i have to say it gingerly. my vee news is a problem. that's how you have to say it. >> matt imaginative -- ooh squirrel. >> he get ts distracts easy. >> i think so. i think glasses would help him. >> i think he should go back to his old hair cut. >> what's old is new again. "way too early is over" "morning joe" starts now. ♪ good morning. it's thursday, april 10th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set we have national editor for new york magazine and msnbc political analyst mark heilemann. and mark halperin. >> you are working through it. >> we are. >> we're on the other side.

>> right. >> good morning. how are you doing, mika? are you okay? >> i am. >> okay. >> willie, how you doing? >> i'm okay. what am i missing? >> you're not missing anything. so, you know, rob lowe and i we don't have a lot in common. >> i know rob lowe and you don't. >> he's a west coast guy, i'm an east coast guy. he chose hollywood and i chose the pursuit of law and justice. you know, he's a liberal. right? famous liberal. i am a conservative. but the one thing we do have in common -- >> what's that? >> it's a cross we've had to bear our entire life. that rob lowe like me -- >> yes. >> -- has had his career damaged by his savage good looks. right? anybody else have that problem

around here. >> you're being punished. >> i'm like dicaprio in "titanic." if i just was a little less beautiful. >> you look in the mirror, you say why me. >> i know. i go up to people all the time and i go, don't hate me because i'm beautiful. that saying off that l'oreal commercial. >> it's not l'oreal. l'oreal is you're worth it. but it's not you guys who are worth it. >> he's not as liberal as you think he is. that's why he's in the news lately. he says he wants government out of his life at all times. >> is that his sister? >> if you don't have a heart. >> rob lowe is actually a really, really, nice, smart guy. >> so mika you actually worked with him. >> i worked with him at a fest kal. i was his apprentice.

>> how'd that work out? >> it was incredible. >> is that what they call the back of the 1980s. >> i put quotes around him because i was literally the only campus that did not throw herself at him. and i think he found it a founde offputting. >> made him chase you, huh? >> no. it just didn't happen. >> so you called apprentice in the 1980s. >> yes. >> what were your duties? >> help him with anything he needs. help him with his scripts, bring him coffee. >> help all around. >> he was mentoring me. >> he was supposed to mentor me. >> did you learn anything? >> did he teach you how to, like, blow that st. elmo's fire? >> no. it was sort of in the middle of all that. >> women were just throwing themselves at him. >> it was frightening to see how people treated him. and i think that whatever good looks, i don't think that was it.

>> you actually felt sorry for him. >> i did. >> that's how i feel whenever i deal with mark halperin during a convention. >> i was embarrassed for women. >> they throw themselves at halperin. >> it's because of you. >> so tonight, very big event. rock and roll hall of fame. barkley center. bruce ratner, man. bringing it all to brooklyn. >> kiss. >> there's a lot of controversy. >> why? >> this band. here is a conflict with the guy who is run the hall of fame about whether they would perform or not and whether they would be allowed to perform at the rock of the hall. they don't exist in the original incarnation. they wanted to bring up new band members. >> too much information already. >> and they're not going to play. >> not going to play? >> they're not playing. >> should it out loud? >> they're not going to play.

>> they call me dr. love? detroit rock city? they're not playing any of those. >> and they aren't going to play rock and roll all night. >> dear lord. anyway, chuck really lawsman, he is obsessed with kiss. >> and it's a brilliant piece. >> we agree he went a little too deep when he went -- >> doing the solo albums. >> when you ask about peter's solo album. >> we'll have the e street band inducted. nirvana inducted. peter gabriel inducted. linda ronstadt inducted. >> don henley is going to be introducing her. >> bonnie raitt and others performing for her. >> i love it. >> we've got to get to news. there is a lot to get to this

morning including a pretty devastating story out of pennsylvania where a teenage suspect is accused of stabbing 20 classmates and a security guard. the attacker's in custody. he's a teenager. probably going to be tried as an adult. the injuries are horrific. there are four people in critical condition and the wounds all across the board bear a story of a vicious repeated stabbing from this young man. we'll have a complete breakdown of the latest details on this in just a few minutes. also, last night we have some news in terms of the lbj presidential library in austin. by the end of the day several presidents had marked the day at the lbj library. president obama and president barack obama will speak later today while president carter addressed the conference on tuesday. last night it was president clinton's turn to talk about the importance of the civil rights act 50 years after lyndon johnson signed it into law.

>> we're here because the civil rights act and the voting rights act made it possible for jimmy carter, bill clinton, and barack obama to be president of the united states. we celebrate the passage of these laws at this place because of president johnson's pivotal, brilliant leadership in passing them. just as abraham lincoln stewarded the 13th amendment through congress, johnson's leadership embodies the power of the presidency to redeem the promise of america. i am concerned that on this 50th anniversary these divisions and the lack of a spirit of coming together put us back in the dust bend of old history.

we have too many current challenges to waste a day trying to recreate a yesterday that we're better off done with. >> yep. so, willie, obviously the president has been frustrated by the lack -- president clinton has been frustrated by the lack of anything substantial coming out of washington for years now. and it's hard for people not in washington today to figure out how you can have a president and a congress that gets so little done. he couldn't stand newt gingrich and newt gingrich couldn't stand him, they figured how to work together. >> and he was at the lbj library which perhaps the story has been over-romanticized, a guy that could get things done and hammer out deals. we're talking about the civil rights act. it's fair to ask would that type of legislation make it through a

congress today. i think the answer is probably no. something that grand and something that sweeping, and it's a reflection half a century later about how different politics are than they were 50 years ago. >> mark halperin, or even 15 years ago. it's gotten so much worse so quickly. >> the irony is the last three presidents all ran saying the perfect diagnosis of what was wrong and with a strong belief that they were the ones to fix it. and all three of them have failed to do it. it's quite a puzzling -- president clinton probably because he came from arkansas and was governor so long than the other two, he probably feels this and has a better feel for the heart beat of it than anybody in the country. and yet he can give a speech but he can't change it. >> and what's so fascinating, john heilemann, is that those three presidents that are our last three presidents. you have to go back to the early

1800s to find three presidents in a row being consecutively re-elected. and so you would think that would, you know, that would offer some sort of mandate. but it offers absolutely nothing but division. and it just begs the question, do americans have the kind of government they want? >> well, they clearly don't. and it's -- you know, really the fundamental fact of our political lives now is the polarization and division in washington is much greater than the polarization and division in the country so you go around the country -- >> you guys see that too. it's amazing. >> basically people in the country are moderate center left, center right. that's what you find when you talk to people. most people are in the middle somewhere. trending a little liberal or conservative. >> you guys see the same thing as us, right? i always say that's one of the biggest shocks in our book events and when we go out

whether we're talking to democrats or republicans, a room full of democrats, a room full of republicans, it is stunning how the same speech goes over the same exact way and you have people nodding their head at the same lines and laughing at the same jokes. and coming up to you saying the same thing after the speech. they want the same things. >> and extraordinary puzzled as to why it is when they talk to their neighbors who are sometimes of their party and sometimes not of their party, they all are extraordinarily puzzled. they feel they can find common grounds in their local institutions but they look at washington and see all this anger and ranker and inability to move forward on ways to change the country. they can't understand it. it's baffling to them. they want to understand how can this be? it doesn't seem that bad in my neighborhood or community but it's horrible there. why is that? >> right. >> well, this conversation can then perfectly transition to paycheck fairness.

the white house push for equal pay and equal work has been dealt a setback in the senate. a complete setback. republicans blocked the paycheck fairness act. seven votes short to advance the bill. democratic senator barbara mccullski, a sponsor of the bill, was outraged. >> i'll tell you what i'm tired of hearing. that somehow or another we're too emotional to talk. when we raise an issue, we're too emotional. well i am emotional. i'm so emotional about this. i am telling you, if we don't pass this bill, i'm going to press on. it brings tears to my eyes to know how women every single day are working so hard and are getting paid less. it makes me emotional to hear that. then when i hear all of these

phony reasons, some are mean and some are meaningless, i do get emotional. i get angry. i get outraged. i get volcanic. >> all right. president obama used much of his speech at the equal pay event on tuesday attacking republicans for opposing the measure. take a listen to this. >> so far republicans in congress have been gumming the works. but two years ago a minority of republicans blocked it from getting a vote. the congressional republicans seem to be continually embracing this notion that, you know what? you're on your own. here republicans in congress are dead set against it. this is about republicans seemingly opposing any efforts to even the playing field for working families. if republicans in congress want to prove me wrong, they can join us in this, the 21st century, and vote yes on the paycheck fairness act. >> "the washington post" this morning, ruth marcus called the

quotes, revolting equal pay demagoguery. before you start e-mailing the editor that there's been a terrible mistake, let me be clear. i support women receiving equal pay for equal work. i'd vote in the unlikely event someone elected me to congress. but the level of hyperbole of demagoguery that democrats have engaged here is revolting. the senate is up for grabs waving the bloody shirt of politics. i'd vote yes on the bill but i can understand the concerns of those who worry about floods of litigation and business decisions second guessed by federal judges. there is a difference between opposing the paycheck fairness act and opposing paycheck fairness. politicians who choose to

confuse the two may score a cheap political point, but it's not a fair one. so mika, ruth marcus obviously in support of this bill saying what a lot around the table were saying yesterday or a couple days ago that the president may have missed an opportunity to get something done though he was able to score points. and one of the lines i didn't hear that stands out was him talking about inviting the republicans into the 21st century. >> right. >> again, probably not going to get the wavering votes when you say that about somebody of the other party. but what should the president do now? what should democrats do now if they want to do more than score political points? >> well, looking ahead trying to actually get something done on this issue because i think first of all we need both sides to agree that there is a problem and not quibble over '77 or '88. if you dig in the numbers and talk to people out there, the situation is far worse than the averages that are out there.

