loud bang before the ferry lost control. >> rescuers are scrambling to locate survivors from that ferry disaster. amid fears that the death toll could rise drastically. >> i've repeatedly voted for sanctions against iran. >> rand paul is on the defensive from critics in his own party. >> by golly, we will never stand for that, they're now voting for war. >> some republicans are crying foul. >> i will not rest until this injustice is fixed. >> while the weekly standard was the first to catch on to the reenactment of the senator's campaign defending the ads saying the reshoots were necessary forbidding the use of senate material in political ads. >> let me say, i think i'm in love. today marks seven years since a gunman opened fire at virginia tech.

murdering 32 people. and today, a billionaire politician announced he is taking the fight to the country's powerful gun lobby. why does this matter? well, the push for gun safety has stopped. in the year following the newtown massacre, for instance, states enacted 70 laws loosening gun restrictions, twice the number of laws strengthening controls. this is an issue that tears our hearts out with each new massacre and we do nothing. michael bloomberg wants to change all that. he's spending $50 million to back every town for gun safety. you hear what i'm saying? use the nra's own playbook against it. >> this is not a battle of dollars. this is a battle for the hearts and minds of america so we can protect our children, protect innocent people. we're the only civilized country in the world that has this problem. we have to do something. >> joining me now, laurie hass,

whose daughter is a survivor of the virginia tech shooting. she's now with the coalition to stop gun violence. also former colorado state senate president john morse. he was forced out in a recall election in september of last year after helping to pass gun control laws following those horrific shootings in both aurora, colorado, and in newtown, connecticut. laurie, you became an advocate after your daughter was shot. and tragedy, as we mentioned, again and again has failed to change this debate. is there any reason to think michael bloomberg is going to succeed? >> absolutely. i think that the debate among politicians is not moving forward. but with the folks and communities, neighbors, friends and families back home, it is -- the debate has changed. and americans across this country want our politicians and our elected leaders to do something about gun violence. i think that mayor bloomberg's effort is spot-on. every town is affected by gun violence.

many communities, many neighborhoods, many families, and we're prepared to do something about it. and i think he will use his dollars, and influence, and hopefully his strong voice and presence to move this debate away from our communities and into the politicians and legislatures where it needs to happen. and where we need to have better gun laws in this country. to keep our children safe. >> that does seem to be michael bloomberg's approach, they want to mobilize at a grass roots level. john, you were recalled from office, as we mentioned, after championing stronger gun control laws. that was after the aurora shootings, after the newtown shootings, at a point in which one would think the public would be behind strengthening that control. do you think others back the gun control measures? >> i don't. i think what happened in colorado is extraordinarily unique. keep in mind, in my recall election, nearly 80% of the

registered voters did not cast a ballot. it was at a bizarre time. it was a special election that nobody really was paying attention to. everybody figured, he's going to be fine because we know he believes in the community and he does the right things. and people just didn't show up. they were able to eliminate mail-in ballots. the early voting centers, three of four of them are outside my district, and i live in a poor district where people have to take the bus to vote. so they did a good job of suppressing the vote. i don't think people are really taking a close look at what's happened, and say, wow, if you support gun safety, you're going to end up losing your political career. i don't think generally that's true. certainly it was true to me. but it fired things up -- i'm talking to you on national tv six months later. so this is still a huge issue and something that we can continue to fight, and we need to fight. and unfortunately, too many politicians are taking a wait-and-see attitude instead of understanding they need to lead

in this case instead of follow. >> it's clearly still a big issue, but there's still a huge opposition to these measures that are still mobilized. and the kinds of suppression in your state are in place around the country, don't you think that other candidates do have to contend with that kind of nra-backed initiative to keep sympathetic voters away from the polls? >> we need to do everything on the other side, and i'm happy to see michael bloomberg still involved in the fray. but 85% of the people support background checks. more than 50% of the people support limits on large capacity magazines, because you don't need a large capacity magazine to go deer hunting. the public is already here. we've got to just mobilize them a little bit. because you're right. the folks on the other side, the public, the small portion of the public, the 15% of the public that's on the other side, they show up religiously, and the rest of us need to show up religiously, too.

