enough of the drama, enough of the boko haram, enough of the politics, enough of everything we've gone through in nigeria. >> no calls this afternoon for action in nigeria as the world searches for 300 missing girls. we'll also talk to the man who once commanded u.s. forces in africa about what can be done. as congress prepares for a new investigation into the benghazi attack, we'll ask him about whether the new effort is substantive or spectacle. >> they should be held accountable because it's a crime. you know, delayed care is denied care and it's just not fair. >> the outrage spreads over mismanagement at the va. now it's revealed there are more hospitals where staff may have lied to cover up mistakes. >> i would much rather have somebody who drank and drank too much taking care of my child than i had somebody whose

lifestyle is questionable. >> you remember those comments, allegedly from the mayor of latta, south carolina. this afternoon a new effort to curb his authority after firing that town's openly gay police chief. meanwhile here in new york city, some families of 9/11 victims are angry over the decision to move unidentified remains to the site of the attacks. i'll talk to one fdny lieutenant whose brother-in-law died that day. what about this idea, pot for schools? well, not pot exactly but tax dollars from pot sales to support schools. it's an idea that's seriously being floated. we'll talk to the woman behind that proposal. good saturday afternoon to you, i'm craig melvin. you're watching msnbc. all of that, plus a big idea about how to get farm fresh food to america's biggest city. so much to get to, but let's start here. that developing story out of virginia. take a look at these dramatic pictures right there showing a hot air balloon in flames. three people were on board, including a pilot.

we just learned about an hour ago that a second body has been found. no names have been released so far. more than 100 people are part of that continuing search effort right now. they're looking for the other person who was aboard. the basket and balloon at this point still have not been found. investigators from the national transportation safety board and the faa are on the scene just north of richmond, we're told. they gave us an update just a few moments ago. >> it's a very rural area, it's very dense, wooded, a lot of undergrowth and it just takes time. it's a very meticulous process when you're doing a grid search. we will stay here until the third occupant is located and of course as we continue to hopefully find the wreckage of the basket and the balloon too. >> the balloon was one of more than a dozen that took off friday night as part of an event there in virginia. witnesses say they heard an explosion, then they saw the balloon simply fall out of sight. we'll have a live report from the scene in just minutes.

also today, grieving families in nigeria continue to wait for news about the nearly 300 girls abducted from their school. those girls were kidnapped nearly three weeks ago now. first lady michelle obama today joined the course of worldwide disgust. mrs. obama devoted her first-ever white house weekly address, her first-ever solo address, she devoted it to the abduction. >> this unconscionable act was committed by a terrorist group determined to keep these girls from getting an education. grown men attempting to snuff out the aspirations of young girls. >> outraged nigerians also demonstrated today, and u.s. military advisers and international aid workers have arrived to help nigerian forces find the girls. nbc's stephanie gosk is live for us in neighboring cameroon's capital city. stephanie, what are we hearing about what the nigerian

government is doing right now? >> hey, craig. it seems some of that pressure, both domestic and international, is having an effect on the nigerian government. they announced they're going to be moving two military divisions up to the north in that region where they believe the girls may be held at this moment. we also know that they have asked for international help. one group of u.s. military personnel arrived on friday. another will be traveling over the weekend. they have asked for help also from the u.k., france, china, all contributing in the search for the girls. still no word on where they are or how they are doing. amidst all of that, the violence continues. this group, boko haram, struck again today. they hit a bridge on the border between nigeria and chad, very similar to an attack here in cameroon earlier in the week that killed as many as 30 people. there's also the abduction of family members of a police official in the northern part of this country. a part of this country that has essentially become lawless in recent months. >> stephanie, how is it that

boko haram has been able to continue moving essentially at will with so much attention on them from all over the world now? >> reporter: it is pretty remarkable, but you have to know a little bit about the history of northern nigeria in recent years to understand it. this group started in the '90s and has entrenched itself in an area that has for the most part been kind of forgotten by the rest of nigeria. the economy is bad, there are no jobs. they have gained force in this region, and now have struck this insurgency, which is about four years old, and has really started in earnest in the last four months. this has been a string of violence. kidnappings, bombings, they have attacked groups of doctors that have been trying to vaccinate kids against polio. they have attacked a number of schools. and the government has been criticized regularly for not putting the kind of military presence that is needed to control them, and now you see they're trying to correct that

course, sending up these divisions but there will certainly be a lot of people wondering why it took nearly a month to move them up there. >> stephanie gosk, thank you. retired u.s. army general carter hamm, the general commanded the u.s. africa command from 2011 to 2013. general, thanks for being with me this afternoon. >> thanks, craig. >> first of all, i don't even know how to phrase this. i'll just ask you, how likely is it at this point that these girls are going to be found alive and brought back home? how likely is it that they have not already been shipped off to neighboring countries? >> well, craig, i think it is likely that many have probably been moved outside of the country. almost certainly they have been dispersed into small groups, perhaps even as individuals. but the key thing is, there is hope and there must remain hope. and until such time as all the girls are accounted for, i think nigeria has a significant responsibility to pursue all possible options to bring them

safely home. i'm glad that the united states and others have offered and are helping the nigerian government. >> your former command is going to be part of that american effort to help find these girls. specifically, what can they do? >> i think first and foremost, the nigerians probably are asking for intelligence support. the nigerians and the nations neighboring nigeria all have very good and sophisticated human intelligence networks, and i'm certain that those have been activated and they're seeking to get all the information they can. but technical intelligence. overhead surveillance, persistent collection, signals intelligence and the analysis of that all source information is something that the united states and others are quite good at and i suspect we're probably helping them in that regard. >> i want to pivot here and talk to you about benghazi. i'm sure you're aware of the new panel that was convened this

week to dig deeper into what happened the night in 2012 when you were in charge there in africa. i know you've testified. what questions are left to be answered that have not been -- that have not been answered yet or are there any? >> i think first and foremost, we should remember that night that four brave americans were killed. for them and for their families, the nation should remain eternally grateful. with regard to the military aspect of the events in benghazi, i think the chairman of the house armed services committee probably summarized it best. after many hearings both open and closed, classified and unclassified, a parade of witnesses to include myself and many others, the chairman has concluded that the united states military, given how fast the attack occurred and how quickly it subsided, the time distance that is involved, that the military acted properly. and i think that has been

completely investigated and answered. >> so why another panel? why another investigation? >> i can't answer that. you know, obviously coming from a military background and that was the aspect of it that my testimony and meetings with members of congress focused on. >> are you optimistic that another investigation is going to shed any new light on the thing? >> i'm optimistic because that's hour form of government. >> that sounds like a very diplomatic way of saying you're not optimistic that they're going to find anything new. >> but it's more than that, craig. the oath -- the oath that each military person takes begins with support and defend the constitution of the united states. this is our process. and whether our personal views agree or disagree, it is the process and that's got to have to move forward. >> you testified that it was fairly clear from the outset that it was in fact a terror attack. did you get the support that you

needed from washington? >> absolutely. every capability that i asked of through general dempsey, who was the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff and secretary panetta, then secretary of defense, every capability i asked for was provided. >> was a military strike by the united states, by our forces, was it possible at that time? >> it was not, partly because of the time distances involved and partly because of how quickly the attack occurred and then largely subsided. >> looking back really quickly, is there anything different that you would have done that night? >> two things. i think one of which has occurred. i would have -- i should have put more effort into expediting the movement of the people from benghazi back to tripoli once the surviving americans were all consolidated and relatively safe havened at a second u.s. facility in benghazi. the second and more important

