now, that's a show i want to make, not star in. but make. guys, give me a call. that does it for "the cycle." "now" with alex wagner starts now. >> are you a cliven bundy supporter? it's been a bad day if you are. thursday, april 24th. this is "now." >> bundy backlashed. >> new comments by bundy will undoubtedly leave some of his supporters with buyer's remorse. >> are they better off as slaves picking cotton. >> unhinged. he's a nut. quotes are disspigble. he's gotten so much sympathy and defense from high-profile people. >> is the federal government persecuting cliven bundy? >> called domestic terrorist i

call patriots. >> i'm not a rancher but the federal government might be thankful you're cutting the lawn for free. >> republican politicians running as fast as they can. >> this man is your cause? >> i don't recognize the united states government as even existing. >> he's a u.s. atheist. >> talk about welfare. this guy wanted a free ride off the rest of us. >> huge gift to us because it falls into this stereotype that a lot of people already have about republicans. >> cliven bundy, turns out, is a racist. he is, of course, the same cliven bundy who many conservatives and one cable network in particular has spend the last months as a patriot. >> grazing on public land and eating public grass. >> hat tip 2016 potential

candidate to weigh in on the bundy ranch. >> your family raising their cattle, grazing there for all of these years. >> we should have a federal government protecting the liberty of citizens, not using the jack boot of authoritarianism to come against the citizen. >> what senator reid calls domestic terrorists i call patriots. >> i'd like to see the land owned by individuals, privately or the very most the state government but not the federal government. >> i was scheduled to be out there tonight if this didn't end this weekend. if he -- if they come back, i'll be out there with you. >> bundy revealed racism in a speech to supporters over the weekend. first reported in today's new york times that bundy began his rant by saying to those gathered, i want to tell you one more thing i know about the negro. from there, bundy let it rip, spectacularly and unashamedly revealing himself to be a living vestige of the confederacy,

understanding of the world is stuck on the plantation. spoke about driving through a public housing project in las vegas and the black men and women he saw along the way. >> and because they were -- they were basically on government subsi subsidy. what do they do? abort young children, put young men in jail because they never learned how to pick cotton and i've wondered, are they better off as slaves picking cotton, having family life and doing things or better off under government subsidy? >> being racist is like being pregnant, you either are or aren't. what is stunning about cliven bundy's racism is just how far along he is in the spectrum of bigotry. here was a person in the 21st century suggesting black men are in jail because they never learned how to pick cotton, that african-americans might have been better off as slaves,

treated like animals, abused as chattel, without any protects under the law that they were better off as slaves than as recipients of food stamps. beyond the shock, there is also the irony. cliven bundy is a kran. er who is very, very angry he no longer seens same federal subsidies he's gotten for over 20 years. he's so angry, he refuses to pay his taxes, and surround himself with gun-toting militia member. cliven bundy, a taker in the most acute sense of the word, degrading people on welfare. so what happens now? is he still a patriot? earlier today, rand paul said, bundy's remarks on race are offensive and i disagree with him. senator dean heller called them appalling and racist. fox host greta van susteren condemns what cliven bundy said

about african-americans. it is not exactly something that is unfamiliar. as the new republic pointed out, by sheer coincidence, conservative murders turn out to be huge racists. new york's chait elaborated, it not a coincidence bundys a gigantic racist like rand paul's ghost writer turned out to be a neocob fed rate white supremacist. so, is it something in the water or does this run deeper? "slate" offered this assessment, only difference between bundy and a host of conservatives is the renegade rancher isn't sophisticated to couch nonsense in sound bite and euphemism. joining me, jamelle boyy and brian boitler. we have bundy clarifying his

