this morning, my question, is a fraj is truce already falling apart in ukraine? plus 50 million ways to challenge the nra, and a possible game-changer for college sports. but first, what are we so afraid of? good morning, i'm melissa harris-perry. in just two days, 36,000 people lace up their running shoes and assemble on main street in the

royal new england town of hopkinton to confront the long road ahead at the start of the 2014 boston marathon. for the next 26 miles the runners will confront head on the challenge of pushing themselves to their personal limits and beyond. but if you've ever participated in a marathon or if you're just cautiously considering one, you know that getting ready to go the distance doesn't begin at the starting line. training begins months in advance, making sure to eat the right foods, staying hydrated and putting in weekly miles. but that physical training is only part of the preparation. the challenge of running a marathon is being able to summon the will to push past fear. fear of one's own limitations, fear of not finishing or finishing last, fear of pain, of injury. of course we know that in this year's boston marathon, there's at least one fear that all of the participants will collectively confront, because monday will be the first boston marathon since the 2013 race when two homemade bombs planted at the finish line killed three people and wounded nearly 300

others. the events of that day last year give this year's race special symbolic meaning as an act of mass resistance to fear. the bombing also created a new fear not only for runners, but for all of us as a nation. we've now added marathons to the list of targets that require our heighten ed vigilance. that explosion at the finish line in 2013 only exacerbated the terror that was still new when planes became weapons on september 11th, 2001. in the 13 years that have since passed, that threat has become our nation's most salient collective fear. but it was only the latest in a long line of events to leave that scar on our american historical memory. on december 7th, 1941, when japanese planes attacked the united states naval base at pearl harbor and killed more than 2400 americans, our vulnerability to what had been a distant war abroad suddenly felt much closer to home. during the cold war, standoff against the soviet union, we

lived under constant fear of the threat of the nuclear annihilation. as much as these moments truly made us the united states because of our shared anxiety over an actual threat, it is worth remembering that on the flip side of that fear are those who consequently become targets because of a perceived threat. just two months after the pearl harbor attack, president franklin roosevelt, giving in to the will of popular opinion, signed the order that led to the internment of more than 100,000 americans whose only crime was having japanese ancestry. cold war hysteria about domestic communist subversion led to the investigation of millions of federal employees, the black listing of hundreds of people in the film industry and the loss of jobs for countless other americans who fell under suspicion as sympathizers. but this isn't just american history, because even today, the american story continues to remind us that when it comes to confronting the fear of being a target, we are not all fearing the same enemy. just ask the record two million

immigrants deported under president obama's administration. or the muslim new yorkers who up until this week were the targets of an nypd surveillance program that monitored and covertly infiltrated the spaces where they lived and worked and shopped and prayed. and this fear-driven response leaves lingering questions about who we perceive to be a threat and why. should that angst, for instance, include people like frazier glenn cross. cross, an active participant for three decades in white supremacist hate groups was charged this week with first-degree murder in the killing of three people at a jewish community center and a retirement center. or should we add to that list of existential people like cliven bundy, the rancher who after refusing over $1 million in fines for two decades of illegal cattle grazing on government lou land inspired a militia. men like these are the boogie

men in night mmares but if it justifies the government to act in defense of itself, who else should we be afraid of? what about when the challenge comes from a group of students protesting peacefully. how about self-proclaimed revolutionaries resisting violence police aggression against their communities. how ultimately do we decide who becomes subject to our fear and the target of our response. and how do we know the difference between the fears we should ignore to preserve our freedom and those we must confront to strengthen our security. joining me is dorian warren, richard cohen, president of the southern poverty law center and omar farrah, the staff attorney for the center for constitutional rights. thanks for being here.

dorian, i want to start with you. i was suggesting occupy or the panthers, in part because i want to ask if you're the american state, so not me or you, but if you're the american state, what does it take to move someone from just being in a position of exercising their freedom of speech to being considered a threat to the state itself? >> what does it take to be considered a threat is the othering of the other person and that usually always means people of color. so if we look at the whole history of our country and enthusiastic of violent lynchings by white supremacists, you add up all those numbers and they far outweigh any kinds of murders or activity from black people, from muslims because those folks are othered. they're not considered americans and not given the benefit of the doubt. so those people are automatically considered threats when white supremacists like bundy, who has a record of white supremacist activity, who is embedded in white supremacist

networks, they're given a pass. they're considered real americans while the rest of us are immediately othered and considered a threat. >> miller. >> right. >> in this case there's a sense that what would constitute a threat depends on who we think is the we. would you agree? >> i would. when we look at white supremacists like miller, we forget that the people that are most likely to be objects of suspicion in our country are black people, people of color. it happens in our schools, it happens in our communities. i think that that is a much larger concern for our country than the millers of the world, quite frankly. >> and this moment of othering might extend on these old identities like black/white, which has a history as long as the nation. but what we saw on september 11th was the ways in which an other can emerge immediately as a result of, for example, 9/11 in which there's at least narratives, stories that came out of d.c. saying that there

were folks who immediately said, okay, find me the census and tell me where the muslims live or tell me where the arabs live and the answer was we can't, they're white. so we haven't thought of this group as other. in this moment then the question becomes who is the other. well, it must be muslims. they can be the group that is dangerous which is exactly what we've seen with this nypd question. >> exactly. post-9/11 the muslim community bake the other. it was a target of government policies, including nypd surveillance programs, you know, infiltrating people's houses of worship, sending informants into muslim student associations on campuses. but there was a special registration program post-9/11 that specifically said males over the age of 16 that were from these 28 countries come and register with the government. at that moment people thought they were going to put us in internment camps. >> because there's a history of

that, it's not just paranoia. >> it's a valid fear and it continues. and the closing of the zone assessment department by the police department this week, this community is not just going to be like, okay great, they're not spying on us anymore. it's going to take years to roll back the trauma that this community has been put through, 13 years later post-9/11. >> this trauma is an interesting one. if what we're talking about is less the federal government but at this point community policing in relationship to the federal government in the nypd case, so talk to me then about how the surveillance activities, which became public, but which folks knew were occurring beforehand, how did that rupture the relationship between local law enforcement and muslim communities? >> well, i think to a certain extent the relationship had suffered tremendously because the muslim community was so acutely aware this practice was happening even before the revelations. what's struck me the case we're litigating now for the demographics work in new jersey

is how different our plaintiffs are in every respect other than the fact they share a muslim identity. this sort of facially discriminatory policing causes a litany of concrete harms, the worst of which really is the gross stigma that comes from being discriminated and treated differently on the basis of crude stereotypes. you talked about japanese internment at the top of the show. what's so destructive is it gives judicial sanction to the same logic that should be roundly rejected for the same reasons. >> i also wonder we hear sometimes international relations theory. we're always fighting the last war, that we have strategies based on what we've just done. i wonder if similarly the kind of response to 9/11 or the use of a certain set of demographic characteristics to presume who is guilty and who is threatening keeps us always fighting the last threat rather than thinking forward to what might in fact be

threatening. >> or having a balance between those things. you know, after the oklahoma city bombing, the anniversary today, the attorney general set up a task force to kind of respond to that militia movement and the growth of white supremacy. monthly. and of course the last time it was scheduled to meet was on 9/11. and then after that, all of the resources swung the other way towards the muslim community. and, you know, of course we see what happened on sunday. maybe we're not paying enough attention to that. so i don't think anyone would say law enforcement shouldn't do its job, but it just has to have some sort of balance to it. >> so i think that that's part of the question for me, dorian. i don't want to presume that you are a threat or a group is a threat because i disagree with them, right? and so if it's a right-wing group then they should be monitored by the government whereas if they're progressive

