the rest. i'm krystal ball, and we'll have more on the sitdown with kathleen sebelius, and including what she told the president. horror to start one of the holyist. a white supremacist goes on a shooting rampage of two jewish sisters. we have the latest on this tragedy that once again has the attention of the president. we'll have his comments and some of the first woudz from the heart broken families. >> and we're going to spin today about a wild weekend out west. federal authorities in a standoff with hundreds of armed protesters over cattle deep in the nevada desert. i'm abby huntsman. those protesters are claiming vikt, while many others are scratching their heads. >> all that, plus do not adjust your set. i'm going to tell you why jeb bush is right. >> hmm.

>> i would caution you against raising hopes that it will result in the detection of the aircraft wreckage. it may not. >> people need to realize that these searches, particularly unfold over owe months and years, not -- certainly not hours and days. >> day 38 in the search for a missing malaysia flight 370 heads to the bottom of the ocean. it's a new phase in the effort, but don't get your hopes up for fast results. the u.s. navy's unmanned mini-subis now mapping an extremely small section of the ocean floor, the blue fin 21 is only able to cover about 15 square miles per day. that's only 3% of the 500 square mile area triaction newsing lated by the pings detected last week. it's been six days since crews last heard a ping, leading experts to believe the black box's batteries have finally worn out. that's why they've stopped using the towed ping locator and

deployed the blue fin instead. using the mini-subis painfully slow process. two hours to reach the search depth, 16 hours of digital mapping, another two hours to get back to the surface followed by four hours to download the data for analysis. ian williams has the latest. >> hi. the search entered a new phase with the launch of the blue fin 21. this is the unmanned submersible vehicle that will be going on 24-hour missions down to the sea bed at some three miles beneath the research ship, which is carrying it. now, they had hoped that they would have more pings, they would have heard more sounds from the black box before

launching this vehicle. before send it down. there have been no fresh pings, no fresh sounds since last tuesday, so they decided they might as well go ahead and launch this search, but the area they're looking at 15 square miles initially, is very big, and this vehicle works at walking pace. this is an enormous challenge, and angus houston, the coordinator here, was cautious in describing how this works and the likelihood of any speedy results. he also said but they had spotted an oil slick some five kilometers -- that's about two and a half miles -- down stream from where they believed the aircraft entered the water. experts here in perth are skeptical about whether that could be related to the aircraft. there are lots of other reasons why oil turns up in the sea. also today hints from houston that the air search for surface

debris, for surface wreckage could soon be coming to an end. he said that he thought that by this time it was becoming increasingly unlikely they would find any wreckage. though, had he to consult partners before making that final decision. >> ian williams, thanks again. let's bring in friend of the show former ntsb vefrlt greg phythe. it seems like as the search goes on it only gets harder. >> it does, and that's the big thing. we talked about this a while back, and that is there comes a point where the search effort has to have at least a re-evaluation. you know, when you look at what angus houston is saying, this they're going to suspend the surface search, if you will, the air search and the surface search, it's because of

diminishing returns. unfortunately, we don't have diminishing returns. we just don't have any returns. they never found any wreckage. they have to now put all their assets and really their manpower in this underwater search. >> yeah. well, greg, there was a report over the weekend from the malaysian newspaper, the muse straights times, that the co-pilot placed a call on his cell phone after the plane had been diverted from its original route and the theory here essentially was that the plane was flying low enough at that point for the nearest telecommunications tower to pick up the phone's signal, but if the plane was flying at this low of an altitude, wouldn't it have been burning up too much fuel to make it to the spot in the ocean where they think it eventually ended up? >> absolutely. that's the big problem here. there are so many of these little pieces of information that come out that are not vetted. first off, the airplane was at 35,000 feet. to dive down to 5,000 feet or whatever the altitude was they