>> state senator morse, you're right to state it's nuanced that bloomberg is going to lengths that hunters won't have guns taken away, these are about background checks for people with mental problems, criminals. one aspect that makes it tough is he has targeted democrats who he feels are not sufficiently supportive of gun control. take a look at what his advertisements in the past have done. >> in a race to replace jessie jackson, look out for halvorson. she got an "a" from the nra. the nra, against comprehensive background checks, against banning assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition clips. >> laurie, do you think michael bloomberg risks alienating the politicians he needs to make this change happen? >> no, actually, i don't think it's a risk in the political sense that you're speaking of. we know different here in

virginia. senator cain won despite many hundreds of thousands of dollars spent against him by the nra. he's won every office he's ever run for with an "f" rating. in 2013, terry mcauliffe, ralph northrum, all ran on a gun safety message. you know, and wanting to keep their community safe. and all virginians safe. i think the power and influence of the nra is greatly inflated. i think that they don't win when they spend money on competitive races. they win when they spend money on races that are a shoo-in, and a definite win in those different districts. i'd like to just deflate the impression that people have that they're the all powerful nra. their own membership wants background checks. so this is about keeping

americans and citizens, our communities, our neighbors, families safe from gun violence. regulations regarding who access to a firearm are not mutually exclusive to the second amendment. and we know better. and then the supreme court has ruled in on that. i think we can do a better job than we're doing now. too many children are getting killed by guns. and i thank mayor bloomberg for standing up and saying he's going to put his money where his mouth is. we want to get america safer for our children. >> and hopefully that will resonate on both sides of the aisle. we're talking about background checks specifically. nevertheless, it seems like at a grass roots level there may be an uphill battle in numbers that do mystify some, even in the wake of these tragedies, we've seen a chipping away of gun restrictions at a state level. there's a new bill right now in california, in favor of open carry. we saw what happened in colorado that we've been talking about.

why do you think on a state level that we're seeing that? i'll put this to you, laurie, since you've been around the country asking families about this. why a push for slacker rules on guns? >> i think one thing that has happened at the state level is a gerrymandering of districts. we've had redistricting in virginia, and the districts do not represent the people of virginia. do not represent their views on this subject at all. there's a minority in control that it kowtows to the gun lobby. and we've seen that in these laws that get passed. you have college and university presidents standing up and saying, we don't want this policy. and politicians throwing a bone to the gun lobby, passing them anyway. so we've seen what happens when a minority gets in control in state legislatures. and we're doing what we can to change that. and i think that as things happen, like in virginia, where

we have success at the state level, and we have success with elections, policies will begin to change. i think people are looking at things very differently. you know, the gun lobby did not get anything in virginia this year, despite a surgence of laws that got in. we're very proud of that here in virginia. i think change comes a little slower than we would like, but it's going to happen. and i'm absolutely convinced of that. >> john, as we part ways, are you optimistic at the state level? >> absolutely. here in colorado, they tried to undo everything we did last year. and they failed flatly. so they didn't undo a single thing. and weren't able to do a thing to undo -- to make life easier for people, illegal -- people with illegal intent to get hold of guns. >> thank you so much both of you. we should note we have reached out to the nra for comment on this and we're still awaiting for their response. we will be back with more of

this story. but first, just ahead on our daily, open a newspaper today, and everybody's got an opinion on how president obama should approach the crisis in ukraine. well, we've got an opinion. up next. ameriprise asked people a simple question: in retirement, will you outlive your money? uhhh. no, that can't happen. that's the thing, you don't know how long it has to last. everyone has retirement questions. so ameriprise created the exclusive.. confident retirement approach. now you and your ameripise advisor can get the real answers you need. well, knowing gives you confidence. start building your confident retirement today.

