a moral issue. don't tell me a lot of economic gobbledy-gook. i say it is amoral to take a person who's working as hard as he or she can and not give them enough money in wages to even live on. to eat, sleep indoors, et cetera. >> so some economists and people who know much more about finances or the economy than you or me per se is that it hurts the economy and there will be less jobs to go around -- >> well, that's what i'm saying. i'm not impressed with an economy that runs on the exploitation of people. what we're really asking is that very low wage workers, be

philanthropists. here, you do the work, you're not going to get enough to live on, you're just doing it for everybody else. you can't have an economy based on the philanthropy of the poorest. >> you're absolutely right. thomas roberts. >> barbara, you were widely successful with "nickel and dimed" and now we have "living with a wild god." this is based on your experience as an atheist. you were just telling me that you come from generations of atheists so this is baked into your dna. what do you say to people that find great comfort in their religion and your view of that kind of discounts how they feel a connection with spirituality? >> it's true but i should say a little bit about our family history. these were poor people, these were working people, mostly in western montana, mining industry, in the like early 20th, late 19th century. and this story goes that my

father's great grandmother sent for the priest when her own father lay dying. she's a cath rioliccatholic, ir catholic. sent for the priest to give the last rites to her dad. the priest sent back a note saying that will cost you $25, which was unthinkable for them. >> sure. >> and the rest of the story is that two years later, she lay dying herself in childbirth and the priest just showed up to do the last rites. and that she with her last ounce of breath took that crucifix off her chest and threw it across the room. >> as an atheist, have you ever had a spiritual experience? >> i don't like the word "spiritual" for a lot of reasons. >> why? >> it sounds too cozy, it sounds too sweet. >> depends on who says it. >> huh? >> depends on who says it. >> all right. well, if you can say it in a menacing way. >> have you ever had a spiritual

experience? >> that's better. i prefer, even though it's not a great word either, mystical experience. yes. i didn't know what it was when it happened to me, this all happened when i was a teenager. didn't know what to make of it. >> what was it? >> well, that's the trouble with these experiences is that they're -- they're wordless. the only way i can think to put it over the years trying to figure this out was that the world flamed into life. everything was alive. everything was like coming at me all at once. i was pouring out into it and it was ecstatic and it was shattering. both at the same time. >> were you stoned? you said during the '60s. >> no. i was a 17-year-old, very innocent of any mind-alterance.

>> barbara, i wish everyone in the congress saw you talk about the minimum wage. it is a moral issue and it's a disgrace in this country that we make people work below the poverty level for 40 hours of tough labor. you're absolutely right, everybody should see what you said. >> barbara, we're going to have to go but i want to ask you real quickly because i want to get back to the book. science and religion, can it exist in the same sphere? as a devout scientist you are. >> devout scientist, i like that. i think there's tension there. but, you know, that's not the greatest divide in the world. religion is over here. we can throw spirituality into it, the new age stuff, whatever you want. there's a whole wide world of rationalism outside, which includes science. but it includes many debates and things going on in science. >> well, i encourage people to pick up the book, it is called "living with a wild god."

barbara, thank you so much. coming up next, business before the bell with brian sullivan. you're watching "morning joe." don't go anywhere. (vo) you are a business pro. maestro of project management. baron of the build-out. you need a permit... to be this awesome. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. and only national is ranked highest in car rental customer satisfaction by j.d. power. (aaron) purrrfect.

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which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. it's business before the bell with cnbc's brian sullivan. brian, good morning. >> good morning, thomas, thank you very much. a couple of quick stories. number one, watch the stock market. if you haven't been paying attention, you should be. the last couple of sessions have been terrible. in fact the market has been selling off pretty dramatically the last couple of days. in fact facebook, not to pick on facebook, but just one name, down 20% so far this year. windows xp, the 12-year-old operating system, dies today. microsoft no longer going to be offering security patches. by the way, 30% of the world's computers run xp. it's a serious business story. and also speaking of serious, as

in perhaps you can't be, i'm calling this the ming dynasty bubble. an investor in china paid $36 million for a tiny little cup from the ming dynasty. a lot of talk about an art bubble. i tell you what -- >> what is he going to do with it? >> don't drop it. but you know what, it has a chicken on it. worth every dime. don't worry about it. up next, barnicle's baseball tour continues with a behind-the-scenes look at the st. louis cardinals' home opener. and u.s. senator claire mccaskill is your tour guide? how do you pull this off? >> it's great. sir. alright. let's share the news tomorrow. today we failrly busy. tomorrow we're booked solid. we close on the house tomorrow. i want one of these opened up. because tomorow we go live... it's a day full of promise. and often, that day arrives by train.