said it to and then be picked back up on radar makes no sense at all. the fact is that it really never happened. the cell phone ping itself normally above about 2 5shgs00 feet above the ground, cell phone signal doesn't work. only because the cell phone is trying to ping multiple towers, and it's moving so fast between the towers it can't switch. so the malaysian government actually dismissed that only because they said if this actually happened, we would have known about it a month ago and pursued it, and they didn't know about it a month ago zoosh you have now an oil -- an oil slick that has been found about three and a half miles from where the pings were detected. that oil is now being tested by investigators. are they able to tie this to a specific flight, or can they only determine if this is jet fuel versus ship fuel? >> it's the latter. they're going to be able to determine whether this is a high grade jet a or jet fuel versus a crude oil that you would normally see out of a tanker or

something that was bilged overboard by a sea-going vessel. they're going to look at that. the other thing is that because we're now 38 days into it, to have an oil slick five miles or even two miles from where they're searching is highly unlikely only because the sea state has been so churned up over the last 38 days. however, you could have a slow leak out of a wing tank if that wing tank stayed intact, it sunk, and it's just leaking fuel. we could be cautious with that one, but i don't think that it's going to really pan out to be anything related to mh 370. >> oh. >> greg, when you talk about oil on the surface of the ocean there, that's the kind of thing that, of course, relates to a surface search, as we're learning they're doing less of that. can you walk us through what that means when they say they're not doing as much on the surface here? >> sure. they're going to ramp it down. the aerial search has really turned up nothing. they've expended a lot of resources over the last 38 days

looking from the air with a multiple of airplanes, and, of course, that has really resulted in nothing. they found a lot of garbage in the ocean, but they haven't found anything related to the airplane. as far as the sea state is concerned, and the surface search, again, you have a lot of assets. you have a lot of manpower that has returned nothing. now they're going on have to just focus and try and scale that down and put all of their energy now into this underwater search. hopefully with the side scan sonar which could take a very long time. you're looking at a month easily. they're going to probably put several other assets, maybe even the echo on station to wait and see what turns up with the side scan sonar, and if there is anything that's curious, then they'll pursue that. i think the surface search, you know, there was no benefit to that as far as we can see now. only because there was nothing ever sited that was related to this airplane. >> i can't believe we've got so little after so long. greg, thank you so much. up next, a democratic reset

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>> i think there's no question, and i have said this many times, that the launch of the website was terribly flawed and terribly difficult. the end of open enrollment was a logical time to leave. there is never a good time. >> did he try to talk you out of? t? >> well, i made it pretty clear that that really wasn't an option to stay on. >> that was ongoing health and human services secretary

kathleen sebelius in her first interview since announcing her resignation. her decision to leave is another case of bad timing for democrats who were hoping to use the two-week recess to reset the obama care message back in their districts. seb he'll yes, sirus's departure could add more fuel for republicans. democrats, especially those vulnerable in the senate this november, there is a critical choice to make. run on obama care or run away from obama care. norm ornstein is a long of time observer of political and political science. he is a scholar at the -- thanks so much for joining us. >> my pleasure, crystal and congrate las vegass again on your great victory. >> thank you very much. >> i am still celebrating. thank you. it was the crowning achievement of my life. it's all downhill from here. norm, i wanted you to take a look at an ad that i think is very effective, that's being run by nancy pelosi's pac in west virginia in support of nick rayhall, and it tackles obama

care in an interesting way. take a look. >> rick and i went on our first date when we were 15. i've been with him ever since. for 35 years he worked in the mines, and i would worry about him every day. now i worry we both could get hurt if evan jenkins goes to congress. he vowed to repeal black lung benefits. >> so, norm, evans jenkins, obviously the republican in this rashgs running to repeal obama care and this ad highlights real people in the community who are suffering from black lung who benefit from the provisions of obama care. obama care has never actually mentioned, but some of the popular provisions are. this seems like a pretty smart approach. >> no, i agree. i actually think democrats are long overdue going on the offensive on a law that is now taking hold where it seems clear from the latest cbo report that the costs are actually going to be lower than anybody had anticipated where an awful lot of people are being covered and not just through the exchanges

