i'm alex wagner in for lawrence o'donnell. you can catch my show here on msnbc weekdays at 4:00 p.m. > batting right. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start with the upcoming battle with hillary clinton and as yet unnamed republican for president of the united states. the list of contest assistants is not promising. if i were hillary clinton, i would be singing to myself, is that all there is? to begin with, the whole republican show at this

weekend's candidate cattle call up in new hampshire looked like a reminder of the party's wild lerch to the right 50 years ago this year when it cheered barry goldwater and booed new york governor nelson rockefeller. >> and warning of the extremist left is dang h danger to the party. [ chanting ] >> that was a bad day at black rock. the hero this time around is rand paul. the one getting the bum's rush is today's version of the east coast establishment favorite, of course, jeb bush. >> i heard jeb bush the other day, and he was talking about people that come into this country illegally, they do it for love. and i said say it again, i didn't get -- that's one i've never heard of before. i heard money, i heard this, i've heard sex, i've heard everything. the one thing i never heard of

was love. i understand what he's saying. but, you know, it's out there. >> well, it was just like that 50 years ago, the right wing taking flight with goldwater just as it's taking flight today with rand paul and ted cruz and mike huckabee, blasting off against the moderate center, as well as the democrats. where's the thinking in all this? the republicans on the right given up on beating hillary clinton in the center? have they given up on beating her all together? or could they truly believe the voters in this country are angry enough to follow them across the political spectrum from barack obama all the way to the ticked off outskirts home to libertarian rand paul and hard right ted cruz. do they really think america is ready for a dance in the moonlight with one of those guys? howard fineman and david corn, both are msnbc prized political analysts. up in new hampshire this weekend at the republican freedom summit, sponsored by the group citizens united as well as the

koch funded americans for prosperity, i love names. the anger of the far right was on full display as "the washington post" reported, based on how things unfolded at the freedom summit, many republicans are perfectly content to continue appealing to the same base that turned out in the 2012 primaries. the most passionate and conservative fringe of the party, without worrying about the potential voters left out. ted cruz was one of the speakers. he got cheers by attacking president obama as lawless and calling for, of course, this cheap shot, abolishing the irs. let's watch. >> liberty has never been more under assault than it is right now. this administration it seem, this president is trying to go down the bill of rights and violate each and every one of them. i tell you, the most important tax reform, we should abolish the irs. >> anyway, newt gingrich also bashed the president. let's watch newtster.

>> part of what makes the obama administration potentially the worst since buchanan, which is really quite a record. buchanan led to a civil war, it's not that they're ideological left be thaw they're incompetent. >> let's watch this. you will not quickly forget this thought. >> my gosh, i'm beginning to think there's more freedom in north korea sometimes thanes there there is in the united states. when i go to the airport, i have to get into the surrender position, people put hands all over me and i have to provide photo id in a coup of different forms and prove that i'm really not going to terrorize the airplane. but if i want to go vote, i don't need a thing. >> dennis rodman has a competitor here. this is whacky. >> yeah. this kind of performance.

are they trying to drive the center and middle of the road with this mess? >> i don't think at this point, if every, they really care about the middle of the road. these are people up in new hampshire and they're doing the same in other early primary states for 2016 of appealing to the very heart of the very most active ultraconservatives they can find. these are the people they need to line up for the campaign. and they don't mind if this is broadcast to the rest of the republican party and the rest of the world. this is who they are. they're proud of it. and the republican wisemen whom i talk to around here are scared out of their wits. >> by this talk? >> by this talk. i was talking to one of the leading fundraisers in the republican party today. he's no liberal. he's a conservative these people scare him, not only because of their ideology, but because of their demographics. these are people who don't seem to know how to appeal beyond the traditional white male base of the republican party and you can't win an election that way.