and it needs to be dealt with. but you know what? i'm frustrated because i feel like the republicans have been so busy saying no and trying to repeal laws that have been there. >> so what should democrats do? >> they haven't actually thought about admitting -- we'll get there. admitting this exists. if both sides could admit this exists, maybe there could be some negotiation. i think there must have been a failure on the part of the democrats in terms of giving them something to work with. so to an extent i could see how after the event, it's like what would i help you out? i got to go back to my district. so to me it seems like there should be a bipartisan effort whether it be a summit or something else that really looks at paycheck fairness and all the different parts of it. >> right. >> because women leaving the workforce happens because of children, because of families,

because of -- if we've got a way to help women stay in jobs, if we've got a way to make sure they can grow at the same level -- and by the way, we work harder at this point, you all know that. it's got to be an option for us to figure out how to be validated for our work. and i think both sides should agree on that. i'm very sad about this. but i do think it's a failure on both sides. >> what was the gender gap in 2012? as far as women goes? do we know? five, six, seven? probably about seven points. it wouldn't hurt the republican party also to come forward and i understand what ruth marcus said and a lot of republicans, they do have a concern. there are a lot of republicans like me that know there's a serious problem. a really serious problem out there. and there is a disparity. if you're in the workforce for more than a week, you see there's a disparity out there. there's not equal pay for equal work. but at the same time like ruth marcus said, we don't want federal judges second guessing

every decision. and instead of growing the business we're fig youring how to defend when a woman doesn't get a promotion somewhere. that said, republicans should figure out a way to move forward with a piece of legislation that actually does offer a viable alternative to what the president's put out there. and maybe miracles happen. they figure out a compromise that actually helps working women. and by the way, cynically, might not actually hurt the republican brand either. >> might help the republican brand. it might also help president obama. they've got to decide on issues like that. do they -- are they willing to give the president some political victories. he thinks they aren't. so much so that ruth marcus felt he'd gone too far. overstating some of the statistics. no one wants to minimize the problem, but i think you've got to find republicans -- this goes to your point, mika -- you've got to find republicans who

believe in their heart this is a problem. >> there aren't many women in leadership in the republican party. so the republican party needs to find a candidate who can win and they're out there. there's so many out there. great women. great women in leadership who can really speak to these issues from their perspective. >> right now -- >> you're not going to find a republican woman standing up saying i think federal judges should have a bigger say in what goes on in small businesses in omaha, nebraska. you're just not going to find that. for good ideological sound reasons. >> maybe this isn't the right law. maybe this isn't the right bill, but there are women on the republican side that want to be paid equally for their job. to answer your question, 2012, the spread was 12 points. before that it was 14 points. so it was actually worse under mccain than it was under romney for republicans in the presidential election. >> so republicans really have an incentive to get something done here. >> you would think so.

>> let me ask you john heilemann, when a president goes out and does that when he did that the other day, do you think it's -- and do democrats -- >> are you talking about the event in the east room. >> yeah. when he were talking about dragging republicans into the 21st century, would democrats prefer to have this issue in 2014 hoping you get a 14% gender gap? would it be better for democrats to have this issue to beat republicans up on? or would it be better to actually have a bill passed? >> well, if there was any actual prospect of a bill being passed, it would be better for democrats to have the bill passed. though to democrats it's a false choice. because what they see is no likelihood of passage of any kind of legislation when the republican party won't en acknowledge that there's a problem. and it's a vicious cycle. but if the republican party is not going to acknowledge there's a problem, democrats say --

>> are you talking about grgs ma -- congressional republicans. >> if 234e republicans aren't going to admit there's a problem, there's zero prospect of passing a bill then they'd rather from the issue. and the republicans don't want to cooperate with the bill. so both parties now on this issue distrust the motives of the other side. and believe that no progress is possible. because republicans believe democrats would rather have the issue. democrats think they won't move on anything. and you're in a stalemate. >> which goes back to what bill clinton said before we launched this. >> at the same time you can argue or not all these different political aspects of it. you can't argue the math. and the math is worse. i've lived it. we all have. and the only way certain situations here were solved were when men got involved. really, really, really, quite frankly, men who put themselves on the line like you and our boss.

but for me looking at that event, i was there as you saw. i enjoyed it and there were about 250 women in the room. they weren't saying, yeah, political opportunity. they were in there feeling like finally someone understood what a big problem we have. in this country. and for republicans to then go after that and call it demagoguery, that's fine. maybe it is, but for them it's actually they're missing a political opportunity. >> totally agree. the only other thing i'll say about this is it's april of a congressional election year. this discussion might have been more fruitfully had in april of last year where both sides would not see it as such a political thing then. you know, a year later, six months from election day, both parties rightfully distrust the political motives of either side because they realize this is not the time when real legislation gets passed in washington. >> real opportunity for women. coming up on "morning joe," senator sherrod brown, actress

eddie falco, and bill kristol. up next the political playbook. but first here's brittany with a clek of the forecast. >> these are the spring days we've been waiting for. if you take a look at philadelphia, 68 degrees. d.c., 71 with just a few clouds. for new york we'll stay in the low 60s for today. but a cold front is going to move closer to us. so that's going to bring us a few clouds into tonight. even the chance of showers as we head into tomorrow. but across the nation you can see it's very quiet. we are checking out a few scattered showers moving through parts of minneapolis. also going to affect chicago as we head into later on this afternoon. temperatures in chicago, a bit above average for us. and if you take a look at phoenix, 98 degrees. pushing close to the triple digit mark. we'll see temperatures staying at 58 in seattle. tomorrow just as nice but we see the showers moving into the northeast.

stick with us. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. before using her new bank of america credit card, which rewards her for responsibly managing her card balance. before receiving $25 toward her balance each quarter for making more than her minimum payment on time each month. tracey got the bankamericard better balance rewards credit card, which fits nicely with everything else in life she has to balance. that's the benefit of responsibility. apply online or visit a bank of america near you.

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unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, every single day. i'll ask again... what's in your wallet? ♪ while he was being stabbed, he went and pulled the alarm and then got stabbed again. >> the fire alarm went off. i was walking over towards the exit, and there was blood all over the floor. >> as soon as me friend stepped in front of me to block me from the knife, i knew i was in danger. he was just stabbing random people. >> 27 past the hour. let's take a look at the morning papers. "the pittsburgh post gazette" a 16-year-old student charged as an adult in a stabbing incident

that wounded 20 students and a security guard. alex hribal. it was a scene of panic as the sophomore allegedly ran through the hallway slashing victims as he went. witnesses say the suspect had a blank expression on his face throughout the attack. a fast-thinking student pulled the fire alarm helping to evacuate the school. sam king subdued the attacker before others jumped into action. >> i came down the stairs and i saw the kid and mr. king was yelling at him. i didn't know why. i turned around and saw him stab sarge the police officer, and afterwards he went down and mr. king took off to take the kid down. i was right behind him. and we both jumped on him and immobilized him. >> just intingtively reacted like that? were you scared? were you nervous? >> yeah. i was looking for a garbage can to hit him with or something.

>> the student reportedly had two knives 8 to 10 inches in length. the fbi went to the suspect's home retrieving computers. the teen's attorney says he has no knowledge of hribal being bullied. >> they offer their condolences to everybody in this case. they did not foresee this coming at all. this is a nice young man. he's never been in trouble. he's not a loner. he works well with other kids at school. >> all right. let's go to politico now who will be following that investigation, willie. >> joining us now with a look at the politico playbook, the editor in chief there. eric holder says he is treated by congress in ways his predecessors never were. holder's comments to the national action network yesterday follow a particularly testy exchange this week with texas republican louie gohmert. >> i am pleased to note that the

last five years have been defined by significant strides and by lasting reforms. even in the face -- even in the face of unprecedented, unwarranted, ugly, and divisive adversity. if you don't believe that, you look at the way -- and forget about me. forget about me. you look at the way the attorney general of the united states was treated yesterday by a house committee. had nothing to do with me. what attorney general has ever had to deal with that kind of treatment? what president has ever had to deal with that kind of treatment? >> i think what we promise to do is to provide you and your staff with -- >> sir, i've read you what your department promised and it is inadequate. and i realize that contempt is not a big deal to our attorney general, but it is important that we have proper oversight. >> you don't want to go there,

okay? >> i don't want to go there? >> no. >> about the contempt? >> you should not assume that that is not a big deal to me. i think that it was inappropriate, unjust. but never think that was not a big deal to me. don't ever think this. this was all about the gun lobby and the desire to have -- >> so we've been trying to get to the bottom of fast and furious where people died, where at least a couple hundred mexicans died and we can't get the information to get to the bottom of that. so i don't need lectures from you about contempt. >> and i don't need lectures from you either. >> that was congressman gohmert with attorney general holder a couple of days ago. we'll get to that in a second, but if you go back to the comments at the national action network, what is the attorney general getting at there? >> he's really getting something on the table that's usually expressed in a background conversation, never in a public arena. which is he is held to a double standard. he was suggesting before the

civil rights group and president obama's held to a double standard subject to less respect, more contempt by the republican opposition. because of race. and so it was really a notable comment and it showed he took that exchange that you showed the clips of not just as a kind of testy one-off but he saw it as representative of something very real which is that republicans are less than noble in their motives and challenging them. that's not simple procedures of accountability. there's more going on there. >> because of racism. that's what -- i mean, holder, that's what he suggested yesterday, right? >> there's no question. i don't see any other reading of it. >> that's the only reading of it. he's right. no attorney general has been held in such contempt before unless you're talking about janet reno who's accused of murder after waco. you were there in the 1990s. >> i was, indeed. >> we were all there in the 1990s.

i was there in the 1990s, i could tell you what happened yesterday if louie gohmert were interviewing reno after waco or after ruby ridge, it would have been at least that tough, would it not? i'm not asking for your opinion. this is just a matter of history. and we always hear this about barack obama as well. oh, he's treated worse than anybody. really? talk to bill clinton. the clinton chronicles. hold on a second. clinton chronicles. people accused bill clinton of murdering political rivals in arkansas. national figures accused bill clinton of murder in arkansas. so when you're going to say that barack obama and eric holder, they've been treated worse than anybody in the history of american politics because of their race, well, you just -- you're not even going back 20 years let alone 200. go ahead. >> he was treated that way because republicans in washington regarded him as an

arkansas hay seed and not part of the party. everybody has their own victimhood narrative. you're right about that. sometimes the '90s are referred to as this period of great civility of american politics. those of us who were there, we know that wasn't the case. it was every bit as kind of vicious as the politics we're seeing here. >> by the way, i sat through government reform and oversight hearings that were unbelievably harsh. whether henry waxman was in charge or danbury ton was in charge. and what louie gohmert did and i don't know all of the background of it, but they have been trying to get information on fast and fear furious for years. that looks like a regular day in 1996. >> i totally agree with you about the treatment of president clinton and janet reno. one is the right wing media and

the left wing media. those loud partisan voices, they are more dominant in the town square than they were in the '90s. the balance is more geared towards them. and i think you have to respect the personal experience of the attorney general and the president and how they feel about it. i don't think you can just disregard it. >> i'm not -- >> i'm not saying you are. >> i'm not disregarding it as a white man. i'm just saying somebody with two eyes who was there in the 1990s and even if you weren't there in the '90s you could see how bill clinton and reno were treated. it looks pretty much the same. by the way, i won't even talk about the way richard nixon was treated, the way ed niese was treated, the way -- i mean, do we really want to go down this list? but i suppose robert bork was being treated that way because he had a beard. one said enough. people won't know why you got that beard. you look at the way george w. bush and dick cheney were accused of hating the constitution and ripping it to

shreds. it's hard ball. it's tough. i just -- again, and this goes past just what eric holder said yesterday. we've been hearing this for six years suggesting that there's race behind everything. no. no. there's really not. this is what happens in washington, d.c. it happened to bill clinton. it happened to george w. bush. it happened to robert bork. it happened to ed niese. it happened to richard nixon. it happens to people that step up to the states. the other side always wants to knock your head off. people say why is everybody tough. i could be an accountant in pensacola, florida, if you want me to. but if you step in the ring, they're going to knock off your head. don't be shocked when they try to land a punch in your face. >> regardless of race. >> regardless of race. >> i'll go back to what mark said a second ago. you can't dismiss the notion that president obama who had a particular variety of this which is to say a large number of republican who is said he was an

illegitimate president because he was born in kenya, there's anger and taking heads off and politics across all administrations in both directions, but the fact the president thinks there's a racial component to this when a large part of the republican party made the specific claim that he was not born in america and he was an african, the fact the president feels that way is not totally unreasonable. >> and i can tell you democrats have said horrific things about republicans without the racial component. and i can tell you in 1992 when bill clinton was elected, what were republicans saying? that he was a communist spy, that he spent his summers in the soviet union and was delegitimatized from the day he was in. >> drug runner. he was a drug runner in the airport. >> that was george h.w. bush, ran drugs in central america to bring crack to south central l.a. to enslave african-american youth. because he didn't want them to vote. this is not new in american politics.

