"morning joe." stick around, it's time for luke and "the daily rundown." thank you for your patience. good-bye. planetary politics. it's earth kay and the keystone clash embodies all the attention between our energy needs and environmental efforts. we'll talk about that and much more with a rare interview with the president's energy secretary. as vice president biden puts the finishing touches on some in-person pressure on putin in ukraine, we'll talk to the top republican who is literally just landing from a visit to the country's unsteady eastern border. back in washington, all eyes on the supreme court for a case about an ohio congressman who said political ads shouldn't be able to lie. how about that. good morning from washington, it is tuesday, april 22nd, 2014. i'm luke russert in for the great chuck todd who's on his way to asia for the president's trip. right now vice president joe biden is wrapping up a trip at

ukraine aimed at reassuring the country's leaders. biden said time is running out for russia to pull back its military from ukraine's borders and to call on pro-russian separatists to leave occupied buildings in eastern ukraine. >> we call on russia to stop supporting men hiding behind masks in unmarked uniforms sewing unrest in eastern ukraine. and we have been clear that more provocative behavior by russia will lead to more costs and to greater isolation. now it's time for russia to stop talking and start acting. act on the commitments that they made. >> biden, who said he signed his hotel guest book this morning, quote, ukraine united, also said the u.s. will never recognize russia's occupation of crimea. >> no nation has the right to

simply grab land from another nation. no nation has that right. and we will never recognize russia's illegal occupation of crimea. no nation should threaten its neighbors by massing troops along the border. we call on russia to pull back these forces. >> biden announced the white house is putting together a $50 million package of new economic assistance for ukraine and urged ukrainian leaders to fight the cancer of corruption. but many u.s. lawmakers say that's not good enough and are calling for sectoral sanctions. here's senator john mccain this morning. >> if the vice president is saying if they continue to do this, what will we do? he has gone into crimea and what has he paid for.

11 people sanctioned and one bank. we keep threatening and threatening and threatening. for us to say we wouldn't give them defensive weapons and mres, which they are even afraid to fly in on u.s. aircraft, that we have to send in on trucks, i mean that staggers my imagination. >> russia's prime minister told the parliament that he is working to minimize the consequences of u.s. sanctions and said the talk of europe importing gas from the united states is a bluff. nbc's jim maceda is live in donetsk, ukraine. jim, what's the latest on the ground there? there were skirmishes over the weekend. that easter truce did not amount to much. what's the latest on the ground and are folks fearing any u.s. sanctions that are out there? >> reporter: well, hi there. listen, the latest on the ground is the same as it was yesterday really. these are very critical days because nothing is happening on the ground. clearly vice president biden's

trip and message to russia is just that. as you said, he said stop talking and start acting. it couldn't have been more than a symbolic show of force -- i should say a symbolic show of support for kiev over a 24-hour full business day, but he did hit a lot of notes. you mentioned, of course, the package. it's not a substantial package, but it is a very tough message to russia. he didn't mince his words. the ukrainians are listening very carefully to what biden was saying today. when he told russia to stop talking and start acting, that resonated here. now, this is a post-geneva accord phase. he said it is not open-ended and he made it clear that russia will face further sanctions if it doesn't de-escalate. but in terms of reaction here, people are going to continue going about their business and sometimes it's hard to believe

that donetsk is close to war or there's even a conflict until you get into those separatist areas. and you have to watch now and see what the reaction is from the people inside those areas. back to you. >> nbc's jim maceda, thank you so much. republican congressman ed royce of california chairs the house foreign affairs committee and right now he's leading a bipartisan congressional delegation in ukraine. he literally just landed from a visit to the country's eastern border with russia and joins us from the phone from kiev. congressman royce, thank you so much for being on the program. i want to ask you right off the bat, what were your initial observations on the eastern part of ukraine? is it a country under occupation? >> what surprised me in our discussions with people in every ethnic community there and in several religious -- among the religious minorities that we talked to as well was the anticipation of the election on

may 25th. we saw no evidence of attempts to stop that election. in fact we saw full support of the government in ukraine by the minority groups we talked to as well as by the russian-speaking population in the area. we talked to political leadership but also representatives of civil society. and frankly, where we were, which is a thoroughly russian-speaking region, they very much resented what they felt were soviet -- i should say russian special forces that had been sort of brought into eastern ukraine. they didn't see much indication of support other than by a fringe for this type of activity on the part of the russian