>> yeah, you know, i think jeb bush will have to explain further, act of love, crossing the border. that's a hard reach for some people. but making fun of it, the way he did it also told another story. this is putting down hispanics. this was a putdown. and he's the guy pushing the birther line from day one. the message is pretty damn clear to black and brown people. this guy is not looking out for your interest politically. >> the gravitational center of the republican party shifted far to the right, you know, 10, 8, 6 years ago and it is stuck in that position. this is why all the talk about chris christie being a front-runner, jeb bush having a good chance, really is irrelevant, because these are the voters they're going to have to get. it's interesting that paul ryan is not in this run up here. i think he's one of the few that can appeal to the tea party base and have a foot in the establish.

by and large, it's a very, very sharp divide between reality and this bizarre world. >> let me ask you my profound question at the end of the show. i bring it up in my last comment. what's the cause and effect here? everybody who watches this kind of program, especially this program "hardball" knows that hillary clinton is an extremely heavy favorite. she'll be hard to beat because of her track record, her resume, who she is, what she means to women, especially. and because she's a good democrat. are they thinking hey, we're not going to beat her, let's have some fun? let's go crazy? or are they thinking the country is willing to go all the way to the right to beat hillary clinton? >> i think the people who spoke up in new hampshire last weekend really believe what they believe. they really believe the country

is ready for a clarion call to reject government essentially. >> get rid of the tsa. >> no tsa, no irs -- >> no health care. >> they really believe that. i give them credit for believing it, but i -- >> do they want to get on a plane with nobody checking them? >> of course not. and they don't want to abolish the irs ooit per. >> you said they really believe it. which is it? >> i think they really do believe it, but the problem they've got is that philosophy, which they're also pursuing in the u.s. senate under mitch mcconnell where they're rejecting all action on everything is not the kind of method that you need to win a presidential election, i don't think. >> i think there is a degree of hucksterism here. >> give me an example. i can think of one right now. ted cruz getting rid of the irs means to some people no more taxes. >> but also the whole point, liberty is under siege in this country, that barack obama is totally incompetent. the guy who got osama bin laden, the guy who saved detroit. all this stuff. newt gingrich who claims to be an historian has to understand if he says he's a -- if he's as

smart as he says he is, that barack obama has achieved a few big thing, yet he gets up there with a straight face and says the guy is a dufus. he has to know better, but it doesn't matter. >> i'll grant you that maybe newt knows better, i'm not sure. and who knows about donald you want to talk about huksterrism, there it is. but i do think the others, i do think that ted cruz and rand paul and mike huckabee very much have -- >> he'll cross the border for sex, by the way. only donald trump can say something like that. he also goes to the dirty part of the mind. casey said that rand paul had the most enthusiastic response with the crowd up there. part of his message was about the need to expand the appeal of the party. smart enough. he called for ending corporate welfare.

this took some stones to talk like that in this crowd. let's watch. >> rich companies don't need your money. and it's an assault for those among us who say we don't have enough money for these other program, but we got enough money for our rich friends. if you want to be consistent, if you want to grow the movement, we cannot be the party of fat cats, rich people and wall street. >> and there was americans for prosperity, paid for by the koch brothers right behind him. and here's what senator paul said about reaching out to the african-american community. here he is. >> parts of our message has to reach out to people who we haven't been hitting, who haven't been listening. the door is not going to open up to the african-american community or the hispanic community until we have something to offer. if you look at the war on drugs, three out of four people in prison are black or brown.

but your kids and grand kids aren't perfect either the police don't come to your neighborhoods. you get a better lawyer. these are some injustices. we have been concerned about injustice. we've got to be concerned about people who may not be part of our group here. may not be here today if we want to grow our message. if we want to grow our movement. >> who let him in the door. that was reasonable. better lawyer? we all know that. rich people get better lawyers. a better chance of skipping town. >> i covered rand paul from the beginning. i think on civil liberties issues, it's the real deal. >> there was no crowd reaction. >> no. most of those people are not libertarians.

