tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking breo. ask your doctor about b-r-e-o for copd. first prescription free at mybreo.com south rises again for democrats. the conventional wisdom was set. republicans were licking their chops and democrats were bracing for the worse. that was turned on its head this week after near misses in 2010 and 2012, republicans opened the 2014 election cycle in decent position to finally breakthrough and win back control of the senate. then came a round of polling that significantly raised the possibility that democrats could hold on after all and they might do it in one of the most

unlikely ways imaginable. republicans need six states if they are going to take back the majority and they are likely to win states in west virginia. what has made 2014 a promising year for republicans is they have juicy targets in the heart of the most republican-friendly region in the country. mark pryor in arkansas, mary landrieu in louisiana, kay hagan in north carolina. we found out this week that all three of these incumbents representing states that president obama lost in 2012 are more than holding their own so far. keizer family foundation poll shows pryor from arkansas is up by ten points over tom cotten. kay hagan is in a dead heat with

thom til lis. and mary landrieu has a solid lead. there's going to a runoff between the top two candidates, that one will get much closer. in kentucky the one state where the democrats have a chance to get mitch mcconnell in kentucky, we have a makings of a true tossup. this shows all these races across the south are very competitive. it may seem surprising that they could save democrats. for the last two generations, it's been the south that's been transferred. obama lost the deep south by huge margins, 20 points in arkansas and kentucky in to 12. obama's approval ratings are dismal. but they have done better than you might think in dixie southern democratic incumbents have won 77% of the time since

2000. when there's been open races republicans have been able to pick up seats. republicans focus in the south as across the country has been on health care, or as they are phrasing it, obamacare, obamacare, obamacare. three quarters of general election spots for house and senate races so far have attacked the affordable care act. here's this week's edition in louisiana from the conservative group americans for prosperity. >> i did two tours in iraq. i was able to get a a health care plan that worked for me. i get a letter from my insurance company saying my costs were going up because of obamacare and by the way, you should be happy about it. mary landrieu said obamacare is going to make things better. better, not for people like me. >> the koch brothers have sunk $35 million into bashing obamacare this year.

but it hasn't been as much of a slam dunk. it shows voters in these southern races are not big fans. people say they want to improve the law than throw it out. a republican from new orleans told "the new york times" "i'm a republican, but i'm tired of them saying repeal, repeal, repeal. they need to make it better." that provides the backdrop for mary landrieu saying, "it's a solid law that needs improvement. my opponent offers nothing but repeal. even with all the setbacks, we're seeing benefits for thousands of people in louisiana. the benefits people have received are worth fighting for." the politics on the affordable care act may not be as sure fire as republicans have been hoping and the south may not be as easy a target. as we see these competitive races heating up, what's behind

these democrats in the south? can they keep defying the political gravity of the region and why are republicans faultering. lessons to be applied to other contests around the country? joining me at the table we have susan page, the washington bureau chief for "usa today." ben jones, democrat. rob christian son, a columnist. and former democratic governor doug wilder. thank you for being here. e we knew that kentucky was going to be a close race. we had some signs that arkansas was in the same category. but the surprise category is the one that can save the democrats. are you surprised by the findings? are they sustainable? what is driving it in the south? >> one thing we should be caution about one set of polls that shows pryor up ten points.

i think it is clear that all these contests are competitive. and that we have six months to go. and i do think democrats who are not really e defending affordable care act by name, do you want to repeal or fix it. that may be a more successful argument with voter who is don't like the law even yet. >> that's -- we can put some stats on the screen. medicaid expansion, part of the affordable care act. it's the discretion of each state. here's polling with republican governor states where the medicaid expansion hasn't happened. do you want the medicaid expansion. it's popular in both states. both states that did not vote for president obama and here trying to capitalize on that, we're talking about one of the ads. here's an ad launched on radio against thom til lis, a likely republican nominee in north carolina. take those stats on the

affordable care act and medicaid expansion and listen to this. >> til lis has a proven record fighting against obamacare. >> so rob, you know north carolina politics. you know as well as anybody else. when you see that polling in your state, 54 to 36 support the medicaid expansion and you hear an ad like that, is there a sense right now among republicans, a sense in north carolina that republicans are finding out right now they are not quite on the right side of this issue like they thought they were? >> you're playing to a republican base in a primary which is conservative. you cannot possibly run too far to the right in a republican primary. tillis is essentially the

establishment candidate there. he's fighting off a republican insurgency from the tea party. his problem is propping up his credentials. he's running basically as far to the right as he can, which he has to do in the primary. that gives him problems in the general election when he can be painted as too far to the right. what he's doing now is going to the right, to the right, to the right to avoid. his problem is he has to get 40% or he gets into a runoff, that's the north carolina law. if he gets in a runoff, that's july 15th. middle of vacation, low turnout, low turnout, that favors activists. get activists that favors tea party candidates and that gives him problems. the one thing the republicans don't want is a tea party candidate going up against kay hagan. >> we'll talk about that in a little bit. i want to talk about that primary that he's facing.

i heard governor wilder, i heard you having a reaction there. curious to get your thoughts on that. >> i think the turnout is going to be most important. i was intrigued with your question that you asked of susan page as to why these seats are competitive and that's one reason. that is the turnout in recent years and the registration of african-americans. if you took those votes out of those states you speak of, you wouldn't have any close races. republicans would take them all. that's why the voting rights act has been so important. the affirmative decision is chilling. and that's why it's important for people to understand that election time is not the only time to be concerned about african-americans. you should be concerned after the fact in terms of why you're asking these people to vote and show what voting means to them and as a result of a fair piece

of the pie. >> actually you raise an interesting point. there was an interesting analysis of this of southern voting patterns by nate cohn this week. let's put the map on the screen. he looked at where obama won less than 20% of the white votes. heavily concentrated in the south. he defined as the deep south, louisiana, mississippi, south carolina, tennessee, arkansas, texas. if you can pick that deep south, obama got 16% of the white vote is what he estimates. ben jones, maybe i'll ask you about this. the strategy that governor wilder is talking about there, democrats recognizing how key african-americans are to winning senate races in the south. there's also a question of democratic support for the president and his agenda falling off the cliff with white voters down south. anything you could see them