forces operating in the east. and so i think that election is going to see a high turnout with a great deal of support for a new government in ukraine. >> so from your reading of the situation on the ground, do you feel then that the general population is not being necessarily receptive to that russian propaganda that has been spewed out across the eastern area there? they are supportive of the central government in kiev? >> when i raised with the russian-speaking population these stories, they smile and say that's just propaganda, it is not true. what is on the russian-speakirussian-speaking stations that is being broadcast in from moscow, they say that it is not true. that the problems are created by special forces, russian special forces on the ground and so they intend to go to the polls and

elect their representatives and they support independence for ukraine. they're very vocal about it. >> and you have been supportive of tougher sanctions. obviously the vice president is in ukraine today. how much tougher can the sanctions be, considering europe is so dependent upon russian energy? >> well, it's going to depend upon the next steps that russia takes. clearly in the agreement that russia has concurred with in geneva, what they're supposed to do now is ratchet down the tensions. obviously if russian troops were to come over the border, regular army, the result of that would be international isolation for russia, the types of sanctions that would frankly collapse their stock market, destroy their currency. i think that is understood. i think what the vice president is saying is that russia has now

agreed to a deal, since we haven't seen enforcement, we're going to start ratcheting up the pressure in order to make certain that we see some results from moscow. >> chairman ed royce of the house foreign affairs committee, thank you so much for joining us. stay safe. >> thank you. let's turn now to some other developing headlines this morning. u.s. counterterrorism officials say air strikes in yemen have killed more than 60 al qaeda militants. according to richard engle, the strikes were row tetaliation af al qaeda video embarrassed the government. it was part of a sustained campaign against al qaeda by the yemeni government. the drone strike was reportedly backed by the u.s. the rash of violence let's turn to the united states, in chicago over the weekend that left at least nine people dead and another 35 wounded has prompted the creation of a new unit aimed to reduce the city's violent crime. the violent crime section

includes 16 prosecutors who will focus solely on how federal statutes can be used to go after violence. on monday, chicago mayor rahm emanuel called on the city's residents to stand up for safety. >> every child in the city of chicago deserves a childhood. every child deserves to hear laughter. any child where that laughter has been replaced by the familiarity of gun violence has had their childhood taken from them. and we as adults have not done our job. >> mayor emanuel acknowledged warm weather played a role in the spike in shootings but said values are not about seasons, they're about right and wrong. and the justice department is broughtening the criteria it uses to evaluate clemency for certain federal prisoners. on monday attorney general eric holder announced that the new criteria is aimed at inmates serving time for nonviolent drug offenses to help reduce the federal prison population.

>> this new and improved approach will make the criteria for clemency recommendation more expansive. this will allow the department of justice and the president to consider requests from a larger field of eligible individuals. >> the announcement is part of the obama administration's ongoing push to re-evaluate sentences for drug crimes imposed under old federal guidelines. live pictures here of the supreme court where we're watching developing news this morning. a question that goes to the very root of politics in this country. do candidates have the right to lie about their opponents? we got a preview of the arguments that are about to get under way. and it's earth day. the energy secretary will be here next. first, a look ahead at today's planner. president obama heads off on an eight-day trip to asia, but first, he'll stop in washington state to tour the site of the oso mudslide, a horrific event that happened there. the president will visit with victims' families, first

responders and recovery workers. you're watching "the daily rundown," only on msnbc. the performance review.

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four years after a cap in trade will died in congress, the president is running out of time on an issue he once considered central to his legacy. why environmentalists had a short-term victory with the delay of the keystone pipeline efforts for any sort of grand bargain on climate change have been repeatedly blocked in washington where deep divisions exist in congress. even the democratic party's relationship with the environmental movement is complicated at best and the president's ability to act has not always matched his rhetoric. >> the debate is settled. climate change is a fact and when our children's children

look us in the eye and ask if we did all we could to leave them a safer, more stable world with new sources of energy, i want us to be able to say, yes, we did. >> yesterday the president issued an earth day proclamation saying, quote, the overwhelming judgment of science tells us that climate change is altering our planet in ways that will have profound impacts on all of human kind. this month united nations intergovernmental panel on climate change says the u.s. needs to pass climate change law by the end of the decade to prevent the most catastrophic effects of global warming. the report also cites a world bank estimate which shows poor countries need as much as $100 billion to try to offset the effects of climate change. since 2010 the obama administration has spent $2.5 billion a year. hamstrung by congress the president is pushing an all of the above energy vat gee and depending on executive actions and new agency regulations to cut emissions. the environmental protection agency is draft a regulation.

