thanks for disrupting your afternoon. i'm karen finney. and yes, there is a new tape reported to be more of l.a. clippers' owner donald sterling espousing his views on race in america and it could be even uglier than the first one. >> the owner of the los angeles clippers facing a stompl controversy accused of making racivity remarks caught on tape. >> tmz post wlad it says is an audio recording between a conversation. recording has not been verified by nbc news. >> yeah, it bothers me that a lot that you want to promobroadcast that you're associating with black people. >> i don't think i have to interpret those statements for you. they kind of speak for themselves. >> we intend to get to the bottom of it as quickly as possible. >> if you're silent about this, then you are accepting this. >> it upsets all of us.

there's not one guy that's happy with this situation. >> i think the league needs to take a very long, hard look on whether this guy should continue being the owner or not. >> can you not have someone own an nba team in this country and have this kind of attitude. over the last 24 hours, everyone from magic johnson to michael jordan to president obama have weighed in on the story of racially charged comment allegedly made by los angeles clippers' owner donald stel sterling. it is yet to be confirmed the voice on the recording is that of the nba owner but just as nba commissioner adam silver launches an investigation into that recording yet another one has surfaced. just hours ago the website deadspin.com released an extended version of that recording allegedly between sterling and his girlfriend.

>> i don't understand. don't see your views. i wasn't raised the way you were rais raised. glp then if you don't feel it, don't come to my games. don't bring black people and don't come. >> do you know that you have a whole team that's black that plays for you? >> do i know? i support that with giving them food and clothes and cars and houses. who gives it to them? does someone else give it to them? do i? do i make a game or do they make the game? is there 30 owners that created the league? >> commenting on the tmz recording, silver says he finds the report "disturbing and offensive" and plans to move quickly with its investigation. the clippers have said, "mr. sterling is emphatic that what is reflected on the recording is not consistent with nor does it reflect his views, beliefs or feelings."

but whoever's voice is on that tape even has the president weighing in from overseas. >> when ignorant folks want to advertise their ignorance, you don't really have to do anything. you just let them talk. that's what happened here. >> as bryant gumbel said this morning on "meet the press," given mr. sterling's reputation, the surprise here is that he's actually been able to get away with a lot of allegedly bad behavior until now. >> i'm surprised that anyone is surprised. i mean donald sterling's reputation is such that one could say, if you keep a vicious dog for a while and you know he's vicious, you can't be surprised when one day it bites someone. >> sterling's past includes a $2.7 million settlement in a 2009 house discrimination suit that was brought by the justice department which accused him of systematically driving african-americans, latinos and families with children out of the apartment buildings he owned. now sterling admitted to no wrongdoing in that settlement. that same year sterling was sued unsuccessfully by former

clippers' long-time general manager elgin baylor over being a cases of racial discrimination. t . sterling also admitted to regular encounters with a woman he paid for sex. sterling was suing the woman. >> my panelists, perry, and author and political analyst joe hutchison. earl, start with you. you have written about mr. sterling and you know something about mr. sterling. tell us what we need to know about this man and what your reaction was to this alleged recordings. >> two things. we do know the history of donald sterling. there's nothing new. if you're in los angeles, we're very familiar with sterling. i mean he's been sued. he's actually been accused of harassment. there have been a number of things over time about donald

sterling that are well known in this community in terms of his not only bad behavior, misbehavior, but racist behavior. when you hear this kind of tape, when you hear sterling -- and that's sterling. it is him, there's no doubt about that. simply because history has condemned him. history has proven that this man is capable of doing these things. but i have to say this. beyond donald sterling, i think there is a bigger question here. the bigger question is, yes, donald sterling is a racist, yes, donald sterling is a bigot and donald sterling should be maligned for everything not only now but in the past. but also we really have to look at nba, adam silver, the board of governors and also the owners in the nba. at the end of the day donald sterling is your baby so really the ball is in your court and really the question that everybody is asking right now -- and legitimate question -- what are you going to do about it? >> perry, that's an interesting point. yesterday a lot of -- i was looking at a lot of sports news websites. they were saying this is the