and longer lasting is that the department of defense has since benghazi stationed more capable response forces in the region. >> do you think that the issue itself has been politicized since? >> that's not for an old soldier to comment upon. >> i knew that was going to be your answer but i had to ask anyway. general, thank you. >> thanks, craig. more whistleblowers are now coming forward as the scandal surrounding wait times at the va as that scandal continues to grow. all of this comes after allegations this week that administrators in phoenix, arizona, kept an off-the-books list to conceal long wait times as some 40 veterans died waiting to get an appointment. but it's not just confined to phoenix. clerks in wyoming and texas have revealed information about problems there as well. arizona senator john mccain held a town hall meeting with veterans and fair families in phoenix friday, and those folks demanded answers and

accountability. >> it took months. they wouldn't call us back. finally when they did, the appointments were set out two months in advance. >> look, if these allegations are true, if these allegations are true, they are a violation of law, and it's not a matter of resignations, it's a matter of whether somebody goes to jail or not. >> let's head to jennifer bjorklund for us. jennifer, what more do we know about precisely why these clerks were allegedly told to change these waiting times? >> reporter: craig, it's a difficult question but the answer seems to be in the law. the va mandate is a veteran seeking care must be seen within two weeks. they have a 14-day window. and an impossible list of waiting. so in this case in cheyenne, wyoming, the whistleblower there said they were instructed to actually change the dates on some of the appointment lists to make everything line up and have no backlog.

here in phoenix, they went as far as to allegedly open up a screen, set an appointment, put all the information in, printout a screen shot of the screen and then delete all the information in those lines. so you're coming for a follow-up appointment and say, okay, my 14 days are here. there's no record you were ever here, it's gone. you just have the paper in your hand which, you know, isn't worth anything unless it's in the system, craig. >> jennifer bjorklund from phoenix. thank you for that update. russian separatists in eastern ukraine are preparing for tomorrow's referendum which some leaders in kiev say could be a catastrophe. more from ukraine ahead. we'll go live there. also ahead, funding education by the sale of something that used to be illegal in most places. this is msnbc. e a question, how much money do you think you'll need when you retire? then we gave each person a ribbon to show how many years that amount might last. i was trying to, like, pull it a little further.

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welcome back. let's get you caught up on some of the top headlines this saturday afternoon. we start with this developing story from arkansas which right now is becoming the first state in the south to issue same-sex marriage licenses. you are seeing the first couple right there. friday a judge in arkansas struck down that state's voter-approved ban on the unions. the ruling was issued without a stay, but the legality of today's marriages will most surely be in some sort of legal limbo. the arkansas attorney general says he plans to appeal friday's ruling, despite, despite his personal support for marriage equality. meanwhile, it is commencement weekend across the country. louisiana governor bobby jindal made his way to liberty university today. that religious school is a well-known essential stop for any republican even thinking about a run for president. jindal talked openly about his christian faith. he also criticized so-called

elites for waging war on religious liberty. >> our religious freedom was won over the course of centuries of persecution and blood, and we should not surrender them without a fight. make no mistake, the war over religious liberty is the war over free speech. without the first, there's no such thing as the second. >> and there's a new man in charge of the l.a. clippers today. his name is dick parsons. he's been named the interim ceo. he takes over that embattled team as scandal continues to surround owner donald sterling. parsons is the former chairman of time warner and citigroup. earlier today here in new york, evidence that the investigation into the september 11th attacks is not over. all of the nearly 8,000 unidentified remains of 9/11 victims were moved from a temporary facility. they are now in a specially built repository at the world trade center site in lower manhattan. this plan is not new, but

nonetheless it's now mired in controversy. the mayor's office tells us this is not a final resting place and the work to identify the remains will continue on a daily basis, but some families are quite upset that the remains are being housed in the same building as the national september 11th memorial and museum, a museum that charges admission when it opens. joining me now, his brother-in-law was in the south to your and his remains have never been found. let's start with this morning. i know you were there. how did things go? >> it was just kind of opening up an old wound, one that never really heals. we want to go down and pay our respects to our loved ones as well, but the fact that they are putting them in the basement 70 feet below ground in what is essentially presented as an exhibit of a museum we find very

distasteful, extremely offensive and equally disgraceful in the fact that during this whole process, 9/11 family members, the loved ones of those killed on 9/11 have had virtually no input as to the decision-making process as to where the human remains will be interred. >> we called new york mayor bill de blasio's office and they gave us a statement. our administration has engaged the community and 9/11 families continuously since entering office four months ago. this includes talking with and listening to families who have questions about this plan as well as many families who are supportive and comfortable with this plan. what's your response to that? >> i have heard that quote and that is just completely untrue. >> they haven't reached out to the families? >> not that the groups and families i am associated with. maybe the ones in support of this plan. but the ones in opposition,

which i am part of, none of us have heard from the mayor's office. we have reached out and would like to meet with the mayor, but we haven't had any discussion. we've had virtually no discussion. >> when did you first hear about the plan? >> to house them in the basement? >> right. and to actually do it today, the day before mother's day. >> i did hear house them in the basement, or what we call the basement, 70 feet below ground in a museum and we've been fighting this plan all that time. the fact that they were going to move them today was only revealed about a week ago. many family members that i spoke to still do not know that it happened today. >> still don't know. >> the notification process was abominable. >> what's the next move going to be for you and your groups? >> part of the memorial museum and the city talking points is that we are averse and against bringing the remains back to ground zero. we are not. we are just against them being

70 -- what we call disgraceful feet below ground. we want something more akin to a tomb of the unknowns on plaza level, at ground zero level. to me -- or to us, the remains of the victims are the essential element of 9/11. if trees and water falls can have a place of prominence on the plaza level, surely we believe that the remains should have such a place of prominence as well. >> all right. i'm going to leave it there. keep us up to date on what's happened, okay? >> i appreciate it. >> lieutenant jim mccaffrey. a note now on a story we found. while it is still true that sticks and stones may break your bones, it is also true that words can in fact hurt you apparently. there's a new study out and it finds that adolescent girls who are called fat by family and close friends are more likely to become overweight or obese as teenagers and young adults. those findings are part of a

decades-long study on the word "fat" and its impact on the human psyche. it's being called the other "f" word. the full story is on our website, msnbc.com/craig-melvin. and this is my son, chris. i'm a messy person. i don't like cleaning. i love my son, but he never cleans up. always leaves a trail of crumbs behind. you're gonna have a problem with getting a wife. uh...yeah, i guess. [ laughs ] this is ridiculous. christopher glenn! [ doorbell rings ] what is that? swiffer sweep & trap. i think i could use this. it picks up everything. i like this. that's a lot of dirt. just that easy. good job, chris. i think a woman will probably come your way. [ both laugh ]

