>> all right. gordon. the clintons are in the ring. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. let's start with the best fight in the country, the clintons versus karl rove. rove started this battle royale over hillary's health, this brain injury he's mixing it up about. the clintons are hitting back with a combination of punches, the defense of the former secretary of state is 100%, that rove is dealing with some kind of sickness himself, or, according to bill, the republican operative's charges are so inconsistent as to be laughable.

well, the question now looms up there in the air, is this nasty stupid politics or nasty effective politics? did rove hurt himself, which really doesn't matter in the big world, or did he hurt himself but also hurt hillary clinton in the act? this matters. if hillary's forced to play defense on health, will this rob her of a clean, upbeat future campaign, forcing her to play rear guard tie her to the past, putting the focus on what she's been through, not where she wants to take us? again, we can agree, rove is nasty, but is he nasty stupid or nasty smart? is he playing the bad guy knowing it will help the republican nominee, perhaps jeb bush be the good guy? will he take the low road so his eventual candidate can zip up the high road? this much is plausible. karl rove has done it all before, and now he's doing it again. and somewhere this week, the campaign for 2016 began, and on karl rove's time table.

steve mcmahon's a democratic strategist and wayne slater is senior writer at the dallas morning news and coauthor of the book about karl rove, "bush's brain." karl rove reportedly said this about hillary clinton's health scare, "30 days in the hospital and when she reappears, she's wearing glasses that are only for people who have traumatic brain injury? we need to know what's up with that." well, rove tried to clarify those comments yesterday on fox. let's watch him in action. >> i didn't say she had brain damage. she had a serious health episode. we don't know what the doctor said about, you know, what does she have to be concerned about. we don't know -- she's hidden a lot. >> she's hidden a lot of this. today bill clinton was asked about rove's attack. here's how the former president responded. >> first of all, i got to give him credit, you know, that embodies that old saying that consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. first he said she faked her

concussion, and now they say she's auditioning for a part on "the walking dead." she works out every week. she is strong. she's doing great. as far as i can tell, she's in better shape than i am. she certainly seems to have more stamina now, and there's nothing to it. >> do you think this is their way of inserting her age or her physical capabilities into the 2016 debate? >> i don't know, but if it is, you can't be too upset about it. it's just the beginning. they'll get better and better at it. i'm still waiting for them to admit there's nothing to white water. >> good point there. let me go to wayne on this. you've watched this guy karl rove. is he nasty stupid or nasty smart? because he's nasty, the question is, does this work as it gets into the bloodstream? in fact, it's everywhere now. it's probably going to be the story of the week in american politics because of the way the clintons have reacted already. >> look, it's absolutely worked. it's absolutely worked, it's part of the conversation.

you fly by, you drop something, you foul the water, you move on and it's part of the conversation. if you look at everything karl has done or been associated with or allies have been associated with, from questions about ann richard's sexuality in 1994, to the attack on john mccain by that so-called military group in 2000 raising questions about his mental acuity, to some obama court races where karl's client found the opponent was under questions about his sexual orientation, if you look at every one of these cases, it's the same pattern. you smear somebody, you fly away. in those cases, karl was able to basically say what we call in texas the mark of rove. you saw it happened, but you didn't see karl and gave himself some deniability. in this case, it's just interesting he was out there, out front, the guy who dropped the bomb.

>> yeah, he did it himself. let's go to steve mcmahon. my theory is, he could be like a kamikaze pilot in world war ii, he could blow up the ship, blow himself up, who cares, who cares if he's known as an s.o.b.? he's already known as an s.o.b., but in this case he's the guy who dropped the bomb and did it with impunity. >> that's right. you can blow yourself up but it doesn't matter if you take out your opponent, and he's very, very good at this. wayne didn't mention, perhaps, the greater slander of all, which was taking john kerry, somebody who was a decorated vietnam war hero and turning him into a swift boat captain's version of, you know, a lying, cheating, scoundrel. it's outrageous what he does. it's subliminal advertising. you know, this is what gets the right wing machine going. it's the same thing that the president deals with with this birther crowd. there's no justification for it. >> this health thing is really attacking the person's well being or being itself.