doing maybe with the affordable care act, with the benefits of the affordable care act to bring those numbers up this year? >> i think governor wilder is absolutely right. and i think there is going to be a large turnout, even though this is a midterm. i hear the people presume that there's some reason black voters aren't going to vote and that's absurd. this is the most important election. but this will -- winning these races will justify and support president obama's agenda. that's what this is also about. otherwise he's a totally lined up president for the next two years. this is something people fought for a long time. and i think there will be a strong turnout. what we're seeing here is fascina fascinating. you see that people assume or that the south is solidly republican now. but i think there's been a high

water mark reached and that tide is receding. that's what we're seeing in these polls. people are tired of hearing the agenda of obamacare, obamacare, now it's out there, had some success, it is the law. people do want to strengthen it and fix the flaws, but they don't want to repeal. >> when you ask people about the individual components of the law, the individual components of the affordable care act, they poll very well. i'm noticing the strategy it seems of democrats who may not say obamacare in their ads, they may not say affordable care act, they may not use president obama's name, but they talk about the benefits lost if it's repealed. i wonder a former congressman, georgia is the site of another marquee senate race this year where democrats think with michelle none, they might have a chance of picking off a republican seat. if you were running in georgia this year in this climate, how

would you handle the issue of the affordable care act? would you embrace it head on? how should a democrat in georgia be handling this? >> what the polls show, that's what the people are saying. we want to keep it. we don't want to repeal it. a majority of the people in the south is saying this. we want to strengthen it it. we want to fix it and that's true of any gigantic piece of legislation. and millions of people have already signed up. so i'd say, let's fix this thing. it's a good thing. all gigantic thousands of pages, i want to thank the koch brothers for pouring that money into the southern economy. we need that. we hope they keep coming down and losing more races. >> there's some stimulus. we'll pick this up talking about

the south and the battle for control of the senate. we'll look closer at some of the individual races too. we'll pick it up after this. really... so our business can be on at&t's network for $175 dollars a month? yup. all five of you for $175. our clients need a lot of attention. there's unlimited talk and text. we're working deals all day. you get 10 gigabytes of data to share. what about expansion potential? add a line anytime for 15 bucks a month. low dues... great terms... let's close. new at&t mobile share value plans. our best value plans ever for business.

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you say you want to look a little closer at some of the senate races that the headline from the poll this week could save the senate for democrats unexpectedly. we started to talk about this earlier in north carolina. but there's a primary. so thom tillis is the candidate they would like to nominate o to run against kay hagan. the poll showed a dead heat between the two of them. there is this primary e he has to get through first. there's a head line from buzz feed. 13 nings you won't believe the man who could be the north carolina's next senator said. this is about someone named greg bran nan.

this is a taste in this primary. >> he believes in a socialist government. he plays class warfare. dictatorship what he's trying to do with the way he's pushing it forward how much faster he's pushing the aspect of the ndaa, the supreme court cases, obamacare. >> speaking about president obama there in case that wasn't clear from that quote, talk about this race. you said 40% to avoid a runoff. that's the initial goal. my question is we looked at 2010, 2012 and saw the tea party candidates who were prone to say outrageous things. we even saw in 2012 how democrats got smart in missouri and claire mccaskill get that nomination by ad buying. is that taking place?

are democrats doing anything to try to get this republican nomination? that would make a big difference. >> the answer is yes and yes. republicans are gotten smarter. you have some of the big groups like the chamber of commerce weighing in, nra weighing in for thom tillis. the establishment is concerned. he's gotten significant tea party support from rand paul. they are very concerned. they have seen the show before with other candidates and they don't want it to happen again. they think if branen is the nominee, hagan could be elected. we're seeing the same game plan as mccaskill. the majority leader running ads attacking tillis and attacking tillis on essentially a sex

scandal that doesn't involve him personally but his aids, which he fired and gave golden parachutes to. it's the sort of thing that might offend some of the voters. so even if it doesn't defeat tillis and nominate branen, it's designed to force the runoff. so the opposite are playing in republican primary. we have seen this before. this is a very old tactic. so it's an old tactic in politics. what's happening in the primary is a microcause kos m. so it's representing three

segments of the republican party. this is not the republican a team. there's no richard byrd or jesse helms. none of them are topnotch candidates. the reason tillis is having a hard time sealing the deal, he should be getting 40%. he's the majority leader, he led the legislature, which was moving the state's policies from a modern state to a conservative state. he should be very popular. he's not rusted by a lot of movement conservatives. there's been a number of ethical issues that have been raised. he's just had a difficult time. >> he's got the challenge of every establishment republican but he has to prove you can trust me. that's the challenge for him. >> governor wilder, from virginia, you have watched virginia change politically so much over the last generation. north carolina is sort of -- i

look at north carolina and see a state that's going through maybe 10 or 15 years later than virginia did a similar transformation. where north carolina is becoming a more competitive state. when you look at kay hagan and what she's up against in north carolina, let's say republicans get the candidate they want. it's a a dead even race. this could be the closest race in the country. what's the key for kay hagan to win in north carolina right now? >> first, i would agree with sus susan's analysis of these latest polls because that latest poll is a poll and we have seen how skewed these polls are sometimes, so i wouldn't take comfort in believing it is as tight as many people say. on the other hand, it's so important for the democratic candidate in these states that we have referenced to make certain that that vote turns out, particularly the minority and the women vote.

minorities are, women too, in many instances, turning out and the women are the most active voters around. they walk the walk, men do the talk. having said that, ms. hagan has to make sure she connects with the people to the extent they can identify with her. there's a perception and i have heard some of this from some of the people i have talked to in north carolina that it's not just a matter of obamacare, but where are you relative to other issues that reflect on what minority interests are. and i think it's most important that she would do that and she would emulate some of the things we have tried to do in virginia. it's interesting how mark rauner is running now and no one is talking about how endangered that seat is because he's done a good job of doing the kinds of things we're talking about.

and sat the same time, and i think you're right, if we were not ahead a little bit in terms of what other people have perceived the south to be, he would be in difficulty. he's not going to be in difficulty. he's going to win and he's going to win hand somely. >> you talk about turnout among african-american voters. it was 47%. that showsout difference. we have to squeeze a break in. i want to talk about the flip side. the southern seat that democrats could pick up. kentucky, mitch mcconnell, interesting numbers there. we'll talk about that after this. m training guys who leak a little, to guard their manhood with depend shields and guards. the discreet protection that's just for guys. now, it's your turn.