first big test basically for adam silver as the new commissioner of the nba. >> exactly. he's only been in this for less than a year. people knew this about donald sterling for a long time. the question will be is it is actually fairly h lly hard in m sports leagues to get someone out of ownership. they bought the team, they have certain rights. the question will be how long is the suspension and what's the appropriate fine for someone who is a billionaire? for donald sterling he may sort of write that off as nothing. account nba condemn him through a fine or suspension and really show the repug nance of his comments and how bad they were. >> earl, the naacp of los angeles was set to honor mr. sterling in a couple of weeks and actually they honored him in 2009. i want to read something that you wrote back in 2009 in protest to that decision. you said, "the award must go for real achievement and belief in the fight for civil rights and racial justice.

if not, then it is just a tainted and cheap piece of paper or slafb glass handed out to anyone with a name, fat checkbook, grants, political favors or who is adept at grabbing media pr gestures. tell us why you opposed this award for mr. sterling at the time. >> well, then is no different than now. the challenge to the naacp -- i'm glad you mentioned. that's the local naacp. not the national. that's state wide in california. they did say we would give donald sterling a lifetime achievement award. all the things you said and much more i pointed out then. the stands for civil rights, equal opportunity, justice in america. it is the oldest civil rights organization. why are you doing this? why would you give someone a lifetime achievement award, no less, that has a proven history of bigotry? what does that say but, the organization? as we fast forward to 2014 and of course with the new allegations, the naacp once

again is under fire. the state wide naacp in california, they've condemned it, said don't do it. the national has weighed in, don't do it. my understanding is that the l.a. chapter is in the process, if not rescinding the award, certainly making -- putting things in motion to do that. that's the correct call. that's the right call. but also too, it's got to send a message. when you give award out they have to be generally not someone that's bought and paid for an award but someone that's deservedly earned the award for their fight for civil rights. hardly think donned sterling fits that category. >> john, one of the things i found interesting is as earl was saying, as you heard in the opening, their this is a gentleman who has a pattern of "alleged" i should say behavior. the housing discrimination case, obviously settled. sterling settled and admitted no wrongdoing but there was testimony in that case that was very disturbing and, unfortunately, it sort of gets the hair on the back of your neck in the same way that this

recording does, if it should be him. in that testimony someone said, when sterling first bought ardmore apartments, he remarked on its odor. that's because of all the blacks in this building. they smell. they're not clean. and it is because of all the mexicans that just sit around and smoke and drink all day. he added, so we have to get them out of here. what strikes me is these comments are horrible but this behavior is even more horrible in some ways and did more damage to families. >> this is the complexity of it. when you talk about sports, obviously everybody kind of taps in, they understand the big discussion. but there's something that goes much deeper here. it is the track record. earl's written about this wonderfully for many years and very, very well. when you get into that track record, then we connect to what the president was saying today and this is the important part of it. in recent days, recent months, we've had the u.s. supreme court say maybe we don't need to be so firm on affirmative action.

we've talked about voting rights and kind of dialing things down. we have commentators who come forward and say we've evolved, we've moved forward. sometimes polling data and even official documents are not as revealing as anecdotal evidence from real experience of real people. i think we're getting a very powerful reminder here that while we have made tremendous progress as a country, to simply suggest that we've evolved beyond having to focus on these issues is absurd. >> it's interesting that this also -- probably not interesting to mr. sterling, but this does come at the end of -- we had the supreme court decision. we had cliven bundy out there making horrible remarks about negroes and then to have this. it does strike a chord in terms of this idea that we're not a post-racial society and we do still have a lot of issues that we need to deal with.