ernest moniz joins me now. mr. secretary, thank you so much for being on the program. >> pleasure, luke. >> i want to talk to you a little bit about cap in trade. obviously the u.n. said there needs to be a carbon tax by the u.s. by the end of the decade and it's something that's faced a lot of resistance from the democratic party in congress. i want to read a quote from 2009 after nancy pelosi passed this through the house, the u.s. senate, mary landrieu said moderates are urging the white house to give up on any effort to pass a cap in trade bill. i am communicating that in every way i know how. one of at least a half dozen democrats who have told the white house or their own leaders it's time to jetson the centerpiece of their party's plan to curb global warming. how can you have a significant impact on trying to bring down global warming when so many in your own party oppose it? >> earth day brings us back into

focus on the risks of climate change and what we can do about it. the president has said that while we would love to work with congress on legislation to have a comprehensive approach to climate change, the president has directed all of us through his climate action plan to do what we can do using existing authorities. and that is quite extensive. >> but it's fair to say that you run into a roadblock with members of your own party in congress regarding things like climate change and cap in trade? >> yes, but again there are many ways to address climate change. cap in trade is one approach. there are others, such as what we are doing through some regulatory approaches, you already mentioned the rules on coal emissions, both new and existing plants. the department of energy, we are promulgating very aggressively new energy efficiency standards that will have major impact over the next years, including up to,

say, 2030. we are advancing the technology advances that lower the cost of low carbon technologies. that will speed their introduction. as we are seeing exponential growth in the employment of renewables, l.e.d. lighting and other kinds of clean technologies. >> it's sort of ground zero for environmentalists would be the issue of the keystone pipeline, delayed once again by the obama administration. a lot of vulnerable red state democrats were very happy for that delay because it allowed them to rail against the white house and create some daylight between the two factions. why was the keystone pipeline delayed again? >> well, as was stated by the department of state, who has the responsibility, secretary kerry has the responsibility for making the recommendation on a national interest criterion for the pipeline. as was stated, we are in the process of generating comments, for example, at the department of energy. but with the judicial decision in the state of nebraska, we

actually don't know what the project is. we don't know where the pipe will be going. and so this process will be carried out until we have a better idea of what the project is. >> i want to ask you a question about fracking and it's something that russell gold, a journalist who wrote the book on fracking said it's made us the envy of the world. the u.s. is energy independent if you consider the amount of oil and natural gas we could get from our own country. in regards to natural gas, which has been part of the president's all of the above strategy and something you've been a big proponent of as well, there's a question of whether or not the extraction methods can be harmful. a quote said all this keep shale gas could hinder the development of carbon free sources like solar, wind and nuclear. one study from m.i.t. suggested that the natural gas boom could lead to higher u.s. greenhouse gas emissions by midcentury if it stunts the growth of renewable energy. is there a fear and do you agree

that we perhaps are increasing our dependence on fossil-burning fuels by going forward with fracking? >> well, first of all, the natural gas revolution that we have had, we really should put in the context, number one, of having an enormous economic boost in this country. we have seen 100 to $150 billion invested in new manufacturing in this country because of the availability of low to moderate cost gas. we have seen at least in most of the country consumer bills reduced. we have also seen the abundance of natural gas lead to a reduction in our co2 emissions. now the trick is we have to do that while continuing to minimize the environmental footprint of production. that is one of the things that we are focusing on, along with other agencies, department of energy, department of interior, epa, so we are advancing that

