but just because there's a kook that -- >> here's the problem. >> invalidate the debate itself. >> i agree. but as a political fact it is the case that when you get into the parts of the internet that are most likely to support bundy, you get into the parts of the internet where people are most likely to say racist stuff. >> right. >> christina greer from fordham university. msnbc contributor sam seder. and robert george from the "new york post." thank you all. >> thank you. >> that is "all in" for this evening. the "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. >> that all came together like a symphony. thank you for joining us at this hour. this is a man named william potter gale, the man on the left there. he was a self-styled preacher who held a very long grudge. by which i mean he held a grudge that started half a century before he was born. william potter gale's beef with the universe began in the late 1860s, right after the civil war.

in the years after the civil war the southern states were still far from folded back into the union. they were still under the control of the federal troops. the southern states were legally part of the union again but only because they had lost the war. and so they were also kind of occupied territories. and they hated it. after years of the reconstruction era of the southern state capitals being occupied by federal troops after the civil war, white southern lawmakers used a series of political machinations that would make a senator blush to wrangle through congress at the time a law to basically get those federal troops, those hated yankee union troops out of the south. "from and after the passage of this act it shall not be lawful to employ any part of the army of the united states as a posse comitatus." that last part is latin. posse comitatus means power of the county. and throughout history, going back to england, it refers to the county government. specifically the county sheriff

as the supreme law of the land. our posse comitatus act in 1878 said federal horses could no longer essentially supplant local authorities in the south. they could no longer supplant local authorities in handling law enforcement and the protection of the population. and that act came out of a very specific time for a very specific purpose. that act said union troops, get out of the south. our counties are going to take it from here. and so roughly a dozen years after the end of the civil war the federal government did pull the troops back from the southern states. and local white officials in the south were thereby essentially cleared to reassert their authority over their own communities. we know exactly what they decided to do with it, right? the end of the reconstruction era led to jim crow segregation and the lynchings and the cross burnings and the organized terror campaigns against black americans that were used to enforce the jim crow rules. the years after reconstruction

were so difficult for our country that a lot of people still argue that the civil war hadn't really ended in the south. and it went on that way decade after decade. out of the 19th century and into the 20th century. in 1957 president eisenhower sent federal troops back into the american south. he sent them so they could stand guard over the integration of little rock central high school in arkansas. he sent soldiers to make that happen. the u.s. supreme court had made integration the law of the land, but it took federal troops to make it the law of arkansas. by that time old william potter gale, he was already preaching anti-federal government, white supremacist claptrap which he put under the banner of the christian identity movement. but that decision by president eisenhower to send in those troops to arkansas in 1957, that so enraged william potter gale that he decided he was going to start his own new branch of that movement and he was going to give it a new name. a writer named kevin kerry wrote

a terrific act of this a while back in the "washington monthly." william potter gale called his new movement posse comitatus. he named it after that 1878 law that had forced union troops out of the reconstruction south. as mr. gale explained his idea, "county sheriffs were the supreme legal law enforcement officers in the land. and county residents had the right to form a posse tone force the constitution however they as sovereign citizens chose to interpret it. public officials who interfered," said gale, "should be hung by the neck at noon." so individuals are sovereign. only the county sheriff is in charge. the federal government has no authority. in this guy's white supremacist world. and yes, his operating theory sounds crazy and fringe, and it was crazy and fringe. but if that was your particular flavor of extremism in, say, the early 1970s and you didn't think the anti-civil rights, anti-fluoride, john birch

society was extreme enough for you, then you could join william potter gale and his radical posse comitatus. all through the 197 0z mr. gale worked the farm belt states specifically planting chapters in clusters in places like kansas and texas. his texas chapter was founded by this guy, who's named gordon call. before the posse comitatus thing got going, gordon kahl had already announced that he would no longer pay income taxes because he said he was sovereign as a man. he said the government was satan. and for a long time it was one thing to be that one lone guy in texas with that crazy idea. but along comes this good organizer guy with the posse comitatus idea and all of a sudden he's the leading member of a movement. you know, the sheriff is the only law. way out there. racist christian identity movement called the posse comitatus. gordon kahl, the die from texas, he ended up serving time in prison for not paying his taxes because he didn't believe he had to.

