from 1978 to 2005 and at his funeral, chanted sainthood. he is remembered for his huge role in ending communism and expanding the public role of hope traveling to 140 countries. also being elevated to sainthood. he sat in st. peters chair from 1958 to 1963. he's the pontiff who called the second vatican council that modernized the catholic church. right now, crowds are already gathering in vatican city. the current pontiff, pope francis says he hopes the two pope saints will continue to inspire the church mission. he will lead the historic mass. pope benedict, also expected to attend. 750 bishops, cardinals and priests will take part in the ceremonies, 1 million catholics are expected to be in rome in vatican city for the event. 18 giant screens will be set up around rome to accommodate to

overflow. msnbc's live coverage starts at 4:00 a.m. eastern live on sunday and you can follow it on twitter. joining us at the head of the table, ahead of this historic event is greg tobin author of "the good pope, the making of a saint and the remaking of the church." help us, please, make the case for both of these men becoming saints. >> for both of these men, as was said in the lead-in, there really is an acknowledgeable historically, theologically and popularly that both of these men lived lives of sanctity or holiness. the fact that they served as popes and were so publicly visible for so many years adds to the popular understanding and support, i think, for the idea that they'd become saints.

john xxiii acknowledged as the good pope really from the moment he was elected. john paul ii, really a really brilliant theologian and someone who had a searing life through world war ii and the cold war. he was a young bishop of the second vatican counsel called by pope john xxiii. >> amazing. and one of the requirements for becoming a saint is having to have performing miracles. and john paul ii, his miracle involved a woman from costa rica. she saw him in a vision. and she was cured. tell us about the miracles and the role they play in establishing the criteria for sainthood. >> yes, the role of miracles is really a representation of what a saint is in terms of the community of saints who exist

and live on after death. and the fact they are actively engaged in communicating or mediating for people on earth who seek through them to have a closer relationship with god. in terms of healing and miracles for pope john xxiii, there was a nun healed of a disease, she almost died and she also claims to have had a vision of pope john xxiii and to have spoken to him after a piece of the bed sheet on which he died was placed on her abdomen. and, you know, there are these kind of connections between the living faithful people and those who are considered saints who have gone before, and who exist all the way back to the apostles or even the old testament. that's, you know, part of catholic belief. >> it's such a unique and

special thing. if you look at out of the 265 popes, only 78 of them have become saints. and typically, this is a pretty long process. right? they usually start this at least five years after the death of that person. but you look at john paul ii, who is less than ten years, not as typical. are there any concerns around either of these popes that history has not had enough time to judge them. >> in the case of john paul ii, there is some of that concern by people because he's such a contemporary figure. there are some controversial issues that cling to him that really haven't been resolved. in the case of john xxiii, 50 years exactly has passed since he died. and i think that people have long felt, you know, popularly felt that he deserved to be canonized, john xxiii. >> why did they move so fast with john paul? >> i think because there was

that immediately -- immediate popular outcry. for him and for mother teresa. and they've been on the same track. and really allowed for this to happen. it was a decision by john paul's immediate successor to allow the cause for canonization to go forward. and i think personally pope benedict felt this was something that deserved to be sort of taken on a separate track. >> it's not something you see as the new norm necessarily? >> i don't see that, no. >> what is the decision to move so fast say about the way the catholic church is moving on from the sex abuse scandals that occurred during john paul ii's reign? you mentioned controversy under him and something the church still working out. wouldn't the church be expected to take some more time to evaluate how that affected the church before deciding to canonize a man who had been pope through that? >> i don't claim to know exac y exactly, you know, the thinking that went into pushing it along so quickly.

but i think it would be more advisable to take a bit more time, yes. >> you said that benedict felt like it was time for john paul. is that part of his current role? or is that a hold over from before when he was pope? >> that's a holdover from before when he was pope. and he had the authority to move forward with the causes for canonization. and he felt very personally attached to pope john paul ii. he was really the number two guy for a long time under pope john paul ii. and they were very close, theologically and personally as friends. >> and greg, one of the very unique things for the ceremony is the fact we will have two popes in attendance, pope benedict and, of course, current pope francis. what is -- that dynamic is so unusual. >> very. >> what is the relationship like between the two of them? how are they sort of navigating these very uncharted waters? >> i really give them credit for doing a very good job in navigating this. it really hasn't -- it's been

