rainb rainbows. ♪ big developments in the bridgegate investigation. >> a friend owed a friend. that's the honest truth. >> the new jersey legislative panel looking into the scandal has issued four new subpoenas in the case. >> none of these four are for governor christie. >> are we going forward or backward? >> you may remember michael drewniak who said, i could claw him, wildstein, and light him up in a socket. >> still to be here at 90, great things are made. >> hard to say this is politically deadly for governor christie but it's not the end. when you accept leadership, it's not a guarantee of sunshine and rainbows. stand up to the bully. those are the words of hoboken

dawn zimmer what she wrote to herself in details with troubles new jersey governor chris christie. in a letter to the state legislature this week, zimmer explains the reason she did not come forward last year when she says the lieutenant governor threatened to withhold sandy aid because she did not support a project allegations the governor has denied. in an attachment to that letter zimmer included the undated journal entries which she says are notes from a conversation with hoboken's attorney. quote, yes, this is illegal. i debated with joe mar ziti whether or not to go to the u.s. attorney. we decided that christie has friends throughout the u.s. attorney's office. not much chance of getting help from them and it could create a nightmare for us. a little scary to realize there's no war to turn. my best defense is to stand up to the bully, my beloved gov who wants to run for president. >> her beloved gov of course ran

the u.s. attorney's office in newark the one who is now investigating him before becoming the governor of the state. in her letter, zimmer said that she and other whistle-blowers need to be protected from chris christie. last week, christie proposed a bill that would require public officials to immediately report misconduct to the proper authorities or face a disorderly person's offense. zimmer said it could have, quote, a chilling effect on whistle-blowers like her. christie's chilly bill is just one recommendation from a tax-funded government report from the governor's office to conduct a review of christie's office. it is the same report that dismissed zimmer's charges as, quote, demonstratively false. joining me now is hunter walker. and political reporter for "the new york times" michael barber. michael let me start with you. the latest with dawn zimmer -- we're going to hunter first. sorry about that.

i think we have technical problems at the "the new york times." how much do you think dawn zimmer's latest journal entries move the needle on her allegations? >> not very much, because her original allegations which were that the christie administration threatened to withhold sandy aid from hoboken unless she approved a real estate project were also based on these undated journal entries. so that really does come down to a he said/she said situation. so this doesn't really change that very much. but there is some evidence bolstering her claims. >> you know, michael, i think we have your audio now -- >> yeah. >> -- good. in terms of the recommendations and the gibbs & dunn report, it's interesting, right? because this one provision that dawn zimmer has called into question that she thinks would have a chilling effect on

whistle-blowers, leakers whatever you want to call that. it's an interesting bit of christie logic, right? it's that we're going to acknowledge people with information that could reveal ethics lapses, but we're going to punish them if they don't come forward with it in a timely manner. it's sort of a -- i wouldn't say a double-edged sword but a secret shiv to be honest? >> well, dawn zimmer waited by my calculation about eight months to go to the proper authorities in new jersey and talk about these alleged acts of intimidation. i mean, it is an intriguing case on so many levels. she felt threatened. there's a governor with supreme power in new jersey much better than an average governor but the one person he does not appoint is the u.s. attorney who happens to be a democrat. so i actually think there's a

healthy debate to be had about whether dawn zimmer could have gone to the u.s. attorney in a more rapid manner? and i don't know if it's a bad idea to ask the public officials immediately divulge when something illegal has occurred? we actually sort of think about it as a baseline obligation of our elected officials. should it be a law with punishments? that's a more debatable issue, but she did wait eight months. >> well, you could argue, again, this is open to interpretation and analysis, right, if she truly felt bullied nowhere to turn except for the man who was actually bullying her that's reason to wait. but with the personal anguish that the mayor of hoboken was feeling as a result of all of this. hunter, i want to play a little sound from chris christie who was delivering a keynote at the annual chamber of commerce

