>> good evening. i'm chris matthews up in new york. is this something that's bigger thannen basketball? bigger even than sports? is this a national setting oof a higher bar for public and private behavior on matters dealing with race? is this decision to shun steriling from the nation's professional league mark a hiking up of standards, private and public both? are we now in an environment where hate speech, even in the most personal kind and setting is a matter for severe punishment? tonight, we look at the thought of what may go down as an historic condemnation. the verdict from the nba is that donald sterile canning no longer own a team. can no longer even attend nba games. isiah thomas is an nba legend.

he's a hall-of-famer, a former coach, part owner, and team executive. he also served as president of the nba players association. and jamel hill is a columnist with espn and co-host of numbers never lie. late today adam silver announced the authenticity of those recordings that set off this firestorm. the nba was fining sterling the maximum amount of $2.5 million. that was just the beginning. here's the commissioner. >> effective immediately, i a am banning mr. sterling for life mr. sterling may not attend any nba games or practices. he may not be present at any clippers facility he may not be involved in any player or personnel decisions involving the team. he will also be barred from attending nba board of governors meetings or participating in any other league activity. we stand together in condemning mr. sterling's views.

they simply have no place in the nba. >> wow. well, commissioner silver also announced he would be pressing for a vote by the league's owners to force steriling to sell the team, sell the clipper meps also made it clear the verdict was not based on sterling's past actions. in other words, the audio recordings are the only evidence the league needed. here's a key portion of those tapes, originally obtained by tmz. >> people call you and tell you that i have black people on my instagram and it bothers you. >> yeah, it bothers me a lot. if you want to broadcast that

you're associating with black people. how about your whole life every day, you can you could do whatever you want, sleep with them, bring them in, do whatever you want. the little i ask you is not to promote it and not to bring them to my games. >> wow. thanks for coming on. you've had a lot of of experience with this league. does this stun you? for life, it's almost something out of the bible. for life. >> when you look at the words and the language that was had in a private setting but came out publicly, and you look at the sport of the nba, this is a league that has fought racism and racialization since its existence. and this is a place that embraces diversity. we speak to all races, classes, creeds and gender. and this is a place where the commissioner took a leadership position today, adam silver did something today that not only stands in the arena of sports, but also goes outside of the arena. because the values that we try

to exude and exhibit in sport mirrors the ones we want in society. sports is the backdrop for society in terms of values. sport is a way that we transfort our game culturally, intellectually, across the world. so this is a big moment for us. this is a defining moment for us. not only for the nba, but also for society as large. if we can take advantage and have the -- >> and have an open dialogue. >> do you agree with that? we're talking here about a new -- it's hard to codify this in words, what words are in, what words are out. we know some that are out. but this is more about a private conversation, which has become exposed because of a tape recording. and it's really about a point of view exposed in words rather than a particularly bad vocabulary. i mean, he just said he thought -- he didn't want his girlfriend showing up with black guys. that was his statement. clearly stated. it's his position. and the nba commissioner said, saying that is unacceptable. so what does that say about the

league? sports? america? >> i think for so long that sports, we often saw players held to a certain standard. in the work force, if you will. it's the same in the nfl. roger goodell has a situation on his hands with jim err say. now you're saying the power structure be held accountable. i think that's what made this much more unique than what we've seen in the past. now, i know a lot of people, and mark cuban even brought this up himself, talking about, is this a slippery slope because you are punishing somebody for something they said in private? well, i think there are numerous examples in today's society that everybody is a reporter. you know, you can't just go out to dinner, you have people with their own individual smart phones. you have people taping conversations.

so i think it's just -- if anything, it's another lesson about whether or not you should be careful. i on the other hand am okay with how this all came to light. and in a weird way, it's poetic justice. because here is a man who had been known for his seedy and shady and unscrupulous business practices and lo ben a and behold he was done in. >> mark cuban is sticking up for sterling when it comes to his ownership of the team, warning that forcing sterling to sell the team could lead to a what mark cuban calls a slippery slope. here's cuban speaking to reporters yesterday>> it's a very, very, very slippery slope. if it's about racism and we're ready to kick people out of the league. okay. then what about homophobia. what about somebody who doesn't like a particular religion. what about somebody who's anti-semitic. in this country, people are allowed to be morons.

it's a slippery slope when you start trying to remove people from the nba or any organization based off of their private thoughts they have at home. that's damn scary. what do you make about that? people are allowed to be morons? >> well, yes, but there's also a sanctity of the game and the sport. in this case, when you're talking about racism and racialization in this country and in the history of this country and an african-american league that's predominantly 80 to 85% of the players. words carry weight and words have tradition, particularly in this country. and we have to be kargful and we have to be sympathetic to the words than being used and the way they're being used in this setting. and they do transfer outside of the sporting arena.

