believes it's wrong. monica says it's golf digest. definitely progolfer. top five females with top five males as females with top males and caddies. and another one, i think it's bringing attention to ladies that golf wouldn't normally have. >> and did you see the spoof on the "golf digest" cover. one of the golfing buddies to put on the outfit. that wraps it up. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ talking about a sweet season on my mind ♪ ♪ stewart, taking the baseline. leading in. over the top. stewart to the other side for two. it's another personal ending for uconn. the 2014 national champions champion, it's high time. >> it means we've done something that no one else has ever done.

you're flattered. you're grateful. you're all the things that, you know, come with this kind of accomplishment. of course, but that's -- that's not the driving force. that's not what motivates us. at connecticut. >> good morning. it is wednesday, april 9th. welcome to "morning joe." >> how about geno, huh? geno's the best. >> that guy is unbelievable. he just keeps winning and withing and winning. >> and he makes pizza rolls. >> huh? >> okay. geno, we'll be talking about geno. don't let it distract you. it's kind of a shiny obstacle. you think it's a coin. >> oh, my goodness. look at that. yes, exactly. >> the geno man. it's unbelievable. uconn, the kings and queens of basketball. >> when i was a reporter in "consider the. i covered the women a lot. i got to know geno, he's a good

man. you know why he's makes a great team. my daughter is a great track coach. a coach can be a father figure. geno auriemma. must be heaven. >> ncaa. >> it's called ncaa, and you say it proudly. >> so that's his ninth actual title. puts him in the conversation. all of those names that you talked about. they're just a great basketball team. notre dame was perceived to be perhaps the best team. and they blew them off the court. they won by 20 points, uconn did. after the game, the notre dame coach who has no love for geno auriemma and vice versa said we have no chance. >> mika, also, speaking of women, big event at the white house. >> yes. >> you were there along with

valerie. and a lot of other people. and of course, the president. tell us -- >> so this is the east room of the white house. and it was sort of like a church revival. i'm telling you, every time the president made a comment about why women should be paid equally to men. equal pay for equal work, talking about the same jobs. you'd hear like okay. clapping almost like praise jesus, it was fun. >> and a little known fact, he told you when he kissed you on the cheek, he whispered ditch that guy with the big nose next to you. i don't know that he had that much time to say that to you. >> he tried that. look, you're still here. >> i'm still here. at least for a little bit. >> no, it was a great event. and it's teeing up what's going on on capitol hill. he signed to two executive orders yesterday which play into this. the senate is set to take up the paycheck fairness act today. part of the push between democrats to address the gap

between wages of men and women. it would allow workers to compare salaries without the threat of retaliation. retaliation that would compel companies to explain pay disparities between men and women and allow workers who allege discrimination to seek damages. yesterday, the president stwiend executive actions designed at creating greater transparency for the wages of federal contractors amid what the white house says is say key first step. the president used the occasion to contrast his stance on republicans on this. >> some commentators are out there saying that the pay gap doesn't even exist. they say it's a myth. but it's not a myth. it's math. you can look at the paychecks. you can look at the stubs. this isn't just about treating women fairly. this is about republicans seepingly opposing any efforts to even the playing field for working families. i don't know why you would resist the idea that women should be paid the same as men.

and then deny that it that's not always happening out there. if republicans in congress want to prove me wrong, if they want to show that they in fact do care about women being paid the same as men, then show me. they can start tomorrow. they can join us in this, the 21st century, and vote yes on the paycheck fairness act. oh, yes. >> republicans were pushing back, calling the legislation a political stunt. in an election year. noting that it's already illegal to discriminate on the basis of gender. >> many ladies i know feel like they're being used as pawns and find it condescending that democrats are trying to use this issue as a political distraction. >> republicans support equal pay for equal work. it's probably better for us to sit down and see how we can make sure that the law is being

properly implemented, rather than play politics with this. >> i would urge us to stop politicizing women. and let's start focusing on those policies that are actually going to help women and everyone in this country. >> so mika, eric cantor says, which i believe is, equal pay, for equal work. don't most americans agree with that? >> i think most americans believe in that. he might believe what he believes but the others seemed like hostage video. the truth is is pay discrimination exists. they know it. and to be put out there like that seems kind of sad at this moment. >> well, let's talk about the issue here. >> sure. >> again, you're talking about -- >> politics. >> about the women, and they can speak for themselves quite well, thank you. so i'm asking, just about the issue, equal pay for equal work. i think everybody agrees with that.

so i'm asking -- >> okay, there are -- >> -- i'm not being difficult here. why question is, why was it necessary for the president to sign that bill yesterday, if it's already the law of the land that you can't discriminate against women? >> exactly. equal pay for equal work. >> right. >> and there's a law against it, except the law doesn't work because you can't prove it. you can't prove it unless you're lilly ledbetter and someone by mistake gives you pay stubs. unless you're me and you have a co-host and tells me what you make and will go back in there and back me like you did. and like those who don't have a progressive boss or a great group to work with, and a man who can help with the problem who will actually be transparent. we need transparency. because, ougs, the law exists for women to take legal action. nicole, would you like to be a

woman taking legal action against her company? >> of course not. the republican problem on this issue is we're having the wrong fight. we're in a defensive crouch, we're quibbling about what the definition of discrimination is. what we should be talking about is our plan to level the playing field. because whether it boils down to a factcheck.org mission or not, most women feel underpaid and underappreciated and overstrapped in the workplace. >> and, by the way, i mean, let's just talk as to the republicans at the table who talk about having it, i'm still trying to figure out what willie is. >> he's -- >> a marxist or a -- >> no. >> so, but, anyway, i will say, i'm not saying this because mika's next to me. this seems like one of these fights where you go, ahh, come on guys. i will say, i also as a

republican sort of flinched every time barack obama kept saying at this event that should be a unifying event, republican, republican, republicans. >> right. he made it very political. >> he made it very political which makes republicans think, oh, this really isn't about women. this is about 2014 and the gender gap and this, quote, war on women. bogus charge. >> and presume that it is. presume that president obama is doing this for politics. >> should what should republicans do? >> they should have the fight on ground that is more friendly to republicans. what republicans have historically championed is an agenda for small business owners. the majority of small business owners in this country to make up the majority of employers hiring new employees in this country are women. so the republicans have a natural alignment with women issues if they can make themselves champions of the small business owner and really understand what they need. republicans also need to understand to get out of that defensive crouch.

>> it is is a defensive crouch. when mika was talking about what the bill was about and i was limping to the president on his attacks on republicans, kind of what's wrong with transparency, because, you know, nobody's saying -- everybody needs to get paid the same. but if i'm working in one cubicle and somebody is working in another cubicle and i'm getting paid less as a matter of math because of my gender, that's obviously a serious issue. >> it is. and i don't think it's political. >> of course, it's political -- it's a serious issue. by the way, of course what barack obama did yesterday is political. and what is wrong with that. he's basically setting up for 2014 and it's attached to the minimum wage. it's attached to immigration. democratic party is the inclusive party. and they are still trying to coin the republican party was the party of mitt romney. a party of those guys. a party of 1%. >> the binder is full of women. >> it's arguably. >> and arguable that this is a

political -- >> it's an argue that it's a position that nobody can argue with. and it's an argument that it's a political move at the same time also. and it's a win-win for them. and, nicole, to your point, it keeps the republicans in a, i think the word you used, a crouch. and i said this the other day. you can even start to inch obamacare into that whole pot. 9 million people uninsured. we're for the every man and they are not. >> you know, great generals understand what wars to fight and what wars to avoid. you know, the greatest general wins the war without firing a single shot. this is a battle, i would say, so long as they're not going in and telling employers you must pay everybody the same no matter what. if it's about transparency, this is an argument that, you know, republicans need to tread lightly on. >> so let me ask a question about politics. or first say something. i understand the political benefit of going after this. and i don't think there's

anything wrong with that at all. >> of course not. >> especially since it was the first thing the president did when they got back into office in 2009. he has a record on this. it's nod random. >> right. >> he also has a number -- large number of women working there. the problems within the white house with pay that have been uncovered so vehemently by republicans shows just how deep the problem is. so, in a way, this legislation needs to pass. it probably won't, given the way the republicans are facing it it right now. here's the thing, it's political, except, nicole, it would actually work for women. it would actually be good for women. so it's not just a shallow, self-serving political move, it's something that would make this country better. >> i think a lot of people, though, that champion a cause for political purposes believe in a cause. >> exactly. >> for health kare, it's entirely political, i have to give the president the benefit of the doubt and presume he thought that was good for the country. anything that's political i think is usually rooted in a

politician belief that it's good for this country. >> except for his fact, if this like the most important thing, if this is a very important thing for the president. and if any of us are in the president's position and we want this bill to be passed so it can be signed, you don't do that by having a pep rally at church revivals you're bashing the other side that controls the house of representatives and will determine if that passes through the house or not. you try to co-op. the first thing you do political, you try to -- >> he's setting it up like that. he knows that. >> he knows that. and, see, this is the attitude at the white house that drives me absolutely crazy. we know they're not going to support us. so let's not bend over backwards to try to make it happen. and let's have a pep rally. if he knows it's not going to pass and what you've just admitteds it was nothing but a political republic rally yesterday. >> it's a smart, offensive

political move. unfortunately, i could turn around the other way, the fact that the house would not sign off on it, we around this table know that, kind of a sad statement, if you take that as a fait accompli, if you're the president, you do what he did. i think it is politics. >> we've got juli, i don't me of to cut you off. we haven't heard from willie or julie. somebody that's been in business. i've been in business, i've been in media i've been in politics. i've been in law. i've coached football. i've written musicals. i've done a lot of things. and in every one of these situations i have seen men in superior position. i saw my mom work, i saw my aunt work. >> harder than anyone else. >> harder. whether you're talking about businesses or southern baptist churches or whether you're talking about charity organization, whatever you're talking about, you know where i'm going here. in most businesses anybody out there that says women get equal

pay right now and get equal treatment right now who run the majority of companies has never lived in the real world. as no idea how business runs, how media runs, how college courses run, anything. >> 10 of my 12 senior partners are women. that's why we're so successful. the issue is not even equal pay, it's equal job status. republicans argue against it it's not apples to apples. just further argue -- >> they can't do it because they have nobody in leadership. >> 5% of the ceos. that's the real problem. it's not that it's apples and apples. >> they fail on that, too. >> that's a difficult gray area. how do you prove that a woman was not promoted. you can look at pay and say that's not fair. how do you prove that a woman was not promoted because of her gender. that's a very difficult thing for a politician to impose on a company. i think we have to look at the

residence why the pay is not equal, the 77 cents to $1 has been debunked over and over again. >> it's worse, actually. >> that number is for median full-time work. if you want the pay fob equal on a median basis, you have to look at what kind of jobs women are entering, what kind of fields they go into. that doesn't mean there isn't discrimination. there is. you you have to be honest with it. >> more women coming out of college, women are superior, the more progressive businesses, advertising, have already gotten there. and the free market system is going to fix this over the next generation. >> do you agree there are more women out there and they are far superior, julie pace? >> well, there are a lot of superior women out there, i think in media. there are a lot of great women who work at the white house. i think this is a really complicated debate because it's not just about equal pay for equal work. as we've been talking about. when you line up women who are

doing the same job as men, you can find a lot of examples where they are getting the same pay but can women get into that job? there was a lot of focus yesterday on something interesting at the white house which was the front row of the white house briefing room during the daily briefing with jay carney. there are seven news organizations that sit in that front row. my news organization is the only one that had a woman in the chair yesterday. so even though women are making a lot of gains, when you look at senior level positions there are just anecdotal examples all around us every day where you see that it's not quite equal. >> right. >> julie, just as someone who covers the white house just tactically that we've been talking about, what is the thinking sort of behind the approach that the president took yesterday to be pretty partisan in his attacks against republicans. he knows it's not going to pass. so what's the end game here? >> sure. well, this is one of those instances where you have a policy that the president believes in that the white house also sees as smart politics.