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has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a delicious taste. grandpa! [ female announcer ] stay strong, stay active with boost. let's get to an update on an exclusive interview we first shared with you here last month. it has to do with crystal moore. you'll remember she was the police chief of latta, south carolina. that was until she was abruptly fired by that town's new mayor. moore and her supporters say she was let go because she was openly gay. the mayor says this is a personnel issue and has nothing to do with sexual orientation. the story gained traction when a story was on television with him

making comments. the town councilman said he recorded it without the mayor's permission. take a listen. >> i would much rather have, and i will say this to anybody's face, i would much rather have somebody who drank and drank too much taking care of my child than i had somebody whose lifestyle is questionable around children, because that ain't the damn way that it's supposed to be. >> mayor bullard has told us that he does not know if that's actually his voice on the tape. we've invited the mayor to appear several times and he's declined. e-mailing us this week, quote, if miss moore will give the town a release for us to speak of her situation, i will be glad to discuss the matter with you. if miss moore has nothing to hide, she should be willing to sign such a release. crystal moore says the mayor is free to talk. meanwhile, people in latta are set to vote next month on

whether to take away some of the mayor's power. crystal moore joins me from columbia, south carolina, along with the latta town councilman who made the recording you just heard. crystal, when we last spoke you had just been fired and were trying to figure out your next move. where does your situation stand right now? >> i am still waiting to hear. we did ask for a public hearing through my attorney, so just like he says, i have nothing to hide. there is no such release, as he keeps telling people, so i decided to ask for a public hearing. that will be up to him. hopefully he will grand me that open and public hearing and it's going to be may 19th at 1:00. >> so this release stuff is just bull, is that what you're saying? >> yes. there is no such paperwork to be released. he gave me the seven bogus reprimands the day that i was fired. all i did was ask to speak to my attorney, and on the third time when i told him i needed to

speak to the attorney, he told me i was no longer needed, to turn in my badge, gun and keys. >> jared, i want to talk to you a minute here about this recording. set the scene for us. we've heard the tapes now a number of times. when was this? where were you? what were you talking about? and why did you record the conversation? >> yes, sir. we had had a conversation earlier in the day too much mayor bullard had been less than forthcoming and truthful to myself and another councilman. and after being told pretty much a story as to what actually transpired. i decided any time i had run-ins with the mayor to protect myself i would record him. that way if he ever came back and said i didn't say anything, i can always come back and say, yes, this is what i said or this isn't what i said and here's the proof. that particular conversation was made after a council meeting in

which we were discussing another employee's driving history, and it happened to involve alcohol and that particular comment was made in reference to the alcohol situation. >> so you've been recording the mayor -- you've been recording him for a while, just all of your interactions with him? >> yes, sir. to this day i still record all my interactions with the mayor. >> so you have other recordings as well? >> yes, sir. >> other recordings where the mayor says things like this? >> not quite as blatant. he does make a comment in one conversation when he's talking about the recreation department of latta. he says that the rednecks of latta are upset with him because he hired a young, educated black male and he goes on to say that the problem in latta is so evident that even helen keller

and ray charles could see the problem. i think that just further goes to show that he has issues with people of difference than he is. >> crystal, again, the mayor has said that you were fired because of seven demerits that you got in one day. walk us through again what those demerits were and why you insist they're bogus. >> just for several of them, i've done nothing but my job. one of them was that i did a background check illegally. being in the supervisor side of it, i actually have to run background checks for the police department when i'm hiring for the police department. that's covered by our town policy. he has accused me of running a background check on the young man, the recreation director, but that was by my officer at the time after he was arrested, after the rec director was

arrested it's protocol for a background history to be ran for the judge to set his bond. but he's accusing me of running his criminal history. >> have you -- what's the end game for you here, crystal? do you want your job back in latta or are you over that now? >> no, sir, i want my job back. i've done nothing wrong. all i've done is what the law tells me. i have policies and procedures and i also have recordings, because we have been having this problem with the mayor telling different untruths basically. >> you have recordings of what? what do you have recordings of? >> just five days and seven days before he fired me, i have him stating that i've done a wonderful job. that the rumors behind me, there's no way he's going to fire me, he stands behind me for the job i've done, and then all

of a sudden -- >> why don't you release these tapes? >> that's why we want a public hearing so everybody will see those tapes on the 19th at my public hearing. >> really quickly, jarett, we understand the council voted on a move to ban the mayor from appointing another chief for 60 days. what more does the council hope to do? >> actually he's actually questioning whether that emergency ordinance is even valid. he doesn't understand the fact that his decision to hire another chief in such a short time, if the referendum does in fact pass june 24th, the council has voted and given chief moore their confidence and she will get her job back if everything else is as it is today and we don't want him to hastily hire someone else and put someone else in a position where we're going to have to terminate their employment. so he's actually questioning the

emergency ordinance, but to date it still stands. and so until the referendum takes place june 24th, there's not too much more that the council can do under our mayor/council form of government. >> crystal moore, councilman taylor, thanks for your time. again, we should note that we have invited mayor bullard to come on this show. we hope that he accepts our invitation soon. coming up, here's an idea being floated in south carolina. legalizing pot to fund schools. we'll talk to the local official there who is pushing that plan. stay with us. [ female announcer ] crest presents: crest 3d white whitestrips vs. a whitening pen. i feel like i'm going to miss a spot. i think you actually might have. i feel like my lips are going to, like, wash it off. these fit nicely. wait, it says to use up to four times a day? oh, gosh. i'm not going to do that. [ female announcer ] crest 3d white whitestrips adhere to your teeth evenly and safely remove stains below the enamel surface for professional level results that last up to 12 months. this says it removes 14 years of stains. it doesn't tell me how many stains it removes. [ female announcer ] crest 3d white whitestrips.

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an update on that developing story in virginia. we now know that two of the three people on board a hot air balloon were killed when it caught fire and crashed. the difficult search continues right now for the third person who was on board. nbc's luke russert joins me live now from virginia just north of richmond. luke, at this point what do we know about where those search

efforts stand? >> reporter: well, the search efforts are ongoing as we speak, craig, and it's a massive search operation. there's over 100 personnel involved as well as over 20 state troopers and the civil air patrol. they also have canine units they're deploying a sort of grid method where a lot of people walk and they hope to come upon the remains of the last individual or perhaps some debris of the wreckage. it started last night. they were not able to have air support last night because of the weather. that cleared up this morning and the daylight has been really helpful. they found two out of the three victims over the last 12 hours, but interestingly enough, craig, we're starting to get varying reports about who the victims may have been. nothing has been confirmed as of yet, but the community now has sort of shifted from the search to undergoing a mourning period, if you will. >> luke, what more do we know? i know this hot air balloon was part of a larger display last night. what else do we know about what happened last night?

>> so right behind me at this meadow farm it was to be a sort of hot air balloon festival. it was a three-day event. there was over 20 hot balloons, a lot of enthusiasts were coming here to practice their hobby. last night about 13 balloons went up for a little happy hour sale and three of them were supposed to come down. two of them landed okay. upon landing, this one that ended up exploding actually ruptured a 4 lipower line. that started a fire on board. that fire caused an explosion. horrific things played out. one person on board the basket shouted "oh, my god, i'm going to die." when that happened, the balloon separated from the basket. the balloon went flying one way, the basket fell. they're trying to find both of those right now. and they could have incinerated because the fire was so strong after hitting that electrical wire. >> all right. nbc's luke russert for us. keep us posted.

