2,000 feet. ♪ still looking very good. 1,400 feet. [ male announcer ] a funny thing happens when you shoot for the moon. ahh, that's affirmative. [ male announcer ] you get there. you're a go for landing, over. [ male announcer ] the all new cadillac cts, the 2014 motor trend car of the year. thanks for disrupting your afternoon. i'm karen finney. coming up in this hour, the president has a challenge for democrats. and why grandmother is a political sorry. a rancher, is she a dead bet or a hero? i recognize that their party is going through the stages of grief. anger and denial and all that stuff. >> i just lost it. >> 35% of people who enroll through the federal marketplace are under the age of 35.

>> this system is riddled with errors and destined for failure. >> this is all bull. >> this is all bull. >> 8 million people, 8 million peop people. >> this is all bull. >> hundreds of millions of americans who already have insurance have new benefits and protections. >> this is all bull. >> i don't think we should apologize for it. >> this is all bull. >> it's a disaster. it's going to take long eer for people to figure it out. >> this thing is working. this week president obama issued a sharp challenge to democrats. >> i think that democrats should forcefully defend and be proud of the fact that millions of people like the woman i just described who i saw in pennsylvania yesterday we're

helping because of something we did. i don't hi we should apologize for it. i don't think we should be defensive about it. i think there's a strong, good, right story to tell. >> as the president pointed out, 8 million people have signed up on the exchanges. 28% of those young invincibles. not to mention an additional 6 million young adults and children gain coverage through obamacare and 5 million enrolled outside the marketplace. now although the numbers are still coming many, early signs suggest many of those people are getting covered for the first time. 4% of americans are newly ensured this year and more than half of them got insurance through the exchanges. all of this is great news unless you're one of the estimated 5.7 million people who live in one of 24 states where republican governors or legislators are blocking the expansion. sounds like a strong 2014 offensive message to me. especially when you look at what

happened this week when republican members of congress went home to face constituents. some of whom are are now covered thanks to the aca. republicans had no response when asked why they want to take away benefits and no real plan of their own to tout. let's bring in our panel. dana milbank, jim albui, zer lean na maxwell, and mccay coppens, political e editor for buzzfeed. thank you for joining us. dana, i'm going to start with you. how much now do you think this plays into the 2014 calculous? the president was more an malted saying gop, get over it, democrats, step up to the plate. >> as well he should be. temperatures good to hear him doing that. a lot of democrats need to hear the president saying that because they have been supporting the law before and the rug is pulled out and something goes wrong.

so it is good for him to be saying that. the problem is a lot of the senate democrats who are in danger are in state where is obamacare isn't going very well because of those republican governors. it's not going to work for the people in the most danger. >> it was interesting because we did sort of see republicans moderating their language a little bit. those in places where people are covered by the aca and i want to play something from an ad that kay hagan who is in a tough race in north carolina put out this week. >> here's republican senate candidate thom tillis describing obamacare. that was just this february. you can look it up. tillis supported an exchange in north carolina. so he thinks he can attack kay hagan something he calls a great idea. >> some democrats are going on offensive. >> absolutely. i think it depends on the state you're in, but certainly as

people become covered for the first time and as kind of the early wave of incredibly negative press coverage fades in memory, we're going to see a lot of people say, i kind of like this, i don't mind these benefits of obamacare. i do think it's interesting. as much as 2010 and 2012 were about obamacare, this upcoming election is going to be about a debate where both sides are owning a position in a way they haven't in the past and we're going to have a debate in a lot of these states and races about obamacare that we haven't really had yet because it hadn't been fully implemented. >> some democrats have expressed frustration because what will be happening in the fall is the confirmation hearings of sylvia burrwell and their concern is that will take away from their offensive message and put them on defense. >> if democrats continue to emphasize even in a red state where the law has not been implemented well that this law

is delivered benefits to you and your family, this law if it is repealed, if it's undermined it will harm you materially. it's still a strategy that will work regardless of the challeng challenges. the challenge is say in krooi where obamacare is connect, it's connected the state level program to the national program in a positive way and trying to get like the warm feeling from the state level programs o to obamacare. >> to that point, that is the job that the candidates should be doing. make that connection where possible. and the other thing is it strikes me, if you're in a state where the governor or the legislature is blocking medicaid expansion, we're talking millions of people. why not take them to task for that? >> we're talking 10,000 people a year that will die because republicans are blocking medicaid. we're talking life and death and this is beyond the politics of it. what we're seeing here this week