i remember the old movie "anatomy of a murder," don't think of a blue cow, well, you're going to if somebody says think of a blue cow. even the liberals and pro hillary people are going, well, is there something there? your thoughts. >> that's exactly how it works, chris. wayne said it best, you drop it into the water and then pretty soon it's there. karl rove goes away. if you think about karl rove's objective here, number one, he wants to remain relevant after wasting $300 million last year and getting nothing in 2012. >> i like how you sneak in your own points in there. >> but number two, he gains -- you know, he's punching up and the president at this point, president clinton, is punching down, so karl rove has gotten exactly what he wants. >> here's nicole wallace, appears regularly on "morning joe," she said on "morning joe," she doesn't think he raised the issue of hillary clinton's health by accident. that seems to be clear.

>> karl didn't just stumble into this line of questioning about hillary clinton's health. he's one of the most prepared and deliberate speakers. i think injecting questions about her health crisis from a few years ago is something that karl thinks is fair game. >> she knows what she's talking about. interesting phrase there, by the way, fair game. that's an interesting history right there. anyway, this point, "why does rove allegedly smear his opponents this way? because it works. consider the clinton brain damage story. right now the press is slamming rove for this vicious, outlandish comment, but they are also talking about clinton's health problems as secretary of state, disrupting the story she wants to tell about her time in foggy bottom in her forthcoming memoir. back to you, wayne. this changing of the cosmos, shifting it around to hillary wants to tell a great story, it's going to have so much color in it, we can just tell, her family history, her mom passing away, and all the countries she's been to.

i would like to know what it's like to be in all those countries, and she could tell us, yet the first question at every book stop will be, what, what's the health beat story here? they are going to ask it. they've been primed now by karl rove to ask the question. >> yeah, no question about it. look, one of the things, the interesting thing that bill clinton said was not simply the tone was a light one, fairly light one saying, i don't know, she's in great shape. it was also to say the hobgoblin of little minds, to point out that no matter what the right was saying, this was his argument, they are going to say it's hillary's fault, whether it's a fake deal about benghazi, must be hillary's fault. whether it's something real, brain damage, must be something wrong with hillary. whether it's some schoolgirls are kidnapped in nigeria, where was hillary on the beat? everything is going to be run through the -- of hillary clinton between now and then and what bill clinton is doing is

sort of reminding people that no matter what you see out there, they are going to make it all about hillary. >> exactly. remember teddy roosevelt, she said, if you don't have something good to say about something, come sit next to me. steve mcmahon, the people who hate hillary will believe it all, even the contradictions that she was faking it and she was sick. why not? why not believe them both? >> there's something else going on here, chris, which is she exits as secretary of state one of the most popular people in america, certainly, one of the most popular political figures in america, and this is a way to inject a partisanship into the view of hillary clinton that doesn't exist right now. when you have a 68% favorable or 70% favorable, there are a lot of independents and republicans that think well of you, this is trying to get the clinton wars going again to partisanize the electorate so clinton's favorables going into the election are 50%, 48%, instead of 70%.

>> there's always a counterpunch that works, why have a fight if he sucker punches you? anyway, that's what this is. anyway, that's a schoolyard phrase from the '50s, actually. politico reports, "two sources close to the clintons describe both former president bill clinton and secretary of state furious over rove's attacks and reflect a growing level of anger and a desire to push back instead of letting the fight play out elsewhere." at first the spokesman for hillary clinton said this, "please assure dr. rove she's 100%." later, a tougher response came from a clinton spokesperson. "karl rove is still all over the map and continuing to get the facts wrong, but he doesn't care because all he wants to do is inject the issue into an echo chamber and he's succeeding.