that's not going to win him the nomination. they're the lock 'em up crowd. on corporate america, i think he knows better, rand paul. it sounds good. i'm waiting to see a republican really take on corporate america. if it happens for the interests of working people as teddy roosevelt did 100 years ago, more power to you. >> the koch brother the going to close tax loopholes? >> if he continues on that path. he's also in favor of bringing tax downs for 10% and slashing every program that affects the low income american. so he find what he can to talk about, but it really is not a full case. >> he shows he's thinking. jeb bush wasn't at the summit, but in a way his presence was felt. ted cruz got some of the biggest applause lines by opposing the kmop core education mission that core has championed. here's cruz take on jeb. >> you look at the 10th amendment with the federal government trying to intrude into the prerogatives of the states up a across the board, things like trying to set educational standards. we need to repeal common corps. >> there's a nyah, nyah, nyah aspect of that guy that i don't like. >> you have to be against it because it symbolizes big

government, it symbolizes the culture war that they're still fighting that's 20, 30 years old. some people link it to black helicopters and all sorts of crazy conspiracy theorys. and so, i mean, it just shows you between immigration, common core, jeb bush goes out there and he's walking into a shredder. and is he the type of candidate who can get through this? he's going to look as bad as mitt romney. >> i heard he was at a tryout performance for big donors, jeb bush recently. and i asked one of the guys, was he really in it? was he really in it? and this guy said no, he didn't do a good job of faking it. i think jeb bush knows exactly what david says, which is he'll walk into that shredder and it's not his party anymore. it just is not. >> we're learning a lot of this early on in this program. most other people won't know for a year or two. bush is considered a lefty.

anyway, thank you, howard fineman and david corn. both guys are my favorites. coming up, race and the republicans. i mean, race. conservative commentators are outraged that steve israel, the head of the democratic campaign committee says the part of the republican base are animated by racism. when was the last time you saw a conservative take on racism head on. plus, the latest sthu to drop in the christie investigation. subpoenaed documents from the port authority. there are now four investigations, two of them criminal, sparked by this scandal. also, howard dean, he was the hottest democrat of them all ten years ago with a talent for engaging people on a cause. i want to know where he thinks the democratic party should be going right now. he's come on the show. and leave it to bill maher to take down the republicans on

equal pay, the minimum wage and even the kissing congressman. earlier polling has shaheen up

earlier polling has shaheen up by double digits. that's getting close up there. maybe he was right to have republican .

attorney general eric holler sparked a debate about race at the national action network convention just last week when he suggested he and president obama have faced tougher

opposition from the republican right on account of their race. holder's comments may have given voice to what many democrats until now have only dared to think. but this past weekend, stephen israel weighed in on the gop's burgeoning race debate with candy crawlie on cnn. >> do you think you're racist? >> no, of course not. but to a significant extent, the republican base does have elements that are animated by race. >> congressman israel's candor in saying elements of the gop's base is animated by race, and following holder's comments, the national committee accused democrats are playing the old race card. anyway, to distract from obamacare and benghazi, same story there. "the daily beast" in its david column accuses the gop of

willingly turning a blind eye from unsavory elements in their own party. you have to be living a life of willed ignorance and denial to take issue with what israel said. we should not then even be debating whether what israel said is true. sadly we shouldn't even be debating why politicians won't discuss it. none of them have the stones to do so. some, rand paul and others talk in general terms about how the party needs to change and modernize,ing but to spell out what that change and modernization would involve in racial term, no one will confront that. with us the author himself and the director of africana studies. a white guy and a black guy and i'm a white guy. this is always tricky business. we grew up in a country that had slavery for 350 years. we had jim crow for 100. racial segregation in housing which is unbelievable. there's an untold amount in

business which you can't isolate. and then we sit around like purists and say oh, i detected some racism here. it's all around us. we're swimming in it to some extent. and yet we don't know how to define it or limit it or push away from it. we all agree we have to push away from it. what you said to me was unexceptional about the leadership. john boehner refuses, has refused to challenge the nut his mother from kansas headed over to africa, that was insane thinking. but donald trump played that card and he did it with latinos, saying love, made a big joke out of it, coming across the border. >> you should have seep my twitter feed today. but look, there's no question. yes, what percentage it is, chris, we don't know. we can't say that, but in the republican -- the republican