is that the previous news about the website and the glitches paled in comparison. i signed up pr br for obamacare because i'm a freelancer and there was so much hype about the website that i really wanted to not have to recycle my inhaler for a year. that was a lot more frustrating than not being able to log on and sign up right away. >> so dana, we know the gop has been having some trouble find ing people who legitimately are having problems with obamacare. when are we going to see democrats making ads with people who either say i could have health care if it weren't for my governor not doing the medicaid expansion or o i don't have to recycle my inhaler. >> it's a little gross. >> i'm surprised we're not hearing more of it.

that's what works. the first rule in politics is if you're explaining, you're losing. get on the offensive and don't make apologies for it. they need a balance saying obamacare is not going to be a huge winning issue for them. so we can stipulate that. they have stopped the bleeding and doesn't need to be a real drag on them. that's what the president is saying. answer the charge forcefully and then move on to jobs where they have a much stronger case. >> it strikes me that the other place they have a strong case is the ryan budget. paul ryan came out and was perfectly honest about the fact that in his budget, he does not pay and will not have some of the most popular features like keeping your kids on until you're 26. if you're up against a republican who voted for that budget or up against a republican who voted against it because they thought it didn't go far enough, that's a message

for you right there. >> that's a key way to hammer your republican opponent. and i think the important thing to recognize is this is not going to be an election of persuasion. i don't think democrats running in tough states are going to be able to persuade their republican voters or even lean right voters, vote for me and you'll get more government progra programs. the key is getting their supporters out, getting their base out. i actually think sort of not just using obamacare as a hey, things aren't bad, but actively putting out obamacare and hitting the ryan budget is a way to actually energize voters and say you have a real stake in this. >> this is the problem for democrats. 24-year-olds who haven't have insurance don't generally vote in midterm elections. so republicans are counting on the people who genuinely angry about obamacare being the ones that always show up. >> now in the message we heard

this week, they are using -- we are cooking the books. the change in the way they are going to ask one question on the ken us is is going to change everything. but then -- >> that was from the naim times. >> a fair point was made, the change shouldn't get in the way of how many people got insurance from obamacare. the government runs two other major surveys on the uninsured. one is called the national health interview survey, the census bureau runs the american community survey. so to that point, there are other sources of data. >> there's also an organization called gallup that isn't run by the united states government and fewer people are uninsured. particularly in states that are cooperating in implementing.

this is going to succeed or fail based on how people feel. nobody is signing up, they were forced to sign up. all of that is going to fade away and it's going to be a question of how it works. the question is how do you get the democrats past the worst of it and how do you get to the point where enough people feel the benefits. >> and there you have it. i think we will never get to the point of acceptance from the gop. we will just have to give that up. my panel is sticking with me. if not hillary clinton, then who? politics and pregnancy collide with speculation about hillary clinton's 2016 aspirations in the wake of the news she will soon be a grandmother. who else might be considering a run? that's next. in the nation, it's not always pretty.

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news this week that chelsea clinton is pregnant set off a conversation that most democrats have not prepared themselves for. if not healthcare hx, then who? no sooner she made the announcement the theories, analysis and speculation began flying around. what's the motivation for announcing it now? maybe she's pregnant and that's good news? how will she choose between being a grandmother and being president? one radio host even suggested that chelsea staged her pregnancy to help her mother's chance ps of winning in 2016. perhaps that theory is meant to distract conservatives from a new fox news poll that showed 54% of likely voters believe secretary clinton is honest and trust worthy. if the general election were held today, she would beat all the top gop contenders. by the way, no one has questioned what the impact of

jeb's second grandchild means for his candidacy. vice president joe biden, senator elizabeth warren, andrew cuomo or governor martin o'malley. the vice president is the only one of them not polling in the single digits. so you got to ask, if not hilary, then who? >> that decision hasn't been made, for real. >> i have been preparing in terms of the thought work, the policy work and the groundwork necessary to offer a better direction forward for our country. >> is the presidency off the table here, governor? long-time people thought you were going to run for president? is hillary clinton in that seat? >> i'm sorry, i'm losing you. we're having difficulty. >> i'm not running for president.