frankly, if we hadn't heard this recording, i suppose we wouldn't be having this conversation. >> oh, for sure. especially with the bundy incident comparing that to this, you're seeing a lot of people express a lot of outage at an individual's racist attitudes. it's very easy for us as a society to condemn an individual's racist attitudes and say that that is wrong and reprehensible. now the court case, as you mentioned, dealing with housing discrimination, employment discrimination, as you mentioned, they were dropped or they settled. >> no wrongdoing. >> give the disclaimer. >> so that was there. but what's so interesting is, i mean i didn't know about those things before he made these remarks and i feel like a lot of people in the similar situation, maybe if you're not in l.a. you didn't know about that history. and so that history speaks to institutional and structural racism and racism that is much more damaging in many ways to people's lives and the biggest things we're still dealing with as a country.

so i hope that this kind of sparks a bigger conversation rather than just saying, oh, he said racist things. >> earl, final question to you. what's the reaction been in the l.a. community? >> anger. absolute anger. but, no surprise. once again we come full circle. we know this man. we know his history. we know what he said and done. we all know that. now, this just proves exactly what has always been known about donald sterling. he's a bigot of the highest order but something else needs to be said.

at the same time that we can condemn him and rightly so, he will be, and should be, we have to understand, he doesn't exist in a vacuum. there is a climate that permits a person to say and do exactly what they think if they have money, if they have prestige, if they have ownership a donald sterling and at the end of the day think they can get away with it. >> that is the project that we all have to continue to work on. thank you. coming up, i'll have more on donald sterling's comments with the reverend al sharpton joins me right here on set. so don't go anywhere. much more coming up. it's guaranteed. seed your lawn. seed it! anncr: to keep your new grass growing strong, feed it with scotts starter food for new grass. as a i'm still not going toall the pmake it to mars,o visit. but thanks to hotwire's incredibly low travel prices, i can afford to cross more things off my list. this year alone, we went to the top of the statue of liberty... and still saved enough to go to texas-- to a real dude ranch! hotwire checks the competition's rates every day... so they can guarantee their low prices. so we got our 4-star hotels for half price.

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the united states continues to wrestle with a legacy of race and slavery and segregation. that's still there. the vestiges of discrimination. we've made enormous strides but you'll continue to see this percolate up every so often. >> that was president obama putting in broad are context those alleged remarks of l.a. clippers owner donned sterling. it came in a week where race has

already been at the forefront of the national psyche from the supreme court upholding a state ban on affirmative action to a nevada rancher wondering if the negroes would be better off as slaves today. after everything we've heard this week, what are those broader implications of a basketball team owner in a majority african-american league allegedly saying what he allegedly said. i am joined now by the reverend al sharpton, host "politics nation" here on msnbc and host the national action network. i want to go to a point you made earlier today. sounds to me that you are convinced it really is mr. sterling on this tape and that he could either just say, yes, it is, or no, it is not. >> 24 hours later and this went national little over 24 hours ago. he has said nothing to say that this is unequivocally not me. you don't need a nicely worded legal answer, this does not represent my views. it's not me, or it is you.

and if it is you, then he should be dismissed as the owner, or the nba should say that we are going to then have another team in los angeles. the fact this man could say this in any form -- if in fact he said it, and he hasn't denied it -- means if the nba does not take action, they are saying that in american sports this is acceptable or excusable behavior for an owner which means the standard for owners now means racism is no longer beneath our bar of acceptability. >> so you've got adam silver saying that they're investigating. he said that they'll expedite that investigation. not quite sure of what that means. but with it's also -- this is happening not in a vacuum, in a larger context. i mentioned sort of other things that have happened this week, but as the president framed it, this larger conversation about race. what does it say to you if in

fact this does turn out to be mr. sterling in terms of the level of sort of admonishment thaes that he should receive from the nba? >> i think the level is clear that he should no longer be an owner. have you a guy that now we know has a background in having discriminatory practices and when people can evolve, he clearly has not if this is what he said to his girlfriend. he settled for millions of dollars discrimination lawsuits and now he's leaving the league to hang out to dry. if he had any love for the sport he would step aside on his own but clearly that does not seem to be the case. so i think the nba is going to have to do it and do it right away. many of us on national action network will be moving in the morning to go after advertising now and say wait a minute, you going to advertise with a team that tells his girlfriend not to be photographed with plajic