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[ male announcer ] troubleshoot, manage appointments, and bill pay from your phone. introducing the xfinity my account app. welcome back. today in ukraine, pro-russian forces stormed more government buildings, demanding secession. even as ukrainian forces that are meant to protect the peace bailed and joined the russians. this was the scene in eastern ukraine this morning. tanks bearing the russian flag, but they're ukrainians who switched sides.

jim maceda traveled to the town in the heart of the region occupied by pro-russian militia. >> reporter: hi, ronan. we're finding ourselves in a bizarre, almost surreal situation here. behind me you see what is a tank, obviously, a small tank, part yesterday of the ukrainian national army, along with five or six other arp mored troop vehicles scattered throughout this park that i'm in here in slavyansk, part of donetsk. it has been occupied by pro-russian m lish yeahmen. these were part of that army. today they are part of the opposition force, because in between, there has been a defection, we're told, by individuals who are now asleep, catching up on rest because they're already preparing military operations on the other side. so, what is happening next?

we asked these individuals, are they afraid of this standoff? mushrooming into something very big and dangerous? they said, at this point, no. they are not too concerned about the threat coming from the ukrainian national army, unless the west gets involved, at which point they will request help from vladimir putin, and russia. and when i replied, won't that trigger a third world war, they said, that's not what they want, but they're prepared to fight. back to you, ronan. >> nbc's jim maceda in eastern ukraine. so the growing cracks in the ukraine's foundations are triggering calls for more aggressive engagement from president obama. one memo co-authored by wesley clark and reported by "the new york times" today called the current lack of u.s. military assistance, quote, seriously flawed and in need of, quote, immediate correction. clark and other officials are adamant that america, the one

who should be providing what they describe as nonlethal military aid, vehicles, armor, intelligence, they're also part of a vanguard of defense officials who too often counsel military endanglements with foreign enforcements that are hard to walk back. do we need a generation of ukrainian soldiers disenchanted with america's role in the region, but fortified by american support. can we understand the implications of that ten years from now, 20 years from now. to dive into the reasons to engage, and the reasons not to, are jeffrey sachs, the columbia university economist, and adviser to the russian government, and former u.n. ambassador bill richardson. professor sachs, you were just in ukraine a week ago. how desperately do these forces there need support? >> well, the situation is as dangerous as we just saw. and if putin either uses these proxies or steps over the

eastern boundary of ukraine, i think the consequences are going to be unavoidably pretty devastating. but i think the first stop is going to be a complete economic war. that would be my guess. >> i want to get to the economic implications of this. governor richardson, on this question of more military aid, do you think the calls for that are correct? >> no, i think they should be on the table. i don't think we need to provoke russia. the situation is very dire. there's no question about it. these are proxies by the russian government, these militias. we know what russia's intent is. but i think what we need to do is continue with strong sanctions which we're contemplating, and secondly, there's going to be a foreign minister's meeting very soon in geneva. let's see what the russians do. my view is that there's some

also political situation, military situations within the ukrainian government. there are guys, we support them, but there's going to be a presidential election in may. there may be a change in leadership. i worry, ronan, about the ukrainian military making threats that they're going to step in, and then they don't do it. i think by escalating with non-lethal aid, i think it should be on the table, nonetheless, at this time, before the final diplomatic initiatives come through in the next couple of days, and we know what kind of sanctions we're going to put on russia. i think they're premature. what i'd like to see, for instance, is economic models by people like jeffrey sachs that know how to go into a country, and build it up economically. that's what i would like to see short-term. and i hope the imf package of $2 billion is not just budget

support, but includes some of the measures that people like jeffrey had put forward in other countries. >> so, governor, let's talk about the specifics of what you're saying we should keep on the table. sorry, general clark and others described this as non-lethal support, which sounds very innocuous. isn't this also the kind of support that builds long-term capacities? we're talking about vehicles, tej sharing, training. is that the kind of long-term capacity building that we want to leave behind in this complex situation right now? >> well, i also think that's a valid question. we do want to build up the ukrainian military. they have nothing right now. but the problem is, that ukrainian military unified. you see all these defections. do they have a political purpose. do they have a military purpose. that's unsure. but right now to escalate, even if it sounds like it's goggles

and trucks and body armor, you are escalating. you don't want to give the russians a pretext for a provocation that says, look, the united states is arming the opposition, the cia director was just there, we're going to go in with a full-scale invasion. we don't want to do that. we don't want to provoke them right now. we need to be strong. i think our biggest lever is economic sanctions. and if they happen in the energy and the banking sector, which is being contemplated, that's where the russians will feel the bite, because they're in an international economy. >> it's the biggest lever, but perhaps one of the biggest threats. professor sachs, what do you think about the possibility of economic devastation wrought upon not just ukraine, but their european partners who depend on the oil pipelines by the russians? >> i think the first thing for everybody to understand is that there is really a line. it hasn't been crossed yet.