they shouldn't be monitored, right? i'm trying to figure out is there a quality way of determining when should we be saying this is just happening in the level of freedom and this is threatening? >> well, there is a department of homeland security study on the rise of white supremacist militia groups that were shut down and that report never came out because it was so controversial. the difference is people like miller in kansas this last weekend, he was public for 30 years in terms of his views and his threats to people's actual security. so it's not like it was a secret. it's not like we have to dig very deep to understand not only him but his entire network of white supremacists who are a threat to all americans and not only people of color. so we didn't have to dig deep. the problem is -- or the line that you're asking about is when people make public threats, we can see it, we can identify it. and when you put all your resources against an other

that's not a threat, then you miss the actual obvious threats to our national security. >> the back panthers did use the words revolution. they said we are having a revolution. we do not recognize the federal government is appropriate because of american racism and therefore we want a revolution. this is the language they were using. but i think we could suggest that they were subjected to some of the worst infiltration. we're going to talk more about all of this as soon as we get back pause i want to look a little bit at how the obama administration is putting extremists on notice. >> next monday on patriots' day when i'm told the 36,000 people line up to start the marathon, you will send a resounding message around the world not just to the rest of the world but to the terrorists that we will never yield. it starts with little things. tiny changes in the brain.

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every alleged hate crime, no matter who the intended target, is an affront to who we are and who we always have been, both as a country and as a people. >> that was attorney general eric holder on thursday, speaking at the memorial service for the victims of the sunday shooting at the jewish community centers in suburban kansas city. i just want to pointing out that the alleged shooter, frazier glenn cross, has also been known to go by the name frazier glenn miller, which is what we've been calling him here in case folks are confused about that. i want to ask a little bit about this point that the attorney general is making there and we've been trying to make around sort of who counts as someone we should be afraid of. and the report -- your own

report showing that the report shows the surge after the election of president obama, there are more than a quarter of a million registered users and nine million posts there. what should i make of that. i don't like president obama is the initiation of this and if he would go away so too would this angst go away. >> i think president obama is seen as the culmination of it. we've seen about a 50% increase of hate groups in our country and that's being driven by the changing demographics of the nation. obama gets elected and people say, look, there's visual proof that a nefarious jew has stolen the country. when he was elected storm front got five times its normal traffic and it said we are the white answer for white people. the day after he was inaugurated, a white supremacist who was just addicted to the net named keith luke killed people

in brogden, massachusetts. so obama didn't drive those numbers, he was the culmination of it. >> so there is a part of me, and this is what i'm struggling with, there's a part of me that says, okay, when you see that, when you see a group where we know there has been killings that have emerged from it and you see these conversations happening online and you know there's a bit of a trigger here with the representation among -- of an african-american president, get in there, get some surveillance, come on, american state. but then, right, i say but wait a minute, how do we then not repeat the thing that is what we did to muslim communities post-9/11? >> i think there's a reflex to feel under these circumstances that there's something additional or new or different that has to be done. just to resist the premise a little bit, i haven't seen a case effectively made that sound, sophisticated policing and intelligence isn't up to the task of the challenges we face. the solution isn't to prejudge another group. at a minimum the point of departure should be our constitution which requires some level of criminal suspicion and

rejects the use of race or ethnicity or religion as a proxy for criminality. but for sure throwing police and resources at sur veiling a grade school for muslim girls can't possibly be the answer. it doesn't make it any safer and is lasting harm to the community. >> the rejection of race as a proxy for criminality. i want to play harry reid talking about mr. bundy and the language that he uses and then mr. bundy's response to harry reid and then get your response. let's listen to both of those. >> there were hundreds, hundreds of people from around the country that came there. they had sniper rifles on the freeway, they had assault weapon, they had automatic weapons. these people who hold themselves

out to be patriots are not. they're nothing more than domestic terrorists. >> when you hear senator harry reid call you a domestic terrorist, what do you have to say to the senator? >> well, i guess he's right. i don't know what else we'd be. we're definitely citizens riled up. i don't know whether you could call us terrorists. they're the most loving people i ever spent my life. i just can't see how he gets that type of description out of these people. >> your responses to hear mr. bundy, say, well, i guess i'll be that domestic terrorist for you. these are loving people. >> it's funny that he would even say that he'd take that because the way that the media portrays people like miller and others, they have a double standard about who they call terrorism, what you call domestic terrorism. we can have many cases, john starks putting his airplane into an irs building. when do we all these people -- aurora shooter, when you look at sandy hook. it takes a lot for us to call someone who's a white man a

domestic terrorist, but the minute it's someone who has the name hamid, it's very simple and easy to label that. >> so with mr. miller, there is an act of violence and murder. in the case of mr. bundy, there was no acts of violence yet. i mean -- like that has not yet occurred and hopefully in fact never will. that said, like even the sort of willingness to take the language, so some groups it ends up being the category, that whole group is a problem versus saying this may be troubling in this individual but we don't presume this to be true of an entire group of individuals. >> i mean that's the case in the muslim community. you had 19 hijackers and because of 19 people who are part of a 1.7 billion people faith, now we all are subject to targeting and, you know, being otherized in our country. i'm a born and raised brooklynite, i went to public

school. >> where are you from? brooklyn. >> it doesn't get more american than being this right here. being otherized -- i don't consider them a part of my faith but for the purpose of the conversation muslims that did something really terrible and we got the brunt of that. the other issue that i have and what my fear is also is that we're fighting this like kpoe 10 shal fight. we don't even know when this war against american muslims is going to end. i'm worried that my kids who grew up in post-9/11 america, when is this going to be over for them? when are they going to be proud of who they are? be able to say i'm a proud muslim and feel like their american identity and muslim identity don't coincide. >> thank you, linda and omar. dorian and richard are sticking around. we'll dig into a new report on the link between a racist

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a new report released from the southern poverty law center made the chilling finding that there is more to fear than just hateful comments on the internet's largest white supremacist forum. the report titled "white homicide worldwide" found that users of stormfront.org which i was talking about which advocates a white power ideology have been responsible for nearly 100 murders in the last five years. the report's findings also connected storm front users to a disproportion nat amount to some of the deadliest hate crimes since the site's finding in 1995. richard cohen is the head of that organization who compiled the report. also joining us now is dafna linzer, the managing editor of msnbc.com. so i want to ask you, richard, because we've been talking maybe in a way that's a little bit messy here about both the sort of white supremacist aspect of violence and what we saw with mr. bundy, just kind of

anti-government and we saw the arms but not violence. are these two very separate things, are very connected? how should we think about them? >> i think they're different but coincide in a certain way. the hate groups we identity are groups that vilify people based on their race, sexual orientation or the like. the radical anti-government groups that we watch are ones that believe in a variety of wild conspiracy theories. there is some overlap because many of those ideas, the new world order ideas came out of a racist background, the posse commitatus, a lot of anti-semitism coursed through that, particularly in the farm crisis in the late '70s and early '80s. some of the current people who are involved, you know, in some ways are far from that but that too had a racist origin. so there's overlap but doesn't