more than -- it's been almost 600 years since there have been more than one living pope or former pope. so it's quite remarkable. >> so can you tell us a little bit about the legacy about john xxiii and the vatican counscil? is the way the church has changed as a result of his leadership? >> in a word, yes. he was such a surprise. his election was a surprise. the fact that the results of the council were a surprise. he died after the first session of the council. and his successor took over for the remaining sessions of the council. and then the implementation of the council. and pope john paul ii is credited by some and sort of criticized by others for how he handled that legacy, whether he slowed things down a little bit or really did support and fully

implement the council. >> yeah, i feel like the younger generation knows about pope john paul's legacy when it comes to pope john xxiii, someone you've written extensively about. help us understand him and his legacy. when you think about him, what comes to mind? >> what comes to mind, a very happy personality and a very legitimately holy person. from the time he was a kid, he was really destined to be a priest. he entered the seminary when he was only 12 years old. and he was ordained when he was only 22 years old, which is very young, especially these days. candidates are much, much older. he was sort of underestimated in his life in his career. he was a diplomat in far flung places, bulgaria, turkey during world war ii in a very difficult time. he played a huge role in saving tens of thousands of jews from the holocaust. he came into paris, france, after the nazi occupiers had been kicked out and played a

very strong role in soothing of the ruffles in the government as well as in the church for issues of potential collaboration with the nazis. then he came to -- back to italy, became patriarch of venice for a short time. and he was in his 60s when he received -- now his 70s when he received the red hat of the cardinal and almost 77 when he was elected. and people when they saw this image of this pope after his predecessor who was a very austere roman aristocrat, they were just astounded. who is this guy? and he immediately won their hearts. >> greg, thank you very much. >> very welcome. up next, the president looks to comfort south korea. but issues another staunch warning to russia. but there's some good news waiting for him back here at home. going to cycle around the globe as "the cycle" rolls on. it's friday, april 25.

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the president has arrived in south korea today for the second leg of his asia tour. where security and the recent ferry tragedy dominated the day's events. this morning, the president said the u.s. stands shoulder to shoulder with south korea in the face of north korean provocations. now, that reassurance amid warnings north korea's leader could order another nuclear test to coincide with the president's visit as a show of strength. president obama also led a moment of silence for the victims of the tragic ferry accident and offered items of remembrance, a flag that flew over the white house on the day of the disaster, and renewal, a

magnolia tree from the lawn of the white house. peace talks in ukraine continue to overshadow the president's trip. in a news conference this morning, he offered this new warning to russia. >> we'll continue to keep some arrows in our quiver in the event that we see further deterioration of the situation over the next several days or weeks. >> despite all the turmoil overseas, there seems to be some welcome news for the president waiting back home when it comes to midterms and health care law. more on that in a moment. but joining us now is the managing editor for thinkprogress.org. great to have you at the table. we've talked a lot about how the crisis in ukraine has overshadowed most of this trip. a trip that the president, i think, hoped would strengthen security and economic ties abroad. and as he arrives in north korea, now faced with that sad, you know, ferry accident as well as threat now from north korea.

how distracting is all of this in terms of actually getting something done? >> well, they've been trying to pivot to asia for years. for three years now he tried to focus on asia and canceled multiple trips. and now he's finally there and, yes, all of these events overshadow it. i think ultimately his message that america has the back of south korea if north korea becomes adepressive. that it views china as hostile in certain situations, i mean, that carries some currency. but certainly it's difficult to pivot to asia -- >> there's only so much you can do. >> when the world is kind of happening all around. >> yeah. one of the president's big goals for this trip has been negotiations over the transpacific partnership this trade between the u.s. and variety of asian countries. there was a comment between the japanese finance minister that he doesn't think there'll be motion on it until after the midterm elections. is this one of the rare issues where president obama might get more cooperation if congress shifts toward republicans in november? >> it seems to be that way.

but i wouldn't discount the opposition from republicans on this issue. yes, it's a big business priority and business republicans are behind it. but you look at the tea party faction. i mean, they wrote a letter some 30 house republicans saying, hey, look, this is a congressional issue, we don't want to give authority to the president on this. and they don't like some of those union provisions that democrats are trying to put in. so i think ultimately, it's hard to see how he gets this done either before midterms or after midterms. >> in the next segment, we'll talk more about john boehner and him crying about immigration. but if it the same sort of sentiment exists around obamacare, the ones saying, it's too hard, don't make me do it. 8 million people have signed up, isn't it time even iffer the red states to stand up and say, i stand with obamacare? >> well, they're trying to. they look at the numbers and that's good news for them. i think ultimately the more democrats run away from the law, the less popular it becomes. you voted for it.

