what president obama has to say about the racially charged comments allegedly made by the owner of the l.a. clippers. the racist remarks allegedly made by an nba owner that came to light yesterday have ignited a firestorm and fuelled national outrage. now this morning the outrage has gone international with president obama weighing in from malaysia a few hours ago casting the comments as part of america's fraught racial legacy of slavery and segregation against which he says we continue to struggle. more in a moment.

first the details. donald sterling for 30 plus years has owned one of the worst teams in the mean, the los angeles clippers. but they are not that bad now. the clippers are in the playoffs facing the golden state warriors. they lead the series 2-1 with game four set for this afternoon. yesterday tmz sports posted what it says is an audio recording of a conversation between sterling and his girlfriend. nbc news has not been able to authenticate the recording. this is what went online. >> it bothers me a lot that you want to broad are cast that you're associating with black people. do you have to? >> you associate with black people. >> i'm not you and you're not me. >> according to tmz, sterling was upset his african-american/mexican girlfriend posted a photo of herself with magic johnson which has been taken down. >> you can sleep with them, you

can bring them in, you can do whatever you want. the little i ask you is not to promote it on that -- and not to bring them to my games. >> magic johnson, hall-of-famer with the l.a. lakers responded that le will not attend any clippers game going forward as long as sterling owns the team. in a statement last night the clippers said the comments on the audio tape do not represent sterling's views and said they don't know if the recording has been altered. they point out the woman said to be on the recording is the defendant in a lawsuit brought by the family alleging she embezzleded more than $1.8 million and told sterling she would, quote, get even. the woman is challenging the lawsuit. doc rivers said his players considered boycotting the game but decided against it. sterling said he will not be in attendance this afternoon. >> it has an impact. you move on.

it upsets all of us. there is not one guy that's happy with the situation. >> before last night's grizzlies/thunder game adam silver said they find it disturbing and offensive and they plan to investigate. >> all members of the nba family should be afforded due process and a fair opportunity to present their side of any controversy. which is why i'm not yet prepared to discuss any potential sanctions against donald sterling. we will, however, move sbrord are theirly quickly in our investigation. >> if the tape is found to be authentic the possibility of some kind of suspension looms or maybe an aggressive attempt by silver to force him to sell the franchise . an x factor here is his fellow team owners. how much latitude will they give the commissioner to go of after

sterling if the tape authentic. if malaysia when asked to comment by chuck todd president obama expressed confidence in the nba and denounced the statements on the audiotape. >> when ignorant are folks want to advertise their ignorance you don't have to do anything. you just let testimony talk. that's what happened here. >> the president cast the comments in a larger historical context. >> the united states continues to wrestle with a legacy of race. slave erie and segregation. that's still there. the vestiges of discrimination. we have made enormous strides. but you're going to continue to see this percolate up every so often. >> joining me on the phone for more is nbc sports broadcaster bob costas. appreciate the time this morning. we know donald sterling will not

attend this afternoon when the clippers play. we know lebron james, the best player in basketball said yesterday there is no room for donald sterling in our league. we know the league as to go through a process here of authenticating the tape with a bunch of legal protocols that they have to go through. if the tape is authenticated. if we find out this is real, this is donald sterling can you game out what actions you expect that the nba commissioner might take is? >> what silver would want, and i haven't spoken with adam since the story broke yesterday. but he's an extremely measured, reasonable guy. he's not a guy who likes to grandstand. this is his first big public test since he succeeded david stern, i'm sure that what he pe fer is donald sterling be out of the league. what public opinion calls for, what even a majority -- an

overwhelming majority of people if the nba might hope is the outcome then comes up against whatever legal obstacles they might face. after all, sterling owns the team. whether they can force him to die vest himself of the team. he's in his early 8s in failing health. he wanted to pass ownership of the team to family members. whether or not they could force him to sell is another question. then you are get into an area not just of high-handed decrees that a commissioner would hand down. but one of the most important things a excision ner can do which is to exercise effective persuasion, to call donald sterling aside in private and say, look, we are not going to tie to embarrass you more than you have embarrassed yourself. please understand you have been in the league a long time. we have to say he's been a controversial and unruly owner who has a lot of demerits

against him. you have been in the league a long time. please consider the well-being of the league overall. are there can be no satisfactory outcome here except an abject, unequivocal apology made publically, not through a statement issued by your p.r. office, but by you personally standing if front of a microphone at a press conference making a statement. then you saying of your own accord after speaking with nba officials that you have decided that it is time not just to apologize but to sell the team. that's the outcome the league wants. how quickly they can effect it, i'm not sure. >> it's a tool that silver has here. we are trying to see how much latitude he has from the ownerers of the team. michael mccan for "sports illustrated" says he expects there will be resistance to the idea of a lengthy suspension because of the precedent.

you have mark cuban who tweeted when this this broke yesterday on twitter it's playoff time. no reason to talk about mig in the nba that does not relate to our mavs. he wanted no part of addressing it. i wonder if there is a par aall to baseball when marge shot served two suspensions. she was in poor health. she agreed to sell the team. is the threat of a suspension -- a long-material suspension a tool silver has? can he use are it as a lever against donald sterling? >> definitely. he definitely has the latitude to do that. a lengthy significant suspension along with a fine is definitely something he has the right to do. i expect that to happen unless he can sell the team outright and doesn't have to take that step. that he can do. kwo are think anything can stop him from doing that. >> finally, can you talk about

sterling as an owner? to me he's the longest tenured owner in the nba. he sort of represents this era in the nba when teams were -- the prebird, jordan, magic era when the teams were affordable. he bought testimony for are $12 million 35 years ago. >> now it would be closer to a billion. >> he can turn a tidy profit. he's mysterious. we don't know his exact age. there was a housing discrimination lawsuit where he was discriminating against african-americans. there was a discrimination suit filed by elgin baylor. it is one of the more controversial owners in all of team sports. >> yes. generally speaking he's been an unsuccessful owner, even a laughingstock in some respects. however in recent years the team has come together.