remarks just a few moments ago on the peter shift radio show. he said i'm wondering, wondering are they, presumably black people, happier now under this government subsidy system than they were when they were slaves. does that make it any more sanitized? >> not at all. it's a ridiculous question. it reveals his assumptions are saturated with racism. it's -- i'll say what's fun n. to me about all of this, what bundy was saying, wasn't that different from what you've heard from conservative pundits the world over that slavery wasn't has bad for the black family as welfare has been, that african-americans are stuck on the democratic plantation getting adikted to food stamps and welfare and entitlements. he just was not sophisticated enough to put it in those terms. i think more than re-evaluating,

pro-bundy conservatives need to rethink the role that their movement has played in this rhetoric and ideas into the public's fear. >> brian, sean hannity on his radio show said that bundy's comments are beyond repug nan to him, beyond despicable, beyond ignorant. there is a caveat in all of this disavowel, which is that a lot of conservatives still think his ideas about patriotism and his ideas about the bureau of land management are okay. can you actually split the baby on something like this? >> i mean, i guess in theory you can said that cliven's mooching and stealing is heroic even though his views about minority populations on welfare are despicable. so, in theory, you can do that. it's not a good argument, and it -- you know, it's kind of

hard to draw logically. but i guess what i wonder is why sean hannity and all of these republicans who came out to kind of lionize this guy didn't see the possibility that he might be a huge racist coming. i mean it's like it's -- it's every time this happens i think republicans get flatfooted by it, because they told themselves that like, you know, racial animosity isn't a propulsive force behind the conservative movement or certain republican policies and they have to believe that, you know, in order to keep -- to keep pushing them as if they're ideologically neutral. >> i want to bring up this diagram put together by the wire's phillip bump and ask you, jamelle, to brian's point, three intersecting circles, anti-government sentiment, opposition to social programs and racism. now, i think the dispute among a lot folks, both on the right and in the center is to what degree racism, what size that racism

circle should be. yet on the right, it would seem that circle doesn't exist. >> right. you know, i saw that diagram and disagree with the diagram a bit. it's not so much, i think, that there's racism's a motivating factor for a lot of conservatives. i don't think it is. obviously, there are some people, like bundy, motivated by racism but i think it's a sincere ideological belief. what's going on is that it's impossible to disentangle the radical anti-government everybody anti-statism of a lot of conservatives from its roots, not just in the backlash to civil rights gains from the '60s but roots in slavery, right. >> ideas about the premise of states, about the illegitimacy of the federal government stretch back to john calhoun in south carolina, the famous pro-slavery senator and thinker. there's intellectual history and pedigree for moderate conservative tied to arguments

that dame out of white supremacy that's hard to pull apart in a way that leaves you with a clean ideologically, pure, sort of set of conservative ideas. >> brian, you made this point, i thought this was a salient point last week. you said, in reality, many, if not most liberals correctly believe the gop's organizing modus operandi is plutocratic in nature but a plutocratic agenda is unsustainable without being diffused to a populism, for both historical and natural reasons the gop's populism is the populism of white racial resentment. that seems to be -- when we talk about race, it's politically expedient in terms of tying up the agenda to the base. >> what the republican party is organized around now is tax policy preferential to the wealthy, it's going to be hard to win elections based on that

idea alone. you need to fuse it with something that sort of draws like the intensity of a voting base out to vote for you. and that means you need to support simultaneously policies that animate that segment of the population. which is why, i think in paul ryan's budget, paul ryan is not a racist person, but it's no coincidence his budget doesn't propose to cut defense spending or medicare or social security. it proposes to cut food stamps, medicaid, subsidies cliven bundy was talking about make black people so much -- >> subsidies that bears mentioning cliven bundy benefited from himself. >> exactly. and so, what baffles me, and i want to come back to this because i think it suggests that conservatives and republicans have sort of bought into their own line of thinking about this, that really this is all just about sort of like libertarian high mindedness of small government.

