i'm joy reid. here's what we have coming up this hour. new details on former new york mayor michael bloomberg's $50 million push to put some grass-roots activism behind reducing gun violence. also, the census bureau is changing the way it tallies who has health insurance and who doesn't. so naturally, republicans are completely freaking out. we'll calmly bring you the facts. but first, a quick alert on a desperate situation in south korea where a frantic search for survivors is under way. south korean officials say at least four people are confirmed dead, and nearly 300 people are still missing after a ferry filled mostly with students capsized off the coast. with more than half of the 462 aboard still unaccounted for, officials fear the death toll could rise dramatically. cnbc's eunice yeun has more details. >> reporter: this could be south korea's biggest peacetime disaster in 20 years. the 459 people were on board a 480 foot long vessel that could fit 900 passengers. the ferry set sail tuesday from

a port city near seoul to an island known as south korea's hawaii. along the southwestern coast en route to teju island. eyewitnesses say there was a loud bang and the ferry lost control. the ship sent out a distress call, but survivors say there was confusion among the passengers about where to go. most of those on board were students on a field trip. their parents are overwrought, looking for information about their children. now, rescuers including the u.s. navy arrived at the scene, airlifting passengers to safety one by one. south korean authorities now say that the rescue operation will continue throughout the night to find the hundreds still missing. over to you. >> thanks, that was cnbc's eunice yeun reporting. now to other big story. this afternoon a new lobbying group formed by michael bloomberg is rolling out the first of its national initiatives. backed by a $50 million of bloomberg's money. to promote gun safety. the group is called every town for gun safety. it merges two previous groups,

moms demand action for gun sense in america and bloomberg's mayors against illegal guns. and its media plan includes this video highlighting gun-related accidental deaths. they're hoping the video will be shared by their 1.5 million supporters. the group is also launching a grass-roots gun-sense voter campaign in more than a dozen states today aimed at getting gun-sense voters to pledge to only vote for candidates who support gun safety reform. and to withhold support from those who don't. every town says it's already signing up people in states like new hampshire and indiana. specifically, the group is looking to mobilize women, to help add 1 million more supporters and ultimately expand background checks. as mayor bloomberg told savannah guthrie on the "today" show this morning. >> this is not a battle of dollars. this is a battle for the hearts and minds of america so that we can protect our children, protect innocent people. we're the only civilized

couldn't fridcountry that has this problem. this is simply making sure that people everybody agrees should not be allowed to buy a gun, criminals, minors and people with psychiatric problems, make sure they can't buy guns. >> the gun lobby has done a good job over the last 30 years of making minority afraid of taking people's guns away. as a mother i'm afraid someone's going to take my children away. >> bloomberg told "the new york times" that it's an organization he hopes can eventually outmuscle the national rifle association. which in recent years has only spent $20 million annually on political activities. fighting the nra dollar for dollar, but more importantly at the grass-roots level and breaking the gun lobby's vice grip on state and federal legislatures won't be easy. even with nearly nine in ten americans supporting background checks, democrats were unable to get a modest gun safety bill passed four of their own members in the senate. and even with the tremendous negative publicity the nra has received for resisting basic gun

reform even in the wake of massacres like aurora and newtown. a poll just one year after sandy hook finds 39% continue to view the nra favorably versus 31% unfavorable. it's a net that is above water except it comes to women who as a group view the nra unfavorably. that's the polling that bloomberg's new group is looking to capitalize on. for the record, we reached out to the nra for comment and have not heard back yet, but we know they're aware of the mayor's push because they tweeted it out to their 200,000-plus followers. it's also worth noting that gabby gifford' pro-gun safety organization has raised $2.5 million in just the first quarter of this year. again, while it's not about the money, it kind of is about the money because here's what bloomberg and giffords are up against across the country. in florida, as "the daily beast" reports, an nra-backed bill in the statehouse seeks to allow anyone who doesn't have a concealed permit to go ahead and ignore that whole permit thing