and through medicaid. it has opened things up a lot for people to get employer provided coverage. we're seeing the preexisting conditions gone and we're seeing people die for not being on medicaid. >> i think they should use the hearings on sylvia matthews to actually draw a stark contrast on this law. the more you are on the defensive, the more it looks like you're trying to defend the indefensible. >> let's talk about republicans here as well. the question going forward for obama care, is it necessarily about the website? the big question is going to be about the law's overall effectiveness? how successful have we been at expanding coverage to people? how successful would this be at containing costs? you know, this is what republicans should be asking leading into the midterms instead of just repeal preel, and the "wall street journal" hit on this yesterday on "meet the press." take a look. >> the political issue isn't the website. the political issue is what they

did to the individual marketplace. how many people lost their insurance? what are the prices you are going to get? -- you are going to pay? what limits do you have on your doctor and so on? that's where the republicans are really going to try to fight in november. if they're smart, they'll mesh their critique with an agenda to fix those problems. >> norm, i think he is on to something there. if republicans are able to match their critique with a real agenda, with real idea of their own about how they would fix the law, wouldn't that be a winning strategy leading into the midterms? >> of course, it would. if you aim at mending it and not ending it. i have to say that when i saw paul say that, i kind of laughed because look at what the individual marketplace was like before the affordable care act. it was a jungle, and it was awful. the fact is the alternatives that have been put out there don't solve the problems of the individual marketplace. most of the republican alternatives would still leaf lots of people who face preexisting conditions without any insurance, but at the moment you see only feeble attempts to

come up with anything other than the cry and the rallying cry to repeal it. >> yeah. i think that's right. i think paul's problem is that the republican party has proven itself at the congressional level at completely uninterested in doing anything serious about health care policy. we know that because historically they had supported the individual mandate, thought it was a good idea in heritage, and i know you've at aei where there's conservatives, some who might say they care about health care. they didn't find allies as a historical matter in the republican congress. this house has been against the law, against anything to do with mending it or helping it, and now wants to sit around and claim interesting into the midterm that is they have a health care policy. we know they don't. i think that's what's interesting about sebelius exiting is it becomes sort of a roar shark for how people feel. the law is working. 7.5 million covered. plus, more people, as you mentioned, norm, and she's leaving in a great period of success. yet, in the republican world view, they want to pretend somehow that she's being drummed out of there, and i just don't

see any evidence of that, as well as the fact that she sebed as a health and human services secretary longer than a lot of others have historically. the question i want to ask you, comment on any of that, and then what do you think about the fact that generally more of the ayre against obama care has obviously focused on the president and not as many on sebelius in contrast to say under bush where there were a lot of other lightning rods -- cheney, wolfowitz, levy. a lot of other people caught the ayre. >> ezra cline has a terrific piece in vox on obama care derangement syndrome. the notion that you can't look at positive things, but just simply have to focus on blowing the whole thing up. you know, at the same time this is not just a political mistake, i think. it's a tragedy because the fact is the law is working in some ways, but it's flawed. there are plenty of problems, as there are with almost any big social policy as it gets unroled. that was true of bush's medicare prescription drug program, and the best thing to do for the

country is to adjust it and fix it to make sure that some people don't get screwed along the way, and what's happening here is this has become simply a political focus and infantry the alternative that is are out there. -- i looked at what bobby engine daul has put out there as a presumed health care and policy expert, and it's a joke. there's nothing there. we do not have an alternative, and he we had a top senate aide confide that basically if you did do something that solved the problems of preexisting conditions and providing insurance for people, it would look a whole lot like obama care. >> indeed. norm, let me turn the corner and touch on every possible angle of obama care. the president was fiery and combative last week talking about voter suppression at the national action network summit. let's look at a little bit of that. >> to start, simple truth is this. the right to vote is threatened today in a way that it has not been since the voting rights act became law nearly five decades