but i do want to move on, willie, though, to the important story today. in fact, it may be the most important story that we cover in politics over the next decade. and it's number two in the politico play list. he's back. and he's better than ever. i speak, of course, john harris, of edwin edwards. >> one of halperin's favorites. he went down to his home turf. he's been covering edwards for the last 30 years for his -- what looks to be his last stand. he's 86. he's got a newborn infant. great picture on the cover of politico. edwards using the stroller as kind of half stroller, half walker as he tries to get a seat in congress. >> a great american. >> incredible. >> he just -- you know, information here. >> no. >> he first got election in 1965. his friend lbj called him up

with congratulations. i mean, a convicted felon. >> come on, joe. that was 12 years ago. you're going to dredge up the past? come on, going back there. can't a man pay his due and get on with life? >> exactly. i'm only saying this because it led to the greatest bumper sticker in the history of modern politics when he ended up running against david for governor. >> vote for the crook. >> vote for the crook. it's important. >> okay. >> and it was. >> and it was. >> and he did. and he won. >> and he won. you wanted that man on the wall. in that race, you needed that man on the wall. >> that's for you. >> mika, have you met david duke? >> i haven't, sorry. i missed out on that. >> so much to say. >> just a great state. >> politico's john harris, thank you. coming up a look at "time." we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] this is karen and jeremiah. they don't know it yet, but they're gonna fall in love, get married, have a couple of kids,

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♪ the state of iowa hosts a highly watched u.s. senate race this year. and the republican primary, joni ernst slightly leads mark jacobs. she had this ad only to be countered by a lesser known candidate. >> i'm joni ernst.

i grew up castrating hogs on a farm, so when i get to washington i'll know how to cut pork. >> hi. i'm bob. i'm running. running for iowa's open seat in the u.s. senate. term limits for congress need to become the 28th amendment to our u.s. constitution. i believe in every aspect of our constitution which even a baby knows includes a second amendment. if you are the sexual predator that murdered my sister and come to my front door to hurt my daughters, i'm going to use my glock to blow your balls off. now, do not confuse me for the candidate for senate. >> is that real? is that funny or die? >> no. that's real. that is real. >> wow. it's unfunny or die. >> that is real, and i think that will cut through the clutter. >> john tower. >> yes. >> john tower. we need to send casey hunt to

iowa in her next senate play. i want to hear more. right? >> that will cut through the noise. >> can we do that? >> i'll tell you why. >> just wait for the next one. >> castration, glocks. is that what they call iowa nice? >> i was going to say. new iowa. >> this is the new iowa. this is not your father's iowa. wow, willie. that guy, also, he turns to the camera, i mean, he knows -- he's like o'reilly. he knows how to control that. >> how about asserted that the baby knows about the second amendment. >> well, that's what your literary teacher would call foreshadowing. the glock. you know a glock is coming out. wow. >> i like the little glint off his teeth too. >> it was good. the kids are going to love that ad. wow. up next --

>> there it goes. >> look at this face. that's the face of -- >> that's the face of your next united states senator. >> to blow your balls off dpp he really say that? >> he did. >> okay. rideca jones is here next on "morning joe." salesperson #1: so, again, throwing in the $1,000 fuel reward card is really what makes it like two deals in one. salesperson #2: actually, getting a great car with 42

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and let's say congratulations. >> thank you, joe. >> you guys are talking about -- i like that dress. very colorful. okay, so. i had fun a couple weeks ago talking about pot. i'm now going to -- the cover story. talking about the rise of fake pot. i even -- even a dope like me knows that this stuff is probably a lot more dangerous than the real thing, right? >> that's exactly right. and it's a serious topic partly because -- partly because of the legalization of real pot that the synthetic cannabis that are coming on the market are more of a risk. they're chiefer than real pot but they're dangerous chemical

compounds. >> they're legal everywhere because the chemists do it in a legal way. but you don't know what you're doing. >> they elude cops even because of the shifting chemical formulas. a lot are marketed in china. they're under the terms herbal incense or potpourri. they say not safe for human consumption but they're sold at gas stations and corner stores. and they're cheaper than real pot. pot remains amongst tenth graders as the drug of choice. but when they say this they think it's safe. but it can lead to fatalities. >> one of the problems is this is an unregulated substance. those of us who think pot should be legal is one of the benefits is it will be regulated. why can't this be regulated? what's the obstacle to government being able to put down controls on this and know what's it in, et cetera? >> part of it is the slippery slope of the formulas. there's no one agreed upon, this

is the synthetic cannibinoid. as soon as one becomes legal, they tweak the formula. and suddenly it gets under the radar. one of the interesting things that lawmakers are now trying to do who are now taking this on, it's harder for them to attack the substances involved. they're trying to get ahold of the marketing and the way it's sold. and make that the point of contention. so that at least these things can be regulated on me market. >> radhika, does a teenager who buys king kong, k-2, spice, whatever they're called, do they know it's synthetic pot or do they think it's just weed? >> i think both things are true. and that's what we want to draw attention to with this story is talk to your teenager who probably isn't aware of these things about the fact these are synthetics. this isn't real pot.

it's not natural pot. and it has a capacity to do real harm. partly because there's just not a lot of testing on these drugs. >> all right. the latest issue of "time" is the rise of fake pot. radhika jones, always great to see you. thank you. >> there's also a great article in here jon meacham writes about george h.w. bush too. >> thank you, radhika. we'll be right back. can you start tomorrow? yes sir. alright. let's share the news tomorrow. today we failrly busy. tomorrow we're booked solid. we close on the house tomorrow. i want one of these opened up. because tomorow we go live... it's a day full of promise. and often, that day arrives by train. big day today? even bigger one tomorrow. when csx trains move forward, so does the rest of the economy. csx. how tomorrow moves.

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just like yesterday. the great heroism of the civil rights movement of all the people willing to give their lives because they believed tomorrow could be different from yesterday. people can endure any hardship, they can make any sacrifice, they can undergo anything as long as they believe deep down inside that they can overcome. >> this is zola demarco. she is six years old. she addresses this to mrs. h.r. clinton. and she says, in 2016 would you be -- would you prefer to be called madam president or mrs. president? >> wow.

to that question, hillary clinton got a one-minute standing ovation. and then never answered. very nice. welcome back to "morning joe." joining us on set, editor of the weekly standard bill kristol. congratulations. i think we have a picture. >> really? >> please show me a picture. i want to see a picture of the new baby. >> oh. look at this. >> my daughter's teacher is his daughter and that's her baby. adorable. what's his name? >> leo. >> he's beautiful. what's carly going to do now though? because she's probably taking time off. >> maternity leave, it's called. >> it's called maternity leave. >> educate me on what women need to flourish in the workforce. >> we're not engaged under war on women in the kristol families. despite being republicans. >> you don't say get yourself back to work? >> no, no, no. bill does not say to his daughter what you say to people who work for you when they have a child.

all right. in austin, texas, we've got nbc news chief white house correspondent and host of "the daily rundown," chuck todd. by the end of day yesterday, four presidents will have gone down talking about their historic work and talking about lbj's historic work down at the presidential library. >> yes. it's the civil rights summit which comes to a close there in austin, texas. president obama and president george w. bush will address today while carter did on tuesday. but last night it was bill clinton's turn to talk about the act. 50 years after lyndon johnson signed it into law. >> i tell you what i'm tired of hearing -- >> well, that was barbara mikulski, i believe. talking about the paycheck fairness act. she said she was emotional.

we have it now. take a look. here's bill clinton. >> we're here because the civil rights act and the voting rights act made it possible for jimmy carter, bill clinton, and barack obama to be president of the united states. we celebrate the passage of these laws at this place because of president johnson's pivotal, brilliant leadership in passing them. just as abraham lincoln stewarded the amendment through congress, johnson embodies the power of the presidency to redeem the promise of america. i am concerned that on this 50th anniversary, these divisions and the lack of a spirit sof coming together. put us back in the dust bend of old history.

we have too many current challenges to waste a day trying to recreate a yesterday we're better off done with. >> all right. bill kristol, if only. >> if only what? that was a cryptic comment there. >> we could come together the way we did in the 1990s. we heard eric holder say he's the first attorney general treated this way suggesting it's because he's a african-american. i reminded everybody we were rough on janet reno. >> and they were rough on john ashcroft. >> exactly. and robert bork. he was attacked because of his beard. i mean, you could go all the way back, but bill clinton talking about nothing getting done in washington. we've been talking about equal pay for women and this bill that has crashed on the rocks like every bill that's crashed on the

rocks. it wouldn't be a bad idea for republicans to come up with their version. then everybody work it out in the middle. but that just never -- it just doesn't happen these days in washington. >> it is against the law to discriminate on grounds -- >> but that law is broken every day. >> i don't believe that's the case. "a," i think women can assert their rights if they're discriminated against. "b," if you look at the statistics of education and hours worked women have 97% of the salaries of men. and younger women have slightly higher salaries than men. >> that's because the young men are playing video games. >> actually, the real problem if you actually talk to a serious economist about our workforce, the people doing badly and it's a terrible thing are young men. especially young less educated men, works class men in their 20s and 30s. globalization hasn't helped them in the types of jobs produced. they are -- they have very social problems. much more than women. that's a fact. that's a fact. so the notion that the war on women or pay discrimination women is in the top 20 problems

in the united states is frankly ridiculous. i say this as a big fan of women. i told joe this was a terrible show the other day because you weren't here. now i'm trying desperately to climb out of my hole here. >> there's some legitimate points that you made, but there's some i disagree with. and i would like to hash this out. because i think the fact that it's illegal to discriminate means nothing for women in the wor work place for women. from the testimonials i've gotten from people in the aftermath of writing my book about this are that the numbers are far worse. they're lilly ledbetter numbers. women are getting paid half of what their counterparts make. you know why because they can do it and nobody knows about pit. >> two points. others have introduced the republican alternative to try to

strengthen the law in ways you think are necessary. wasn't the first law that president obama signed was the lilly ledbetter act. so why suddenly in 2014 when the obama administration was floundering and they're try k to appeal to their base they go back to this decision. they passed the legislation they thought was necessary in 2009 and 2010. i'd like to see someone explain in legislation. i don't like -- if you want an example of the war on women, the good news is that people don't think that way anymore. a wonderful woman, african-american and literally an african-american, came from africa here. human rights crusader, women's right crusader. just had her honorary degree revoked yesterday under pressure from islamist groups.