they have among the most appealing young stars in the predominantly african-american league. noting this shouldn't come as much of a surprise. the vast majority of players and stars in the league happen to be african-american. he has chris paul on his team, blake griffin. his coach is one of the most respected and successful coaches in the league. happens to be african-american, doc rivers. you have an internal problem there. the these guys are deeply uncomfortable with what happenedme happenedment. if they went with their gut there is a lot they would say now. however, they are also concerned with concentrating on the playoffs. as chris paul put it, the best thing we can do is do the best job we can do as a team, focus on what the team can achieve rath arer than let this distract us. when the clippers are eliminated from the playoffs or if they go

all the way and win the whole thing and when the season is over then i expect to see a lot of the players on the team speak very bluntly and very directly about how they feel about donald sterling and about how -- if and when they become free agents they would look to sign with some other team and prefer to be somewhere else unless and until someone other than donald sterling owns the clippers. >> turning now to a forler basketball star who played with the clippers or several seasons, charles smith is now president and ceo of the pro basketball alumni association. charles, you played for donald sterling's team. i'm curious what your interactions with him were like, your sense of him and when you see something like this all these years later is it surprising to you or were there hints in the dealings with him that, yeah, you're not surprised by this. >> if you look at my history when i left the clippers it's documented. it got to a point where i just

wanted to leave. i had are interactions with him. nothing along racial lines. but he could be difficult. there are a lot of players who would feel that way. the comments and sentiments made are of global proportion. just not with the players, the league and fans. this is bad for business. >> when you say a difficult owner, it wasn't necessarily racial comments. what kind of difficult owner was he then to deal with? >> you know, from a historical standpoint the clippers were with always last in doing things from an economic basis. the last to get a charter plane. the last to have an arena. the morning of oh you would find out where we were practicing. there were a lot of issues there. over the years and where they are today, i'm happy for the

players there now. it's one of the most relinebacker willy worst organizations in sports. compared to where they are today, i went to a game last year and i actually saw fans tr there from when i played. i'm happy where they are today. i played with doc on three different teams. he he's primed and understands the dynamic. he'll get the tale on track. this is not the time to boycott, picket or march. the players save their personal currency, refrain from comment. players are built for eliminating distractions to focus on the game. chris paul and the guys will do that. i look forward to them making it to the finals. >> you plplayed with doc rivers. he coached the celtics to the title. tell us about doc rivers as a

han , a leader and a coach. he's the guy leading the players through this now. >> we took utah into game five when that was the first time we went into the playoffs in 17 years. doc was on the team. we remembered the racial riotses in l.a. during that time. there were a lot of racist issues going on. doc is a grounded individual. he understands players. he understands race relations. he understands the business part of the game. i think he'll motivate his team. he'll eliminate distractions. the team will be focused and they will go out and play as if this never happened. he has the ability to motivate players and himself to do that. >> bob, when you look back at sort of the history of donald sterling's ownership of the team, i guess one of the things that stands out, we are talking about how historically futile the team was until the last few years. one of the things that you look

at the comments and say they are terrible comment s and everything. you say at the same time this is an owner hired one of the first african-american general managers in the nba. hired elgin baylor and kept him 22 years. it becomes in a way -- i don't want to say it excuses anything but it makes it more surprising. just giving his hiring history. >> not everything falls into place as a perfect example of what kind of guy donald sterling is, which is true of most people. there are things that would prove the point that seems to be out there now about donald sterling. there might be things that would mitigate the point. overall as an owner with the last few years being an exception and with the larry brown yearses being an

exception, overall his tenure as owner of the team has been awful. talking to people who worked within the front office there were often times they had a chance to make good trades, good draft picks and he vetoed it for financial reason ares or whatever quirky reasons. he's an in skros inscrutable ma. difficult to read. he's apparently quite ill. who knows what's motivating him. if it was just a spat between a man and his girlfriend or whatever their relationship is, and he was expressing concern or outrage about her associations with other people and about instagram pictures and who she brought to games but there was no racial element in it people

would say, oh, you know, it's just an old guy and his girlfriend and whatever. just another chapter in a goofy history. when you add the racial element to it then you have an entirely new situation. it's very difficult, impossible to reconcile these comments with this man owning an nba team. it would be difficult to reconcile with him owning a team 30 years ago, let alone now. it's impossible. i don't see how there can be a resolution to this where people within the league will be at all comfortable if sterling remains as the owner of the team. >> that's a question as well. if there is pressure from are the league, soft pressure, hard pressure for sterling to sell this, to divest in the off season. what happens next season? we talk about the resurgence in

fan interest or maybe for the first time ever there is fan interest many the l.a. clippers and nationally. they have been able the to sign free agent players they never would have done when you are there. happens if come next october or november even if he's suspended donald sterling still owns the team? what happens then? >> in dealing with the situation the players have very little power, if any at all, on this decision. this is put in the hands of the commissioner and owners. from a player perspective, the only thing they can do is from their personal preference. if they are a free agent they don't want to play for the club. i think mike woodson made the statement already that if this is true he would not want to coach the clippers. that's all you can potentially do fonow. as i mentioned, boycotting, picketing, players need to save their personal currency.

that's not the time for it. let's see what the commissioner does, what the owners do. this is not a simple slap on the wrist and take sensitivity courses. this is that needs to be addressed and a result has to come out. this the not just bad for african-americans. yes, the league is 85% african-american. this is bad for the owners, for the league, bad for the fans. more importantly, it's bad on a global level. the league has owners from russia. president obama is in malaysia. they have an owner from sou east asia, india. they look at our culture and race differently. it can impact business, period. this needs to be handled and dealt with permanently. >> two quick thoughts if i may. i think this part is encouraging. i'm not being naive. i'm not saying donald sterling is the only person who holds these views ta may come out in an unguarded moment.

more and more people like donald sterling are outliers. it's not just african-americans in the league it's everyone. i had dinner last night with an nba executive who happens to be white. he's outraged and concerned about this. people are appalled. people within the league are appalled. the nba has been a progressive league. virtually even involve had had this the league wants to put this behind them and thought it was behind them and has no place in the nba. i would slightly disagree with charles that while the nba players may have no direct power they have the power of influencing public opinion. perhaps post playoffs or after the clippers are eliminated from the playoffs, if it happens that way, a uniteded stand by the nba players association with several of the most prominent players in

the league -- past and present -- on camera, standing there. lebron, magic, whomever it might be, saying this ises t the kind thing the nba cannot tolerate. we as a group want something done about it. whether or not they have official power to influence the decision is one hinge. do they have the power of public pressure? i think they do. >> let me do a quick follow up to that. i mentioned marge back in the 1990s in baseball. i remember how long it took for that to play out. there were multiple suspensions, comments made by her. inflammatory comments about hitler, african-americans. it took years to get to the point where she sold the team. you are talking about potentially an expedited process here that leads to donald sterling being on his way out by the start of the 2014-15 season. are you looking at it now fairly confident that it can be achieved by the start of the next nba season?