during riots and other emergencies. the article aptly points out this is crazy even by florida standards. meanwhile, the nra calls a new bill in georgia the most comprehensive pro-gun bill in recent history. it allows guns in bars, schools, restaurants, churches and airports. letting felons claim the stand your ground defense with no duty to walk away. and in iowa, two sisters aged 8 and 10 are asking their congressmen to repeal a law that prevents kids under 14 from firing a handgun. >> it's fun shooting my gun with my daddy, and i can learn how to safely handle it and protect myself and my family, if needed to. >> yesterday i was out shooting my gun with my daddy yesterday, and somebody told me that i couldn't because of a decision he made. >> and can you please let us shoot our gun? thank you. >> thank you. >> oh, dear. joining me, john fineblat. so you had this conference call

this morning in which you talked about what you want to do in merging these two organizations. and part of a lot of q&a at least on the call was about the politics of it. you have a country that is nine in ten in favor of gun control, in favor of gun form is the property word. but only 28% of republicans want stricter gun laws. in a country where one party is dead set against any reforms and where that party controls the house of representatives as well as 28 state legislatures, how do you make change? >> look, joy, it's good to see you today, first of all. look, when you ask the american public whether they're gun owners or nra members or the public at large, 90% believe in ba background checks, and tha doesn't matter what party you belong to. from our point of view this isn't about gun crime. it's about crime control. it's about keeping people safe, it's about moms know they're going to pick up their kids at soccer practice, not the emergency room. >> you guys are talking about coalescing moms and really focusing on women, also mayors,

but really focusing on moms, and teachers was another group you say you're focusing on. what is it you want your grass-roots supporters, which already are over is million? >> for too long the washington gun lobby has really had the field to themselves. and what we have to do is make sure that every mom and every teacher and everywhere a voice is heard so that when politicians, whether at the state or federal level, make the decision to vote. they're thinking about every town, not just about the washington gun lobby. >> are you specifically saying we want people to pledge to vote against anyone who opposes gun reform? >> we're going to sign up before the november midterm elections. 1 million people who pledge to support candidates and legislation that protect the american people, they're going to make their voices heard. we're going to make sure that when people make the decision whether to vote for something or against something, that they're not just thinking about the gun lobby. they're thinking about every mom, every mayor, everybody in this country who wants to make

sure their kids are safe. >> let's talk a little about the politics of that. i did highlight in the open these red state democrats. there were four democrats who actually voted no to a very modest gun reform bill that happened after sandy hook when you had the whole nation in horror about the massacre of these 26 children and teachers. and yet you have those red state democrats, three that are still in office are heidi heitkamp who's not even up till 2018. she still voted no. mark begich and mark pryor, the last two being up now. are you willing to risk mark begich and mark pryor in the immediate future, losing their re-election because voters who are with you, with gun sense, voting against them and then making the senate even more impenetrable to gun legislature? >> look, i think what u to do is make it clear that people are going to be accountable for their votes. 16 states and the district of columbia have passed background check legislation in this country, and it's macing a huge difference. 49% fewer suicides with guns.

39% fewer intimate partners killed with guns. 38% fewer, cops. we're saving lives. colorado that passed background checks, clearly a purple state, passed background checks in july. 160 people have been stopped from buying a gun who were prohibited because they were a felon or they were psychiatrically impaired or because they were a minor. you can't put a price tag on that life. that is amazing. >> right. but you guys, you know, changed in wisconsin, colorado, but what about places like florida and georgia. since the sandy hook massacre, you've had more bills expanding the right to carry, expanding the right to discharge a firearm. then you've had restrictions, and you've had real repercussions in colorado where there was an attempt to take out of office anyone who voted for these laws. i mean, are you really seeing progress? >> look, nobody said this was a sprint. it's a marathon. but let's look at colorado. the law is on the books. 160 people have been stopped.