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south that we had polling for, three of them are democratic incumbents thought to be in danger. they could still lose, but they are very much in the game. mitch mcconnell in kentucky, you can see it right there. mcconnell leading his challenger 44 to 43%. this is going to be a very close race. the interesting part of this, though, is the poll iing in kentucky we showed earlier on medicaid expansion. you have a democratic governor right now who has aggressively implemented the medicaid expansion. we're talking about a state, kentucky, that voted for mitt romney by 20 something points. this is a state going even more republican. so the role, i look at this race and this is pivotal for senate control.

is there a chance that the experience with obamacare in that state is going to insulate grimes against some of the attacks that mitch mcconnell will be throwing against her. >> i think it's a really helpful situation and tells you how different could the midterms be in the federal exchange website had gone the way it's gone in kentucky. the governor credits he embraced it even though there was controversy. he got an exchange ha worked pretty well and people who don't like obamacare, they like kynect. i think that's helpful. i think it's helpful mitch mcconnell, a lot of people in kentucky are not totally familiar with her as a candidate, but they know him and he's built up a lot of baggage. >> we look at his electoral

history. in 2008 he nearly lost his seat. what do you think of the democrat's chances here? >> i think what's happening here is happening in all of these races. it might be dogs, but there are dogs. these democrats tend to be centrist. they are well known to the voirts. people have voted for her in statewide elections. they know her. they see them as problem solvers and not the boogy man and all that stuff. they are smarter than we give them credit for. these are independent people who are going to make an independent decision and beyond all the washington political ads and all that stuff are people and that's how people in kentucky are going to judge this thing, i think. and mcconnell is very

vulnerable. that fact is what's fascinating about the polls and about this discussion. >> and governor wilder, one thing that strikes me, some of these democratic candidates, you think about mary landrieu in louisiana who is embracing the affordable care act making this very much a part of her campaign. i have not heard grimes talk about the affordable care act at all. it seems like an issue she wants to keep on the side as much as she can. different state demographically. do you think that's the best strategy for her? >> i really don't know that's the best strategy. i'm not suggesting that it's the wrong strategy. but what i'm saying is that to the extent that steve beshear did what he did with medicaid expansion, got the populous to accept it and to agree with it, it's something she could show at

least a connection to. i think it would be a mistake for the democratic candidates to be perceived as running away from obama. that will not relate to the turnout in the african-american communities particularly because that would be seen as if you're running away on this, you might be running away from us on other things. she has to be careful. >> my thanks to doug wilder for joining us this morning. rob christian son, susan, we'll see you in the next hour. thank thanks to ben jones. a ground breaking election, the first of its kind ever held this week. it took place yesterday. talk about it, straight ahead. i grew up with three brothers,

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scholarship football players at northwestern university gathered to cast their ballots on a referendum on union representati representation, the first ever vote of its kind. the election is a result of organizing led by kain colter, who has been the team's quarterback for the past few seasons. he argued he and his fellow scholarship players aren't just student athletes and because they receive scholarships they are paid employees for a sport that's brought in $200 million in revenue over the past decade. that gives them the right to organize. last month a regional arm agreed with the players recognized that right no unionize. yesterday 76 northwestern scholarship football players gathered to vote on being able to bargain with the university when it comes to everything from health benefits, scholarships. votes are sealed and may be awhile before we learn the results. on thursday the national labor

relations board announced they would hear the university's aappeal of the ruling that set all this in motion. the athletes are not employees and don't have a right to organize. over the last month, players have been facing pressure from supporters of the unionization and school leaders who are against it. the players last week, their coach wrote in my heart i know the downside of joining a union is much bigger than the upside. you have nothing to gain by forming a union. "the new york times" reported that they gave players ipads. they were not related to the union decision and had been planning to hand them out for months any way. the president of the ncaa called the union "grossly inappropriate." the statement provided to our show, the chief legal officer said, "whatever issues one may have with college athletics u

turning student athletes into employees and changing the relationship between students and their yurts is certainly not the answer. for nearly three years, ncaa member schools have worked on specific proposals to support their success in the classroom, on the field and in life. the president of northwestern circulated a letter to other university presidents saying the university has a right to campaign against the union in order to encourage our athletes to vote no. what will these 18 to 22-year-olds decide? has kain colter's effort put pressure on the ncaa to improve their treatment of college players. i'm joined by a sports reporter. swin is a member of the university of connecticut national championship team and a gold medal winner. darnell is a former football player. and we have a college football

analyst and author. he joins us from charlotte. it's a good title. as the alum at this table, you were on the last rose bowl team almost 20 years ago. so you're still plugged into the northwestern community. i wonder obviously what you make of the question of unionization what being in the northwestern community has been like. what have you been hearing from alum alumni. what is going on in the northwestern community as all this has been taking place. i think the initial response for the community is good for us. we're proud of our guys, we want to make sure we create an environment that's in the interest of our student athletes. and then i think the fear kind of set in and the fear of what does this all mean, what's going to be the ramifications and i think the fear then started

swaying people to say we don't know what's going to happen, we don't -- it's uncertain. >> do you think that fear is justified? do you think there's a good reason? >> i don't think so. i don't think so. i think in the end, i think it's going to be more than unionization that's going to change this whole thing. it's also all the lawsuits that are happening. there's going to be interest groups that are going to happen. regardless of how they voted, there's going to be other universities that will jump on board. i think in the grand scheme of things, i think it's the right move. regardless of whether or not they say yes or no, it's not the point. the point is it brings attention. >> one of our enterprising producers e-mailed, tried all the players at the northwestern formula e-mail address and got a response from one of the player who voted yesterday asking how did you vote.