you'll have to live with it. they're embracing the message, the law's okay. there are loopholes, problems we want to fix. let's focus on that. that polls well for them and ultimately helps push the law into, you know, this thing's not going away any time soon. >> right. >> and one area where red state dems have been more comfortable with the issue of medicaid expansion. which is popular especially a lot of the southern states where these red state democrats are running the population would disproportionately benefit. i was taking a look at the state of louisiana where she's been calling the lack of the medicaid expansion the bobby jindal gap. and i was looking a the the numbers there. to me, this is insane. louisiana could save potentially $134 million next year if they go forward with the expansion. they are literally spending money, $100 million to deny

242,000 louisianans' health insurance. this can't be sustainable for the long-term. certainly, eventually these states will have to go forward with the expansion, aren't they? >> i mean, i think so. you saw this with traditional medicaid. at first, states were very resistant, but ultimately, all embraced it. i think, you know, you get five, ten years, it's no longer obamacare, it's healthcare reform. it becomes very difficult to say we're not going to take any federal dollars, i think. >> yeah, and for red state dems, they are running on this issue this year. and this is an affirmative positive from the affordable care act. it's a wedge between democrats and republicans and something they feel comfortable talking about in this election year. >> it's really a lyndon johnson surge, i think this year that medicaid's back in the news. the expansion democrats are finally kind of pushing for. yes, mary landrieu. the very people supposed to benefit from reform, need reform because they're disproportionately sick.

if you're not going to help them, who are you going to help? it's good politics, good policy, i think. >> great points. do you want to do an impression of speaker boehner before you go? >> you don't want to see me cry on camera. >> thank you so much for being here. up next, more politics. what brought speaker boehner to tears? we will sort that out next. hey. i'm ted and this is rudy.

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now you could have done it twice. this is awkward. go to comcastbusiness.com/ checkyourspeed. if we can't offer faster speeds or save you money we'll give you $150. comcast business built for business. it's shaping up to be a week of wild weather in the central u.s. severe thunderstorms, hail, high winds and the possibility of tornadoes are being predicted for parts of texas, oklahoma, kansas and nebraska. the slow-moving storm system may continue into next week and we'll, of course, keep an eye on it. and football players at northwestern university are voting throughout today on whether to unionize. it's been a story we've been following closely on "the cycle," 76 football players are casting their votes by secret ballot. the results will not be known

until an appeal by the university is decided. and that could take months. colleges and universities across the country are paying close attention to the outcome, which could change the face of the multibillion dollar college sports industry. in a press conference this afternoon, the university maintained its position against unionizing. >> northwestern believes very strongly that our students, our students first and foremost, they are not employees, and we believe very strongly that their role here at the university is primarily students. >> and first, he headlines his own late night show, next he's named one of "time" magazine's 100 most influential people. now seth meyers has been tapped to host the prime time emmys. and nbc will broadcast live this august. and now a nomination for best actor in a comedy. it's john boehner. >> here's the attitude.

oh, don't make me do this! oh, this is too hard! oh! don't make me do this! oh, don't make me do this! oh, don't make me do this! >> stop the insanity! >> oh. >> that, of course, is speaker of the house john boehner yesterday, he was back in his home district in ohio mocking his republican colleagues over the reluctance to tackle immigration reform. he says we get elected to make choices, solve problems and it's remarkable to me how many of my colleagues just don't want to. they'll take the path of least resistance, i've had every brick and bat and arrow shot at me over this issue. i didn't say it was going to be easy. will he repeat the performance live on the house floor? let's spin. >> that was good, josh. >> thank you. >> i want to observe this isn't the first time that john boehner's contempt for the idiots he has to work with has -- remember this back in