it is a shame that two state senators lost their election over it. but what really is important is that we're saving lives in colorado and that the efforts this year to repeal that law hit the dust. >> right. >> didn't work. >> the $50 million invested by bloomberg is obviously getting a lot of ink. you guys also mentioned you have about 35,000 other donors. in total, how much money are you looking to put on the table? >> whatever it takes. what we want to do is make sure people's voices are heard. when you have 90% of gun owners and 90% of the american public wanting something as common sense as comprehensive background checks, our job is to make sure their voice is heard, whether it's in washington state or whether it's in washington, d.c. >> right. and quickly, this is the seventh anniversary of the virginia tech shooting. it happened seven years ago today. your group is highlighting the fact that there have been 60 u.s. school shootings in the united states since then. in trying to make that kind of progress, with that kind of a number and still no change, can you match the passion among your grass-roots supporters of gun owners who seem to really put up

an impenetrable wall against any reforms to gun laws? >> for too long the gun lobbies had had the turf to themselves. they've had a hammerlock over people in washington and state capitols. we're going to try to change that. that's what our job is. every mom, every mayor, everybody who's concerned about public safety is going to make sure their voices are heard and make sure that there are consequences for the votes. that's what's been missing. we're going to change that. people are going to think twice before they vote for laws that are hurting the american public. >> all right. john fineblat from every town for gun safety, we will definitely be watching your campaign as it unfolds over this year. >> thanks for having me. >> thank you for being here. all right. coming up, eric holder is not holding back. we'll tell you about how the attorney general could be getting things done without having the white house's headaches with a just-say-no congress. then as more good health care news keeps coming out, republicans are looking for new ways to tear it down. we'll tell you their latest conspiracy theory. you, my friend are a master of diversification.

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we should learn, i think, from the mistakes that we naide in de made in dealing with the crack problem and thinking something we should only reply or primarily reply in only a law enforcement way. i think, as i said before, there has to be a law enforcement response to this. but i think we also have to make sure that we think of this as a public health issue as well. >> that was attorney general eric holder speaking in the last hour at an all-day national summit on illegal drugs. he was talking about how law enforcement should respond to the heroin problem. holder is testifying in support of reducing federal sentencing for certain nonviolent drug offenders. ever since taking office, holder

has aggressively pursued president obama's agenda on civil rights, voting right marriage equality. and while the president's been faced with republican obstructionists at nearly every turn, his attorney general hasn't had to deal with the same kind of obstruction. sure, he's drawn republican anger and even a contempt citation, but in the years ahead, when the history of the obama presidency is written, let it be known that attorney general holder will be a very important player. sorry, darrell issa and louie gohmert and all the rest of you. victoria is an msnbc contributor and ryan riley covers the justice department for the huffington post. thank you both for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> i want to start off with the substance of eric holder before we get to how much agony he causes for the republican party. he's done reforms to federal sentencing guidelines, for certain drug crimes. he's blocked and sued to block restrictive voting laws. he's restored voting rights -- pushed to restore voting rights to ex-convicts, extending

federal recognition and benefits to same-sex couples. it's a very activist agenda. ryan, when you look at this, and i've heard eric holder called the progressive of the obama administration, are we really seeing eric holder's kind of progressive activism or is this more reflective of president obama or both sf >> it's interesting when you consider where holder was just a few years ago and sort of this mentality of lurching from scandal to scandal, and now he really is a major voice for reform. he's gotten a little bit of pushback in some of the initiatives he's done executively from within the justice department, from some career prosecutors, and he's really sort of shaking things up. >> i mean, if you look at it, victoria, early on, as ryan mentions, in his tenure, there was a lot of pushback from the left over the khalid shaikh mohammed, the inability to prosecute him on american soil and some other issues. but he really kind of has become i guess sort of the progressive kind of hero within the administration. would you agree with that, or is he really just carrying out what

really is a white house agenda by another means? >> well, i think he's doing things that president obama can't directly do because of all of the stalemate in congress. and i think it's very important to notice the context. we're in a very different context right now. so the vra as of last year suddenly doesn't exist as we knew it with section 5 being taken away. and we see him very aggressively putting forward section 3, trying to proactively protect civil rights. i also think it's interesting what he's not doing. so in terms of immigration, for example, a federal law states that every city, every state has to comply with secure communities. a number of states and communities are bucking that and saying we're not going to enforce secure communities, and we haven't seen eric holder go in and say, well, i'm going to go after you for not enforcing those laws. it's what he does and doesn't do. >> ryan, let's push on that just for a little bit because immigration does seem to be kind of the sticking point now where the white house, the obama administration, is really clashing with a fundamental part of their base.