and we believe that each of the environmental impacts is manageable, but we have to manage them. we have to make sure best practices are employed and that new technologies are employed to capture methane, to recycle water use, to move towards natural gas engines replacing diesels for air quality. so there are many steps we need to take and we are working with industry to do that. just recently, i'll just add, that at the department of energy my advisory board produced a report, for example, on how we can move forward on better transparency in terms of what the fracking fluids are. >> and lastly, i just want to ask you a quick question. we often hear about how catastrophic climate change will be, yet it doesn't seem that americans have been asked to sacrifice personally at all with the exception of perhaps turn off your lights, change your light bulbs and inflate the tires in your car. will there come a point where the government will ask americans to sacrifice and

perhaps suffer to mitigate the effects of climate change? >> well, first of all, i think if you look at our, say, macro economy, there's a tremendous amount that we can do and we are advancing it without what i would call tremendous pain. for example, the issues that you mentioned are part of a larger energy efficiency agenda that is absolutely critical to addressing climate change. but ultimately it saves money for the consumer and it minimizes emissions. efficiency in fact is probably the point of the spear in terms of what we can do. i don't consider that to be asking the public to feel pain. quite the contrary, it's a very positive move forward. so i think we need to keep in mind the president's commitment to all of the above. we are looking at making the investments and we are making the investments that all of our

fuel sources will have a role in a future very low carbon economy. >> secretary moniz, thank you so much for joining us. we appreciate it today on earth day. take care. >> thank you. appreciate it. up next, your tdr primary primer. the votes in may that could shift the balance of power. first the trivia question. which was the last time both idaho and montana voted for the democrat in a presidential election? the first person to tweet the correct answer to @dailyrundown will get an on-air shoutout. the answer and more coming up on "the daily rundown." that's next. why relocating manufacturingpany to upstate new york? i tell people it's for the climate. the conditions in new york state are great for business. new york is ranked #2 in the nation for new private sector job creation. and now it's even better because they've introduced startup new york - dozens of tax-free zones where businesses pay no taxes for ten years.

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carolina and ohio. the marquee contest is in the tar heel state. republican backed by the u.s. chamber of commerce has the advantage in a crowded eight-way primary. tea party groups are divided between greg brannon and mark harris. tillis has the upper hand but a runoff could make things much more interesting for the north carolina state house speaker. a week later two more states, nebraska and west virginia go to the polls and on may 20th, half a dozen states have primaries in what we're calling 2014's super tuesday. on may 27th, a texas runoff pitts ralph hall against tea party challenger john ratcliff. nbc news senior political editor mark murray is here and he joins us now. it seems that the tea party groups, they haven't had the same amount of power this time around as they did in 2010 and even on the presidential level as they did in 2012. >> right now the juice seems to

be on the establishment side, luke. if you were to ask me two or three months ago i would have told you that the tea party folks were the ones who looked to be strong. but just look around the map. north carolina, tom tillis seems to have the edge. of course once you get to a runoff, all bets are off. in kentucky, mitch mcdonneconne seems to have the edge over matt bevin. and in georgia, the two establishment folks, david purdue and jack kingston seem to be out in front of paul brown as well as phil gingry. so much can change but this establishment/tea party race, you've got to say the establishment has a bit of an edge. >> so the empire is striking back. why? where does it come from? >> a lot of people often say they're just fighting back. in a lot of respects, the big overarching story of this entire establishment versus tea party is the tea party has won the

ideological debate. if you are an establishment republican on issue after issue after issue, you're as conservative as you can be. in a lot of respects the tea party has been co-opted inside the republican party. but you're seeing the chamber of commerce, groups like karl rove's american crossroads go really heavily in these contests and are helping on the money front. >> making their presence known. one race which is fascinating is ralph hall, the oldest sitting member in the house, will -- wants to be the last world war ii veteran in congress facing a very difficult runoff against before radcliff down there in texas. what do we know about that? >> the problem is that ralph hall needed to get past the runoff and he had -- now there's going to be a runoff and that shows if you are someone who you want to go against ralph hall, it's going to be hard to really win this contest. in some ways this has more to do with his age than ideology, but certainly republican outside

groups, conservative groups are trying to find anything they can to be able to say, aha, my guide ended up winning. >> ratcliff has been really hammering him on the age. mark murray, thank you for joining us. let's go now to the first number of your tuesday tdr data bank. 694. that's the number of caucuses that existed at the end of the last congress. national journal reports there are more caucuses than there are members of congress, including things like the bourbon caucus, the hockey caucus, there's a caucus for you. you name it. that number skyrocketed in recent years. in 1993, there were just over 100. national journal reports average house members belong to 34 caucuses while senators belong to about 18. just filling up the yearbook with all those clubs. this is it, folks. voting begins for the final four of our tdr contract challenge. two kennedys made it this far. today ben franklin faces off against ted kennedy and tomorrow is bobby kennedy against hillary clinton.