coincide. >> so help me here, because in african-american communities, there is often a sense of the illegitimate see of various government institutions, whether it is the local police force because of their profiling or sometimes an entire state government because of jim crow or sometimes the entire federal government. how -- how should i dare it differently when i hear mr. bundy on a ranch. like is that -- am i just race profiling him as an armed person who is white on a ranch in a way that i wouldn't if it was my uncle who's like i don't even believe the government, they don't even deserve to be the government because they're so racist? >> i don't know. i think that we -- i think that people of color or most americans see the federal government as the guarantor of their civil rights. and we take the government to task when it fails in that responsibility. people like mr. bundy don't recognize the united states. he says i don't even recognize that the united states has the legitimate right to exist, and

that's a common idea with people who adhere to common law ideology, sovereign citizen ideology so i wouldn't think of them as the same. >> that's really helpful, the idea that the federal government has a responsibility and is failing versus thinking that they have no right to it in the first place. >> i think the central point that i take away from that and the difference is, you know, the idea that they don't accept the sense of the government as the guarantor of civil rights, that there are civil rights. that there are laws on the books to protect minority rights in this country. i think that is the central most important thing people should hear and take away and the difference. >> we know from political science research and social science research that the increase in demographic change, the idea that we are in a country that will become majority/minority in the next decade and a half can create or can trigger the kind of authoritarian responses that we sometimes see among folks who

also have an ideology of small government. so not that they are the same thing, but they get triggered in that moment. we are moving to a majority/minority government. how do we figure out a way to live -- this is too big a question, but how do we figure out a way to allow people to have their anxieties without living in fear? >> well, there's so many challenges to that, melissa. one that comes to mind is segregation. we live so apart and so segregated that it's actually hard to create conditions where people get to know each other, whether at the workplace, whether at the store in their communities, so when we're so se segregated not only by race but also by class, it creates bubbles where we're insulated from other people and getting to know other people so it heightens your own ideology and strengthens your own ideology. >> and we those people who watch that network or think those things must be necessarily my enemies and opponents besides a

fellow citizen. i do want to give you an update on the south korean ferry that has capsized on wednesday and has since submerged. search efforts are still under way. the death toll now stands at 32 after south korean divers reported seeing three bodies inside the ferry. more than 270 passengers are still missing. officialing report there are 174 known survivors. more than 300 of the ship's passengers were high school students heading on a field trip. the boat captain has been arrested and charged with five violations, including negligence of duty, violation of maritime law. the u.s. navy ship is assisting in rescue efforts. we'll be right back. this is mike. his long race day starts with back pain... ...and a choice. take 4 advil in a day which is 2 aleve...

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can strike some fear into their hearts with the power of his wallet. this week he announced he is putting some of his billions behind the formation of every town for gun safety, a new gun control group whose goal is to sign up one million new supporters by election day. during the tuesday announcement, bloomberg said of his plans, that, quote, we've got to make them afraid of us. by "them" he meant politicians in the 15 state houses that the organization is targeting. by "us" he meant a coalition that will enlist the help of women and mothers in a door-to-door grassroots outreach effort. that includes a guest joining me from waus tin, texas, shannon watts, founder of moms demand action for gun sense in america. nice to have you. >> thank you. >> so routine deadly gun violence is really classified quite differently in our national and collective fear scale than the kind of terrorist activities that we've talked about. should we be changing what it is we're afraid of? >> well, the reality in america is that 86 people are shot and killed every day, whether that's a murder or a suicide.

and so this is a very deadly and real epidemic in our country. we have to do something about it. you know, just about every american agrees that we have to do something about it, but they haven't voting on it and that's why as part of the investment that mayor bloomberg is making, we are going to get at least one million voters mobilized to vote on this issue in the midterms. that's just between now and november. so this is about building a foundation and moving forward to address this epidemic that we have collectively. >> so your organization is very much sort of on the model here of mothers against drunk driving. and i'm wondering, you talk about voting as one part of it, but is it also trying to shift sort of our understanding about guns, about gun ownership, sort of how are you thinking about this? >> absolutely. you know, there are three ways to go after this. first at the federal level. unfortunately this congress has chosen to do nothing in the wake of sandy hook, which is shameful. but the other way is to go to state legislatures, and we've had huge successes in state legislatures pushing back on bad

legislation and passing good legislation. and then there's also american businesses. moms make 80% of the spending decisions for their families in this country, and when we wield our economic power, we will make huge change. we've already done that with starbucks, facebook and instagram. that is very much like mothers against driving. they work to change the culture in this country as well as the laws. >> dafna, i want to ask about this notion about the power of mothers to shift this discourse. this whole week there's been a lot of discourse about hillary clinton and whether or not now that she's a grandmother will she run, madness. but i was reminded that this woman, who is a mother, absolutely performed a pro-gun language at one point when it became politically palatable in 2008. so i want to listen to that for one second and have you respond. >> you know, my dad took me up behind the cottage that my grandmother built on a little lake called lake winola outside

of scranton and taught me how to shoot when i was a little girl. you know, some people have continued to teach their children and their grandchildren. it's part of a culture. it's part of a way of life. >> dafna? no, really, it matters to me that in the moment that the man who is currently our president said sling to guns and gods that the response of the democratic opponent in that moment was to say, oh, yeah, i'm with the guns because it does feel to me like that is the big thing that this group is having to fight. when the chips were down, this democrat was like oh, yeah, me and the guns, yeah. >> so bloomberg when he was mayor of new york had enormous success using his personal wealth. and wealth for him, he sees that he can implement change. you know, when it comes to guns, it's not about money, it's about ruthlessness and how ruthless are they going to be in saying this is going to be a one issue thing for us.

we are going to go after somebody who is not going to vote with us on this issue. and that is the test. that will determine how successful they will be in these races, because the other side is that ruthless. and that is where the success comes. it's not just money. >> that language of ruthlessness, shannon, has been talked about an enthusiasm gap between those who are strong supporters of the second amendment versus those who are trying to get common sense gun control laws. how do you close that enthusiasm gap? >> well, if you were on the ground here with our moms, you would see there's absolutely no gap whatsoever. the slaughter of 26 americans in the sanctity of an elementary school completely changed the landscape. the gun lobby has done a good job for making people terrified they are going to have their guns taken away. we are terrified our children are going to be taken away and we will no longer tolerate congress or other elected officials let the gun lobby make the rules. we are not against the second amendment, we are about the

responsibility that comes along with rights. we will fight for that until our dying breath. >> shannon, some people are afraid of their guns being taken away, we're afraid of our children being taken aware. thank you if nothing else for that clarity but also for your work. shannon watts, thank you. also thank you to richard cohen. dorian and dafna will be up in our next hour, but up next, my letter of the week. the conditions in new york state are great for business. new york is ranked #2 in the nation for new private sector job creation. and now it's even better because they've introduced startup new york - dozens of tax-free zones where businesses pay no taxes for ten years. you'll get a warm welcome in the new new york. see if your business qualifies at startupny.com