dinner. >> this is not about politics for me. because i'm never running in this state again. i'm done. and i can muddle through the next couple of budgets and make do. and leave this mess for the next person. but that's been done too many times in this state. >> again, i will take -- there's a lot to talk about there, hunter. one, the idea that this governor is not running in this state again, true. but the fact that he may be done, i mean, i don't think chris christie's ambitions right now end at the bridge, as it were. this is someone who wants to use his time in office to be part of his resume for running for president, or at least has up until this point. >> absolutely. and one thing you saw in that speech he made last night, he was back to one of his favorite topics which is pension reform. >> right. and he argued there's a huge disaster on the horizon in new jersey. and it has nothing to do with his scandals, it's all about the

economy and the problems if they don't reform the pension system. we've seen him start to pivot back to one of his key talking points is i think a sign that christie's already starting to work to move to his next phase even if he fights the scandal. >> it's going to be a herculean effort. michael, the other thing is the mess that hunter just talked about. we talked about bridgegate, three, four investigations happening right now. the notion of leaving this mess for someone else to figure out. i would wonder what your sort of prognosis is that the effects of this particular administration will be felt in future administrations, in so far the setup within the state house, the oversight, the ethics. i mean, what is happening right now to chris christie is not just going to affect chris christie and his legacy. but potentially, other governors of the state. >> i mean, that's true. i mean, i'd argue that the

bigger mess for chris christie is political and electoral as we sit here on a day when hunter and i were aware of this this morning, talking about jeb bush and his presidential aspirations. so that's probably more of the sort of immediately frustrating problem for chris christie is that he's not entering that field as a pristine potential republican candidate. as a state issue, there are expenses involved in investigating these issues but there's also a broader issue of the credibility of the new jersey governor's office. kind of expectations for people who work in a state house. and one can make a compelling argument that that has been damaged. and anybody who comes after him has to grapple with a state that was supposed to be kind of turning a corner. in fact, in part because of chris christie's reputation as a krugs fighter. new jersey was starting to look like a state with long history of corrupted officials that was beginning to go away.

and then you have this scandal. so it kind of brings new jersey back into its stereotypical reputation as a state whose elected officials kind of can't help themselves. >> michael let me follow up. i think the solution is not just anecdotal. it's structural, right? there's an entire office in the governor's there's an entire state office inside the governor's administration that is going to to be shut down because it was a political codgeal, effectively. and there are real fundamental administrative changes that are going to be necessitated from this entire scandal. >> right. >> and also probably overdue. the new jersey governor's office is probably too powerful. it's possible, i mean, governors

will never say this, it's very possible that aren't enough checks and balances on the governor of new jersey. that this office is simply too powerful. that it was not structured properly, that there was an office that was was meant to be that has simply become partisan. and you bring up the office of the governor of new jersey which has been plagued for years. just today, wanting to give away money to fund yet another building at the world trade center site. you're right, there were structural problems. and practices the only blessing, if you can call it that, from the scandal is that they're being exposed and they're being addressed. >> i think, hunter, not to get too heavy-handed with it, you talk about transparency in government and accountability. and here was the guy that was working quote/unquote, with bipartisan support and it may

have all have been effectively a lie. again, the implications are fairly broad. the port authority piece, there would seem like major changes need to happen over there. right. and as part of his internal review that he's conducting on himself. christie has the port authority -- they had expert panels meeting on monday to talk about reform there. but the port authority was actually being investigated before bridgegate ever happened. that's how the legislative committee had subpoena power. it's now being investigated on multiple fronts. you have the new york d.a. reportedly investigating the bridge that was featured in the opening sequence of "the sopranos." you have david wildstein's finances being investigated. and there were problems for a long, long time. and people aren't necessarily buying that itself. >> i'm wait for the david l. russell version to come to a

theater near me. thank you, guys. after the break, the latest fund-raising numbers show that the democratic party have an early advantage heading into the midterms but republican donors have an array. i will talk about max packs and other dark arts next on "now." you, my friend are a master of diversification. who would have thought three cheese lasagna would go with chocolate cake and ceviche? the same guy who thought that small caps and bond funds would go with a merging markets. it's a masterpiece. thanks. clearly you are type e. you made it phil. welcome home. now what's our strategy with the fondue? diversifying your portfolio? e*trade gives you the tools and resources to get it right. are you type e*?