>> reporter: will do. take care. let's pivot to the crisis in ukraine n a matter of hours, people in ukraine's eastern region will head to the polls to vote on whether to declare its sovereignty. the vote by pro-russian separatists would make the eastern region independent from the government in kiev. the referendum follows deadly violence friday. at least seven people were killed in clashes in maripol. richard engel is monitoring all of this for us from donetsk, ukraine. do we know what effect yesterday's violence will have on tomorrow's vote? >> reporter: i think it's also important to understand, craig, this is not a normal vote. the ukrainian government does not recognize this vote. the u.s. doesn't recognize it. europe doesn't recognize it. the only people who will actually accept the legitimacy of this referendum will be certain separatists here in eastern ukraine and very likely

moscow. so this is not a normal election. there are no international monitors here. there are no official polling stations. it is an ad hoc referendum that is being held by a fairly large number of separatists here in order to move their case that the government in kiev no longer represents them. that is a hostile government and in their opinion it is a fascist, nazi government. the violence that has been continuing here against these russian separatists from the government in kiev only reinforces their case. yesterday in mariopol, a city just south of here, the government in kiev launched a series of military operations to drive out russian separatists. they had taken over a police station. the soldiers, the ukrainian soldiers, were ultimately successful in dislodging these russian separatists. but in the process of this military operation, they killed,

the estimates are anywhere between 7 and 20 people, turned the downtown into a war zone and alienated a lot of people. so in this climate of fear and tension, the separatists are holding this referendum tomorrow. >> and we know at this point that russia's president, vladimir putin, that he pushed these pro-russian separatists to postpone the vote and they decided not to do that. what are russia's calculations here, what are putin's calculations? >> reporter: i wish i knew what putin's calculations were. i've spoken with some u.s. government officials and they are saying the same thing. because vladimir putin did call on the separatists who are pro-russian separatists here to postpone the referendureferendu. the separatists thought about it for about 12 hours and said, no, we're going to go ahead and hold the referendum. then yesterday when putin

visited crimea, he seemed to encourage the referendum, calling out all those who love russia to rejoin with the motherland. what putin's calculations seem to be is he wants to revive the glory of the soviet union. he's already annexed crimea and seems to be putting down a lot of markers and winning a lot of influence here in eastern ukraine. >> nbc's richard engel for us, live on the ground in donetsk, ukraine. richard, thank you, as always. up next, farming in the city and feeding the needy in the process. it is today's big idea. ♪ thoutful combinations, artfully prepared. fancy feast elegant medleys. inspired dishes like primavera, florentine and tuscany. fancy feast. a medley of love, served daily. ♪ ♪fame, makes a man take things over♪ ♪fame, lets him loose, hard to swallow♪

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healthy food for those who need it with its own hydroponic farm. it's helped them grow spinach, lettuce, all within four walls. caitlin brazil is the president of strategic partnerships. why this technique? why did you decide to try this? >> thanks for having us. you know, we've been working 37 years to figure out ways to alleviate poverty. it turns out hydro ponic is an efficient way to grow it. we are growing 4,000 heads of lettuce with staff and volunteers, many of whom have never set foot on a traditional farm. >> and what's the advantage to this method? >> well, it's cheap, it's clean, it's easy to do year round, it's something that can really engage our community.

so we have high school students who are managing the farm, they built the farm themselves. they're in there every day checking water levels, making sure the ph is okay. these 18, 19-year-old kids are looking at vegetables like they are their very own babies. >> i would imagine it's also for a food pantry, probably a lot easier to grow your own food instead of relying on others to donate. >> absolutely. i mean be do both. we get generous donations and we couldn't possibly support everything we need. we reach 5,000 people a month, so our garden is not hitting it all. and of course at first our customers were a little skeptical on what they were calling science food. but now people embrace it. they're getting the freshest produce in brooklyn. >> is this something that you think can go natural or have you seen it start to happen nationally? >> absolutely. we're not even the only hydroponic farm in brookbrookly >> but you're the only

hydroponin food pantry. >> we are. and we're talking about the size of a large walk-in closet that produces 4,000 heads of lettuce every year. it's a terrific way to use the space we've got and the incredible talent and enthusiasm of our community. >> we sent our producer over there and he was quite impressed at the operation. good for you guys. thanks for stopping by to tell us a little more about it. it's today's big idea. >> thank you so much. and do you have a big idea that's making a difference? you can let us know on twitter. you can use the #what'sthebigidea. obvious transition here, legalizing pot to pay for school books. i'm kidding, i'm kidding. that's the idea of one local official in south carolina. we'll go back to the palmetto state on the other side of this break. she's going to join us live. of s can help your kids' school get extra stuff. they're the only cereals with box tops for education.

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there is a blunt new

proposal by one leader in south carolina for how to pay for education. sheila gallagher is a former president of the state education association. she is now running for state superintendent of education and she wants to get more green in the classrooms by legalizing green. >> it isn't about getting high, it's good investing $188 million every year until we have the best schools in the nation. >> as you might imagine, this is creating quite the buzz in the palmetto state of t. here now from south carolina, sheila gallagher. as we mentioned, candidate for state superintendent of education. sheila, good to see you. quite simply, how did you come up with this idea? >> it started when we noticed how much money colorado and the state of washington was making once they legalized it. >> do you -- >> and of course i -- >> go ahead. >> our state house then again underfunded the public schools,

so -- >> the state teachers union, which you used to head, applauded your creativity but said, quote, the scea remains confident that additional revenue streams for education can be identified perhaps through policies to reduce unnecessary tax exemptions to businesses locating here or to increase the quantity of taxable property. what's your response to that? >> well, we've had that idea out there. you know, we had the house of representatives and the senate pass the whole tax exemption with act 388 and we've been trying to get rid of that when they swapped property tax and sales tax. so we've been trying these ideas and they haven't worked. so it would be good to just legalize marijuana, decriminalize it, add some money that way, and let's go ahead and put money into our public schools. >> governor nikki haley, governor of south carolina, has proposed roughly $175 in new

education spending. the state legislature is working on a budget right now. are there problems in education in that state and others? are they really something you can throw money at or do we really need to take a good, hard look at what's going on inside our classrooms and take a look at our per pupil spending right now and how that money is being allocated? >> i think it's important to look at what's going on in school. i i think the public would be surprised the bang they're getting for their buck. but the whole issue does come around to resources. you've got to make smaller class sizes, especially in pre-k through third grade. and you need our educational support persons more to be in the classroom with our teachers. and so when you're talking about better compensation for our teachers and our educational support persons, putting in more resourc resources, expanding our broadband here in south carolina, you are talking about much-needed resources. >> state funding for the

anti-program dare ended in 2003. there's an interesting juxtaposition. on one hand you've got kids who are taught starting at a very early age that pot is dangerous. how do you justify that while telling them it's dangerous but good enough to pay for your education. >> it's not just fiction. we know drugs are out there. one of the things you want to do is stop putting kids in jail just because they were smoking pot. and i don't mean kids, i mean young people. so you teach them exactly what dare is supposed to be teaching them, that drugs are wrong, what happens to their bodies physically, emotionally. we continue with that program but know that it still happens, just like with alcohol. your basis is the same. if you abuse it, you're in trouble. >> sheila gallagher, we'll leave it there. running for south carolina superintendent of education. sheila, thank you. >> thank you, craig. good to see you. >> good to see you. up next, the uproar over alleged mismanagement at va hospitals all over this country. we'll hear from the person who

blew the whistle on the scandal. plus there's a new man taking the top spot of the l.a. clippers. what will that mean for embattled donald sterling? this is msnbc. awesome, amazing, that's epic, bro. whatever happened to good? good is choosing not to overshoot the moon, but to land right on it. good is maxwell house. ♪ good to the last drop constipated? .yea dulcolax tablets can cause cramps but not phillips. it has magnesium and works more naturally than stimulant laxatives. for gentle cramp free relief of occasional constipation that works! mmm mmm live the regular life.