base, elements of the republican base, as israel said, there's no question that there's a lot of racism, there's a lot oof that attitude towards obama. how often do we see some local republican official somewhere send out an e-mail to people with a watermelon patch on the white house lawn or something like that. and then they apologize. >> let me ask you a hard question. if barack obama was a standard left center democrat, which i think he's pretty close to, a regular hubert humphrey, bill clinton democrat and he did nothing on the hard left and he was just sort of a regular democrat, would he be getting this hatred from the other side? >> yes, he would. i don't know, chris. i think of obama has a centrist. i think he's fairly moderate. obama is certainly a moderate centrist and certainly has made so many concessions to the right

that those of us who are thinking about some of these things and interpreting the racial discourses of our nation have got to conclude that race and racism and the racialization of certain discourses is central to how certain -- some of obama's opponents see him. the way we defined race, though, is we should really define it less about interpersonal racism. i don't care if you don't like me because i'm black and more along institutional terms. if it affects large groups of people, denies opportunities to large groups of people, if it stigmatizes or profiles large groups of people, that's important. >> give me an example. >> listen -- >> voter suppression, is that what you're talking about? >> yes. things that disproportionately affect black folk and poor folk, that's racism. if you're shortening voting times, if you're asking people

to get id's, those things can be raciallily sort of codified to understand how they disproportionately affect certain groups over other groups. >> i grew up in philadelphia. one fellow said there's only two issues, race and tax, which is really race. james is close enough to philly to feel this. but if you're against public schools, you're probably -- it's an attitude. most of the kids in public school in philly are black. basically want to screw them? >> of course. >> cut off their spending and whole thing. >> everything gets coated in that way. george wallace said it and lee atwater said it. you can't say black anymore. you can't say that word that george wallace used to say back in the 1950ed. but you say welfare, you say bussing. >> urban. >> black people aren't stupid. they understand this. they know what les james was saying. >> james, you take over here, what's a reasonable way that commentators like us, black and white and brown, hispanic, how do you talk about it without

sounding like you're priscy, above all ethnic loyalties. you have no racial identity at all when everybody has some. and maybe they should have some. how do you establish a standard of political conduct on race? >> right. see, well, i'm much less interested in some kind of color blind tone or toalties and much more interested in talking about the substances of the channels we face. the reality is we're very, very good at focusing on individual sort of incidences around race and racism. there's a project called race forward that did great work. when trayvon martin happened in the media, we will talk about it. it's tougher for us in the media to have the sustained kind of dialogue around institutional racism that's actually required to root it out. you do a great job on your show.

i'm not pannering. you do a great job on your show in doming in politics how race comes up, the race ard card is used oer people use racial situations. the whole conversation around entitlements is racialized. so in the media, we've got to focus more on systems and broad based things that matter and a little bit less on the sensationalized, easy to cover individual incidents of racism. >> yeah, well, it's going to go on. this is america. the best thing about it is we've gotten better. the past ain't so pretty. thank you. please come on again often. bill maher skewers house republicans as only he can. that's coming up in a minute or so. the day we rescued riley was a truly amazing day.

he was a matted mess in a small cage. so that was our first task, was getting him to wellness. without angie's list, i don't know if we could have found all the services we needed for our riley. from contractors and doctors to dog sitters and landscapers, you can find it all on angie's list. we found riley at the shelter, and found everything he needed at angie's list. join today at angieslist.com

president obama this week signed a series of new executive orders intended to strengthen equal pay laws for women. those who support the measure say it's a step forward while those who oppose it can be seen sunday night on amc.

>> that was snl's weekend update when the president's push for equal pay for women in the work place. but has bill mahrer pointed out, the president is having a little more trouble getting equal pay legislation through congress. >> the republicans in congress had quite a week. just on wednesday alone they blocked the equal pay act, they blocked protections for gays in the work place, they blocked an increase in minimum wage, they even blocked an increase in mine safety. if you're a lesbian who's digging up coal for $6 an hour, you had a very bad day on wednesday. >> only bill can talk like that. but when it comes to congressional republicans, one house member from louisiana distinguished himself, you might say in a way i would rather leave to bill mahrer again. here's his take on vance mcalister after less than five months on the job.