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just weeks after the supreme court struck down limits on overall campaign contributions, and going back to the 1970s, the gop is taking full advantage. republicans' latest big money gambit is the republican victory fund. a joint fund-raising committee that allows donors to give to

all three official gop campaign committees. those would be the republican national committee. the national republican senatorial committee and the national republican congressional committee. another fund-raising group the 2013 settlement which is not actually a golf tournament that allows donors to give one check to 19 candidates at once. and where the old limit was just under $49,000 donors can now give up to $2.4 million to all the candidates in their party. add in party committees and that number jumps to $3.6 million. that is a lot of money but we probably won't know the real effect of the court's decision until after the 2014 midterms. new polling from the "the new york times" and the kaiser family foundation shows that in the senate races most likely to determine the outcome of the next election there is some pretty good news for democrats.

in arkansas mark pryor leads challenger tom cotton by ten points. and in two other races where republicans are thought to have the advantage, polls are neck and neck. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell leads allison lundgren grimes by 1%. whole within the 4% margin of error. and north carolina, only two points separate kay hagan and her challenger tom tillis. joining me now is josh beryl and patricia murphy from daily beast. josh, let me start with you, who is better at fund-raising? outside group, dark guards, official party coffers, what have you? >> yeah. >> we got this news, i think it was a week ago. democrat has a 3 to 1 edge over republicans in terms of outside

groups but in terms of dark money, in pacts and the like, i wonder if republicans are not more influential in the grand scheme of things? >> well, it will be interesting to see how that change as a result of the supreme court. one of the reasons you have dark spending is because you have fewer limits or no limits on what you can spend there. where you had tight limits on how much you can give to candidates and committees. now that people can give so much more money, more will shift into the official platforms which will consolidate more control into the political operations in the hands of professional democrats and republicans. you've had this weird situation where shedding adelman would spend oodles and oodles but instead of handing it to the professional to let him come up with his own way, often not very effective way of trying to achieve those goals. so republicans have leaned on dark money through the last years but they might actually shift away from that because

they can go through the normal channels now. >> i find this is a searing indictment of politics. people have literally suggested on this program. and i have listened to these suggestions that the expiration of earmarks is bad because there's no way to keep rowdy house members in line anymore. and the same way, oh, it's better now. josh points to the silver lining and all of this. now, we're giving -- we're stuffing the party coffers think with cash, at least john boehner can keep his rowdy caucus in light. which is to say that legislators won't do the right thing or compromise or be moderate unless there's cash at the end of the line with them. >> i hate to semi agree with that. i really hate to do it but money is the lubricant in politics. and we have really seen what happens in washington when there ain't no money there, there's not a lot happening. i really hate to say but that money say gigantic motivator, on

politics, on the hill, off the hill, in campaigns. and the reason this decision has so many people worried is that there will be more money in campaigns. not necessarily just from this decision. and i think this decision does give more transparency, if those mega donors truce to put their money back into the committees they're going to are to tell people they're doing it. that's why i don't think that much money is going to flood in. we already know who the big donors are. to me, the money that's been unleashed to the dark money, the superpacts, that's more troublesome, we don't know who is doing it and why they're doing it and what they are giving in return for it. the language that was used in the decision seemed to indicate this is the first of several limits that are going to be struck down. so the voice of the voter will be greatly diminished while the voice of the dollar bill will increase. and that is the direction i think we can all agree we're going in, unless congress acts. and they won't. >> and, you know, the response has been, josh, from