is it your expectation, having covered this justice department, that there will be more activism, more aggressive activism and more aggressive pushback to really test the limits of how far the attorney general could go in terms of relaxing some of the, i guess, moronerous parts of the deportation regime? >> to a certain extent, but right now i think one of his priorities is really is working with congress, as difficult as that might be, especially on some of the things in terms of, you know, the smart on crime initiative. he really does want to work with congress, and he has had some meetings with members from the other side of the aisle including talking about felony disenfranchisement with rand paul. so that's something i think is really going to be a priority. so i think that he's going to take a little bit of a cautious approach, given what they've done already in terms of executive action to make sure that they don't alienate people further on the republican side of the aisle to see if they can in any way work together. >> i want you to take a listen to what he said at the national action network last week because

it doesn't sound to me like he thinks it's a working relationship. take a listen. >> you look at the way -- and forget about me. forget about me. you look at the way the attorney general of the united states was treated yesterday by a house committee, it had nothing to do with me, forget that -- what attorney general has ever had to deal with that kind of treatment? what president has ever had to deal with that kind of treatment? >> and vickie, you add to that the contempt citation, you now have a text republican kong gressman introducing the contempt add that would cut the federal pay of officials who have been held in contempt of congress, et cetera. is this, in your mind, an unprecedentedly nasty, i guess you'd say, relationship between an attorney general and members of congress he's supposed to work with? >> i do. for example, louie gohmert, i have the dubious honor of being from his home state. i think what'sing go to happen, you have these people who are very aggressive and pushing back on eric holder.

but eric holder is incredibly smart, and he knows that there are some republicans that are a little more moderate and that he can work with them. maybe on some issues, he can push the envelope forward, say, with rand paul and others, he can. so i think he's smart enough to know that he's going to have to pick and choose with the gop. >> indeed, victoria and ryan, thanks to both of you. >> thanks. and now an update on the crisis in yew yan where separatists flying the russian flag can be seen standing on top of tanks. they're trying to retake several cities in the east. the u.s., russia and ukraine and eu are set to begin talks in geneva tomorrow.

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strange bedfellows, but a billionaire koch brother and the ncaap? yes, a major conservative is teaming up with the texas branch of the storied civil rights group on the issue of prison reform. tonight in austin, the charles koch institute is sponsoring a rule of law, how the criminal justice system impacts well-being. the president of the naacp will join as an expert. they're also promoting the event using social media plus live streaming it on their website, showing that the u.s. disproportionally incarcerates its citizens particularly people of color. and if you do join this twitter discussion tonight, do tweet me and tell me what you think. by the way, gary bledsoe from the texas naacp will be here tomorrow to talk about this novel collaboration. another famous conservative is jumping in on a heated

debate. meanwhile, herman cain 999. instead of tackling a tough topic, the former presidential contender is styling himself as a shoo-truther. there is now a conspiracy that clinton staged the infamous shoe-throwing incident in las vegas last week. the reported shoe thrower has already been booked by authorities, and yes, she has a history of erratic behavior. that hasn't stopped some conservatives of accusing clinton of propping her up by creating a version of the infamous and oh so presidential president bush. herm maman cain tweeted, fakerym the clintons? first we had obama's birth certificate truthers, now hillary's shoe truthers. the college board announced earlier this year they will change the s.a.t. admissions tests. the new version has arrived. it will simplify things and supposedly test students on

subtle understanding rather than arcane words. will this make it more fair? some disagree saying the real issue is our failing education system and not the s.a.t. what do you think? you can go to msnbc.com and take a poll to leave your opinion in an article about the test's evolution. and of course, you can join the conversation with fellow readers on twitter, facebook, instagram and msnbc.com and keep telling us what's important to you. and now more on the s.a.t. test, for now this news. three things to celebrate about the new s.a.t.s.