it's flagrant and thinly veiled, they are afraid of what she has achieved and has to offer." that was a mixed bag of a sickness and all over the board. i'm not sure what the clarity was in that second statement. i like the first one. what's the smart response, wayne, to this kind of karl rove attack, is there one that works? >> well, there are two things. you go after him directly. i think they are right about it. i think you do it with a tone that is somewhat lighter. if you become too, too dark in your response, it looks like you're trying to hide something. make it clear there's nothing wrong with her. ultimately, hillary clinton has to do this herself. if she's in, if she becomes the nominee, and she shows herself to be physical, very physically fit, showing up here and there, moving like she did as secretary of state from one place to another, she demonstrates that this is a lie, but remember what karl and his good friend used to quote saying, he who does the thing that your opponent won't do has the advantage. >> yeah.

unfortunately, that's true. hey, steve, what do you think of this? do you think there's a smart way? how would you advise the president and former first lady, former first lady and former secretary of state how to handle it? >> normally when a crazy person says something crazy, the best thing to do is take a rational response and ignore it. here, it was said in a way and was on page six in new york city right away, so i'm sure they were infuriated, and the clintons have a reputation for going after their enemies hard and pummelling them and sort of punching them first, shooting them second, strangling them third to make sure they are dead and i think that's what you're seeing here. the first response i think the clintons thought was tepid, then it was a little stronger, then the big dog came out himself and got a few licks in. i think they are feeling better today than they were a couple days ago, but it's in the water and it's going to be talked about, for sure. >> i like the israeli response, ten for one, make them pay for it, make them wish they never did it, were never born if they do it.

that's tough with karl rove, who likes getting hurt. he's a strange one. anyway, i think he's the kamikaze and i'm not knocking previous kamikazes, just him. they are patriotic people, he's a killer dog. thank you, wayne slater, as always for your expertise. coming up, how jon stewart is heading a fight against the right. he reminds me of the book by al franken when he was a comedian, "lies and lying liars who tell them." also a crack in the solid republican wall of resistance to the hike in the minimum wage. why some leading republicans say it's time for a raise. and the mom whose daughter's life may have been saved by medical marijuana. that's a story a lot of people were thinking about and what she's doing to change the laws around the country so that other children can be helped. finally, let me finish tonight with the power of "snl" and now comedy central. don't get in their target zone ever. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ male announcer ] zzzquil. it's not for colds,

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west virginia is now assured of its first woman senator. congresswoman shelley moore capito won the republican nomination. they'll face off this november with capito the early favorite to replace the democrat, the great jay rockefeller. elsewhere, won the primary out in nebraska, the overwhelming favorite to hold that seat for republicans in november, and we'll be right back after this.

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let's broaden the world's energy mix, let's go. welcome back to "hardball." the daily show's jon stewart may be the single strongest voice isn't the country in calling out the right wing for its hypocrisy, meanness, and ignorance. but lately he's getting more serious about the right's tactics. and it's not just for laughs. just this week, stewart called out rush limbaugh for trashing

the twitter hash tag "bring back our girls," which brought attention to the 300 kidnapped schoolgirls in nigeria, and he's taken on karl rove for drumming up conspiracy theories about hillary clinton's health, implying she has a brain injury. >> on the 30th of december she goes in and turns out to have had a blood clot, they won't say where. >> unanswered questions, an attempted coverup, my god, it's brainghazi! when did you start caring so much about the brain fitness of those who have to hold the oval office? perhaps i assume it was right after your boss fell and banged his head after losing the battle with a pretzel. >> well, clearly, stewart's sick of the below the belt style politics played by the far right and it's showing. joe, editor of "the national memo," and michelle bernard.

joe, start with this, i watch jon stewart a lot, and i think something new is happening. i think he's really damn serious about this slighting, hating if you will, below-the-belt tactics going on hillary clinton maybe on nothing, going after people like michelle obama, who have a true sentiment of sympathy for those girls scared to death over there somewhere in nigeria, and perhaps helping to drum up international action on it. and what's the point of that -- i think i'll let him speak. i think jon stewart's really ticked. >> well, you'd have to imagine, chris, that he's been doing this basically for well over a decade. he would get sick of the devolution of political discourse in the hands of people like karl rove and rush limbaugh. you listen to a rush limbaugh mock the first lady for trying to help kidnapped girls in nigeria, what could be the possible motive for him to behave that way?