progressives who are worried about the flood of dark money on the conservative side is, well, where are our guys, right? >> right. >> and tom steyer who is a big environmentalist said he's planning on spending as much as $100 million on the subject of climate change. tell me if i'm wrong here, it feels like liberals and progressive donors are more willing to give money to causes that do not benefit the economic interests compared to folks like the koch brothers. >> well, i think it's a mix. i don't think the koch brothers look at this in some totally cynical way where they say, here, let's try to advance policy that advances our personal business interest. now, much of the policy they advocate is in line with their business interests. but it's a lot easier to sort of develop a world view that is to your advantage than to decide

that you're going to promote a world view that you think is morally correct. >> isn't it the chicken and the egg? it's like we're going to get a lot more money if we advocate for drilling anywhere and everywhere, that's part of our ethos of the market and deciding on corporations. >> i guess the question is what we're trying to figure out here. i don't know it matters that much in terms of public policy. i do think there's an outcome of the koch brothers sort of imagine in cartoonville and sitting in some lair trying to come up -- >> that lair is heldly dick cheney -- >> yeah. those policies happen in policies that are very good for the koch brothers which is part of the reason why they think they're good policies for everybody. i think you're going to, for example, mispredict their action fz you assume they're going to behave in a self-healing way

rather than a principal way that happens to be to their benefit. >> i won't say that i'm going to hold my breath waiting for them to rehav in a principaled way. patricia, you point this out in an article today, the schism or the anguish some democrats feel about supporting democrats who take views on energy issues, social views what have you. i mean, there seem to be a more mental turning around of issues inside the progressive circles in terms of which candidates support than there son the other i'd of the aisle? >> well, i talk to a lot of progressives and a lot of them are driven by what they consider the higher angels of it. i don't want to say naive, but just values. and they have a hard time giving to, yes, some of the red state senators who believe they're going on the wrong issues like climate and guns. like a whole bunch of a number of other social issues.

i've talked to other liberals, a afl-cio, they're giving to everybody. not the battle of who's the senator in arkansas. >> patricia i know you're a betting woman, what's going on with these four contested races, how bad does it look, you're in a red state as we speak? >> speaking of a red state, i think red states are still going wrong. >> they're still red? >> yeah, they're red, that's why a lot of liberals don't want to support them because they don't vote the party line along with democrats any way they want them to. north carolina, i think kay hagan might be okay. arkansas i think, baggetts is going to be okay in alaska. these people are born and raised in these states. they know how to win elections and that's why they're there. will the democrats keep the senate? i'm not so sure. >> josh and patricia, thank you both for your time and thoughts, my friends. coming up, the gop certainly

has its share of weird scientists. that's an underestimate. but a debate in north carolina last night, all four republicans who are vying for that state's senate seat made clear, made very abundantly clear that they have their headed planted firmly in the sand. more on that coming up next. if i can impart one lesson to a new business owner, it would be one thing i've learned is

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mr. harris. >> no. >> miss grant. >> no. >> mr. brandon. no. >> mr. tillis? >> no. >> climate change denial is confusing. when it comes to the legislative body that writes our nation's laws, the fact that all four candidates, for senate, refused to acknowledge that 97% of climate scientists agree on. that fact isn't just confusing, it is frightening. but maybe all the facts and the figures and the data points are too much for this group of candidates to process. perhaps colors make it easier. if so, we point them to this nasa map that shows them exactly what happens to temperatures around the world over the last 62 years. here's a hint, north carolina. pay attention to the orange parts. after the break, thoughts host bill o'reilly weighs in on the scandal at cliven bundy's nevada

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on tdi models. the conservative obsession with all things bundy continues. last night, bill o'reilly asked a militia member and a bundy supporter a very important question. >> what's the difference between mr. bundy and the occupied wall street crew. >> doesn't respect the government for a variety of reasons and feels like it can go into a city like oakland and burn things down. what's the difference? >> well, the difference is, mrmr. mr. bundy is providing a service to the nation. he's a rancher. he's providing the country with beef. i still don't know what they're providing the country with. >> bundy is providing a service to the nation and providing the country with beef. okay. if you mean beef in the form of

armed militia members who have flocked with guns and pointed guns to federal agents? or if you mean red meat who have delighted in bundy's defensive freedom. and by freedom, red is the freedom to not pay taxes in just over 20 years. just ahead, targeted strikes reportedly killed dozens in yemen but so far, nobody over here is using the word "drone." counterterrorism analyst michael detroiter joins me for secretive and unofficial wars. that's next on "now." ips. it has magnesium and works more naturally than stimulant laxatives. for gentle cramp free relief of occasional constipation that works! mmm mmm live the regular life.