then he got out on parole, and he violated his parole. and once he violated his parole, federal marshals came to collect him, and it went horribly wrong. >> police in the northern plains and canada tonight are hunting for at least two gunmen wanted for killing two u.s. marshals in a blazing shootout last night. it happened in medina, north dakota. and as roger o'neil reports, the men who got away are members of posse comitatus, a militant anti-tax group. >> police were trying to arrest 53-year-old gordon kahl of midland, texas for violating probation on an income tax evasion conviction. kahl is described as a fanatical opponent of taxes. he was formerly a farmer in north dakota and was attending an anti-tax meeting of farmers at this clinic in medina. kahl, a member of the radical anti-tax group posse comitatus is known to be armed and dangerous. authorities said in the past kahl has said he would not be taken alive. >> gordon kahl ended up escaping to arkansas, and he was killed in a shootout in arkansas. that was 1983.

a little less than a decade later, in 1992, it was a white supremacist in ruby ridge, idaho. he'd sold some sawed-off shotguns to somebody who turned out to be an undercover atf agent. he ended up going to jail, getting released on bail, not turning up for his trial. when federal marshals turned up at his place to say hey, you've got to turn up for your trial, he ended up in a shootout with those federal marshals. his wife and his teenage son and a marshal were all killed. that was ruby ridge. randy weaver was a member of the aryan nations. he'd also bounced around this world of tax protesters and people who considered themselves to be sovereign citizens. direct inheritors of this idea that you are a nation unto yourself, you are sovereign, and no one can tell you what to do except for maybe the sheriff. today the people who call themselves sovereign citizens are definitely still around. their numbers are increasing. according to the people who track these things. one of the most visible signs about them is they tend to make their own i.d.s if they carry them at all.

they may not put real license plates on their cars as well because to them there is no legitimate state or federal government. and it's silly stuff in a way, but over time these self-proclaimed sovereign citizens have become pretty violent and therefore pretty scary. in 1993 a farmer named james nicholls contested a speeding ticket in michigan by claiming that he was a sovereign citizen and thus could not be prosecuted. his brother tried to pull the same thing by paying a debt on a bank that he -- on a bank that was an institution that he made up, did not exist. his brother was terry nichols. timothy mcveigh and terry nichols both consider themselves to be sovereign citizens. they ended up blowing the alfred p. murrah federal building in oklahoma city in 1995, killing more than 150 people. when timothy mcveigh got pulled over after the oklahoma city bombing, it was because he was driving a car without license plates because sovereign citizens don't believe in license plates. over the years members of these

groups spawned by the posse comitatus movement, they've tried to separate themselves sometimes from the overt racism and white supremacy that launched their movement in the first place. but after a lot of new attention to these groups, after the bombing in oklahoma city, nbc's "nightly news" sent a hidden camera into a missoula gun show and the reporter for that segment, fred francis, he found all those old threads still knotted together. >> in many cases the hate groups of the past have reconstituted themselves into these militias. in isolated regions like this it's easy to find people who worry about losing their weapons. but once involved many find there is an ideology driving the militia craze. white supremacy. with the christian identity movement deep in the background. nearby, a branch of his militia was selling guerrilla manuals along with blatantly anti-black, anti-semitic literature. this comic book aimed at school

kids features the hero white will and contains graphic images of whites beating blacks. and this book, "america: free, white, and christian," saying that the united states was created as a white christian nation, that freedom of religion basically pertained only to christians. and with these weapons confiscated from michigan militiamen last year was this religious tract, warning revelation is about to be fulfilled. it forecasts death for anyone who's not a christian true believer. >> that report from nbc was in 1995. a quarter century after the pseudominister with the grudge launched this whole idea of the white christian birthright. christian identity. the white christian birthright in a world in which there is no real federal american government and the county sheriff is the only law of the land, that a sovereign citizen man should acknowledge. today you can still find him, william potter gale, you can still find him in places like this. memorialized by the aryan nations online.

but you can also found echoes of his ideas in place like this. the oath keepers. guardians of the republic. and the ten orders that they will not obey. also these folks. the constitutional sheriffs and peace officers association, led by sheriff richard mack, foremost purveyor of the sheriff's in charge rule today. sponsored by what i'm sure is some very nice freeze dried apocalyptic food. sheriff mack was the one who made headlines in the middle of the cliven bundy fox news-hyped nevada ranch standoff recently when he said that he and the militia members flocking to nevada to fight the federal government alongside that rancher, they might try to use their wives and daughters as human shields once the shooting started. >> we were actually strategizing to put all the women up at the front. if they're going to start shooting, it's going to be women that are going to be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers.