>> well, let's get into how this is going to, like, get out there. manifest itself beyond this one decision. like a court decision. it's going to become a precedent. i remember when we had the marge schott case in cincinnati. and she said her stuff. and her lawyer, smart guy, i know him, bob bennett from washington said okay, you want to play this game, owners, every one of you owners i want to depose you, put you under oath, and ask you if you ever used words like this ever and you're going to be under oath for this. a smart lawyer would say okay, suppose this guy's lawyer, sterling's lawyer says fell lo eowners, i want depositions publicly taken. i want you to say you've never said anything about other groups. this gets pretty terrifyinging to some people, i would say. >> it really does. but for the 30 owners and the

400-plus players in our league, you know, we have a sanctity and a moral code that we try to live by protecting the sport. we try to have in sport a level playing field. sport is the place where you come in society and you say there's a level playing field. this is a place where black, white, you know -- >> it's merit based. the one area in which i think is totally merit based. >> you have to be careful here. >> this is fascinating the way isiah thomas has talked about this. with amazing talent, not just athleticism, the shooting ability, i've grown up, all the sports, one sport has changed dramatically in my lifetime and that's basketball. it's so much better. the players are so much more able to hit the three-pointers with amazing swishes, relentless. >> steph curry. >> the talent on display, the

eye-hand coordination, whatever you want to call it, this dynamic in sports. the question is the fans have accepted that. they've accepted merit based. how are the fan goings to react to this? do you think they'll say this guy got what he deserved? >> well, let me just quickly address something that chris just kind of put a hopefully up on the last conversation. i understand what you mean about free speech enthusiasts thinking that right is infringed upon. even though the commissioner said he didn't take donald sterling's past behavior into account, you can't possibly think that he didn't think about it at all. i think that's a major piece to this. because if this -- if donald sterling's comments on their own, if we just had the audio and let's say that up until now he had a clean track record and we didn't know about anything else, ei think he would have been dealt with differently. >> that's not what the commissioner said. i teeming you, i'm watching that

commissioner, i'm thinking the guy is thinking legalese, he's thinking i better say it's based just on this incident. there must have been some reason he said just this incident? >> well, yes, and probably legally that's probably what he needed to say. but chris, you and i, i mean, we boat have a bit more common sense than that. you mean to tell me he's not going to take into account the fact that this man has been sued multd pl times and settled those lawsuits for sexual harassment, for racial discrimination. that would indicate that he not only thinks these things, he puts them into practice. and that's the true definition of racism. which is why i would not put this in a category of simplifying it the way that mark cuban did. mark cuban is trying to treat him like a first-time offender. i'm sorry, i consider donald sterling a career racist. because that's what his track record certainly indicates. and i think it's more than fine. maybe not from adam silver from a legal perspective, but for me as a basketball fan, it's okay for me to look at him from that perspective. now, you asked about the fans, i

think now that the commissioner has essentially put -- given the death penalty to this particular owner, they probably feel a lot better about rooting for the clippers, a lot better about tonight's game and a lot better about rooting for the clipper, therefore, to pursue winning a title, which is what this all was about to begin with. but i can't say i'm sorry it came out at this particular time. i wonder would we have had the same reaction if this were occurring in january. >> your expertise is on display here, jamel. what are the percentage chances of the the clippers winning the title this year? >> well, i still say miami is the favorite. but if you asked anybody after the last game how lifeless and emotionless they looked, i think we all would have given them a 0% chance. but they've been a pretty good team all season. they set a franchise record for

wins and this hasn't been an historically below average sub par franchise. so i would say that right now, with this new lease on life, feeling probably a lot of relief that the situation is resolved, i think that i would deaf anily put them in that bracket of top three or four teams that have a chance to get to the feenls. >> so they've got a shot anyways. thank you. honor to meet you sir, isiah thomas. coming up, millionaire, well, they're not slaves but they are millionaires. that's how william rhoden reviews many of the america's top african-american athletes. wealthy but not free. this is going to be an interesting discussion. it's coming up after this commercial. also, president obama takes on the armchair generals out there. don't you love them? why are those on the right so eager to engage militarily? even after afghanistan and the tragedy of iraq? i think that's a good question. the president has answered it. and speaking of the right, the hawks are after john kerry now over a word he used to describe israel's long-term choices if it can't reach a two-state