>> i think it can be achieved. i think it's what adam silver would want to achieve. he has to pull together a coalition of players, of ownere, of administrators. i don't think it will be difficult. he has to the show a display of force where there is unanimity of opinion here. this is a reasonable thing to do. it's not a university lat are ral punishment of donald sterling that's uncalled for or arbitrary. thises crossed a line -- a bold red line that every sensible person the in sports, in america doesn't want to see crossed. >> i think we are actually in agreement. i am stating they refrain for now -- >> i agree. >> for now until a decision is made. if you look at the history of the league there have been

fines, suspensions and bans on players for different things they have done. there's a lot of money that's been spent on training players and being in situations like with donald sterling is in. i think they have to look at it from a public outcry and deals with situation. now you have an owner in a situation that players get into sometimes. >> the roles are a little bit reversed what happens with an owner. i want to say thanks to bob costas from nbc sports for joining us. also former l.a. clipper, new york knick charles smithment. changing gears pow. is having a woman on the ballot enough to overcome the gender gap? every day of the week.

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with the disproportionate number of men in elected office in this country politics can feel like a man's game. but is census tells a different story. in 2008 democrats running in house races won the women's vote by an aggregate of 14 points n. the same election they increased the house majority and took over control of the senate. the candidate at the top of the ticket, barack obama, won the white house. two years later in the 2010 midterms republicans won the women's vote by a point. it helped them to pick up more than five dozen house seats and win back the chamber. then the pendulum swung back in 2012 when mitt romney's binders full of women comment went viral and he lost among women by 12 points and lost the election. now with the midterms heating up we are seeing the competition

for women voters getting intense especially but not only in colorado. >> it comes down to respect for women and our looifs so cory gardener's history promoting harsh anti-abortion laws is disturbing. he sponsored a bill to make abortion a felony. she championed an eight-year crusade to outlaw birth control here in colorado. marx udall protects our right to choose. mark udall. in a word -- respect. >> i'm mark udall. i approved this this message. >> the new poll out in colorado this week shows the race is neck and neck. ux udall is up by just a point. this was a purple state. republicans have a real chance to pick up a senate seat this november. look below the numbers and you

will see gender gap. gardner at 1980s reagan levels with men. and udall is at obama levels with women. the numbers show how critical women voters are are to democrats trying to hold onto the senate. in colorado, and in other states. >> i terri lynn land. congress pan peters and his buddieses want you to believe i'm waging a war on women. really? think about that for a moment. i'm terri lynn land. i approve this message because as a woman i might know a little bit more about women than gary peter. >> that was republican terri lynn land in michigan fighting back against an ad in the state. huffington post pollster which averages the polls taken has

peters and land tied at 39% each. they are running for the seat now held by carl levin. in georgia there is a unique circumstance of karen handle. >> my opponents in the race have already generated headlines. that will play right into the hands of the democrats. i would love to see michelle nunn try to drop the war on oh women on me. >> is being a. wo herself enough to inoculate her from the war on women attack? in 2012 she was at the center of a fire storm over women's reproductive health when under her leadership the susan g.kohen cut off screening given to planned parenthood each year. they provide breast exams and

other cancer screening. the group gets lots of attention for providing abortions which is only 3% of their annual spending. there was a huge public backlash for cutting off funding. hande l resigned as a result. handel didn't make amends with the organization. in her book called "planned bullyhood." she called them a bunch of schoolyard thugs. this is the karen handel who says she's best suited oh oh to stand up to democrats saying the gop is waging a war on women. could she be right? we'll put forward women candidates be enough for republicans to win over more women or do the policies have to change? i want to bring in joan walsh from salon.com. kelly conley, a republican pollster, msnbc contributor victoria defrancisco soto and

pat schroeder, a democrat are from colorado. the state we began talking about there. pat, colorado, the poll told us this could be the tipping point when it comes to control of the senate. it was the tipping point state in 2012. no state was closer in 2012 in the obama/romney race. no state may be closer in this election. you look at the gender gap number the udall/gardner race and all the talk about 2014 is a midterm, turn out patterns favor republicans. the democratic base doesn't stay home. looks to me like colorado illustrates better how important it is among democrats to get women out to vote and get the margin as big as they can among will. >> i think you're right. but i think there is another thing about colorado. u darks all keeps explaining the differences it will help. in 1893 colorado was the first

state where men voted to give women the right the to vote. the first state in the union. it was the hen in a squen election. -- general election. it's been the fairness state. i don't think they like people over regulating. we have defeated the personhood amendment many times. his opponent has not been for for the fair pay act. when you put it together i don't think it will resonate with women. we'll see some of the men. i'm pleased udall is out there. his mother was a colorado may tif. she was a pilot. she went to the peace corps. udall are was raised by the right kind of mother and he's got the idea. it fit it is colorado model. >> when you're talking about the personhood amendment on the ballot in 2010 the republican running against uda, l supported

that. now running for the u.s. senate in colorado. now saying he understands what it would do. changes his position on it. as a republicans this is one if your party could pick off colorado that puts your party in a much better position to take back the senate. when you look at gender gap numbers and i look back and i compared it to the last competitive senate are lex in colorado, 2010 when bennett beat buck, a very close race. he did it with a 16-point margin among will. with a 17-point mar sequin here, it's got to concern you. where do you think it's coming from? >> the gender gap exists for many reasons. democrats have a natural advantage among female voters. men have a natural advantage among male voters. the issues feel and seem according to nbc's own polling a lot like 2010. spending, jobs, the economy, the crown joule ewel is the afforda

care act or obamacare. senator udall distanced himself from this in public comments. he's harsh on the president's promise to keep your health care if you like it. i think women in colorado like women across the country have a basket of issues, individuals, images and ideas they consider before they make a choice. if the war on oh women is going to be waged almost exclusively on abortion and contraception that the democratic party is narrow casting to women. we are ignoring what women say motivates them at the ballot are box. >> what i wonder about is the war on oh women was a heavy point of em ta sis in the 2012 the campaign. >> it's different. >> and the in 2013. it's clear to the democrats at least the first ad that udall goes up with focuses on this. >> what's he going to say?

obamacare is good for you? it was great? >> i would take issue with the idea that this is narrow casting about abortion and contraception. those issues matter. but what i see democrats doing which is important is really talking about women's issues as economic issues. >> absolutely. >> pushing for an increase in the minimum wage which would benefit women because they make up two-thirds of minimum wage workers. i never understand why republicans who oppose pay equity acts don't say, are rhett's coordinate, compromise on the minimum wage. >> pay equity blew up many the white house's face. they pay women less than men. >> this is where we want to blame donald sterling but we have to squeeze in a break. we'll be right back. [ female announcer ] who are we?