ago. across the country republicans had led efforts to pass laws making it harder, not easier, for people to vote. >> andrew young, civil rights icon, has a new proposal. let's put pictures on people's social security cards, maybe that will bridge the gap. michael in the l.a. times says this represents a capitulation to a dishonest and sleazy campaign to disenfranchise americans and keep them out of the voting booth by intimidation. where do you stand, sir, on this whole voter id situation? >> well, i have to confess that i have actually worked with andy young on this plan, and my feeling about this is these are terrible laws, but the fact is we should do something to help people who don't have id's and to make it as easy as possible, and i think this is not something that's going to be applied to a large number, but for poor, old, and minority voters who can't get an id but have a social security card, we can make it easier, and we ought to be trying to make it easier

even as we fight he's laws, and i should add not just on voting, but on campaign finance. >> don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. up next, the very latest on the shooting that shocked a kansas city community and the nation. we will get a live report. that's next. if i can impart one lesson to a new business owner, it would be one thing i've learned is my philosophy is real simple american express open forum is an on-line community, that helps our members connect and share ideas to make smart business decisions. if you mess up, fess up.

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xwlo right now in the news cycle the president's annual easter prayer breakfast included a prayer for the very manies of this weekend's hate-filled shootings at two jewish centers near kansas city. >> we're all made in his image and worthy of his love and dignity, and we see what happens around the world when this kind of religious based or tinged violence can rear its ugly head. it's fwot no place in our society.

>> that idiot absolutely knocked a family to its knees. for no reason. my dad should be seeing patience today at his work. you know, reid, if they had school today, he would be in school studying, and welcome his friends. this is -- there's no reason, no reason for this. >> a third victim, a wife and mother has just been identified as terry lamanan, a parishioner at a local catholic church. investigators say the senseless violence came at the hands of this man, a white supremacist who continued ranting as police took him into custody. let's take you live to kansas city with lindsey shif shooifly, a reporter with our local affiliate kxhb. how can the community coping? >> unbelievably well. we learned today that local authorities and the fbi, their

words, "unquestionably determined these shootings to be hate crimes. really strong language as they were talking about this today. we expect about charges to hear first thing in the morning when those chaerjz might be coming for frazier, glenn miller, the 73-year-old man, who is not from kansas city, as far as we know, has no ties to kansas city, and lives several hours south of here, but, again, when he was getting put on the back of a police car, our crewed heard him say this. >> a shocking statement in those moments after when we were wanting clarification on what the motivation for the shooting could have been. authorities won't comment on that comment or any other comments he might have made while he was in custody, and they won't comment about any plans that might have been made to come up to kansas city and do this. they're saying that is all evidence that could be part of the hate crime investigation, but we know that he has a history with the ku klux klan. the outpouring from the community, you heard from the family members. they've been incredibly composed and for the youngest victim, 14-year-old reitt griffin

underwood, his classmates and friends just immediately going on to social media. he was trending across kansas city on twitter. all of them figuring out what they can do, and that night hundreds gathering for a vigil shocked when his mother took the microphone for the first time and just spoke about her faith and how they are all doing with, again, incredible composure. it was her father, dr. william lewis coccoran, who was driving his grandson to that singing audition who was shot and killed with him. that third victim, we're learning a lot more about today. theresa rose lomano. she is the third women. she was shot in the parking lot of a retirement community, village shalome." she was going to see her mom. she did that every sunday. she went to st. peters catholic church and worked for the center for visually impaired, a well known center for kids here. well loved and respected. more comes out about these victims, and it's obvious this isn't you ju such a tragedy for kansas city, but the whole

world. >> lindsey, thank you for that. moving on, a standoff in nevada between a rancher and federal agents has gotten hot as cattle ranger clive and bundy battled the government over grazing rights on public land for 20 years. bundy says his family have been working the land since the 1880s, while the government says that land must be preektd for environmental reasons. >> a federal agent and bundy and his supporters were armed and nose to nose for days and bundy's son was hit by a stun gun blast and arrested, but federal agents have decided to back off. it's a story that we have to spin on because we've got a lawyer, a utahan, and somebody who knows about rural america, why i would be in this conversation, nobody knows. i still do have a couple of thoughts. an interesting story that wraps in the second amendment, the