solution. their real goal to to not reach any kind of peace treaty with the palestinians. >> a federal judge in wisconsin , she's awesome. when i go in there, i want to be awesome too. so i've totally gone pro with crest pro-health. go pro with crest pro-health. the first time i tried crest pro-health it felt different, i mean it felt clean. crest pro-health protects all these areas dentists check most. she's going to do backflips when she sees this. 4 out of 5 dentists confirmed these pro-health products helped maintain a professional clean. i am extremely impressed. i guess that's what happens when you go pro. go pro with crest pro-health. excuse me, did you say you want to see my teeth, oh i'm sorry.

struck down the voter id laws. republicans who supported the law said it would cut down on voter fraud, but the judge agreed with the law's proponents who said it disproportionately hurts poor and minority voters who tend to vote democrat. well, governor scott walker believes the law is constitutional and wisconsin's attorney general says the state will appeal the judge's decision. "hardball" back after this. she loves a lot of the same things you do. it's what you love about her. but your erectile dysfunction - that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use

helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than 4 hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial. female announcer: sleep train's interest free ends sunday. it's your last chance to get three years interest-free financing on beautyrest black, stearns & foster, serta icomfort; even tempur-pedic.

plus, get free delivery, and sleep train's 100-day low price guarantee. but hurry! sleep train's interest free for 3 event, ends sunday. ♪ sleep train ♪ ♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪ >> welcome back to "hardball." this morning, oprah winfrey

weighed in on sterling saying he has a, quote, plantation mentality. >> i know you've been following this story. >> of course i have been following this story. it feels like a plantation mentality in 2014. it just doesn't fit. >> well, nate silver is 538 blog and found that 76% players are african-american. 43% of coaches are african-american. but when it comes to ownership, just 2% of owners are black while 988% are white.

in other words, michael jordan owns the charlotte bobcats, that's it. in his book, $40 million dollar slave" william holden who is right here argues that while african-americans may have achieved wealth from the industry, they haven't gained or exercised real power within it. with us now is him, the author of the book, "the new york times" sports columnist, william rhoden. and also a real expert for history, the history of the civil rights movement, former u.s. congressman for mz mz who is also a former president of the naacp. let's start with william here. we all think about nba players as being well off. they've got a ten-year career, they may end up saving $50 million with all the endorsement opportunities. it's not just the payroll. it's the endorsements. how are they badly off? >> i don't think they're badly off. they're making money. but if somebody could pay 15 players $10 million each, how much is he making? you know? >> well, you know, too, they get a percentage at the gate with a cap it's always about half the

money come into the door goes to the players. >> the point is, they are well off relatively speaking, but this is an issue of power. i mean, you could be paid money. a lot of enslaved people actually made money, but they had no power. and they didn't share the revenue. it would be different if, like, they said okay, you could get 50% of the cotton sales. it still wouldn't -- the barberism is one thing. at least you could say well, we split it 50-50. but in this case, in is -- so, like, white labor -- i mean black labor, white wealth. so that's the premise of the -- >> didn't it used to be, before the big development of black athletes' ability to dominate the nba, you had white athletes making a lot less. >> everybody was making less. >> they didn't own the teams. >> everybody was making less. and the point is, all of them on the plantation, whether you're talking about hockey, major league baseball, the nba. they're all on a plantation. probably a lot of white guys don't know they're on a plantation.