really a disgrace. >> why? >> a disgraceful statement by the -- >> why's that? >> apparently she's controversial. we didn't know, but she's been critical of aspects of islam. >> because she's been speaking up for women across the globe? >> why is she critical of islam? a lot of countries don't treat women well. she was not treated well. she's made that one of her aspects of her human rights advocacy. so caves under pressure, pulls the award. no one thinks it's because she's a woman, i don't think. >> no. i'm going to bring up barbara mikulski and run that sound bite just in response. i think we could argue this and you can make points but wouldn't it be better for the republicans and democrats to actually put on the table things that address the problem that does exist, right? it does exist.

we agree to that. >> no. it does not exist in places that i've had some effect on. and it doesn't exist for a lot of people i know. it may exist elsewhere. if it does, they should have targeted legislation to address it. a lot is done at the state level. washington, d.c. is run by democrats. is there a problem? and they can pass whatever they want locally and statewide to address this alleged discrimination. if there's some horrible problem, let them pass it. where is the legislation? shouldn't. >> first of all i don't think there are company heads that say i'm going to discriminate against women. it is there. for example i know a major magazine editor when this person was hired to take over the magazine immediately looked at the salaries and there was complete discrepancy between men and women. the first thing this person did was fix that. >> good for him or her.

>> this is what the republicans are doing though. they're firing back with criticism. firing back with some sort of response that it doesn't exist. firing back with why you should deal with it instead of let's work together. i mean, it does exist. >> i believe there should be strength in the current laws for no discrimination. we should have joni ernst on. the woman i hope who wins the nomination is iowa. >> have you seen her independent ad? >> of course. yeah. it's an excellent ad, yeah. >> let's go right now to barbara mikulski then read from ruth marcus. >> i'm tired of hearing that somehow or another we're too emotional when we talk. when we raise an issue, we're too emotional. well, i am emotional. i am so emotional about this, i'm telling you if we don't pass this bill, i'm so emotional i'm going to press on.

it brings tears to my eyes to know how women every single day are working so hard and are getting paid less. then when i hear all of these phony reasons, some are mean and some are meaningless, i do get emotional. i get angry. i get outraged. i get volcanic. >> in "the washington post" this morning, ruth marcus characterizes the president's comments as quote, revolting equal pay demagoguery. before you start checking the byline at the top of this piece and e-mailing there's a mistake. let me be clear, i support that women receive equal pay for equal work. i'd vote for the act in the likely event someone elected me to congress, but the level of hyperbole of demagoguery the democrats have engaged in here is revolting. it's entirely understandable, of course. the senate is up for grabs. waving the bloody shirt of

unequal. but i understand b the concerns of those who worry about floods of litigation and businesses second guessing by federal judges. there is a difference between opposing the paycheck fairness and act opposing paycheck fairness. politicians who confuse the two, it's not a fair one. chuck todd is with us from austin, texas. perhaps a surprising take from ruth marcus at t"the washington post" about this. how is the white house approaching this debate here? clearly it didn't make its way through the senate. i don't think the president ever thought it would. what's the latest on this issue? >> this has been if you look at what they've been doing on particularly economic issues focused on women, this is all part of the election year strategy for the democratic party. so, you know, this is -- i think ruth is just being very clear eyed about what this week has

been about and what it's not. and that's what this has been about. this has been about giving the democrats something to run on. by the way, this is a preview of what the fall campaign is going to look like. you're going to have democrats having one conversation with their set of voters about issues that they know do fire up democrats whether it's raising the minimum wage, whether it is paycheck fairness, whether it is some social issue. then republicans will have a totally separate conversation about health care and antagonizing the president, things like that. then it just becomes this who's going to fire up their base more. and in you look at this week in one hand that the white house got put on the defensive a little bit about the salaries at the white house but this entire week for them and the entire bully pulpit, they did have an entire week about this topic and didn't have a conversation about

health care. so in that sense, politically, it's a win for the white house. this is what they're trying to do. have other conversations about economic issues that don't have anything to do with health care as a way of firing up the democratic base. >> all right. well, this conversation will be continued. this conversation will continue. >> okay. >> would you like to say something else? >> no. >> no. >> no really. >> the floor is open. >> i want to go to iowa. >> okay. well, new iowa polling shows a tight race for democrats. in the latest vote, joe biden is falling into third place behind elizabeth warren and hillary clinton. there's no clear leader between republicans. iowa also hosts a highly watched senate race this year. joni ernst has a slight edge on

mark jacobs. 25% to 23%. recently ernst made headlines with this campaign ad. >> it's a good one. >> i'm joni ernest. i grew up castrating hogs on an iowa farm, so when i get to washington, i'll know how to cut pork. >> isn't even the most shocking ad in the race. now bob quaist is turning heads with an ad of his own. >> hi. i'm bob. i am running. running for iowa's open seat in the u.s. senate. term limits for congress need to become the 28th amendment to the u.s. constitution. i believe in every aspect of our constitution which even a baby knows includes the second amendment. if you are the sexual predator who murdered my sister lynnette and you come to my front door to do harm to my girls, i'm going to use my glock to blow your balls off. now please do not confuse me with iowa's republican candidate for u.s. senate.

>> okay, chuck. well, iowa nice out the window. >> look at chuck. >> well, i don't even know where to begin. other than i think he's alienating the iowa state fans. he was wearing a university of iowa sweatshirt, to make that clear. obviously we should note that. look, this race is fascinating to me in a couple instances. i think joni ernest if she gets the nomination, the race gets put into play. and remember what's interesting about iowa if there is a woman nominee for the u.s. senate, iowa is one of two states -- congratulations, iowa -- that has never sent a woman to congress. never. so that would be interesting to see that where the republicans have the nominee for u.s. senate in there and if that does at all

help the republicans get a swing vote that frankly the state's very well organized. the iowa democratic party is a machine of sorts. this is a swing state where organization gets the democrats a two or three point advantage that they normally wouldn't have if everything were equal. but their party app ra the us is just frankly so much better than the republican party. so ernst very much intrigues me as a candidate. >> as far as women go in iowa, of course we all remember hillary clinton, third place in the iowa primary. caucus. almost fatal. >> their senate race is interesting in a couple ways. two attractive republican candidates. joni ernst, an iraq war vet. and jaib cobs running against an unimpressive trial lawyer that went to texas filmed saying

elect me and i'll prevent tort reform from going anywhere. republicans have a lot of good candidates in these states. a lot of younger candidates, fair number of women, diverse backgrounds, fair number of veterans. i kind of think joni ernst is a better candidate than ernst. iowa has good republican governors to be elected. people are underestimating how much -- how high the odds are of republicans picking up seats in states like iowa, michigan, colorado. i would say even virginia. purple states that are obama carried. >> so mika, you started talking about barack obama in 2007 earlier than other people did. you've been talking about elizabeth warren for some time. >> we're going to have her on in two weeks, yeah. >> and interesting that she's now jumped ahead of joe biden. >> those numbers are hard to -- but, you know, i think there's -- i don't know. i mean, i'll put it on a piece of paper, but i predict she's going to be a primary player. >> she's signed a letter urging

hillary clinton to run for president. >> that's fine. >> i think if -- >> she should go for it. they're all so intimidated. >> there's no doubt that if secretary clinton decides not to run that she will become the democratic front runner, i think. >> chuck, chuck, chuck? >> no. >> you think she should follow in barack obama's footsteps, take on the invincible hillary clinton. you have to beat someone. >> chuck? >> look, i don't buy the idea that all of a sudden elizabeth warren is a front runner. i think she would be a player. but don't underestimate joe biden if hillary doesn't run. there's a lot of sort of democratic establishment vote that is simply with hillary clinton in a lot of these polls. if she were out of the race, i guarantee you biden would be up 15 points on elizabeth warren in the same poll if you didn't have her just simply out of name recognition, loyalty to the party on that front. and i just -- you know, what i'm

trying to figure out, if hillary clinton doesn't run b and i'm obviously she looks obviously she's probably going to run and then biden won't. but if the doesn't run, explain to me how some democrat runs against joe biden without looking like they're running against barack obama and how that is good politics in a democratic primary. >> john heilemann? >> it is very, very, very difficult to, i think, walk that line. >> i got to say i think joe biden is a great guy and would be a real candidate. but i have to say, democratic party really wants to have a woman as its nominee. she has incredible fund raising strength and populist energy at the base of the party. and as much as i like joe biden -- >> you're talking about hillary clinton. >> no. i'm talking about elizabeth warren if there was no hillary clinton. >> what about claire mckas cccc? >> yes. but she has a message. >> she has a message that appeals to the democratic base. the base as i said wants a woman and she has national fund

raising ability that nobody else has apart from hillary clinton in the democratic party right now. >> this is going to happen organically. >> i agree. there's no saying that if one woman doesn't run then pick the next. let a lot of candidates run. >> i'm talking about the establishment. i know you like the idea of democratic disarray. we'll discount your view. >> well, i honestly think claire mccaskill is more qualified to be the nominee than hillary clinton or elizabeth warren. she's done more in the senate than either of them. >> she'd be thrilled to have your backing. what a powerful endorsement that will make. >> there are people in new york state that have said that if hillary doesn't run, then gillibrand run. but there are a lot of really good qualified candidates. i think, though, elizabeth warren is going to have something in 2016 that both parties are going to be hungry for.