november? >> are you kidding me? >> boehner talking about after he'd been pushed into a government shutdown he didn't want by conservatives trying to de-fund obamacare. saying we knew it was never going to work in the first place. >> right. >> in this instance, the winers saying, i don't want to do this. i'm actually sympathetic to them. i think immigration is absolutely a non-win issue for republicans in congress. there are so many issues on which republicans are unsalable to hispanic voters. and when you poll on economic issues and the whole gamut, it's not like republicans are going to win these groups over by agreeing to immigration and they will alienate their base. if i'm a republican in congress, i want to talk about this issue as little as possible. >> okay. but it's sort of like a gateway issue. remember when the republicans did their whole autopsy and said gay rights are a gateway issue. and look, the dynamics, the

senate has already passed immigration reform. the republicans in tough positions there, i mean, that's already done. the house, are they really afraid of losing the house? no. but the thing that i really want to point out here is john boehner's complaining about his colleagues whining and being afraid to take a tough position. john boehner could bring this bill to the floor of the house on monday. it is all on him. he is the reason we don't have immigration reform. easily 68 members of the senate voted for it. he is the only person standing in the way. he is the only one actually going, oh, it's so hard, i don't want to handle it. >> part of what you're referring to is that the republicans have been using white racial anxiety to bring home this base for decades and demonizing and demagoguing to bring that base home. so now that it's difficult to do a reachout to the future of america, the future tax base of america, the future entrepreneurs of america, the future consumers of america.

right, the future demographic dominant group of america. now that's hard, you're like, well, this is really difficult for them. that's not a fair issue. the chickens are coming home to roost. this is the only issue that republicans don't give big business whatever it wants. and now you see john boehner separated from his own caucus. they're afraid of the base on this issue. i understand on both sides there are issues they are afraid of, right? they want to avoid difficult votes, right? rather than being on the record for those things. but i don't have any sympathy for them demagoguing on this issue for so long and now being in this difficult position. >> i think it's a very interesting point, though, you brought up. and it makes me realize they're going to have to take risks. they'll might even have to risk losing seats to benefit the party as a whole. if they actually want to win a national election, they haven't won the popular vote, remember, since 1988. if they're thinking long-term, they're going to have to be willing to take those risks. i wish we saw the speaker in washington, d.c. you know, i think he's totally --

>> 2004. >> besides one time. >> yeah. >> since 1988. that's a bad situation to be in. >> that's right. >> but it'll be interesting to see if he brings this to washington, d.c. my guess is he probably won't bring it to this level. the response, though, will be fascinating. i think he's completely over it. i think he's to the point -- if he's to the point where he's throwing members of his caucus under the bus making fun of them, i think he's either not going to run for speakership again or office again. i want to give him a high five. give him a huge hug because he's doing the right thing speaking out. >> actually do something. now do something. actually do something. >> he could bring it to the floor. i don't want to give him credit just for whining and mocking and complaining when he could -- >> no, but this might lead him -- he's got to follow through. >> i don't think he has to. i think this is, a, it's noise being made for the business lobby and other groups within the republican party that want immigration reform. i think the other thing he wants to be able to bring it to the floor without his caucus getting mad at him.

>> well, now they're going to be upset with him. >> i want to ask you, though, you said you think this is smart politics for republicans. once these republican members of the house get through their primaries which is already happening, i mean, they're not -- most of them, the vast majority of them aren't actually worried about the general election. they are so safe in their gerrymander districts, if not now when? >> those are going to be over pretty soon. >> right, but there's another primary in 2016. the tea party has been long-lived. >> there's another primary every two years. >> which is why immigration reform is doomed politically. here's the thing, i think what abby's saying taking risks is right. i think there's been this temptation by the republican consultant class in washington to pick all the issues where they already disagreed with a lot of the republican base, social issues like gay marriage, issues like immigration and say the party needs to modernize on these. the thing that's a real road block for the party is the economic agenda, the core of the interests of that consultant class in washington. so if the republican party both

moved on immigration and moved on an economic agenda interesting to middle class. >> you mean a positive economic agenda fighting for people. i think you're exactly right on this. >> that could appeal to a broad, much less wide electorate. they're likely to both annoy their base and fail to appeal to new voters and be in an even worse position than they are right now. >> it's written on our currency, but when it comes to economic opportunity, we're more divided than ever. an eye-opening look at that. and still ahead, a backstage pass to the grand ole opry. you've never seen it like this before. we cycle on.