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to democratic strategy, victoria, with the first ad being run by the democrats stressing the war on women, trying to drive up the gender gap as much as they can. do you see it as a viable strategy for democrats in to 14? >> very much so. the issue of abortion rights, and contraception access is a gateway issue thoughs as a woman you may not be in favor of abortions in all circumstances you are going to tune out if you keep hearing that rhetoric against women attacking you. i liken it to immigration. immigrants vote on a bunch of stuff, not just immigration, but they hear that rhett are rick, anti-immigrant, illegal, and they tune out. they turn away from republicans. we'll see the same thing with democrats. also, remember, the republicans in 2012 tried that there is a war on women. fell on its face. there was a are great ad that

was put out. >> 12 million nationally running an abortion rights. she said she's pro life. and last week a poll showed she has an unfavorable rating. >> we are all pro life. >> there's that. >> we fought that for a long time that people who are anti-choice should be the ones -- >> anti-choice? pro life? >> the twist in 2014 from the republican standpoint is in 2012 the national ticket was romney/ryan. two guys. in a couple of races we see it in the ad we played from michigan. terri lynn land. handel saying nominate me. let them say war on women against me. that twist. do you think it helps? >> women see it as wovls in designer clothing. >> oh. >> we have had women run in

colorado trying to do that. people really reason. if they align themselves with the negative gateway conversation they are not going to buy into it. women are smarter than people think. the other problem is so many people now who have been so negative about abortions start defining contraceptives. they figure out the big ex pan sieve new thing going on. i think they are listening a lot closer. >> this is another blame donald sterling this. this conversation should have gone on much longer. >> we'll be right back. >> we'll pick it up another time. thanks to pat schroeder, joan walsh, see you next hour. thanks to kellyanne conway. we'll is you back. how one bill board could change political ads forever. that's next. are you ready grandma? just a second, sweetie.

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this is worth talking about. senator bob dole standing by in his headquarters. anything you want to say to h. >> just wish him well and meet him in the south. >> anything you want to say to the president? >> yeah. stop lying about my record. >> that was bob dole as his presidential dreams fell apart when he lost the primary to george bush and lashed out this the late night television interview with tom brokaw. bush's victory was fuelled by a late batch of attack ads that called dole a tax hire hiker. dole thought the ads were lies. was he right? who decides? that's the basic question at a heart of a case before the supreme court when the justices heard arguments about whether the states can make it a crime to lie about candidates during a

campaign. about a third of the states have laws on the books already that make certain campaign lies illegal. steve dryhouse is a former moderate democrat from cincinnati. the apt abortion group the susan b. anthony list wanted to target him for voting yes on the affordable care act. part of a national campaign the group was launching against democrats. it was supposed to read shame on steve driehaus. the only problem was he described himself as pro life. one of several democratic numbers who tied their support to president obama taking specific action to keep abortion coverage out. >> the president will release a sweeping executive order. grounded in current law. based in congressional intent. clarifying for all that this health bill doesn't provide

public funds for abortion. >> when the susan b. anthony went to get the billboard up drieit is haus filed a complaint because there is a law there against deliberate lies in a political campaign. the bill board never went up because the owner wouldn't put it up once driehaus threatened legal action so the susan b. anthony list says it is unconstitutional. they have the support of the aclu. this is a broader question not just about ohio but truth in political campaigns. do candidates hs v a first amendment right to lie if they do how can the public find out what is true and what isn't. if they don't who makes the call whether it's true or false. the line between the two isn't as clear as you would think. joining me to discuss it, we have ann lewis for president bill clinton. the national media strategist worked for years with joe bide

and others. political media consultant who worked on campaigns. somebody putting messages out into the media sphere. my reaction when i see the laws is that's a great idea. great if there is accountability. then i stop and think about it. it falls back to two things. how do you tell the difference between the truth and a lie in a campaign? campaigns by nature exaggerate. positive things are exaggerated. negative things about the opponent are exaggerateded. when you see the laws do you like them? >> there ought to be accountability, a way of saying you can't just blatantly lie. especially now in a citizens united world where so much money is put in by undisclosed, unregulated donors.

there is no vehicle for stopping them. >> the vehicle, the two i see if you don't have a law like this would be the outrage of the free press. if something totally crosses the line goes up there will be so much noise potentially generated by the free press that it counters it. you have to make a defamation lawsuit instead of having the law. >> in terms of the broadcast when an i.e. goes on and does the blatant lie. >> independent [ speaking french ] . >> we have resource. we have done it over and over again. we go to the broadcast stations. we say this is a lie, have the lawyers do it. they take it off the air if you can prove it's a lie. >> how tough is it to prove? so many times it's gray. >> there are gray areas. if there are gray areas i don't think it necessarily qualifies

as a terrible lie. if it's a gray area. if i say candidate a is the best candidate for governor and the opponent says, well, that's not true. truth, you know, or fact daniel patrick moynahan said a great thing one time. he said everyone is entitled to their own opinions. they are not entitled to their own facts. i think that governs. >> p i think david made a good point. at first my heart flutters when i hear the words free speech. that's where i am emotionally. i believe the antidote should be more speech. this is a reality in the world we live in. political speech isn't free. if somebody spends 10 million dollars in ads against me, are you saying my only recourse is i could raise another $10 million of my own to push back?

that tilts the plague field further. there needs to be balance and accountability. the toughest question for me is who getses to decide? >> there is not a right to lie in this country. there shouldn't be. >> there is a history of it. going back to our founding fathers is where mud slinging started. we don't give voters credit. the voters can determine what's true and what's a lie. we have thankfully a proliferation of the fact checking. personally i would rather err on the side of free speech. >> in honor of donald sterling and the nba the shot clock is expired. i want to thank dave heller, victoria, i want to have you back to talk more. we'll be right back after this. dad, why are you getting that? is there a prize in there?