so, yes, i thought stewart's reaction was totally appropriate. with rove, you know, the thing about karl rove is people forget, this guy is a vintage watergate vintage, nixon dirty trickster. he was investigated by the watergate prosecutors in 1972, '73, for his work with donald segretti, who went to prison, as you recall, in watergate. he escaped at that time, he was quite young, but this is what he's done his entire life, and you can well imagine somebody like jon stewart watching karl rove year after year, people believe he's responsible for smearing john mccain, people believe he's responsible for smearing john kerry, going after people much more distinguished and decent than he is, and, you know, why not get sick of that at some point, you know? i certainly am. >> i'm with you on that, but i think the fair game is so wide now. anything's fair game, a person's

health, sticking it to them -- >> fair game is the reference to valerie plain, is it not? >> i'm familiar with the phrase. >> another -- another patriot who that guy smeared. this is what we're talking about. >> yeah. let me ask you, michelle, about this, i never know your politics, so explain. jon stewart, i'm going to talk about this at the end of the show, i think he's more powerful than a dick durbin, steny hoyer, he can reach an 11:00 audience of the people who care about politics, young people many of them, not all young people, and it's right there. you go to bed at night knowing what he thinks. he doesn't like these people. >> jon stewart, there are few people like jon stewart, i'm going to throw chris rock into that same vein of people who talk about politics in a way where they are not only giving us the sentiments of the entire country, but in their comedy, they are able to display and show us just how important the issues are of the day.

so when jon stewart goes in and he gives the soliloquy last night about the girls in nigeria and how brave they are and shows how asinine it was for rush limbaugh to make fun of the hash tag, particularly in this era of i guess we call it social media activism, look what social media did for the arab spring, in tunisia and libya. it is asinine. he is expressing the sentiments of the country and doing it in a very powerful way. >> let's look at rush and how he got this started. let's look at rush limbaugh in this one. >> here's the thing about hash tag activism, it cannot force a crazy person to do something, but it can shame a less crazy person into not doing nothing. while apparently driving a medium crazy person crazier. >> apparently, there's a twitter -- what do you call them, handle. it's mrs. obama looking sad. is that not pathetic? what the hell message does that send?

it is just unbelievable! and the sad thing here, it's a low-information crowd that's puddling around out there on twitter's going to think we're actually doing something. at least she's trying, mr. limbaugh, what are you doing? at least mrs. obama cares. at least they are trying to get them back. >> stewart said we have a choice now between those expressing solidarity with the kidnapped girls and people like rush. watch this. >> so, that's our choice, malala or rush, the quivering rage heap, who is apparently desperately trying to extinguish any remaining molecule of humanity that might still reside in the chernobyl-esque cleanup site that was his soul. who should we choose? i don't know, why don't we tweet our votes to # -- rush. >> this is beyond comedy. >> it is beyond comedy and it's serious.

again, i go back to the fact, one facebook page in egypt led to many believe led to what we saw in tahrir square. if it was not for this hash tag, we don't know what would have happened, the nigerian government was saying the girls were not abducted, people weren't intervening, michelle obama doesn't have a drone. she can't put boots on the ground, she can't strike to find these girls. >> who's going to win, is stewart going to win this battle taking down rove and limbaugh? he's the only guy i know that can puncture these pomposities. >> don't you think he's won already? there's satire that is just funny, and then there's satire that really gets to the heart of something, and what this gets to the heart of is the attempt of people like rush to make everyone as cynical as they are, and jon stewart has really nailed that and said, you cannot -- you can't be in the middle on this, you're on one side or the other. when you look at a guy as ugly as that, behaving that way about what's happening to children in a place like nigeria, you have

to choose a side, and he's made it really easy to do. >> well said, joe. thank you, joe, thank you, michelle bernard. up next, just the latest example of a partisan critics grossly distorting something president obama said. and this is "hardball," the place for politics.