but i think that one thing that's germane here is that i mean, you know, i was at the press conference. and, you know, they kind of brought sterling out and stoned him. yeah, the wicked witch is dead. if you go through the franchises, there aren't many back people at all. you're a majority where they need you -- >> congressman, do you accept this premise that we have a labor force of super talented professionals who make the money, make the fans come to the games and watch on tv, and the guys who make money off of that? isn't that the nay kmur of capitalism? just to be blunt about it. >> it is. but the nature of capitalism only moves great opportunities when there are pressures applied .i agree with bill and oprah also. we can't just focus on this one incident. when you look at the other 29 teams and what they're not doing

when it comes to corporate officers, when it comes to vice presidents, when it comes to marketing, communications, it's a shame. it's almost like what major newspapers are doing in this country. you get the sense that they care about opportunities until you walk into the news room and you begin to wonder what's going on here. so there's a disconnect. this issue has given people the opportunity, i think, if we're serious, to really look at what is not going on and not just focus on donald sterling. >> i'm playing devil's advocate. so here's your guy, here's your exhibit a, donald steriling. here he is defending what he thinks is his kind treatment of african-american players who his former girlfriend. not at the time former, but certainly former now, on the tape released by that dead spin over the weekend. let's take a look at how what he describes what sounds like a

plantation. >> do i know? i support them and give them food and clothes and cars and houses. who gives it to them? does someone else give it to them? do i i know that i have -- who makes the game? do i make the game or do they make the game? >> he just comes out and makes your point for him. >> and that's exactly somebody who says well, on the plantation, they didn't like the enslaved people, well, no, in fact, many of them didn't like, you know, like you like children. it was a paternalism. and it's the same thing here. and that's a great point, a lot of people would just love to leave it here, the wicked witch is dead, racism is over, will let's move on. oh, no, no, no let's follow the truth where it leads. you go to a major league -- you go to a major league press box particularly during the baseball

season. you think you're in 1955. so it's one thing to focus on sterling, but it's much larger than this, much deeper than this. >> people who want to be writers and others want to play ball. your hero and it ought to be my hero is thaddeus stephens. where slavery ended, there was a guy from pennsylvania, a congressman, a white guy, his mistress was black, he had a black girlfriend. you know what he wanted to do, don't just free the people, give them 40 acres and a mule. give them capital. and we're really talking about capital here and the lack of it being devoted towards the development of a real enterprise by black americans. >> and we're talking about opportunities. you've got to provide opportunities. otherwise, it calls into

questions behaviors like this. there are a lot of donald sterlings out there in this society. he just happened to trip up and get caught. but there are others that think that way. this is not a post racial society. racism is alive and well. >> let's talk positively well. michael jordan owns the bobcats. how do you get more black owners? >> the issue isn't really how you get more black owners in my opinion. how do we get the other 29 team troosd what they ought to do to create opportunities for hundreds and hundreds of qualified latinos and african-americans and others. >> white collar jobs in the offices? >> yeah. >> but let's go with your point. listen, we said that everybody is on the plantation.

the problem is not just getting black ownership, but getting enlightened black ownership. a black guy can turn into a plantation, too. >> let's be positive. who do you like? jordan who is doing this? magic johnson has enterprises all over har hem. around the country i should say. >> magic is great, jordan is great. lou foster was great. he started negro national league back in 1920. what he said, he wanted to avoid this whole mess. he said you know what? we've got tons of black baseball players. we've got black banks. let's start our own league. so we don't have to have this nonsense. he did it for 20 year, but finally white major league baseball said oh, no, no, no,

no. we're not going to have that nonsense. certainly people thought he would be better integrated. >> if we could just get a black guy on the supreme court to replace thurgood marshall. so you need enlightened african-american leadership not just anybody. michael jordan is great and i love what he's done. but i think he would tell you also the problem is bigger than just who will own a team. >> let's talk about plaiters. we saw they had muscle. they turned their jerseys inside out, right? they stood up with black power. >> what do you want the players to do before they quit tonight? >> this should be the -- first of all, they should stop using the n-word in the locker room. you can't have it both ways. you can't say donald sterling, you just respect each other every day. that's got to stop, number one. or else this really means, if you continue to disrespect yourself and call each other the n word, then you're just as bad as donald sterling. so stop it. the second thing is basically, this should be the beginning of a movement to make the nba players association strong. because overnight, you've got -- you will be the most powerful organization overnight. you have all these young, rich african-american men who can come together and actually have some muscle. if it takes -- you know, it always takes something like to to make people react. let's be proactive. you know, let's be proactive. >> i think the team had a big run with this when the clippers took the jerseys and reversed them. i think that got things on the ground there.

>> the n-word, i'm a white guy. i can't talk about the locker room or the towel snapping that goes on. but the use of that word does play into this. >> it ought to stop. it really ought to stop. >> thank you, wayne rhoden. powerful voice here on "hardball." kwasi infumi. the chicken hawks out there love the idea of war for somebody else. but first, stephen colbert on one thing the president forgot to do on his trip to asia. this is "hardball."