>> you see what it says on his hat there? see? cspoa. that's his group. the constitutional sheriffs and peace officers association. you go to their website, it tells you about power-hungry government officials backed by people with hidden agendas have convinced us to sacrifice our freedoms bit by bit. and with every change they gain a little more power, a little more control. but what does this have to do with us, the constitutional sheriffs and peace officers association? well, this. the county sheriff, he says, is the line in the sand. the county sheriff is the one who can say to the feds beyond these bounds you shall not pass. this is not only within the scope of the sheriff's authority, it is the sheriff's sworn duty. it explained we already have hundreds of police, sheriffs, and other officials who have expressed a desire to be part of this holy cause of liberty. we're going to train and vet them all state by state. then these local governments will issue our new declaration to the federal government regarding the abuses that we will no longer tolerate or accept. said declaration will be enforced by our constitutional

sheriffs and peace officers. in short, the cspoa will be an army to set our nation free. an army that will free us from the federal government because the county sheriff is the highest law in the land. there is no federal government. there's only the sheriff. posse comitatus, the power of the county. this idea that the county sheriff is the highest law in the land and the federal government has no authority, it is a weird idea. but it is an old idea that is directly in a linear way, directly descendant in this country from the people who came up with this cockamamie argument in the first place in the 1800s. to argue that federal troops shouldn't be allowed into the south to protect black people. when you hear people arguing this weird idea, that they don't acknowledge the authority of the federal government, that they only acknowledge the sheriff, there is a really specific place where that idea comes from. >> what is your response to harry reid?

>> i don't have a response for harry reid, but i have a response for every sheriff across the united states. every county sheriff across the united states, disarm the federal bureaucrats. take the federal united states bureaucrats' guns away. that's my message today. they wanted to show the american people and the world that they had unlimited power, and they -- you know, they had taken over states' sovereignty, our nevada laws, our public lands. you know, listen -- listen. do you think they really have taken it over? i don't think so. they might have took over our clark county sheriff, but they never took over we the people, the sovereign people of this nation. we're standing. and we're going to stand until we take the guns away from those bureaucracies. >> what would happen if they came in the early morning hours one day to your ranch?

>> well, first they've got to say harry, get your army out of nevada. get your army away from my ranch and clark county public land, and keep it out. and if they come, we'll deal with them tonight. that's what we've got to do, we'll just deal with you. when you've got guts enough to do it, come on. >> well, he also said, richard mack, is i don't think it would be possible to launch a raid without violence. if they came to arrest you, would you surrender? >> i went to the proper authorities. >> meaning? >> it would have to be clark county sheriff. if he came to arrest me, i would definitely let him arrest me. >> let me go -- >> he's the only man -- >> go ahead. >> he's the only man with arresting power in clark county, nevada. >> clark county sheriff is the highest legal authority in the country if you live in clark county, nevada. fox news channel, the conservative media broadly, i

don't think there's any reason to believe that they have spent all this time hyping and glorifying and romanticizing this rancher in nevada because he is a posse comitatus guy, because he adheres to this long-standing bizarre conspiratorial fringe belief that the sheriff is the highest legal authority in the country and the federal government doesn't exist. i don't think fox news has been celebrating him for weeks now specifically because of that. but somebody should have noticed that the guy kept bringing this stuff up, right? >> i don't recognize the united states government as even existing. >> even in the really far right-wing reaches that have become normal republican and conservative politics in our country in the last few years, it is not a typical thing to hear somebody say not that they don't like the federal government or that they wish the federal government was smaller but that they don't believe the federal government exists. that's weird, right? when you're talking with somebody about the actions of this purported federal