so collin ellis said he voted no. northwestern has treated me as family from day one and i truly believe they have had my best interest in mind. it was founded on creating change and turned into a northwestern vs. northwestern issue. while it could serve as a blueprint to adopt and create change within the ncaa i was personally not willing to risk all i have at northwestern for the potential for change within the ncaa. j jordan, in terms of the mechanics, the vote was going to be no. so it's still pending with the national labor relations board. the whole thing that set this in motion was a regional ruling. there's a question of how the players voted, but also the question of how the national labor relations board handles this. if they uphold their regional ruling, it opens it up to other

schoo schools. >> we started seeing other schools, big ten, more power than the other nonpower school. for me it's an issue -- this is to darnell's point, if you become a union, you start to lose that student athlete effect and become employees. that's what scares me. i believe this is going to be no, but i also believe that you mention the $200 million revenue, my question to the ncaa is why can't you maybe create some kind of thing where guys are getting medical bills taken care of and that's what the nfl has done. $765 million was considered a light amount, but nonetheless, a fund created for guys that have sustained injury so at least then after their football careers are over, regardless if they go to the nfl or not, they are going to be taken care of. i do believe this is going to be a no on the union. >> maybe you could take us

through -- we talk about the health care being one of the issues. i also heard scholarships. right now a lot of scholarships are year to year. they have the ability to revoke your scholarship after one year. the idea of making scholarships four years. you get the scholarship, you have four years of college covered. a lot of players say we want that to be uniform across the country. what are the major concerns you had and that players in general would have at college that could be address ed by a union? >> i think for me, i think a lot of what was said, this may be a no, but at the end of the day it's brought a voice to the table. and i think that the one thing for student athletes is that over the course of your career, you may have injuries. the ncaa have a mega phone. when they are talking about only one of how many go pro, eventually all these students have to get jobs, but you have back injuries, neck injuries, all these different things. no one is paying attention to

th that. you have the medical aspect of it. the next aspect is you have kids on campus. you see all these new buildings being put on campuses and coming along. you see jerseys with your number but not your name. so you're feeling like you're being used. that's the thing i want the ncaa to step up and say, you know what, we're going to take control of this conversation. we're going to be the advocates for change. i don't feel like they have done that. they have been dismissive and i know they can do better. the students wouldn't want to unionize if they had a board that was governing properly. >> paul, you live, work and breathe college football in the region of the country that lives, works and breathes college football in the south. the concerns you heard that swin talked about, long-term injuries, players who see the university making a fortune off them, you think of the conference down there, johnny manziel at texas a&m, what do

you think of a union to address the concerns since the ncaa hasn't stepped up? is the union the way to go? >> someone who was on college campuses in the '70s, i love what students are doing at northwestern. i think they are wrong, but i like the fact they have made the ncaa nervous and taken all the power. his response to this is embarrassing. the students have won though. they have gotten the attention of the adults in the room. they have a voice now whether this vote goes through or not, i don't think it will. there are so many issues, and i do a talk show that's predominantly in the south. people don't understand the issue, they just know they don't like unions. as the grandson of a union organizer a couple blocks away from where you folks are now, it pa pains me to go against them, but i think there are too many issues. the ncaa will not get it right because they have no power. what we're seeing now in college

sports are the commissioners take over. having spoken to some of them, they are listening to what's happening and they will react. i think they already have reacted. >> i want to pick up the point and get you to talk about what your specific concerns are with the union and also that broader discussion about, if these big five conferences are taking over now, maybe the ncaa rules will decline. what will happen? we'll pick that up after this. if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis, like me, and you're talking to your rheumatologist about a biologic... this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain. this is humira helping me lay the groundwork. this is humira helping to protect my joints

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[ barks ] [ chuckles ] i'd do anything to keep this guy happy and healthy. that's why i'm so excited about these new milk-bone brushing chews. whoa, i'm not the only one. it's a brilliant new way to take care of his teeth. clinically proven as effective as brushing. ok, here you go. have you ever seen a dog brush his own teeth? the twist and nub design cleans all the way down to the gum line, even reaching the back teeth. they taste like a treat, but they clean like a toothbrush. nothing says you care like a milk-bone brushing chew. [ barks ] student athletes don't have a seat at the table. the current model resembles a dictatorship where the ncaa places rules and regulations on students without their input or negotiation. >> as graduating quarterback kain colter speaking about the ncaa and his efforts to unionize. i want to pick up a point you

were making. you were talking about how you sympathize with the athletes and your family ties to unions, but what is the specific concerns you have of why you don't think the union is the right answer here? >> i'll try to give you a short answer. i think it's going to be very complicated. there are varied explanations from taxes to employment issues, but my biggest complaint here is the fact that it totally disrupts what we have in college athletics. i happen to think college football is the best sport in the country. i go to games every weekend. there was 100,000 people. i went to a game at northwestern that was a prime time game on abc that was one of the most watched games of the year when ohio state came there. this issue of giving to the players, i heard this debate with johnny manziel that he deserved something. students signed deals, they are one-year contracts, but everything is taken care of.

when you become employees, then you're responsible and you open pandora's box. >> curious what you make of what paul just said and if we're talking about a no boat and it doesn't happen elsewhere, but the pressure is increased on the conferences, what are the reforms that could come out of this? >> there's two things. one, basketball may be more popular for me. and two, i u don't think everything is covered. i don't think everything is covered. i was at the university of connecticut and for me, my mom was a single mom, but she got engaged. i asked my mom to not get married because i wanted the pell grant. training in the morning, school class, mandatory study hall, there's all these demands on students they cannot work and get money. so reforms that i would like to

see is how can you student athletes the ability to have a stipend of some sort, but also to be able to maybe put money away for them when they graduate if it's off their likeness or working. i don't think it's the ncaa. the commissionsers of the league have to be at the table, but the student's voice has to be there as well. >> i can see that happening. to go off that point, we had the fab five on our post live show a couple weeks ago. he mentioned and this is at michigan in the early '90s, he mentioned when he was at michigan, nike couldn't sell a shoe. they came in to michigan to say you guys wear this so we can sell it. they made the black socks popular, the long shorts. there's so many things that happen in the ncaa in terms of on the field, guys selling merchandise, we have seen what happened against ea sports, there's a lot of situations

where guys are making money for the university and don't see a dollar from it. swin just mentioned something so simple, getting a grant. we had derek anderson, yet he couldn't go home to see his family because he didn't have $200 for a bus ticket. >> university of connecticut the men's team won, he talked about he goes to bed hungry sometimes. the ncaa is changing that rule. do you think the response is going to come fast enough from any governing body to forg? >> i was really encouraged at how fast northwestern responded in the campaign against the union. and basically what that says is they are very nimble. in the short time they reached out to all the universities, it

went public, it was on the internet. they were out front. and again, this isn't about northwestern. my experience with northwestern was incredible. i have nothing but great experiences and they gave me an opportunity to be something to be sitting here today where people care about what i have to say. it's not about northwestern. i think northwestern, i had the opportunity to be there as a student athlete and as a regular student who now has $40,000 in loans and an academic adviser. i have been able to see northwestern through three different lenses. by and large, northwestern does things the right way. they do the best they can. a lot of the universities do it the right way. >> it's a question of the bigger system. that's one thing northwestern, if the vote fails, that's one thing it looks like they were going to appeal to, here, we're not them. we're northwestern. i want to thank paul finebalm