and if they believe that they're going to continue to find these cliven bundy-type, like, freedom fighters who surprisingly or surprisingly to only people on the right, turn out -- end up turn out to be huge racists and you know, people on the left are kind of -- were left to shake our heads and say, how come you didn't see that coming? i guess it's instructive and hopefully, maybe the right can learn from it. >> it's worth noting on the split screen you're seeing cliven bundy, who is about to begin his press conference, presumably to clean up the storm or the debris from the storm that began this weekend. i think it's also -- i will say, you know, someone that believe in a two-party system i think it's frankly shocking we cannot find a moderate conservative to come out and say, i disavow not only cliven bundy but everyone who would give to all of his

supporters to the fringe parts of the movement that think this rhetoric is okay, that sort of have woven their fabric with the neoconfederate flag. i mean, there is no one that's willing to do that, it feels like, on the right. >> it's not that surprising, though, right, because republican -- like that entire media cocoon from fox news to websites to talk radio is a real propelling force for conservative politicians, right? if you can -- if you can become the favorite of fox news, you can become the favorite of rush limbaugh, that is hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars in donations, that's a real national presence. just look at ted cruz, before he was a senator and running for senate, his entire appeal platform came from the fact that he was a darling of the media figures. so, this is true, i think, for all republicans, not just conservative ones, but moderate republicans, too. and alienating them, even, you know, not just saying, cliven

bundy is wrong, but going as far as saying he is lawless, condemning media figures who are touting him that alienates the people you need if you're an ambitious republican to get ahead. i'm not that surprised to see no one's stepping forth to do that. it says something disappointing about the republican party that person doesn't exist. >> it does indeed. thank you both. we will monitor that cliven bundy press conference and bring you any news as we get it. after the break, harry reid says the gop has a koch problem. if you look at ads funded by the brothers koch you might agree. howard dean and heather mcgee join me next on "now." in pursuit of all things awesome, amazing, and that's epic, bro, we've forgotten just how good good is. good is setting a personal best before going for a world record.

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new hampshire is famous for scenic drives. but they're tough to enjoy when you're on your way to the doctor. because obamacare limits your choices, some will have to drive more on that hand hour to see a doctor. >> but new hampshire, you only have to flip on your television set to see the latest misinformation about the affordable care act from koch brother connected conservative group americans for prosperity. that ad does not mention the number of enrollees, people getting health care could approach 30,000 once the march numbers are tallied up, according to state officials, nor does that ad mention even more men and women in the state will get health care in the coming months, thanks to new hampshire's decision last week to expand medicaid. the ad fails to explain that the 90% premium hike flashed on

screen there is actually, according to an independent analysis, an average 9% decrease in premiums, thanks to federal subsidies. but the shameless distortions on display in that ad pale perhaps in comparison to the thoughtlessness of a koch-backed ad that began running tuesday in colorado. that ad intended to yolk the democratic incumbent to the sitting president featured a grim-faced photo of obama standing next to mark udall after they visited victims of the aurora movie shooting in 2012. after families complained, americans for prosperity apologized and that's been replaced because americans for prosperity did not want to compromise the integrity of the $35 million advertising assault on the patient protection and affordable care act. >> joining me now, the chair of the dnc, howard dean and heather mcgee.

governor, when it comes to these two ads from koch world, which is worse? it's a hard choice. the misinformation and i would say almost like close to lies here if not outright lies or tastelessness and shamelessness of the on tpportunism -- >> it's not either one of these ads, the fundamental problem is koch brothers believe they have the right because they have 50 billion or $70 billion, whatever they have to run a country. this country was created with the notion all of us had a vote and all of us were equal, not only under the eyes of the lord but under the eyes of our government. this corrupt supreme court, morally bankrupt supreme court, has now allowed people like the koch brothers to be much more equal than everybody else. i think that's wrong. >> do you think, heather, do you think the ideas are working. polyis unclear. seems like the ads have sewn the seeds of confusion but in a "new

york times"/kaiser family poll the majority of people, three southern states, like prime koch territory, kentucky, louisiana, north carolina, would rather that congress improve the aca than repeal it. >> right. i mean, we have to recognize that attacks on the ad have outspent -- have been outnumbered 5-1 ads explaining and promoting the law. so we have to realize how much most american people particularly if they live in these media markets where it's been saturated by these american for prosperity ads are not seeing the full truth. when you look at individual provisions of the law, whether it's preexisting conditions or being able to stay on your parents' insurance until you're 26 or a waitress making minimum wage or getting a subsidy, this is like kayak, right? a shopping portal that has a tax cut involved in it, right. >> this is not the death penal scary thing so many on right are making it to out to be.