government and they respond that they don't think it exists, that they recognize no legal authority other than their county sheriff, that is a weird enough assertion that it should prick up your ears, right? it should make you google or something. shouldn't it? >> it would have to be clark county sheriff. if he came to arrest me, i would definitely let him arrest me. >> all right. let me go -- >> he's the only man -- >> go ahead. >> he's the only man with arresting power in clark county, nevada. >> okay. let's move on. that was one of more than half a dozen appearances that this sovereign citizen nevada sheriff has made on the fox news channel in the past couple of weeks. they keep booking him over and over and over and over and over again doing segment after segment all day long and all over their primetime line-up, lionizing this guy, taking on his fight against the federal government as if it is their own. celebrating when all the media coverage that they themselves gave him caused enough men with guns to turn up and point their guns at federal officials that

the federal officials left the scene without enforcing the legal federal court order that they had to enforce. and all the time they kept booking him and putting him on tv and putting him on talk radio. all the time they kept interviewing him he kept insisting, bringing up on his own terms, he kept insisting how the federal government doesn't really exist, he doesn't recognize the authority of the federal government, he doesn't open mail from the federal government. he doesn't think the united states government is a thing, and he keeps advancing this bizarre theory that only county sheriffs have authority in america. and the conservative media booking him and the republican politicians siding with him, they all just ignore the fact that he is spouting weird sovereign citizen posse comitatus conspiracy theory nonsense every time they give him a microphone. and it's nonsense of a very specific origin. it's nonsense that derives from the theory that the 14th amendment destroyed the last real american government and federal authorities shouldn't be allowed into the south to protect black people from racist whites. and that fringe and very

specific american sickness has been preserved and handed down in the centuries since they invented it in reconstruction, it has been preserved and handed down in the centuries since by white supremacists to the point where you can buy sovereign citizens, i don't recognize the federal government fake legal papers to try to use in court. you can buy those fake legal papers out of the back pages of "aryan brotherhood" newsletters that circulate in the prison system. whoever was asleep at the switch at the fox news channel and in the offices of senator rand paul and senator dean heller and all of these other people who embraced this nevada guy and who never noticed all the omnipotent sheriff stuff he kept saying and so they were shocked, shocked when he came to this, for the people who were asleep at the switch, why were you? why didn't you see this coming? >> i want to tell you one more thing i know about the negro. they didn't have nothing to do. they didn't have nothing for

their kids to do. they didn't have nothing for their young girls to do. so because they were basically on government subsidy so now what do they do? they abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. and i've often wondered, are they better off as slaves picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? >> that was said on saturday. the remarks were first reported last night by the "new york times." the rancher first asked that the "times" retract its story but then media matters got its hand on the tape of him actually saying it. turns out the "times" quote was spot on. today the rancher reiterated his remarks on a couple more radio shows, explaining the same thing about how blacks were better off in slavery, or at least we ought to ask about it. back again tonight at his ranch he said it again with a lot of press there. and the conservative media and the republican politicians who have glorified him and tried to

turn him into a national hero, today they say they are shocked, shocked that it turns out he thinks african-americans should be picking cotton as slaves because that would at least be good for them. and let us all pray that it is out of ignorance that the "national review" comparing him to gandhi and the right-wing activists comparing him to rosa parks and the fox news channel booking him and his family over and over and over and over and over again as heroes and the republican senator calling his armed supporters pointing guns at federal law enforcement officers patriots, let us pray that that was happening under a veil of ignorance. let us pray that they had no idea that there is a long-standing fairly violent right-wing movement in this country that is born in the defense of slavery and that causes people to say weird stuff about sheriffs being the supreme authority and the federal government not existing. let us pray that the right and these republican senators made a hero out of this guy in bloody ignorance of where he was really coming from.

but it is a choice. as to whether or not you do your homework before you try to mainstream a guy like this. the turn today to let me tell you another thing i know about the negro, that was telegraphed way, way, way in advance here. anybody who chose not to see it coming now has this mess all over themselves.

i want to tell you one thing i know about the negro. they didn't have nothing for their kids to do. they didn't have nothing for their young girls to do. and because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do? they abort their young children. they put their young men in jail. because they never learned how to pick cotton.