karl rove is claiming now that hillary clinton suffered brain damage. karl rove better be careful of what he's talking about, because karl rove saying somebody else has brain damage, yeah, take a look at this and then we'll talk about it. ♪ >> time now for the side show. talk about being loony.

that was david letterman on karl rove's suggestion on monday that hillary clinton had a traumatic brain injury. next up, the #bringbackourgirls has been retweeted almost 2 million times, but many on the right continue to mock the social media campaign to draw attention to the 200 girls held captive in nigeria. well, last night stephen colbert joined the ranks of those hash tag skeptics. >> i love internet memes. after all, the word meme is just the word "me" twice. this one is huge, even michelle obama jumped on the hash-tagon. i cannot get on this twitter campaign, because none of my friends are into it. >> are these barbarians in the wild of nigeria supposed to check their twitter accounts, uh-oh, michelle obama is cross with us, better change our behavior. >> yes, terrorists in the wild aren't on twitter. they are up to some nasty business. obviously, they are using snap chat.

besides, you do not launch a twitter campaign to rescue kidnapped daughters, you send in liam neeson. >> that's from the movie "taken." next up, nevada's republican governor brian sandoval is campaigning for his second term this year, but if he's serious about his re-election, he should probably start spell checking his campaign's literature. last week he sent out this fundraising letter, which misspelled the name of his home state with an "e" instead of an "a." where's auto check here, auto correct, when you need it? finally, another republican fundraising letter, this one from the national association for gun rights, which recently sent out on behalf of senator rand paul, and the mailing caught the attention of buzz feed due to a quote of president obama, the outside of the envelope says this, "in the coming weeks, i'll use whatever power this offer holds to," --

and in brackets it says "ban guns." the use of brackets allows for a small degree of editorial license, but in this case what the president actually said couldn't have been more different. here's the real quote. >> in the coming weeks, i'll use whatever power this office holds to engage my fellow citizens, from law enforcement, to mental health professionals, to parents and educators, in an effort aimed at preventing more tragedies like this. because what choice do we have? we can't accept events like this as routine. >> at no point in that sentence or the whole speech for that matter did the president ever call for banning guns. senator paul shouldn't be part of such a deliberately misleading fundraising tactic. that's what i think. up next, the growing split among republicans on whether to raise the minimum wage. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.

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he says if congress doesn't act, funding will run out and jobs will be put at risk. firefighters in california are battling multiple wildfires amid a brutal heat wave, and the city of carlsbad, more than two dozen homes have been destroyed. and in turkey, more than 270 and now we're going to take you back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." would republicans rather switch than fight? that's the question facing the party as it goes to war on itself on the issue of raising the minimum wage.

after months of being slammed by the president for blocking an increase in the minimum wage in $7.25 to $10.10 an hour, republicans are finally feeling the heat. in fact, some of the party's biggest names are joining with democrats and a few are calling out members of their own party as hypocrites. >> i think we ought to raise it, because frankly, our party is all about more jobs and better pay, and i think communicating that is important to us. >> let's not make this argument that, you know, we're for the blue collar guy, but we're against any minimum wage increase ever. it just makes no sense. >> for all the republicans that come on and talk about we're for the blue collar worker, we're for the working person, there's things we should be for, one is reasonable increases from time to time in the minimum wage. >> but republicans in congress, those with the vote led by speaker john boehner are digging in for a fight. >> when it comes to the federal minimum wage, listen, i used to be an employee, when you raise the cost of something, you get less of it. and we know from increases in

the minimum wage in the past, that hundreds of thousands of low-income americans have lost their jobs. and so the very people the president purports to help are the ones that are going to get hurt by this. >> well, speaker boehner won't shy away from this issue either, he won't told the weekly, "i'll commit suicide before i vote on a clean minimum wage bill." well, that's laying down the line. switch or fight? kathleen parker is the, i think, hottest columnist in the country right now, and john feehery is a political strategist. do you have the fastest rising column in the country right now? >> i think it's risen, but i like the comment. >> you're brilliant, amazingly prolific and reach everyone with your thinking. now that i've set you up, should the republicans buckle or fight, switch or fight? >> i think they are not going to. they are not going to buckle. john boehner's not going to put this up for a vote, not going to put minimum wage up for a vote,