and i plan to serve out my term. >> i just want to say personally having known chelsea as a teen in the white house, i'm happy for her and mark. our panel is back. that didn't belong there. let's talk about this. is hillary clinton going to run now that she's going to be a grandmother? >> can hillary clinton have it all? i mean that's just a preposterous question. of course, she can be a grandmother and a presidential candidate. we have had grandparents in the white house before. i assume we will again. >> so you think people can balance both roles? >> i do. i don't know what the time intensive grandmothers people are expecting of her. i do think if anything truthfully i don't think this will have any influence on whether she runs or her campaign. it helps to have a cute kid around. i think that will be a plus. >> it's interesting that you should mention that because some

are suggesting that this will be a fabulous prop for the campaign to have a newborn baby. that's how ridiculous the speculation has gotten. >> it's good to have of a kid around. i'm sure there will be great photo ops kissing the baby and going tod daycare i guess. >> she can pick up her own grandchild instead of picking up b babies. >> those clintons are smart. let's talk about joe biden. joe the biden, as we like to call him. he's the only contender with foreign policy experience. the negatives, some gaffes, some comments here and there. he also doesn't project this kind of this is fresh, this is new, this is different. he's a white guy.

>> we have to be talking about the entire list except for elizabeth warren is white men. hillary clinton really makes history if she wins. it would create excitement in the feminist base for sure. and i think the women that were activated and excited about her candidacy, the two sooik ls ago would be excited if she were to run in 2016. this is pure sexism talking about whether being a grandmother would get in the way. >> o'malley has beefed up his resume. he has a pretty good record in terms of progressive caught in the minimum wage in maryland. he doesn't have the kind of name recognition. i think we can show you in a poll in the state of maryland, he is not doing so well in a matchup against hillary clinton. she actually outpolls him by pretty dramatic numbers.

72%. these are maryland residents. let's see, o'malley, 6. >> if he were to rename himself, he might do better in these polls. i think there's space for martin o'm o'malley. there needs to be someone to the left of clinton. there will be a lot of progressives hoping for the left of clinton. if but among the group of democrats who have embraced income inequality and pushing for progressive policy, they are going to want someone to go in the field and say, listen, even while we supported hilary, we have to keep our eye on the ball. >> the thing that strikes me too when you look at o'malley staking out a progressive tone,

it's governor khocuomo who has backed off. he's upset progressives, the minimum wage, there was one increase, but new york city can't make another increase. he's done some things on campaign finance that things were disappointed about. he's the one person who thought was to be the other progressive option, but i think he's gotten himself in trouble. >> or maybe he didn't intend to be in the presidential role in the first place. i think he's just destined to disappointed. we have waited for fathers for decades. it's not going to happen. it will just move along. someone asked where mario cuomo. the whole thing is we're really just talking about who is ready to step in if hillary clinton is not running? that's really all we're talking about. there's nobody who is a serious contend erp of the notion of martin o'malley lighting a spark. this governor of maryland firing up the country. >> it's jeb bush.

>> maybe elizabeth warren is the one person who could fire up the left even with a hillary clinton in the race. but really it just seems like they are picking over crumbs now. >> that's why we're having this conversation. so let's pick up on that point. elizabeth warren, that's the dark horse. even though she said she's not running, let's see, she has a book coming out. that just happens to go to big cities with big donors. they are not early states, but they have big donors. doesn't hurt to get her brand out there and for her to meet more people. >> that book is also the kwint sensual i'm running for president book. it's her on the cover looking tough. she's been the most absolute about saying that she's not running, that she's going to serve out her term. if people see an opening and think there's a possibility to become president of the united states, 9 times out of 10 they

take it. that said, it would actually be an obama-like feat for her to take on clinton, the democratic machine that's already behind her and to really stage kind of that insurgent campaign. i wouldn't bet money on it, but certainly it would be fun to watch. >> let's ask this question though. what if hillary clinton doesn't run and you have elizabeth warren, would the clinton machine, this infrastructure in waiting, would they get behind whoever it is if it's not hillary clinton? >> they would split up. there's no obvious likely person o fill that role. i was at this same point in 2006 saying there's nobody possible to take on hillary clinton. so take this with a grain of salt. we're beyond that now. the only thing that can stop her is her own decision not to. her operatives will parcel