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every once in a while a poll make yours jaw drop. this week brought one from the state of new york where governor andrew cuomo is running for re-election. the race hasn't attracted much national attention because new york is a blue state, cuomo is a democrat with strong ratings. the poll that came out shows he's still in very good position to win a second term. in a head to head match-up with his probable opponent cuomo is ahead 58-28%. he's in good shape to win. no surprise there. here is the jaw-dropping part. the same poll add add twist. they also asked what voters would do if they had a third choice. if it was cuomo, his republican opponent and a candidate from the porking families party. a liberal party that has its own ballot slot in new york. the new match-up when they polled that, cuomo 39%.

his republican opponent 24% in the unnamed working parties can data at 24%. when voterses are offered an alternative cuomo support drops by almost 20 points. suddenly he's well under 50% and the lead is just 15 points. this isn't a totally fair measure since voters are being asked about a generic working families candidate, not a fame name. it's not clear the working families party will nominate a candidate. new york allows electoral fusion. different parties can nominate the same party were the same office. same with cuomo. he was also offered the working family party's ballot line. they may end up giving him the ballot line again this year. the bottom line is the poll practically screams out that andrew cuomo as a problem with the left. with liberals. with the party base. the poll shows a lot of democrats will vote for cuomo if

his only opponent is a republican but they will do it holding their noses. the if there is a liberal alternative on the ballot they will be tempted to switch allegiance. this is startling and caught the national media's attention. cuomo as a problem with liberals. that's what the post declared. it's more startling when you learn he's the son of mario cuomo. liberals begged and pleaded with him to run for president. an electrifying speech at the democratic convention in 1984 that made it synonymous with liberalism. >> for nearly 50 year ares. we carry them all to new levels of comfort and security and dignity. even a affluence. some of fuss this room today are here only because this nation had that kind of confidence. it would be wrong to forget that. >> how did cuomo get in the

squam? when new york city's new mayor bill deblasio asked them to pay for universal prekindergarten cuomo did find another way to fund the prek pam. when the critic of the charter school movement got into it he had a charter school rally in albany. he angered public employee unions over pensions and budget cuts. he's shown conservative instincts on fiscal issues. meanwhile he's pressed a liberal agenda on the cultural front which cuomo pointed to when asked about trouble on the left. marriage equality, safe guns. so we have a phenomenal record of accomplishment. does that mean we have done everything we would like to do? no. what makes it interesting is andrew cuomo has national ambitions. he'd like to be president. if hillary clinton runs in 2016 he's probably boxed out. if not, there is almost no one

who thinks he would pass up the race are. why, if he wants to be a national democratic leader, has hen eh done so hutch to alienate the party base? here's a thought. maybe he's stuck in the 1990s. he watched his father mario, probably the most famous liberal in america at the time get swallowed up in the republican revolution of 1994 , losing his political career as voters even in blue state new york rejected the liberalism that was associated with the quo moe name. andrew ended up in the clinton administration becoming hud secretary and bill clinton became a political mentor to him so andrew watched as bill clinton recovered from the 1994 debacle by sifting to the center. remember triangulation? pursuing an agenda that angered the party's liberal base at times. maybe living through that trauma convinced cuomo that pursuing a full scale liberal are agenda would be harmful to his political health. that's just a theory. you don't have to get inside cuomo's head to recognize that

in many ways he's the present day embodiment of clintonism. his story is a national story. a story about how much the democratic party has changed. how much it's changing. how it's not just cultural liberalism but economic liberalism that's fuelling the party base. is cuomo a cautionary tale for other ambitious democrats for whichever democrats end up running for president in 2016? here to discuss it we have anne lewis, former director of communications for bill clinton. karen finney joins the table. ozzy pab ra from capital new york and joan walsh of salon joins us again. ozzy, you are mr. new york politics. a little bit of a situation here. the working partieses don't

exist in every state. here in new york it's allowed to give the party line if the democrat wants to. we are seeing a poll that says, wow, generic working families. they could drag cuomo way down. is the expectation of the party going to run to cuomo this year? >> they put out an e-mail that they have a deadline the end of may. the big decision. it was telegraphing in explicit terms ta there are certain things that there will be a final deadline to make the decision. the poll you mentioned is all but begging them to go forward and do this. there is complications for doing that. it's not a race that they have an option of sitting out. if they have to pick a candidate that gets 50 on the line or they will lose their ballot position. they have to have someone.

it's going to be cuomo or someone who runs against cuomo. in the poll he drops ten points at least in every demographic category across the boardment it signals, like you said, a problem on the left. the problem is the wfp is made of unions and activists. the unions are a group that's much more -- has more practical concerns. if a governor can address those. contracts or change in work rules, that very are key component of the working families party may not be behind them if they go with someone else. >> by the way, is it your sense when the poll came out because it squen rated national attention, was this a surprise to the cuomo and his people is this did they think they have a problem this big? was this a revelation to them? >> they have seen occupy wall street. the rise of bill de blasio. they have seen elizabeth warren. they cannot have been surprise ared that this would happen.

what's surprising them is the working families party is rising the temperature on what hay want. they want campaign finance reform. specifically not a broad reform or the whole thing, they want matching funds. people who run for public office, get public money in order to run. they are not demanding they turn off the spigot of the llc loophole. they are not talking about greater enforcement of the current rules or beefing up the agency that's going to oversee this. they want more money in the system that would help them get members into office. >> they want more public funding. what do you make of this? you have been watching the cuomo name. hear cuomo and first you think liberal, democrat, mario cuomo, 1984. look at how andrew governed the state. it's a great psychological mystery. it also seems to be a cautionary tale for democrats nationally.