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there were but for nearly 48 hours this weekend the u.s. and yemen reportedly launched drones and air strikes before yemen sent forces to conduct a ground raid. the yemeni government has confirmed three civilians were killed and five were wounded in one of the air strikes sunday. zbliet president obama's pledge to be more transparent on this issue, the administration this week refused to confirm that american drones carried out these strikes. when asked about it monday, white house secretary jay carney referred reporters instead to the yemeni government. last year alone strikes in yemen killed 116 people including 16 civilians. pointing me now michael leiter. michael, thanks for joining me. let's talk first about yemen. i think we have talked about this country on the show is that officially or unofficially designated a front on the war on terror, but, yet, very clearly, it is. >> well, see, there's no official designation in that

sense. but really, since at least 2007 and really going back to 2003, the u.s. has viewed yemen as a very key front on the war on terror. and this really came most to light to most americans during the christmas day underwear bomber in 2008. and some subsequent plots that came from the al qaeda affiliate in yemen. so although pakistan, afghanistan had been in the forefront of many people's minds. in the past three year, yemen has probably been the area that has concerned u.s. counterterrorism officials and has posted the most complex and sophisticated threat to the united states. >> okay. to be clear, it's not that i think there's a chart of officially designated fronts on the war on terror. but in so far as what the american public thinks of this country as engaged in iraq and afghanistan. i think it's surprising, multiple raids over the course of one weekend, and yet, when asked about this, the white

house points the government to the yemeni government. why not point us to al qaeda. the notion that the yemeni government is going to provide information on this. is there a lack of transparency or lack of forthcoming information surprise you at all? >> not really. i think there are at least three levels where you can have transparency if this sense. i expect, i'm quite confident that this has been fully briefed to the key committees in the congress. so, although there may not be public transparency there is transparency to the congress. or at least there must be. second, there is transparency in yemen from the yemeni government. the yemeni government has spoken about this, although not acknowledging the u.s. role. and to the yemeni government that is probably what they want. that government does not want to be seen as an american puppet. and it's very important that they get the yemeni people on the side of the fight against al qaeda. so in that sense, they're not going to be fully transparent. the last type of transparency is transparency to the public. and many of these cases, again,

because the yemenis don't want a big american flag on these operations, the american government and the administration is going to respect yemeni wishes. it is their country. >> and certainly, geopolitics has a lot to do it with it. there's also the question of casualties. i think we have the numbers here. a total 108 air strikes and drone strikes in yemen from 2002 to 2014. and estimated this has to be estimated, 775 to over 1,000 killed. and potentially 81 to 89 civilians killed. there is the question of the cost of those deaths, both diplomatically and just practically speaking, families that should be getting some monetary compensation from the government for the deaths of their loved ones. >> you're absolutely right on that front. and the president took action last year to try to limit collateral damage, civilians being killed. those standards are still going to be imperfect. and there was a strike in

december of last year that likely killed numerous civilians at a wedding party. so there's still a possibility in this fight that real unintended casual this can occur. and in that sense, i think we have the yemenis do have a responsibility, and not just a moral one, but a very practical one to help these families help the civilians that are killed so we're not alienating them and driving them towards al qaeda. and to be clear, thorch those who support strikes who are trying to disrupt current plots and i generally count myself as one of those, you as have to accept that these strikes can in the long run cause real alienation and radicalization. that's why you simply can't voluntary a strike policy. you have to have a strike policy and a broader set of policies to aid and the like to yemenis to make sure battling lktd on all fronts and not kill in onesies and twocies. >> and potentially, it involves