rites right's feeling about big government, the right's feeling about the environment, often amti the environment. there's a different relationship with the government than in others. we see here on the right how certain forms of lawlessness, like let's say being an undocumented immigrant is sort of the end of the conversation. you cross the border illegally, end the conversation, go back, but here because the bundy's are defiling the government and choosing which laws they want to follow and which they don't. they become heroes and patriots standing up to the government. the other idea for me, abby, is that it is impossible for me to imagine the government showing up to police a group of black people who had broken the law and those black people would have guns and say openly in media we're going to use them, we're going to do whatever we want. >> whatever it takes. >> whatever it takes. then government would say, oh, wow, well, we're going to back off.

>> i'm actually from the wild west. edward bunker who founded bunkerville is my great grandfather. >> fwrand father's great grandfather. i'm part of this family, and if anyone is going to stand by, i guess it has to be a family member. what they're doing is not legal, so i'll say that, but i think it's important to understand where these people are coming from. i mean, this is a place that was founded, you know, about 150 years ago on the nevada-utah border. this is before nevada or utah were even a state. they start out not even knowing what government was. i think they still live to this day like that. i think it's important to get osd of the northeast corridor. it's very tough to do that. understand where these people are coming from. this is all they have. for the feds to come in like they're invading afghanistan where you said they tasered their son. they had a helicopter flying above. very intimidating. these people are fighting for everything that they know, everything that they have, and i

think there's a right way to approach this. i'm not defending them by any means, but i think it's important to understand where both sides are coming from. >> he is not just standing up to the government. he said that he doesn't recognize the united states government as even existing. this is so far beyond just, you know, a beef over big government, and that's why to me it's so strange that the right has taken this on as sort of like a cause celeb. let's take a listen to dana on the kelly file talking about the way she feels about this case. >> i'll tell you this. if these cattle call them trespass cattle, if these cattle and they were people and they were here illegally, the department of justice would be running guns to them and the department of homeland security would be driving by with free government phones and ebt cards. now that they're cattle, they're actually rounding them up and killing them. >> i mean, i don't even know where to start with that. she even got the free government phone in there. it goes to your point, whether it's immigrants coming across the border, the militia folks

who have rallied here would be the first ones patrolling the border to send them back. on the other hand, you know, when it's this rancher and when they like the particular take that he has, it's a different story altogether. >> i respectfully differ a little bit with abby's view of it, and what i would say is what you have here is lawlessness. lawlessness initially because of the issues around the fact that they weren't authorized to have their cattle on this location, which sounds sort of technical, but it means they were breaking the rules, according to the feds. and then a second round of that where they are menacing and carrying their guns around in a conflict with the authorities. we don't want to be that kind of country. as an emergency plan, it may have been prudent for everyone

to try to take a step back. weir all glad no one was seriously injured in this standoff, but i think the folks were way out of line, walking around with their weapons, and i think it goes to a problem with gun culture. i grew up with a gun in the home, and there's nothing wrong under our constitution with having one or two to defend yourself. there is something wrong with, a, these folks walking around with guns p against officers when they're in the wrong, and, b, equal important, with a right wing political culture that tries to embrace and celebrate that. >> you know what else, tortoises matter. >> up next from the nixon years to the obama white house, the one thing that has not changed.

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legislative breakthroughs turn on efforts that combine outside pressure with an inside game. in fact, there's a new book dispatches from the eastern front that explores how to make congress work even when politicians would rather do nothing and exploring why and when public pressure does matter in those washington back rooms. joining us now is the book's author, general who spent four decades working on capitol hill, 15 for congressional leadership, including for the majority whip, and he is currently a public policy procedure at the university of virginia. welcome. >> good to be with you. thanks for having me. >> absolutely. you talk about examples where you were there on the inside and it wasn't just washington politicians making deals. there was a larger game and grassroots pressure. examples you give include the anti-apartheid protesters looking at our foreign policy towards south africa. you also talk about a really profound shift in our approach to nuclear prolir rags in this country. walk us through those historical