for a couple of reasons, number one, they are not hearing from their constituents this is an issue they care about. they are hearing more about health care and jobs, i know it's redundant, but that's the case. >> that was snarky for me to do. i closed my eyes. >> i'm used to much worse. >> go ahead. >> this is not what their constituents are saying they care most about, and, you know -- >> it's not a budding issue on the republican side. is a voting issue on the dem side? will democrats come out and vote because they think the republican party is a 1% party? >> well, democrats aren't really serious about this either, by the way. look what harry reid said. he didn't want any amendments to the bill, just let it die. susan collins practically begged him to make a deal to get compromise and some democrats don't want the $10.10 minimum wage either, they wanted something lower, but harry reid -- they want on record the republicans would not vote for this. >> let me ask your party, because you worked in the speakers office like i did. why is the republican party, why

does the boehner persona we just saw, the one that just showed up there, why does he say i'll kill myself before this. that's strong language, even for a pall. >> he said it as part of a clean minimum wage, and what he means by that, if you're going to put pro business tax cuts, maybe he'll vote for it. >> that tape was from '96? >> a long time ago. >> i think more recently than that. >> the republicans represent the small business wing of the party, wing of the country. >> who pay low wages. >> well, they are not mitt romney wing that pays the higher wages, so the small business guys are saying don't do this to us, and they are not going to do it. >> let me get to the numbers. republican party, 53% of your party, rank and file people who vote republican are for this, raise the minimum wage to $10.10. 90% of democrats, no surprise there, but look at the red there. kathleen, is that true, do you think it's a good number? i think it is. most people are employees, republicans or democrats.

boehner said he was an employee. he is an employee. he works for the government. >> they know this is not going to create jobs. if i were advising republicans, i would say you should have passed a minimum wage increase two years ago, preempted this conversation. it's not going to create jobs, it's probably going to cost jobs at the lower end of the spectrum, that's what they are saying and that's true. i would say forget it, go ahead and raise the minimum wage, figure out some way to come up with -- >> i know these does cost jobs at the bottom, but more money is going into the hands of people working for a living, wage earners, and it pushes up the ladder. no, it pushes up everybody's pay. in terms of dollars, more dollars are going to go to the hands of people who need it and are living and spending 99% of what they bring in every week, it's good for the economy. >> what boehner and mcconnell say, cbo says this will cost 1 million jobs and this is what they pound on, this is in a jobless recovery, barack obama has been antijobs with obamacare and this is what they want to focus on.

you have another job killer, unless you include job creation. >> because we have a huge problem in the country of economic inequality. >> well, the bigger problem -- >> this is not going to solve it, but it looks good and feels solid. >> goes from $7 to $10. >> if you tap the minimum wage at $10.10 in new york, makes employers feel they've done the right thing, but doesn't help in new york. >> as i mentioned, president obama continues to hammer republicans on this issue. since the state of the union address, he's been unrelenting. take a look. >> today, the federal minimum wage is worth about 20% less than it was when ronald reagan first stood here, so join the rest of the country, say yes. give america a raise. [ cheers and applause ] this is not about politics. this is about common sense. it's about business sense. nobody who works full time should be raising their family in poverty. right?

if you're working, if you're responsible, you should be able to pay the rent, pay the bills. get fired up, get organized, make your voices heard, and rest assured, i'm going to keep working with you and leader nancy pelosi and other members of congress who are here today to raise wages for hard working americans. it's the right thing to do. >> you know, they are very important, always make it a diverse audience behind the president, but that diverse audience goes immediately, when you say raise the minimum wage, it's a fire cracker response. they don't have to be told to do it. explain to me when 90% of your political party, rank and file, that's regular people, are for this. why wouldn't the democrats be pushing it and why wouldn't the republicans be afraid turnout by the democrats? >> if the democrats were serious about this, they'd work out a deal. that could be a big thing -- >> anything, they don't want to do anything. they want this as an issue, which is why they only bring this up in election year. they could have done this in 2007, 2008, when president