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to spend far more time if they were sentenced today for the same crime. this is simply not right. >> the old regime has its roots three decades ago back in the 1980s when the country was in the grips of a crack cocaine epidemic, when fear of violence spilled over into suburban america and volted crime to the top of the list when voters asked what the most important issue was. it was in june of 1986 that americans watched a basketball fee normal that was likened to michael jordan get picked in the draft to end up dead two days later, the culprit of his death, cocaine. it was a traumatizing event for a nation panicking about the rise in drug use. it only took a few months for them in congress with a new law

for stiff penalties. that's what the politics of drugs and crime were like back then. republicans pushing hard for laws while looking for any and every opening to point them as too soft or too lenient by going along with the new tough laws and proposing them. bill clinton who championed a federal three strikes and you're out law. a generation later, it's a d distant memory. crime has dropped. so the politics of drugs and crime are now changing. some very surprising ways. the announcement that holder made this week has to do with the linger effects of the anti-drug law passed in 1986 after the cocaine death. in 2010 president obama signed a new law that erased the five-year minimum for low level crack possession and reduced the

crack powder disparity. under the old law, you need ed o be in possession of 500 grams of cocaine to be charged with a felony. but the law only dealt with cases going forward. holder's announcement this week has to do with those still in prison now serving long sentences under that old 1986 law. the obama administration is saying if you're one of those inmates and served enough time, under the new law you might be eligible for release. this comes a few months after president obama himself commuted the sentences of eight men who fell exactly into that category that comes a year after holder said that low level, nonviolent drug offenders would no longer be charged with crimes that triggered mandatory sentences. steps like these would have produced serious political blowback, especially for a democratic president. what's so notable is there really hasn't been a loud outcry

from the right. republicans haven't seen any of this as a tool to scare voters about soft and weak the administration is, something they would have had no problem doing before. that's because the politics in drugs and crime are changing within the republican party. utah's mike lee who led a tea party uprising against a senator in 2010. it's mike lee who has teamed up with dick durbin, the second ranking democrat in the senate to sponsor the smart sentencing act which would cut sentences in half and make defendants ineligible to face minimums at all. it's another top republican, john cornyn, who is working with sheldon whitehouse on a bill that would make inmates eligible for early release if they complete a rehabilitation program. that bill passed the committee on a 15-2 vote earlier this

year. also rand paul teamed up with pat leahy on making it option for judges. the change on the right is driven by the huge financial burden that the harsh laws enacted over the last generation placed on the government. at the federal level incarceration costs $30,000 a year for one prisoner. if one quarter of the entire budget now goes to funding the federal prison system. at the state level, the strain is more pronounced. a bill is expected ob taken up soon. if you want to know how significantly the politics have been reshaped, consider this. there's as much concern about democrats sinking it as republicans. dick durbin, the democrat working with mike lee, explained it this way. "the ghost of willie horton has loomed over any conversation about sentencing reform for over 30 years." durbin's math is a little off.

willie horton was the convicted felon who was introduced to the nation by george bush's team. he was given a weekend furlough from a massachusetts prison and while on the furlough committed armed robbery and rape. it was the image of willie horton that they used to paint bush's opponent as soft on crime. and according to durbin, if democrats stand in the way of sentencing reform, it will be because some of them are still afraid the same thing could happen to them. here to talk about the changing politics is someone who knows that history very well. someone who lived that history. his name is michael dew caucus and he joins us now from boston. governor, i'm glad you're taking the time. on this issue of sentencing

reform, there's a lot of ambitious proposals on the table. there's a prospect of a major bill coming up and getting through the senate. i wonder what you make o of that from dick durbin who says the ghost of willie horton still haunts my colleagues. what do you think of that? >> it's probably true. on the other hand, there has been a change. it's thoroughly bipartisan. one of the state legislatures leading this effort is the texas legislature. so this is not a partisan thing. it's not an ideological thing. part of it is driven by the expensive incarceration here. you can't change the sentencing laws. what do we do with these folks who are drug offenders and what do we do with them when they get out? and we're doing many more effective things these days.

for example, drug courts. they are under strict supervision and the point of this is to have them deal with their addiction. that's what drives them to engage in that kind of activity. that's working. there are a variety of other things we are doing. when these folks are incarcerated, what happens to them while they are in jail? what are we doing with them? are we working on their addiction problems, are they getting their geds, prepare them for jobs so when they get out they can live responsible lives. we're not doing enough of that. but we're doing more than we used to. it's a combination of all these things which is driving down violent crime in the country and producing genuine bipartisan support along these kinds of lines and these kinds of proposals. >> i wonder about the shift when

it comes to crime. the political culture when you were running for president, and this stretched well into the 1990s. . this is a poll from 1994 that asked americans what is the most important issue facing the country. crime comes in at 26% in that poll. number one issue by far. and then you look 2013, gallop takes a poll again, crime and violence is down at 2%. drugs is at 1%. when you look at how a statistic like that shaped the political debate, it created such an urgency around crime and you look at where that number is now, did that have to happen? did that have to get down to this level to make a serious conversation politically possible? >> it certainly had to come down. you can't deal politically with this kind of a situation with people getting shot every day.

it was very violent in the '80s and '90s and much of it was drug driven. so the fact that different approaches to law enforcement, different approaches to what happens to people when they are sentenced to these kinds of crimes have made a difference. if we didn't have this level of crime i don't think you would have the kind of receptivity you have to these kinds of proposals these days. so there's no question that the effective work that our police, our prosecutors and in some cases our probation officials which has brought this down significantly really has contributed directly to this kind of reform. without it, i don't think we would see these kinds of proposals. >> give us a firsthand history of being a sort of leading

political figure, candidate for president. in this era we're talking about, an era of the crack cocaine epidemic where crime was the leading national concern, within the democratic party back then, what was the climate like? how much was the democratic party being driven back then by the fear of republicans saying, you know, soft on crime, too len yent. how much did that govern with the democratic party? >> it's always been a line of attack whether you're talking about crime here at home or what's going on in the world, democrats are soft on defense, democrats are soft on crime, we have heard that for a long time. i think what happened was that lots and lots of democrats started getting serious about crime, and we were. and point of fact, notwithstanding the crack epidemic, we were doing some

great things. i did a terrible job with the furlough issue. . when ichs running for the presidency, the most liberal program was the program in the reagan-bush federal prison system, and i never said that. but in any event, it was at that time, something we were all concerned about and i spent a lot of time as governor working on crime issues. even if i didn't explain that very effectively during the campaign. it wasn't as if we were i guess ignoring this, but it was tough. when you have the kind of violence which was taking place at the time, much of it drug driven, it shouldn't surprise us that people were scared. and when they are scared, we react. we react with extreme measures. >> that's sort of the story of that willie horton ad.