and that is somebody outside the washington establishment. she scares people in washington. she scares people on wall street. and you get that candidate in the democratic caucus in iowa with a little bit of wind behind her, and -- >> my lord. >> it's a prairie fire. and the same thing is the case on the republican side too. people that are sitting three years out saying it's bush versus clinton do not understand washington. they might understand washington, they don't understand where the country is right now. >> think about her trajectory too. she created the financial protection bureau, got kicked out of washington and then worked her way back in by runni running for senate. >> i do agree, though, what bill said. if we're talking about a woman in the democratic party most qualified to be president of the united states, claire mccaskill's in first place. she has done so much in her life. >> you mean apart from hillary

clinton. >> no. >> no. >> mccaskill is more qualified to be the president of the united states than hillary clinton? >> yes. just as qualified. >> more qualified? >> other than hillary. come on. >> i'll say she's just been a more impressive member of the senate an hillary clinton was. and hillary clinton was a failure as secretary of state. what achievement, one sentence, what has hillary clinton done? what's her achievement that qualifies her to be president of the united states. >> i'm not going to do a hillary clinton ad. >> you know, the thing is -- >> i'm not hostile to her. i respect her, but she's no more qualified than an awful lot of governors and senators who have made it on their own i would add and have done more in senate or governorships than her. >> there is a question to ask what was hillary clinton's main achievement as secretary of state. what's her one big achievement? >> i think that will be when her book comes out in june, that's one of the questions that book

is going to try to answer. because she recognizes it's a question a lot of people will ask. >> so is there an obvious -- chuck todd. what would the clinton campaign say is the great achievement of hillary clinton as secretary of state? >> i think that they wouldn't try to do it as one issue. i think they would say she was pushing her passions of expanding women's rights. she'd talk about burma. she'd talk about the de-escalation that they had in gaza preventing at the time when they thought there was going to be an escalation in gaza getting egypt too back off. but look. is there a one big crowning achievement where you see her right there and then in a crisis moment as secretary of state especially compared to, for instance, john kerry. i mean in many ways the problem she's got about her four years as secretary of state is the

comparison to john kerry who's been -- he throws himself into every controversy. and clinton would get involved, but she played a much more quiet role. she never liked to play as public a role as kerry. so i think that comparison is something she has to deal with on the trail. >> it'll be hard because the republicans will say during benghazi, where were you. >> i think they will say -- i think they will say that she did a -- she had a big role in repairing america's battered image around the world through her travels around the world. >> before we go to break, don't you think since we're talking about claire -- >> she's great. >> no. come on. >> what? >> i think you have something to say. i owe you an apology for not going down to st. louis. how's that? and i'm going to go out -- >> she doesn't believe you, joe. >> i'm going to wear a cardinals uniform and i'm going to do, like, ground crew stuff. i'll be one of those guys. >> i think you need to go

further. that's not enough after what you did. >> what do you mean what i did? >> bring her roses. >> i will. >> this is going to be ugly tomorrow and the next time she's on. >> no. >> but she's also said republicans don't tell the truth. so she's not surprised. i'm going to do everything i can do. >> i don't know. you know, i got kids. i'm sorry. something came up. listen. really quickly, john kerry -- speaking of john kerry, watch out for john kerry. this guy, this guy is thinking in the back of his head right now. he hasn't told me, i know politicians. he's thinking he can run again. john kerry in 2016. i'm telling you. you're laughing. i'm deadly serious. >> i agree. i think you're right, joe. >> yeah. chuck bb if a couple of things break his way over the next year, john kerry will be in iowa and will run for president again. >> can we take a shot of the control room, please? i think you just lost john tower. he's been trying to get you to go to break for ten minutes. ten minutes.

>> thank you so much 37 chuck we'll watch you on "the daily rundown" starting at 9:15 today from austin, texas. >> sorry, chuck. >> it's not my fault. >> was it this or this? >> put it down. we've got enough from you on that. okay? democratic senator sherrod brown joins us. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. salesperson #1: the real deal is the passat tdi clean diesel gets up to 795 highway miles per tank. salesperson #2: actually, we're throwing in a $1,000 fuel reward card. we've never done that. that's why there's never been a better time to buy a passat tdi clean diesel. husband: so it's like two deals in one? salesperson #2: exactly. avo: during the first ever volkswagen tdi clean diesel event, get a great deal on a passat tdi, that gets up to 795 highway miles per tank. and get a $1,000 fuel reward card. it's like two deals in one. hurry in and get a $1,000 fuel reward card and 0.9% apr for 60 months on tdi models.

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♪ from ohio, senator sherrod brown. who are the indians looking this year? >> they're looking all right. 92 wins last year. we'll see. wanted to say one thing before i start. our tenth wedding anniversary. best decision i ever made. leave it to others' judgment about her decision, but my beloved wife connie shultz who has been on a number of msnbc shows for what that's worth. it's our tenth anniversary and i get to fly home tonight.

>> that is great news, i like that. mark halperin, first question. >> the koch brothers are something the senators are talking about. could you explain the midterm election. what is the point of invoking the koch brothers? >> well, because they're -- we've never seen anything like this. this started in 2012. my race in ohio, koch brothers, wall street, oil companies spent $40 million more than any race in the history of the country, i believe. outside money coming into detroit trying to defeat me. they're doing even more of that this year. it's what they want. they want tax cuts. they want weaker environmental laws. they're spending that kind of money and it's important that democrats point out that this small group of people on the far righting that stand to benefit from buying congress, that's what they're trying to do. i think when people understand that, people are going to recoil. because people don't like the

agenda of more tax cuts for the rich, more power for wall street, more power for the oil industry. i think the more people know, the more they're going to vote against those interest groups that do that. >> if their ideas are bad, can they fool the american people by spending money? >> their ideas are bad, but they're not talking about it. they don't say what they want to do to help the oil industry and cut taxes on the rich and let wall street continue to deregulate wall street. they don't say that in their ads. they run different kinds of ads saying different kinds of things like they did in my race. and it's clear that the public knows their agenda as they figured out over the course of four or five months mitt romney's agenda. that it was all about helping the upper 1%. then for the elections in 2014 look a whole lot different than they might otherwise. >> thomas roberts. >> senator brown, let me ask you about what it means for the unemployed in the country right now. we had chuck schumer on monday and he predicted here on the set

that the extension of jobless benefits would pass through the senate. but the outlook remains cloudy on the house side of things. what's your prediction? >> my prediction is the same as minimum wage. that we're going to continue to fight to do the right thing on minimum wage, on extending unemployment benefits. i'm hopeful that enough republicans go to john boehner and say we need to do this. the question is this. john boehner wakes up every morning. does he decide he wants to be the speaker of the tea party or the speaker of the u.s. house of representatives. that's the oath he took. and if he decides to be the speaker of the house, he brings these bills to the floor, minimum wage extension of unemployment compensation and they pass. >> john heilemann here. we just had chuck todd make the relevant point i think that we're go i think to spend the next few months with republicans and democrats having different conversations trying to rile up their respective bases. if democrats are going to be running on economic populist

issues to try to get democrats to the polls, republicans will be running on health care to get to the polls, who wins that battle of enthusiasm? >> well, we win that battle because what we're doing is actually something that matters. i know it's covered, always covered as a horse race when democrats are trying to drive the vote on minimum wage and jobs and pay equity. republicans are doing something else. but the fact is we are trying to advance issues that matter to a huge number of people in this country. and i would argue on health care. a woman came up to me. she was the home schooler from the most conservative part of ohio. she came up to me at one of my coffees and said thank you for the affordable care act. my son is diabetic, 15 years old. we've tried and she said precisely 34 times to get insurance and finally we have it because of the affordable care act. those stories are going to start to begin to seep into the american people. ohioans have health insurance

today that didn't have it before. republicans are going to be seen as trying to take these things away from people. preventive care that earn soos have, the hundred thousand ohioans on their parents' health plan, the fact you can't cut people off because they have pre-existing conditions. we'll win on those issues had the more they're talked about. republicans just want to talk about obamacare at large. >> i was talking to terry mcauliffe yesterday because he called to wish joe a happy birthday. i asked him to be on the show and he says i'm moving health care across the state of vermont. senator brown, happy anniversary. >> thank you. >> thank you so much for being on the show today. >> thanks always. coming up, the cofounder of pixar ed catmull and clay risen. that and more when "morning joe" returns. [ yodeling plays ]

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up next, how to tap into your imagination and find true inspiration. the author of creativity, inc. and president of pixar animation, ed catmull is here. we'll be right back.

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♪ to infinity and beyond! >> here we go! ♪ >> show time. >> you know, i speak whale. come back! >> it's just as well. he might be hungry. >> they eat krill. >> run away! >> oh, look, krill. >> so reese said you're buzzlight year. >> did you fix buzz? ♪ [ speaking spanish ] >> sort of.

>> all right. here with us now, i could watch that for an hour, the president of pixar animation and president of disney animation, ed catmull who's the author of "creativity, inc.: overcoming the unseen forces that stands in the way". >> and let's look at the "toy story" series as we look and hear about creativity and managing creative people, how to get the best out of people and avoid burnout. that was your real concern at the beginning of this series, right? >> the very beginning was just how to even make the film at all. and we did get burnt out. and we almost got shut down. >> right. >> but what we found at that time was that while we had a spectacular success, when i looked at other creative groups, they all fell apart afterwards. >> right. >> so the real issue is how do you keep it going? so the whole charter became the

next few years, how do i keep this going? and all along the way we kept having disasters, and we were trying to get a better and easier and faster. >> you actually said during "toy story 2" you felt guilty about the burnout, the health problems, about driving -- about everybody being driven to perfection. and you tried to figure out the perfect balance, right? >> it was what went wrong, what did we miss in doing that. but i feel like "toy story 2" was our defining moment. because we placed the quality of the film above everything else. we had to figure how to do things better within that bar, the bar we set. >> it's interesting. you talk about sort of the perverse side effects of talking about telling your team, take risks. at the end of "toy story 3," you actually were very complimentary of them. and there was a strange reaction

from some on the team about thinking that this was a sign that you all had played it safe. explain that. >> well, actually, i had a talk with steve jobs once while we were making "toy story 3." i said there's an odd thing here. we're not having a major zast per. and steve says, uh-oh, you got to watch out. i said i'm not worried about it because the next ones will have disasters. but the team was affronted to say there wasn't disasters, because it was still really hard. but it was the only one that didn't have a major disaster along the way. >> i can tell you this. my kids are far apart in years, have got a 26-year-old to a 5-year-old. i can tell you my 10-year-old and my 26-year-old when "toy story 3" came out, obviously younger, both cried at the end. my little girl still doesn't like to watch the end of the movie. i mean, it was such a moving,

moving show and series. it's unbelievable. >> you make a great example about your own family and the kids and how it is so generational, ed. you have raised millions of kids on your films. and now they're going to have their own families and start. how's the technology changed in advance to your own wonder through your years? >> the first 20 years it was to the point where we couldn't do it at all. but the last 20 years was to say, okay, that's going to keep on changing. what do we do as a group? and our whole motivation is to make films that touch the people, touch world culture. and frankly what i wanted to do with the book was to say there are things that we went through, that we learned which i think are applicable far beyond an entertainment industry. >> so great technology company, great story telling company. just focus on the technology for a second. what's next? what are the tools that are coming online that are going to allow you to tell stories more vividly? >> well, right now the hard work

continues to change, the software's changing and the skillset of the people are changing. there's nothing stable in this. i learned a long time ago i'm actually pretty poor at predicting the future. rather is to say we're going off in some direction, and it will keep wandering off in various directions. we'll take advantage of whatever the technology is and drive what we can see. >> meanwhile you're riding "frozen." it's tremendous. did you know it was going to be that big of a hit? did you know it was that special when putting it together? >> in the last nine months of it we knew it was amazing. we knew it would do better than "tangled" but we didn't know it would become the highest grossing animated film of all time. >> my younger kids, being dragged to "frozen," who saw it coming? this thing is huge. >> great sound track. >> the book is "creativity, inc." ed catmull, thanks so much. great to meet you. still ahead, clay risen