themselves out among the various joe biden. i think i will take a long vacation. >> absolutely. >> do you want to weigh in? >> elizabeth warren could come in and be excite iing. i think she has that style that we liked in obama that excites the base. saving social security being a big issue. but she doesn't have the infrastructure. so i don't. -- she's not going to run. those two things make me think that hillary clinton -- >> let's be honest. it doesn't matter if they say they are not going to run. there's always a way out. i have been drafted, the people want me. plenty of them. >> the real question is she a grandmother? then she's out. >> i believe she's a mother. we have not confirmed the sec d second. >> she's also an american. >> you can read about it in her

book. the panel will be back with me. still ahead, cattle and snipers. not exactly what you'd expect to find on a nevada ranch. the story of clive and bundy in a dangerous confrontation that's not over yet. that's coming up. ameriprise asked people a simple question: can you keep your lifestyle in retirement? i don't want to think about the alternative. i don't even know how to answer that. i mean, no one knows how long their money is going to last. i try not to worry, but you worry. what happens when your paychecks stop? because everyone has retirement questions. ameriprise created the exclusive confident retirement approach. to get the real answers you need. start building your confident retirement today. reckless seeding. a backyard invasion. enter homeowner, and ortho weed b gon max. kills weeds without harming innocent lawns.

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don't forget you can always disrupt the conversation all week long. find us on facebook or tweet us. coming up, while fox news and conservative pundits champion a renegade rancher, harry reid is calling it domestic terrorism. that's next. these are folks that live in nevada. these are hard working americans so they disagree and the government goes out and pulls guns and harry reid are calling them terrorists. >> the fact he's broken laws and

not paying taxes. put him aside, the people showing up are there to support him. they are not breaking laws as far as we know. this is mike. his long race day starts with back pain...

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600 people came in armed. they had practice, they had maneuvered, they knew what they were doing. they set up snipers in strategic locations with sniper rifles. they had assault weapons. if there were ever an example of people who were terrorist wannab wannabes, these are the guys. >> that was harry reid's assessment of the showdown earlier this week between armed antigovernment extremists, armed militia and clive and bundy, a rancher who hasn't paid grazing fees in over 20 years.

while neighboring ranchers have been paying their fees, he said that he doesn't recognize the united states government as even exist i existing. he has however, said he recognizes the government of the state of nevada. some are calling him a hero celebrating the standoff as a win and questioning where to take the movement next. others call him a free loader who won't accept the judgments against him. the behavior of mr. bundy and the armed militia protecting him resembles that of what the fbi calls sovereign citizens. people who believe they don't have to follow most tax and criminal laws. the fbi labeled them a domestic terror movement and the frightening truth and the home grown extremists is not new. but what we haven't seen is the near manufacturing of a potentially violent standoff like this powered by social media organizing and supports

from americans from prosperity, media figures and a major cable network. all of them working together to portray bundy as a modern day hero. >> the most powerful democrat in congress has officially stepped way over the line when it comes to his rhetoric about clive and bundy. if there was anything about domestic terrorism, it was perpetuated by the government. >> these cattle ate federal grass and you didn't pay for it and they might have pooped on federal property. is that worth federal agents. >> these are hard working americans so they disagree. >> the bigger implication, it's a symbol of a government more inclined to target. >> we're back with our panel and joined by mark potac, senior fellow. i want to start with mark. let's be very clear. clive and bundy is a dead beat. he's not paid grazing fees in 20

years. that's a fact. the question i have for you is what are the parallels between bundy and the sovereign citizen movement. that's one of the types of groups that you track. and one of the things we have seen over the last week or so is beyond clive himself, you have all kinds of different right wing extremist groups coming in to help him basically. >> well, it's certainly true. there are enormous numbers of groups and individuals coming in. i wouldn't call him a sovereign citizen. they leave in a convoluted ideology, which sovereign citizens are not susceptible to tax laws from the federal government. bundy seems to be coming more from is the county supremacy movement when originates in racist groups. it's the idea that the highest level of legitimate law

enforcement is the county sheriff. that certainly seems to be true. i'm sure there are sovereign citizen who is are there who have come as a part of the militiamen who have come to defend bundy and his staeling of a million dollars from the rest of us. >> and i want to play something for you. just so we can get a feel of who these folks are. >> we were actually strategizing to put the women at the front. if they are going to start shooting, it's going to be women that will be televised across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers. >> right, so these big, tough g guys with their big, tough kbuns are going to hide behind the women and let them get shot. >> what that immediately brings to me is the standoff of the '90s. i think that for these groups of people, those things loom large. what they are experiencing is another repeat of that.