and that is eastern ukraine. if putin really tries to take it either by this obvious proxy method, and says, okay, we annex this region, or steps in militarily, i don't think we're coming back to normalcy. we're going to be really in a spiral of sanctions and pretty hard blows economically. i don't think anybody wants to see ukraine devastated militarily in a civil war. we don't want ukraine to look like syria, which is a blood bath and a disaster right now. we don't want to trigger world war iii. these are really serious matters. that line has not been crossed. but if it is crossed, i don't think any party on the western side, whether it's europe or the united states is going to have any option but to say, we withdraw all economic linkages, and that is going to provoke russia to stop gas shipments.

that won't devastate europe, but it will be hard hit. europe's strong larger economy and richer economy than russia. russia will have to pay its bills and it won't be able to pay its bills after this. so i think russia's walking into a long-term, massive amount of pain. i think this is absolutely nothing rational. but what he's trying to do -- or i shouldn't say that. this is threats so far. but if he -- if putin carries beyond the threat and the saber rattling to actual incursion, the costs for russia will be huge. >> and maybe the fact that europe next door to this feels that threat more acutely is why all these calls are directed at barack obama, and not a lot of them at europe. we'll see how the buck falls in the days to come. thank you so much, jeffrey sachs and bill richardson. hollywood takes a bold new step into a post-racial society, or does it. our panel today looks at how far the melting pot has melted.

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welcome back, everybody. a striking story is unfolding right this moment off the coast of south korea. rescuers are racing to save hundreds of missing people after a ferry carrying mostly high school students overturned and sank. at least six people are confirmed dead. officials fear that number could rise drastically, with nearly 280 people still unaccounted for. rescuers in the air and at sea pulled passengers to safety one by one from the water. some passengers complained the ferry operator made an announcement asking that people wait and not try to escape to safety. we will continue to follow that developing story throughout the day here on msnbc. making headlines around the world, remember, while we look at the headlines, we're also looking at which underreported story you want us to cover next.

send us your nominations on twitter and facebook using #rfd under. we haven't forgotten about your last choices. we'll bring you the story you voted for most about trash in our oceans later this week. just ahead, we'll bring you your runner-up choice, gmos in our food in america. we look at how just today in vermont they are shaking things up on this very subject, and we'll get a take on why you should care. salesperson #1: so, again, throwing in the $1,000 fuel reward card is really what makes it like two deals in one. salesperson #2: actually, getting a great car with 42 highway miles per gallon makes it like two deals in one. salesperson #1: point is there's never been a better time to buy a jetta tdi clean diesel. avo: during the first ever volkswagen tdi clean diesel event, get a great deal on a jetta tdi. it gets 42 highway miles per gallon.

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and that's epic, bro, we've forgotten just how good good is. good is setting a personal best before going for a world record. good is swinging to get on base before swinging for a home run. [ crowd cheering ] good is choosing not to overshoot the moon, but to land right on it and do some experiments. ♪ so start your day off good with a coffee that's good cup after cup. maxwell house. ♪ good to the last drop we are back with stunning new video that has surfaced allegedly showing a huge gathering of al qaeda militants who recently escaped from a yemen prison.

a terrorist watchdog group posted the clip on youtube. it showed al qaeda's number two in command. joining me to look why this is so significant, pentagon correspondent mick. explain what we see in this video and why americans should care about it. >> ronan, u.s. officials acknowledge this appears to be an authentic al qaeda video, like we saw during the osama bin laden era. what's troubling about this one, though, is that they're in yemen. a group this size, and the number two core al qaeda leader, nasr -- the number two al qaeda leader, they felt like they were comfortable enough that they could conduct this meeting in the open. expose to the open skies, and one of the reasons, according to u.s. officials, may be because

u.s. drone vistrikes in yemen he been seriously curtailed. all military drone strikes have been halted by order of the yemenese government after civilian casualties. even if a u.s. drone were in that area, according to u.s. officials, the process by which one can get approval to launch that kind of strike is much more stringent now. and it may have been difficult. now, i can tell you that no u.s. officials will acknowledge that they knew about this meeting in advance, or that they had any drones in the area. but what's most troubling about this is that al qaeda in yemen provides the most serious threat to the homeland here in the united states. and this is precisely where this video was taken, ronan.