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new allegations today that the administration is, quote, cooking the books on the obamacare numbers. >> the headline in "the wall street journal" today is cooking the obamacare stats.

i think that tells it all. >> yes, i do believe it does. that headline, which is actually an editorial, is one of many to date where health care critics are pursuing their latest conspiracy theory. this one seizes on a rather provocative headline in today's "new york times." census survey revisions mask health care effects. conservatives are pointing to the article which details a more accurate method to count the number of uninsured in the country as evidence that president obama is deliberately cooking the books to make obamacare look more successful than it really is. now, mind you, this was a conspiracy announced by the census bureau seven months ago and one that came after years of research and two national tests. according to a statement from the bureau's director. but you know, details. now, "the times" does quote officials who say that the new questions are so different that the findings will not be comparable. however, that is not the whole story. sara cliff covers health care for vox.com where these a senior editor, and thanks are being here, sara.

you actually wrote today in a piece that is entitled "don't freak out about the census changes yet." one of the issues is that the questions are very new, but you also write that the obama administration does plan to use the survey questions to collect data for 2013. how does that change -- you know, how does that make the changes allow us to track how the health care law is actually doing? >> so most of the health care law, it's big insurance expansion, started in 2014. so that's when we expect to start seeing people get covered through the health care law. since they're using the new questions in 2013, that will essentially give us one year of a baseline. we'll get a one-year read on what things were like obamacare and be able to compare how well the law is or isn't doing. i think researchers would have liked more years ideally, but as you mentioned, this is a change that's been pushed forward for a while. the idea is these new changes will make it more accurate. and i think from the administration's point of view, they figured it was better to do this now to start in 2013 than

let's say get to 2015 or 2016, a few years into obamacare, making the change then could have ar e arguably been worse than doing it right now. >> a conspiracy theory that's rising on the right about this is that by changing this, we'll never really be able to know the truth about the health care law, whether or not more people are really getting new insurance who didn't have it before. in your view, is there any merit to those kind of conspiracy theories? >> you know, i think we are -- we're losing a good data source, definitely. i think there are a number of researchers who i've spoken with who would prefer this change wasn't happening. but i don't think it's a conspiracy theory that has much merit. buzzfeed talked to the director of the census who said the white house really had nothing to do with this change. it was methodological. while they have described the timing is unfortunate, it doesn't have anything to do with obamacare. the other thing i would add is there's a lot of other surveys

that researchers rely on from places like gallup. even if it this one isn't going to be as helpful as we taught, there will be a lot of other ways to tell whether it's working or not. >> and you mentioned gallup. they have a new poll that shows the number of uninsured is falling faster in states that embrace the health care law. what picture do we have objectively between rand and gallup and those other surveys for the number of uninsured right now in the united states? >> i think it's pretty safe to say that the number of uninsured has dropped under obamacare. and this wasn't actually something we took as a given last fall. if you remember there was lots of talk about plans being canceled and would people sign up, or would they just lose their health insurance? between the surveys we do have, it really does seem clear that the uninsured rate has dropped since the start of this year and since obamacare really took effect. and the gallup numbers you mentioned are another important piece of that. they show that in states that are embracing obamacare, states that have really tried to make

it work, you're seeing a much faster drop in the uninsured rate which really does suggest that the law is having a tangible effect, and it does matter whether states embrace it with open arms or really oppose it and try and block implementation. >> and if data is your friend here, you also have to acknowledge that states that have not embraced the medicaid expansion specifically, there is actually hard data that people are actually going uninsured as a result of that. so this is a way in which data could come back to bite those criticizing this change, no? >> yeah. you know, we're definitely seeing that states that are expanding medicaid, they're seeing much faster growth in the program. we haven't gotten federal data yet on who is signing up under the expansion. health care researchers talk a lot about a woodwork effect that people hear about obamacare, and they might have been eligible before but decide to sign up right now. we don't know the total number of who's signing up for medicaid just because of obamacare, but we'll get those soon. and the expectation is it will be a few million people who are signed up in the states that are expanding. those are obviously people do not have access in states that

have decided not to participate in the medicaid expansion. >> yeah. and i think the most important thing is one year does not enough tata amakat that tim dat. it's going to be a few years. thanks very much, sarah, with vox. coming up, a foods fight over food stamps. i'll talk to the cabinet official on the front line against republicans who want to slash the program. it's time for the "your business" entrepreneur of the week. elie and mike were designers who started makerhaus in seattle. it allows entrepreneurs to have access to sophisticated prototyping equipment from woodworking and metal shop tools to 3-d printers. for more, watch "your business" sunday mornings at 7:3 on msnbc. if i can impart one lesson to a new business owner, it would be one thing i've learned is my philosophy is real simple