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which i think krystal has mentioned on the show once or twice, there's one thing becoming very clear in the conversation surrounding income inequality. inequality is not a natural economic occurrence. it's caused by our political choices. choices that include lowering taxes on the rich and de-regulating big business and crushing unions. but what are the impacts of inequality? how does it impact our lives? these questions are explored in a new book of essayed called "divided," where inequality and its impacts are discussed by an all-star list of thinkers including president obama, senator warren, paul krugman, friend of the show jared bernstein and david k. johnston also the book's editor and pulitzer prize-winning writer. i first heard about this book through a serialized essay in the boston review which was titled inequality kills which gripped me. i mean, once you read that, once you see that headline, you have

to read all the way through. does inequality lead to a shorter life for some of us? >> yes. it's very clear that in countries where we have less inequality, life spans are improo i improving at a much better rate than the united states. the university of washington today, i attended a lecture about this very point by the author of that chapter. inequality kills in youth, every day in america, 47 babies die who would be alive if we had the infant mortality of sweden and norway. and by the way, if we had the infant mortality of cuba, 15 babies a day would not die in the united states. that's how bad inequality is in this country. >> that is unbelievable. and david, there's a really compelling essay in here, too, called "wage theft" and it's about wage theft for those who aren't clear is essentially exactly what it sounds like. people working and not getting paid for the work that they do. i think folks would be surprised

how prevalent this practice is, especially among low-wage workers. and the point she makes in the piece is that when you don't have unions to serve as that protection, as that voice for people who are otherwise powerless, you end up with pervasive practices like wage theft and you end up with growing inequality. i think that piece, the role of unions is part of the conversation about inequality that we don't hear about that often. >> well, if you believe in market economics, you should believe in unions because they provide bargaining power. when the american government imposed a constitution on japan in 1945 after we defeated them, it included requiring unions, a provision that remains to this day and is one of the reasons japan has a stable economy. all of our european competitors have unions in germany, executives have unions. if you don't have unions, there's no bargaining power. and wage theft to many americans is like, what are you talking about? because they're not on what's called the primary labor market.

if you have a career, all of us on this show have a career, it's unheard of that someone would steal our wages. but for people who work in the secondary labor market, people who work jobs that they don't regularly hold, wage theft is rampant. and there have been some cases of big companies cheating workers out of their wages. >> people often talk about income inequality in the context of the political system, but over the last 30 years, we've also been seeing it in a lot of other advanced countries in places like germany and australia to the u.s. interestingly not in france, though. are there things we can learn from where other countries have done better and worse on this than us? policies? >> yes, and josh, i don't agree with you at all on the idea that the same pace. if you plot the 34 modern countries, most of them are down here in this zone, the u.s. is way up here. and only the uk is near us. clearly inequality is increasing. part of that is returns to people who have high value,

intellectual information because the world that we live in. but in very clear measure, this is mostly government policies. and as you know, i've documented extensively policies almost nobody knows about that take a little bit of money, 3 cents a day here, a dollar a week there, through these government policies and redistribute upward. and the news media pays almost no attention to these. there are no statistics on them. i've spent years of my life digging out of the record and showing how they operate. >> give us one quick example of that, david. >> sure. every time you put gas in your car, you are paying a tax that goes to the pipelines that ship the gasoline to where you are. except, pipelines are exempt from the corporate income tax, yet they still get to collect it. it's 3 cents a day for everybody in america. and at the end of the year, that's $3.4 billion transferred to the pipeline owners. >> huh. very interesting. wrote a piece in the book that stood out to me about the way we understand poverty. he writes, throughout our

history, poverty has usually been understood to be rooted in personal, moral failure, weakness of character and absence of a work ethic and disdain for the norms of society at large spread like a disease from person to person, from family to family. and, david, this made me think about the different ways we all think about poverty. you know, if you assume poor people are lazy, and i'm not saying i'm in that category at all, versus just being down on their luck, how does this change the way we look at putting forward policy? >> well, it causes us to excuse and look away from it. and i quote adam smith in the book on this point that we almost worship the rich and we want to stay away from people who are poor and bad disposition. if there are not jobs, and if government money moves jobs out to the suburbs away from the cities, then you're going to have these problems with employment. one of the things we did to japan was require a minimum income in japan. and if we did that, we would have a lot less social pathology.