>> did you see vance mcallister? do you know who he is? he's the republican congressman from louisiana, ma marry ed. making out with a married staffer. the show is not long enough to show you the entire kiss, but boy, what is it with republican congressmen these days even they're voting against women or they're rubbing against them. >> finally, he figured john boehner may not be at risk for losing his seat in the house, but it doesn't stop a parody of a cialis commercial. and that's all the introduction it needs. >> you make a great team. it's been that way since the day you met. but your eletile dysfunction could be an issue of blood flow. used on a daily basis, it will

help you every time the moment is right. if you have a boehner lasting longer than 23 years, seek medical attention. >> it's boner. >> i'm jd winneregg, and i approve this message. >> there's now another investigation into the george washington bridge scandal. this time it's the manhattan's da division that handles rackets, as well as political corruption with a criminal inquiry into the christie administration. that's ahead.

diplomatic options. putin said the authorities in kiev are to blame. teams will extract data from a sub and analyze it for clues to the missing malaysian airliner. back to "hardball." >> welcome back to "hardball." another port authority official has resigned and the christie administration lawyers have given state investigators hundreds of pages of new developments. we start tonight with the big news. governor christie's office is

now the focus of a second criminal inquiry. prosecutors at the manhattan district attorney's office have opened up their own criminal probe, which so far as issued subpoenas for documents and records involving prt authority construction project ps. "the wall street journal" was the first to break the news. they're reporting now the governor's office is under scrutiny as well. quote, the subpoena speaks correspondent among current and former port authority officials and new jersey governor's chris christie administration. and "the new york times" has learned the inquiry is being duct kukted by the division of the da's office that handles racket and political corruption. and this is the group that according to the attorney general's office conducts long-term investigations into the corrupt activities of criminal enterprises. christie's defense and that of his lawyers is that this was a case of two rogue staffers, two emotional and the other with crazy ideas who shut down the george washington bridge in an isolated incident without anyone else knowing their true motive ps. but if these new stps are any indication, prosecutors are exploring the possibility of a

pattern around the governor's office. representative weinberg, tell me how this hit you. what does it say to you about the grounds in which you're investigating yourself as a legislative committee. >> well, the documents that we have been requesting from randy mastro's office did arrive today in time. they've all been down loaded, and all they do is add to the fact that this report is not worth the paper it's written on. they didn't even interview one person in the port authority. apparently they didn't really want to find out what went on here. they didn't even call the executive director, pat foye, the man who reversed the infamous lane closings on the

george washington bridge. so this report is 430-some-odd pages of more whitewash, is the kindest way -- >> i looked at that list. i didn't recognize hardly any of those 75 names. who are the people they did interview for the randy mastro report. >> staffers in the governor's office, second and third level staffers. people who talked to people. >> loyalists. >> it isn't even good -- it isn't even a good cover-up in my humble opinion. i' been saying that about this from the very beginning. how about asking somebody in the port authority about the so-called traffic study? the thing that the governor insisted right up through the beginning of december was actually in existence. they never asked one person there. i mean, the whole thing is very disconcerting. and randy mastro, i said it before and i'll repeat it again on your show, chris, should be ashamed to have his name on this report.

>> sir, how do you put this in context? this story that the da's office is looking into this thing, it's the division that handles rackets as well as political corruption. what can you get -- tell us the main story. what are they doing at this point? what is the da's office doing, what can you report? >> well, i think that right now they're just starting to get documents back from a subpoena, which was issued in the middle of march. so they're going to be reviewing the materials, organizing it, analyzing it, and looking for evidence of any criminal activity. >> and so what can you derive from the fact that it's the division that handles rackets and capitol hill corruption? is that where you would expect the group to be active in this probe? >> yeah. i mean, i think that they have -- it seems as though they've seen enough that they

feel there's -- that it's worthwhile for them to look into this. and so those are the people who would generally be tasked with doing that. >> would this be the da who would make this call? or is it lore down? >> i would that would be his call. >> in your reporting, here are a few of the port authority deals the new york prosecutors are probing. a $1 billion development deal to rebuild a transit hub. taking over the new york city airport which benefited the commissioner's private law firm. christie appointee david samson. the massive multibillion dollar rebuilding of the world trade center itself. he's a long standing client of samson's law firm. and then there's $1.8 billion in port authority funds that were