>> as a matter of fact, when i was defeated my first time for reelection by a conservative democrat, he was after me because i oppose mandatory sentences. so one of the things that ed king used against me in that democratic primary among democrats was the fact that i was soft on crime. now fortunately i turned around and beat him four years later, but this was a very, very tough and a very potent issue and you and i can say now this is a dumb reaction of mandatory sentences for this kind of thing, but when people are scared, we tend to do extreme things and we shouldn't be surprised in the '80s and '90s there were these kinds of reactions. the results are clear. i'm still not satisfied, however. that we're doing the kind of job while people are incarcerated

and preparing them for reentry, as we say. when they leave prisons. we should be doing a lot more in my judgment in those prisons. both with respect to drug addiction and the kind of education and job training we need not because we want to be nice to people. >> that's a point to that john cornyn has made. rehabilitation is a center of his bill. we have to take a break, but the governor will be staying us with. we'll bring a panel in to talk about the change in the politics of crime and what that could mean for sentencing reform after this. the conditions in new york state are great for business. new york is ranked #2 in the nation for new private sector job creation. and now it's even better because they've introduced startup new york - dozens of tax-free zones where businesses pay no taxes for ten years. you'll get a warm welcome in the new new york.

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comcast business built for business. it's time for elected officials to focus on solutions liex flexible sentencing guidelines. our goal must be a justice

system that avoids unnecessary incarceration and irresponsible spending. >> that's martin sheen from the west wing in a psa calling for passage of the smarter sentencing act. we'll pick up the conversation we just started. we have john malcolm, legal fellow at the heritage foundation center for legal and judicial studies. mary price, a counselor, and john stanton, buzz feed.com. you represent sort of what i see as a fascinating and significant change in our politics. you're a conservative at the heritage foundation. and you're looking at the sentencing laws and saying, yeah, this is -- let's reform them. three strikes and you're out era might have been painting with too big of brush there. >> i was a former prosecutor in

the justice department. drugs with bad. it's just really a question about whether they should be punished, but when it comes to mandatory sentences. it is my believe that the pendulum has swung too far. the bureau is 25% of the department's budget. it's projected to go to 30% in a couple years. federal prisons are 38% over capacity projected to go to 44% over capacity. that means less money for victim services. i think it's safe to say given tight budgetary times, we're not going to go on a building tour, so each one of the prison cells is valuable real estate. while i don't condone drug dealing, we have too many low level drug dealers.

drug dealers are over half the federal prison population and a quarter of those were street dealers. we have a lot of street dealers taking up prison cells for five years and ten years and 20 years and those are prison cells that are not available for people who, in my estimation, pose a far greater risk to public safety. >> you're talking about the financial aspect of this. the number of people incarcerated shs the cost that comes with that. when i listen to john cornyn, he stresses rehabilitation. it occurs to me in generating support for had on the right, there's a financial aspect of it, but there's -- the rehabilitation aspect appeals to the christian base of the republican party. is there buy in from them? his bill calls for nonprofit groups to be part of the rehabilitation. >> what i was referring to is front end sentencing, how long

are you going to put someone away? what they are talking about is, look, we have these people. 85% of them are going to be released into the community. what shape are they going to be in once they are released? do they have a chance of becoming productive members of society? so what their bill tries to do is encourage people not just to behave themselves while in prison, but to take affirmative steps to improve their lives. go to counselling, get job training skills and then if they are deemed to be, based on objective assessments, a low risk of threat to public safety and they have taken these affirmative steps to improve their lives, perhaps they dezer deserve a break and i agree with that pem. >> so mary, you two are allies. we're talking about what is going to happen in the senate and the durbin bill we're talking about -- both parties.

i mean you're talking about cutting minimums in half. there was a rand paul thing that would have given total discretion to judges. that doesn't seem to have the same kind of momentum. what would you like to see come out of the senate and what do you think might come out of the senate this year? >> i a plaud efforts about back end reform and taking steps in support k the steps to rehabilitation and reenter society. but we can't bail out fast enough. we have a prison crisis that john laid out very well with an overcrowding crisis that is presenting a public safety crisis. the leading edge of the numbers flowing into the federal bureau are those being convicted of mandatory sentences and sentences that are tied to them. we have to do something about sentencing. attorney general talked about sending too many people for too long for too little reason.

that too long period of time is a big factor in the prison crowding crisis we have right now. so i think that, yes, we need to talk about beginning to end, from the very beginning to the end of the problem that we have, but if we do not address the incoming, if we don't address the front end reform, we're not going to take the steps necessary to relieve this crisis and we'll have the problem that john laid out. we are taking dollars that ought to be spent on supporting victims and finding criminals and keeping our community safe. we're taking 1 out of every 4 dollars and using it to keep the prisons running. >> so we had a quote from dick durbin saying my party suffers from the fear of the ghost of willie horton. dianne feinstein, she said that the idea of reducing mandatory minimums, she's not sure.

we have been wrestling with it. so is that fear of willie horton syndrome real? how real is it among democrats? in terms of republicans saying, no, this is weak on crime. is there a chance there's going to be a backlash? >> i think in the senate, there's a greater chance to get something done. i think folks are clear indication of the democrats are looking at this as a trap and saying we don't want to fall into this. but i think that republicans in the senate seem to be moving in this general direction. i think the chairman said he's not going to do this. even if they do get it done in the senate, it's going to be a victory because the house is not going to take up anything. even if they were willing to, that's hardening positions and

right now we're stuck in the same. >> it's the same thing in washington where maybe will get through the senate. we have to squeeze a break in. john seems like he might disagree. we'll pick it up after this. omi. we can come back tomorrrow. and we promise to keep it that way. csx. how tomorrow moves. what a day. can't wait til tomorrow. carsthey're why we innovate. they're who we protect. they're why we make life less complicated. it's about people. we are volvo of sweden.