johnson? i think nba has to look at the fact major advertisers cannot continue to support this. >> something magic johnson said earlier today, i think he framed quite beautifully. >> he shouldn't own a team anymore and he should stand up and say, i don't want to own a team anymore. especially when you have african-americans renting his apartments, coming to the games, and playing for him. and coaching for him. this is bad for everybody. it is bad for america. and so i'm really upset about it. >> i just want to underscore that point, reverend sharpton. i know you've talked about this. this really is bad for the country but it is also potentially a moment where we can teach and talk and learn, isn't it? >> i think it is exactly that moment. if we learn. i mean i think if we just wait for it to pass or he makes an apology and gives somebody a donation, like paula deen did, then i think we do not learn anything. i think we got to start saying,

wait a minute. all of us may have had to evolve in said areas, but this is unacceptable and there is a penalty and you cannot be -- i don't care how much money you have, how many friends you have, can you not be in certain circles if you continue to behavior in this way and this is clearly an opportunity to do that. >> reportedly the players have their warm-up t-shirts inside out as a means of protest when they went today. what would you advise the players. they are obviously in a tough spot. they talked last night through the coach statement about this is something they've all been working towards since they were children and yet this is a very significant moment. >> my advice to them is to at one level stand up and protect the integrity of what is fair. but at another level i would not give him the victory. him being sterling the victory

of my not going forward with everything i have to win that championship to prove bigots like him wrong. i wouldn't give him the joy of distracting me from my goal. i would find a way to stand up and protest and also embark on my goal and they have contractual things that they have to deal with. i have always said we all have different roles. i do not think athletes are expected to do what activists like me do. but i do think that they should protect their integrity but activists ought to deal with him and the nba should not be able to escape through the smoke while we get in a fight with the players. the onus is on the nba. they supposed to be the ones that deal with the association. don't have it switch to where we get in an argument with the players. they are employees. the association has the responsibility here. >> how soon do you think we'll get an answer from adam silver about this investigation of the tape? >> i don't know what he's going to investigate unless there's something wrong with his tape recorder. i mean if i'm adam silver, i

would say is it your voice or not? if it is your voice, game over. >> all right. we'll leave it there. thank you so much, reverend sharpton. the rev will have much more on this story tomorrow night at 6:00 p.m. eastern on "politics nation" here on msnbc. ahead in your sunday forecast, another conversation on race this week as congressman paul ryan meets with the congressional black caucus. the panel will be back to weigh in. cut! [bell rings] this...is jane. her long day on set starts with shoulder pain... ...and a choice take 6 tylenol in a day which is 2 aleve for... ...all day relief. hmm. [bell ring] "roll sound!" "action!" carsthey're why we innovate. they're who we protect. they're why we make life less complicated. it's about people.

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in your sunday forecast, a meeting of the minds. this week congressman paul ryan is scheduled to meet with members of the congressional black caucus as part of an effort to clean up the mess he made with recent comments, comments that he says were misinterpreted. take a listen. >> we have got this tailspin of culture in our inner cities in particular of men not working and just generations of men not even thinking about working or learning the value and the culture of work. so there is a real culture problem here that has to be dealt with." >> you know, mr. ryan, there is a cultural problem that needs to be dealt with like moving past your rhetoric of makers and takers are a permanent class of government dependence. hopefully you'll really listen as the cbc members try to help

you understand why your reference to the inner city sound like a racist code reference to black people. while you're at it, perhaps the cbc can also explain why your budget proposal makes any thought of being seen as the new jack kemp or are a champion of the poor absolutely impossible. we're joined by our panel and angela blackwell, and congresswoman gwen moore, who will be in the meeting this week. she serves on the budget committee with mr. ryan. congresswoman, thank you so much for joining us. >> oh, thanks for having me with this powerful panel. >> that's right! we're going to get to the bottom of this, one way or the other. congresswoman, the obvious question is what do you expect to get out of this meeting? >> well, clearly we don't -- the budget -- the house version of the budget is already passed and it's $791 billion even below