diverted to other projects, which benefited christie politically. the da is investigating if that deal legally bypassed law makers or violated securities or income tax laws. i want to go to representative wean berg. food for thought here. it does seem to be that samson, having worked for the governor, does benefit from some of these decisions made out of trenton. >> well, david samson was the former attorney general of the state of new jersey, so i'm assuming that as a very well educated attorney and the former attorney general he knows what the laws are of the state of new jersey, and those laws include not voting on something as the commissioner on the port authority that you or your clients might benefit from. and apparently according to public reports, mr. samson said that inadvertently. he really meant not to vote for it. and they were trying to correct these based upon somebody's notes. so it sounds like they're

attempting to do a do-over here, but i would guess that the manhattan da is apparently looking into that and various other business deals. the port authority handles billions of dollars of public money. a good portion of which are paid by the people who drive over the george washington bridge, the people i represent where as of now it costs $13 to drive over that bridge. >> let me tie this up. samson is the guy at the heart of the cases like the waterfront development project in hoboken, being jammed at dawn zimmer. every time we talk about one of these projects, there's samson the lawyer. it just seems like if i were looking at this thing, well, you worked with christie, stayed part of his political army and afterwards there's some feeding time going on here. >> he was also the head of the governor's transition team when governor christie won and has been a close adviser. >> it looks very sweet to me. looks very sweet.

thank you very much for joaning us. great reporting on there, deadline reporting. up next, howard dean, captivated democratic party people back in 2004, especially young people as the first anti-war presidential candidate to join the iraq war. where he thinks the party needs to be going right now. what's the future for the democrats? not just '14 or '16 but looking forward. they're cloudy. [ doorbell rings ] stall them. [ imitates monkey ] stop stalling. cascade platinum fights cloudy residue 3x better than the competing gel and helps keep your dishwasher sparkling. cascade platinum.

>> former president bill clinton isn't sitting on the sidelines. he's stepping up his travel plans to help candidates in what promises to be an election campaign this year. on june 13, big bill will be the headline speaker for the ohio democrat party. ohio is, of course, a big presidential swing state. former ohio governor ted strickland. >> we have the power to take back the democratic party, you have the power to take the white house back in 2004.

>> we have the power to take back the democratic party, you have the power to take the white house back in 2004. >> that was howard dean announcing his km pain for presidency in 2003. you have the power was repeated all over the trail and used to

create a grassroots movement. but the generation of young people and first time voters who participated in the electoral process in record numbers, inspired by dean and then barack obama's campaigns have relisted launching their own careers in public office. i like john f kennedy and ronald reagan who inspired virtual legislators of politicians and became generational touch stones. proechl has had so far little influence. that's all the mark remarkable that he tapped into volunteerism and community service that pollsters say is widespread and intense among i don't think people. can president obama tap the energy of young people again? to achieve big things in the last three years of his presidency. howard dean was governor of vermont, governor it is so fascinating and dreadful. i'm lucky to meet some really good ones. they talk about joining teach for america, or a city year or

in a rare case, too rare, i would argue, because i was there and learned so much from it, the peace corps. you ask who wants to run for office, it's the odd duck. very few people. you as a young guy were so successful in politics. you as a young guy and the president, what can other people on the progressive side do to get people to get off their butts and run for office. without that it's not going to work out very well for that point of view. >> well, there's two problems, chris. one is the horrendous state that congress is in is populated by people mostly on the republican side that put their party in front of their country. there should be some ability to work together, and there just isn't because the minority party just refuses to do it. the majority in the house. and so that's part of it. but the real issue has nothing to do with obama or anybody else. it's the internet. why would you put 30 years of

your life into politics building a career and hope to participate in three or four major issues maybe when you can go online and find 100,000 people and get stuff done right away? we all marched around the pentagon and all these things over the vietnam war. took us seven years to shut the war down. they went online for three days and got rid of one of the very few bipartisan bills three years ago because they thought it was biased towards the content provider. the internet is such a strong tool. they really believe they don't need politics. it's become irrelevant.