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we're raising the bar on flying and tomorrow we will up it yet again. so at the end. of the last segment, it was said that this particular pattern seems to be setting up that sentencing reform could get through the senate. then you're going to hit u a dead end in the house. and much more conservative body in general. john, you seem to be shaking your head at that. curious what you wanted to say. >> this is a tough vote. it's not just people are afraid of being labeled soft on crime. there's a fear if too many drug offenders are released who have a high rate of resit vating, we're going to have an uptick in crime.

there are republicans on that bill. it's gotten a number of co-sponsors. so it has a chance of passage. i have to say that the president just announced this initiative. a lot of what he seems to want to accomplish is to address the fact there were crack cocaine dealers sentenced under the old regime before the fair sentencing act of 2010. it would allow people who would have now been subjected to sentences to petition for a reduction in sentence. it would accomplish what the president wants to do. by once more taking action, picking up his phone and his pen, i think he's acted and what makes a tough vote pr conservatives tougher. >> do you agree with that? what do you see if the bill addresses the pre2010 people stuck in jail, what was the point of what the president did?

>> the clemency initiative is not limited to prisoners for crack cocaine. it's absolutely not the case that those are the only people who would benefit. there are many people in prison who are low level, nonviolent offenders who have served ten years for that offense and who today would have sentences shortened by operation of law who will watch the people sentence them and leave before they will ever have a chance to leave. that's an initiative that is somewhat parallel with the smarter sentencing act, but it's not completely covered by it. the second thing i want to say, there were two dry runs in 2007. sentences for crack were lowered two times. once at the direction of congress. and those changes were available to people who were serving crack cocaine sentences in prison at the time. 20,000 people to date have been

released from prison pursuant to those retroactivity decisions and we have not seen the crime wave that was predicted by the right and by republicans about this and the rates are not as high as for some other crimes. the rates for these people are tracking just about equal with people who would serve longer and what has been repudiated. >> i want to get to the governor from boston. as we said a few minutes ago, you experienced first hand the past of the politics and listening to this discussion here, i wonder, where do you think this is going? where do you think the idea is going this year and in the years ahead if nothing comes through congress this year? >> you got to remember one important thing. that is the vast majority of these folks who are convicted and incarcerated are doing so in

state systems. it has nothing to do with the federal systems. so it isn't just congress. a lot of it has to do what's going on at the state level in republican and democratic states. so these folks are moving. texas, as i pointed out, is one of the leaders. but i cannot emphasize enough that i hope we're not just talking about saying to folks, good luck, see you later, you're free. that's not going to work. i teach at ucla in the winter time. my colleague out there has done some very good work on this. and it involves some structured handling of this so folks that are not only engaged in drug crimes, but are addicted, are not being shown the door with a good luck and $50. it takes more than this and in those states that are doing

this, it's working quite effectively. so i think it's very important that we focus on that. it's not a wholesale exiting from prison systems. we have to do better than that. >> it's important point about the state level in texas is the ultimate example a bt how the politics has changed. rick perry, john cornyn, texas is one of the states. former democratic nominee is going to be sticking around with us. i want to thank john malcolm and mary price. john will also be sticking around. more next. don't worry! the united states postal service will get it there on time with priority mail flat rate shipping. our priority has always been saving the day.

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elizabeth warren is having a nationwide impact even out in california where an excerpt from her book has become an issue in the governor's race. a republican is seeking to

challenge jerry brown. in late 2008 he was overseeing a troubled assets relief program, more popular remembered as tarp. warren was chair of the panel. in her book, she accuses him of lying to her on negotiations for a multibillion bailout. he's made his experience running the tarp program a central component of his campaign and one of his senior advisers said warren's account is false and questioned her timing saying warren has had many opportunities to mention this before and hasn't. the fact that a senator is in the political waters in california is further testament to the force that elizabeth warren has become in american po politics and especially in the democratic party. a new republican anointed her as hillary clinton's nightmare. or insisted this week that she's

not running for president in 2016. everything you read about this tour is how elizabeth warren is not running for president. at the very least she's actively campaign figure r the ideas she wants represented, with or without her, in the next race for president to start building pressure now so if hillary clinton ends up in the white house, she will feel compelled to pursue a warren-like agenda. top donors will gather in chicago for a meeting of the democracy alliance. these donors could play an important role in determining whether the post barack obama democratic party embraces the rising tide or hues to a more centrist course. in other words, whether the hillary clinton wing or elizabeth warren wing will reign. a lot of the money she raised, the core is not aimed at big donors. railing against the political power of those with the biggest

checkbo checkbooks. >> what we have to remember is that they have concentrated money, concentrated power on their side and it shows up. it gives them great advantage. but what we have on our side, we are our voices and we have our votes. and as long as we stay active, as long as we stay engaged, we can win. >> joining the conversation, another well-known figure, governor michael dukakis. and john stanton is back as well. susan, i will start with you. just this last week you had a chance to spend time with elizabeth warren. i'm curious what your take away is about what she's trying to do with the book, what she's trying to do in politics and your impressions generally from spending that kind of time with her. >> the power in her appeal is she believes what she's saying. when you ask her a question, she's inclined to give you an

answer. so when i was interviewing her, i said should some bankers gone to jail in the aftermath of the financial meltdown? first she said these are complicated issues that are involved in the courts. then she stopped and said, no, wait, let me try that again, yes. >> so everybody raises the question, but i read somewhere that she said she's not running for president, why does she write a book that by the title and wording, is this the kind of book that a candidate would put out? >> i think she's not running for president. it's not surprising she put out a book and the desire she has to influence the debate. but i don't think she's ruling out the idea of running for higher office. she signed the letter urging hillary clinton to run. it's unlikely she challenges hillary clinton, but we have a lot of time until 2016. i think if hillary clinton didn't run, i would expect to

see elizabeth warren out there. >> we have already seen in the polls when she's included with hillary clinton now, hillary clinton wins big, but there's a big block for warren. john, what about elizabeth warren in the senate? it's only been about a year and a half. what is her reputation like there and how has that gone so far? >> her reputation is one of having built a very good pr machine. she's sort of created this bad problem for her in the senate because she's created such a huge profile for herself. what have you done? she hasn't really done that much in the senate but she's only been there a year and a half. she's created this perfect persona. there's a huge operation around her, which a lot of times it's unclear of how much she's involved in it and whether or not she's giving a blessing to push her as a potential rival so