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indians and the redskins. and that's why my letter of the week is to the owner of the washington pro football team that also needs a name change, dan snyder. dear dan, it's me, melissa. look at what the wonderful people of houston did. they decided it was better to catch up with the rest of history rather than to keep grasping onto offensive stereotypes. the elected school board voted to approve the new policy that bars the use of any race or ethnic group as a mascot or nickname. and they had the kids weigh in on what the new team names would be. they did it! now, true, the houston independent school district is not a for-profit professional football team that pulls in something like $381 million in revenue a year, so it might cost you more than just $250,000 to rebrand your team. i actually get that. but eventually, it really will make financial sense in order to make that change. emery university's sports marketing analytics team has found that having a native american mascot in pro football is losing the team $1.6 million

a year in revenue, white mascots who are animals or nonnative american people are actually gaining in value every year. here's what houston superintendent terry greer said about why he pushed for the change in his district, with more than 200,000 students. quote, the time has come for the houston independent school district, the most vibrantly diverse school district in the nation, to acknowledge that some decisions made generations ago need to be reconsidered. traditions are important. but respect for cultural difference and sensitivities matters more. and, dan, here is what you once said about keeping your offensive team name. we'll never change the name, you said. it's that simple. never. you can use caps. now, i know you started your washington redskins original americans foundation, but putting an ethnic slur on a foundation that's supposed to benefit the people you are slurring is just wrong. and your involvement is now

driving actual native american groups away from supporting events that would benefit actual native americans like the recent arizona charity golf tournament to raise money for scholarships that the national indian gaming association and others have now pulled out of because of your involvement. so your foundation is actually undermining efforts to help. seriously, you need to change the name. look, it doesn't have to be a bad change. you can find something even more tough and intimidating and bad ass. look at new orleans, we lost the jazz to utah and ended up with the new orleans hornets nba team and new orleans isn't exactly overrun with hornets, thank goodness. so we changed to the pelicans. now, you might poo-poo the pelican as just some sea bird because the brown pelican is a vicious carnivore that flies up to 65 feet above the ocean and dive bombs its prey, stunning it with the impact and devouring it before it even knows what happened. ha ha, pelicans. now, dan, i know there's been

some support from fans, not from you, for changing your team name to the washington warriors and that's great. love that. but if that's not working for you, let me suggest something else. how about the washington wonks, that sounds pretty tough. at least to those of us in nerdland. sincere sincerely, melissa. you, my friend are a master of diversification. who would have thought three cheese lasagna would go with chocolate cake and ceviche? the same guy who thought that small caps and bond funds would go with a merging markets. it's a masterpiece. thanks. clearly you are type e. you made it phil. welcome home. now what's our strategy with the fondue? diversifying your portfolio? e*trade gives you the tools and resources to get it right. are you type e*? and that's epic, bro, we've forgotten just how good good is. good is setting a personal best before going for a world record.

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on april 20th, 2012, marcus robinson became the first death row inmate in north carolina to have his sentence reduced to life in prison under the state's racial justice act. and this week two years after being taken off death row, he is facing the possibility of returning. the racial justice act was passed in north carolina in 2009 to prevent racial bias in death penalty sentencing, permitting defendants and inmates to challenge death sentences by presenting statistical evidence of racial bias. after the act was passed, researchers at michigan state

university conducted a study on racial bias in jury sfliengds that over a 20-year period in north carolina, prosecutors struck qualified black jurors at 2.5 times the rate of nonblack jurors and the defendants were significantly more likely to be charged if the victim was white. those findings were used to reduce the sentences of four death row inmates in north carolina, including marcus robinson. that was 2012. the same year republicans in the generals s assembly overroad a l weakening the racial justice act. that november they elected a republican governor who five months after being sworn in repealed the racial justice act calling it a loophole to avoid the death penalty. now the state supreme court is deciding whether or not to reduce the sentences decided under the act. the arguments are focused on whether disproportionate striking of black jurors creates or constitutes racial bias. joining me now is tonya green at

the aclu. help folks to understand what precisely is happening in this case? >> the four former death row prisoners who received relief under the racial justice act, the judge found that in their cases and in their counties, in their communities and statewide there's rampant racial discrimination in jury selection by prosecutors, including race-based note taking and details about different jurors that was not information that was used against black jurors to strike black jurors that was not used against similarly situated white jurors as well as things like trainings that the prosecutors had undertaken and provided to each other, curriculum about bypassing and avoiding application of the constitutional law that forbids

discrimination on the basis of race. >> when we talk about the death penalty and racial bias, sometimes folks don't quite get it because as a matter of numbers there are more whites on death row and there are more white people who have been executed, but when we look at executions by the victim's race, it is clear that if the victim of the crime is white, and this is naacp legal defense fund, far more executions of those who had victims who were white and then when we look at death penalty support, far more support among white americans of the death penalty in general, something like 63%, as compared with hispanic or african-americans who have much lower support of the death penalty. how much is race influencing how we even understand what something like the racial justice act is? >> you know, the death penalty is a race oriented policy in this country. it's rooted in lynching, it comes out of slavery, it was in a way moving lynching into the

courtroom, so it's not surprising that to this day we have all white and mostly white jurors across the country, not just in former slave states, but across the country that are judging mostly black defendants and mostly defendants for -- accused of murder of white victims. it is -- we need racial justice legislation to route out racial bias in jury selection, we need racial justice legislation to route out prosecute yal -- there's no real limit on their discretion in determining whether or not to seek the death penalty in cases and over time they have consistently elected to seek death in cases where there are white victims more than anyone else. >> so was north carolina or -- it was my impression that north carolina was really at the forefront of making sort of

fairer policies around this very long history with the racial justice act. were there any other states that were following suit? and has north carolina with this repeal and how the repeal and attempt to resentence, are they moving backward? >> yes, north carolina was at the forefront and is moving backwards. about 30 years ago there was a supreme court case where the court found that despite evidence that blacks were four times more likely to receive the death penalty, the court said a certain amount of racial bias is to be expected in the criminal justice system given the history of this country. but that if states wanted to address it, they should. and the federal government, congress had about ten pieces of legislation along the same lines the racial justice act proposed after the decision in 1987, none of which passed. kentucky proposed similar legislation and it did pass, it's a pretrial remedy, but

north carolina was a ground-breaker in the type of legislation that passed and the comprehensiveness of it. and now just as justice brennan said in the mccluskey decision where justice brennan dissented saying there's a fear of too much justice and that's why the supreme court was unwilling to proceed. i feel that the same thing is happening in north carolina. >> a reminder that elections in fact do have consequences. >> absolutely. >> thank you, tanya greene. coming up next is a potential break-through already breaking down in ukraine. and the vote that could shake up college sports, basketball star swin cash joins us live to talk about it. there's more nerdland at the top of the hour. step seven point two one two. verify and lock. command is locked. five seconds. three, two, one. standing by for capture.

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watching out for things your credit card alone can't. [ alert rings ] and relentlessly protecting your identity. get lifelock protection and live life free. [ alert rings ] welcome back. i'm melissa harris-perry. the back and forth between ukraine and russia continues in spite of an interim agreement reached by diplomatic representatives on thursday. tensions ran high before the

agreement was announced as pro-russian protesters tried to storm a ukrainian base in the eastern part of the country on tuesday. according to ukraine's foreign minister, that resulted in a firefight that left three activists dead, 13 wounded and 63 captured. there are reports that jewish ukrainians were confronted with masked men handing out leaflets demanding that jews register and pay a fine or leave the area. this move has been denounced and denied by pro-russian groups who have been implicated and also by u.s. secretary of state john kerry, who emerged after nearly seven hours of negotiations with the e.u.'s foreign policy chief and foreign ministers of both russia and ukraine and had this to say. >> the parties agreed today that all sides must refrain from the use of violence, intimidation or provocative actions. we strongly condemned and rejected all expressions of extremism, racism and religious intolerance, including