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♪ >> here we go, are you ready for this? so she is a loyal "morning joe" viewer, we're talking about senator claire mccaskill and is taking a little issue with the "morning joe" folks. the missouri lawmaker invited mike to the cards' home opener to see the best of what st. louis has to offer. take a peek. >> free tickets. ♪ going back to st. louis ♪ going back to st. louis, baby just to be with you ♪

>> do you forget cloture votes and the koch brothers and the polarization of politics when you come here. >> oh, yeah. yeah, i was really lucky. as a young girl my grandfather was a huge cardinals fan and he taught me about the gashouse gang and the dean brothers. i listened to the little transitor in the backyard. >> cardinals won the pennant, the card analysis won the pennant! >> that was the era of the '60s when we had amazing teams and i was a very young girl. >> was it kmox? >> kmox, correct. that was one of the reasons the cardinal fan base is as large as it is, besides the fact we play great baseball, despite what you guys in the northeast think. >> opening day has a certain significance to everyone. what significance does it have to you? >> well, it's the day that everyone kind of celebrates the tradition of being a member of cardinal nation. it's a touchstone. we've had such iconic stars that

have been an integral part of this community and they always come back for opening day. it's a special day that we kind of pay tribute to the past and look forward to another pennant and another ring. >> i tell you what's really refreshing is to talk to a united states senator or a politician, you're both, you're a politician and a united states senator, who isn't a fake fan. the one guy i would pick to pitch the one game that i had to win -- >> bob gibson. >> bob gibson. hey! all right. >> e.r.a. of 1.12 lifetime, huh? how's that? >> i mean you actually know this club, this town, this team, the tradition. this is nice. >> well, and it's hard. you know, i remember when we played the world series, the i-70 world series in '85 between the royals and the cardinals. i remember the governor at the time got a hat that was split down the middle. it's like somebody is trying to

pretend they're both a yankees and a mets fan. i think people who are fans respect the fact that you're a fan. it causes a little friction sometimes when i'm in kansas city, but it is what it is. i love this team, i love what they are to this community, i love what they are to baseball. >> how did you guys do last year? >> by the way, we won the national league pennant. i think it was our 19th time. and we did not win the world series, but as i said to you at the time, mike barnicle, when the cardinals say we'll see you next year, we actually mean it. not a shocking turn of events that joe scarborough said he would be here on opening day and he's not here. i hate to say it but kind of a typical republican. says one thing and does another. ♪ >> that claire mccaskill. anyway, they played the reds, right? >> yeah. >> how did it go? >> good ball game. cardinals won. a real good game. >> and she is a super fan. >> she's a knowledgeable fan, a

legitimate fan. >> all right. so in a few weeks we are taking the show on the road. "morning joe" live from wrigley field celebrating 100 years of baseball in the windy city. that's coming up on wednesday, april 23rd. you don't want to miss it. >> we're coming to you. coming up next, what, if anything, did we learn today.

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welcome back to "morning joe." it's time to talk about what we learned today. mika, what did you learn? >> i learned that i'm on my way to the white house for equal payday and i have probably the best co-host on the face of the earth for dealing with this with me. >> who's that, thomas roberts? >> it's you. >> oh, me! thomas, she said something nice about me. >> you know what you did. >> and say hi to valerie for us. it's a fantastic issue and certainly one that's meant a lot to you for a very long time. we look forward to getting your report tomorrow. mike, what did you learn? >> that was a striking statement that mika just made about you. secondly i learned mika's favorite team, uconn, congratulations to the huskies and hopefully the husky women win tonight against notre dame. >> thomas. >> also on that note, if they do, it will be the second time

in ten years that both the men and the women's uconn teams have walked away with that title, so good luck to them. >> ed. >> i've learned this is an amazing country. we have someone running for the u.s. senate in south carolina who wants south carolina to print its own currency. >> why can't they just pay in pimento cheese. it's good down there. >> that is without a doubt the most delicate currency. what did you learn? >> guys play as a team. i still love that in the ncaa. i love kentucky but uconn played as a team. >> i'm going for uconn tonight. we love geno and so we'll see what happens. if it's way too early, mika, what time is it? >> it's time for "morning joe." but it's time now for "the daily rundown" with chuck todd. what does chuck stand for? have a great day, everybody. clashes again in ukraine with pro-russian protesters calling for russian troops to help them. the world wonders whether