>> in japanese culture, a deep bow is very often seen as a sign of apology or contrition.

the greater the apology, the greater amount -- >> you know, the japanese invade pearl harbor, you bow. >> oh. it goes back even further than that, tucker. obama spent years on the very same island as pearl harbor groveling to japan on his hands and knees. >> welcome back to "hartford ball." everybody is a critic when it comes to president obama and his recent trip to asia. right wing media hound matt bruj was quick to jump on the president for bowing to a robot with this headline. but that bow wasn't the president's only faux pas according to colbert. >> sew with all this bungling, it's no surprise that the president left japan without the trade agreement. and without the heldly kitty backpack he promised joe biden. >> finally, we hold you about an

ad running in ohio by the candidate looking to take john boehner's seat. >> sometimes when a politician has been in d.c. too long, it goes to his head. and he just can't seem to get the job done. used on a daily basis, interegg in congress would help you every time the moment is right. >> the ad was meant to be humorous, one group didn't find it funny. cedarville university, a christian college where winteregg has been an adjunct professor for three years. has told the candidate his contract will not be renewed. he told "the washington post," quote, they said because of the ad my relationship with them will be done. it's over. the ad obviously touched a nerve. >> severe weather warnings are in affect in parts of the south. a gunman wounded six people in georgia before turning the gun

on himself.

true business-grade internet comes

with secure wifi for your business. it also comes with public wifi for your customers. not so with internet from the phone company. i would email the phone company to inquire as to why they have shortchanged these customers. but that would require wifi. switch to comcast business internet and get two wifi networks included. comcast business built for business.

authorities say the shooter was an employee at that location. and malaysia's transport minister says possible wreckage has been found in the bay of bengal and a potential lead will be investigated. back to "hardball."

>> president obama delivered an unusually strong rebuke yesterday to his critics who say he hasn't been tough enough on foreign policy. >> frankly, most of the foreign policy commentators that have questioned our policies would go headlong into a bunch of military adventures that the american people have no interest in participating in and would not advance our core security interests. for some reason, many who were proponents of what i considered to be a disastrous decision to go into iraq haven't really learned the lesson of the last decade. they seem to play the same note over and over again. >> whether on iran, syria or ukraine, critics of the president have accused him of not being tough enough. dealing with foreign adversaries.

he's being naive or weak or indecisive. what would they have done differently? what would they do tomorrow differently when it comes to dealing with foreign crises. the answer frequently involves banging the war drums. >> i worry when we begin to address by first taking options off the table. we could go back and reinstate the ballistic missile defense program that was taken out. >> the president said we would, quote, consider other options. the president said we're going to provide military assistance to ukraine and that will be in defensive weaponry. >> you could make life advise rabble for putin in a lot of baps he needs to be humiliated and weakened at home. >> he very much cares about democracy on his borders. >> he would gut our arsenal while he allows others, enemies, to enrich theirs?

man, that's just like a liberal on gun control. mr. president, the only thing that stops a bad guy with a nuke is a guy with a nuke. >> john ross, michael steele, what do you make of the charge that the president is not tough enough? do you agree with that? >> i agree there's some truth to what the president has done and how he's approached the policy decisions even involving the latest kerfuffle on israel. particularly with respect to crimea and ukraine, you know what is the strategy? how come we're waiting so long to bring in the heavy handle of economic sanctions here that could really cause putin some pain? the russian stock market yesterday went up, not down. there are some things thavr been taken off the table that maybe

should be put back on that don't involve the military but will bring some pressure. >> i'll get back to you, michael. it seems to me the big different between republican and democratic foreign policy, the big difference is w. took us into an iraq war. and this guy we have now, who i support on so manyish issues president obama is trying to negotiate a way to go to war with iran. the republicans are still proud of their damn iraq policy and seem to have a problem trying to negotiate their way out of a war with iran. so on the big broad strokes, one party is hawkish and one party is dovish to me that is the issue. i think dovish still looks a lot better than hawkish. >> this president is speaking for the american people. i think what he doesn't get nearly enough credit for what he did on iran.