anti-semitism. just in the last couple of days, notices were sent to jews in one city indicating that they had to identify themselves. this is not just intolerable, it's grotesque. it is beyond unacceptable. >> with regards to the actual agreement that the foreign diplomatic representatives came to, kerry had this to say. >> we agreed today that all illegal armed groups must be disarmed. that all illegally seized buildings must be returned to their legitimate owners. and all illegally occupied streets, squares and other public places in ukrainian cities and towns must be vacated. >> secretary kerry went on to say while thursday was a good day's work, right now they are only principles and words on paper and will be reinforced only by actions that will be

taken. a sentiment president obama echoed a short time later. >> we're not going to know whether in fact there's follow-through on these statements for several days. my hope is that we actually do see follow-through over the next several days, but i don't think given past performance that we can count on that and we have to be prepared to potentially respond to what continue to be efforts of interference by the russians in eastern and southern ukraine. >> while the allies were hammering away at a deal, russian president vladimir putin took to national television in a four-hour q & a show where he took a prerecorded question from edward snowden and reportedly referred to south ukraine as new russia and admitted that russian troops were active in crimea before the referendum. not every russian ukraine wants to become part of the russian federation. on thursday night thousands of

people in donetsk with no desire to join russia took to the streets and held protests. on friday, the leader of the pro-russian separatist group called the donetsk peoples public bowed to ignore the agreement reached on thursday until the government in kiev resigned. pro-russian separatists continue to occupy buildings in the city and show no signs of relenting in spite of being offered amnesty by the ukrainian government. separatists aren't the only ones continuing the defiance. u.s. defense officials have told nbc news despite the agreement reached there is no change in the status of some 40,000 russian troops encamped along the border with ukraine. joining me now is nbc news correspondent jim maceda in ukraine. jim, what's the latest right now? >> reporter: hi, melissa. there's kind of a lull here in eastern ukraine. part of it is due to the easter weekend, both the catholic and orthodox christian services fall this year on the same day, tomorrow, and the kiev

government even announced that today that it was suspending for several days that military offensive to reoccupy some of those occupied centers of state power like police stations and city halls in about 12 different towns during these holidays. in reality, melissa, that offensive has been such a major pr disaster for the ukrainian military that few really believe -- few think that the cease-fire will stop. part of the lull also, melissa, is that the pro-russian militants are just waiting to see what the other side is going to do next. separatist leaders have said that they're not pulling out of their positions, for instance, until the members of the kiev government resign, but it's also the case that these very same militants haven't expanded those checkpoints or seizures of buildings now for several days. meanwhile, the first osce official that arrived here in

d do donetsk. they see pro-russian militants have the will to deescalate unless russia pushes them to do that, but we're not seeing that happen. >> jim, obviously one of the things that's been most alarming in terms of international reports is about the jewish registration leaflets. what have you had a chance to find out about that? >> reporter: that's right. we know now that the jewish community is breathing a little easier. there are 15,000 of them, it's a small minority in a city of one million plus, but it's come to the conclusion that the leaflets themselves were a hoax, a provocation. but that still doesn't make the chief rabbi of donetsk any less angry. he told me yesterday that the very fact that something like this could happen after so much dark history of anti-semitism, atrocities against jews during world war ii, the fascist nazi occupation, et cetera, in a country like that over decades

it was to him, he said, like a bad dream come true. meanwhile the alleged perpetrators are still at large. the pro-russian separatist leadership as you mentioned in your lead deny any involvement as all, so it's still very unclear who's behind it, but it remains a very explosive issue for obvious reasons. back to you. >> nbc's jim maceda in ukraine. thank you for joining me. now at the table, dorian warren, associate professor of political science at columbia university, nina, associate professor of international affairs at the new school. dafna linzer, managing editor, msnbc.com and alexander motel professor of political science. so nice to have you all here. i want to start with you, alexander, because i'm interested in -- it's hard for us to tell from here. but help us understand what are the relative sizes of the groups within ukraine that may have differing positions about this reunification, as some folks would call it, or takeover of

aspects of ukraine, parts of it with russia? >> a number of public opinion surveys in the last few weeks and then just recently in the last few days show fairly conclusively that at most people in the southeast provinces of ukraine, those who favor reunification, annexation or something along those lines with russia number no more than about 20% of the total population of these regions. so it's roughly four to one against. now, if you go into the two most contested provinces, there the numbers rise to about 30%. there was another poll just taken yesterday asking people in the southeast do you consider the president to be a legitimate president? 75% to 80% said he's illegitima illegitimate. >> what's the fault lines? is it ethnicity? is it an age gap? is it geography? what's the primary fault lines?

>> well, it's partly ethnicity. most of these data aren't subdivided along ukraine --ette lick ukrainian versus ethnic russian so it's hard to say. there's a presumption that probably more russians would be in the camp for annexation than ethnic ukrainians but it might not be the case. remember in a province such as donetsk where the sentiment for annexation -- actually it's exactly 28%, russians number about 40%. so even if all the russians -- and so in other words all of the russians could not be for it. >> yes, yes, right, right. >> so we don't know. so there's that. then of course the age issue is obviously a very important factor. so just two days ago there was a significant demonstration in the city of luhans, 2,000 to 3,000 students from the university were arguing for the retention of ukrainian unity. you go to the other

demonstrations where the pro-russians are, you find at least in terms of the impressions one gets from the video footage, lots of old people. >> because you end up with that generational divide. so on the one hand we have this very complicated internal narrative about ukraine and what ukrainians want. on the other hand there is the simultaneously putin and what it is that he is hoping to do with this president. as we were listening to secretary kerry saying, oh, we're not going to put up with any shows of intimidation and all of us at the table were did you see all the troops over there? what is putin up to at this point in this process? >> intimidation, that's exactly what he's doing. he has been doing it all along since february, and he unfortunately has been very successful in that. he doesn't even need to attack, he doesn't even need to use those troops to attack all those parts of ukraine, of eastern ukraine. the only thing he needs is just to stay there and make sure that

any interested party who wants to go against him or against those who are for russia to be with russia is there to make sure that he can show force, just in case, so that's -- when you pointed out the troops are still there, they will be there. i think they will certainly be there until the elections that are now scheduled for the end of may. and that's what his goal is, is he's going to keep ukraine either whole ukraine or parts of ukraine as a buffer between the west and himself because his idea that russia is being abused, insulted, lied to by the west, and he's going to be his own power now. >> and there's nothing in the interim agreement itself that asks for these troops to be moved. >> exactly. >> that's right. and you know what, ukraine was in a position to resist. they had everything they needed to do that. they don't need the united states to resist, they have everything. but they were divided and, frankly, incompetent. putin is neither. >> that's right. >> he doesn't have any of those

problems. so i think the test language that the president and john kerry when they used trust but verify but don't really trust but also have to verify i think is important. but again as nina says, this has been going on for a long time. if putin wants a demonstration effect, like the neocons used to talk about in the run up to the iraq invasion, it's very easy for him to do. >> stay with us, because i want to ask also about sort of why u.s. public opinion should care and why this matters to us when, you know, in fact some of the late-night comedians have been showing how few americans can kind ukraine and/or russia on the map when we come back. [ male announcer ] staples has everything you need to get your client's attention. from brochures to business cards to banners. everything... except your client's attention. thousands of products added every day to staples.com, even bullhorns. how much?