>> i was not surprised by the washington post story. cuomo a campaigned as a progressive, a liberal on things like raising the minimum wage. things like marriage equality. things like guns. things like ethics. he delivered on some of them early on but over the last couple of months has backed away. campaign finance reform is one where progressives were disappointed in him. they thought new york would be a place where there would be a great model to say here is the agenda alive in the state. he backed away from things. i don't think they recognize the damage done. in new york it was a specific case with the working families party. the dynamics may work out they can't run are somebody else. it's done damage to him

nationally. if he were the to try to run for president in the event that hillary doesn't run, i think he'll are have more trouble with progressives because they feel he made promises and didn't keep them. that's worse than not doing it. >> you were up close and personal for the clinton years. cuomo was there at the same time. do you see what we talked about there -- the idea of maybe the politics of the '90s, what democrats had to do to survive. maybe different than it was today. cuomo didn't get the memo. >> first, speak up for andrew cuomo. go back to what you showed. we get marriage equality in, no. this isn't a nervous, hold back position. that's a big deal about human rights. new york is one of the leaders in the state. he got gun safety legislation done. this year in the budget they did get -- new york city gets prekindergarten money. again, i see on a number of important progressive goals a guy who is trying to achieve

that. and at the same time rebuild an economy and look at his attention to upstate new york which needs that help. i think, okay, this may be the wrong person to quote for these purposes. i think it was reagan who said if you are with me 80% of the time and against me 20% of the time. >> i think andrew quo moe was 80% at least progressive. >> he's 100% progressive on social issues. >> it's on the economic issues that he's not great. bordering on bad. he cut business taxes. he wanted the so-called millionaires tax to expire. they cut a deal. there was a compromise. in the end the top tax rate is lower than before. he's been wishy washy on the minimum wage. >> property tax. >> index that. lowered property taxes. i think the taxation issues, particularly the estate tax. lowering the estate tax.

this is something with increasing attention among progressives. we have let inherited wealth get out of control in the country. it's under mining our democracy. on this pack saj of issues he's terrible. this is a wake-up call to him and the national party. >> it's striking, too. the marriage equality is interesting to me as well. it's a major accomplishment. i don't want to diminish it >> at all. >> it's the first thing cuomo will point to when asked about his liberal credentials. i remember how he got it through. he was able to work with republican financial leader. big pocketed republicans. in new york, a lot of the rich republicans were socially lib are ral so he worked with them. the criticism from the left has been tuck work with them. you are also working with them. we have to geez in a break. i want to talk about the lessons this has again broadly for national democrats, for the

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we are talking about how governor of new york andrew cuomo has incredible problems with the base of his own party. getting to a proeder discussion about where the democratic party is going. to refresh, we can put this on screen. this poll came out this week. in a head to head race with likely republican challenger cuomo is ahead by 30 points. not much of a headline there. at a worker families party, the liberal third party cuomo is down 19 points. the working families candidate is up to 24. again, cuomo still in decent shape but that becomes a humiliating number for a democrat in a situation like that.

what struck me is bill deblas is a leading progressive figure and clashed immediately with andrew cuomo. it seems like my sense is deblas. >> he wasn't seen as a new york city liberal democrat. if you're thinking about iowa, ohio, and 2016 it may not be a bad thing. if he gets through re-election it's a problem. one thing bill deblas said at the convention hosted by al sharpton, he said you cannot have justice if it's only social issues. you need economic issues. he linked them together and said you need them both to happen. what cuomo has been trying to do

is advance socially progressive policies but hold back on economic policies. bill de blasio made it clear you can't do that. >> it looks like he wants to do a chris christie strategy. with his re-election where he runs up the score where he's a dominant figure. he dominates the race. his base is solid. he reaches out to independents for whatever his national ambitions might be. that's the other thing. he's got a national calculus. he can get re-elected. is it more important to get re-elected with moderates and some republicans or do i need to be overwhelming with democrats and add the coalition in later. i think this is making it difficult for him to win overwhelmingly. >> that's a difference from the clinton era. the energy at the grassroots level in the democratic party now seems more mobilized, more focused on issues of inequality,

economic issues than 20 years ago. you could talk about elizabeth warren. that seems to be a shift in the democratic party. >> joan gave the word the chris christie strategy a positive aspect. >> i like it. >> a lot more concerned. look at national democrats. we are talking about race, the minimum wage. we are talking about equal pay. it is very much about the kitchen table economic issues. i appreciate it. for good reason that's where the energy is. i'm going back to new york state to say the energy is not a battle. for me the battle is not how much do you raise taxes. what do you do with the revenue. how is it possible for everybody to do better? what i see from a distance is more attention on up state

places that are struggling economically. trying to get jobs. leading with that rath arer than leading with raises taxes. >> karen, how do you look at it? >> with with quo moe, what expectations did you create and how do you make sure your rhetoric matches the expectations you created? >> nothing wrong with wanting to ib vest up state. the expectation you would do liberal, progressive things that are now on the back burner. you have to talk about it and explain here is the story and why i'm doing it. the whole issue of this can and equality has become something nationalized quite well. we talk about health care, the medicaid expansion. we talk about equal pay and the min wage. those economic issues are

critical. again, if he were to run for national office you have to have a good story to talk about with the progressive base, particularly to get through a primary. iowa, new hampshire, ohio. you want to appeal to moderate ares. the base of the party is a lot more active in many ways than it was. >> does that say something about the fact that in the clinton yearses it was a revolution that clinton could get re-elected. now democrats look at this and say five of the past six they have won the popular vote. the numbers are on our side. i get a sense that, hey, we can be more bold now. we don't have to make the concessions. >> i think so. i think the democrats -- progressive democrats have the

feeling that we had two turns with clinton. two terms with president obama. we have done great things. i don't want to minimize what was done. we are still seeing wealth consolidate and the poor get poorer and middle class wages stagnate. we have not had our fdr moment. we have not reshaped the way we think about opportunity many this country. or if we are start thing to reshape the way we think about it. we have not reshaped what we do. we have not come up with a strategy like we had mid last century where everybody grew together. we have not figured out how to do it with all of the political power we have had. progressives say it's not about score settling or score keeping. they are increasingly struggling. >> you said it's decision time. are they going to put cuomo on the line again. >> if i knew the answer -- >> take a guess! put odds on it.

>> i am leaning slightly against it, to be honest. if you're putting me on the spot. they have a ballot line they need to protect. if they endorse another candidate it's not clear ha the unions that helped fund and drive their activities go with him. remember, they can endorse somebody and the trade workers, they are all free to endorse who they want. >> it gives them negotiatinging power. what do you try to extract when you have a poll like that on the table? >> that's about thork. the fusion voting in new york. most states would not give leverage to a third party. that's interesting. i want to thank ozzy, joan walsh, former clinton white house communications director anne lewis and my colleague karen finney. you can see "disrupt" today at 4:00 p.m. al sharpton will weigh in on the

clippers controversy just as they tip off. coming up, what they can agree they are against ahead.