they know that the bill is likely not to pass in the senate. it is one of those chicken and egg things, though, right? you have the president sort of assuming at the start that a bill is not going to paso he really calls out republicans. tries to draw a stark contrast for the political victory there. then republicans can say, well, how can we work with someone who is so partisan? obviously, you know, the republicans are using that as their own political message but you do see the white house saying basically, if we can't get legislation through, we're at least going to try to exploit this for a political victory. >> okay. >> so, any rate, a big event yesterday again? >> yes, it was lovely. >> i actually took off my media hat. i met lilly ledbetter who is awesome. >> tell me about it. >> earlier before the event, we did a round table in the executive office building with lily. the woman next to her, her name is amanda. she waits tables at night.

she goes to school. she has an incredible story of trying to fix her situation of equal pay and discrimination in the workplace. they're stories when you hear them a little bit later, you'll understand why this was at least to this church revival of a room, 300 women really excited about what was happening. this conversation will prove it. >> it really is exciting. and mike was near the president. and the president making it more partisan than it should have been. my mother a driving influence in my life. i'm kind of like donny, people that ran my camp, i had women run my campaign. i had women for the most part run my congressional office. i always stand if you want people to stand around and talk about what should be done, hire a man. if you want people to get stuff done, hire a woman. you know that, too. this is generalization, women are task-driven.

egos. we all have egos. willie doesn't. you and i have big evening goes. women have an ability to get egos out of the way and get things done. >> you spend more time with men, how big is the office, how big is this -- >> i think what the math you just did means we should be paid more. >> yes, phil, mika might need to be paid more. coming up on "morning joe," "the new york times" jill abramson and al sharpton. major news developing in ukraine. >> did you see john kerry and mccain go at it yesterday? >> yes, i did. >> this time, it's personal. >> the top stories in the "political playbook." first, bill karins. >> finally, guys, spring is here, coast to coast. what a beautiful forecast today and right through the weekend. almost the entire nation. today, just a perfect day, nice, chilly morning. light jacket needed.

you'll carry it home this afternoon. 65 in d.c. 53 in boston. so it's a little cooler in northern new england. but i've got a good warmup coming also. as far as the forecast, new york city, a slight chance of showers not a big deal. the weekend clears out to 70 by sunday. this is the best stretch of weather we've had in a long time. that goes for d.c., too, where the cherry blossoms will be peeking in the days ahead. this will be the best time to view them. look at sunday, chance to being in mid to upper 70s. the rest of the country, same story. all the warm east that's moving through is heading east. death valley, the first to reach 100. and today in phoenix, 97 degrees. i think you get the picture. this is a nice quiet stretch we're going to see into the weekend with beautiful spring conditions that we all deserve. "morning joe" when we come right back.

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hi, are we still on for tomorrow? tomorrow. quick look at the weather. nice day, beautiful tomorrow. tomorrow is full of promise. we can come back tomorrrow. and we promise to keep it that way. driven to preserve the environment, csx moves a ton of freight nearly 450 miles on one gallon of fuel. what a day. can't wait til tomorrow.

♪ time to take a look at the "morning papers. "the sydney morning herald the black box from the missing malaysia data are now in bonus time as crews race against the clock to find the wreckage of flight 370. yesterday, two more pings were detected off the coast of australia. officials say it brings them closer than ever to visually finding the location of the plane and further to reduce the size of the search. and monroe star. caught on camera kissing a staffer, asking for fbi to investigate who leaked video. this appears to show the congressman and woman together. the local pastor is accusing calling it a conspiracy to bring the congressman down.

the office manager denies the accusations. the los angeles times, the number of stay-at-home moms is rising. 29% of women stayed at home with their kids up from 12% in 1990 mine. the vast majority of moms said they chose to stay in the home. 6% couldn't find a job. >> isn't that fascinating? >> that's amazing. >> what do you think is driving that? >> a lot of things we should talk about in the are the roundtable." >> the most interesting nan the world turns 51 today. what are we doing? what are we doing? [ happy birthday to you ♪ happy birthday to you >> there's a cake. bring it over here. we got a cake for you. ♪

>> ahh -- oh! oh! >> oh, my gosh. >> wow. quite a birthday. oh, my lord. >> i do like, joe that you read halfway through the paper. >> right. ♪ happy birthday to you ♪ happy birthday to you ♪ happy birthday dear joe happy birthday to you ♪ >> all right. >> oh, my gosh. >> happy birthday! [ applause ] >> this is your definition of a quiet birthday? >> yes, i wanted to do a little something for you. >> wow. >> unmask yourself there. >> oh!

>> hey, i'm not surprised. louis. okay. >> give joe a big hug. >> yeah. >> this is nice. i can't wait for cake. >> 66 never looked so good, joe. >> thank you, will. and the dancing bear to politico. >> now, the chief white house correspondent is mike allen. he's got a look at the "playbook." good morning, mike. >> good morning, willie. i've got my noisemaker but no cake. >> we've got some, mike. we'll save you some in the freezer. tell me about it. politico has a profile up. tell me about it. >> yeah, we're launching a service, campaign pro for people

who follow the permanent campaign. the first feature is about shawn eldridge, one of the most interesting house races in the country. this is the husband of the facebook founder chris hughes up in the catskills/hudson valley area of new york, challenging a republican in a swing district. it has a republican congressman that obama carried it. and what's fascinating is how shawn eldridge is going about running. he's 27, and he started a venture capital firm up there, hudson valley ventures. and now is investing in the community. so he's creating jacques us there. with his firm. and then goes out and uses that as part of his campaign platform. so it's a new way to get to know the community. he has is invested in big time polling, public relations firms. so testing the limits of how much you can spend in one house race. >> and i love how you guys put it in the piece, sean eldridge

is making all of that look quaint. talking about traditional campaigning, putting up 30-second ad, and raising money. he doesn't have to raise a lot of money, given that his husband is chris hughes, facebook founder. what are his prospects? >> we have a 27-year-old running against a 49-year-old incumbent, chris gibson, who tries to dismiss him as a nice young man who doesn't know much about the district. but the challenge for sean old driven is how do you break through this big money spending and get to know the district? how do you get people there to know you as a person? he puts a lot of photos up on facebook which won't surprise you. but the local reporters told our alex eisenstadt that there does sn a lot of interaction. in the midterps in 2016, now do the politics adapt to social age

and keep in touch. >> i imagine he's in touch with the social age given his family. at an interesting picture of sean eldridge up on politico right now. mike allen. thank you. the matchup with the nets with lebron james came down to the final seconds, and you won't believe how it ended. "morning joe" sports is next. ♪ happy birth to you (meow mix jingle) right on cue.

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♪ all right. welcome back to "morning joe." time for some sports. >> great. >> fantastic. >> yeah, as we mentioned a battle of undefeated going head to head for the national title last night. notre dame against uche kron and nashville. irish at least early on kept it competitive but it didn't last long. cutting the lead to five. uconn just too much on the inside. >> amazing. >> rebound putback foul. huskies in control. they win 79-58. the game was not close. their ninth national championship, the most by any school. how about this stat, geno

auriemma is 9-0. if he gets to the game, he wins it. the huskies finish a perfect 40-0. the fans up in storrs, connecticut, for a second consecutive night celebrating. >> i love those fans. >> you know, willie, those fans are absolutely crazy. >> yeah. >> absolutely crazy. after the game, what happened? >> a local reporter of wsb caught up with excited fans. >> reporter: almost every husk can fan can till what to do to fit in. >> you need a hat. >> navy blue. >> navy blue. >> you need a dog on you somewhere. >> reporter: what can i do to look like a fan? >> look like us, we could be triplets. >> reporter: how about a dog, would that look good? >> how about a big "u" on your chest. >> reporter: hi, my name is mika. stale start you off basic with a

sweater shirt and maybe a hat. like this? like that? yeah! these guys look die hard. >> ahh! >> reporter: that's kind of scary. >> and then follow us, you can do that! >> reporter: okay. die hard may be an understatement. this unruly crowd has its own language. >> defense! >> reporter: but perhaps we need a little help mere. you condo that! >> holy cow. 1995, that was. >> reporter: oh, that hair. >> oh, my goodness. almost 20 years ago. that hair went on forever. that was awesome. >> i always wanted to be farrah fawcett. >> well, you sure -- were there because -- >> and the blousy jean shirt. awesome. fantastic. >> fans are better these days. >> the '90s were tough. >> yeah. >> people talk about the '70s. >> '90s were good.

madonna. the mom jeans. >> yeah. you really are comfortable. >> the bear love there. >> so, willie, what's going on, willie? >> wow, wow. >> can you even talk? >> the heat. the heat. >> there's a lot of heat. >> the heat are the only team unbeaten this season. the brooklyn nets. mason to shaun livingston, he throws it down. fourth quarter, this is to lebron for the dunk. he had hey one-point lead. this one came down to the final seconds, you figure lebron's going to finish for the win. let's watch what happened. >> it's close. what a play by the rookie. >> what's that little noise? >> the rookie mason plumlee with a block of lebron james' dunk.

he's watching the replay, he thought it was a foul. how about the nets with a season sweep of the miami heat? >> i'll tell you about the heat. coming up next, executive editor of "the new york times" jill abramson we're going to clean this up here. jill, we apologize, you deserve better. >> oh, jill's here? are you serious? ♪

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"the new york times," jill ache brapson. jill, great to have you. >> great to be back here. >> this is always one of the things we always come back to in terms of how news moves for the future. but you have new plans for "the new york times" digitally? >> we do. we just introduced two new products. one is good to go, great news app. with i.t., it's been designed for mobile smartphone use. and "the new york times" editors pick the most important stories, we blog them down for people who just want to swipe through. >> and know what's going on. >> we're also giving a second stream that's the most interesting other material from all across the web. it's fantastic. it's getting great buzz. >> and nyt now, and the second stream, the times premiere. >> that's radio. >> can i download this today? >> you can.

yes. you can download and pay, birthday boy. >> i will. with that content, you can check it out. i have had the same -- i think from day one, i have had the same "times" subscription. so this is exciting. so literally for team in a hurry because i certainly have it on all my devices. but for people in a hurry if they're running to the subway and they're not going to have a lot of time to read, go nytgo. >> now. >> and it boils it down to a faster version. >> but still editored by it's in editors not just an algorithm. >> right. >> and there's a smart head and smart thinking behind what stories we're going to have presented to you at any given time. >> i like it. >> so let me ask one other quick question, how is the battle going? as far as the digital battle

going? we hear publishers complaining all the time about the fact that, you know, you can get eyes but it's hard to get advertising revenue. >> it is. but what we have found, the "times" has a very healthy subscription revenue which has helped to make up from the challenging advertising atmosphere. and that's true. but people -- if you have a high-quality product. and "the new york times" is the highest quality news if i do dare to say that. >> i would hope that you would say that as the editor -- >> but we have over 750,000 digital subscribers who are paying because they value our news product what. >> can i ask you one other quick question -- >> sure. >> -- i'm as naturfascinated by. i know during the election it was nate silver when he had his stuff going on there. who's the top eye-getter, who gets the most clicks in "the new york times"?