examples where you say an outside game really mattered. >> well, thank you very much. yes, i think the anti-apartheid ridges las vegas strug is a great example of where pressure from the grassroots brought about profound action in washington. it's also an example as i explore in my book of where sometimes you need to learn to take half a loaf and you can actually make a lot of progress. the other example is one where we lost. we lost consistently in battles with ronald reagan to curb the growing arsenal. at one time we had 60,000 nuclear weapons, but we ended up winning a war because ultimately the nuclear freeze movement did provide the kind of pressure that brought about greater sanity to our respective nuclear arsenals. it was citizen pressure that helped immensely. >> jerry, campaign finance has changed immensely since nixon's day. let's talk about how the rules and laws and norms have changed and how that has changed policy making. >> well, the system is broken. it's clear we need to have some fix. we all know from a commonsense

approach that corporations are not people and money is not speech, and i like to point out that the founding fathers weren't strict constructionists and they would know this is not the wrat rite way to go about things. today we have more anonymous money and less accountable. this is an area where citizens get involved, and we'll have some significant changes in the status quo to help us move forward. >> you also talk about years in washington that the only way to actually get anything done is to compromise and, unfortunately, today that is considered a dirty word. that means you're weak and you are compromising your principles. you know, young people actually want to see more of that. that's why you see it in the recent polls. pew research shows 50% see themselves as independent, so how important is it for these young people to throw themselves and get more involved? >> well, it's vital, and i hope they come in idea listic, and i see them every day at the baton school at uva where i teach. they need to know that sometimes taking half a loaf is a value,

to live to fight another day, and you also need to know when to go down in flames with the principle position in order to move things forward. i'm confident they'll get that balance right. one point i might make about millenials. there's a great piece in the washington post today that points out that 600,000 people apply for americore for 60,000 spots. 10-1. same thing with teach for america. about 60,000 applicants for 6,000 spots. there's a hunger amongst young people to get involved, to fix the system, and i'm quite optimistic and confident that they will. >> yeah. i totally agree with that. looking back at congress and the dysfunction there, it strikes me that we used to have these set of conventions so, we had the sort of legalistic rules that preceded over the house and the senate, but we also had these conventions like, for example, you don't filibuster everything. you could technically do that, but you don't do that because of convention, or by convention you don't use the debt ceiling to hold the entire country hostage,

and it seems to me that part of the dysfunction is the breaking down of those norms and conventions. >> i couldn't agree more. i used to have a little staff chair between the majority leader and the majority whip, and i would see the numbers coming by. incidentally, the things that is most often asked is when do we get to go home? we did do have i anumber of condition very longses that allowed for compromise and allowed for forward progress. >> the class i teach at uva we often talk about un -- that's the norm now. you have to come up with the goldberg scheme just to get a motherhood resolution. that's not how our founding fathers intended it. we all know that. i'm hopeful that we'll have some bright minds come forward that will help us fix some of these glaring problems. >> yeah. >> yeah. i think that's well put. the conventions obviously in your book speak to that, and krystal lots of political conventions where people gather. >> all kinds of conventions.

>> sure. >> i just wanted to mention that. >> i took a bunch of students to the democratic and republican conventions along with a colleague, david eisenhower, up at the university of pennsylvania. >> yeah, of course. >> wonderful to see the engagement of students working directly with legislators in real-time in a political process, and as i said, i'm quite optimistic that we'll see a new wave of energy come in to fix the problems that we baby boomers have left as a mess and i'm confident we'll see some of the courage that we saw from my mother and father's generation, the greatest generation, that also had some major problems. when we look at the toxic brew, we know we've left them a little bit of an iou. >> yeah. jerry, i hope you're right. thank you for your time. now, that is the politics here. up next, the real world impact on the people affected. what do you do when the american dream blows up in your face? well, make a documentary. >> for a while there i thought i was the only one that understood that what was happening around us had been absurd. my real view is that americans

aren't idiots. rory served his country with honor and integrity, and you notice turned his fighting spirit once again towards the good fight. like me, his message was -- >> exactly we're not expendable. i don't know what it means to be a patriot. i just know what it means to fight for what's right. [ female announcer ] who are we?