obama's first term. they didn't do that. they only do it when it's a political issue. >> in other words, to do the right thing, they have to pay up your party. to do the right thing, your party needs to be paid. >> they want an issue. >> you're saying your party will vote for something they don't believe in if they get paid for it. >> if they can get something that will create jobs and help the economy grow, they'll do it, but this will not do it by itself. >> don't you like to get a raise? >> i'd love to get a raise. talk to my boss. >> they want a raise, too, just like you. >> everybody wants a raise. >> thank you, kathleen, i've made my point. up next, we're going to talk to a mother who fought to save her daughter's life. this is serious business, and what she's doing now to help other children across the country. medical marijuana, it's a real argument, you're going to hear it here in a minute. this is "hardball," place for politics. [ mom ] hi, girls! mommy! [ laughs ] i travel a lot for business, but i have two little girls at home, gemma and abby. mom! my llama smells like you.

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welcome back to "hardball." every parent knows or can certainly imagine the heart wrenching experience of watching your child suffer. a new jersey couple was diagnosed with a severe form of epilepsy that left her enduring up to 90 seizures a day heard that a form of mychal marijuana could help their daughter. but the delayed process of getting their daughter a medical marijuana card in new jersey and the fact that they could not import this particular form of marijuana oil from colorado, where it's produced, spelled tragedy for the family. their daughter died this past december at just 15 months after a 24-hour long seizure. well, page figgy did have access to the marijuana oil. her daughter, charlotte, was

losing a lifelong battle with epilepsy and at age 5 was suffering up to 50 seizures a day. now charlotte is 99% seizure-free. according to her parents, they say, the reason, marijuana oil. marijuana acceptance is spreading its legal for recreational use and medical use in two states, and approved for use in 21 more states. stories like charlotte's could improve its acceptance. page figgy is with the realm of caring, along with the stanley brothers of colorado who cultivate and dispense the marijuana oil. the charlotte's web hemp strain. page does political advocacy and parent support for families of severely epileptic children. warren lambert is chairman of the national epilepsy foundation. his 17-year-old daughter has suffered from unrelenting seizures since she was 9 months old and is now part of the a clinical study of the marijuana oil treatment. thank you so much, caring parents, both.

let me ask page about this. what is -- how did you get to the realization that marijuana oil of this particular strain would work so wondrously. almost miraculously. >> there is research out there that it's an anti-convulsant. it's published, researched, peer reviewed and when you have a child with this syndrome, you know it's not going to be treatable by traditional medicine. so you're already looking into every different research category to stop the seizures. so i had just done some research, my husband urged me to do it. we lived in a legal, medical cannabis state, and there wasn't a strain at that time. no one really knew what it was or how to breathe a plant that way. the stanley brothers are responsible for doing that breeding. they didn't know it was going to be for epilepsy. and we just kind of fortuitously t.kind of fortuitously met. i tested is and made this medicine into an oil with joel stanley, the brothers, and it

miraculous stopped her 1,200 monthly seizures. she has about one or two now, and she's 2 1/2 years into this. >> you're in colorado, where it's legal. should people move to colorado where they have this situation with their child. i'm serious? is this what you have to do? >> people -- we have medical refugees, so we're welcoming the patients to move here. but in the meantime, i'm going back to those states to change legislation that's unacceptable, that they have to move. these kids don't travel, they don't go on their make-a-wish trips. these are end-of-life situations and it's unfortunate they would even have to consider moving for medicine within our own country. >> june, warren, i know people are epileptic and they have it under control with medicine. how are these cases different where they have these severe incidents of seizures? >> well, i think it should be made clear that uncontrolled seizures and toxic side effects from the existing therapies are a reality for far too many people with epilepsy.