>> still, probably our opinionist, mark voss and gloria friedman. they drive it. a news story will drive our audience. >> like anything mark leibovich writes -- >> well. >> trying to help my friend. >> mark is fantastic. you know, has a great eye for the panorama of washington. >> that's right. >> there's no one better. no one better. >> oh, my god. okay. i'm moving on quickly. republicans are responding to jeb bush's recent comments on immigration, did you see those? where he's adjusted undocumented workers into america illegally as an act of love. well, here's is charles cat hammer's take on that. >> you know that statement about illegal immigrants being an act of love is kind of bizarre.

i grant him the complete honesty on that. he's had that kind of approach. but that's leading with your chin. there's a question if it were just one person or your opinion about it, one family who jumbled the fence, it wouldn't be a national issue but it's 11 million. and then it becomes a national issue. an issue of sovereignty. and the president has to make a statement that an elementary principle of sovereignty is we control who comes into the country. >> maureen dodd writes for "the new york times." jeb in the vortex. some of those close to jeb say he's serious about running and bringing back a civil tone to republican politics. others say he needs to act as though he's running to keep his speaking fees high and options open. rush limbaugh thinks questionable's "act of love" comment was a gambit to tick off the tea party and get the conservative backlash to him out of the way. jeb thinks republicans have lost their way. he may soon learn that a lot of conservatives think they have

found their way. and it's not the joyful, loving government can be a force for a good way. it's the mean, cruel, gut the government way. when this crowd thinks of a thousand points of light, they're thinking of torches as they march toward the capitol." >> okay. i'll go to sleep. >> no, you can't sleep. and that's why she draws a lot of eyes. >> she's provocative and has a brilliant take on just about everything. >> but i think, jeb -- julie pace, what's your take. maybe it's my world view. but i think the republicans could use some -- >> i agree. >> heart. >> the charles krauthammer comments were just the beginning of what jeb would face if he does choose to run based on his comments on immigration. they were comments that harkened back to things we heard from his brother, his compassionate conservatism. and it's a line of thinking that

republicans think. a lot of republicans in the establishment wing of the party think would be good for a general election message. you know, the question is always whether that plays well when you're talking to voters in the primary. and for jeb, the question is going to be, you know, does he want to go through -- if he really believes in these core principles, does he want to go through the wringer of the primary and be faced with the criticism day after day. and be pushed by people in the party to make back off of those statements? >> joer it's interesting, to julie's point, conventional wisdom can't play in the primary. obviously small for general election. but you've said, hey, look, i've run for office and i have gone out and said the things that couldn't be said. >> yeah. >> but if you do it with conviction and you do it with heart that i believe primary voters in iowa and new hampshire can have their eye on the general election and saying, you

know what, i disagree with what he's saying but i love the guy. >> it's the 90 miles an hour concept. i would say if you go 90 miles an hour in politics, nobody stops you. you look at george bush -- a lot of people forget george w. supported self-weapons ban. he supported background check. he was moderate on immigration than other people. he did it unapologetically. i mentioned this yesterday. there's something about jeb, almost jon huntsman like, sort of this heavy burden. it's almost like the republican party is a weight on his shoulders, whereas, george w. had no problem finding himself as a conservative. and saying being a conservative means gun locks. i'm not just focusing on gun control here but i'm using that as the most extreme case. it's all how you present it to the primary voters. >> i think you have to factor in the fact that jeb if he decides to run is running at a different time where his calculation, as

difficult a road as he might have to the nomination with his position on immigration reform, that in a general election, in order to win, he is appealing to, you know, segments of the voting puck that are very important now and more important even than they were when his brother was running. >> and things have changed a lot since the first bush was president of the united states. i turned 51 today. i was -- >> baby. >> i was 17 or 18 when his father first walked into the white house. >> wow. >> as bill kristol said, it's going to be harder to say please elect me, i'm the third bush. if you're running and saying please elect me i'm the first one. >> even w., in 2000, i remember the speech he gave. he talked about the soft bigotry of low expectations. it was such a memorable line of his acceptance speech.

some of what jeb is saying is an echo actually of the compassionate conservative that brother used when he was at the national arena. >> and it's important, when you talk about the voters of jeb's talking to, when we talk about immigration reform, his brother got 44%, according to exit polls of hispanic voters. in 2000, romney got 27%. john mccain only got a couple points more. republicans don't win national elections getting 27%. >> along those lines what would happen to a republican saying playing on the heel hatred of barack obama and potential real hatred of hillary clinton, i feel strongly about this, we're not going to get the presidency unless you have a candidate that speaks this way. that's a fact. that's an arithmetic fact.

can't voters understand that? >> hey, listen, a lot of people are judging the entire republican party, based on republican candidates over the past several years. it's not like mitt romney was a flaming white wingnut. or john mccain was a flaming white wingnut. or george -- the fact is, we've had some, just say it, some candidates that were just -- barack obama was a much better politics in '08. >> for the reasons we're talking about. all right. jill abramson, thank you. congratulations on your digital efforts. >> i can't wait to download it. and you came on a strange day with dancing bear. still ahead, how to address the gender pay gap. we're going to show you my conversation with some of the leading voices on that issue later on in the show. "morning joe" will be back. ♪ [ banker ] sydney needed some financial guidance

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coming up, al sharpton and chuck todd standing by. >> reverend, anything going on? >> everything's cool -- oh, it's joe's birthday! >> oh, that's what's going on! all right. more "morning joe" in just a little bit. ♪ this is karen and jeremiah. they don't know it yet, but they're gonna fall in love,

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♪ the uconn huskies beat the kentucky wildcats to win the men's basketball tournaments. not only are they ncaa champs according to fox hughes anchor heather childress they received another prestigious honor too. >> the huskies are the naacp national champs. >> wow! >> welcome back to "morning joe." you're with us now, the host of

msnbc "politics nation." reverend al sharpton, absolutely nothing going on in his life these day. chief white house correspondent host of the "the daily rundown" chuck todd. chuck, your birthday yesterday. >> and yours is today. >> i couldn't figure out it yours is the day before me or after me. >> all right. reverend, i noticed yesterday, you're like in other newspapers because you're the good guy. and i noticed something about you. >> right. >> from 20 years ago, like we changed -- >> yeah. >> you're so well coifed now, everything is all tailored and everything. >> yeah, a little different. >> a crazy day for you now. >> what's crazy is that we've been saying the last several years that we were kids to cooperate against gun violence, other things. national action, with my group

which stops that. and they go back 30 years and say i helped the government against guys that were in the music industry mobsters who threatened me. i mean -- >> is that a bad thing? >> that's what i want to know. i think these guys so wedded to whatever and stuck in time that they don't understand. >> so, from what i understand, you were helping artists out. and they weren't getting paid what they deserved to be paid. and you tried to get them more money than you were threatened. >> right. >> and i went to guys who were in the federal government who had tried to ensnare us in the whole boxing scheme and said to them, we've been threatened. nobody denies those guys. no one denies the fact, they're not thinking he was motivated by something else. whatever the motive, you're talking about a mob controlling

an industry. >> right, right. >> and we're trying to get the mob out. so do you -- >> i did to the day. but the industry's changed a lot. we were succeed in some of that. but they -- in some intangible ways, maybe. but i think that the real motto of the story as i start my conviction today and eric holder this weekend, is that i can say to kids, do the right thing. if somebody comes after you, if somebody's doing guns or somebody's doing drugs you're not a snitch to talk about it. you're not their partner. partners snitch on each other. you're their victim. >> how many times do we hear stories of young kids getting shot. >> right. >> or elderly people or anybody getting shot or beaten. and there's this cold of this, quote, code of silence. >> that's right. >> i think what you did is a great example. but the code is for those in the code. i'm a preacher.

i'm not a gangster. >> exactly. and what i'm saying is, it's a great example to people, i think. so, anyway, as we got that, we got that taken care of. >> reverend al, it's good to have you here. >> it's great to have you here. you're everywhere, actually. >> i saw you at the white house. congratulations. on the issue, you've been in the white house many times. >> it was such a pleasure. >> and i know you brought something back from the president for joe's birthday. >> i did. >> he told me to give you a kiss. >> yeah, that's okay. >> he said give joe a kiss for me. >> yeah, i'm sure he said that. there's a new quinnipiac poll out -- >> do you want me to go to the poll. this morning, the poll shows that governor chris christie's job approval rate has dropped to 49% among voters in new jersey. that's down six points in january. it's and a 25-point drop from

february of the last year. right now, 44% disapprove of the job he's doing in office. meanwhile, 57% of garden state voters say governor christie would not make it as president. 35% believe he would. chuck, help us here. >> chris christie is the home power. >> i'll give you that. >> with all the frpress, i woul 49% in a heartbeat. >> in these days, anybody would take that. absolutely. >> after all of that press and all of the investigation, you give me basically 50% approval rating, i'm doing a dance in trenton. >> in this environment. 3. >> we're in a holding pattern. when the investigation comes out, we'll know if chris christie is running for president or whether he can make it or not. >> there is no other way to do it, right? there is no magical thick elixir. govern, hope that people say --

it's basically the bill clinton model. in '98-and '99, which is let everybody else beat the living daylight, out of you and govern. and eventually, if the people like how you're governing, they'll forgive you. by the way, if they don't, then they won't forgive you. >> so in the category of what you're saying, what would you make of him doing roasts? because here's an exchange between joy -- >> i wouldn't be doing that stuff right now. >> okay. joy hey bar, chris christie at an event, take a look. >> let me take a moment to thank governor christie for hosting this event. it was very brave of him, he's had a very few tough, tough, tough -- sir -- some tough weeks -- don't look at me like that, you're scaring me. don't bully me. don't bully me. get up here at the microphone, instead of being such a coward. >> at least i don't get paid for

this. >> well, they paid you to do this. >> i'm asking the same thing about you. >> let me put it to you this way in a way used appreciate it, you're toast, okay? >> i'm sure -- do you guys think -- >> i don't have a problem with it. i just think that that's -- if the ultimate goal is to get back into the national presidential conversation -- >> right. >> -- i'd just leave that stuff aside right now. i'd be leaving it aside. >> for a former new jersey governor -- >> he was asked to go and honor a former new jersey governor. i got no problem. >> if you watch it in isolation, he shouldn't be doing this stuff, what's he supposed to be doing? just sit there. he's got to live a little bit. >> i hear you. i hear you. there's no doubt that i say govern a little bit, that's all. if anything, he's in one of those modes and it isn't fair, right? where everything seems worse in the moment.