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turning dreamers into business owners. who would have thought masterthree cheese lasagna would go with chocolate cake and ceviche? the same guy who thought that small caps and bond funds would go with a merging markets. it's a masterpiece. thanks. clearly you are type e. you made it phil. welcome home. now what's our strategy with the fondue? diversifying your portfolio? e*trade gives you the tools and resources to get it right. are you type e*? >> like my granddad i decided swing for the fences and i chose to start my own business. ♪ can you hear the sound >> i found an investor and he

agreed to come on board ironically on september 15th, 2008. little did i know it at the time, but that day would become my pearl harbor. >> giant lehman brothers cooked the books in an effort to hide nearly $50 billion in leveraged assets. >> i was never afraid of anything until i lost the ability to provide for my family. >> patrick lavelle was well on his way to achieving his american dream wresh graduated college, paid his dues, and was succeeding in his career. he got married, bought a house, had a son, and was about to start his own business. then it all came crashing down. he is just one of the millions who lost their jobs and their homes in the financial crisis of 2008 and left wondering how this all happened. so patrick decided to travel across the country to find out why he and so many others were blindsided by the economy's implosion. in his new document where i forward 13, weaking up the northwestern dream, he sat down with everyone from real estate agents to occupy wall street protesters and came to one conclusion. the system is broken.

joining us now is patrick lavelle and the film's executive producer adam brothman bho helped finance this project. from beautiful salt lake city. >> it's nice to be here. >> patrick, you focus on the real human impact of the financial crisis, and your own story is a perfect example of what happened to so many people. i mean, you won't from making six figures to food stamps practically overnight. how did that happen? >> he well, it was unbleechbl. i was working on a television show where i was traveling the country giving away houses to deserving people, and that was an amazing experience. i thought i had built up my karma battery for life. then suddenly in september -- or i should say august of 2007 the executive production operation of this company went upside down overnight. they were out of seattle. i didn't understand what was going on. had i known what was going on, i would have tuck tailed it and run the other way, but, unfortunately, i decided start my own company, the realization of, you know, 20 years of being in the business and everyone's

dream to be autonomous, and i had the investments, capital set up on september 159, 2008, and it crashed and like millions of other people i went from being in a great position to being upside down and lost everything. i ended up going through foreclosure. the walls fell down around us, and it spawned the opportunity to connect with adam who understood what the situation was, and we went out and we found the truth. >> adam, speak to that conversation that you initially had with patrick. you come from a family with quite a bit of financial means, so foreclosure was not something that you or your family would have to deal with. what was it that patrick's story drew you in? >> i'm an american. it was serendipitous that i had the opportunity to have the financial assets to with stand what the financial crisis, but

most americans didn't have the financial as that's i did, and the connection that i have to all people is that could have been me other than the fact that i won the lottery fact that i won the lottery by the gene pool selection. it seemed to me that what was going on was simply wrong. and the way it happened was hurting americans in ways that were going we're going to be recovering from for a very long time. >> it's definitely true. you guys talk to all sorts of americans across the spectrum, including folks from occupy wall street. that movement has been mocked, but as time has gone on, their message about inequality has only grown louder and resonated more. talk a little bit about what you learned out in the road about inequality. >> well, let me just preface how this whole thing kind of sparked.