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♪ oh the times they are a changin' ♪ joining us now, the author

of "the bill of the century." very good to have you on the show this morning. perfect timing. >> thanks so much. so why was the bill, the civil rights bill, the bill of the century? >> look, this was the first time really the federal government got behind an embattled minority. the bill, as martin luther king said, it cashed the check that had been written, the promissory note, that had been written by the united states with the end of slavery. it reconciled all of those wrongs that had been left after the civil war. >> anybody that studied history at the time knows that jfk was wringing his hands and striking the perfect ball. lbj was the bull in the china shop. why the difference? >> i think there are nuances. kennedy created the bill. kennedy, you're right, was wringing his hands for a long time. he came around at the end. he created the bill, started pushing it through. >> would kennedy have passed the bill? >> i think he would have passed

a thinner bill, accepted compromise. where johnson's great achievement was not only calling for the bill and pushing for it but pushing for the full bill. he said, i have to have exactly what is written and that's what he got. >> in terms of the big characters, lbj, mlk, martin luther king, but you focus on the other unsung heroes. talk about the others who don't get credit normally as much in history? >> one of the guy, gets a lot of credit, i think in general, the republicans don't get enough cred credit, but bill macculloch, a conservative from ohio, abolitioni abolitionists, on civil rights, strong, had been for decades. when the bill came up he helped push it in a way that made it acceptable to other conservatives so that people who are -- you know, they're not racist, but not big government people, not really into the idea of a major program, were

nevertheless able to get behind this bill and support it. >> and mike mansfield, too? >> mike mansfield, central. in a way unjansonnian, because not making them uncomfortable but setting a stage, so people who had never voted for civil rights, didn't really understand it, were comfortable coming to the table and getting behind this bill. >> you also examine the conscious of the country at this time and the fact that johnson wouldn't have been able to do this if we hadn't been in a constant state of mourning, all the time, and looking at national tragedies that were taking away leaders left and right? >> that's true. 1963 and '64 were really this kind of roller coaster. he were birmingham, which was frightening, but also very instiering, but then you had -- and the march on washington, but you also had the med givers assassination and kennedy and all that put the country in a

heightened emotional state. >> all right, the book is -- >> can i ask quickly, the birmingham church bombing, wasn't that the moment that white america woke up, outside of the deep south and said, enough? >> i think if they weren't already awakened by birmingham, by the protests and king's marches in the spring, yeah. the bombing was just so ho horrific. four girls were killed on a sunday morning for nothing. i mean, there's no justification, and i think you're right. anybody who was on the fence came over at that point. >> the book is "the bill of a century." clay, thank you very much. still ahead from tony soprano's wife to a drug addicted nurse, edie falco is here. keep it right here on "morning joe." ♪ and i got the tools ♪ to do it my way ♪ i got a lock on equities

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good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. you're looking at new york city. last night we have some news, in terms of the lbj presidential library in austin. by the end of the day, several presidents had marked the day at the lbj library, president obama and president george w. bush, will speak later today, while president carter addressed the conference tuesday. last night it was president clinton's turn to talk about the importance of the civil rights

act, 50 years after lyndon johnson signed it into law. >> we're here because the civil rights act and the voting rights act made it possible for jimmy carter, bill clinton and barack obama to be president of the united states. we celebrate the passage of these laws at this place, because of president johnson's pivotal, brilliant leadership, in passing them. just as abraham lincoln stewarded the 13th amendment through congress, johnson's leadership embodies the power of the presidency to redeem the promise of america. i am concerned that on this 50th anniversa anniversary, these divisions and the lack of a spirit of coming together put us back in the dust

bend of old history. we have too many current challenges to waste today trying to re-create a yesterday that we're better off done with. >> hmm. >> yep. so -- wilwillie, obviously president clinton's been frustrated by the lack of -- of anything substantial coming out of washington for years now, and it's hard for people not in washington today to figure out how you can have a president and a congress that gets so little done. he couldn't stand newt gingrich, newt gingrich couldn't stand him. couldn't figure out how to work together. >> and at the lbj library. perhaps the story is over romanticizes, but newt could get things done, hammer out deals and talking about the 50th anniversary of the civil rights

act and it's fair to act would that type of legislation make it through a congress today? i think the answer is probably, no. something that grand and something that sweeping, and it's a reflection half a century later about how different politics are than they were 50 years ago. >> mark halperin, or even 15 years ago? >> it's gotten so worse so quickly. >> the irony, the last three presidents, they all ran saying, the perfect diagnosis of what was wrong and with a strong belief they were the ones to fix it, and all three of them have failed to do it. it's quite a puzzle, and president clinton probably, because he came from arkansas, probably spent, and was governor for so long and in public life longer than the other two, he probably feels this and has a better feel for the heartbeat of it than anybody in the country and yet he can give a speech but he can't change it. >> yep. and what's so fascinating, john heilemann, is that those three presidents that are -- our last

three presidents, you have to go back to the 1800s, early 1800s to find three presidents in a row being consecutively re-elected, and so you would think that would, you know that would offer some sort of mandate, but it offers absolutely nothing but division, and it just begs the question, do americans have the kind of government they want? >> well, they clearly don't. i mean -- and that's one of the -- really, the fundamental fact of our political lives now is that the polarization and division in washington is much greater than the level of polarization and division in the country, and so you go around the country -- you guys see that, too? right? >> it's amazing. >> people just basically people in the country are moderate, pragmatic, center left, center right. that's what you find when you go aaron and talk to people. there are people on the far right and left but most are in the middle somewhere, trending a little liberal, a little conservative. >> you guys see the same thing as us, right? i always say that's one of the

biggest shocks in our book of events and when we go out, whether we're talking to democrats or republicans, a room full of democrats, a room full of republicans it is stunning how the same speech goes over the same exact way and you have people nodding their head at the same lines and laughing at the same jokes, and coming up to you and saying the same thing after the speech. they want the same things. >> extraordinarily puzzled why it is when they talk to their neighbors, of their party, sometimes not of their party, puzzled feeling they can find common ground in their neighborhoods, schools and local institutions but look at washington and see anger and unable to fix the challenges of the country, they can't understand it. it's baffling and they want to understand, how can this be? it doesn't seem that bad in my neighborhood and community, but horrible there, why is that?

>> right. >> this conversation can then perfectly transition to paycheck fairness. the white house push for equal pay, and for equal work, has been dealt a setback in the sflat. a complete setback. senate republicans yesterday blocked the paycheck fairness act. democrats fell seven votes short of the 60 required to advance the bill. republicans were united in their opposition. democratic senator barbara mikulski of maryland, sponsor of the bill, were was outraged. >> i'll tell you what i'm tired of hearing, that somehow or other we're too emotional when we talk. you know, when we raise an issue, we're too emotional. well, i am emotional. i am so emotional about this -- i am telling you, if we don't pass this bill, i'm so emotional, i'm going to press on! it brings tears to my eyes to know how women every single day are working so hard and are getting paid less. it makes me emotional to hear that.

then when i hear all of these phony reasons, some are mean and some are meaningless, i do get emotional! i get angry. i get outraged. i get volcanic. >> all right. president obama used much of this speech at the equal pay event tuesday attacking republicans for opposing the measure. take a listen to this. >> so far republicans in congress have been gumming up the works but two years ago a minority blocked it. the congressional republicans seem to be continue wale ly -- republicans seemingly opposing any efforts to evening the playing field. if they disagree, join me in this, the 21st century and vote yet on the paycheck fairness act.

>> and so characterized the president's comments as "revolting equal pay demagoguery" and ruth writes, before you start checking the byline at the top of this piece and e-mailing the editor there's been a terrible mistake, let me be clear. i support women receive equal pay for equal work. i vote for the paycheck fairness act in the unlikely event that someone elected me to congress, but he goes on to say, the level of hyperbole actually of demagoguery democrats engaged in here is revolting. it's entirely understanding, of course, that the senate is up for grabs. waving the bloody shirt of unequal pay is smart politics. as i said, i'd vote yes on the bill, but i can understand the concerns of those who worry about floods of litigation and business decisions second-guessed by federal judges. there is a difference between opposing the paycheck fairness act and opposing paycheck fairness.