and i think that's the model. you know, michael, to my knowledge, he hasn't taken anything off the table. yes, they are moving slowly on sanctions. they're trying to bring along an international coalition. and that's what worked on iran. i haven't things taken off the table. i heard talk of how do we bring along our allies? how do we make things tougher. yes, we don't go immediately economic sanctions. that's tough on the russian people and not where our allies are right now. if these sanctions that they imposed yesterday don't do something, then they'll go to tougher sanctions. the president said that. nothing is off the table. >> do you support this general approach on the right of issues like well, will et let's arm the libyan rebels. let's arm the syrian rebels. let's arm ukraine. the constant effort to support military action by people we take sides with, even if we're not sure they're the good guys. that seems to be the instinct of mccain and other people in the party. i just see it all the time. >> chris, i agree with you on that. i don't think that's necessarily

the approach you approach headlong into here. i think there are other ways and other aspects of military engagement through our central intelligence community, through our nsa community and other assets we can put on the ground to disrupt internally, to get information, and to bring to bear the appropriate levels of pressure that we seem to have forgotten how to do. i'm not sitting here saying oh, let's go charging in, you know, blind to the military, blind to any other options, only military. but i'm just thinking the administration at this point seems to have moved in such a fashion that people are even doubting whether or not the options he is taking are going to be valid enough to actually get the job done. >> he couldn't get congress behind him for any kind of military action in syria. john mccain was incredibly

reckless in his talks about the syrian rebels. he was calling them moderate and secular. we don't know who they are. he doesn't know who they are. and, you know, we've gotten 87%, 88% of the chemical weapon stockpile out of there, based on the same international movement. i think those are things to point to that are successes. >> but the story in syria is not over yet. >> no, it's not. >> number two, i agree with you that, you know, the whole point that john mccain was making about the rebels we don't know really makes my point. we don't know. so why aren't we using the kind of assets on the ground so that we do know who we're dealing with, what their motives are and what will actually move the foreign policy dial. >> my problem, and i think it was the president's, was it's easy to be an armchair critic because no matter what you advocate, there are no consequences. however, if you're president, michael, what you do has consequences. so people like bill krystal can say he wants putin to be humiliated. what is this? has he ever been in a schoolyard fight even? rub his face in the asphalt. what do you mean humiliated?

give me a break. we're going to lose soldiers so somebody can humiliate somebody on the other ideological side. >> we know where the neo-cons are coming from. >> michael, you're a great man. on this issue, you're nuanced in the wrong direction, but that's okay. john walsh, thank you, michael steele. the hawks on the right, you just heard after secretary of state john kerry for his comment actually was a word about israel. we're going to get to that word and what it means if anything in this context going down the road. this is "hardball." i procrastinated on...

buying a car because i knew... it would be a scary process. truecar made it very easy... for me to negotiate, because i didn't really need to do any negotiating at all. save time, save money, and never overpay.

visit truecar.com by the end of next year, the goelt is to have no children born with hiv. believe it or not, scientists say it can be done. if you want to help this very important mission, you can find more information on our website hardball.msnbc.com. by the way, use that website all the time. hardball.msnbc.com.

>> we're back. the war hawks on the right wing will do anything to politicize israel and the peace process, we know that. and their recent attacks on john kerry is their way of opposing his efforts at peace between the israelis and palestinians. we all know that. secretary kerry is being criticized this week for remarks he made last friday in a closed

door meeting which were recorded by josh rogan of the daily beast. >> a unitary state winds up either being an apartheid state with second class citizens or it winds up being a state that destroys the capacity of israel to be a jewish state. >> jeremy ben ami is president of the pro israel group j street. thank you very much. i want to get to the thing we could learn from. not the gotcha about the word apartheid. if it wasn't for the use of the word apartheid and if we don't get a two-state solution in the near term or ever we end up with israel facing a terrible choice that's been talked about 40, 50 years i have heard the

conversation. you either end up having arab people live as are residents in your country but not citizens and therefore you don't have true democracy or you allow the arabs to vote and get a nonjewish state. i thought that was well known that terrible set of choices down the road. your thoughts? >> exactly. that's the case that secretary of state kerry has been making for over a year. he's poured heart and soul into an evident to try to resolve the israeli/palestinian conflict, two states for two people so iz eel doesn't face the choice outlined. whether or not he should have used the word isn't the issue. the pro israel community should be thanking secretary of state kerry for his efforts trying to save israel as a jewish home and democracy rather than attack him for using a wrong word at the wrong time. >> to the politics of this which you understand. i will ask you, why are the critics on the right leading the attack. why do people on the democratic side feel they have to join it? because of the word apartheid. >> the word was unfortunate. secretary kerry dialled it back and said he shouldn't have used it and wished he could unspool