that's why when in doubt, take a pause. >> you know, the bottom line is, with obamacare, if at the end of the day, obamacare is good for more americans than it's not, it's going to survive. as a bill, you know, 5, 10, 15 years from now. chris christie, you talk about governing. if in two years from now, if the investigation is over, and he's cleared of wrongdoing and people in new jersey say, hey, you know what, this guy he's been kicked around by the national press. but jersey's better today than it was when he became governor, he's going to fine. >> well, i agree. you know, i'm no chris christie fan. but the fact is, if he governs and there's nothing credible that comes out against him, these knocks become a boost. >> they become a boost, exactly. >> to his advantage. and if i'm there, i'd keep my head down governing. and a lot of this gives you momentum that you never would have had.

and that could happen but he has to be cleared of the allegations, we don't know. i wouldn't be hanging out with joy behar, but depends who is on the scene. >> is that about joy behar? >> no. but if he was on the lineup and i was in the middle of a controversy, i'd salem come on after her. >> you don't want to make it look like you're making light of the situation you're dealing with. that's the issue. that's one of those. it's unfortunate. just stay away. that's all. go do your job, have fun. don't have fun about the scandal. >> chuck, over the last two or three months, chris christie's critics and the press in politics has said this proves it's over. you could never be president. not just -- >> no. >> not you. i mean the critics in the press. this shows if not he knew something about the bridge, but it shows he has no control, his management style is no good. and he could never be president.

do you agree with that? >> i think it's a huge obstacle because of that. he had three great attributes. bipartisan, straight-talker, competency. the problem he's got is one of his two strengths are wrong, right? either he wasn't straight with us, or he wasn't competent, right? he wasn't a very -- he wasn't governing very well. so i do think that hurts him. but, joe, how does he get to that? >> that was the question before all of this. and now it's even harder. >> i just say, though, i agree with reverend al here, that if he survives this, he goes to the primary -- >> i'll tell you what i'd do, makes the media angle -- >> of course. and by the way, by the way, not only conservatives but liberals, they love a politician that can take a punch. >> yep. >> and survive their enemies. and you look at bill clinton, there were a lot of democrats that weren't sure whether they

loved bill clinton or not in the 1990s really. he sold welfare reform. people accused him of selling out. and then he was impeached. for the next five year i heard democrat after democrat you guys tried to take him down. shoved him in your face. this is a guy that took a punch on the jaw, he survived from their political enemies. and it made them love him even more. if chris christie survives this, i agree with the reverend, he's taken a punch from the media and a certain network that i know first time that a lot of conservatives don't like. >> espn2. >> espn2, they hate espn2, conservatives hate espn2. that's the network they hate. but they took a punch from him if he survives. >> it was a set of punches.

>> yeah. i hear what chuck's saying, too. before this even happened. i wonder how south carolina felt about him, how iowa felt about him. >> i think they like him now. >> you think so? >> i think they sympathize with him, right? there is that whole your enemy is my friend. the ideology is still the ideology. >> but eastern media, northeastern media is after you. they sympathize. >> also, for -- >> sidebar. >> sidebar here, counsel. but just for the purposes of the republican race right now and there's a lot of calling -- franti inic calling going on. it's a zero sum gang. the stronger chris christie is the weaker jeb bush is. if chris christie survives this and is strong and decides to run

for president of the united states, i think jeb who is wringing his hands right now stays out. that's, i think, the importance. >> oh, wow, i am not -- okay. i think jeb might be in even if chris christie isn't in at this point. >> yeah? >> yeah. >> we'll see. we've got a lot to get to with ukraine. the u.s. government says there's no doubt russian agents are responsible for the ongoing violence in urine ukraine. protesters backing moscow have occupied government buildings and declared their independence. ukrainian forces expelled the demonstrators from one of their strong holds but another group continues to reinforce their position. secretary of state john kerry accuses the kremlin of instigating the unrest. the unrest isn't in the streets. this fight broke out in parliament. good lord. after a speech accusing kiev's government of intimidation. meanwhile, on capitol hill -- >> who identified this, willie,

south korea legislators or ukrainian legislators? >> i'd just say one thing, klitschko is there. you don't want to mess with that. >> look at that, imagine if you're taking a klitschko. >> we have some problems with forces on the crimean border, and if they cross that, i don't know how -- what the next step is that actually hurts. because it doesn't seem like the russians care. meanwhile on capitol hill, things were more civil but not by much. "the daily beast" reports washington is not sharing intel with ukraine about russian forces along the border. and senator john mccain drew from history when discussing american foreign policy. >> my hero, teddy roosevelt used to say, talk softly but carry a big stick. what you're doing is talking strongly and carrying a very small stick, in fact a twig. >> your fred teddy roosevelt also said that the credit

belongs to the people in the arena who are trying to get things done. and we're trying to get something done. that's that's a teddy rogs svelte maxim, and i abide by it. i think it's important to do its that. sure, we may fail. and you want to dump it on me. i may fail. i don't care. it's worth doing. it's worth the effort. >> i think you're about to hit the trifecta. geneva, too, is a total collapse, as a predicted to you that it would be. israeli/palestinian talks are -- even though you may drag them out for a while -- are finished. and i predict to you even though we gave the iranians the right to enrich which unbelievable those talks will collapse, too. >> let me begin with the place that you began with your premature judgment about the failure of everything. it's interesting that you declare it dead, but the israelis and the palestinians don't declare it dead.

they want to continue to negotiate. >> we'll see, won't we, mr. secretary. >> peg your pardon? >> we'll see. >> yeah, we'll see. >> it is stopped. it is stopped. recognize reality. >> wow. it's getting personal. >> it was. >> yeah. >> what's going jon that's personal. >> we don't know that something didn't happen -- >> those guys were okay when he was not secretary of state. >> two vietnam vets. >> you're sort of surprised when -- i'm surprised that mccain is being public about declaring something here. that's a pundit -- that's what a pundit says. an analyst said it's surprising that the u.s. senate that it got more personal. there's something to peel back the onion on that one. there seems to be something more missing that we don't know because it's -- look. we know that mccain wants a more robust, more aggressive policy.

but that was on another level. and to do the israeli/palestinian thing which by the way, that's been very personal to john kerry. he has willed that. and mccain may be right, by the way. i think it is closer to dead than alive. but it is interesting, why would you do that at a hearing and embarrass the secretary of state in a public stage like that. >> so, rerchverend, a couple da ago, we some morniark moreyal o. i want to ask you the same thing but i'll be more pointed tab because i heard harold ford say something offset that struck me. that you look at what's happened to people of color over the last, five, six years since barack obama's been president of the united states. the numbers aren't encouraging.

and one wonders if there were a republican in the white house, whether there wouldn't be more criticism of the challenges facing african-americans and hispanics in america today compared to six years ago. >> well, the president is speaking at his convention friday, and into today. i think the fact is there's been criticism. if the president had not tried to a jobs bill and other things that would have positively reflected on the african-american/latino community and was not blocked reflects on the president. but when you see every bill, that really reinforces some of these negative numbers, that's the problem. >> so you're feeling the president has done everything that he can do over the past five or six years? >> i think the president has done a lot. i think he's made it his point to sit down with civil rights

leader, and women's rights leaders and others and he's been blocked by boehner and congress. boehner has not shown that they have come with a program. and that's a lot what we're going to deal with at the convention. >> so this is a big week for the national action network starting today. in about an hour, 9:00 a.m., what are we going to see? >> we're going to see the mayor of new york cut the ribbon. >> tell him i say hello. >> i shall. >> tell him i say hello. >> i'll tell him mika said hello. and the attorney general will speak at 11:00. we're doing workshops all day today. friday, the president will be here. today -- we end tonight around 11:00 with a silent salute to joe scarborough's birthday. it will be very silent. >> very silent. >> so tell me what is the state of black america in 2014? the urban league had their

report. >> we agree. we are still unequal. we've made a lot of progress, we're better but we're unequal. we've got to deal with an internal community problem. in terms of employment, in terms of education, and in terms of the whole question of voter suppression. something that we've got to continue to do. >> let me ask you this question, i think it's so critical. you talked about progress that has been made. and i was -- you know, i raved about your special at the apollo because it was hopeful. and the message was, there's so many challenges for african-americans. but my god, the gains that have been made over the past 50 years. the special highlighter. how do you keep young people hopeful when, let's say, for instance, they're facing unequal treatment in the justice system? or maybe they see discrimination in the workplace, or

discrimination in other areas? how do you keep young people hopeful and say, i understand. things are tough. we're not equal yet, but, guys, gals, we've come a really long way. keep your eyes on the prize. >> i think the way you do it, is what you just said. you got to be straight up with them and say it is not fair. we got that. but if you give up, you surrender to the forces that think you can't rise to the occasion. and you've got to go forward. and i tell my story, i come out of the rough and tumble. i did not come up the gilded road but you keep going. and if you're as tough as you think you are, and determined as you should be, you can make progress because people that went through far worse than us, look at what they did. that's what james brown who was like a father to me the entertainer used to tell me. quit having these pity parties, reverend. yeah, your father left, my

mother and father left. look where i am, my own radio station. you need people in your life that will say quit feeling sorry for yourself, because nobody's going to feel sorry for you. keep going. that's why i like it sometimes when people remind people where i came from, i want people in my community to understand to have no excuses. and there will always be a willie geist in your life that will show the path that you take -- >> you mentioned james brown. tlalz great picture of you and the godfather in "the new york times." >> oh, my gosh. >> that picture is 1982, leaving the white house with ronald reagan. >> what a great shot. >> reverend al. >> that's right. >> so -- that's when i had my joe scarborough hair. >> look, reverend, now, look here. look at me and you next to each other. see, we're brothers from another mother. look at that. >> i think that's a stretch.

>> thank you, reverend. >> happy birthday, joe. >> and chuck. tomorrow, right? >> no, you and i are back to back. >> oh, that's right. >> we're going to be watching "politics nation" later today. thank you so much for being with you reverend. chuck todd stick around. harper bazaar laura branson is going to be here. you are about to become very popular. because when you buy the new samsung galaxy s5 on verizon, you get a second samsung galaxy s5 for free. so, who ya gonna give it to?