and i've often wondered, are they better off as slaves? >> are they better off as slaves? that is what's causing lots of conservative media outlets and republican politicians into a fire sale of their cliven bundy american hero stock today. it maybe should have been a tipoff that this is where he was coming from when mr. bundy said he only recognizes the authority of the county sheriff and that in his mind the federal government does not exist. if mr. bundy did recognize the federal government as existing, he would need to know that this is his congressman, nevada congressman steven horsford, represents the district where mr. bundy's ranch is located in nevada. congressman horsford, i know this is a trying time for you. thanks very much for being with us tonight. >> thank you, rachel. >> so this obviously has become a national story, a very hyped national story. what are the most pressing concerns for your constituents regarding this situation? >> well, thank you for asking me that question and having me on. actually, i spent the day in mesquite meeting with residents who actually live in bunkerville, who are neighbors

of cliven bundy, who live in the moapa valley community. and they, like myself, are extremely frustrated by the fact that we have these armed militia in our community, the fact that children in bunkerville, which is a community of only about 1,200, 1,300 people cannot walk around the corner to their school without armed militia on the hills of our community, that they can't go to church on sunday without armed militia being in or around the church because cliven bundy is there and the armed militia are there. and his comments today do not reflect our community. they don't reflect the majority views of nevadans or the western way of life and the way that most of us feel. they are racist. his comments were racist. they are infused with bigotry and hatred. and they belong in the dustbin of history. he profiled the african-american

community, and it's so ironic and hypocritical because he says that people don't understand his way of life, but yet he would profile and make judgments about another community's way of life. he's wrong. he's racist. and we need to have the armed militia leave our communities. >> because there has been such widespread attention to these remarks that he made over the weekend and that he reiterated today after the publicity, my sense is that the conservative media and a lot of the republican politicians who have really front-paged his story, who have made him a national history, i have a sense that that will wane now, that that will die down some because they're embarrassed to be associated with these racist comments. do you -- locally, though, in terms of your district and mesquite and bunkerville and these communities, do you have a sense that this is going to calm down, that this is going to become a safer and less stressful situation? >> well, that's what we want. that's what the residents of bunkerville and mesquite and

moapa valley want. the conservative media and the republican elected officials who spoke out calling cliven bundy a hero when in fact his comments are anything but, and we want the armed militia to know that we want you to leave. that's what the residents told me today. the neighbors of cliven bundy told me that they want their community back, that they want it to be back to normal, and that this doesn't reflect our community. and these people are not here to solve local land use problems. they have come with an agenda. and that agenda doesn't belong in mesquite, in bunkerville, in moapa, or any place in nevada. >> when you are talking to your constituents and when you're traveling to the different in your geographically very, very large district. when you talk to other people in the line of work, same line of work as mr. bundy, when you talk to other people who are using big tracts of land, whether

they're ranchers or farmers or any other kind of large land use employed in that way, are you hearing sympathy on the issues for him, whether or not there is sympathy for him personally? >> in fact, some of the ranchers that i met with today and that i've met with previously feel like he is breaking the law, that he's getting special treatment, because we have a lot of responsible ranchers who have paid their grazing fees, who have cooperated to move their cattle to other areas, and were compensated fairly for doing so, but because cliven bundy doesn't want to follow the law he is trying to hold himself out as some type of victim here, and it's not reflective of other responsible ranchers who have done the right thing, who have paid their fees, and who recognize the rule of law. >> congressman steven horsford, dealing with an unusual and i'm sure very stressful situation in

your home district with one of your constituents. thank you for being with us, sir. good luck to you. >> thank you, rachel. good to be on your show. >> we've got much more ahead. big show tonight. stay with us.

thought experiment. you are running for office statewide in a very purple state. you are already under political assault by your opponent for your supercalifragilistically superconservative social policies. you've tried walking them back. you've tried apologizing for bills you've sponsored in the past.

you're going to have to figure out some way to convince your purple state that you do not actually want to ban contraception. if that is your particular political challenge right now, who's the last guy on earth you want to see right now? >> one of the things i will talk about that no president has talked about before is i think the dangers of contraception in this country. >> no! rick santorum, not now! a very important senate candidacy just got rick santorum all over it. and yes, it is a huge mess. and that story's next.