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siemens. answers. most peaople would argue tht political campaigns typically stretch the truth about their opponents. shocker. but what is an outright lie? is the constitutional right to free speech still let you say what you want? today the supreme court is hearing oral arguments to look at whether victims of false statements can sue, a first step to potentially making it illegal to lie about a political candidate. this case has its roots in the 2010 re-election campaign of an ohio democrat, an anti-abortion group wanted to put up billboards that said his vote in favor of the affordable care act was a vote to support abortion. he filed a complaint under ohio law that makes it illegal to make intentionally false claims during a political campaign. that stopped the billboards, although the group still ran

radio ads saying the same thing. >> we will not be silenced or intimidated. driehaus voted for taxpayer funding of abortion, and that vote has consequences. >> drieha uchtus said the ads w false. he claimed the susan b. anthony list had violated ohio law which reads no person during the course of any campaign shall make a false statement concerning the voting record of a candidate or public official. it's similar to laws in 15 oar states which make it a crime for someone to put out a statement they know isn't drew. he withdrew the complaint after he lost the race but susan b. anthony list said the whole episode had a chilling effect on their right to free speech. the group filed suit claiming the law is unconstitutional and is in court today arguing that the challenge should be allowed to go forward. pete williams is following all of this for us outside the supreme court. pete, explain to us what's at stake here.

could we see the end of lying in politics? >> reporter: not today. what's at stake really is whether they can sue, that's the question. if they win here, they can go back to the lower courts and then attack the constitutionality of this law. interesting thing here, the ohio attorney general's office is defending the state law, even though the attorney general himself, mike dewine, thinks it's a bad idea and opposes the law, so he's filed a brief on both sides. >> another case we're keeping an eye on is that brought up by a service that essentially rebroadcasts network tv shows and things that are taken from free public air waves. there's a suit brought up by television companies that nbc is a part of that says that that is in fact not okay. they should have to pay the broadcast fees just like satellite and cable providers. >> reporter: right. nbc news is one of those networks that's suing ario. the question is whether ario, which allows you to watch live television or over the air shows, whether that violates

federal copyright laws. when cable companies take signals off the air and put them on their systems, they pay the networks for that and the networks say aereo should too. aereo says this is no different than your own antenna and digital recorder, that those things are just located remotely and functionally there's no difference so they ought to be able to do it. there's some big money at stake. the future of aereo and if it wins it could undercut the justification for the networks getting billions of dollars in the retransmission fees that they're paid by the cable and satellite companies. >> and it's the beginning of the end possibly for bundling. pete williams, thank you so much. we appreciate it. turning back to the speech case, earlier i spoke to the head of the organization challenging ohio's false statement law. that would be the president of the susan b. anthony list. i started by asking her if it's a good idea to get an arbiter that can determine whether the statements in question are true

or not. >> the law empowers a state entity to do something that voters should have the ability to do, and that is to resolve a dispute in a political debate. the law goes further, it criminalizes that speech if that entity decides that you are right or wrong, it has the power to put you in jail and to fine you $5,000 for each incident of so-called lying. so we feel, as does the aclu, we're joined in this opinion, that the solution to speech you don't like is more speech, not to eliminate it. >> but in this case, you're saying that the public can decide whether or not something is true. is that really accurate is one side has 100 times more money than the other side and they can blanket the air waves? certainly the public will be more receptive to the ad they hear many times more than the little one. >> well, the question of campaign finance is a fair one and the question of how much money should be involved in elections. the court has certainly addressed that and will continue to address that.