>> we'll see what the fallout there is for lack of action. thank you so much. now, we turn to the fight over labeling genetically modified foods. that fight is unfolding right this moment in vermont where the state senate has just convened and are about to vote any moment on a measure that would require foods containing those genet genetically modified ingredients to say so. it would be the first in the nation to enact a law requiring genetically modified foods to have those labels. but there are more than 60 legislative proposals in two dozen states that would propose some sort of mandatory labeling. that's something kansas congressman would say would put an unfair burden on businesses. in the national congress, he said it would create federal standards. interesting debate. every major scientific and regulatory group from the fda to

the world health organization has declared that genetically modified crops are safe. last year a team of scientists reviewed 1,783 documents from the past decade and concluded, quote, the scientific research conducted so far has not detected any significant hazards directly connected with the use of genetically engineered crops. however, that hasn't stopped the intensity of the debate over gmos, coming from people who want these foods labeled, including my next guest. celebrity chef tom, founder of craft restaurants, on "top chef," excellent show. it puts a spotlight on americans struggling with hunger and food insecurity. thank you so much for joining, tom. >> of course, thanks. >> i understand that you where possible avoid using gmos in your restaurant's food. >> we to. listen, there's -- i believe that gmos should be labeled.

i should be able to have a decision what i serve my guests in my restaurant. but as a father, what i serve my children. we're not asking to get rid of them, we just want them labeled. i started an action that went up 24 hours ago, and so far we have 70,000 signatures. this is done through frito.com. the overwhelming majority of people want the gmos labeled. there may not be any conclusive health issues associated with the gmos. but if you look at the soil, and placing products on these crops and wiping out everything, and now have bugs resistant to phosphates, and you need to add more powerful products in the environment. >> there are crops that have been genetically modified, and

it addresses the goal that you care about, about hunger. >> the argument is that it increases yield, and there's a lot of evidence saying that it doesn't increase yield at all. that yields actually through other types of farming are actually as good, if not better. so it's a somewhat disingenuous. also, there was a rice lice wiping out crops around the world. so they added materials to be resistant to this lice. monsanto came in and bought up the right to it. but it was already, i guess, rice council had some agreement with the jen geneticist. and now it's sitting on a shelf not being used. it's disingenuous saying they're doing it for the benefit of

society. >> they're holding good gmos. >> all we're asking is this be labeled, nothing more than that. >> when they are labeled, would you still elect not to use them in your restaurant's foods? >> right now, i can't tell. if you're buying organic, no, you're not getting gmo food. >> is there a taste argument here? >> i think there's a taste argument -- we're talking about commodity crops, corn, things like that. we're talking about animal feed and things like that. i think there's much of a taste difference. we're not talking about things like broccoli and tomatoes. although, one day we could see that. >> we've been looking all week long at hunger and food insecurity around the country. a lot of people we talked to expressed hopes there would be increases in crop yield, in technology. you don't buy it? >> no, we're not seeing it. >> there's definitely literature on both sides of this. you think that's not worth presenting? all right. you support the state level

initiatives. what do you think of federal measures like the one we were talking about? >> well, i think that the states should be allowed to put this together. what gmo producers are concerned about is a patchwork of laws. if there's a patchwork of laws that are created, they'll have to change the labeling. if you look at the argument that food prices would go up because they have to change the packaging. >> you think it could cause confusion? >> i think so. there's no reason not to do this. let people decide for themselves. the argument is, if it's labeled, people aren't going to buy that. if that's the case, let the markets actually figure that out. >> we hear you loud and clear. thank you for joining us. >> thanks. we will be back with more of our calls to action throughout the week. we're focusing on the 49 million americans who are food insecure, do not have access to healthy food, with i could lead to serious health complications. are you closer to fresh food or fast food? let us know on twitter, facebook

or by e-mail. just ahead, the tanning of america. is the promise of a post-racial society unbelievable or inevitable? our panel has the answers, next. ameriprise asked people a simple question: can you keep your lifestyle in retirement? i don't want to think about the alternative. i don't even know how to answer that. i mean, no one knows how long their money is going to last.