anwar al awlaki whose son was killed in one of drone strikes. and a killing of iraqi with the rebuff of secrecy around this. what is the next move of the white house. do they appeal this ruling? >> i tend to doubt it. the 2nd court of appeals in york said, in fact, the administration talked so much about these sorts of strikes in the targeting of a u.s. citizen anwar al awlaki that they had to produce the mem know that was the basis for that argument. i don't think that the administration continues to fight this. i think that document will be redacted to some extent. i think it will be released and frankly, i think it should be released. the u.s. congress needs to understand what the standards are, how we protect against u.s. casual this and people need to understand why we believe it's necessary in this case to target al qaeda in yemen.

how does that protect the homeland, and what are we doing to reduce the other threats. >> you are and i are in agreement. msnbc counterterrorism only lift michael leiter, thank you as always. >> thanks a lot, alex. coming up as syria touts progress in dismantling its stockpile, disturbing new video surfaces from gas attacks. details on that coming up next. you, my friend are a master of diversification. who would have thought three cheese lasagna would go with chocolate cake and ceviche? the same guy who thought that small caps and bond funds would go with a merging markets. it's a masterpiece. thanks. clearly you are type e. you made it phil. welcome home. now what's our strategy with the fondue? diversifying your portfolio?

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the deadline for the syrian government to turn over its entire chemical weapons arsenal is now four days away. yesterday, an international watchdog reported that 90% of that stockpile has been shipped out of the country. so why are horrific reports of alleged gas attacks still surfacing in syria? >> just a warning the video you're about to see is graphic. this amateur footage, this amateur footage which nbc news has not independently confirmed reportedly shows the aftermath of an alleged gas attack on

monday in a central syrian city. victims are seen choking and gasping for air. there are growing concerns that chemicals like chlorine and ammonia which the government has been forced to turn over, that those chemicals are being used in barrel bombs. that alleged gas attack came less than two weeks after a rebel group claimed chlorine was used in a different city in the same part of the country. the syrian government has denied involvement in the attacks and instead blamed rebel groups. the u.s. government is investigating the reports and the state department said this week that there are indications that a toxic chemical has been indeed been used. the environmental advocacy group greencross international said there have been nine suspected chlorine attacks in syria in the past several months. after the break, there's a new wolf on wall street, we will introduce him to you next. first, courtney reagan has the

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but to land right on it and do some experiments. ♪ so start your day off good with a coffee that's good cup after cup. maxwell house. ♪ good to the last drop corporations are people, my friend. we can raise taxes -- of course, they are. everything that corporations earn ultimately goes to people. >> that never gets old. mitt romney's views about corporate personhood may not have been a winner in the 2012 race but they revealed a view shared by quite a few in corporate and personal america. one with the freedom of corporations and a lot of other things, including in some case the law. at the battle front is a man named benjamin allowsky. who is the toughest cop on wall

street you've never heard of it. the top at the financial services an agency that didn't even exist three years ago. in his case, lawsky penalizing the banks without holding individuals responsible plays into the defense that, hey, everyone else is doing it, why can't we. and therefore, it eninsures that wall street's equality has never changed. lawsky told the financial times you have to incur bad financial conduct within corporations. lawsky does not have powers. but also hasn't stopped him from identifying individual banker business name. as lawsky sees it public shaming is one of the only strat zwlas would. despite the fact that an extra $14 trillion in wealth were wiped out in the financial

crisis, not a single individual was jailed. and the country continues to witness new instances of corporate wrongdoing every other day, something lawsky says should serve as no surprise. if you don't do anything about individual conduct you're proceeding down the same path. it happens again and again and again. joining me now is the new york superintendent of financial services, benjamin lawsky. everybody is going to know your name now if they don't know it already. thanks for joining me. >> that's fine. >> this is a topic i feel like we want to and would like to talk about this every day because it feels like to those of us on the outside that the needle has not moved in terms of prosecution and coming to terms with corporate wrongdoing. let's talk first about the individual shaming and naming, right? as a deterrent, that seems to make sense in terms of argument. but then the few sort of financial pooh-bahs who have been named.