politicians who choose to confuse the two may score a cheap political point, but it's not a fair one. so, mika, ruth marcus obviously in support of this bill, saying what a lot around the table were saying yesterday, or a couple days ago, that the president may have missed an opportunity to get something done, though he was able to score points, and one of the lines i didn't even hear the other day that stands out was, him talking about inviting the republican into the 21st century. >> right. >> again, probably not going to get the wavering votes when you say that about somebody in the other party, but what should the president do now? what should democrats do now, if they want to do more than score political points? >> well, looking ahead, trying to actually get something done on this issue, because i think, first of you a, we need both sides to agree there is a problem and not quibble over 77 or 88 or whatever. it's actually worse than all of that, if you really dig into the

numbers and talk to people out there, the situation is far worse than the averages that are out there. and it needs to be dealt with. but you know what? i'm frustrated, because i feel like the republicans have been so busy saying no and trying to repeal laws that have been there and endorsed by the supreme court they haven't actually thought about admitting -- >> what should they do? >> -- i will get there. if both agree it's exists, maybe a negotiation. there must have been a failure in terms of giving them something to work with. how do you cut a deal with someone if you only lambast them? to an extent i could see how after the event, it's like, why would i help you out? i've got to go back to my district. so, to me, it seems like there should be some sort of bipartisan effort, whether it be a summit or something else that really looks paycheck fairness and all the different parts of it, because women leaving the

workforce happens because of children, because of families, because of -- if we've got a way to help women stay in jobs, if we've got a way to make sure that they can grow at the same level at -- by the way, we work harder at this point. you all know that. it's got to be -- an option for us. >> right. >> to figure out how to be validated for our work and i think both sides should agree on that. i'm very sad about this, but i do think it's a failure on both sides. >> what was the gender, guys, what was the gender gap in 2012? as far as women goes? do we know? five, six, seven? >> seven, i think. >> probably about seven points rchlt. >> yeah. >> it wouldn't were hurt the republican party to come forward. i understand what they're saying, they have a concern. there are a lot of republicans like me that know there's a serious problem. i really serious problem out there, and there is a disparity, if you're in the workforce more than a week you see a disparity out there. there's no equal pay for equal work but at the same time, like ruth marcus said a lot of us

don't want federal judges second guessing every decision and instead of figuring out how to grow the business we're figuring how many lawyers to hire to be defended in federal court every time we don't give a woman a promotion somewhere. that's the concern of a lot of people. that said, republicans should, mark halperin, figure out a way to move forward with a piece of legislation that actually does offer a viable alternative for what the president's put out there and who knows, maybe miracles happen. they figure out a compromise that actually helped working women, and by the way, cynically, might not actually hurt the republican brand either? >> might help the republican brand. it might also help president obama. they've got to decide on issues like that. are they willing to give the president political victories. he thinks they are, why he made a political contrast even ruth marcus felt he had gone too far, overstating statistics. no one wants to minimize the

problem but you've got to find republicans, to your point, mika, republicans who believe in their heart it's a problem. >> and women leadership in the republican party. the republican party needs to find a candidate who can win and they need, and they're out there, so many out there, great women in leadership who can really speak to these issues from their perspective. >> right now -- >> you're not going to find a republican standing up a a press conference saying i think federal judges should have a bigger say in what goes on in small businesses, in omaha, nebraska. you're just not going to find that woman. for good, ideological sound reasons. >> maybe this? the right bill, or law, this isn't a republican issue. they want to be paid equally. republicans have to find common ground with the president. 2012, the spread was 12 points. four years before that, it pass 14 points. actually worse under mccain than romney for republicans in the presidential election.

>> republican really have an incentive to get something done, not look like this bill, but get something done. when a president goes out and did what they did the other day, what ruth marcus called demagoguery. do you think and do democrats believe -- >> talking about the event in the east room? >> yeah. talking about dragging republicans into the 21st century, would democrats prefer to have this issue in 2014, hoping that you get a 14% gender gap? would it be better for democrats to have this issue to beat republicans up on? or would it be better to actually have a bill passed? >> if there was any actual prospect of a bill being passed it woulds better probably for democrats to have the bill passed, however, to democrats it's a false choice. because what they see is, no likelihood of passage of any kind of legislation when the republican party won't even acknowledge that there's a problem, and so if the republican party won't acknowledge a problem, it's a vicious cycle. >> yeah. >> but if the republican party

won't acknowledge there's a problem, democrats say, well -- >> talking about congressional republicans? >> congressional republicans. >> i guarantee you, congressional governors -- >> work to pass a bill. >> right. >> if they're not acknowledging a problem, zero prospect of passing a bill. with that, much rather have the issue. not a choice for them. the republicans, do they want to cooperate with a bill because they think democrats want the issue. both parties on this issue distrust the motives of the other side and believe no progress is possible, because republicans think democrats would rather have the issue. democrats think republicans won't move on anything, so you're at a stalemate. >> back to what bill clinton said before we launched into this. >> what marcus said. at the same time you can argue all of the political aspects of it, you can't argue the math and the math is worth. i can tell you, i've lived it. we all have. the only way certain situations here were solved, when men got involved. really, really -- really, quite

frankly, men who put themselves on the line, like you, and our boss. but for me looking at that event, i was there, as you saw. i really enjoyed it, and there were about 250 women in the room, they weren't saying, yeah, political opportunity. we're going to kick the republican butts. they were in there feeling like, finally, someone understood what a big problem we have, in this country. >> that's right. >> and for republicans to then go after that and call it demagoguery or even ruth marcus, fine, maybe it is. but for them missing a political opportunity. >> totally agree. the other thing i'd say, it's april of a congressional year. this discussion might have been more fruitfully had in april of last year, where both sides would not see it as such a political thing then. you know, a year later, six months from election day, both parties, rightly, distrust the political motives of either side because they recognize this is not the time when real legislation normally gets passed in washington.

>> a real opportunity for women. coming up on "morning joe," "nurse jackie," edie falco and "fortuch rch" first a check on e forecast. seeing a nice spring day really across most of the country as we head into the satellite radar shot you see a few scattered showers moving into parts of minneapolis continuing to transition to the east. seeing a few showers near chicago. the clouds from that cold front reach us heading into tomorrow, but today beautiful conditions. plenty of sunshine for new york. temperature's at 63 degrees. 50s for boston and 71 for washington, d.c. as we head to the west coast, 75 degrees in los angeles, and phoenix will near 100 degrees for today. things look really nice tomorrow as were well. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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let's take a look at the "morning papers" from our parade of papers, the "pittsburgh-post-gazette," a 16-year-old charged in stabbing 21 students and a security guard in murrysville, pennsylvania. he faced a judge last night held on dozens of charges at the rampage at franklin high school. he ran through the hallway nearly five minutes slashing victims as he went.

witnesses say the suspect had a blank expression on his face as we went. the a's assistant principal subdued the attacker before others jumped into action. >> i came down the stairs, and i saw the kid, and mr. king was yelling at him and i didn't know why. i turned around and saw him stab, chasrge the police or and afterwards he went down and mr. king took off to take the kid down, and i was behind him and we jumped on him and immobilized him. >> you instinctively reacted? were you scared, nervous? >> i was looking for a garbage can to hit him with or something. >> the student had two knives 8 to 10 inches in length. the fbi went to the suspect's home retrieving computers. the teen's attorney says he has no knowledge of him being bullied and his parents were absolutely dumbfounded. we'll go to politico and follow that investigation. willie?

joining us now, editor in chief there. good morning. attorney general eric holder says he is treated by congress in ways his predecessors never were. holder's comments to the national action network yesterday follow a particularly testy exchange this week with texas republican louis gomert. >> the last five years have been defined by significant strides and lasting reforms, even in the face -- even in the face of unprecedented, unwarranted, ugly and divisive adversity. [ applause ] if you don't believe that -- you look at the way, and forget about me. forget about me. you look at the way the attorney general of the united states was treated yesterday by a house committee. had nothing to do with me. forget that. what attorney general has ever had to deal with that kind of treatment? [ applause ] what president has ever had to deal with that kind of treatment?

>> i think what we promise to do is provide you and your staff with -- >> sir, i've read you what your department promised, and it is inadequate and i realize that contempt is not a big deal to our attorney general, but it is important that we have proper oversight. >> you don't want to go there, buddy. you don't want to go there. >> i don't want to go there? >> no. >> about the contempt? >> you should not assume that, that is not a big deal to me. i think that it was inappropriate. i think it was unjust, but never think that that was not a big deal to me. don't ever think that. this was all about the gun lobby and a desire to have -- >> sir, we've been trying to get to the bottom of "fast and furious" where people died, where at least a couple hundred mexicans died, and we can't get the information to get to the bottom of that. so i don't need lectures from you about contempt and -- >> and i don't need lectures from you, either. >> congressman gomer with

attorney general holder a couple days ago. get to that in a second. back to the comments of the national action network, what is the attorney general getting at there? >> putting something out there on the table that's usually expressed in kind of a background conversation, never in a public arena which is that he is held to a double standard, was were suggesting before the civil rights group and president obama's held to a double standard, subject to less respect, more contempt by the republican opposition, because of race. so it was really a notable comment and it showed he took that exchange that we showed the clips of, not as a testy one-off but saw it as representative of something very real. which is that republicans are, are less than noble in their motives in challenging them. that's not simple procedures of accountability. there's something more going on there. >> because of racism. that's what -- i mean, that's what holder suggests, the attorney general suggested yesterday, right? >> there's no question. >> exactly what he's trying to get at. i don't see any other reading of it.

>> no. the only reading of it, and he's right. absolutely no attorney general has ever been held in such contempt as this before. unless, of course, you talk about janet reno, accused of murder by republicans after waco. i mean, you were there in the 1990s. we were all there in the 1990s. i was there in the 1990s. i can tell you what happened yesterday, if louis go ert were interviews janet reno in 1993 after waco, or 1994 after waco or after ruby ridge, it would have been at least that tough, would it not? i'm not asking for your opinion. this is just a matter of history. and we always hear this about barack obama as well, oh, he's treated worse than anybody. really? talk to bill clinton. the clinton chronicles. oh -- hold on a second. clinton chronicles. people accused bill clinton of murdering political rivals in arkansas. national figures accused bill clinton of murder in arkansas.

so when you're going to say to barack obama and eric holder, they've been treated worse than anybody else in the history of american politics because of their race? well -- you just -- you're not even going back 20 years lit alone 200. i'm sorry, go ahead. >> saying he was treated that way because republicans in washington regarded him as an arkansas hayseed, not part of the establishment. everyone has their own victimhood narrative. you're right about that and i get a kick, sometimes the '90s are referred to as a period of great civility in american politics. those there at the time, you, joe, halperin up there covered it. i covered it. it wasn't the case. it was every bit as kind of vicious and contemptuous as the politics we're seeing here. >> i do want to move on, willie, though, to the important story today, it may be the most important story we cover in politics over the next decade. and it's number two in the politico play list. he's back. and he's better than ever. i speak, of course, john harris,

of edwin edwards, one of the favorite reporters, ordinarily editor at large went down to his home turf, covering edwards the last 30 years for his, what looks to be his last stand. he's running for congress. he's 86. he's got a newborn infant, great picture on the cover of politico, with edwards using the stroller as kind of half stroller, half walker, as he tries to get a seat in congress. >> politico's john harris, thanks a lot. up next, forget the grocery markets of yesterday. how whole foods is re-inventing the way we shop for food. "fortune" magazine's andy serwer joins us next on "morning joe." (vo) you are a business pro. maestro of project management.