people who have had some experience with it are feeling bet bter about it that is. >> reporter: you're seeing confusion. >> conservative governors got away to saying no to. >> the pressure is enormous on governors. i don't see how rick perry runs for president denied 1 million people health insurance. >> which has the worst record. >> rick scott will not win re-election in florida. a million people in florida denied health care by rick scott. i think this going to be tough for the guys. at the end of the day, there are 5% of all americans ensured either through medicaid expansion or this exchange, obamacare exchange. and that means that most people in america are going to know somebody who has this insurance. and if your aurnt saunt says i' a breast cancer survive

somewhere thank god we have obamacare, all of a sudden everything changes because you know somebody, it's not some ad put on by billionaires who don't give a damn, it's somebody you know. >> somebody you know that didn't get medicaid. there's a death rate that has been calculated by a group of researchers at harvard that estimates in places where governors have opted out of medicaid expansion 7,000 to 17,000 people will die. you know, there are competing narratives people kicked off plans. people will die because of the choices governors have made. >> people already dies. the 32-year-old woman who died in florida. i think one of the reasons deal is behind carter in georgia, by four points, georgia closed four rural hospitals because the governor of georgia would not accept medicaid. rural voters are conservative, you take somebody's hospital away interest them, that's what the republicans have done in georgia, you're going to get people thinking about voting for

jason carter and nunn instead of whoever the right winger is and the incoming governor. >> it's an important shift in how policy affects americans because for too long, you can speak to this better than i can, heather, we focused on the middle class. here's a great test for the narratives. people who have insurance have gotten kicked off of it, have to get new insurance tend to be wealthier, the people who are not qualifying for medicaid or hospitals are closing tend to be poor people. most disenfranchised in society. >> i think more and more americans are identifying, self-identifying as working class. you do feel that. people don't feel like the playing field is even. so this idea you're a hard working person and therefore you deserve something different, it's people are finding that actually the notion of poor is expanding to people who are

working really hard to get a fair shot. and people like the koch brothers are really making it very clear that unfortunately right now our democracy's run by billionaires whose self-interest in this is something we don't talk enough about, right? americans for prosperity is a general libertarian no-government regulation outfit and right now they're attacking health care because they think that's where the polls are and that's where the big issues are. but this is funded by the koch brothers, a fossil fuel company, right? the fundamental interest, what is the biggest thing we're not regulating and if we did regulate would have a major affect on their bottom line? they're putting profits in their next quarter ahead of the next generation of our planet. we don't talk enough about that fact the supreme court said this is fine with them, which is the biggest embarrassment of them all. they've done a terrible thing to undermine our democracy. this country is a special country because we have a set of rules in the declaration of independence and the constitution which treats

american citizens better than most other people as it relates to their government and as we relate to each other. what these guys are doing is taking away the american dream. 80% of the people in the country have not seen a raise in 20 years. the koch brothers are saying the rules are fixed, we win, you lose. that is the destruction of the american dream and destruction of the nation that is america. >> an important point. we'll be talking about the destruction of the american dream and parallel tracks of justice and contempt for the poor. thank you so much for your time. coming up, #brutal. nypd, faces new backlash after a major social media fail. soliciting photos of encounters with its officers. details next. ?