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on tuesday, vice president joe biden will meet with government leaders in kiev, ukraine, to underscore the continues u.s. support for united and democratic ukraine. this is biden's second visit to the region in a little more than a month. in march he visited with baltic leaders. another u.s. politician visited the baltic region and he had an interesting idea on how to handle vladimir putin. >> the only thing that vladimir putin understands is strength. there has been the weakest response imaginable, sanction a few people and one bank. the fact that the united states will not give defensive weapons to ukraine, including body armor, night goggles, jet fuel, spare parts, the fact we will not even give that in fear of provoking vladimir putin only

encourages vladimir putin. >> is the u.s. making things better or worse, dorian, our involvement at this point? >> i think we just saw a contrast between old hawkish 20th century notions and understandings of the problem versus a 21st century diplomatic approach. i think that's important for the american public to understand. we do have at least two approaches to this problem. it's very complex. people wanting to make it into a black and whitish y-- whit white issue. john mccain shows the neoconpolicy -- we've seen that, walked down that road many times and seen the outcomes from that. i think what we're seeing from the president and the secretary of state and vice president is a diplomatic -- not that i fully agree with it and i think there's a lot of shortcomings but it's a diplomatic approach and we need more diplomacy, not less in this moment.

>> in the context of diplomacy, nina, is the u.s. the best player to do that diplomacy? what about cameron, what about countries we don't normally think of as playing this role? is there someone else where the putin situation might be a little softer than it is between the u.s. and mr. putin? >> well, i think we talked about maybe even on this show that europe should have been or is, should be the greatest player not only because russia is, as barack obama, is a regional power but also they really have infinite investment in russia. they really have connections. angela merkel as we all know speaks russian, vladimir putin speaks very good german, so the conversation should have been probably led by europe. but europe also has its own shortcomings, as very close relationship, economic relationship with russia. >> the pipelines. >> exactly, the pipelines. so as dorian just mentioned, there's more diplomacy, not

less. and on many different levels, not just saying, oh, we're going to scare putin with our own cannon because he would roll out his cannon and say my cannon is bigger than yours. >> oh, yes, i so believe that he would do that. probably shirtless he would. >> absolutely. he's going to show his man boobs and all sorts of other things. so i think that the multi layer diplomacy, i know sounds very wishy-washy, but yet i think it's the solution that probably would work better than anything else. >> so one of the things i want to ask about as we think about diplomacy but also this impending -- you know, the military presence that is still there on the border, is there any possibility of the thing that often happens in other kinds of international crises, which is humanitarian crisis beginning to emerge or is this really just kind of a standoff? is there any reason to think that the people of ukraine themselves could end up in circumstances that are deeply problematic as a humanitarian matter? >> that would require something in the nature of a civil war

essentially. i don't see that happening. those 80% that i mentioned before, none of them wants a war, none of them wants a civil war. ukraine doesn't want a war and ukraine doesn't want a civil war, so if something like that were to happen, it would be the initiative either of putin's agents within ukraine or of these extremists who seized the buildings. so the ball is in his court. let me just emphasize one thing, by the way. the notion that diplomacy precludes strength or vice versa is fundamentally incorrect. i would think that the appropriate approach for the united states and the west in general would be a combination of soft and hard power. something has to be done to assuage ukrainian nerves. they are absolutely terrified of some kind of attack, and you can understand that. and they're asking for minimal defensive weapons.

we're not talking about enormous armaments being shipped to ukraine, but even those sorts of gestures would assuage their nerves, settle things down a bit, give them the confidence to proceed. >> and you don't think that it would just sort of ramp up putin? to see even minor -- >> if the united states were to supply cannon and things of that sort, sure. but that's not the issue. >> not body armor and goggles. >> we're talking about defensive weapons. >> nina, dafna and alexander, thank you to all of you for being here. dorian will stick around. another update on the south korean ferry that sank earlier this week. the death toll has risen to 32. more than 270 passengers are still missing and search efforts are continuing. the captain of the ship apologized to the family members of passengers aboard the ship. he was arrested yesterday and is facing five charges, including criminal negligence. stay with msnbc throughout the day for the latest developments. we'll be right back. who are we?

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the men's and women's final four, the conclusion to the national obsession that is the ncaa basketball tournament led to two winners from one school. both the men's and women's teams from the university of connecticut are champions in the same year. again. they did this in 2004 and now again in 2014. the only school to have ever pulled off such a feat, and they have done it twice. but that wasn't the main headline coming out of march madness as far as i was concerned. the bigger story was what uconn point guard shabazz napier said in the locker room days earlier when asked about the efforts of northwestern football players to form a union. >> we're definitely blessed to get a scholarship to our universities beat the end of the day that doesn't cover everything. we do have hungry nights we don't have enough money to get food and sometimes money is needed. there are hungry nights that i

go to bed and i'm starving, so something can change, something should change but if it doesn't, at the end of the day we've been doing this for so long. >> eight days after napier scored his second championship win and the final four mvp, the ncaa indicated that they're at least willing to change on one particular issue, snacks. the ncaa's legislative council approved a proposal to expand the meal allowance for all athletes. it would allow division i schools to provide unlimited meals and snacks to all athletes, including walk-on players who aren't on scholarship. on friday, ncaa president mark emmert said on espn radio that he was happy the rule is going away and that, quote, if uconn wants to she had shabazz breakfast in bed every day, they can. now, again, it's just an indication that they're going to be willing to change. the measure still has to be approved by the ncaa board of directors this thursday, april 24th. one day after that, another vote is going to take place among

northwestern university's football players. one that could reshape the landscape of college sports beyond some extra change for groceries and an occasional pizza. uconn basketball legend swin cash and my panel are going to discuss that next. ♪ no two people have the same financial goals. pnc investments works with you to understand yours and helps plan for your retirement. talk to a pnc investments financial advisor today. ♪ and that's epic, bro, we've forgotten just how good good is. good is setting a personal best before going for a world record. good is swinging to get on base before swinging for a home run. [ crowd cheering ]

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a potentially historic labor vote will take place this coming friday, not in an auto plant or a teachers lounge, but among a group of college football players who will decide by secret ballot whether or not they will form a union. they can take this vote because in march the chicago district of the national labor relations board ruled that the players on the northwestern university football team were employees of the school and, therefore, legally entitled to union representation. it isn't just the media or players themselves who are curious to know what will happen next. many college presidents who could now be considered employers want to know how this will shake out. according to "the wall street

journal" northwestern university's president has been fielding questions from colleagues around the country in recent weeks and they want to know more about the decision. among the things he had to say, the decision applies only to northwestern for now, but not forever. northwestern university will fully exercise its right to campaign against the unionization and fight the decision to the supreme court if necessary. joining me now to discuss the vote and its implications are dorian warren, associate professor of political science at columbia university, amy cane nelson, jamel hill, co-host of espn 2's "numbers never lie" and david epstein. also joining us from chicago is swin cash, most recently of the wnba chicago sky. she's a three-time wnba champion and two-time olympic gold medalist and two-time ncaa champion during her days of playing at the university of connecticut. nice to have you, swin. >> thanks for having me. >> and let me just start by saying congratulations that your

school did this amazing thing again this year. >> yes. >> that was pretty extraordinary to watch. >> yes, a lot of pride. we're really happy. i was happy to be there for the semifinal game for the men and saw the women win it as well, so it's exciting. >> so talk to me a little bit, were you at all surprised to hear shabazz talk about hungry nights? is that something that was stunning, i think, for a lot of people listening. >> well, i wasn't surprised because athletes have talked about this for a very long time. i think more people were surprised that he said it to the media instead. but athletes have talked about this. it's been a conversation that's been going on for many years. i have to give credit to shabazz for just stepping up to the plate knowing that he could do a great service for other athletes coming behind him. >> it does feel like this is a moment where we're increasingly seeing athletes even in circumstances where they're, you know, possibly vulnerable using their voice to talk about their circumstances, whether it's at the pro level or in this case at the college level.