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to keep sensitive documents out of the wrong hands. a $29 value free. ♪ ♪ why should you vote for me? because i do not wear high heels. my boots may have real [ bleep ]. >> i am pro life. and i'll answer the next question. i don't believe in the exceptions of rape or incest. >> that man is not a united states senator from colorado. although he tried really hard to be. the last midterm elections in 2010, that of course was a really, really good year for republicans. and in the great purple state of colorado that year not many

people thought that in that 2010 election democratic senator michael bennet had a very good chance of holding on to his seat. michael bennet had been appointed to the senate in 2009 when senator ken salazar got named to president obama's cabinet. bit following year, by 2010, it was sort of looking like it might be the end of the road for appointed senator michael bennet. midterm elections are always hard for the president's party, and he was a democrat. the first two years of the obama presidency had obamacare and all the rest of it. it was clear that it was going to be a really big republican year. colorado was a really ripe potential pickup. michael bennet had never had to run statewide. the first time around to get the seat. he was appointed to it. he was a low profile guy. once he got to washington he stayed low profile. so a lot of people thought michael bennet was going to lose that u.s. 123459 seat to the republicans in 2010. but then the republicans nominated this guy. they nominated ken buck to be michael bennet's republican opponent. and it turned out that was a terrible idea for the

republicans even in a blood red year like 2010. in 2008 and again in 2010 colorado anti-abortion activists had succeeded in getting onto the ballot a really radical anti-abortion ballot measure. it would make all abortion criminal at any stage in pregnancy and for any reason. and because its means of banning all abortion was to define a fertilized egg as a fully grown human person, those ballot measures arguably would have also made it illegal to use the most popular forms of birth control in this country, including the bill. ken buck supported that in colorado. he supported that specifically in the year he was running for senate in 2010. and colorado voters really did not agree with him on that. they really strongly did not agree. these were the results of that personhood ballot measure in colorado in 2008 and 2010. and even though colorado voters hated it by margins that huge, ken buck was all for it and michael bennet made him pay for

that in that senate race over and over and over again. >> i am pro choice. as the father of three little girls, i don't think the government has any business telling them how to make these incredibly painful decisions that ought to be made by a woman with her family and with her clergy and with her doctor. i find it amazing that people who are always talking about getting government out of our hair want them -- want it making the most intimate decisions that could possibly be made. and i certainly wouldn't support any legislation that restricted abortion in cases of rape or incest. >> that was in 2010. and michael bennet beat ken buck to hold on to his senate seat. his overall margin of victory in colorado that year was one point. but his margin of victory among women was 17 points. ah. lesson learned. maybe. this year the other u.s. senate seat from colorado is up. not the one held by michael bennet but the one held by mark

udall. again it's another midterm election year and mid-terms are always tough for the president's party and mark udall is a democrat. he's a widely respected senator. he's taken very seriously in washington. but like michael bennet, honestly, he's not a hugely high-profile guy. and colorado is basically still seen as a purple state. so a lot of the same dynamics apply as applied in 2010 in terms of the democrats worrying about holding on to this seat. but great news for the democrats. the republicans decided that their candidate for the u.s. senate again is going to be ken buck. ha. ken buck already lost to michael bennet. now he can lose to mark udall on the same grounds. that was the initial plan. for a long time they were planning to run ken buck against mark udall so he could lose twice. the republicans, though, then later came to their senses and realized they were about to drive into the same brick wall twice. so after putting ken buck up as their candidate earlier this spring they decided to make a

weird switcheroo. it was a very strange thing. it had been that ken buck was going to be running statewide against mark udall for senate. second-term congressman cory gardner, the guy who represents this district in colorado, was going to run for re-election in his super safe, super overwhelmingly republican district. that had been the original plan. but colorado republicans decided to switch them. so they're having ken buck run for cory gardner's super safe, super safe congressional seat and they're going to have congressman cory gardner not run for re-election there and instead try to get into the senate. a switcheroo like that is rare and strange. but at least it did relieve colorado republicans of the burden of having ken buck as their statewide candidate again. the problem for colorado republicans is that cory gardner has all of the same problems that ken buck did. >> mr. gardner? >> thank you. i have signed the personhood petition. i have taken the petitions to my church and circulated them in my church, and have a legislative