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so that was our first task, was getting him to wellness. without angie's list, i don't know if we could have found all the services we needed for our riley. from contractors and doctors to dog sitters and landscapers, you can find it all on angie's list. we found riley at the shelter, and found everything he needed at angie's list. join today at angieslist.com today president obama is in pittsburgh where he and vice president joe biden will be talking up their opportunity for all program to get more people trained for growing career fields. can you see from these live pictures people are already gathering to hear them speak. the stop is all part of a domestic agenda that should be familiar to you by now. it includes a push to raise the federal minimum wage and to get states and businesses to raise wages, too. several states have already joined the president and hiked their minimum wage, but some red states are going in the opposite direction.

cue oklahoma. where on monday governor mary fallon joined her republican colleagues and signed into law a bill that bans any town in her state from establishing its own minimum wage. some activists in oklahoma city had been attempting to gain support to raise that city's minimum wage from $7.25 an hour to $10.10. exactly the figure president obama is pushing at the federal level. now, in signing the bill, fallon mentioned outstated assumptions that minimum wage workers are, quote, young, single people working part time or entry-level jobs. or high school or college students living with their parents in middle-class families. which is absolutely 100% not true. here's a more recent profile of minimum wage workers. studies show their average wage is about 35. many of them are definitely single, meaning single moms, raising children. 56% of workers earning minimum wage are women. 28% have children. and more than half work full time.

and nationally, that means there are more americans working both full time for the minimum wage and being unable to afford food. hello, walmart and mickey d.'s. enter food stamps. the supplemental nutrition assistance program which some states like oklahoma, for instance, are busy cutting off for low-wage workers. so the logic is, no raise in your wages, and if you live in a red state, no food stamps either. yeah, makes sense to me. i'm joined now by secretary of agriculture, tom vilsack. thank you, sir, for being here. really appreciate it. >> you bet, joy. >> you were recently at the national action network and gave what i thought was a really rousing defense of the food stamp program, but you also tied it to the minimum wage which the center for american progress has a study showing if you raised it from $7.25 an hour to $10.10 an hour, it would actually cut the food stamp rolls. can you explain? >> you give 23 million americans a raise, many of those americans are currently receiving food stamps, it will move them out of qualifying for the program. and over time will save over $40

billion in the program. that's one way to reduce the cost of the food stamp program. the other way is to put people who are capable of working to provide them opportunities of better-paying jobs. the new farm bill gives us an opportunity to create ten pilot projects in states to try to put people to work. joy, the vast fa mort of people on s.n.a.p. are not folks who are capable of working. if you consider that two-thirds of the people are either senior citizens, people are disabilities or children, you add to that 7% who are veterans, can you see that over 70% of the folks currently receiving food stamps are probably in a circumstance where it may be a little bit difficult for them to work. >> yeah. and $4.6 billion savings potential, as you made the excellent point, could cut into those food stamp rolls. they have a situation for low-income americans where literally no one working full time really earns enough in a week to pay the rent for a two-bedroom apartment. you look at a breakdown, and the national low housing shows that

in many states having that full-time low-wage job isn't enough to even pay your rent. in a situation like that, is there any way to cut food sta s stamps, any meaningful amount? >> no. in fact, that's one of the concerns we have about representative ryan's budget that seeks to block food stamp monies to states. what that will do is it will give states an opportunity to restrict who call fey qualifies program. we saw that in the 2002 time period. only 52% of people eligible for s.n.a.p. were actually receiving benefits. and now because of president obama's efforts, we've reached out. we're now getting close to 80% of people who are eligible for the program, participating, and that's the way it should be. again, the best way to move people off, raise the minimum wage and provide opportunities, work opportunity, for those who are capable of working and want to work. >> and i think when you talk both about the minimum wage and about food stamps, we wind up coming back this issue of fast food restaurants where you do have a lot of people working those jobs full time, still getting food stamps.