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growing up, i was blessed to have -- i'd been raised by two strong hard working women, my

grandmother, affectionately known as mama kay, and my mother. taught me that women can work just as hard if not harder, with more responsibilities and they should get paid as much as a man. as a matter of fact, they probably should get overtime. >> thank you, that was senator joe manchin paying tribute to his mother and grandmother on equal payday. he's joining us from washington. senator, thank you very much. >> thanks for having me, mika. tell joe, happy birthday. >> i will. he's talking to a bear. i really don't understand it. anyway, senator, equal pay for women. it's 2014, right, minicole? >> it is. >> it will pass, right? >> i sure hope it does. as we've seen so many times in washington, the bottom line is it's far past that we pass this. you would thing it's common sense.

n west virginia, mika, over 80,000 households are led by women in west virginia. 29,000 are at or below the poverty guidelines, the poverty levels. my goodness, what it would do to increase the quality of life in my state of west virginia would be tremendous. and i just don't believe there's any room for discrimination in any way shape or form in the workplace. and equal pay is the easiest way to really bring that to equality. >> i guess the arguments is that transparency and other things being called for in executive actions southwest in the paycheck fairness act maybe might provide a burden on businesses or create some other complications. i just can't think of any other way, though, to not put women who work in a very difficult position because they're choices are left to not know what other people make, and to think they might not make as much. or to find out and to be too frightened to sue. >> well, let me just say this. let's just take our public offices. our senate staffs and congress

staffs. that's all public. every one of our employees get online and find out what we're paying for certain jobs and who's getting paid what. if it's the same job description and they're doing exactly the sape work and we're paying one more than the other, they have a right to say, senator, what happened here? why are we doing the same and not getting paid the same? we try and look at classifications. what wife qualifications are needed to get the job done. we don't look at female or male. who can do the job and whose better qualified to do it and they get paid the same. and it can be done in the private sector also. >> speaking of private sector, i ran a couple for years. he's the rope, in that i could not run a business if everybody's salary was transparent, for all the obvious reasons, i couldn't manage people. and i could have two people in the same exact job title and paying one of them more because i think they're better. i could have two senior vice

presidents, one female, one male, one could be making 160, one could be making 190, because they've been there longer or working harder. how if you're just making it to appear apples to apples things if main or woman. and if the man is making $25,000 more than the woman -- >> or vice versa. >> or vice versa. this is somewhere you get to a slippy slope. i'm a feminist, but you can't argue from a practicality point of view, it's basically impossible. >> let's say you have a personnel file. you keep a personnel file on each person. if i came in and complained to you and said, joe, let me show you the personnel file on you and the person you're complaining about. they make 20% more. here's the reason for the difference. that should hold up. not everyone is concerned about litigation. you know what, we've got to move forward. you can't hide behind litigation. if you do the right thing and

you have the documents and you can provide those, they might not agree, at least they will think it's treated fair. why did i get a bonus or you didn't get a bonus, vice versa, because i outperformed you. because i had better sales. here's my performance record. if they don't want to do the job and keep the records then they're going to be subjected to litigation. so we have to get our act together. it's worth the effort to move this forward. >> nicole. >> well, the fact that this was complicated was crystallized by jay carney unable to answer why white house staffers made 82 cents on the dollar, women to men. i think that you or someone really known for working across party lines, and i'm curious why the president's message was so harshly political yesterday. and whether you appreciate that, and whether you think that makes this important mission more complicated. >> well, let's just look at the

results by using that type of messaging. it hasn't worked. >> right. >> it doesn't. >> so would you have preferred the president to look for some republicans? there are very strong republican women in the senate that i know you work with every day. >> every day. >> that stood alongside him yesterday and made his message less politically potent but more like policy? that seems to me it would be better that they did. >> i'm not going to speak on behalf of the president, he speaks for his own actions and words there. it doesn't make it right, whether democratic republican or administration, we should have corrected this. this is our time. and i hope we all work together to make sure we correct this error that's been going on for far too long. you've got to reach out. you can't put people in a box and basically keep embarrassing them and think they're going to

work with you. i said this is my only place in my life where i've ever worked you go every day to work, someone's trying to raise money against you and you're trying to raise money against them and beat them and then ask them to co-sponsor a bill. that doesn't work here in west virginia. i've got proof it doesn't work. >> senator, when we were talking about this yesterday. let's be clear about yesterday. yesterday was as much a political message as anything else. this is an election year and you can't help but look at this through the prism of that. but the other part of this issue on fair pay, to me, seems to be more about fair opportunity. and the opportunity gap, it seems to be, is not what you guys are tackling. for instance if you look at the western world and you look at how working mother's access to child care in germany, for instance, versus the united states. you know, you want to know why women might have a better

opportunity at better pay and fairer pay in germany than the united states, for instance but it has to do with the fact that a working mother has more access to child care, say. you know, should that be the type of policies you guys should be tackling on this so that the opportunity gap gets closed? because that is as much to do -- i mean, this fair pay, a lot of times, it is is an experience issue. or it is how much time you've been on the job but how many working mothers do we know that maybe take two years off to deal with child care because maybe their career doesn't fit -- isn't making it easy to be a working mother. and should that be what we're tackling? because ultimately, that is what will lead to more promotions. >> let me ask, how would anyone believe what we would tackle all the different problems or array of inequities or inequalities if we can't say that you should be

paid for the same job? >> to me, that's already in law. question is -- >> chuck, it's a law that's being systematically broken every day in every company in this country almost. >> i understand that but -- >> come on. >> oh, my god, open the books. >> every company -- >> i said almost. i'm sure there are very women-centric companies like donnies that understands the value of a woman. >> chuck's right. you know, when you have a baby and you are looking for a structure that lets you keep pace with men it simply doesn't exist in this country. >> i've watched in the west wing it doesn't exist for working mothers in the west wing in two administrations in a row. essentially, the working mothers be it unfairly benignen punished. you see it in companies. you see it in this industry. you've seen in a lot of industries. my point is, that, to me is biggest problem here and among

the biggest obstacle for women. >> but it's been reality if you're a capitalistic system and you run a company if a mom or dad takes three years off to raise kids their career is going to suffer. it is what it is. >> why don't you make it a more family friendly work environment. i'm just saying, look, there are other countries that are -- in in france, there's day care from the time -- >> you know, what's the shame, mika? >> go ahead. >> what's the shame with all of this, listening to the dialogue going on in the studio and all of us talking about this, this issue has been politicized to this level. this should just be common sense. this should be something that naturally that we do. i was raised in a beautiful, loving, caring family. i was a privileged child because i had unconditional love. i had the strongest women around me. my mother, my grandmother, my aunts. and now i've got strong women. my wife, gayle, i have two

daughters. i have six granddaughters. i want them to have that equal opportunity. i think don't want them to be looking over their shoulder. i want them raising children and knowing the children will be loved and nurtured and be able all they want to be. that's what america should be all about. we should be setting the gold standard for that. >> i agree with you completely. i also agree with you, chuck, a lot of women have given up because it's just not worth it. >> they do a lot more than the men do, i can tell you. when they have a job, they take care of the children, they take care of the home. >> i know. >> they're working overtime all the time. >> we should get paid all the time. senator, i agree with. you chuck todd as well. we'll be right back. know what ts at your ford dealer think? they think about tires. and what they've been through lately. polar vortexes, road construction, and gaping potholes. so with all that behind you,

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some people think the kind of accountability that thrives on so many streets in this country has gone missing in the places where it's needed most. but i know you'll still find it when you know where to look.

oh, my lord, this is going to be so much fun. in two weeks we're hitting the road. "way too early" and "morning joe." live from wrigley field. celebrating 100 years of baseball in chicago on wednesday. >> mika and i are sharing a room. >> what! really, you me and the bear. up next, executive editor of "harper's bazaar" lauren brown, she joins us with the magazine's issue. she's extremely elegant and wait

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♪ all right. not laura. >> not laura. >> well, you don't know me that well yet. >> actually, i do. executive director of "harper's bazaar" laura brown here with the latest issue. and i'm loving it. wait a minute, that looks different. >> yes, this is the new news cover. she's so excited it's the subscriber and she's dancing. >> that's a great cover. it is. >> she's in a frenzy. >> she's in a frenzy. >> kate in a frenzy. >> almost in a french frenzy. >> this is about facing the future, though. >> it's about the developments that's happening in beauty going

forward. so there's all sorts of new treatments all of these options. it's like a beauty buffet. >> basically. >> if you looked it all at once, it might melt your brain. >> if you choose wisely do. >> what's the one must-do? >> there's this thing called -- i forget. i don't think it's new, but it's a laser to stop your neck from falling. >> oh, god. i need to know about that. >> when did that happen? i don't know, at some point. i'm all right for like lines on the face but i don't think anybody want to be a melting candle. >> so kate moss said she's more comfortable in heir skin at 40. >> this is a woman that's been validated as being rather pretty for about 20 years. she's got a kid. she can work when she wants. she just knows herself better and i think that's the point. or hopefully --

>> what is 40 today? >> i'll know in six weeks. >> oh! >> okay. so laura says this, i'm turning 40 on may 27th for some reason, i find this hilarious. i'm not really freaking out but i just don't want my face to fall down. the lines of life are fine. but -- yes, the gravity of the situation that gets me. i'm a light person. so why does the maturing face have to be such a drag. >> yeah. none of us feel our age but i'm mentally 8. and i just thought, you have to be frank about getting older. and i think a lot of women are just like i just look like this. and everything is great. and it's like i'm going to go to my dermatologist and have him tell me what he thinks i should do. then it's up to me to decide. if you want to do a lot, if you want to do nothing. or something in the middle. like botox maybe right there for

a wrinkle for the next boyfriend. >> that's a bad wrinkle. >> i'll tell you what, a lot of dermatologists have made money off. it to think that women are more comfortable talking about the honestly what they want to do as they age. and complexities of how they want to do it gracefully. >> i just don't like women having to tell others every minutia of what you're doing. we're all growing up. also, i'm a natural blond, obviously. >> exactly. >> you know, the thing is, i think to an extent, rashida jones at the women in the world summit. she made such a great comment. we'll close this way. all of these things you can do. and we do some of them. we do. but don't invest too much in terms of your life in terms of your look because it's a decreasing commodity. happy depreciating a few weeks

early. >> thank you so much. my decline. we'll be waiting for the latest issue of "harper's bazaar." laura brown. coming it's never been tol before. author william cohen standing by. you're watching "morning joe." then we gave each person a ribbon to show how many years that amount might last. i was trying to, like, pull it a little further. [ woman ] got me to 70 years old. i'm going to have to rethink this thing. it's hard to imagine how much we'll need for a retirement that could last 30 years or more. so maybe we need to approach things differently, if we want to be ready for a longer retirement. ♪