the tape. it was a reflection of frustration over not getting a deal that need tots be reached at some point for the reason ares you are saying. the situation in israel is unsustainable as it is going now. the republicans jumped on it because there's been a concerted effort from are the beginning of the president's first term to paint him as somehow weak on foreign policy, not muscular. in particular, not being fully supportive of israel which is toxic and a bad thing to call a president in washington, d.c. >> let me go back to this thing about the word. we learned from jimmy carter, of course, that you use that word apartheid to your chagrin at best. if he took it back which he has, what's left to attack him with? are they concerned that if israel doesn't agree to the two-state solution some time, if it's a state where you have an annexation of the west bank

particularly and you have a lot of a rab residents who aren't citizens it might be fair to use the word. is that where he's in trouble? is that what bothers people? >> botherses people on the right. in iz eel people on the right want to take over control of the remaining land that the palestinians currently live on. that's the right wing agenda in israel. >> are you sure? i know it was the old thing to run them out of the country. netanyahu won't say i'm against it. he said he's for a two state even if he set up problems with that. >> a significant part of his party let alone parties in his coalition support the annexation of the west bank. they oppose a two-state solution. if he tried to bring to his only party a vote as to whether or not the country should pursue a two-state solution he would probably lose. it's a right wing coalition. are there are members of it who

are part of the two-state caucus, let's say. but the majority of his party and certainly the party to his right wants the land. that's where the right wing politically in this country is finding alliances. . one-state caucus. >> great to have you on, jeremy. beth, the politics. it's clear steve israel head of the democratic campaign committee and barbara boxer have to jump on it, too. because? >> well, because we are israel's best friends. we'll continue to be and that will be the policy of the country. democrats -- >> also testify to play defense. they know what the republicans will do. things like matt brooks, the jewish republicans. >> we are all grown-ups and we make mistakes and have to deal with it. jeremy ben-ami and beth, great to have you on. when we return, i have thoughts about the crowd always looking for war. we'll be right back. you have time to shop for car insurance today? yeah. i heard about progressive's "name your price" tool? i guess you can tell them how much you want to pay and it gives you a range of options to choose from. huh? i'm looking at it right now.

oh, yeah? yeah. what's the... guest room situation? the "name your price" tool, making the world a little more progressive.

that corporate trial by fire when every slacker gets his due. and yet, there's someone around the office who hasn't had a performance review in a while. someone whose poor performance

is slowing down the entire organization. i'm looking at you phone company dsl. check your speed. see how fast your internet can be. switch now and add voice and tv for $34.90. comcast business built for business. let me finish tonight with the war hawks who seize on every world conflict, whatever the sides, to root for american engagement. it seems there is no war that can't use military action or the threat of it. the in their alarmist world view the country must be aiming guns at someone, somewhere demanding they follow our orders. the effects of the posture is to transform every regional difference into a loaded weapon. we set up a demand, an ultimatum. when that's not met we have no choice but to act. load her up.

argue that husain's possession of wmds is a cause for war. accuse him of having them and then to baghdad, libya, syria, russia and what other nation. then cock the hammer. if they don't do what we demand, start the war drums. this is the geronimo talk before the stupid ti of iraq. since vietnam the lines has been pushed. if a country fails to act the way we'd like we start war talk. we are one thumb to nose away from battle. this is the world of dick cheney, the american enterprise institute and the killers of the keyboard, chicken hawks who send otherses to battle while they man the op-ed pages. president obama did a great job in calling them out for what they are. warriors without swords, hawks without wings. patriots by the page, soldiers of the sound bite. that's "hardball." thanks for joining us. "all in with chris hayes" starts now.

effective immediately, i am banning mr. sterling for life from any association with the clippers organization or the nba. mr. sterling may not attend any nba games or practices. he may not be present at any clippers facility and he may not participate in any business or player personnel decisions involving the team. >> good evening from new york. nba commissioner adam silver, relatively new to the job, made that remarkable announcement today that he was banning l.a. clippers owner donald sterling for life after the league confirmed it was him on tapes that were made public in which sterling makes a slew of oh racist comments to his then girlfriend. we have word the clippers will old a pe game news conference in this hour during which they will