record that backs up my support for life. >> cory gardner like ken buck was a strong supporter of those two colorado personhood ban birth control measures that crashed and burned in the state by more than 40 points. when he was a state lawmaker he'd also co-sponsored an outright abortion ban for colorado with no exception for women who were pregnant because they'd been raped or were the victims of incest. it would have put doctors who did abortions in prison for up to 12 years. that was his legislation at the state level. that was the year before the first personhood ballot measure. which again, he supported in 2008 and he then supported again when it was on the ballot again in 2010. when cory gardner got to congress, he became a co-sponsor for a personhood bill for the whole country, a total outlaw of abortion under all circumstances at all times and arguably outlawing the birth control pill federally. he co-sponsored that in 2012. he co-sponsored that again last year in 2013. but now, now all of a sudden

after the switcheroo he's a statewide candidate in purple state colorado. he's not just running in his super conservative district anymore. so now he has decided, oh, you know what, that was a really big mistake. he did not actually take his name off the federal personhood bill officially. but he now says it was all a big misunderstanding, he didn't really get that he was supporting it before and what it meant and he's sorry he did that. he's sorry he did it over and over again for all those years and all those different venues. he just didn't understand it. he said he doesn't understand his own legislation. and the i don't understand my own legislation defense is a weak place from which to start. but that is where the cory gardner versus mark udall senate campaign in colorado has started. and you can tell that from the fact that this is mark udall's very first official campaign ad. >> it comes down to respect for women and our lives. so congressman cory gardner's history promoting harsh anti-abortion laws is disturbing.

gardner sponsored a bill to make abortion a felony, including cases of rape and insist. gardner even championed an eight-year crusade to outlaw birth control here in colorado. but mark udall protects our right to choose, our access to birth control. mark udall. in a word, respect. >> i'm mark udall, and i approve this message. >> again, that is the first official campaign ad being run by senator mark udall in his re-election campaign against republican congressman cory gardner. the republicans have already switched out one candidate in this race. i think it is unlikely they will be able to do so again. but so far the response by cory gardner to this line of attack is not a strong response. the gardner campaign's response to the udall ad, and i'm going to quote here, and i do not mean to cast aspersions. i'm going to quote their official statement. "at the time cory was not aware that the amendment, if adopted, had the potential to ban some forms of birth control." i didn't understand what i'm doing. i didn't mean it. oops. i only understood once i wanted

to run for higher office when it was inconvenient to hold that old stance. this is not a strong response for somebody who wants to be a united states senator. so the cory gardner campaign is in a bit of a mess. and in the middle of this mess you want to know what happened to them this week? worst possible thing with worst possible timing. on tuesday of this week you want to know who just decided to endorse cory gardner for senate in colorado? i mean, if this is your campaign problem, i swear i'm not against contraception anymore, if this is your campaign problem, who do you least want giving you a hug this week in front of everybody in colorado? oh, god. not rick santorum. >> one of the things i will talk about that no president has talked about before is i think the dangers of contraception in this country, the whole sexual liberty that many in the christian faith have said it's okay, contraception's okay. it's not okay. it's a license to do things in the sexual realm that is counter

to how things are supposed to be. >> when rick santorum endorsed republican congressman cory gardner in the colorado senate race this week, it was not cory gardner who put out a press release about it. it was his opponent, mark udall, who put out the press release, saying hey, look who just endorsed this guy. we have seen how this dynamic plays out in colorado senate races before. even in years that are super inhospitable to democrats. is this a dynamic that is only like this in colorado or is this going to happen all over the place this year? hold that thought. congressman gardner's history promoting harsh anti-abortion laws is disturbing. sponsoring a law to make when you only have one hand,

you're not doing anything as fast as you used to, which is funny, because i still do it better than her. [ afi ] i do not like sweeping. it's a little frustrating. [ zach ] i can't help out as much as i used to. do you need help? let's open it up. [ afi ] it's a swiffer sweeper. [ zach ] it's a swiffer dusters. it can extend so i don't have to get on the step stool.