sequester levels and i mean it cuts everything from w.i.c. to subsidies for amtrak, to health care for veterans. it hurts not only the very, very poor, but the middle class as well. it raises taxes on the average american by $2,000 and lowers taxes on the very wealthy by $200,000. so we don't expect him to walk back from that. but, he has seemed to be interested in having a conversation about ending poverty and we certainly agree on that. so we see this as a tremendous opportunity to talk to a powerful member of congress, the chairman of the budget committee and potentially the ranking member of the chairman of the ways and means committee about more strategic ways to help the poor with job training opportunities, with economic development activities that are

focused and targeted rather than just simply slashing and burning benefits not only to the poor but to -- but hurting slowing the growth of our economy. >> i want to follow up with you on that. i read something that you wrote where you say -- or that you had said, we are happy that representative ryan wants to engage in this conversation an we're not going to let him get away with a sort of slight of hand on this. we know how to crunch numbers as well. is that how you are going to show him the error of his budgeting ways? >> for one thing, his budget does not balance amyrarithmetic or morally. you can't cut benefits to the very poor and say you are helping the poor. the congressional black caucus, we have leadership from representative bobby scott and barbara lee is also on the budget committee.

chairman fudge. we put together a very responsible congressional black caucus budget every year and our budget not only does not slash and burn benefits to the poor, but it helps grow our economy. it taxes more fairly. and it does reduce the deficit. so we do have a product that we have spent a lot of time putting together as a budget and so we can't be tricked with some of the accounting tricks that ryan has. >> some of those numbers. >> exactly. right. you can't cut and get rid of the affordable care act, for example, and then expect to still count the savings from that in your budget. there are a lot of tricks that he plays and it is just not going to work with us. >> angela, so ryan has sort of been trying to remake himself as this jack kemp advocate on poverty and yet he sort of

saying not many of the right things but he seems to be trying. and yet the budget and his policies and the talk that we've heard from him time and again, makers and takers and dependence and that you'll really just doesn't seem to jive with what he actually says his goal is. >> that's right. he has a long way to go to establish himself as a person who cares about poverty and people of color. for a person who is intelligent to admit to ignorance and ineptitude is an amazings opportunity. so the hope that the congressional black caucus will fully take advantage of it and offer him a road map to how to be able to show that is he a champion for those being left behind. budget that he's put forward, the rhetoric that he's engaged in, the things he's failed to be a champion for all paint a very negative picture of where he's really coming from. the congressional black caucus is well positioned because they know everything that needs to happen to help him see how to go forward and this needs to be a

transparent conversation with the american people so they can see that you can't talk out of both sides of your mouth in this day of everything you say is made public. you got to stand someplace and you got to be consistent about where you stand. he hasn't been. >> i would say he's been consistent but consistently in the wrong place. actually. i want to play something. bundy was compared to ryan. see if you think this is a fair comparison. >> i don't see a great deal of difference between paul ryan's comments about lazy inner city people who really just don't want to work and this guy suggesting that they abort their babies and they somehow instead of picking cotton and slavery are being subsidized by the government. there is a continuum of racialized beliefs that has to at least acknowledge the connection between one hand -- on the one hand the arguments about race that areimplicit and the arguments about race on the otherexplicit.

>> is that a fair comparison? >> it is a painful comparison. i've known paul ryan for a very long time. our dads went to law school together and we come from the same part of this country. i think that paul ryan -- i can say this without a doubt. paul ryan reveres jack kemp and wants to be a jack kemp type figure. what has happened for paul ryan is that the statement that he made, as well as one that's been less covered, part of his speech at cpac where he repeated a story about an impoverished young man that was way off the mark and he got called out on it. he has had some terribly embarrassing moments related to race and related to how he talks about race or at least poverty in the broader sense and so i would hope -- i would hope that he looks at this visit with the