but when you start shutting down speech by one side of a political debate and favoring another side of a political debate, you're getting very close to endangering free speech itself. in fact you are cutting off political speech, which is very rooted in the founding of our nation and it's why it's protected in the constitution. >> i want to go to the crux of your argument a little bit because i covered the health care debate quite closely and i remember following around bart stupak and the whole law essentially hinged on whether or not there would be protection for funds not to go towards abortion coverage. under the health care law, i want to read what the national journal writes. quote, if a plan does not offer abortion coverage or offers it under three exceptions then there is no conflict in federal subsidies may be applied plain and full. if it does include abortion coverage, subsidies may go toward the rest of the plan except those services. if a woman elects to have an abortion, she is fully

responsible. isn't it then a mistruth to say that the health care law funds abortion? >> indeed it is not. in fact congressman driehaus agreed with us. the catholic church, the bishops agreed with us, the entire pro life movement, john boehner. our position is unless there's an amendment to this bill, which has been tried six times in the last couple of sessions of congress, then there will be abortion funding under the health care law an in fact that turns out to be. with expanded afrtability subsidies, with the expanded medicaid on the state level, and with funds that subsidize the plans of congressmen and their staffs. it is definitely happening. how are we not paying for it? this is all one plan now. we're looking at a very different system. we're not looking at lots of different funders, lots of different insurers, we're looking at one health care system that you an i and everybody listening is

manufactured and now is overseeing. so when you see like kaiser -- the kaiser foundation has said that over a million new women will be on the rolls and will be receiving abortion coverage, who's paying for it? we're paying for it. >> but under the hyde amendment since 1976, federal funding for abortion has been explicitly outlawed. you saw that whole group of democrats that had to come along for the president to make sure that it was even more explicit with the description i just read to you. where is the direct evidence that there are federal funds for abortion services in the health care law? >> because women are getting coverage for abortion now. it's in it. or it wouldn't be happening. you know, planned parenthood said itself it was a symbolic gesture. this order was a symbolic gesture, don't anybody worry. now planned parenthood is helping sign everybody up for this plan. i don't think that -- i don't think that that they're easily duped and voters shouldn't be

easily duped. when you see there will be 115,000 new abortions per year under this health care plan and you see the expansion of the rolls of new women coming on, well, there's only one health care system under which all these abortions are being performed and you and i are footing the bill for that. >> a lot of people would question that, but we'll continue. i want to go back to the case here regarding defamation. pursuing this case, at what point could you foresee an area where defamation is no longer considered? is that if you continue to go down this avenue are you essentially getting rid of the ability for someone who claim defamation of character pby an d that's not true? >> no, ability to bring a civil suit against another person will remain. the defamation case is different from the supreme court case. the defamation case was finally dismissed. this case is our case against the law itself.

and its first amendment threat that it is and how it was used against us is the reason we are going to be in court today. >> and lastly, what do you expect to hear from the justices today? do you think they'll be favorable to your side? >> well, we're very hopeful. and that is because i don't think they would have taken up this case if they didn't think that there was a serious first amendment problem involved. there are 13 other states that have similar laws. ohio's is the most egregious. in our case it was applied most egregiously. i think they see there perhaps is a problem and perhaps we ought to be able to continue to make our case. they may decide on very narrow grounds and say, yes, you may pursue your case. they may decide on wider grounds, which is go ahead and say what they see wrong with the law itself and send it back and say do something about it, but we'll see. >> marjorie dannenfelser, president of susan b. anthony list, thanks for joining us. >> thank you. before a quick break, our tdr 50 soup of the day.

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back with the next number in today's data bank. 31 years. that was the last time an american man won the boston marathon until yesterday. he finished in two hours, 8 minutes and 37 seconds to take the top spot. he'll be live on andrea mitchell reports today at noon. great day for america, you don't want to miss that. trivia time, you have to go back 50 years to lyndon johnson's landslide to find the most recent time idaho and montana voted for the democrat in the presidential election. congratulations to today's winner, peter wesley. send your trivia suggestions to dailyrundown@msnbc.com. we'll be right back. or u lcative colitis is a daily game of "what if's". what if my abdominal pain and cramps come back?