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two years in a row. in these girls, barack and i see our own daughters. we see their hopes and their dreams, and we can only imagine the anguish their parents are feeling right now. >> the first lady joins the millions calling for the release of nearly 300 school girls kidnapped in nigeria. meanwhile in ukraine, high tension as a top official warns russian separatists in the eastern half of his country they would be courting catastrophe if they voted yes in tomorrow's referendum. >> people do think that we are the anomaly and that, you know, every shooter in the united states is a 50-year-old white guy. >> women shouldn't have a gun, they don't know how to use it, they're just going to hurt somebody. it's not true at all. >> women are a big force in the

anti-gun movement now, but the nra and others are banking that they may be the key to their cause. >> this is about judgment. should we, should we as a country have a commander in chief who didn't provide adequate security in libya. my opinion is that hillary clinton has precluded herself from ever being considered for that position. >> so how much of a liability will the benghazi controversy be for hillary clinton and will she be subpoenaed by that newly formed house committee. the man who signs marriage licenses in north carolina says he will be signing them for same-sex couples. i'll talk to him ahead. and king of pop has a new album out nearly five years after his death. we'll get a debut days before its release. i'm craig melvin. you are watching msnbc. we start with more outrage coming from veterans and their families over those wait times at va hospitals and big claims of a cover-up. allegations surfaced earlier

this week about secret efforts to falsely make va patient waiting times appear shorter. now more whistle blowers are coming forward. kelly o'donnell starts us off with the very latest. >> are you going to do what's right for the veterans, sir? >> reporter: veterans and their families are demanding answers and accountability. >> it took months for them to see him. they wouldn't call us back. >> reporter: this widening scandal first surfaced at the phoenix veterans administration hospital. with allegations that records were secretly altered to show shorter waiting times for patient appointments to meet va standards. >> we were betrayed. myself, other veterans. >> reporter: senator john mccain, who held a town hall meeting on the controversy friday, said this could lead to criminal charges. >> this is the first time i've ever seen an outright what apparently, allegedly is an outright cover-up. >> reporter: going beyond arizona, a texas va medical

clerk, brian turner, tells nbc news that clerks in the san antonio and austin offices were coached to change numbers and dates to erase wait times of weeks or months. >> if you had a longer time frame than the 14-day window, you would receive a report and they would tell you, you need to change this. >> reporter: va officials said turner's claims were not substantiated. turning to wyoming. nbc news obtained an e-mail where a va staffer described the practice of altering dates, writing, yes, it is gaming the system a bit, but you have to know the rules of the game you are playing. adding, the front office gets very upset when wait times go past 14 days. veterans affairs secretary eric shinseki ordered an investigation of the wyoming office and put an employee on leave. >> i'm very disappointed in the evidence that we have so far. it's tragic and it's

unacceptable. >> that was kelly o'donnell reporting there. we are also watching new developments this afternoon in nigeria. overwhelming emotions have gripped the families of the nearly 300 girls who were abducted from a school in the northern part of that country three weeks ago now. back here, first lady michelle obama spoke today on behalf of the global concern for the missing victims as she took her husband's place to deliver the white house weekly address. this was her first solo address. listen. >> like millions of people across the globe, my husband and i are outraged and heart broken over the kidnapping of more than 200 nigerian girls from their school dormitory in the middle of the night. >> the first lady is also among the hundreds of thousands who have taken to twitter with the hash tag #bringbackourgirls to bring global pressure to bear on the kidnappers. also ukraine's acting president is warning against

self-destruction on the eve of a referendum in two eastern cities to declare that region's sovereignty. tomorrow's vote by pro-russian separatists would make the eastern region independent from the central ukrainian government in kiev. but only pro-russian separatists in moscow will accept the results of that, quote, referendum. the separatists have attacked and seized government buildings and clashed with ukrainian troops. it comes after violence grips the region. i want to bring in reuters investigative journalist david rhode, also a contributing editor to "the atlantic." we heard from richard engel just a few moments ago in donetsk and his contention is basically tomorrow's vote, it's a sham. how much of a sham is it? >> no one even knows what this vote means. it's similar to the referendum in crimea. the ballot says do you support

self determination for donetsk. does that mean independence, does that mean you're joining ukraine, does that mean you're joining russia? there's a lot of frightened residents that are stuck between the ukrainian army and the pro-russian militia and it sounds chaotic. >> the vote is largely symbolic? >> yes. it's essentially an effort to show they do have support in these two regions, the separatists. the big question is what happens in two weeks. that's when there's supposed to be this ukrainian presidential election. given the fighting, it's a very dangerous situation. >> earlier this week russia's president, vladimir putin, called on these pro-russian separatists to postpone tomorrow's vote. apparently they thought about it shortly and decided, no, we're not going to do that. is putin losing control now over the separatists? >> it's unclear. some people say he just said that to try to stop germany and stop harsher economic sanctions. if he hasn't already, he's going

to lose control of these militias. when you have these situations, it reminds me of yugoslavia. each side is calling the other terrorists and fascists. this is not good, this is approaching civil war. putin needs to be careful about what forces he's unleashed here. >> how do you think tomorrow's vote will play out? >> no one will know what the vote is and the people organizing it says it's 100% for self-determination and who knows what that means. >> thank you for your insight, sir. shifting now to los angeles where it's the first full day of a much-needed new direction for the embattled los angeles clippers. former citigroup and time warner chief executive dick parsons is taking over the team as interim ceo amid the scandal of owner donald sterling. earlier this week the celebrity website radaronline published what it says is a new audio recording of sterling. nbc has not independently authenticated this recording. here's a little bit of it,

though. >> i'm talking to a girl. i'm trying to have sex with her. i'm trying to play with her. what -- you know, if you were trying to have sex with a girl and you're talking to her privately and you don't think anybody's there, you may saying in the world. i know i'm wrong, what i said was wrong, but i never thought the private conversation would go anywhere. out to the public. i didn't want her to bring anybody to my games because i was jealous. i mean, i'm being honest. >> and the news gets worse for the clippers. they lost their playoff game last night to oklahoma city. they're down 2-1 right now in that series. rob from nbc sports radio network is here. aultz good to see you, thanks for stopping by. first of all, let's start with dick parsons. what does this appointment of parsons as ceo mean? >> well, it just gives the

clippers a chance to turn the page. there was really no one in l.a. running that organization day to day. the previous ceo, a guy named andy rosier took a leave of absence after sterling was banned for life because he was very closely tied to sterling. he had said some things defending sterling so he was obviously not the guy. the nba needed someone with great credentials. i'm sure they wanted someone who was african-american. that's certainly a plus as well. they certainly have a great person to see the organization through what's going to be i think a long period of instability while this ownership situation gets sorted out. >> there are some who are already saying here's parsons, a guy who's no stranger to some scandal himself. former chairman of time warner and citigroup. he was one of the guys hauled in to testify before congress back in 2008 along with other execs to defend his big wall street salary during the height of the mortgage crisis. is he the best choice?