by the way, many, many poor people work awful, terrible jobs at long hours that many people who have nice white collar jobs couldn't imagine holding. >> no, that's absolutely correct. the notion that the poor don't work as hard as those who are 300 times that rate is absurd. i don't think anyone's making that point but people of the world have made that point. but when we talk about this is a political issue in the wake of citizens united and the mccutchen decision where the wealthiest are having a greater impact with their speech, it seems this problem is only going to spiral further and further out of control. >> if we could bring the founders back, they would be astonished. john adams, our second president worried that a business aristocracy would arise, that it would persuade workers to do what they wanted for their benefit. if that isn't what we're seeing

today, i don't know what we're seeing. i've written extensively about what they wrote and in the papers at the time of the revolution and at the founding of this, the second american republic. >> david k. johnson, it's a great book. very interesting "divided." up next, an incredible backstage pass to an american musical institution, the grand ole opry on "the cycle." the performances, the stars, the moments from the musicians room you've never heard until now. abby wanted to hear brad paisley at this moment. >> i love brad paisley. salesperson #1: so, again, throwing in the $1,000 fuel reward card is really what makes it like two deals in one. salesperson #2: actually, getting a great car with 42 highway miles per gallon makes it like two deals in one. salesperson #1: point is there's never been a better time to buy a jetta tdi clean diesel. avo: during the first ever volkswagen tdi clean diesel event, get a great deal on a jetta tdi.

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♪ ♪ >> that is the amazing carrie underwood. just one of country's biggest stars who have taken the stage at the legendary grand ole opry in nashville. the opry just celebrated its 40th anniversary at its permanent home. and if you've ever been there, you know its magical, intimate feeling. but a new book called backstage at the grand ole opry takes that to a whole new level spilling

backstage stories of the most famous performers and sharing 250 exclusive pictures. the book is only available at opry.com. and joining us now are the book's co-authors who have a combined 30 years working backstage at the opry. what a cool job. and what makes this book so incredible are the stories. and i just love imagining these historic, amazing performers sort of running into each other backstage. and brenda, one of the great anecdotes here is about dolly parton and taylor swift. >> yep. that's right. two of country music's most iconic blonds and most successful and unique voices met for the first time backstage at the grand ole opry. it was a show and they both happened to be performing that night. and so behind closed doors meeting was arranged. and, though we don't really know what was said during their meeting, we do know it turned out well because taylor swift

was seen skipping down the hall and proclaiming, "i just met dolly parton." >> that is so unlike -- that's so unlike taylor swift to skip, though. i've never seen her skip before. totally kidding. dan, i'm very jealous of the years you guys have spent behind the scenes there. i'm a huge country fan, would die to go to the opry one day. but i feel like we're all missing out on something because the real show according to garth brooks happens behind the stage. you've spent so much time interacting with these artists and seeing what goes on. give us some of the juice. >> i mean, one of the most fun things about going backstage at the opry, what garth was getting at was hearing these great performers backstage, ready to go on, or maybe working with another artist deciding, hey, let's do this tonight. the opry features the new stars and future stars of country

music. you might see trisha yearwood backstage and stopping because she hears a different kind of sound coming from the -- it all begins with a song dressing room or what have you. >> i imagine it's this event that makes some of the performers the most nervous. >> yeah, absolutely. it's nothing for a newcomer to come to the opry and be nervous. that's expected. but a lot of veterans of the opry. that's the one place where she continues to get nervous. and she grew up at the opry. so for some, the butterflies never leave. >> yeah. >> brenda, i want to hear some real backstage dirt stuff. give me some bad boy stories. who got in a fight backstage? who tried to steal somebody else's girlfriend backstage? who got banned from the grand ole opry? >> well, yes, actually one of our current performers, current grand ole opry members was banned before he became a

member. and that derks bentley. he was actually working at a television channel that was right across the street from the grand ole opry house and used that as, you know, a reason to gain access backstage. >> oh. >> and he visited backstage a little more often than he probably should've. and actually, the management had to tell him, yeah, management had to tell him to kind of cool it. and, you know, fast forward a few years, a few hit songs and derks bentley is invited to become a member of the grand ole opry. so the night that he was inducted into the cast, he held up his member award and proudly proclaimed, you know, this is my lifetime backstage pass and you're not getting rid of me now. that's it. >> your book is keyed to the 40th anniversary of the grand ole opry and the current home. it's been a huge change in the industry, exciting and distressing things.