♪ it's like a dirt magnet -- just like my kids. [ afi ] this is a danger zone. voila! i am the queen of clean! [ zach ] yeah, this definitely beats hanging out on a step ladder.

congressman gardner's history promoting harsh anti-abortion laws is disturbing. sponsoring a law to make abortion a felony. gardner championed a crusade to outlaw birth control here in colorado. but mark udall protects our right to choose and access to birth control. >> senator mark udall's first campaign ad against cory gardner in colorado. mr. gardner's official response to that ad that's he didn't understand the legislation that he sponsored. he didn't understand his own legislation, any of the times he sponsored it, year after year after year. now he its running for u.s. senate, he has decided he is

against what he was previously for. he said explanation for his previous record is that he just didn't know what he was doing. joining us now is lynn bartell, political reporter, thank you for being with us. really appreciate your time. >> sure. >> thank you. from what you know of cory gardner is it conceivable that he misunderstood the personhood that he was sponsoring. >> critics will tell you no. they said that was the argument over and over again. saying people if you the support this you will outlaw certain forms of birth control, fertility treatments, et cetera. but the flip side of this is colorado is one of those states that allows people to put issues on the ballot and time and time again, when something has passed, the voters are like, i had no idea when i voted for this. it would do this. so there is a history here of ballot measures. like i said, the people who are against personhood from the start said, you know, this is crap.

i mean, we said this would do this. >> it does raise -- it does raise an issue in terms of legislative skill. it wasn't just the ballot measure he supported also state level legislation, and being a co-sponsor of the federal legislation which would do the same thing. so, i feel like -- it is, i don't know what i would do if i was in his situation and wanted to disavow my previous response. promote me as a legislator. i don't understand how legislation works. i don't read my own stuff. it seems to me like it is -- i don't know what other options he had. seems it can't possibly play well in the state? >> mark udall's statement is cory gardner's positions haven't changed just his ambition has. he maintains cory still believes all of this. but now he wants to be a u.s. senator. so he has to disavow that. >> i covered senator bennett's defeat of his republican opponent, ken buck in 2010. some of these, use were -- definitely litigated.

does looking back give us any hints how this will play out in colorado. >> what's fascinating is this ad that mark udall debuted his first campaign ad. doesn't show him climbing mountains with the great muscular legs of his. this is the ad that michael bennett ran in october. saying, you know, i just can't do it. i just scant volt for ken. that is what its so shocking to me. how quickly -- we have gone through the speed of light here like we are starting out from the beginning. we are going to hammer you because this is what worked for us in 2010. >> lynn bartells one other thing here. the rick santorum endorsement. as far as we can tell, rick santorum's super pac endorsed a handful. three or four people nationwide. cory gardner its now one of them do. you know, has there been reporting abut whether or not the gardner campaign salt this nomination or anybody saw this coming. >> the gardner campaign did not seek this. i am wondering if what happened.

rick santorum did really well in colorado. when he ran for president. and i'm wondering if people here who weren't involved in that campaign didn't call him up and say, hey -- you should think of endorsing cory. he is so fabulous. >> it's strange. there were three congress people running for the senate. secretary of state in michigan. what is going on here. yeah, i'm certain, just one of the things you go, oh, my god. now what? >> lynn bartells, thank you for helping us understand this. i appreciate your time. >> you bet. >> thank you. we'll be right back. stay with us.

we have covered a lot of oil spills on the show. oil spills from pipelines. oil spills from trains. oil spills from ships and trucks, and rigs and blowout preventers and everything else. one thing we have never covered on the show is an oil spill that

was done on purpose. that was planned in advance. but that bizarre story, we have got for you on tomorrow night's show. and high hope you will join us for that. . good friday morning. right now on "first look," john kerry's strongest comments to date about russia's involvement in ukraine. >> if russia continues in this direction, it will not just be a grave mistake, it will be a expensive mistake. >> measles out break, once thought to be all but eradicated. measles makes a strong return. coffee talk, news about the morning joe that may have you questioning a second cup. plus the nra is more aggressive on gun rights. and how did michael phelps big