i want to play you republican congressman dennis ross of florida who's responding to a constituent who asked if he would support the president's call to raise the minimum wage. take a listen to his response. >> who's going to pay for it? who's going to pay for it? so if he'll pay and i'm going to work every day, busting my butt. i want to know, would you take a walk in my shoes every day? every day? would you take a walk in my shoes? retire your suit for 24 hours and take a walk in my shoes. and we're keeping the company floating and going in a cycle. but the people up higher, they just throw money, but i'm actually working every day. so why wouldn't you support it? >> because it's not right economically, it's not right. it does more harm to our economy. >> are we just failing nationally to understand who low-wage workers are and what it is that they're actually up

against? >> sure, i think that's absolutely right. look, if you work 40 hours a week, you ought to be able to make enough to take care of your family. that's the way that you can reward work, and you can honor work. the reality today is that that minimum wage has lost a lot of its purchasing power and continues to lose purchasing power every single year that we delay getting it raised. folks will lose another percent, almost 2% of their earning and purchasing power by congress not being able to raise the minimum wage this year if they don't get it done. so at the end of the day, i think you have to understand people are working hard, they're playing by the rules, they're doing what they're supposed to do, and the reality is that we ought to reward work and honor work by making sure that folks who do work are able to earn enough to take care of their families. >> absolutely. you do have an ideological opposition both on the food stamp issue and on minimum wage. i have to play you this sound from fox news. eric bolling, and he's explaining what he believes that the united states should do in terms of work and how we should value it. take a listen. >> rather than emulating you

know, european 35-hour workweek, we should look at the chinese. the economies there that are starting to kick our butt, those people work hard. there aren't labor laws, there aren't minimum wages. they're working harder than we are. >> so is that the answer, mr. secretary, get rid of the 40-hour workweek, get rid of wage laws altogether? emulate the chinese? >> i don't even know where to start with responding to that. you know, i don't think we want to become like communist china. i think we want to reward work. we have always been a country that has done that. we need to raise the minimum wage. we need to value work. and we, frankly, need to also address the issue of immigration which we aren't discussing here today, but should be discussing, which is the need for us to get this work force, get folks out of the shadows, make sure that they're fully contributing to this economy. that's the way that you can get this economy rolling again. raise the minimum wage, give 23 million consumers the ability to buy more. they will buy more, bring folks out of the shadows with comprehensive immigration reform. you'll help business, and you'll help the country.

i don't think we want to emulate china at all on this issue. >> yeah, and one other issue that you did bring up that i do want to ask you about, because we are headed toward summer. and on one of the other programs that is administered by your department is the summer food program. how important is that, and how much in jeopardy is that given the makeup of congress right now? >> it's extraordinarily important, and we need resources and we need partners. 20 million youngsters participate in our school lunch and school breakfast program at free or reduced rates. when they leave school, only about 3 million are in our summer feeding program. there's a delta of 17 million kids who may not have access to decent food during the summer. and that's going to impact and affect their ability to be able to be ready to start school learning again in september, august when they go back to school. so we are looking for partners which are going to try to increase the number of meals we serve this year in our summer feeding program by 10 million meals. we're looking for partners, faith-based organizations, nonprofit organizations, cities, park and rec departments. they can reach out to us at

usda.gov and sign up to help us. >> yeah. and you've made the point before, but these are children whose parents are working, in some cases low-wage jobs, in some cases many, many hours a week. many more than 40. >> get us back to the minimum wage and honoring work and making sure that folks get enough help and assistance to honor work. and the reality is with food stamps, that's also a great anti-poverty program. we know that 4.7 million people are moved out of poverty because of that food stamp program. raising the minimum wage, getting folks to work, that's the right prescription and not artificially reducing s.n.a.p. or block granting it to states. >> secretary of agriculture, tom vilsa vilsack, thank you so much for being here. >> thank you. up next, how the standoff at the bundy ranch is shining a light on the hypocrisy on the right. who'd have thunk it? who's this little guy? that's birney. oh, i bet that cone gives him supersonic hearing. watch what you say around him.