>> i think he's an impeccable choice, to be honest. yes, he was a banking executive during a period of time when banking executives were not very popular in this country. that arguably continues to this day. but, you know, he's got experience as a ceo of a major media organization. that company, by the way, time warner, owned the atlanta braves baseball club during the time, part of the time that he was ceo so he has some background with sports but most importantly he's just a guy with a great deal of credibility around this country as a manager, as a ceo, and also a good thing for the nba, not someone who's going to want that job for the long term. he's not looking to be sports executive long term, so he'll take this. when the job is done, he'll leave. >> let's get back to donald sterling for a moment and this new audio. a man identified as sterling basically says that he's not a racist and he's just a jealous lover. is there any amount of damage control at this point that can

save donald sterling? >> wouldn't you just stop talking on the phone if you were him at this point? >> you should always assume you're being taped. >> unless you've got the place completely, you know, shaken down to know there's no recording, just keep your mouth shut if you're donald sterling. but listen, there's nothing he can say at this point that's going to fix anything or change anything. the damage is done. the pr damage to the nba, the loss of sponsors, the general nightmare that this has been for the clippers organization and the nba can't be put back in the bottle. now the question is only about his legal position as owner and how hard he and his wife, shelly, are going to fight to try to keep control of that team. >> real quickly before i let you go, the nfl draft in its third and final day now. a lot of folks looking to see if michael sam gets drafted. if he does, he becomes the first openly gay player in the league. at last check that had not happened. it would seem as if the nfl is in a tough spot here.

if michael sam doesn't get drafted, here you've got an all-american defensive player, if that doesn't happen, there are going to be a lot of folks who don't follow sports closely who will say, well, he wasn't picked because he's gay. >> listen, i'm sure that roger goodell would like to see michael sam drafted this weekend. there's still plenty of time for that to happen. it it doesn't happen, he can still catch on as a free agent. you see a lot of guys undrafted go on to sign with teams and be successful. his stock dropped a little bit after the nfl combine. he did not have a great performance at the combine, but there's still lots of opportunity for him to catch on with an nfl team. >> sounds like you're certain that he's going to play for an nfl team? >> i think he'll at least get a good shot at playing, either as a drafted player or free agent. someone will give him a shot, i think so. >> rob, always good to see you, sir. thank you. >> pleasure. see you later. earlier today, first lady michelle obama gave the commencement address at dillard university, one of america's

historically black colleges and universities. some of those schools are having trouble with funding and some of the problems are tied directly to the government. dillard's president will talk to me about that straight ahead. first, the national rifle association and others are encouraging women to take up arms as a way to protect their kids. i'll talk to one prominent gun rights activist and we'll also talk about why she got my twitter feed blown up today. next. what's a powerful way to cut through everyday greasy messes? [ male announcer ] sponges take your mark. ♪ [ female announcer ] one drop of ultra dawn has twice the everyday grease cleaning ingredients of one drop of the leading non-concentrated brand... ♪ [ crowd cheering ] ...to clean 2x more greasy dishes. dawn does more. so it's not a chore. so, what'd you think of the house? did you see the school rating? oh, you're right. hey, babe, i got to go. bye, daddy. have a good day at school, okay?

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www.ntsb.gov. that report will be released within ten days. then within a year, a factual report will be released and after that the five-member safety board will determine a probable cause that will be released a few months later. at this time i have a few minutes for questions, so let's start with anybody. >> is there any indication -- [ inaudible ] >> that's part of the environment section that we'll be investigating. we'll be looking into that. i pulled the data but didn't get a chance to examine it but i am looking into it. >> do we know when this balloon was last inspected and also have you looked into the pilot's record? >> that's a great question. the maintenance records of the balloon have not been recovered yet but we are looking for them.

we will try and obtain that evidence and, again, we will examine it. as for the pilot records, the same thing. have not been obtained yet but we'll look into them once we get them. any other questions? >> can you repeat that number again. >> the registration number? it is november 30 -- >> we are going to monitor this news conference. we'll continue to listen in and pass along any new developments if we get an update on the investigation into precisely what happened to that hot air balloon that went down last night in rural virginia just north of richmond. it sounds like the search is going to continue for the third person. turning now, advocates for stronger gun regulations have long focused on women to help make their point on gun safety. well funded groups like moms demand action and every town for

gun safety have held demonstrations for gun law reform across the country, but nra is fighting back to win the hearts of women gun owners and to convince a new generation of women that it's okay to own a firearm. linda elliott is the national spokesperson for one million moms against gun control. she joins me live now. you founded the group, i understand, linda, you founded it shortly after the anti-gun violence group moms demand action was formed. how did a gun regulation group inspire you to start your regulation? >> i'm just a board member, but i'm very proud to be friends with the founder. her name is heather. she founded the group, organization because she was upset that moms demand action was speaking to every mother. not for her. it's okay to be a mom and own a gun and we just want to have the voice and the opportunity to say so and encourage other women as well. >> so the group itself was

created in direct response to moms demand action? >> yes, sir. >> women gun owners are still fairly a distinct minority in this country. just about 12% of gun owners are women, according to a 2013 pew study. why do you think there are so few gun owners in this country? >> you know, with what i do, i've been all over colorado with the work that i do for the organization, and a lot of it is intimidation. there's the fact that there are so many women that believe that you can't be a mom and own a firearm because that automatically makes you a bad mom, and then there's also the fact that we're so new. we don't want to embarrass ourselves. we don't want to feel uncomfortable and to take the step to get out to the range and actually fire a firearm if you haven't been around them. it's a big task to undertake and that is what keeps so many women from having the courage to do so. >> advocates of stronger gun

regulations point to some sobering statistics. the centers for disease control finds that firearm homicides and firearm suicides are the second and fourth leading causes of death among young people between the ages of 15 and 24. firearm violence ninth leading cause of death for infants between 1 and 4. the children's defense fund found more than half of young people who committed suicide in this country with a gun got it from their house and it was usually a parent's gun. how do you answer critics who say that the home is a safer place without guns? >> it needs to start with firearm safety, it is paramount. and i believe it always gets compared to cars, even though cars have nothing to do with your amendments. but everyone should know how to drive a stick shift even if you have an automatic car. even if you don't want to have a gun or own a gun or be around a gun, everybody should know how to safely handle a firearm without harming yourself or anyone else around you.

>> but the difference is -- the difference is i don't know how to drive stick. that doesn't mean i'm going to necessarily go out and kill myself. if someone doesn't know how to operate a firearm properly or keep it locked up safely, then there's a child in the house that could get ahold of the gun and accidentally kill himself or someone else. it seems like that might be not a good comparison. >> i have a 3-year-old son and he knows not to touch any firearms. he knows it's for mom and dad and he's not to touch them. if a 3-year-old can learn, i'd think anyone can learn. >> moms demand action have objected to some tweets that you sent. i'm sure you're familiar with this. one, during the murder trial over the death of 17-year-old jordan davis where you tweeted a response to moms and to lucy mcbeth, the victim's mother in the case, saying stand your ground laws save lives. then you tweeted to the coalition to stop gun violence

calling them idiots. is it appropriate to confront victims and victims groups with rhetoric like that? is that helpful? >> probably not the most. since then we have been a little stricter on how we represent ourselves and that was back when we were first founded, first figuring this out. you know, we're grassroots. we don't have a millionaire funding us, so we're -- i'm a housewife. i'm a stay-at-home mom and we're learning. so, no, it probably wasn't the best way to handle it, but at the same time it comes to a point where you have to stand up for what you believe in. >> that sounded almost like an apology. >> just about. >> really quickly before i let you get out of here, my friend and colleague, chris hayes, did some reporting this week on smart guns. a maryland gun store owner last week was forced to drop plans to sell these so-called smart guns after he got death threats from gun rights advocates.

smart guns, these are the guns that contain electronics that prevent them from being fired by someone who's not authorized to fire the gun. why so much opposition to smart guns? >> for me it's just anything can malfunction. a firearm is a tool, just like anything else. and it already has enough instances where it can make it malfunction. why add in the possibility of an electronic malfunction. that's how i personally feel about it. to me it's -- you can't legislate morality, why does a firearm owner need to have a smart gun to own a gun. >> linda elliott, one million moms against gun control. linda, thank you for your time. >> thank you. >> still to come, how an uncontested election could effectively make same-sex marriage legal in north carolina. it's a crazy story. we'll bring it to you right after this. rely good chocolate shakes.