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in 2007, north carolina's attorney general cleared three duke lacrosse players accused of

sexually assaulting a woman at a party in 2006. the case xwdivided the campus a drew national attention. william cohen, author of "the price of silence." >> thank you for being here. this was an absolute mess, chaos, when it came out. now looking back, it is like it is even more of a mess. the main players, the accuser in jail for murder. the d.a., bankrupt, disbarred, jailed for a night. the duke lacrosse players end up getting $20 million. this party, you say, cost duke university $100 million. talk about it. >> even in a land of plutokrats and millionaires, $100 million by one university to pay for this party is an extraordinary number. >> why did they do it? >> it is a complicated question. i think the simple answer according to people like bob steele who was the chairman of the board of trustees at the

time to spoke to me for the first time after duke told him not to, he said basically we had to make this go away, we had to basically protect our brand, we had litigation exposure and we had to stop it. so paying the kids $20 million each allows them to do that, more or less. it bought their silence, hence the title of the book "the price of silence." it bought a lot of silence but not enough to keep me from doing the book. the easiest thing for me to do would have been to stick to what i had been doing, which was write books about wall street. but this captivated me so much as a duke alum. i wanted to know what to heck happened. >> so no good guys here, you say. the duke lacrosse players who were framed certainly sounded framed in the media. you say they weren't -- >> they weren't angels. >> it was a kaecautionary tale e with an e-mail. >> there are many, many cautionary tales. remember, there was no trial

here. you played the clip from roy cooper, the attorney general of north carolina, he declaimed them innocent in 2007 so there was no trial. what i wanted to do for the first time was compile dispassionately seven years later all of the details that i could find from this case and really have this book be the trial that never happened. >> what's the verdict? >> well, the verdict is, unfortunately, like -- i have a quote -- >> don't give me the ending. >> -- if we can find the truth, it's out there, hopefully we can find it. the truth is we'll never know what happened inside that bathroom at 610 north buchanan boulevard. the d.a. hey talked to, mike nifong, who nobody wants to give any credibility to but whom i actually found quite credible, he believes something happened. i talked to the victim here for the first time when i talked to her in jail. she believe something still happened. bob steele, chairman of the board of trustees, he believes something happened in that bathroom that none of us would be proud of and i believe something happened in that

bathroom none of us would be proud of. >> what are details that really surprise and shocked you? >> i mean, frankly, the details of what happened at that party itself. i'm a duke alum. i watched it from afar like the media -- once upon a time this story was bigger than bridgegate, if that's possible to imagine. the more i found out about what happened at this party and i put the details in here, it really just shocked me. they'd been drinking all day. there were other things that happened that we can't talk about on national television. there was racial epitaphs thrown. nobody's disputing that. not from any point of view. >> you call it the trial that never happened. it looks absolutely fascinate be. the book is called "the price of silence." you can read an excerpt on mojo.msnbc.com. >> you won't be giving me

speeches at duke? up next, to the white house. acts on equal pay but what else can we do to create a level playing field? that discussion is next on "morning joe." the was a truly amazing day. without angie's list, i don't know if we could have found all the services we needed for our riley. for over 18 years we've helped people take care of the things that matter most. join today at angieslist.com thit's not the "limit yoursh hard earned cash back" card . it's not the "confused by rotating categories" card.

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(announcer) the 2015 subaru forester (girl) what? (announcer) built to be there for your family. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. good morning. it is 8:00 on the east coast, 5:00 sam on the west coast as you take a live look at new york city. back with us on set, we have donny deutsch, nicole -- wow, we don't allow that. come on. there's no place for that. >> you know what?

the fact that he -- >> can you do that again? >> ding. >> sorry, nicole. julie pace is in washington. >> big event at the white house. >> yes. >> you were there along with valerie and a lot of other people. of course, the president. tell us about the event. >> this is the east room of the white house. it was sort of like a church revival. i'm telling you, every time the president made a comment about why women should be paid equally to men, equal pay for equal work -- talking about the same jobs, you'd hear like, okay. and they'd be clapping. like almost praise teases. it was fun. and he -- >> little known fact, you told me that when he kissed you on the cheek he whispered "ditch that guy with the big nose next to you." >> yeah. he tried. but he said that last time and, look. you're still here. >> i'm still here.

at least for a little bit. >> no. it was a great event. it is actually teeing up what's going on today at capitol hill. he signed two executive orders yesterday which play in to this but the senate is set to take up the paycheck fairness act today. part of a push by democrats to address the gap in wages between men and women. that legislation would allow workers to compare salaries. without worrying about the threat of retaliation. it also would compel companies to explain pay disparities between men and women and allow workers who allege discrimination to seek damages. yesterday the president signed two executive actions designed at creating greater transparency for the wages of federal contractors a move the white house says is a key first step. president used the occasion to contrast his stance with the republicans on this. >> some commentators out there are paying the pay gap doesn't even exist. they say it is a myth. but it is not a myth.

it's man. you can look at the paychecks. you can look at the stubs. this isn't just about treating women fairly. this is about republicans seemingly opposing any efforts to even the playing field for working families. i don't know why you would resist the idea that women should be paid the same as men. and then deny that that's not always happening out there. if republicans in congress want to prove me wrong, if they want to show that they in fact do care about women being paid the same as men? then show me. they can start tomorrow. they can join us in this, the 21st century, and vote yes on the paycheck fairness act. vote yes. >> republicans were pushing back, calling the legislation a political stunt in an election year, noting that it is already illegal to discriminate on the

basis of gender. >> many ladies i know feel like they are being used as pawns and find it condescending that democrats are trying to use this issue as a political distraction. >> republicans support equal pay for equal work. it's probably better for us to sit down and see how we can make sure that the law is being properly implemented rather than play politics with this. >> i would urge us to stop politicizing women and let's start focusing on those policies that are actually going to help women and everyone in this country. >> so, eric cantor says what i believe, which is equal pay for equal work. >> of course. who wouldn't be for that? >> don't most americans agree with that? >> i think most americans agree with that. i hated watching those three sound bites. eric cantor might believe what he believes but the others seemed like hostage videos, truly. because the truth is pay discrimination exists. they know it. and to be put out there like that seems kind of sad at this

point. >> let's talk about the issue here. >> sure. i am. >> no, you're talking about -- >> the politics. >> -- about the women who can speak quite well for themselves, thank you. i'm asking just about the issue. equal pay for equal work. i i think everybody agrees with that. so i'm asking -- i'm not being difficult here. my question is why was necessary for the president to sign that bill yesterday if it's already the law of the land that you can't discriminate against women? >> exactly. equal pay for equal work and there's a law against it except the law doesn't work because you can't prove it. you can't prove it unless you're littlely led better and someone by mistake gives you pay stubs or unless you're me and you have a co-host who will tell you what he makes, and then back you when you go in there and fix it, like you did. otherwise it doesn't work for the women with no voiz out there, which is most of the women in america who don't have

the platform i have, who don't have a progressive boss or a great group to work with and a man who can help with the problem who will actually be transparent. we need transparency. because otherwise the law exists for women to take a legal action. nicole, would you like to be a woman taking legal action against her company? >> of course not. this is the problem. the republican problem on this issue is that we're having the wrong fight. we're in a defensive crouch and quibbling about what the definition of discrimination is. what we should be talking about is our plan to level the playing field because whether it boils down to a factcheck.org mission or not, most women feel underpaid and underappreciated and overstrapped in the workplace. >> by the way, let's just talk as the republicans at the table who talk about having -- i'm still trying to figure out what willie is. >> he's sweet.

>> the marxist or a right wing -- but anyway, i will say this seems like one of these fights where you go, come on, guys. i will say, i also, as a republican, sort of flinched every time barack obama kept saying at this event it should be a unifying event. republicans, republicans, republicans, republicans. >> he made it very political. >> he made it very, very political, which makes republicans think, oh, this really isn't about women, this is about 2014 and the gender gap and this quote "war on women." bogus charge. >> so presume that president obama is doing this for politics. >> so what should republicans do? >> they should have the fight on a ground that is more friendly to republicans. what republicans have historically championed is an agenda for small business owners. the majority of small business

owners in this country who make up the majority of employers hiring new employees in this country are women. so the republicans have a natural alignment with women's issues if they can make themselves the champions of the small business owner and really understand what it is they need. republicans also need to really get out of that defensive crouch when it comes to equal pay. >> it is a defensive crouch. when mika was reading what the bill was about and i was listening to the president between his attacks on republicans, i was going that kind of -- what's wrong with transparency? because, you know, nobody's saying everybody needs to get paid the same. but if i'm working in one cubicle and somebody is working in another cubicle and i'm getting paid less as a matter of math because of my gender, that's obviously a serious issue. >> it is. i don't think it is political. >> of course it is political. by the way, it is a serious issue. by the way, of course what barack obama did yesterday was political and what is wrong with that? he's basically -- he is --

democrats party is the inclusive party and they are still trying to coin the republican party as the party of mitt romney, the party of those guys, the party of 1%. . >> the binders full of women. >> so it is very smart. >> it is inarguable. >> inarguable that it is a political -- >> it is inarguable that it is a position nobody can argue it and it is a win-win for them. it keeps the republicans in -- i think the word you used -- in a crouch and this is the winning-winning move -- and i said this the other day. you can even start to inch obamacare into that whole pot. now it is 9 million people that weren't insured. we are for the every man and had they are not. it's part of that narrative. >> it is great generals understand what wars to fight and what wars to avoid. the greatest general wins the war without firing a single shot. this is a battle, so long as

they're not going in and telling employers you must pay everybody the same no matter what. if it is about transparency, this is an argument that republicans need to tread lightly on. >> let me ask a question about politics. first, say something. i understand the political benefit of going after this and i don't think there is anything wrong with that at all. especially since it was the first thing the president did when he got into office back in 2009. he has a record on this. it is not random. he also has a number of -- well, large number of women working there. the problems within the white house with pay that have been uncovered so vehemently by republicans shows just how deep the problem is. so in a way, this legislation needs to pass. it probably won't given the way the republicans are facing it right now but here's the thing. it is political. except, nicole, that it would actually work for will. it would actually be good for women. so it is not just sort of a shallow self-serving political move.

it's something that would make this country better. >> i think a lot of people though that champion a cause for political purposes believe in the cause. >> exactly. >> i think they're not making it entirely political but i have to give the president the benefit of the doubt and presume he thought that was good for the country. so anything that's political is i think usually rooted in a politician's belief that it is good for the country. >> except for this fact. if this is like the most important thing -- if this is a very important thing to the president, and if any of us are in the president's position -- and we want this bill to pass so it can be signed -- you don't do that by having a pep rally, a church revival, as you say, where you're bashing the other side that controls the house of representatives and will determine whether it passes through the house or not. in fact, you try to co-opt them. the first thing you try do politically -- >> he knows we're not going to buy into it so he's setting it up that way. >> he knows that. see, this is the attitude at the white house that drives me

absolutely crazy. we know they're not going to support us so let's not bend offense backwards to try to make it happen and let's have a pep rally. if he knows it is not going to pass, what you've just admitted is it was nothing but a political pep rally yesterday. >> it was a smart offensive political move and, unfortunately -- i could turn around the other way, the fact that the house would not sign off on it, we all around this table know that, is kind of a sad statement. if you take that as a fait accompli and you are the president, you do what he did. it is politics and it is smart politics. >> i want to ask you as somebody that's been in business. just be real. i've been in business. i've been in media. i've been in politics. i've been in law. i've coached football. i've written musicals. i've done a lot of things. and in everyone of these situations i have seen men in a superior position. i saw my mom work. i saw my aunt work. and -- >> harder. >> harder. >> than anyone else.