there are some members who say u there she is. >> that's the idea, the clubby senate, the freshmen are supposed to be seen and not heard. it takes decades to build. if she convinced first herself and if she convinces the rest of the senate she's not running for senate is there a way for her to sort of become an effective member of the chamber? >> there is. there's the model of a ted kennedy where a liberal member comes in and finds a way to still work with people and get legislation done. my concern is given the current politics and the way that the relationships in the senate are working, she's more of a left version of a ted cruz who comes in and is going to be after very hard line position that's going to be difficult to find a common ground with republicans who are going to a more conservative side. i'm not sure she's the type of member that's going to have huge

success. >> governor, i wonder what you make of that. you have known her well. it does strike me that what susan is saying i definitely noticed about her. how clear and direct she can be. it's unusual in a politician and how clear it is on what she wants to accomplish. when you look at the slow-paced senate with all the traditions, is the senate a good match for her in terms of accomplishing something or is the benefit that she has a platform to get the ideas out? >> she is who she is. she's very genuine. but remember she succeeded a guy named kennedy, who was very effective but ted kennedy made no bones about where he stood on things and often broke with members of the senate including democrats. so she's following on what i think is a fairly familiar path.

she has remarkably good political instincts. i remember when i sat down with her at the beginning of the campaign and talked about how this had to be a large campaign, every precinct, and she did it. i had great grass roots organizations, but hers was the best i've ever seen and she gets it. i don't think there's anything unusual about this. she's not going to run for the presidency. she shouldn't in my opinion. she has a lot to contribute. and remember one other thing. when it comes to her effectiveness, she's already been very effective even before she got into the senate. the consumer protection protection agency was her creation. and she got it done. she's not just making speeches. she can be very effective and i think she's going to be an effective player in the senate. and i have e enormous respect for her. >> we're going to squeeze a break in.

what is next for elizabeth warren? what does she want to achieve with the book tour? we'll talk about that when we come back. what does an apron have to do with car insurance? an apron is hard work. an apron is pride in what you do. an apron is not quitting until you've made something a little better. what does an apron have to do with car insurance?

for us, everything.

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...all day relief. hmm. [bell ring] "roll sound!" "action!" i don't think this is really about me. i don't. i think this is about the ideas. i think that the moment has come. america's middle class has just been hammered for a generation now. and i don't mean just over one, it's been everywhere. >> senator elizabeth warren speaking with susan page, susan is here. you were tells us during the break that when you asked elizabeth warren what the most surprising thing to her about the senate, she gave you an interesting answer. >> she said there are lots of tools in the tool box. even at hearings when they have regulators in to testify, this is an area she has a strong

background in. she's pushed to take tougher steps than they might have been inclined to do. that's a little bit of an untold story of terms of what influence she's had already in the senate of lengislation in her name. but in the two years since he's been through, who has pushed through anything. >> anything that gets through the senate seems to die in the house so it's the story of washington right now. >> she also is becoming the voice for progressives in the senate and in washington in general. she has had that effect on the conversation. democrats are much more willing to talk about sort of progressive populistic kind of things and she has been one of the big proponents of that. and again in the senate she does play the opposite to, you know, ted cruz or some of the conservative people. a lot of democrats like that. they didn't really have somebody in the senate other than harry reid who just is sort of a puncher, but they didn't have somebody that would articulate these progressive ideas in a

combative i will fight back at you kind of way, which you've done. >> governor can you caudukakis, you don't think she should run for president. i think every democrat right now, every big-name democrat is waiting on hillary clinton and if she runs i'm not sure any of them will run against her. if hillary clinton doesn't run and you have elizabeth warren with this unique message, would you then tell her to take a look at it? >> well, running for the presidency is the toughest thing you'll ever do, steve. it's in a class by itself. i don't care how effective a governor you've been, how effective a senator you've been. and my own view is that at this point in her life she should be doing exactly what she's doing. by the way, the point you made or maybe susan made, very important. as a legislator, you just don't pass bills. you can have enormous influence on the bureaucracy, on the

regulators, on the folks that administer the law. she understands this, and she's already had great impact. so she's making her influence felt. she gets this. she's doing it. people respect her. i think to some extent, i'm not sure they fear her but they're certainly responsive to her. but that's her role at this point and it's a particularly effective role she could be playing. >> i want to thank massachusetts' michael dukakis, former governor and former presidential nominee for spending part of your morning with us. really appreciate it. so what do we know now that we didn't know last week? our answers are after this.

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time to find out what our guests know now they didn't know when the week began. susan, you lead it off. >> if you want to be a senator, act like a human being. here's what we learned this week from capital new york. one reason david paterson appointed kirsten gillibrand to

the u.s. senate seat was because she was kind to him when he got hammered on "saturday night live" so it's like your mother told you, you cannot overestimate the power of good manners. >> i wonder if it's being a really good human being or a really, really, really smart politician. john? >> i learned this week with the cliven bundy drama there are things politicians will never learn, one of them being when a guy gets surrounded by a bunch of militia guys, it's time to walk away as fast as you possibly can. one would have thought from the 1990s with all of the drama with the militias, that american politicians would have figured out that armed men railing against the government are generally not that great of an idea to associate with. >> american politicians and certain primetime cable hosts. i want to thank susan page and john stanton for being here this morning. thank you at home for joining us. what was once a bipartisan initiative is crumbling thanks to tea party initiative. why stopping common core is the

latest edition. coming up next is mhp with guest host jonathan capehart. the supreme court rules on affirmative action and millions are asking what happens next. stick around. and get $100 off for every year of safe driving. we put members first. join the nation. ♪ nationwide is on your side you're an emailing, texting, master of the digital universe. but do you protect yourself? ♪ apparently not. when you access everything, you give everyone access to everything about you. but that's ok. while you do your thing... [ alert rings ] we'll be here at lifelock, doing our thing. watching out for things your credit card alone can't. [ alert rings ] and relentlessly protecting your identity. get lifelock protection and live life free. [ alert rings ]

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and some eye problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking breo. ask your doctor about b-r-e-o for copd. first prescription free at mybreo.com this morning, my question, cliven bundy, you know we can hear you, right? plus the book making andrew sullivan so upset. the story that wasn't included and the political risk president obama is taking by reform a broken system. plus why students have the entire world of sports watching. good morning. i'm jonathan capehart in for melissa harris-perry. nerdland, the votes are in.