so women and children were at the forefront. women and children were near the ammunition and women and children, if their intention is to make a stand, they want to do the same. chst troubling to me about all of this is the extent to which, a, the federal government backed down after people drew guns and threatened federal agents. >> let's talk about that for a second. some are praising the government because they intentionally didn't want to end up getting into an armed conflict with these people. >> i don't want an armed conflict either. people shooting guns is not an outcome that should happen. on the same token, it's troubling that you have a group of people who are not going to obey federal laws and are enforcing that decision with guns. it makes it sound like we're living in somalia and not the united states of america. one more thing. back in the 1980s in philadelphia there was an

organize called move that also stockpiled weapons, also threaten state agents. the city of philadelphia bombed them. i have u a hard time believing that if bundy were a native american rancher taking back his land we would have this defense of him from the federal government. >> even to that point, we have an imagine of what the scene looked like between the armed law enforcement and you had the armed folks defending bundy. do we have an image of that? so to that point, if that sniper was an african-american or just a brown person, would fox news certainly not be jumping to that guy's rescue, defending his rights? >> absolutely not. he's already broken the law by not paying the very low dues he's required to pay. particularly on the right, they

are talking about undocumented immigrants break the law and not having respect for the rule of law. if the people were brown like you said, would we be having the same reaction? i pause it, no, we would not be. >> one of the things you have written about is that to some degree, some of the national gop has backed off after the first started, but of fox news and others and the governor of the state really digging in. does that represent a difference in terms of this movement being e legitimized? >> it certainly does. that's the crucial difference. people have said this means the militia movement is back. it's not. it exploded when the economy collapsed and obama was elected. it's been declining now as these things always do when people aren't so angry. the economy gets better, that's all improve iing.

militias will fade away when people realize it's unnecessary and rather stupid. what's different here is you have dean helder, calling these people patriots. now you can say whether harry reid should be calling them terrorists. the united states smart should not be calling these people patriots. the governor of november is not criticizing bundy but the response, the modern version of thugs and if anything they have showed restraint and i actually think it was tactically a good move. that's what they want. let it all quiet down and pick up bundy when he's on the way to the feed store in a couple months and take care of it quietly. . >> i want to follow up on something that dana said. you talk about how in 2013 the actual number of hate groups decreased, but one of the things you cited in that was that some of the ideas have been coopted

by mainstream politicians, which i thought in conjunction the point that dana was making was an interesting way to look at this. >> it's absolutely true. look at some of the laws that are being proposed or even passed around the country. all kinds of nullification laws. the federal government can't tell us to do this, cannot regulate our weapons. if a federal agent comes to our state, he will not be allowed to enfo enforce the law without the permission of a county sheriff. so those things are right out of the militia play book. one thing i don't agree with is the militia groups are fading aw away. they have diminished, about 20% last year. but we're still talking about historically high levels of these groups. there are more of them even than in the mid-'90s so we're really going through a second wave of all this. >> i want to ask you about that. you wrote today, today is also the anniversary of oklahoma city and you wrote about sort of how

things have changed since then in terms of law enforcement recognizing and since 2011 law enforcement recognizing that these groups are out there. this is something we need to pay attention o to and be monitoring. as you point out in your piece, there was a report in 2009 that the department of homeland security did that actually talked about this, but right wing folks got flipped out and the report kind of just went away. it actually warned us about some of these things. >> it didn't just go away on its own accord. the drudge report and all that withdrew the report, apologized for the report and essentially sentured its authors. the report, as a matter of fact, was perfectly sober, completely accurate and born out by future events. but what's happened now as a result of that is that the whole

nonislamic analysis unit inside dhs has fallen apart. it's down to one person. everybody who was involved earlier has left. and as a result intelligence that might be helpful, that might conceivably have unearthed some kind of clue as to the kansas city area shootout has fallen apart. i think we're in a worse place as a result. >> we have to leave it there. thank you to the panel for your time today. still ahead, putin won't back down and president obama faces criticism from the right over his handling of ukraine. what options does he have? that's coming up. it starts with little things. tiny changes in the brain. little things, anyone can do. it steals your memories. your independence. insures support. a breakthrough. and sooner than you'd like... ...sooner than you think. ...you die from alzheimer's disease.