cbc as a huge opportunity to learn and to grow and i will -- in paul ryan's defense, i will say that i suspect he really -- he hopes that he can get there. but for congresswoman moore and others, the important thing is to make it a quantifiable progress as opposed to a rhetorical progress. and this is a big deal, because right now paul ryan, who i think really does like to think of himself as a new jack kemp, is being outstripped by rand paul and others who are going deeper in to these discussions and so let us hope that we have a race to see who can do the most, who can really move this thing forward, because the republican party founded in opposition to slavery ought to make this a n central part of. if paul ryan is the ideas man of

the republican party, he's being given a great opportunity by the cbc to say to eric and to other folks, boy, i've -- i don't want to be this guy. >> i want to follow up on that and particularly about rand paul. because he, too, has been trying to make inroads on race and not always getting it right actually. >> neither one of them are getting it right. i would argue this meeting itself i think would be more productive if we focus less on the budget and the economy. paul ryan has very deep-set views on those issues. he's not going to become for obamacare in this meeting, is my guess. rand paul's ideas about felonies -- people committed of felonies to let them vote again. people in charge of drug sentencings, change those things. that's where it may be useful to talk about them. if he and rand paul were on the same page and other republicans on those issues that might help sort of change that conversation on criminal justice issues. there is a place of progress and possible compromise.

i don't think there is much room on the fiscal issues for compromise. gwen moore gwen moocongress thank you so much. >> thank you for having me, too. i think your panel is just spot-on. because right before this meeting with the cbc paul ryan is having yet another hearing on poverty, he's having two very distinguished black conservatives, bob woodward and wish shholloway. i hope he really wants to converse with us and not just cya. >> i hope you're right. the panel stays with me. still ahead, closing the confidence gap among women even as we speak of the possibility of two female presidential contenders. that is coming up.

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the women's vote may yet again determine the outcome of a number of key races this election season. women received 57% of the bachelor's degrees awarded in this country. we're more than half the workforce and we are making major gains. but women still hold just 18.5% of seats in congress, and less than 17% of corporate board seats at our largest companies. that disparity has been the subject of a great debate around the status and role of women in

our society. sparked, in part, by articles like this memorable cover story in "the atlantic." and both like "lean in" and "thrive." so now journalist claire shipman and katty kay have a new theory of what is holding women back. they examine what seems to be a simple truth -- women suffer from an acute lack of confidence. they write, "compared with men, women don't consider themselves as ready for promotions, they predict they'll do worse on tests, and they general le underestimate their abilities. a growing body of evidence shows just how devastating this lack of confidence can be." which also begs the question about the structural and cultural issues that teach and reinforce a lack of confidence. consider the conversation about paycheck fairness. blocked by conservatives in congress sending a message that women don't deserve equal pay. when fx news hosts blamed the ills of society on women with children out of wedlock. even at the time when the most

buzzed about potential presidential candidates are both women we still have a ways to go to close the confidence gap. my panel is back with me and what are your thoughts on this premise, are we suffering from a lack of confidence? >> i think it's been well documented this impostor syndrome that high-achieving women suffer from -- not all but you find high-achieving women suffer from, that they feel like whatever success they've earned they actually haven't earned it and almost the sense that you are a fraud. i think part of that comes from the fact that these women in these spaces are blazing new trails. it is not a given that the majority of women are going to be representing people of america in congress. 18.5% or the lack of women ceos. when you're blazing a new trail you don't -- and it is not a given, it is not expected, you question and you're also perhaps not confident in the fact that this is where you need to be. but what's really interesting about this whole theory is the reverse is that men are

overconfident. >> yes. >> yes. they're overcounfident and overestimate what they're capable of. >> consistently! all over the world! >> when you look at doctors that are more confident they tend to make more mistakes. perhaps we should be having a discussion how to bring the men back down to reality. >> we don't have enough time for that one today. >> i want to ask you, angela. it was very interesting to see the different reactions that women had to this. jessica valencia wrote, the truth is, if you're not insecure you're not paying attention. women's lack of confidence could actually be a keen understanding of just how little american society values them. and i wanted to read that because as i mentioned in the opening, some of the policy conversations and the tone of those conversations in my mind reinforced -- if you have a lack of confidence, they reinforce that lack of confidence.