how has the grand ole opry changed over that period? >> well, i think the grand ole opry is really a reflection at all times of what might be happening in country music at that -- at that moment. of course,moment. of course, we're always going to celebrate country music's past and have some of the great artists that i grew up listening to on the show week in and week out. but the opry always maintains the relevance by welcoming the newest artist on the scenes to the stage as well. >> how did the grand ole opry become this iconic musical institution that we know and love today? >> well, you know, the grand ole opry has been on the air on wsm, 650 a.m. radio since 1925 and just started attracting, you know, country music artists from all over. and nashville turned to the center of country music. in the early days it was spread

out. chicago, and memphis and new orleans, but just the country music business became centered around the grand ole opry and the earliest publishing house and booking agencies all came out of the grand ole opry and wsn performers and employees. so that connection between the opry and the music business just keeps the grand ole opry in nashville, you know, the center of country music. what is it about the opry if you're not totally on the country bandwagon, what can it do to maybe bring you on board to country? >> well, one of the fun things that the opry does is showcase all these different types of country music. so if you're not the biggest fan of one person you might see, you

might be the next time around. we'll have 8 to 10 to 12 acts on any one single stage. it's always fun for me to note year in and year out half the people who come to the show say they're big country music fans. the other half say i'm here because i'm in nashville tennessee and i have to see the grand ole opry. >> absolutely. thank you both so much. and here's a little more of bad boy dierks bentley. ♪ ♪ [ female announcer ] who are we?

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turning dreamers into business owners. (mom) when our little girl was we got a subaru. it's where she said her first word. (little girl) no! saw her first day of school. (little girl) bye bye! made a best friend forever. the back seat of my subaru is where she grew up.

what? (announcer) the 2015 subaru forester (girl) what? (announcer) built to be there for your family. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. the problem is washington works for -- >> the people who pay for it. >> the big corporations. >> but we have to remember they have concentrated money and concentrated power on their side. and it shows up. it gives them great advantage. but we have on our side our voices and our votes. >> joining the congress is the most frustrating thing in the world because it doesn't do anything. >> no, no, no. >> that's how elizabeth warren still knows effective government can still affect politics. i titled this review alice in

crazyland, which is a phrase in the book that speaks to how she's a normal person, perhaps with the idealism we associate with young girls, and she's sucked down into the rabbit hole of politics, into the bizarro land called d.c., and she learns to make it through as things grow cure i don't say and cure i don't sayer. and she doesn't run. she says no, no, no. this can work. her conviction and resolve remain undimmed. so yes, there's an enemy. big banks have responded to deregulation by becoming predators, chewing on the bones of the weakest consumers and manipulating the system of the banking industry she said it was like fighting a mythical creature. cut off one head and two come back. she has to fight.

because she knows they're shouting about how inequality and a ribbed nation are tearing the nation apart. her research shows it's not the result of a character flaw. it's something any of us could fall into if we lose a job or spouse. this book was once titled "rigged." but that was dumped for a more optimistic one. she writes we can't bury our heads in the sand and pretend if big government disappears so will society's toughest problems. that's magical and dangerous thinking. instead of trying to starve government or drown it in the bathtub, we need to tackle our problems head on, and that will require better government. she's part of creating the better government by demanding our leaders do their best. in one gripping moment. she's a professor alone with the president asking her to set up

what would become the consumer financial bureau. she says no, if it's not a pit bull of a watchdog, nothing. the president bushes back for an hour, growing in frustration, late for other meetings. he says you're jamming me, elizabeth. final he he says sometimes you have to trust the president. we see she's an idealist in her dreams. but what will become of our political alice the more she stays in wonder land. at one point he says insiders have access and they understand one critical rule. i suspect she's signaling her willingness to break the unbreakable rules of crazy land. that does it for the cycle. "now with alex wagner" starts now.

cliven bundy may have been sidelined, but the fight against the federal government, it is spreading, and it's come to texas. it is friday, april 25th. and this is "now" live from texas southern university in houston. >> texas land grab. >> land grab. >> land grab. ♪ ♪ >> cliven bundy. >> hailed by conservatives as a hero for standing up to the federal government over land usage laws. >> this is a sovereign state. >> refusing to pay fees. >> they want total jurisdiction and authority. >> this guy didn't pay his taxes. so i was confused to why republicans were rallying around that in the first place. >> they're the enemy of he's big government. >> texas rangers are gearing up for a potential battle with the federal government. >> cliven bundy is a side