>> you know, a group, whenever you -- i guess i can use the word suppress a group so long in a number of ways, at some point someone stands up and you have to give credit to northwestern what they're doing over there because it only takes one group to actually stand up, have a voice and stand on principle and up for their rights for other groups and other organizations or other student athletes in this case that will follow. so i think everyone across the country is looking at northwestern because they understand that this is something that needs to be in the conversation. it needs to be out there in the forefront and if we're not talking about it in the media, then, you know, how can players be able to stand up for themselves. >> the other thing, jamel, that it feels like it does, it often will reveal the other side in surprising ways. in fact mark emmert said on your air the thing about breakfast in bed. and that really felt revealing. this kid just won the mvp and he's saying i went to bed hungry

and your response is, well, good luck with that. let them eat cake. >> it was funny because we actually had shabazz napier and stephanie dolson from the women's team on friday. we served shabazz breakfast on air. >> what did you serve? >> pancakes, sausage, eggs. we know that night he didn't go to bed hungry. he admitted in some ways he was using a bit of hyperbole because he wanted them to understand what this situation is. the ncaa is not motivated to change. why would you be when you've been able to, as swin said, suppress the actual workforce for so long and reap all of the profits. i made this sort of analogy before and it's been made many times in some respects. i saw a documentary on hbo about pimps and prostitutes. one of the things the pimp said and i think it was bishop don juan, trust me, this is not going to a dangerous area, she's like what is she about to say.

the five-second delay button, but one of the things he said is that if you're funding everything, i'm motivated to give them nothing. he's like nothing, why? i think the ncaa, the fact that it used to be a conversation about whether a bagel was a snack or a meal, they really were having those conversations, just illuminates just how suppressive they have allowed themselves to be when it comes to college athletes. >> this is an interesting point. why not, i'm going to keep going with the pimp-ho analogy here only because there's something here about the fact that now these young men are going to take the vote at northwestern themselves. one of the things that we know about abusive relationship, which i'm going to say a sex worker/pimp relationship is, is sometimes people at the lower part of that relationship will, even when they have an opportunity supposedly to get out or to stand up for themselves, sometimes won't because of the nature of just presuming that relationship is almost natural. i say all of that to ask do you

think there's any possibility that these young people will in fact vote not to unionize? >> i think there's a chance. i think the vote is totally up in the air. we've already seen some people expressing they will vote not to unionize. their coach, who's a father figure, is telling them not to unionize. their alumni player come back an told them not to unionize. you think of it in terms of being a certain kind of brotherhood that they feel some allegiance to, absolutely that's going to color their opinion. there might be people who might be worried about how it might affect them on the field or their future there. absolutely i think it's totally up in the air. northwestern has expressed its right to fight this unionization and there's no question that's going to change some votes. >> i'm interested in part in what we were talking about earlier with college presidents. because if i'm a college president, i can see why i wouldn't want the union so why i'd be calling up northwestern. i also could see why i want want it. i would want the ncaa not making the decisions about what happens on my campus. immaterial i'm a college president, i'm college faculty,

i want to make the decisions on my campus. do you think that there are any entrepreneurial universities out there that say, you know what, you can unionize on our campus because we see that as presenting an alternative? >> right. the entrepreneurial universities are the art schools, the ones that don't have football and basketball programs. this is a unified message that the ncaa senlt out in a memo with certain talking points that not only everyone on team ncaa should be sort of expressing to the media but it was a clear message of power. here we are, we are the governing body and you are members of it and you need to listen to us and stay on point, on message. now, are private conversations happening all the time off the record? of course. but you're not going to see at all -- i'd be very shocked, i don't know if anyone here would be, you're not going to see some renegade college president stand up and say, you know what, i'm here with you students and let's unionize and i'm for it. >> oh, so much for the great lefty academy. hold on for one second.

stay with us because i want to ask you again about this language about the coach telling them not to unionize when we come back and what we call that in the land of unions when we come back. why is our arizona-based company relocating manufacturing to upstate new york? i tell people it's for the climate. the conditions in new york state are great for business. new york is ranked #2 in the nation for new private sector job creation. and now it's even better because they've introduced startup new york - dozens of tax-free zones where businesses pay no taxes for ten years. you'll get a warm welcome in the new new york. see if your business qualifies at startupny.com then a little time to kick back. earn double hilton honors points with the 2x points package and be one step closer to a weekend break. doubletree by hilton. where the little things mean everything.

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available as an oral rinse, toothpaste, spray or gel, biotene can provide soothing relief, and it helps keep your mouth healthy, too. remember, while your medication is doing you good, a dry mouth isn't. biotene -- for people who suffer from dry mouth. the northwestern football team takes a secret ballot vote this upcoming friday on whether to you know you knunionize. about $170 million a year thinks they're making a mistake. steve patterson told espn.com thursday that he's listened to the case being made for unionization and he thinks all of their grievances are already being addressed and the whole thing smells of guys in the legal profession looking for a fee. one of the player's most vocal opponents has been their own head coach, pat fitzgerald, who himself is the university's highest paid employee. one more time, he is the

university's highest paid employee, getting $2.2 million in compensation in 2011. shortly after the national labor relations board ruling that made the players employeres. fitzgerald said i believe it's in their best interests to vote no. with the research that i've done, i'm going to stick to the facts and do everything in my power to educate our guys. our university is going to do that. we'll give them all the resources they need to get the facts. as you might imagine, our good friend, dave ziron, sports editor at the nation, had some thoughts about that. fitzgerald should stick to coaching and get out of the union-busting business. is it union busting, dorian? >> absolutely. and let's remember in this case northwestern is not a university, it's an employer and a multi billion dollar industry. this is classic. this happens all the time in national labor relations board election campaigns. when workers courageously stand up and say we want to change the conditions here, what's the immediate thing any employer does, any boss does? intimidation, threats.

one out of four workers is fired illegally by their employer. northwestern probably won't fire their athletes, but you better believe they are being threatened, they are being intimidated. northwestern is using fear right now, and it's already working because we already know that some of the players have changed their minds. so this happens to workers all the time. it's the classic anti-union playbook that northwestern is using as an employer, not a university. >> swin, let me ask you a question. given that most of the union members of professional sports, nfl, nba, wnba, were ncaa players at one time, is there any -- could you manlimagine a ground swell of support of adult alum coming back to support these young people in needing to make these decisions given that they're dealing with the uni union-busting activity of their employers? >> let me address pat right now. he needs to take several seats. first of all, seriously, pat, you come into these kids' home,

you come to mothers and fathers and talk about how i'm going to take care of your kid and look out for their best interest. no, you're looking out for your own best interest. how can you sit there with a fat check and talk about you have players' rights and you have players that are saying they're hungry. players traveling, coming back late night, restaurants and places aren't open to get food. he can go take several seats. i can't believe he's commenting. coaches, stay out of it. i think as a player for me that's on the executive committee with the wnba, of course we would, because players need to have rights. this isn't just about players getting money. what i like and what i'm seeing right now and as the commissioner of nba, he's taken the initiative to try to start conversations with the ncaa to try to talk about how they can do something on the basketball side to help some of these players stay in school. i'm glad that he's an advocate for change, but we need more people out there in on this conversation and starting this dialogue in a way that the players are having more security and being able to stand up for themselves and get the rights