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smoke? nah, i'm good. [ male announcer ] celebrate every win with nicoderm cq, the unique patch with time release smartcontrol technology that helps prevent the urge to smoke all day long. help prevent your cravings with nicoderm cq. flip-flopping isn't generally a winning strategy. a voters they are indesiindecis only on board with an issue when it is politically favorable. one of the hottest political issues this year seems to be putting politicians, many republican politicians, in exactly that kind of "that was then, this is now" position. startses in 2007 when education experts received $150 million in funding from bill gates and they began meeting to devise the common core curriculum standards spear headed by the national governor's association and the council of chief state school

officers. there was broad bipartisan support. in 2009 after president obama's race to the top subsumed the bush administration's no child left behind the government recommended the national standards to the states. nearly all the states, 45 plus the district of columbia, adopted common core and have been working to implement the standards since then. just as quickly in recent weeks, it seems states have been dropping common core, particularly if the a republican is in charge. this week bobby jindal wrote an op-ed for usa today and strongly denounced the policy. quote, it is true the common core standards did originally grow from states wanting to increase standards so our students can better compete with the rest of the world. great idea. louisiana was in that group. jindal adds he believes common core isn't living up to the standard saying centralized planning didn't work in russia. it's not working with our health care system and it won't work in education. in north carolina on thursday, state legislative committee

voted to replace common core standards. the measure will come before the next legislative session in pais. indiana became the first state to abandon the standards. in fact of the original 45 states that voted to implement common core, more than half have introduced legislation to pause or review their position. why now? for the first time this spring millions of american students took their first common core aligned practice tests which meant teachers and parents got their first look, too. it sparked disappointment, in some cases outrage and protests. the common core standards set to go into full effect. there is now a climate of political urgency around the issue. tea party groups have gotten behind the effort to drop common core. in some instances labeling it obamacare which isn't fair because it was devised during the previous administration and is under the control of the states. nuance is often and usually lost. not every republican is

abandoning common core. two big names are behind it. chris christie and former florida governor jeb bush, two of the most talked about contenders for the republican presidential nomination in 2016. to the right, common core represents a heavy overreach of the federal government. to the left, groups like the nea and aft believe it is teaching to the test and we are left with a political rorschack test. they have to risk being a flip-flopper or feel the wrath of of the tea party and two educators on the left. is common core an issue that will resonate for voters in 2016 and beyond is this i want to welcome lindsay layton, a national education reporter with the washington post in our d.c. newsroom. here in new york former vermont republican governor jim douglas who believes common core gets a bad rap. also a member of the bipartisan

policies governors council. wendell steinhouser is a high school math teacher. he likes common core. feels the implementation has gone terribly. we have rob astorino running as a candidate for governor in the state. he decided this month not to have his kids take the state's new common core reading exam. there is a lot to talk about here. lindsay, i will start with you. i hope you can set the table for us as somebody who knows the this from a national level. this is something with roots, the national governor's association a decading ago. suddenly now seven or eight years later this is a huge political issue. i can't watch a conservative political event, one of the cattle calls with prospective candidates where everybody isn't railing against this. tell us how it started and how it got to the point we are at now. >> sure, steve. the idea of national standards

really has been around -- kicking around for decades. president eisenhower was the first to raise it in 1959 this the state of the union address. there have been a lot of attempts over the years to try to do this. it's come from presidents. president bush the first. clinton. they made attempts to create a voluntary national standard and they collapsed because they were seen as federal overreap reach. when the department of education was created it was specific. when congress authorized that department the congress said the federal government had no role in what goes on this the classroom. it needed to stay out of curriculum matters and -- >> when they created the common core they thought they threaded the needle. this was a set of national standards, but it was not federal overreach. >> right.

this time it was different. that's why this attempt really had a lot of success until this point. it grew out of the nga and the chief state school officers. two organizations that represent state officials. so it came tr are the states. that's why it really moved very quickly. it started before, as you said, before obama was elected. the work began in 2007, that time frame. this attempt came from the states. that's are true. >> so rob, running for governor of new york, you didn't let your kids take this test. they did a trial run in new york this year. this is an yood idea, the common core has its roots. the nga, lots of republican governors. why is it a big deal to you and why is it a big deal to republicans? i'm hearing so much from republicans on this. >> i don't think it's just republicans. this is not in a neat box.

you have teachers unions, republican groups and ordinary citizens. that's who i'm talking about. my child is in 5th grade. my other child is in third graet grade. she starts kindergarten next year. for the two in school now, i'm trying to do this work. somewhat scratching my head. i get what they are trying to the do. some of this is not appropriate for the kids doing it. i'm not talking about social issues. i'm talking about the math and language base in the math. my concern is you have individual are education plans. children with learning dibltss. the one size fits all approach where everyone must learn the same thing on the same table and get to the same finish line at the same time. it doesn't happen. the reality of putting it on paper versus what it's like in the classroom is different. i talked to teachers who are really concerned about this.

i talked to parents very concerned about this. as a parent i am concerned. i have two big issues with the federal government moving this along with dangling money, picking the company that will write the test which you need to formulate baseded on the test. preparing just for the test on the english and language arts. another three weeks on math many. for kids falling behind, they are pulling them out of the enrichment classeses like music, art, gym and other things to teach to the test. i'm concerned about this. let's remember this has never been tested itself. this is a huge experiment. i believe even bill gatess said we'll find out if it works in ten years. the thought that my kids are little lab mice who will be lab rats through the school district is a concern to me. the expense for this because the federal money is drying up will be massive on a local level. >> governor douglas, you were a

governor when the nga came up with the idea. i though we can talk and i want to talk about the objections to this from the left. the real energy now, governor pence, governor perry in texas, governor jindal, huckabee, rand paul, ted cruz. this is where the national energy and the opposition is coming from. what do you make of the change? is it because as lindsay suggested president obama comes to office and here's an opportunity for republicans to link a federals policy to him? is that going on here? >> it's per flplexerplexing. governors across the spectrum, many conservative signed on to the standards. let's take a step back to remember what was happening the decade before. we had no child left behind passed. that established national standards. established testing