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this week in public relations fails, apparently the new york city police department does not realize that encounters with the police aren't always pleasant experiences. on tuesday the nypd's twitter account solicited photos of people with new york's finest, tweeting do you have a photo with a them of the nypd? tweet us and tag it #mynypd. it may be featured on our facebook. and the nypd certainly got what they asked form new yorkers have had a lot of photographic experiences with the police, experiences like being beaten with a baton, having one's dog held to the ground, having one's dog shot, and having one's legs run over by a motorcycle cop. the nypd twitter campaign went viral and spawned similar hashtags on the west coast, in mexico and in france. in a press conference yesterday, commission bill bratton

responded to the campaign saying most pictures i looked at, they're old news. yeah, but perhaps it was a little too soon for the nypd takeover of twitter verse. this is a department that is under fire from both the aclu and the new york attorney general for its highly controversial stop and frisk policy, and it is the same department that just last week ended a decade-long program of religious profiling. given all this reputational cleanup at hand, perhaps now is not the best time to solicit fun-loving photos with police officers. perhaps next time, nypd, stick to kittens in trees. after the break, moments ago, nevada rancher cliven bundy tried to clarify his racist comments in "the new york times" and by clarify, we mean muddy the waters even more. his latest remarks are next. really... so our business can be on at&t's network for $175 dollars a month? yup. all five of you for $175.

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press conference held by rancher cliven bundy, which just wrapped up in bunkerville, nevada moment ago. in the face of broad and unstinting criticism from all corners, bundy doubled, tripled and quadrupled down on his theory that black people might have been better off during slavery. take a listen. >> the question is, is are they slaves way they are or where they live, slaves to charity and government subsidized homes and are they slaves when their daughters are having abortions and their sons are in the prisons? i'm not saying that i thought they should be slaves or i didn't even say they were better off one way or another, i'm wondering if they're better off. >> the answer cliven bundy, no, they are not slaves. for the throngs of conservatives

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you can make a difference. every cereal box counts. album was a defining moment in hip-hop history. swung the rap pendulum to birthplace of new york city after years of west coast domination and markeden inflection point of the groups like quest and dela soul and the gangster rap that would dominate the '90s. also a vivid portrait of daily life in the inner city one that has become etched in our collective memory. time is il mattic a documentary marks 20th anniversary of the album, debuted last week at tribeca film festival. >> i was trying to make the perfect album. about comes from the days of wild style. i was trying to make you

experience my life. i wanted you to look at hip-hop differently, i wanted you to feel the hip-hop is changing and becoming something more real. i gave you what the streets felt like or sounded like, tasted like, smelled like, all in that album, and i tried to capture it like no one else could. >> joining me now, legendary artist nas who debuted at the tribeca film festival. thank you for coming. >> thanks. good to be here. >> so let's talk about when this album was released, because as we said in that intro, it kind of moved the needle back from the west coast to the east coast, it sort of changed the momentum, if you will, in the rap world. did you know that was going to happen? did you think consciously about the style of rap that you were giving the country, the world, and how much of a game changer that was? >> yeah, i mean, i department

know what would happen once it came out but i know that was the whole plan, was to change everything, because that's what i had to do or if you wanted to come out with a record at that time if you wasn't going to make a change, then you failed, you know? it was that serious at that point in time. so, i was inspired by everybody from ice cube and dr. dre to big daddy cane, so on and so forth. so i was trying to bring that -- that thing to the forefront because it was kind of from my side of town, new york, it was kind of like not fading away but it looked like -- it didn't look that strong at that point. so my whole plan was to come back with that. >> let me ask you something, because we talked about 1994 and there was a dichotomy, east coast versus west coast, southern regional hip-hop which

was just coming out. now it's everywhere, it's everything. in '80s people would listen to blondy and sugar hill gang. now it seems totally natural, once again. the lines have become more blurred. what do you think led to that? i mean, what -- was there a moment? artists in particular that you think helped broker that sort of culture that exists now which samples from everywhere and everything? it's no big deal to hear electro in a rap song whereas 20 years ago that would have been unheard of. >> things evolve. go back to africa. they were doing electro in '81, '82, his thing was sci-fi. they invented that. up hop brought all of these things to the table and things evolve, you know, through time. >> let me talk to you about