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[ female announcer ] boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a delicious taste. grandpa! [ female announcer ] stay strong, stay active with boost. i wanted you to look at hip-hop differently. i want you to see hip-hop is becoming something real. i gave you what the streets felt like, what it sounded like, tasted like, smelled like. and i tried to capture it like no one else could. >> he captured it like no one else. that was a look at time is illmattic, the documentary about naz's album, and it is leading the 2014 tribeca film festival tonight. that premiere is the latest sign

of mainstream entertainment institutions embracing hip-hop culture. it extends to music, clothing, pop culture. the question, does that make for a more color-blind america. that's what one of my next guests argues in the book "the tanning of america." steve stout, entrepreneur and former music executive. he's here with my kayla angela davis, and honored recently by b.e.t. all right. thank you so much, both of you, for joining. >> i speak for both of us that we're both happy to discuss this topic. >> so happy. >> it's been a long time waiting. >> you're very optimistic in this book "the tanning of america," that this will create a new generation that is perhaps color-blind. i think many of us experience life in the opposite way. i grew up where races had rocks hurled at them all the time.

what do you think that impacts the role models? >> i think in the last 25 years, hip-hop has done so much to bring race relations together. because it removed the barriers of entry. everyone can get into it. it was like, there's a culture, whether you like this particular song or that song, there was something about the music videos, you liked, certain artists you liked, and it went against things you had heard in the past that maybe your parents didn't understand. there's a generation now of kids who grew up where no longer does their ethnicity what they value culturally. i think hip-hop culture did that. >> i would love to believe that's something that will stick. a counterargument, a recent poll found 51% of those polled expressed racist attitudes. even in these recent times with barack obama, a black president, with changing attitudes in the way you describe kurt actually. are you as optimistic? >> yes. particularly about youth culture, and millennials. i want to push back on the idea of color-blindness. because i think people are more

color brave. they're more aware. they're more conscious. they're more connected to people, whether it's social media that connected them, and hip-hop definitely was, this, like call to young people to connect. they connected through the feeling. it was fun, it was swaggy, it had everything that young people are -- >> style, language. >> economics, art, literature. >> it wouldn't stop. look, as evidenced by -- there's no african-american section on facebook. i mean, it's -- it's just your friends. you can't look at people and do that no more. it's a generational thing. it simply was a generational thing. i don't know where the 51% polling came from. >> and what the age range is. i think it's not a small thing that it's opening the tribeca film festival. >> a white culturist

historically? >> a hipster. >> we think skinny jeans and brooklyn. >> so this -- you know, it's 20 years old. a lot of people, black men, this was the album that changed the game. that this is arguably a lot of people's best hip-hop album of all-time. particularly young men. so this idea that these stories, and i think that's what's really compelling about hip-hop, too, aside from the other ancillary cultural things, the narratives are coming from young america. and i think that's what really captures people's hearts. >> the generational issue is so interesting. it is the shining hope, that the new generation will grow up different. one of my favorite comments came from oprah, she talked about look, there are these people from an older generation that grew up marinating in prejudice, and that wasn't their fault, it came from all sides. you think she'll end the sentence in a moderate way, and she said, those people just need

to die. do you think ultimately that's what it takes, the passage of time? >> it's interesting, hip-hop is arguably 30, 35 years old. so people who are 50, 60, have a record they rock to in their heart. we have to think about the span of this culture and how it is really great american culture. like blues, like jazz. this is an extension of that. i think that's what naz and ig mattic is so profound, because his father comes from a blues culture. so you saw the extension from manchester, queens. that's an american story. that's our journey. and so this album, this culture tells a great american journey. >> we see this documentary about this album, the film more changing attitudes in hollywood. nevertheless, the "l.a. times" did a poll and found 94% of academy voters are white. a lot of them are old. 2% black. what do you think, steve?