approximately one third of people with lepsy, which has about a 1% population incidence, you know, 1 in 30 across their lives will have epilepsy, you know, are living with uncontrolled seizures. so the epilepsy foundation aggressively advocates on behalf of patients and families and works to advance research and new therapies in a time frame that matters. >> paige, what do you make of that story we told of what happened in jersey? what do you think about it? is that still happening, where people are not able to get through the bureaucracy, the red tape, to save their kid? >> oh, yeah, sabina's parents are friends of mine. they post daily about the loss of their daughter on facebook. and that was a working system. new jersey was up and running, legal state. look at wisconsin. wisconsin, there's a mother who fought to have that bill passed, it was signed, and her daughter died on mother's day, waiting for medicine.

and so this is actually a reality. this medicine has no potential for abuse. that we're discussing here, it's so low in thc to be considered hemp. >> so it doesn't create a high? >> there's no -- >> in common parlance. it's not about getting high. >> nonpsychoactive. >> it's about avoiding a problem. and back to you, warren, what should people do who are learning, as i am, about this turn we're making in the road here toward better access to this kind of medical marijuana? >> they should join paige and the circle of care and the epilepsy foundation in advocating that the obama administration make cbd and marijuana something other than a schedule one drug, like heroin, lsd, or method. you know, these preparations do not cause a high and there is substantial evidence that they could be beneficial as a therapy.

we need to do the clinical trials to know that and we need to get rid of the roadblocks that prevent us from getting the answers we need about the potential benefit from this new therapy, which is working, it seems, for paige's daughter and for silvie. other families should have the right to try it. >> the word "marijuana" jumps out at people as recreational to most people, and paige, how do you sell them on the fact it's marijuana? >> i don't even use the "marijuana" word, the "m" word, it's obvious to me, it's one child, one anecdotal story, we have hundreds of patients, it's a medicine, it's working. it's a known anticonvulsant. it's just, we can't study this as a substance. needs to be changed. and while they're considering reschedule it, they could do an emergency passionate care situation. >> we'll have you back on later. this is a story we can help you tell. paige figi and warren lambert, thank you so much. great parents. we'll be right back after this. there negotiating, most stressful part... of buying a new car.

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that corporate trial by fire when every slacker gets his due. and yet, there's someone around the office who hasn't had a performance review in a while. someone whose poor performance is slowing down the entire organization. i'm looking at you phone company dsl. check your speed. see how fast your internet can be. switch now and add voice and tv for $34.90. comcast business built for business. let me finish tonight with this. i've long ago come to the conclusion that "snl" and comedy central can make or break a politician. "snl" and chevy chase did it to gerald ford, taking a graduate of yale law and converting him into a dumb oaf. "snl" and comedy central have been doing this, maybe have already done a similar job to vice president joe biden, that med him a prisoner of his gaffes.

fair enough, you can argue. political satire has been in the political arena since thomas and a half or dayed republicans as elephants and democrats as donkeys. but i think it's escalated now that comedy central has grabbed the minds of young voters out there, really grabbed them. there's a reason why we show you clips and a side show every night of jon stewart and steve colbert. they're powerful, they cut to the quick of popular culture, they inhabit that world where people form their opinions of those who would lead us. and right now, as i speak, the fiercest of them all, jon stewart, is tearing the inside out of those on the right, limbaugh, rove, and the rest? we see chewing and belching on the benghazi story and nigeria, that smorgasbord like hogs in a trough. i have long believed that cable television has come to challenge elected office as a platform for national leadership. name me a politician, either party, or either house of congress, or any governor, who has the nightly power of stewart or colbert to take apart a

pomposity like limbaugh or a circus act like karl rove with the sharpness that john and steven display night after night after night. i say, good for them. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. tonight, thousands of people are evacuating their homes and businesses in california as wildfires spread throughout the stay. meanwhile, marco rubio is self-immolating before our eyes. when rubio traveled to new hampshire to effectively launch his 2016 presidential campaign, he probably expected some headlines and some big interviews. what he likely did not expect was that his relaunch would be completely hijacked by one single issue. >> let me get this straight. you do not think that human activity, the production of co2, has caused warming to our planet?