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at issue in the bundy ranch standoff this month has been whether a rancher, cliven bundy,

who claims to live in the sovereign state of nevada and says he doesn't recognize the assistant let alobe the authority whether he can opt out of the fees that other ranchers pay every year in order to let his cattle graze on federal land. let me repeat that. cliven bundy wants to declare his right to opt out of paying the fees that every other rancher has to pay. and he's racked up more than $1 million in fees and fines via court orders dating back to 1989. since bundy hasn't actually paid his fees since bill clinton was inaugurated president in 1993. bundy is demanding the right to keep using that federal land, free of charge, because his family's heritage dates back to before there was a federal bureau of land management. maybe you should have tried that explanation on the irs instead of filing your taxes yesterday and see how that worked out. amazingly the right wing chorus, rather than demanding personal responsibility from cliven bundy or calling him a deadbeat like

the rant against people who fell behind on their mortgages which launched the tea party, rather than calling him a taker like the right does to poor people who need federal food assistance, they're cheering him on. in fact, bundy's refusal to comply with the law inspired an influx of what amounts to an armed militia into nevada which, egged on by conservative media, were all but inviting an armed confrontation with federal agent, even threatening to shove their women out front to be shot down by the federalis. >> strategizing to put all of the women up in the front. if they're going to start shooting, it's going to be women that are going to be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers. >> we have rapists and murderers and bank robbers and pedophiles out there, and they've got 200 agents, you know, surrounding your ranch because your cows are eating grass on land that they don't even want or need and that you're arguing isn't even theirs. >> thankfully, the feds didn't give the fringe their violent fantasy confrontation.

and when the bureau of land management backed down, the right declared victory. they beat the evil government. beyond the dangerous theatrics, the right has yet to answer the fundamental question, why should this one rancher get to do for free what everyone else has to pay for? people on the right claim that it's liberals who go around offering free stuff mainly to the poor. they derive things like food stamps and housing aid to poor families and make up fictional free stuff like obamaphones that are supposedly being doled out to the 47% like halloween candy to trick people into voting for democrats. but what they want for free is land for cliven bundy or free writing on health care without having to buy insurance under the affordable care act, or the multibillion-dollar effort to let the rich get out of paying taxes and shift the tax burden onto the middle class or the poor. it really does seem like conservatives are the ones demanding something for nothing. and that wraps things up for

"the reid report." i'll see you back here tomorrow. visit us online. "the cycle" is up next. hey, "cyclists." >> hey, joy. >> what's going on today? >> not much. great commentary there. unbelievable that they wanted to put the women out front. thank you so much for highlighting that. >> thank you. >> and we're going to be taking a look at this ongoing crisis in ukraine. are they heading to a civil war? things are getting really, really heated there. we also have the president and the vice president live in our hour talking about a new jobs program. they're going to be at a community college in pennsylvania talking that up. so we will have that live. and get this, joy. we may make broadcast news history, maybe, just maybe, we are going to have the first ever josh barro rant. you do not want to miss that. >> i cannot wait. i'm there. "the cycle" comes up next. what if my abdominal pain and cramps end our night before it even starts?

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hour in "the cycle." the crisis in ukraine spiraling out of control. military on the move, the russians fanning the flames, and the world nervously watching. a one, two punch on the economy this hour. president obama stumps with vice president biden in an effort reminiscent of the campaign. we will bring it to you live when it happens. and speaking of a one, two punch, a mid-april snowfall shattering records. and if you are begging for summer, the experts warn, be careful what you wish for. the crisis in ukraine reaching a breaking point. heavily armed pro-russian militants have control of an entire city in eastern ukraine just 100 miles from the russian border. it's believed those tanks were taken from the ukrainian army and driven by army defectors. a claim that kiev denies.

listen to how those soldiers were welcomed by local citizens. [ applause ] russian supporters then blocked ukrainian troops just outside the city. they feared kiev sent the troops to crack down on the occupiers. the ukrainian government is now calling on local residents to form riot police forces armed with automatic weapons. the ukrainian prime minister still blames russia for the escalation. and today he's accusing russia of having a new export, terrorism. ukrainians say they've intercepted documents between russian saboteurs that prove moscow is orchestrating this unrest. but russia denies stirring up the militants, instead insisting they are actually trying to settle things peacefully. that's despite nato's claim that 40,000 russian troops are amassed just across the border. as a precaution, nato has ordered an immediate allied buildup in the baltic region, more ships, more planes and greater readiness. we've got all the angles covered with