it's an uphill battle, right? >> well, it's been -- look, the film industry, or the -- whether the grammy committee, and i commented on that a few years ago, or the academy award committee -- >> predominantly white. >> yeah. when you start getting to the top in the voters, and the bodies that vote on the music, of course. things need to shift over time. you know, in the book, "the tanning of america," i speak about that. i also believe that if you read that book, you understand what's taking place in the dynamics, it is actually better at the generation understanding their kids and to think the way their kids think, and why they dress the wade thy they dress. you hatch a generation of people who don't see color, and it's down to the food, the food that they're trying. gentrification is going a long

way in bringing people together and changing the way people feel about understanding other people's culture. once the barriers are gone and curiosity is there, anything's possible. and i think that's the reason why this young >> well, there's a lot of reasons for optimism, and hold those thoughts because our panel is going to stick around as we ask why a controversial new york police unit is making a lot of americans question whether racial profiling is a necessary evil or just plain evil. stay with us. ♪

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all right. we are back with our panel extraordinaire. you hear them laughing here. we're having a good time here. steve stout and michaela davis. we'll need their help because we have a controversial heroes and zeros coming right up. we are talking about the members of the nypd's demographics unit.

it was created after the 9/11 attacks with help from the cia. officers would quietly monitor members of the muslim community targeting muslim-owned businesses and mosques across new york city. until today. the nypd just announced that the unit has been disbanded, and testifying under oath, one nypd official admitted the program hasn't led to a single terror investigation. but it took years of protests and a lawsuit against the nypd to get to this point. muslim groups and civil rides advocates arguing that this is a violation of their rights. at least one new york lawmaker today, though, argues that the program is a necessary tool for police. >> 99% -- 99.9%, whatever number you want to use of muslims are good americans. but the fact is the islamic terrorist threat comes from the muslim community and good detective work means knowing who is in that community. >> well, that's peter king with a practical argument on this. i've got to tell you, there are

really divided opinions on team rfd about this. we discussed this in our meeting. we couldn't decide hero or zero. personally this gets me a zero for me. this is a policy that violates american precepts, following people around. >> i think it's kind of a no-brainer. it feels, you know, racist and bigoted, and it caused descriptions in communities and neighborhoods for no cause. and you know, i was telling you on the break that rachel maddow had an amazing conversation yesterday about how we target muslims but don't look at also our own homeland terrorism and have these special groups to really look at white supremists and those violations. >> and we just saw an anti-semitic killing. >> exactly. we notice that. the community notices who was targeted, who was ice late sola was considered dangerous, and that creates tensions. and these are people of color,

too, so we can relate. >> steve? >> i'm not going to be controversyial. i'm just used to it. when i was in the record business, they would target if you had a cadillac escalade in new york city. if you had a cadillac escalade and you were in the record business, in the hip-hop business, they would target you. i'm kind of used to it. of course it's a zero. i think there's much better intelligence at going about finding terrorism than looking at people and going, you're muslim. maybe it may be you. that's not fair. you should do a little bit more homework than just targeting somebody's religion in order to do that. >> well, in that case, today counts as progress. thank you both of you. a pleasure to have both of you. that wraps things up for today. i'll be back on at 1:00 p.m. eastern time tomorrow. "the read record" is up next. peace, everybody. ♪ no two people have the same financial goals. pnc works with you to understand yours

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happy wednesday, everybody. welcome to "the reid report."

i'm joy reid. here's what we have coming up this hour. new details on former new york mayor michael bloomberg's $50 million push to put some grass-roots activism behind reducing gun violence. also, the census bureau is changing the way it tallies who has health insurance and who doesn't. so naturally, republicans are completely freaking out. we'll calmly bring you the facts. but first, a quick alert on a desperate situation in south korea where a frantic search for survivors is under way. south korean officials say at least four people are confirmed dead, and nearly 300 people are still missing after a ferry filled mostly with students capsized off the coast. with more than half of the 462 aboard still unaccounted for, officials fear the death toll could rise dramatically. cnbc's eunice yeun has more details. >> reporter: this could be south korea's biggest peacetime disaster in 20 years. the 459 people were on board a 480 foot long vessel that could fit 900 passengers. the ferry