evolution, because you are from the queens projects and in 2011 the highest number of queens-related stop and frisk dintss were in queens bridge. new york city changed. the gent triification has been swift, unapologetic. for black people in america, people in low income neighborhoods, you know, what do you say to them in terms of how the world has shifted? in many ways without a glance backwards, without a look to their struggles? >> the struggle is real. it's a thing that's been going on since there was an america. but you know, when you talk about evolving we have to evolve as a people if we realize, you know, what's out there, what's out there, the traps that are out there, no matter who's laying the traps, no matter how many traps there are, we have to challenge that, we have to become swifter, we have to become smarter and get above and

around that. >> do you think -- we've been talking a lot about race in america and some of it has to do with the fact we have a black president, some of it is it's part of the natural american discourse to talk about the things that have divided us in the past and continue to divide us today. you've got into a battle with bill o'reilly and folks on the right. do you feel like we're progressing as a society in terms of the way in which we think about color and the way we treat people with different skin tones? >> yeah, there's a large part of us that's getting better that's realizing this is wait the world's supposed to be, we're supposed to be a beautiful melting pot. but then there's some people that hold on to the old, you know, ways of the world. they can't let it go, they're scared to let it go. public enemy made an album called "fear of a black planet" and i mean, there's so much that's going on in this world, race is one of them. race is a big problem,

especially amongst african-americans at a point where in the 21st century, you know, and nas is just -- nas and hip-hop is as american as apple pie and they have to eat it. they have to eat their humble pie and chill out because this is the way of the world. if they don't get in, if they stay out of the loop of things, they're going to find themselves, you know, gone. the whole world is evolving. if you don't understand you have to change your way, man, you're like, you become like a dinosaur. you become -- you become something to laugh at. >> nas, a real honor to have you on the show. i have made every single one of my friends super crazy jealous because you've been on the show. coming up, matt tie eveny has written a searing indictment of white collar crime, evils of american justice. he joins me to discuss just

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goes far beyond wealth gap and journalist and author matt taibbi is here to talk about it next. first, sue herrera has the cnbc market wrap. >> a look where we stand going into tomorrow morning's trading session. the dow jones industrial average basically finished flat on the trading session in a choppy day. standard & poor's gained three. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. salesperson #1: the real deal is the passat tdi clean diesel

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let me tell you about the very rich, they're different from you and me. today 88 years late, the biggest difference between the rich and rest of america besides money is that when ordinary people especially poor people commit crimes, they go jail, even when those crimes are not worthy of the sentence, they go to jail. but when very rich people commit crimes, they don't go anywhere. and perhaps the worst thing about the inequity we have grown to just accept it. in his new book "the divide, american injustice in the age of the wealth gap" matt taibbi argues vast and pervasive inequality has made us, quote, numb to the idea rights aren't absolute but enjoyed on a sliding scale. the rule of law replaced by giant idiosyncratic bureaucracies that are designed to criminalize failure, poverty and weakness on one hand and immunize strength, wealth and success on the other. we still have real jury trials,

honest judges and free elections, but underneath that surface is a floored and malevolent bureaucracy that mostly keeps the rich and poor separate through thousands of tiny, scarcely visible inequities. joining me now, matt taibbi author of "the divide, american injustice and age of the wealth cap" which debuted in the top ten of the new york best-seller's list. a big constitutional premise we're all supposed to be equal under the law. >> right. >> when you look how the law's applied, hsvc launders millions of dollars for drug cartels, nothing happens. first time offenders locked up for months, years decades. feels like the justice system, the law does not treat everybody equally. >> true. we have the law and under the law we're all equal but there's a problem of prosecutorial discretion where there's wiggle

room. it's a gray area. there, human beings decide whether or not they apply the law to this person or that person. that's the problem that we fallen into where prosecutorial discretion is kind of gotten out of control where on the one side, we're simply no longer pursuing cases against a certain kind of offender whereas on the other side it's a gigantic, mindless punishment machine if you get swept up in it it's all over. >> there's been more talk of corporate wrongdoing. we had benjamin losky on, designated by the governor to clean up wall street. feels like there is momentum to deal with that criminal acting. the big, giant, messy machine, the justice system for everybody else, seems like -- seems like there's less momentum in terms of meaningfully cleaning that up. >> right. i agree with you.