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we just got an update on that developing story in virginia. the ntsb says they are still searching for the third person who was onboard a hot air balloon that went down in virginia last night. two bodies have been recovered so far. the basket and the balloon itself have not been found just yet. we're going to keep you updated on any new developments there in virginia. up next, though, we'll talk to the president of the historically black university where the first lady spoke today. later, the king of pop is back with some new songs, never heard before. the inside scoop from "rolling stone" later. (mother vo) when i was pregnant... i got more advice than i knew what to do with. what i needed was information i could trust on how to take care of me and my baby. luckily, unitedhealthcare has a simple program that helps moms stay on track with their doctors and get the right care and guidance-before and after the baby is born. simple is good right now.

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welcome back. history is being made today in the south. same-sex marriages started earlier today in arkansas. friday a judge there struck down that state's voter-approved ban on the unions. the ruling was put into effect immediately, but couples are not claiming an all-out victory. arkansas attorney general dustin

mcdaniel says that he plans to appeal the ruling. mcdaniel says that he personally supports marriage equality but promised to defend the law in court. we'll keep you posted on what's happening in arkansas. meanwhile, in north carolina, one man on that state's ballot is running on the promise to break the law. mark chillton is on his way to becoming the next register of deeds in orange county, north carolina. he won a three-way primary tuesday. if elected in november, and there's a good chance because he's running unopposed, he promises to become one of the first persons in the south to issue same-sex marriage licenses. there's a problem, though. the state constitution in north carolina says no way. mark chilton joins me live from raleigh. mark, same-sex merarriage illeg in the tar heel state. they banded it back in 2012. there was a famous song "i

fought the law and the law won." is there going to be a different outcome for you, sir? >> they're the ones fighting the law. you know, the united states constitution as it's been interpreted through roma versus evans and united states versus windsor last june make it very clear that the state constitutional amendment in north carolina that prohibits same-sex marriage is definitely contrary to the 14th amendment. >> so why not wait for that ruling? >> well, i guess i would turn that right around on you and say why should i wait for that ruling? you know, my responsibility as an elected official in north carolina is laid out in the state constitution in article 6, section 7. it says that my first and foremost responsibility is to uphold the united states constitution and that my second responsibility is to uphold the north carolina constitution, as long as it's consistent with the federal one, so -- >> your state's attorney general not commenting on your pledge specifically but he has in the

past upheld the state's ban on same-sex marriage even though that he says he supports the unions personally. have you talked to him since tuesday? do you plan to lobby his office in any way? >> you know, as far as i'm concerned, it really -- i don't work for attorney general cooper, i work for the voters of orange county, north carolina. and i intend to uphold by constitutional oath. >> what's been the response there to your pledge? >> well, you know, orange county is a blue oasis in orange county -- or in north carolina, which is a very definitely purple state overall, so it's been very well received i think for the most part in orange county. but, you know, definitely there are people across north carolina who have a lot of concerns and reservations and i understand that. but this is the thing, it's not a question of what's popular, it's a question of what the constitution requires. >> really quickly, last question. anyone in particular you plan on

marrying first? >> i've been contacted by only a handful of couples so far, but here i'm on msnbc so that should probably change soon. >> all right. mark chilton, good saturday to you, sir. thank you. >> thanks for having me on, craig. first lady michelle obama today delivered the commencement address to the class of 2014 at dillard university. she told graduates they should set their bar high and let nothing hold them back. >> no dream is too big, no vision is too bold, as long as we stay hungry for education and let that hunger be our north star, there is nothing, graduates, nothing that we cannot achieve. >> walter kimbrough is the president of dillard university. dillard one of 100 historically black colleges and universities. how was the first lady received today by the class of 2014? >> it was awesome, craig.

we had a great crowd, probably 5,000 people. everyone was excited. there was just a lot of energy, powerful selections from our choir so it built up so by the time she took the stage, we were all ready and excited so it was a great day for us. >> there's a new report out that finds, quote, historically black public universities in four states continue to lag behind predominantly white schools in funding specifically. dillard a private university, but are you finding the same difficulty in maintaining appropriate funding? >> that's one of the challenges for all of higher education to figure out. how do we as a nation work, both the states and federally to provide resources for young people who have great minds and a lot of potential, but they just lack those resources. so that has to be the conversation that we develop in this country. how do we help prepare the next generation as.

as a friend of mine said this week, this talent is spread equally across our country but opportunity isn't. that's what we see. and so this becomes one of the barriers that we are facing. so it faces african-americans, but i think really across the country regardless of race, young people are really looking for ways to be supported. >> one of the things -- i'm working on a series of stories on the future of historically black colleges and universities in this country and the video we're showing is my visit at morgan state, i spent some time at a couple others as well. one of the things that i have found is the decision by the department of education recently to change some of the qualifications related to parent plus loans specifically. what has that meant for students at dillard, and what has th thatment for the university itself there? >> we've been fortunate. we didn't have the same level of challenge with that parent plus loan, but it really provided another barrier for people.

a lot of my colleagues, that was an opportunity that families could use to provide the resources for those young people to attend the schools. there was a report released not too long ago, because there was a lot of concern about default rates, but those default rates on parent plus loans are much lower than a lot of other loan programs, so people are saying if this wasn't really a problem, then why were we trying to fix it? so that becomes a valuable stream of revenue for young people and their families to provide for an education. we did not have as many students in that parent plus loan program, but it did impact some of them as well. i'm not really a big fan of loans because i understand the concern about student debt. how do we find more ways to provide grants that don't have to be paid back for young people. that's what we should work on and not so much about a loan here and a loan there. >> your twitter hands is hip-hop prez. how did that come about?

>> when i became a president, i was 37, first college president from the hip-hop generation, so i talked about being different from the average president who at the time was 58, 60 years old. so here i am at 37 with a new sensibility and new way to try to connect with young people. one of the local papers in arkansas where i was president before created it and i rolled with it. so it works for me. >> all right. we're going to have a big roundtable discussion on the future of hbcus in a couple of weeks and i'd like for you to come back and be a part of that larger discussion. >> i would love to. >> the first lady was there today. thank you, sir. up next, rand paul delivers a new attack against a future potential hillary clinton candidacy. we'll put it to the brain trust.

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provide adequate security in libya, didn't send reinforcements and then gave us nothing but spin. my opinion is that hillary clinton has precluded herself from ever being considered for that position. >> well, of course he would say that. some strong words there from senator rand paul. let's get right to the brain trust. irin carmon, reporter jackie kucinich is here and republican strategist hogan gidley, always one of the best dressed men on television. good to see you all. let me start with you, irin. it's clearly not going to go away. that clip is a variation of what we are going to hear from republicans for the next several months leading up to the midterms into 2016 as well. how much is benghazi going to hurt hillary clinton should she run for president? >> so far it really seems like it's a very activated small part of the republican base that is fired up about benghazi. there just isn't a smoking gun that links hillary clinton to

what happened, to the tragedy in bengha benghazi. in fact even this most recent select panel, according to nancy pelosi, half the families said leave it alone. it was a tragedy that lives were lost in benghazi, but linking it to hillary clinton, it's still missing something that showed her actions connected to it. so far the only people keeping it alive are republicans out there fund-raising off of it. >> hogan, let's talk about this select panel. democrats, at this point they haven't decided if they're going to be joining the new select committee that's going to investigate benghazi. "the washington post" reporting, quote, the caucus remains torn over whether its members should participate. the panel, democrats say, is a politically motivated witch hunt. how effective can the committee be if there's so much partisan bickering from the outset, sir? >> they can be very effective if they end every question with a question mark? if it's not grandstanding, if it's not rhetorical politicizing of the event, if it actually tries to get to the bottom of

what happened. she's right, there is no link right now between hillary clinton and this issue, but that's the whole purpose of the hearing itself. look, everyone has been focusing on the cia talking points, i understand that. that's the reason we had the congressional committee in the first place. what we haven't focused on is the real issue which are the white house talking points that brought up the video in the first place. mike morrell said that he was concerned and didn't understand why susan rice brought that up on the sunday talk shows. somewhere, somehow in that administration that was the focus of what they decided to spin to us and sell to us and lie to the american public was that it was because of some video. this hearing, if they're smart and wise, they will try to find the link between where those talking points originated and why we were sold a bill of goods and why, quite frankly, four americans were dead and killed at an embassy in benghazi. it's a tragedy and someone needs to be held accountable for it in our administration, but not just that. it's a year later and we haven't made one arrest yet.