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police here in new york are looking for two men who stole more than $60,000 from a whole foods this week. on the bright side, whole foods made all that money back when the next customer paid for an apple. >> apples to apples. here with us now, managing editor of "fortune" magazine, andy serwer, here on how whole foods is taking over america,

one brick and mortar storefront at a time. andy, good to see you here. fascinating, they are expanding into markets you wouldn't consider. boise, new york, and detroit. done a lot of coverage on detroit and the problems that detroit has had in trying to find its footing and rebound. explain why whole foods finds these markets as ones that are emerging? >> the story is whole foods, taking over america, and jimmy fallon jokes about whole paycheck, notwithstanding. >> sure, yeah. >> they are making a lot of in-roads. two things are happening. number one, becoming a better retailer. they're figuring out how to put stores in different markets, as suggested, traditionally you think of berkeley, upper west side, austin, et cetera. >> right. >> but -- >> brooklyn. >> hipsters, brooklyn. but now they're figuring out local foods, you know, around different geographies, number one. number two, it's not as expensive as people think. they do have store brands and another thing, americans are getting healthier and eat

healthier food. this huge trend is really going their way. >> do you think the perception, it is a misperception about the fact that whole foods is seemed as just for people that can afford to spend a whole bunch of money on buying kale? >> and the kiawah crowd and all that. listen, how many people who watch "morning joe" shop at whole foods? what do you think? a lot? >> 98.4%. >> i think 138%, actually. >> at least pass through one or have driven by one? >> right. the thing is, that people are going to these stores more. they're eating healthier food, and it's not as expensive. you've seen, they do these things all the time and do the comparisons, and it's just not as expensive as people think and more and more people are looking for healthy foods. >> how does whole foods, like every great incumbent. start as an innovator, become an

incumbent. if it's true americans are becoming healthier, how do they keep a hold on the market as others think doing more organics and more healthy food? >> walmart is having a huge organic food push. $156 billion in food sales for walmart versus whole foods, over ten times bigger than whole foods is and it's going to be really, really tough. right now whole food same-store sales, sales of stores open one year, business jargon, they're not growing as fast as they used to. they've got to keep working it. there's no magic. i think the regional food thing is really important and, also, working the pricing. it's very tough. i mean, when walmart all of a sudden, you know -- oh, starts paying attention to you, that's a good thing. that's a really bad thing, also. i mean, it means you're on to something and the big gorilla is coming after you, no question. >> a great looking magazine cover. you're looking great myself, my man. ready for summertime? >> it's kale juice, right in

there. >> kale juice? >> andy tells us, kale juice all day long followed by bourbon d and -- >> true. still ahead, edie falco, star of the critically acclaimed show "nurse jackie" is standing by. e were love edie and elove jackie, too. let's talk about that character's flaws. "morning joe" is coming up.

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>> [ bleep ] fib. power up. ♪ >> clear. oh, man. that is a clip from the hit showtime series "nurse jackie". here with us now the star of "nurse jackie," edie falco. i'll try not to fan out. here to keep me in control because i love you and think you're tremendous on "nurse jackie." i do. just tremendous. >> thank you. >> i love that show. let's talk about this, because we were watching the character of trying to get her life back together and we see that clip. we know jack ip going off the rails. it's kind of sad to see, because she was making progress. >> uh-huh. >> but she is flawed. >> she's flawed. >> deeply. >> she's deeply flawed, but it's, i think it more accurately

depicts what tends to go on, which is trying to get clean is a real roller coaster ride for most people. it very lairly is like, i'm ready and it goes into the sunset. so, yeah. i think it's what happens. things look good, you get excited. people start to feel they can trust them again and it all falls to hell. >> great way to put it. you have to think about those suffering from addiction, be a willing participant and the driver of her own car, so to speak to make sure they're on the right track. >> four sure. >> you have personal experience able to tap into the flaws of "nurse jackie"? >> i do. i think their are few people around who don't have some, you know, relationship with addiction, either themselves or people that they love, and i think any of those people can understand what it's like to be involved in the tornado. >> all right. i don't want to steal all of your time. i have to let these guys talk. >> you previously want another show with an iconic character?

>> it was so long ago. i've done a lot. >> anyway. my question is your new iconic character, a huge, incredibly, emotional, loyal following. >> with crazy people. >> when you get stopped on the street now, people are talking to you mostly about "nurse jackie" or that other show? >> i think it shifted finally to the last ten years of my life, which is "nurse jackie." not quite ten years. more jackie stuff. >> and people talking about you as if you are that character? >> it's an odd circumstance walking down new york and get personal information quickly from people i've never met. so -- it's also one of the joys of the business that i'm in, yeah. as i said, addiction has touched a lot of people. >> i'll ask you a super sad question. >> go ahead. >> that's in connection with what mark just mentioned. the passing of are jim gandolfini, you worked with as close as anybody for years and years and years. was that -- how did that affect you when it happened? it seemed to come out of nowhere? >> it still seems surreal. it hasn't quite been a year yet and we would go for long periods

without seeing each other, but just hearing about each other, occasional check in e-mail or text. he was going to be in town. so on some level it doesn't quite feel real. it just feels like another period of time where we haven't seen each other. you know -- death is huge, and the comprehension, i won't see him again, i can't quite fathom it. >> yeah. one of the things interesting about this show. talking about the show you're doing now. we're in the global age of television. the golden age of television and a lot of actors and actresses seem to be now more attracted to tv than doing films. which used to not be the case. given a choice being in a long-running series like you're in and doing more film? are you one of these people in the place, this is where the real action is, on tv? >> i really don't know the answer to that. the truth is, i tend to be happy where i am. that's what's happening here. i have fallen into these tremendously challenging and exciting shows, and i have to

say i really do love having a regular-ish job, sort of unheard of in my line of work, and to get to play a character where it's not about discovering the character in each film, i sort of feel like i know who she is, but now what will she go through and how will that manifest? i love i can get deeper into her each time as i get to explore further aspects of her life, chapters these going through and i love it. >> seems the capacity for nuance is greater, over the years, rather than just a two-hour film? >> that's right. and i know the crew and other cast members. we've established a relationship between who the characters, how they deal with each other. that stuff is out of the way and you can get into deeper stuff, which i love. >> you definitely have a great chemistry with a group of characters. coop's not going to be around? >> no, he's not. >> daddy colin from the "twilight" series, know him from movie roles.

showing all my pop culture. i stalk all of you. >> the scariest thing i've ever heard. yes, he will not be with us next year. i think he's going to do another show, something. but we will miss him very much. >> doing a tremendous job. >> thank you. >> and come back staige age? >> a huge commitment when you have kids. i have to be cuckoo crazy about it. >> "peter pan"? >> i would do "peter pan." are you offering? i'm open to anything. >> open to possibilities. >> there's a bit of are sandy duncan in you. be honest. >> a bit in us all? yeah. >> so the season premiere "nurse jackie" sunday at 9:00 p.m. edie falco, will you come back to "morning joe"? >> i would love it. >> did we scare you off? >> no. i would love it. >> after every episode. we'll be right back after this. (dad) just feather it out. that's right.

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an italian magician, his name is -- something a youtube channel put five mentos an a dab of mintella on a coke bottle, put a condom on the coke bottle. i wouldn't consider it magic, i would consider it magical. >> [ speaking in foreign language ] [ speaking in foreign language ] . >> i am loving this new pope. i really am. i am a huge fan of women.

but i don't feel -- i don't feel i need to pander to them. they're too smart for that. isn't that right, ladies? [ cheers ] sadly -- our co-pander in chief spent yesterday kissing up to women on something called equal pay day. jim? >> today the average full-time working woman earns just 77 cents for every dollar a man earns. equal pay day means that a woman has to work about this far into 2014 to earn what a man earned in 2013. >> yes, to get the same amount of pay, women's work year is three months longer. good news, ladies. if you're 38 years old, financially you're just 29! [ laughter ] >> cbs, "60 minutes," the cbs "60 minutes" show, they had to apologize, because they dubbed loud engine sounds over video in a recent report about the silent

tesla electric car. "60 minutes" seems to have been playing with their audio for quite a while now. take a look. >> conceived as an online book seller amazon has re-invented itself time and again. >> the so-called pick ambassador walks the aisles plucking and -- before placing them in bins. those bins wind up in front of a packer who knows exactly how big of a box to use based on the weight and amount of items. your address is slapped on to the box and -- [ inaudible ]. >> all right. nothing like a little sound effects to juice things up. last night jimmy fallon went retro with stevie nicks performing "stop dragging my heart around." have you seen it? take a peek. ♪ this doesn't have to be the big ♪ this doesn't have to be anything at all ♪ i know you really want to tell a

good-bye ♪ i know you really want to be -- ♪ baby you can never look me in the eye ♪ yeah with the weight of the world ♪ ♪ stop dragging my, stop dragging my ♪ ♪ stop dragging my heart around ♪ ♪ ooh-ooh >> don't you just love jimmy fallon? i love jimmy fallon. >> i love the -- i think you said it this morning. i love the kind of '80s filter on the camera filters. a little blurry. a little blurry. doesn't need to be precise. >> and the booking he's doing, wicked awesome. it's great. jimmy fallon is, you know, god, i wish i was that talented, because he gets to do all the fun stuff. tomorrow on "morning joe," arianna huffington will join us, also paul standley, the legendary rock band kiss. one of the co-founders. i thought we had an image of him in makeup that we were going to use.

john tower. what happened to that? huh? uh-huh! there we go. excellent. thank you very much. all right. in less than two weeks we're taking the show on the road. "morning joe" live from wrigley field celebrating 100 years of baseball in chicago. on wednesday april 23rd. you don't want to miss it. up next what if anything did we learn today. [ male announcer ] at his current pace, bob will retire when he's 153,

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welcome back to "morning joe." time to talk about what we learned today. mika, what did you learn? >> i learned some people think paycheck fairness act is a pet project. that's all. >> a political stunt, i think is what some would say. >> yeah. >> political stunt? that's -- hmm. go ahead, i would never say such a thick, but some would. that's what they say. what do you say? >> i say i never want to discuss with mika. brooklyn, bruce springsteen. and looking forward to cat stevens, he was on jimmy fallon a couple nights ago. the voice is still -- >> you're kidding? >> beautiful as it ever was. fantastic. >> tom? >> edie falco, "nurse jackie." i love them both. dvr is set. >> and hillary clinton's

accomplishments, apparently. >> talking about the twitter? >> exactly. >> and a public debate. >> listen, i've got a lot of responses. you ask a question like that, to the panel, what's her biggest accomplishment as secretary of state, one of the great things about twitter. immediately you get, you know, thousands of people responding what they think that is. that's good. >> we end the show with what you learned about what you're going to do for claire? >> claire, i'm going to do -- yardwork for you. it's way too early. it's "morning joe." stick around, chuck todd live from austin city limits. 50 years after a monumental push of presidential power. lyndon johnson's legislative legacy, and the 1964 civil rights act are the focus of three days of reflection on the history since that time, in consideration of what should happen next. four