>> it is true. there are many reasons for women not to have confidence given the history of the obstacles they have faced in the workforce. i also think that shipman and kay are off on two counts. i think they are off when it comes to the condition of well-paid, high will i educated, hell-placed white professional women and what their challenges are and the challenges for all other women of all races and the challenges for women of color in particular. there are legal issues about child care and making enough to be able to support your family, in being able to have paid sick leave and paid maternity leave. all of these things make women insecure in the workforce and we need to be talking about that. but they're even off when they talk about these well paid highly educated white women because we don't want to take yesterday's mistakes and apply them to the future. that's just what we were starting to tease up here. this overconfidence on the part of men. the very qualities that women who are effective bring to problem solving, to leadership, it is what we need to go

forward. let's not throw that out at the very moment that that's going to be the currency of the future. >> to follow up on that point, we talked at the break about elizabeth warren. she's someone we see as a confident woman and a woman who is kind of doing it her own way, and yet one of the things that shipman and kay talk about in their book is that women also can get punished on the other end if they are overconfident, if they appear over confident. i don't think that's quite happened with warren but it is interesting to see how she's trying to sort of cut a new path essentially. >> it is an interesting thing that -- we talk about women. i think people have been disenfranchise historically when they do show confidence they are often shot down or really hit hard for that. and so i do think that you put it in the calculus. i think people do. what's fascinating about watching elizabeth warren over the last -- since she's really come to the senate, is the extent to which she has done it her own way. i actually think she is a model of confidence because there's been an immense amount of pressure on her to hint about

running for president, or do these things. instead of doing that she's pulled the brakes. oh, you're paying attention to me? let me talk to you about trade policy. let me talk to you about the banks. let me talk to you about postal banking. precise issues. and so that is a form of confidence. that is using your position, using the attention to you in very smart ways and at end of the day i think everything that's been said here is so wise and so important. but i also do think that we ought to recognize when there are people who are doing it their own way and i do think that the elizabeth warren at the phenomenon right now ought not to be missed. it is unique. >> what's interesting to me watching that phenomenon, having worked for hillary clinton a long time. she was a very publicly confident person, a very competent person and yet the stereotype, which a the lot of women face, was, that she was a

"b" -- you know what i'm going to say but i won't say it -- that you're being out of your place, are you too demanding. it is interesting to see how times have changed a little bit when someone like an elizabeth warren can be confident and confidence and not face the same kinds of attacks that i saw hillary face. >> to be fair, elizabeth warren is in the senate partly because she couldn't get the job she wanted in the obama administration. some of the men there weren't too supportive of her. that's fair to say. this book is important but the problem women face is us, men, are not -- i mean if your company has a board where only 1 of 10 people are women, that's wrong. if your board doesn't have any minorities are wrong. focus again on women's behavior and having them have more confidence is a useful conversation. the bigger question is why are men not behaving differently in terms of these things. from a policy and cultural standpoint more than confidence

levels. >> i think that's right. >> touching on both of these points, really highlighting that what we're talking about are what's valued in society or certain spaces and those values aren't necessarily good. it might not be good to be this way. it might be better to be humble and to be collaborative in these sorts of of things so it might be a bigger conversation as well as how we restructure our values. >> and also rewarding the way that women are more collaborative and the way that we lead in recognizing that value. i want to thank my panel. that does it for me. thanks so much for joining us. don't forget you can share your thoughts, find us on facebook or tweet us at msnbcdisrupt and i will see you back here next weekend at 4:00 p.m. eastern. have a great week. hey. i'm ted and this is rudy.

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a daring maneuver. >> i saw the wheel coming at my face. >> a crash not to be believed. >> he saw was bent in half. one dog leads a trooper to a burning building and the dog whisperer tells us why. >> the dog was charged with this message, go find help. this dog takes a bite out after cop's bumper. >> as you see, he's playing. he's not being aggressive. and this suspect seems to take a bite out of the evidence. >> he