and everything they financially deserve. like don't have a jersey with my number on it but not my name on it, selling and getting money. come on. >> swin, we know the headline now, swin cash tells coach to have several seats. but part of it is when we look just at the map across the country, david, of basketball and football coaches, right, in all of these states, the highest paid public employee is either an athletic director or a coach. and the idea that states are paying the coaches that but now we're saying, oh, no, we couldn't possibly pay the kids, who in fact jen ralt the revenue. >> highest paid by a lot in many states ever in many cases. and what you're seeing, pat fitzgerald is acting like an employer. i think it's no secret. he's protecting sort of his space. there's a business model that's set that limits costs for the employer and they want to protect that. and so i think it's why it seems like a reasonable ruling that the regional national labor

relations board made. >> and it's about power too. it's the power being threatened by these universities. >> will the ncaa collapse under this? >> i think there's actually a huge potential -- collapse, i think that's a little -- >> smush. will it have a seat? >> that would be nice. i think a lot of people would love to see it have a seat. i think one thing that i really want to highlight here is that these players this week are under extraordinary pressure to make a very difficult decision. make no mistake, pat fitzgerald is their boss. you are talking about how the school essentially is their employer. they have to make a moral and ethical decision, short term -- potentially damage their short-term athletic prospects because they're going against what the coach stated he's not in favor are of or look out long-term for the player that say come behind them. >> and they're 20. >> yes. >> and he is their employer and i've seen it over and over again with recruited athletes but they act like they're your parent. and so there's -- >> absolutely. >> my employer doesn't come sit in my living room and say nice,

friendly things about how they're going to take care of me, so it helps you to see, oh, that person is my employer. in this case the relationship is modeled. >> yeah. and the other thing was i think that people are also missing it hasn't been in the conversation is when i went to uconn, my scholarship was paid by one of our donors. there's a lot of universities now that get -- that donors are paying for scholarships while people are saying that the money is coming from the universities. look at the university of connecticut. the university of connecticut, i mean when i went there there were cows on campus and now it's an unbelievable campus. people talk about uconn because the basketball program has been a marketing tool that has lured more students there to pay. like there are other layers to this that people aren't discussing, but the coaches coming in and having conversations with parents and saying you're going to take care of the kid and now pretty much suppressing them is outrageous. >> thank you so much, swin cash in chicago. i think you're right, there's a lot more to continue to talk about. with the vote on friday, maybe we'll get a chance to in fact keep talking about it. dorian warren, jamel hill and

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many kids grow up dreaming of becoming a professional athlete and our foot soldier of the week was one of those kids. but he made a commitment back in high school that if he didn't make it to the nba, he would still provide a valuable assist in another way. by cooking for basketball stars. his determination actually got him pretty close to the goal, landing him in the kitchen of another nba player and superstar of the new york knicks, amare stoudemire. chef max used his influence to create one chef can 86 hunger. one of the goals of the program is to educate inner city students on maintaining healthy and cost effective eating habits. >> let's collect all the chicken. let's get it washed up so we can get it seasoned. >> we have a high crime rate. we have some health issues.

as far as obesity, hunger. our foundation one chef 86 hunger. we wanted to come in harlem and stop and help the epidemic of hunger and raise awareness at the same time. >> he's cooking us how to cook everything. i want to go into culinary arts too. >> what i learned from chef max is you have to -- if you want something, you have to go get it. >> i get excited for telling people about what i do and what he's teaching me. >> joining me now is our foot soldier, chef max hardy. so nice to have you here. what is the problem or problems you're trying to address with this foundation? >> we're trying to raise awareness of hunger in our inner cities and 86 hunger which 86 means to end in culinary terms. but at the same type, teaching healthy living and cost effective ways of doing that. you think kids have 5 bucks and they go to the bodega and have lunch but actually you can feed your whole family with 5 bucks

if you really try. we try to show kids how to make it happen. >> when you say that, i'm going to pause on that, because you call that strategic food shopping. what is that? >> it's three ps. planning, purchasing and then preparing. you plan it out for the week and then you make that happen. but i can buy a pound of chicken. i can buy two pounds of chicken. my brown rice, brockr broccoli. >> how is it different from packaged food at the bodega? >> at first they're stand offish to it because they're not used to it. i say, let's try it, versus doing regular french fries, let's do zucchini fries and introduce it in a fun way. and they're accepting to it. >> i'm part of an organization in northeew orleans that is tryo increase the number of minority chefs who are leading in the countries. we often in the city see different group of the kind of service staff versus the chefs

themselves. why do you think there is that representation gap? >> i think it was never, you know, anything that was, like, popular. it wasn't cool to be a chef. it was cool to be a bartender. and you never get to see chef. now that chefs are on tv, all these shows, now it's kind of cool to be a chef. we want to raise awareness and teach kids. >> how did you come to love food? >> you know, my family, there's always something we had every sunday. we sat around the dinner table and talked and loved food. and my grandmother's an amazing cook. i had to really enjoy cooking because i wanted to be in the kitchen with her and hang out. my mop, shem, she's an amazing . that's how it started. my interest spiked when i realized i wasn't going to the nba so i had to really get going. >> often our foot soldiers will tell us they start out to solve a problem but then they end up learning as much from the people they're working with. >> well, it's simple because, you know, we look at it, we teaching kids, but at the same

time, they're giving back to me because it's fulfilling. they make a dish and at the end of it, wow, it tastes good and it's healthy for me. it's self-rewarding. the foundation really prides in that. our whole staff get to see kids kind of change their lines firsthand so -- >> if i'm watching at home now in a completely different cook and i'm a great cook and i want to do something, what would your advice be? >> it varies. i love healthy eating. that's kind of my lifestyle. eating healthier. i'm already -- like grill vegetables. spring is here so now it's time for the spring recipes. some nice avocado salads and therefore. spring is my thing right now. >> i love that. thank you. thank you so much for the work with the young people in the community. thank you to max hardy. and speaking of spring, in addition to zucchini salad, we want to bright be up your spring. we're asking for you to send to us pictures of your little ones in all three spring fashions.

we're calling it babes in nerdland. you can tweet us pictures. or #nerdland. we're going to pick out our favorites and air them together. that i my little baby bunny right there, a.j., hey. that's our show for today. thanks to you at home for watching. i'll see you tomorrow morning. now it's type fime for a previeh alex wit. >> baby doll, literally. thank you so much, melissa. the death toll rises as the search for those missing continues after a devastating avalanche on the world's tallest mountain. surveillance games. edward snowden now suddenly defending himself and the question he asked russian president putin this week. overreaction. condoleezza rice confronted with protests and online boycotts this week. and the literal buzz surrounding this weekend. don't go anywhere. the day we rescued riley was a truly amazing day.

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new complications in that south korean disaster. why divers can't seem to reach the sunken ferry, as relatives of the missing demand more answers. tragedy near the highest point on earth. why rescuers are going back to where the incident happened. and will others keep climbing everest today? delaying a decision. final word on the keystone xl pipeline will be left for another day. does this latest move give us a hint what the white house might do in the end? in office politics, tam ring hall tackles a big question about president obama and other u.s. leaders, plus, she talks about a tattoo. hey there, everyone. high noon in the east, 9:00 a.m. in the west. the situation grows more desperate in south korea at the hour. bad weather and choppy waters complicate the latest search for any hint of survivors on board that sunken ferry off the as