jamie dimon oversaw how many billions of dollars in fines 'just got a 74% raise. even the few individuals who have the name, it feels like never see any repercussions for bad action. >> look, there are two different issues there, i think. one is compensation. and how we think about compensation. and one is how we think about individual accountability. at dfs, we've been in business for three years now, the more we've been watching what's been unfolding, we're taking action and other regulators are taking action, and we haven't seen a lot of change. and we're very practical, when you try to change the system. try to make our system better, stop the wrongdoing we're seeing, yet, we're seeing flawed after flawed after flawed, at different firms it feels like groundhog day we start to ask ourselves the question, what are we doing wrong. what we came to conclude, one of the things we haven't been focused on enough, all of us as

regulators is you can fine a corporation $1 billion, $10 billion, but if the individuals working on that corporation, this is where it links back to what you said about compensation, if the individuals in that organization ultimately are just going to get a raise or get a bonus or do better next time or feel no other repercussions, i don't know that we're changing anything. at dfs, governor cuomo created us to make the system better. do we try to focus on things of the past and deal with them? or do we focus on what kind of a system do we want in the future? if we think about that, the number one thing we have to do is deter bad conduct. how do you do that? one, you expose the conduct in very real terms and you expose the individuals involved in that conduct. it's very harsh. it's hard to do. it takes regulators to come out of their comfort zone. but i think we've come around to the view that maybe it's time for regulators to get out of their comfort zone. >> in terms of how we got to

this point, i would see it like three different things like a confluence of events, if you will. one having to do with sort of the power, the lobbying power of the banks. one having to do with brains and talent and resources devoted to the policing of some of these financial institutions or the regulation of these institutions. and the third is heart which is to say america's appetite for interest is following a part of the world and economy that is inherently confusing even to those who work inside it-which of those things has been the most powerful in terms of getting to this point? >> in terms of a negative way? >> yes. >> i think it's an amalgamation of all of it. i used to be a prosecutor here in manhattan. a federal prosecutor many years ago, it's just obvious, when you track the cases if you put enough resources on it, things go well. if you have a hiring freeze and

people leave, over time, you can't stop your cases the way you normally would, it's devastating with the ability to bring criminal cases, especially on the criminal side which we don't do at dfs, you're going up against the best lawyers in the country. you're trying to prove things that are difficult to prove, very complex. so i focus a lot on the need for resources. the s.e.c. could always use more resources. all of the federal agencies could use more resources. at dfs, the governor has been very good for us to make sure we have the resources that we need to do what we need to do. >> at that end, the commodities securities trading commission has a budget of $2 billion to police $693 trillion of derivatives. they're doing a good job given those resources but that's a lot of work on a very shoestring budget, if you will. there's also the question of morale. if you're a young, smart, legal

mind do you go work for the guys who keep continually seeming to lose this greater fight for accountability? or do you go work for the other guys who seem to be winning? >> yeah, look, i hope people don't make that calculation that way. i think there are just a lot of people out there who are just interested in walking on wall street or working in the markets. and there are a lot of people throughout separately who are interested in government service. i hope people go into government service for the right reasons and i hope that they don't get demoralized. but i think it is important, it's not only about resources. but i think when government agencies are pushing the envelope to accomplish their goals and do what's right, i think that inspires the entire agency and hopefully inspires the entire agency. >> i would think the attention of the public i would assume helps, right? the more indignant, the more engaged, the more you get resources and the more momentum? >> and i think it has a profound

effect on the institutions we regulate. they're under far more pressure to. r pressure than other pressures. >> benjamin lawsky, let us have you on the show every day. that is all for now. i will see you back here tomorrow, 4 p.m. eastern. "the ed show" is coming up next. good evening, americans, welcome to "the ed show." live from new york, let's get to work! >> here in the senate, we don't bear any commercial logos, many senators might as well wear -- >> if 80% of the people believe that the deck is fixed against you, then america dies. >> -- evolving into an oligarchic society.