>> whether you're talking about businesses on southern baptist churches or charity organizations, you know where i'm going here. in most businesses, anybody out there that says that women get equal pay right now and get equal treatment right now to men who run the majority of companies has never lived in the real world, has no idea how business runs, how the media runs, how politicians run. anything. >> we've talked a lot on this show. t 10 of my 12 partners are women, that's why we are so successful. equal pay is not equal job status. it just further argues the argument because there's only 5% of ceos. that's the real problem. they're not in the positions. not that apples and apples -- it is apples and oranges. >> they fail on that too. >> that is the difficult grey area. how do you prove a woman was not promoted because of her gender?

that's a very difficult thing to legislate, it is a very difficult thing for a politician to impose on a company. i think we also have to look at the reasons why the pay is not equal. the 77 cents to $1 thing that is been debunked over and over again. >> it's worse than that, actually. >> that number is for median full-time work which means some women are taking different jobs, they're less experienced, working fewer hours. if you want the pay to be equal on a median basis you have to look at what kind of jobs women enter, what kind of fields they go into. that doesn't mean there is not discrimination. there is. but you have to be honest about what the problem is before you can attack it. >> more women coming out of college today, women are superior and the more progressive businesses, advertising, publishing, fashion, have already got be there and the free market system is going to fix this over the next generation. >> julie pace, do you agree there are more women out there and they're far superior? >> well, there are a lot of superior women out there i think in media. there are a lot of great women who work at the white house. i think that this is a really

complicated debate because it's not just about equal pay for equal work, as we've been talking about. when you line. up women who are doing the same job as men you can find a lot of examples where they are getting the same pay but it's can women get in to that job. there was a lot of focus yet on something interesting at the white house which was the front row of the white house briefing room during the daily briefing with jay carney. there are seven news organizations that sit in that front row. my news organization is the only one that had a woman in the chair yesterday. so even though women are making a lot of gains, when you look at senior level positions, there are just anecdotal examples all around us every day where you see that it is not quite equal. >> julie, as someone who covers the white house just tactically to the point we've been talking about it here, what is the thinking behind sort of the approach that the president took yesterday which was to be pretty partisan in his attacks against republicans. he knows it is not going to pass. what's the end game for him

here? >> sure. well, i mean this is one of those instances where you have a policy that the president believes in, that the white house also sees as smart politics. they know that the bill is likely not going to pass in the senate. it is one of those chicken and egg things though. right? because you have the president sort of assuming at the start that a bill is not going to pass so he really calls out republicans, tries to draw a stark contrast for the political victory there. then republicans can say, well, how can we work with someone who is so partisan? obviously the republicans are using that as their own political message but you do see the white house saying basically if we can't get legislation through, we're at least going to try to exploit this for a political victory. coming up on "morning joe," president obama signs an executive or on equal pay but there's so much more work to be done. an exclusive look at the white house roundtable discussion on that very issue. and then, it is an addiction that knows no limits. an nbc special report on heroin

in america. up next, the top stories in the political playbook. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> mika, i haven't had a forecast this easy in months. finally, everybody is getting a break. no big storms, no snow, no severe weather. just nice, spring conditions with a few showers. that sums it up. you can see coast to coast, there's not a lot of rain out there. not even many clouds. a lot of us dealing with nine and sunglasses. the air going across the country from west to east, instead of coming down from the north, that's why we're much warmer now than we were the last couple of months, we've finally closed the door on the cold canadian air. look at areas like minneapolis today. about ten days ago it was snowing and snowing hard. 72 today in minneapolis! the warmest you've been in six months. enjoy that. we're warm all the way down to south texas. we're not exactly toasty on east coast but at least we're near normal to a little bit above average. phoenix at 97 degrees is very warm for this time of year.

even into tomorrow, just a little bit of light rain out there in the great lakes. 70 in d.c. where those cherry blossoms and all the other flowers are blooming. look at the green on the trees already. gorgeous weather. enjoy that lunch outdoors around the country today. you're watching "morning joe." salesperson #1: so, again, throwing in the $1,000 fuel reward card is really what makes it like two deals in one. salesperson #2: actually, getting a great car with 42 highway miles per gallon makes it like two deals in one. salesperson #1: point is there's never been a better time to buy a jetta tdi clean diesel. avo: during the first ever volkswagen tdi clean diesel event, get a great deal on a jetta tdi. it gets 42 highway miles per gallon. and get a $1,000 fuel reward card. it's like two deals in one. volkswagen has the most tdi clean diesel models of any brand. hurry in and get a $1,000 fuel reward card and 0.9% apr for 60 months on tdi models. ♪ i ♪ and i got the tools ira

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time now to take a look at the morning papers. sydney morning herald, black boxes from the missing malaysian jet are now in bonus time as crews race against the clock to

find the wreckage of flight 370. yesterday two more pings were detected off the coast of australia. authorities say this brings them closer than ever to officially confirming the location of the plane allowing searchers to narrow the search. the louisiana congressman caught on camera kissing a staffer is asking for the fbi to investigate who leaked the photo. it appears to show the congressman and the woman together. appears. you just don't know. now a local pastor is accusing mcallister's district office of the leak. the office manager denies the accusati accusation. the los angeles times, a number of stay-at-home moms is rising. in 2012, 29% of women stayed at home with their kids. that's up from 23% in 1999. the vast majority of stay-at-home moms say they chose to remain in the home to focus on their children. 6% say they can't find a job. amazing.

>> what do you think is driving that? >> a lot of different things that we should talk about and will in the roundtable. finally, my own paper -- the most interesting man -- >> the most interesting man in the world turns 51 today! >> what are we doing? stop this. ♪ happy birthday to you ♪ happy birthday >> what are we doing? >> i told you we'd make a small mention. there is a cake for you. bring it over here. >> who is that? >> oh. oh. >> i do like, joe, that you read half-way through the paper before you discovered it.

♪ happy birthday to you ♪ happy birthday to you ♪ happy birthday dear joe ♪ happy birthday to you >> this is your definition of a quiet birthday? >> yes. i wanted to do something for you. >> unmask yourself there. >> i'm not surprised. okay. my lord. >> thank you. >> should we do politico?

>> coming up. >> 66 has never looked so good, joe. >> thank you. we're going to somehow transition to the dancing bear to politico. it is now the chief white house correspondent mike allen with a chief look at the playbook. >> i have nye noisemaker here but no cake. >> we've got some for you, mike. we'll save you some in the freezer. >> excellent. >> talk to me now. politico has a profile up this morning. tell me a little bit about it. >> yeah. we're launching a service today campaign pro for people who follow the permanent campaign. our first feature is about sean eldridge, one of the most interesting house races in the country. this is the husband of the facebook founder chris hughes up in the catskills, hudson valley area of new york, challenging a republican in a swing district. it has a republican congressman but obama carried it. what's fascinating is how sean

eldridge is going about running. he's 27 and he started a venture capital firm up there, hudson river ventures -- hudson valley ventures, and is now investing in the community so he's creating jobs there and -- with his firm and then goes out and uses that as part of his campaign platform. so it is a new way to get to know the community. he also has invested in big-time polling, public relations firms. testing the limits of how much you can spend in one house race. >> i love how you guys put it in the piece. sean eldridge is making all of that look quaint, talking about traditional campaigning. putting up 30-second ads and raising a lot of money. he doesn't have to given who his husband is, the facebook founder. what are his prospects? >> we have a 27-year-old running against a 49-year-old incumbent who tries to -- chris gibson who tries to dismiss him as a "nice

young man" who doesn't know much about the district. but the challenge for sean eldridge is how do you break through this big money spending and get to know the district? how do you get people there to know you as a person? he puts a lot of photos up on facebook which won't surprise you. but the local reporters told us that they don't get his public schedule, that there isn't a lot of personal interaction. that's going to be the challenge, both in these mid-terms and in 2016. how do politicians adapt to the social age but also keep that human touch. >> thanks, mike. a look at the political discussions taking place in the white house over equal pay. >> i have two children and since they've been born i've been on call 24/7. i've been on call more than my male counterparts at work. i've taken less vacation. i've put in more time at work.

i probably have put in more hours in the day than most of my male counterparts. not just talking about my current male counterparts. i'm talking about all of them. >> but is that fair? and shouldn't we have a 21st century workplace that recognizes that it is important for you to be a good mom and that you shouldn't feel like you're hanging on by your fingertips. >> more of that discussion next with "morning joe" comes right back. ♪

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part of that is fighting for fair pay for women, because when women succeed, america succeeds. when women succeed, america succeeds. it's true. >> that was president obama yesterday as part of the white house push for equal pay for equal work. i sat down with two women who refuse to accept being paid less than men as part of a special roundtable at the white house. >> two executive actions today. what are they? >> first, the president is going to sign an executive order that is going to prohibit federal contractors from retaliating against people who share pay. we know one of the reasons why people are discriminated against in the workplace is they have no idea they are being

discriminated against. other important action is a presidential memorandum where the president will direct the department of labor to collect vital statistics on pay along the lines of gender and race. i think we are thrilled today to have amanda and lilly here whose stories really illustrate why this is so important. kick it off and tell a little bit about what happened to you in the workplace. >> i'm just the tip of the iceberg because after working 19 years for goodyear tire and rubber, a major corporation that had government contracts, i learned how much less i was being paid than my male counterparts. and the first devastating thought was all of my overtime and how much my family had done without simply because i had not been paid what i had legally earned under the law. and the other devastating part of this, it goes on for the rest of your life. i've been in retirement years now for quite some time, and i became that other statistic in this country. i'm a widow, outliving my spouse, probably averaging ten

years, and my income dropped more than 50%. >> amanda, why don't you tell your story because it is also a very similar story of not being paid equally. >> there was no excuse. there was no justification for why i was not paid equally to a man. the only justification and the only reason was because i was a woman. i was told that people wouldn't want to do business with me because i was a woman. i was told that i wouldn't be a very good mother if i was out on the road making a sales call and my daughter happened to fall off the monkey bars and i was three hours away. i filed a complaint with the eeoc while i was still working with the company. they did the investigation and four years later i went into mediation and reached a settlement of $125,000. >> so what are you doing now? >> i pam a full-time student. i'm going to be majoring in sociology and i wait tables at night to support myself. >> were there moments that you didn't want -- that you felt you couldn't say anything? >> of course. yes. all the time.