>> does that mean you don't have to get off your chair? you just work with a laptop. is that it? is that the future? laptop existence because people don't go door-to-door, they don't give good speeches, they don't arouse people, they don't load. i question that. i know i'm putting words in your mouth. your way of saying it. >> you are putting words in my mouth. but it's legitimate. there is a crew that we called slacktivists that does everything on a laptop. but as you point out, there's a lot, lot more working in creating empowerment communities there and changing everything. i know of a woman 18 years old. she's now 25. she did it herself. inner education city. you're a veteran of the civil rights movement. you got into politics shortly after all that was going on, served in congress under tip o'neil in terms of working for him. you remember those days. with these guys just going on, they don't make speeches.

they don't do those things. they just go out and get it done. teach for america and this younger generation is revolutionizing education in the inner city and neither democrats or republicans were able to do that over 40-year period. >> let's get personal now. what i really like about your campaign, besides the fact that you're the first guy to get out and fight the iraq war, way ahead of john kerry, as you know, way ahead of everybody with the possible exception of the president. you were ahead of him. you were out there hustling. my son michael worked for you. he served in rwanda. so we're very proud of you did. but that thing about you, you, i don't feel the president has been able -- except in the scam pain itself, both campaigns, which he's very effective at, getting the interactive going. getting people engaged like jack kennedy did back in the '60s when i was still in high school. and he would say things like "ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country."

that spirit is not there. you say it's there on the laptop. i don't think it's there. >> no, i think it is there. i agree. the laptop is the organizing model. but the fact is there are tons and tons of kids in the field. what isn't there is the reverence and expectation that politics is the way to fix all this. a lot of way into politics was law. a lot of law school's applications were down 30% to 40% last year. that's partly because of student debt and partly because people don't think you need that education to change things. except for the refusal to get anything done, which is not necessary. i really don't blame the politicians for this one. i think they've just been bypassed by the net. and they don't offer much of a model. you have a bunch of people running around congress who are really interested in themselves, not interested in the country. i think this younger generation is interested in the country. and they're not as some of their elders portray them sit and playing video games. are there people like that? yes. but the top 15 or 20% of any generation defines the generation. i think this generation is already going to have a great legacy. unfortunately, politics is

probably not something they'll be interested in. >> i don't think there are many bill clintons or howard deans running around. when i look at the list for united states senate candidates, i'm appalled. these are weak, weak aaa candidates and one of them is going to win. in the old days the united states senate was made up of a lot of great people. now there's a lot of not great people in the united states senate and the bar gets lower and lower. i'm sorry. i'm getting old. it's what i see. governor howard dean. the man who invented the word you. you can do this. we'll be right back after this. [ female announcer ] some people like to pretend a flood could never happen to them. and that their homeowners insurance protects them. [ thunder crashes ] it doesn't. stop pretending. only flood insurance covers floods. ♪ visit floodsmart.gov/pretend to learn your risk.

let me finish tonight with this thing we started with this, this wild lurch of the republicans that when they're taking to the right in preparation for 2016. i do wonder about the cause and effect here. f are the republicans heading hard because they know they can't beat hillary clinton so they may as well have a good time losing? do what they feel like doing? saying what they deeply believe? not what will sell. or is it a cyclical thing, that both political parties go with their guts, to abandon the main channel and go off like the republicans did back in '64 with barry goldwater. like the democrats did with george mcgovern. in either case it's probably not definitely but probably spells defeat. it means one party. in this case the republicans coming up staking out the right while the other party stakes out the left and the center. what a strange thing to be doing for the republicans. eight years of being locked out of the white house, they give the other party, the democrats, such an advantage right up

front. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. and to our friends celebrating tonight, have a happy passover. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. hundreds of armed demonstrators faced off with the federal government in southern nevada over the weekend, and the federal government blinked. just another reminder that whether or not the law is enforced depends on who you are and whether or not you have the right wing media on your side. >> battle of big government versus the rancher. >> it's big government versus the rancher and mr. bundy is not backing down. >> when push comes to the shove when it comes to the constitution, folks aren't going to back down. >> i'll be honest, we saw what happened at waco, i'm concerned. >> right now the biggest story in the right-wing media is the face-off between federal agents and than