i think there's a bun. >> of things going on here. one, other people on wall street frustrated by these bad actor whose continually get away with things, not only do they not get prosecuted but stay in business, which upsets honest companies. also if we're to have another catastrophe like we had in 2008, there are a lot of people in washington who intellectually who are there, we have to fix this problem but not ready politically to admit what it would take to clean up wall street in term of doing a clean sweep. if we had another crash it would be cleaned up quickly. >> in terms of criminal justice or lack there of, more african-american men in prison or jail on probation or parole than enslaved in 1850. we had brian stevenson on earlier this week and i said, how the hell did we get to this point where there are so many

young, black men lockeded up for offenses that will -- that were not serious enough to derail their lives in a way it will. he said it came out of the 1980s, this no tolerance policy on drugs and crime. but do you think we're at the point now -- i mean that curve is shocking and distressing. >> unbelieveble. are we at a point where we can acknowledge as a society the catastrophic failure of the policies? >> the problem with policy and that catastrophe, victims are all behind bars so they're not seen. this is a major, major national political crisis that simply invisible to most americans. only people experiencing it are the people who are either getting out of jail or out of prison or families, and they don't have a very powerful lobby in washington. once upon a time when one of the major parties advocated very strongly on behalf of certain

coalitions but it's just not the case anymore. and i think we're -- this is a problem of visibility more than anything else that this whole thing is just not seen by enough americans. >> and i think you also made the point, contempt we have has a society for poverty -- i will not paraphrase -- we have a profound hatred of the weak and poor and the groveling terror before the rich and successful and building a bureaucracy to match those feelings. you say, who wants to be weak and poor? nobody wants to be weak and poor but people are weak and poor. should we shouldn't thunt them side? >> should they have fewer rights than anybody else? a program that i write about in the book p-100 program, people who apply for welfare have to be preemptively searched by the state, you know, in order to make sure they're not lying on their welfare application. that seems like a fourth

amendment violation to me. but other people, bail-out recipients a welfare taker, they don't have to go through that same kind of treatment. the reason for that is because welfare recipients on the whole, unsympathetic. we think of them being parasites feeding off the rest of us and everybody looks down upon them and feels they're a tremendous imposition. you can see this in the court system and the difference in the way that the judges look at that defendant versus the way they look at white collar defendant. it's a psychological thing more than anything else. >> yeah, i think one of the best parts of the book you examine two tracks, sort of corporate wrong doing, white collar wrong doing and the way we treat everyone else. i can only imagine that being in those sort of -- being in those courtrooms and you know, and seeing what's happening in corporate america was a shocking juxtaposition. >> it is. and actually the subtext of the whole book is my own sort of white guilt. not knowing how bad it was on the other side and discovering

all of these terrible injustices that were going on that i should have known about and i didn't flow. i think everybody should know about it. >> i do, too. i encourage everybody to buy a copy of "the divide." thanks. that's our show for today. i will see you back here tomorrow 4:00 p.m. eastern live from the campus of texas southern university in houston. that is not new york city. "the ed show" up next. good evening, americans, welcome to "the ed show." live from new york. i'm ready to go! let's get to work! >> i want to tell you one more thing i know about the negros. >> bundy's 15 minutes of fame are 15 minute of infamy. >> are they better off as slaves picking cotton and having a family life and doing things? >> lawmakers who saw him as a patriot just last week. >> always at