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by last night an agreement just reached a day before between diplomats between russia and the european union and secretary of state john kerry had already collapsed. >> we agreed today that all illegal armed groups must be disarmed. that all illegally seized buildings must be returned to their legitimate owners. and all illegally occupied streets, squares and other

public places in ukrainian cities and towns must be vacated. >> today russian militants are refusing to vacate the buildings they currently occupy in eastern ukraine despite calls from secretary kerry urging full and immediate compliance. vladimir putin has made it clear he has no plans to disarm. leading to they may include russian forces. thp comes as report hs morning say the united states has announced plans for military exercises in poland and astonia to reassure nato. conservatives are piling on the president, accusing him of projecting weakness on the world stage in his handling of foreign policy. i want to bring in washington editor at large of the atlantic steve klemclemons. steve, what option does the president really have on the table right now? what could he be doing that he's

not doing? >> right now, he's doing exactly the right thing in my view. it's taking him awhile to get there, but the game is not just about ukraine crane but a broad relationship in countries and situations. there's a fantastic piece by peter baker saying the white house is beginning to get serious about a containment light strategy going back to the days of george kennen. obama realizes he's not going to have a reasonable good relationship with putin pr some time. you can't write off russia. you have to have way os confront russia and not recklessly confront russia. when it comes down to what's happening inside ukraine, john kerry's efforts were heroic. he tried to put everything together. vladimir putin is on a roll. and he is right now trying to keep ukraine in a vice. and basically flaunting his independence to the rest of the

world that they can't do anything to them. right now, i think finally the white house is getting serious about a broader strategy in which they find leverage points against putin. >> i have some sound from john mccain, who really passes up no opportunity to take a shot at the president when it comes to foreign policy. let's go ahead and play that. >> the only thing that vladimir putin understands is strength and there has been the weakest response imaginable, sanctioning a few people. the fact that the united states will not give defensive weapons to ukraine including body armor, night goggles, jet fuel, spare parts, we will not even give that in fear of provoking vladimir putin only encourages vladimir putin. >> to what john mccain just said and steve just said, it strikes

me that the white house is trying to have a broader picture and it's not just about putin. there are other regional players that need to have reassurances and that can be potential allies and concerns that ukraine as it currently stands can't handle very much. >> this is true. i mean, certainly john mccain is fair to make a point that the initial round of sanctions didn't do a whole lot. indeed they weren't e designed to do a whole lot. that's a fair point. but to take this further, okay, well what should this president really be doing? is john mccain advocating a land war with russia? there's nothing that this president could do or any other president over the last 70 years to do to stop russia from doing what it is doing now to a neighbor. we just hadn't seen this kind of lack of restraint before. so i think what's happened now is all that can happen and

should putin go further, they do have really disabling sanctions that can be put in place. i mean i'm sorry but giving them some night goggles is probably not going to suddenly make ukraine equal to the might of russ russia. >> one of the concerns has been we could do that, but who is there to then train the ukrainian forces and are the ukrainian forces in a position to use those materials? >> there's no real indication that taking the steps the president should take would actually do anything and might provoke something. and what american presidents for the last 70 years have correctly realized is you don't mement waa shooting war in the middle of europe. especially not with russia. so i think steve was right to draw a comparison to the containment strategy. this isn't the first time we have had this sort of situation.

the approach of the west was to look for ways to contain it there. and to avoid any broader conflict. >> so steve, last words in 30 seconds, what should we expect out of vice president joe biden's visit? >> it will be a lot like the words of kennedy going to berlin. he's going to stand strong, say we're all ukrainians now, that we're look iing forward to russ being a responsible international stakeholder and d demonstrating it can be, but we're with the people of ukraine. >> thank you to steve, dana and jah mel. that does it for me. . thanks for joining us. i will see you back here tomorrow at 4:00 eastern. but before that, be sure to catch me in the morning. i'll be a guest on melissa's show at 10:00 a.m. have a great night.

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