aside from the actual living through the downturn, the soul-crushing downturn of what happened with modification, which hopefully we'll have a chance to talk about. but dylan ratigan -- >> we remember him. >> dylan, i'd like to consider i've become a ph.d. in dylan ratigan. but on august 10th, 2011, he told the truth. and he was a huge spark in getting this whole thing together. i really went to adam immediately thereafter and said we've got to connect the dots of what's going on. none of this is adding up and we've got to really dive in. so at the end of the day, the movements of occupy wall street, it sparked the day we went on the road to shoot this. we went on a 7,500 cross-country journey. the timing was unbelievably serendipito serendipitous. occupy wall street played a supporting character in our quest to find the truth. and to your point and to your

question about being mocked. it was because the mainstream media quite frankly didn't understand what occupy wall street was all about and what it was trying to achieve. granted, there's a lot of different elements within occupy wall street. but i will say that as a result of what i learned, they connected the dots for me in a way i wouldn't have known otherwise. what was brilliant about it was this huge wave of people that came out. thousands of people around the country to support something that was burgeoning around a truth that people were starting to figure out, that the system no longer works, that it was unsustainable. i will say this. this whole film, this whole process was prologued to what we've created next, called the every man super pac, which is turning the big money in politics upside down. our tagline is it's the mini versus the money. our hope is to be the hypodermic needle in the back of america. >> patrick, adam, thank you so much.

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what is your name? >> peter from c orve-- veto fro corleone. >> drawn by the promise of america that to this day draws in people from around the globe. people believe america is a place where they will have economic opportunities that don't exist in the old country. because the american dream is

available to new and old americans alike. the fact that rampant inequality is making that dream hard to achieve is another story for another day. the american dream is why recent americans are often as openly loving of america as the most patriotic long-term resident. when jeb bush recently spoke of immigration, he spoke with compassion, empathy and an understanding of the moral complexity of the situation from an immigrant's point of view. >> someone who comes to our country because they couldn't come legally, they come to our country because their family is a dad who loved their children, was worried that their children didn't have food on the table. they wanted to make sure their family was intact. they crossed the border because they had no other means to work to be able to provide for their family. yes, they broke the law, but it's not a felony. it's an act of love. >> that sentiment may drown

jeb's presidential suspects, because for some, immigration is a trigger for social darwinism. but jeb is absolutely right. immigrants come to america out of a love to this country and they come out of a love of family, knowing this is a place where they can do more for their family. jeb is right to say we should consider that a different sort of crime. yes, undocumented immigrants who cross the border illegally are breaking t ining the law, but to similar to a way of jean valjean breaking the law, he steals a loaf of bread to feed his sister's child. he is an impoverished person. the mexican is a working class person whose potential as a farmer was damaged by nafta, which crippled mexican farming prospects. that's why mexican born people living in the u.s. have doubled since nafta went into force in 1994.

like valjean, the impoverished immigrant is reduced by economic forces beyond his control to find extreme measures to feed his family. not suggesting poor people should be forgiven for committing crime because they're poor, even though rich people on wall street are routinely forgiven for crimes that hurt millions, but i digress. a core question here is in what circumstances are some crimes understandable? who among us would not do whatever it took to feed our family in a time of extreme economic distress? who cannot understand the urge to cross the border in order to work and thus save your family, and contribute to the economy of your new nation. in the heart of many immigrants is a love of family and a love of this country, and those are the sort of people i want as part of my america. okay, that does it for "the cycle." "now with alex wagner" starts now. a new prosecutor joins the hunt. the interview memoranda are out. and the troubles for camp christie could go well beyond traffic problems. it's monday, april 14th, and

this is "now." >> i have no estimate on when this will be behind me because i don't get to decide. >> breaking news. district attorney cyrus vance jr. has issued a subpoena last month for records from the port authority of new york of new jersey. >> we have the new york federal prosecutor and the new jersey federal prosecutor all working a piece of the case. it sounds like there's something here. >> on the part of mr. wildstein and ms. kelly, some type of nefarious, inappropriate motivation. >> david wildstein who was tossed under the bus by the governor and by his staff, has become an enemy now of governor christie. >> why don't you just get to the question, cut the commentary back a little. >> if anybody is going to do damage, it's going to be david wildstein. >> the political context in this is that chris christie is very much hoping to resume his political career. >> i have no estimate on when this will be behind me because i don't get to decide. >> it sounds like this c