it's just deplorable. >> jackie, let me come to you here because hogan just said and i've heard this a lot the past few days that if the committee itself is engaged in a legitimate search for truth, there might be some good that comes from it. i talked to general carter hamm at the top of the 2:00 hour who essentially reiterated what he said in his testimony, some 140 pages worth. his contention is basically we've said everything there is to say. all of the facts have been reported. if that is true, jackie, then what's to be gained politically by continuing this? >> well, this is an issue that fires up the republican base and continues to fire up the republican base. i mean, listen, rand paul is talking about it in terms of the presidential race. so in terms of keeping their base really fired up, as i said, that's the political aspect to gain. look, they're fund-raising off of it so clearly there's money on the line. >> let's pivot here and i want to talk about something else. republicans have obviously been focusing a lot on benghazi here.

it could be drawing attention away from domestic issues. we heard from former presidential nominee mitt romney this week who, this made some news. this is what he said about raising the minimum wage. take a listen. >> i, for instance, as you know, part company from many of the conservatives in my party on the issue of the minimum wage. i think we should raise it. frankly our party is all about more jobs and better pay. i think communicating that is important to us. >> why not do that? it would seem to me again, i'm not a political strategist, but it would seem that jobs, the economy, raising the minimum wage, those would be the kinds of things that would appeal to lots of people versus talking about benghazi, that we know appeals to a small sliver, a smaller sliver. >> well, every time the minimum wage has been raised over time it's been through bipartisan consensus. that would literally be the only

thing that could make this priority of president obama a reality. but there's just not enough incentive right now a few months ahead of the 2014 midterms for republicans to make it seem like anything is happening in washington. i mean if they benefit from washington is broken, there is apparently no incentive for them to come to the table and say let's do something about the hardest-hit americans, people who are struggling to get by. unfortunately i think it doesn't cost mitt romney very much to say that literally, and, you know, other republicans are just far too beholden to the chamber of commerce which opposes this and through restaurant interests and so on that have historically been the reason that the minimum wage hasn't budged. >> hogan, are we going to listen to mitt on this one? >> we'd be wise to listen to part of what mitt romney has to say. look, the minimum wage should be lifted, should be raised to some degree, but the fact is we need a leader out there from our party who can step forward and say, fine, you want to raise the minimum wage, let's talk about the actual amount we want to raise it but let's tie that to

keystone in some way. let's work out a deal to get something moving forward. instead of focusing on one issue and just being obstructionists about it, let's bring in another issue and say i'll give you a little to get a little. that's what's missing in washington. the last time i checked, just to be clear here, that minimum wage increase failed in the senate. the democrats control the senate. the republicans don't. so the president needs to quit pointing the finger at us and focus on his own party. it's the same thing with the gun bill. that didn't get out of the senate either. that's controlled by the democrats -- >> well, come on. >> jackie, we'll give you ten seconds to wrap it there. >> i was just going to say that's because the republicans mounted a pretty hefty opposition. it wasn't a clean up or down vote -- >> they didn't have the votes. >> come on, hogan. >> that's a good spot to end on, come on, hogan. >> you control the chamber. >> we're going to leave it there. irin carmon, jackie kucinich, hogan gidley, thank you all for your time. jackie, i'm sorry i didn't get

to come to you again, you're my favorite. i'm joking. i was trying to make her feel better. up next, m.j. is back. a new album by michael jackson. i'll have a review and a preview right after this. review and a w right after this. one thing i've learned is my philosophy is real simple american express open forum is an on-line community, that helps our members connect and share ideas to make smart business decisions. if you mess up, fess up. be your partners best partner. we built it for our members, but it's open for everyone. there's not one way to do something. no details too small. american express open forum. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. [prof. burke] at farmers,we make you smarter about [bell rings] your insurance,because what you don't know can hurt you. what if you didn't know that collisions with wildlife on the road may not be covered? and that you could be liable for any accidents on your property?

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just as so many before, the king of pop is out with a new album despite no longer being among the living for five years now. that features not only the signature sound of michael jackson but also cameo from one modern living music star. this is a taste from the album's first trarks "love never felt so good." ♪ >> senior editor with "rolling

stone" magazine. that's all we can afford to play of michael jackson. still very expensive to play his songs on television. you heard the album. what did you think? >> it's a pretty good album. . it surprised me with how good it was. >> what were you expecting? >> a lot of the early buzz was concern because it's an album of leftovers. these are tracks that michael jackson left unfinished. but the material is on par with some of his best work. >> just eight tracks i understand. >> there are only eight tracks. it's hard to begrudge that when he's no longer living. >> are the tracks overproduced at all. >> it's surprising. the production on this album people were concerned that the production would be overproduced, but it's really tasteful. it seems really in line with what michael would have done with these tracks. . >> your reviewer wrote in part "most of these songs rot and sway with fear."

that's strong. >> this album has some beautiful love songs but some dark twisted songs that michael jackson was great at. >> we mention a modern living star makes a cameo. that would be justin timberlake. he's the only one, if you don't count timbaland. this is him talking about how he approached the project. >> michael was one of the greatest entertainers. i felt like i had to dig into a place where it's just deeper than just music. i have to dig into a place to where he would accept what i'm doing without him telling me this is right. >> what does that say about how this album was put together?

>> you can see when they talk about this the level that he had for the material. he wasn't going to rush this out. he's trying to be respectful with what michael would have done. >> is it the first of many? this is the second album. there was another one in 2010. >> all right. thank you. thank you so much as well for watching. i will be back tomorrow. a special time at 2:00 eastern. first right now "disrupt" with karen finney. >> democrats are calling it a witch hunt, but what's behind this obsession with benghazi and we're going to talk about what some nfl cheerleaders and fast food workers have in common. we'll tell you their shared struggle coming up this hour. i'm j-a-n-e and i have copd. i'm d-a-v-e and i have copd. i'm k-a-t-e and i have copd, but i don't want my breathing problems to get in the way my volunteering. that's why i asked my doctor about b-r-e-o. once-daily breo ellipta helps increase airflow from the lungs

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skbr the forecast for this weekend is benghazi. make sure you bring a straight jacket. >> christmas came early for the seven lucky republicans picked to be on the select committee on benghazi. >> republicans have seven seats shs the democrats will have five seats and essentially no power. >> to say, look, elect republicans so we can have these kinds of investigations is appropriate. >> the autopsy of ambassador stevens should be released to the public. >> should we say we're not participating in this sham? >> this is a high risk operation. >> you would think obama had written a memo of traffic problems for benghazi? >> can you imagine if they put this kind of effort of into a jobs bill?