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tdr 50 heads back to montana. you can see the beautiful river behind me, and water wars heat up in the seasonal outlook of the drought season. and right now nearly one half of the western part of the country are facing severe drought conditions or worse including huge parts of california and nevada and montana is free of drought conditions right now, but they have seen more than their fair share of problems in the past. in spring of 2001 and 2005 nearly 1 in 10 acres in montana was facing a severe drought, and about 9 billion of ground water are drawn in idaho everyday for agriculture, and 2 billion in montana and 90% of it for irrigation, but the experts warn that we should not take it for

granted and water scarcity is going to be a bigger issue when times come by, and they say that it is going to make our current fight over the keystone pipeline look silly by comparison. >> well, five years from now, we will be spending a lot of our time diplomatically and a lot of the work on dealing with water. we have a lot of opportunity, and we are blessed, but we can't take water for granted. >> joining me is amy harder, energy reporter for the "wall street journal," and amy, the west is experiencing the worst drought and some of the driest conditions in 12 years, but there is a huge population growth in places like colorado, arizona and nevada, and what is the legal status of fights between the states playing out in the court system over water rights. >> right. the way it works is that the droughts and the scarcity of water, the legal questions that may have been on the back burner for the last several decades have all of the sudden become legal problems, and you are seeing it play out in the states of idaho and montana, and in some situations, you are seeing

the compromise and collaboration, and in other places, lawsuits playing out for years as we are seeing between wyoming and montana going on seven years now, and so that the droughts which we will continue to see will only exacerbate the questions and turn them into problems. >> and the world stage now, it is catastrophic, and i spent a lot of time out there on the west coast for work, and seven week, it did not rain once. you are starting to see the america where things like gardens could become a real luxury. >> yes, and california and texas are really the ones at the front burner on this issue right now, and maybe idaho and montana could get there, and in the coming years, but in california, the governor has called to water your lawns less and take shorter showers, and it is getting a bit extreme, and depending upon how the seasons are going to go in the next couple of years, maybe it is going to be like that in other parts of the west as well. >> do you think that we could see maybe not our generation,

but the generation coming up where maybe grand kids of the people our age have these bitter battles to be physical confrontations over water in the united states or say in the court system? >> well, i think that going to the canadian ambassador's comment, i don't believe that the water wars will be like the keystone xl pipeline, because water is something that we take for granted. it is similar to electricity, and we only miss it when we don't have it, and we only notice that we don't have it when it is not available to us. so there is going to be legal challenges that will make a lot of the lawyers rich, and already making a lot of lawyers rich, i would say, but it is a slower fight than what we are seeing over the keystone pipeline where we hope that there is ultimately going to be a decision on the pipeline, but whereas with the water issues, there are never a day when president x can make a

decision, because it is going to play out continuously. >> thank you, amy harder from the "wall street journal" and wonderful energy reporter. if you live in l.a., get a rock garden is my advice. that is it for this edition of "the daily rundown." and we will join chris jansing next hour with congressman meeks n next hour. why relocating manufacturingpany to upstate new york? i tell people it's for the climate. the conditions in new york state are great for business. new york is ranked #2 in the nation for new private sector job creation. and now it's even better because they've introduced

startup new york - dozens of tax-free zones where businesses pay no taxes for ten years. you'll get a warm welcome in the new new york. see if your business qualifies at startupny.com

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so, it's no surprise to you that companies depend on today's xerox for services that simplify how work gets done. which is...pretty much what we've always stood for. with xerox, you're ready for real business. more bodies are pulled from the submerged ferry, and the skreeian president saying that the captain and crew actions were similar to murder. strong words. and president obama is heading to washington state this hour to meet with the victims and the first responders of the deadly mudslide before heading to asia. i'm richard lui in for chris jansing on this tuesday. right now we are watching the supreme court where the justices are hearing the arguments in two big cases this morning. the first has to do with campaign ads dominating the airwaves during election season. the justices will decide if the

candidates have a right to lie in the ads, and if they do, who gets to sue. and the other argument could have major implications for the way that you watch television a. company called aereo uses antennas to capture free broadcast tv and send it to the laptops and cell phone and some say it violates the copyright law, and if it doesn't, then it means more people watching tv through the streaming services. parent nbc is one of the companies that is oppose ing in aereo, the owner of msnbc. and so we will get an update with our correspondent pete williams on that. first this morning, vice president biden called on russia to stop talking and pull back from the borders. let's listen. >> no nation should threaten the neighbors by amassing troops on the border. we