>> why? why? why? >> sure. because the whole culture of this company was women were looked at as just on stand-by until a good man came along to take care of her. >> but if you said something, what would happen? why didn't you just say right from the get-go, that's ridiculous? >> because i needed this job. i had two little people at home. there weren't a lot of opportunities and i made for the area good money. i worked very hard for it, six days a week, 55 hours a week, but i needed that money. >> how do women speak out? how do they say something? i could say something. it was easy. my co-host was behind me. my boss is progressive. i could get in their face. i have a powerful job. >> this is the concern that the president has, is that there are so many women who are afraid of retaliation, who cannot afford to lose a job, who are barely hanging on by their fingertips. we have to look at ways of powering them. so what this executive order will do is prevent your employer

from retaliating. >> i don't know if i could have done what you did. see, it was much easier for me and i look at both of you in complete awe and with great respect. so betsy, what transparency does, in my opinion -- and everyone knows where i stand on this -- but what it does is it keeps people from being in amanda's situation, or lilly's situation where they probably had some misgivings about coming forward. >> the thing that's clear is that transparency in the labor market is the way the labor market will work best. so even though this is great for women, it is actually great for the economy because our labor market will work better if everybody knows and can figure out what's their worth and can negotiate for their worth and can change jobs if they're not in the right place. >> i think that's true to an extent, although it is probably problematic and complicated when you are competing for talent.

because different talent has different value and it is very hard to put a number on it just to be sympathetic a little bit to how complicated it will be to bring transparency to the table. but the moral, quite frankly, responsibility we have for women, tina -- >> it's been 51 years since the equal pay act has been in effect. so this isn't something like a new obligation being put on employers. it's been half a century that employers in this country have been required to pay women equal wages for equal work. >> and they're not doing it. do you know how many women have written me since i wrote my book? >> absolutely. >> talking about their situation? they are paid far less than 77 cents for every $1 or 88 cents or whatever. i'm talking half. i'm talking lilly's money. >> right. it doesn't matter what profession, what education, you hold those things constant, there is still a wage gap. >> from what i've seen -- there are arguments women leave, they have babies, they come back. dhim different things that affect their value.

but i've never met a woman with a child and a job that actually doesn't work harder for had her male counterparts. i'm not being funny. we overcompensate. it is in our nature. i'm really not sure why we still today are having this conversation and even being grateful for being at the table. >> one of the things that i think is my most valuable asset is that i'm a mother. i love being a mother. it's when i'm the happiest. and those assets of being a mother, being a hard worker, being able to manage people, being able to have a budget and stick within that budget, the whole thing, to say that you don't want to bring those assets with you to a company is beyond me. it makes no sense. >> lilly, do you -- when you look around this table, hear this conversation, are you still worried though about the companies that maybe aren't so interested in rectifying the situation? >> i am. because there are so many people in the transparency. that's the key word in my situation, because when i hired

in with this major corporation, they said if you discuss your pay while working here, you will not have a job. and this is not right. this is not right. this means that children do without. they do without a better education. they do without better food. therefore, the obesity problem. this is national epidemic in this country and it is also around the world. >> that social stigma of women thinking, well, i'm not as good as them so i shouldn't really negotiate. i'm not valuable as them so i shouldn't really say anything. >> that feeling needs to be turned upside down. if a woman watching this gets anything out of this, it's to stop thinking that way. stop thinking that way. because if you think that way, it will be that way. >> you live that way. yes. >> know your value. >> if you want to find out how much you should be getting paid for your job, there's an app that's now available online called narrowthegap.

collection it out. because when you go in there, you're trying to rectify a situation, the first thing you should have is data. coming up, a check on the markets. business before the bell is next. brian sullivan. gp have a seat. >> how you doing? (dad) just feather it out. that's right.

(son) ok. feather it out. (dad) all right. that's ok. (dad) put it in second, put it in second.

(dad) slow it down. put the clutch in, break it, break it. (dad) just like i showed you. dad, you didn't show me, you showed him. dad, he's gonna wreck the car! (dad) he's not gonna wreck the car. (dad) no fighting in the road, please. (dad) put your blinker on. (son) you didn't even give me a chance! (dad) ok. (mom vo) we got the new subaru because nothing could break our old one. (dad) ok. (son) what the heck? let go of my seat! (mom vo) i hope the same goes for my husband. (dad) you guys are doing a great job. seriously. (announcer) love a car that lasts. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. (agent) i understand. (dad) we've never sold a house before. (agent) i'll walk you guys through every step. (dad) so if we sell, do you think we can swing it? (agent) i have the numbers right here and based on the comps that i've found, the timing is perfect. ...there's a lot of buyers for a house like yours. (dad) that's good to know. (mom) i'm so excited. they don't know it yet, but they're gonna fall in love,

get married, have a couple of kids, [ children laughing ] move to the country, and live a long, happy life together where they almost never fight about money. [ dog barks ] because right after they get married, they'll find some financial folks who will talk to them about preparing early for retirement and be able to focus on other things, like each other, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. welcome back, everybody. look at that beautiful shot of manhattan. it is going to be a lovely spring day. "business before the bell" with cnbc's brian sullivan. we have him in the house. you got big numbers to talk about. >> 2.1 trillion. good morning, by the way. bud analytics says the amount of

cash u.s. companies held overseas from 2008 to 2013 is now at $2.1 trillion. now when you start to get to the "t" number, thomas, that's a big number. $2.1 trillion up a couple hundred million from the last. companies just hoarding cash overseas. they don't want to bring it back here because they don't want to be taxed on it. numbers will be grabbing normal headlines, not just about business headlines. >> for banking safety and all of us that use the convenience of apps and logging in on websites to take care of business, now we are being told that we may not be as say as we thought. >> no. huge internet security breach. food care is what it is. the point is, it is dangerous. internet security experts say this -- listen, don't change your password until you get notification from the company that you're using online that they have fixed the patch. otherwise, there is a risk the bad guys will just now have your new password. so if you bank with abc bancorp,

what have, wait for them to say "we fixed the patch." then can you change your password. i'm telling you, donny, these internet security problems, they've got to fix this. are we going back to the abacus and pen and paper? >> it is nice to know the patch has been installed. from they've fixed it. it is too early to be that cynical. >> too early in the morning or too early in life? >> in life. for you. >> cnbc's brian sullivan. thanks so much. up next, nbc's kate snow joins us with a must-see report on america's heroin epidemic. it truly is. it is a fantastic report. morning he joe next. the tools ♪ ♪ to do it my way ♪ i got a lock on equities ♪ that's why i'm type e ♪ ♪ that's why i'm tyyyyype eeeee, ♪ ♪ i can do it all from my mobile phone ♪ ♪ that's why i'm tyyyyype eeeee, ♪ ♪ if i need some help i'm not alone ♪ ♪ we're all tyyyyype eeeee, ♪ ♪ we've got a place that we call home ♪

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back with "hooked, america's heroin epidemic." recent deaths have put the issue back in the headlines in a big way. the problem is gripping the entire nation and all walks of life. nbc national correspondent kate snow spent several months finding every day people willing to unveil their struggle with addiction. kate joins us to showcase these stories. i watched this reporting last night on "nightly." it was an amazing story, this family. it is heartbreaking when you find out the real stories of how these people got to these places and you unmasked the truth. >> and brave people speaking out to us, thomas. heroin use nearly doubled in the united states between 2007 and 2012. if you're imagining the stereotype of a junkie living under and overpass, think about.

you're about to meet michelle. her story proves heroin addiction really doesn't discriminate. >> i'm a great mom. i'm a teacher. i'm a daughter. a niece. i'm all of these great things. and then i am a heroin addict showing up at a fourth of july party with track marks. >> reporter: for years michelle lived a double life in picturesque putnam county outside new york city. her stories defies the stereotype of a heroin addict. >> i come from a good family, very tight. i mean a great neighborhood in the suburbs. >> reporter: she had always wanted to be a teacher. >> i love being with kids, period. i could be with kids all day. >> reporter: the only thing michelle loved more was being a mom to her daughter. >> this is her third birthday here. she is everything to me. >> reporter: but after an unhappy first marriage she started drinking heavily, then turned to prescription painkillers. when the money ran out she switched to a cheaper fix -- heroin. >> what does it feel like?

>> it felt like that i couldn't feel hurt anymore. numb, energized. >> so you were teaching while high on heroin. >> yes. >> using in the bathroom? >> yes, i did that. >> teacher bathroom? >> teacher bathroom. so irrational that i didn't even think twice if a teacher would walk in. that was how irrational my thinking was. >> were you shooting it into your veins? >> in my neck. >> eventually michelle lost everything. her teaching license and custody of her daughter. when she came for visits, michelle would retreat to the bathroom to shoot up. >> my mother would knock on the door. she'd look at me. and she'd be like disgusted. you know, kids are smart. even at 9 years old, they know that there's something wrong. and she's afraid. i feel like a terrible mother. but i can't stop because i'm not done. >> physically dependent on heroin. if she didn't get high she'd be sick.

after a third dui facing felony charges and four years in jail, she was sent to this man. >> good afternoon, sir. thank you very much. >> reporter: judge james reetz oversees one of the 2,700 treat courts in the u.s. >> i've seen old people, lawyers, doctors, teachers that have lost their licenses. >> reporter: defendants agree to a two-year treatment program. if they fail they go to jail. >> you face several years -- i think 27 if you're not successful. correct? how are you, sir? >> reporter: he gave our cameras rare access. >> tough times, haven't we? >> yes. >> reporter: when he started eight years ago he rarely saw heroin addiction. now that's nearly 60% of his caseload. young people in court told us heroin has become the cool drug in the local schools. it is cheaper and more accessible than a six-pack. >> if i hadn't come into this program, i'd be dead right now. >> treatment court motivated me to continue to do the right thing. >> reporter: michelle is back in that same courtroom these days,

now part of the judge's treatment court team. four years sober, she is working toward a certification to counsel people with addiction. >> it is possible to come out the other side. >> reporter: brandon and michelle meet in treatment court and married last summer. it was a beautiful ceremony with a familiar face presiding. >> michelle, do you take brandon to be your wedded husband? >> i do. >> reporter: michelle's daughter was her bridesmaid standing at her side. >> you're not going to be a teacher anymore. >> no. >> but you sort of are. you're going to be teaching other people how to follow the path that you've taken. >> exactly. yes. >> michelle agreed to speak out to us because she wanted to put a face on this and show that not just that there is a dark side -- it is very dark -- but that there is hope and there is a way to overcome this addiction which is a disease. >> she seems like life is perfectly moving on for her. she's moving forward but she seems pretty self-aware though of where she's come from. how do these people that you've been interviewing, especially those that are on a positive

side feel that they've got the proper grip of this. it is an addiction, a life-changing addiction. >> everybody said to me, you never outgrow this. you don't really get out of this addiction. you just fight it for the rest of your life. it is a life-long struggle for a lot of people but there are treatment programs. unfortunately, not enough to go around right now. there are waiting lists in a lot of places we've been but there are ways to get help and we have resources on our website if you are looking for an 800 number or a way to find treatment. >> great stuff, kate. really has been great reporting. thanks so much for peeling this back. nbc news special series is "hooked -- america's heroin epidemic." coming up, what, if anything, did we learn today? stick around for that. ♪ [ banker ] sydney needed some financial guidance so she could take her dream to the next level. so we talked about her options. her valuable assets were staying. and selling her car wouldn't fly. we helped sydney manage her debt and prioritize her goals,

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♪ [ male announcer ] our priority has always been saving the day. because our priority... amazing! [ male announcer ] ...is you! the amazing spider-man 2 delivered by the united states postal service. time to talk about what you learned today. mika? >> happy birthday! >> wow. what did you learn, thomas? >> age is not an appreciating value and someone with bear claws hacked into the side. >> all the icing eating. >> nicole? >> i love cake but i'm sort of daunted by the size of this one. i learnedish be worried about my neck. >> who knew? donny? >> 51 is the new 31. >> what did you learn today, joe? >> i learned that when i tell you i want a quiet birthday,

that your definition of quiet is a little bit -- here we go. the high jinks on this show is just incredible. >> i love it. >> hug it out. >> over to chuck and "the daily rundown." tension is building even bigger in eastern ukraine as pro-russian separatists take hostages now in an effort to find a home under the umbrella of vladimir putin. secretary kerry faces fierce criticism on capitol hill from an old friend over what the u.s. is and is not prepared to do about all of it. meanwhile, tough talk in texas. former president jimmy carter kicks off the civil rights summit at the lbj library by declaring the country is not making good on the era of equal opportunity that johnson and dr. king