requirements. schools were failing if they didn't make yearly progress and dumped a lot of federal money into state and local expense. that sounded like a federal intrusion into public education. the they wanteded to push back so it was a state-based initiative. we are all hearing from employers around the country. they just don't measure up. we are 30th in the world in standardized test scores. we have to do better. seems like when we come up there is always a push-back. >> when i was listening to rob and hearing some of the concerns typically raised by the teacher's university i don't know about the test. i know your position has been you are supportive of the idea of the common core. the implementation in new jersey is what you have a problem with. is that right? >> right. we have had standard this is new jersey for decades. standards are nothing newment

what's happening here is the overreach into the testing. i think that's what's hitting everybody at this point. the standards have been in since 2010. why all of the sud issen now is because the park test, the national test that goes with it is doing an overreach and over testing. you are seeing a lot of that in school districts across the nation. how parents are reacting to this. they're tired of it. make no mistake. new jersey hases been great with public schools. they are second in the nation behind massachusetts. we are embracing standards. but the over testing is crowding out the chance for teachers to teach the students what they need to know. >> we want to talk about trying to figure out the opposition to this and what it means for where common core is going. we'll pick it up after this. n a. mattel started in a garage. disney started in a garage.

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politics of the common core. what's struck me about the issue, it landeded on my radar. there was a presidential cattle call in new hampshire a couple of week ago. the republican prospects for 2016 came up. . i tuned in because i have no life and i watch these things. i expected the usual obamacare bashing. what i heard was common core. this seems to be replacing obamacare as the rallying cry on the right. i want to ask you about that. there is a poll taken last july, july of 2013, asking people about common core. will it improve or hurt educational outcomes, qualities. republicans, 44% said improve. it was not controversial among republicans then. i'm noticing in the last three to six months there's been a major change at the grassroots level in the republican party that forced big name republicans not to change their position but trumpet this. i watched jeb bush go to an

event last month in florida. he was heckled on his way in because of his support for common core. what on the right is driving this? is it a way to attack president obama or is there something else to it? >> if you think back to 2012, obama is re-elected. the common core is being rolled into classrooms. the tea party is extremely frustrated. it's scorched on its efforts to get rid of the affordable care act. that's rolling ahead. it's feeling frustrated and it looks around and it sees the common core as a vehicle are to ignite its supporters. basically to revive itself. so last summer, groups like freedom works and others that are associated or funded by the koch brothers start getting invested and putting money into some communications efforts

around the common core. it started last summer and worked its way through the school year now. they have picked up support from parents who are experiencing the common core or the botched implementation in many cases, in many states. so they have built this campaign basically. it has replaced obamacare in some ways as the hot topic. a way to push back against the obama administration. >> so -- >> by the way, the administration has, you know -- it as n't done itself any fehrs in terms of the political call cue lace lus here. the president twice bragged about the common core in a state of the union address. arnie duncan, the education secretary has basically taken credit for getting the the states on board with common core. so even though it was a state-led initiative, the administration keeps boasting

about how it successfully has gotten states to raise standards. >> so governor douglas, what i see here, if the position is having the idea of drafting common core standards is standards is good, the key is that each state has to implement it the right way, and if each state can implement it the right way, then this is a good thing for the country. if that's sort of what you're saying, the threat i'm seeing is this has become a test for conservatives, almost the way that meeting medicaid under the affordable care act. is there a threat now that that pressure, just within the republican party, and we can talk about what's going on in the democratic party too, but particularly in the republican party makes it impossible for governors to institute this thing? >> well, we'll have to see what happens. lindsay is right that when they started talking about it, it didn't help from a political standpoint. but the message will be rebutted more successfully in the future. the u.s. chamber of commerce and other business groups are

starting to mobilize and belatedly perhaps get the message out. the bottom line here is, steve, about a third of all college students in america take at least one remedial course. it's higher for community college kids. it's higher for minorities. the public education system isn't getting the job done in the eyes of many e employers across the country. so we need good standards. the implementation, the timing, the process, that's something individual states, some do better than others. >> so your view, just so i'm clear on it, is it that new york has botched this so badly, but you still would be okay with the common core, or is it let's just get rid of the common core? >> first of all, you're putting it into a neat box, that it's a republican thing, and it's not. >> no, no. i'm saying there's particular energy i have noticed of late. >> i think that's a miscalculation. this is coming just from the average parent. and i have a lot of democratic women coming up to me saying i'm going to vote for you because this common core has to go.

and they've said to me i'm a democrat. >> >> i'm wondering if there's something specific to new york. new york is ahead of the curve in terms of implementing this thing. are you objecting to the implementation or the common core itself? >> governor cuomo embraced it. and it was botched. it's been awful. when the implementation is ironed out, you're still left with the common core, which i fi philosophically disagree with. and you can't say it doesn't because you can only deviate 15% if you go into these standards. and it's also misnoted that if you're against common core you're against the standards. absolutely not. i want higher standards. we spend more per pupil than any

other state and we are at the bottom of the standings. it shouldn't just be strawberry ice cream. it can be strawberry, chocolate, vanilla or whatever. take the best of the best around the country, apply that locally in new york and achieve the same results or better. >> if there's implementation problems in new york and new jersey, can this thing survive? >> it becomes age appropriate. that's a big key. and standards are going to come. i don't know if it's going to stay with common core or states are going to adopt standards like we have before. the one thing complicating this is they see common core as the whole issue. inside of common core is the evaluation, the testing, the standards, and nobody has the curriculum yet. that's the whole key. you can have standards, but how do we implement it with what we teach in the school? that's what teachers need right now to have that time, to create that curriculum. and it's not any any textbook you're going to buy today. >> we'll see it. next school year is the full

implementation. thanks to "washington post's" lindsay leighton for joining the conversation. up. a short word that's a tall order. up your game. up the ante. and if you stumble, you get back up. up isn't easy, and we ought to know. we're in the business of up. everyday delta flies a quarter of million people while investing billions improving everything from booking to baggage claim. we're raising the bar on flying and tomorrow we will up it yet again.

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all right. we're out of time. i want to thank all of today's guests for a great show. former vermont governor jim douglas. thank you for getting up. thank you at home for getting up as well. tune in next week because we are heading the down for our shows to washington. that's next saturday and sunday. up next, mhp with jonathan capehart sitting in. a federal appeals court hears arguments on whether mississippi's last remaining abortion clinic can keep operating. we'll join jonathan in studio. that's next. and at 1:00 p.m. today, taking the hill. patrick murray sits down with maria tillman, she's the widow of pat tillman. that does it for us today. have a great week.

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