we're working deals all day. you get 10 gigabytes of data to share. what about expansion potential? add a line anytime for 15 bucks a month. low dues... great terms... let's close. new at&t mobile share value plans. our best value plans ever for business. this morning, my question -- nerdland, can you roll up the partition, please? plus, why who writes the news is news. and 690 years after brown v board, we investigate. good morning. i'm melissa harris-perry. and this book is hot off the presses.

it is full of intrigue and turmoil and lots of finger-pointing. who wrote this must-read? none other than former treasury secretary tim geithner. really, he did. in his new book appropriately titled "stress test," geithner recounts the financial crisis and the white house's response to it. geithner also writes about the anxiety caused over one major administration decision. whether or not president obama should appoint elizabeth warren to head the consumer protection finance bureau. though the bureau was her brainchild, everyone in the room knew she had no chance of being confirmed. so president obama ultimately chose to do this in 2010 -- >> secretary geithner and i both agree that elizabeth is the best person to stand this agency up. she was the architect behind the idea for a consumer watchdog. so it only makes sense that she should be the architect working

with secretary of the treasury geithner in standing up the agency. >> did you hear what the president said? instead of nominating the agency she envisioned, she was made the acting director of the bureau. when it came time to ultimately decide who would head the bureau in a permanent capacity, president obama did not pick elizabeth warren. he chose this guy. you know who that is, right? instead of choosing warren who was the driving force behind the agency, the president chose former ohio attorney general richard cordray. there were better things on the horizon for her. like this -- that's right. warren went on to defeat republican incumbent scott brown and become the first woman

elected to serve as a u.s. senator from massachusetts. but what happened with the decision over whether to nominate elizabeth warren to head the consumer finance bureau is telling. it is an example of the decision that this president has been forced to make repeatedly when choosing whom to nominate because of a process dubbed the new nullification. it's a term coined by congressional scholars and it's an effort to block nominations, not because the nominees are unqualified but rather to block the nominees because there is political opposition to the laws that their positions would help enforce. if you can't keep the law from passing, you use the new nullification to block the people who would enact the laws. according to a new report by the non-profit advocacy organization common cause called the new nullification at work, executive branch nominations and the tactics of obstruction by steven spalding, the backlog under president obama is much larger

than the presidencies of both both george w. bush and bill clinton. the numbers tell the tale. right now, according to the report, there are 134 nominees languishing in the senate because of obstructionist tactics by the republican minority. and of those, more than 110 are to executive branch and independent agencies. let's be clear about just what these nominees are waiting for. they're waiting for a vote. through that vote, they could be rejected. that's what the confirmation process is all about. the senate can choose not to allow the president's nominees to serve. but these nominees can't even get a vote. the average wait time for these executive branch and independent agency nominees is nine months. that may seem like a flash in the pan to some. but for those who are going through the process, to someone whose life is in limbo, they may see it another way. take dawn johnson. she's a prime example of a nomination process that's broken and the toll that it takes. she was president obama's first pick to head the justice

department's office of legal counsel. dawn waited for 14 months for a confirmation vote that never came until she ultimately decideded to withdraw her name for consideration in 2010. it was after the financial expenditures of renting a home in washington, d.c. uprooting her family while she commuted every week from maryland to indiana at her own expense. the sad thing is that dawn's story is not an anomaly. what's thigh harry reid and his colleagues were forced to do this -- >> the change we propose today would ensure executive and judicial nominations an up-or-down vote on confirmations, yes, no. the important distinction is not between democrats and republicans. it's between those who are willing to help break the gridlock in washington and those who defend the status quo. is the senate working now?

can anyone say the senate is working now? i don't think so. >> reid and his colleagues voted last november for the nuclear option or to lower the threshold of votes needed to end filibusters of presidential nominations from 60 to 51. but a problem still remains with the time-consuming process of cloture, the formal procedure for breaking a filibuster. senators have voted on cloture 115 times in this congress. that shatters the previous record set in 2008. instances of cloture votes have gone from a record to a high of 34 for president obama. since the nuclear option changes, there have been 13 cloture votes to end filibusters on judicial nominees who were ultimately confirmed unanimously. the same goes for executive branch nominees who were also overwhelmingly confirmed after cloture to say the senate

republican minority is wasting time would be the understatement of the year. the bigger cost here could be to your very right to vote. thomas hicks, whae heard of him? what about myrna perez? speaking out against voter id laws and other laws set to disenfranchise voters. they were nominated by president oba obama. hicks was nominated april 2010. and perez in march of 2011. that's not a mistake. according to the common cause report, waiting for confirmation longer than any other pending nominee at more than four years and counting. and here's the kicker. every seat on the election assistance commission has been

vacant since 2011. so you see this is not just about republican obstructionism. it's about the many nominees with their lives put on hold, not knowing if they should prepare to move or uproot their lives because they choose to serve their country. most importantly, it's about what threatens the accountability of our elected leaders that you the voter, you have the right to hold them accountable. you put them in office. joining me now from washington, d.c. is steven spalding, the author of "the new nullification at work." >> thanks for having me. >> start by explaining to me about this particular elections commission that is completely vacant. why is this important to our viewers? >> the election assistance commission, this is how voters are affected by the gridlock paralyzing washington, d.c. i know it's easy to get lost in the alphabet soup of the

agencies here in washington. but the commission was set up after the debacle that was the florida election in 2000 so that we would never have something like that to embarrass the country again. >> i want to be clear, it was set up at that time as a bipartisan effort. >> exactly. there are two republican commissioners and two democratic commissioners. but as you said, right now, there are no commissioners, which is why some people have called the commission the zombie agency. it's got a hardworking staff. it's got office space but no corner offices with commissioners. and the problem is the eac is supposed to help the 8,000 underresourced local jurisdiction that is run our elections. they also set and certify and test the voting machines. if voting is the language of our democracy, voting machines are the translators. they're really important. and they're old and they're breaking down. it's no wonder people are waiting in line.

the iphone was invented more recently than our current voting machines standards because there is no election assistance commission, no commissioners are able to adopt new standards. >> there's also maybe not the profit motivation of a new election machine 7.0 every six months. this is really important. i don't want to miss this. i also don't want to seem like it's just us all revved up about this. i want to listen to president obama speaking at the national action network and saying how important this question of voting and voting fairly is. let's take a listen to the president. >> the stark, simple truth is this -- the right to vote is threatened today in a way that it has not been since the voting rights act became law nearly five decades ago. as president, i'm not going to let attacks on these rights go unchallenged. we're not going to let voter suppression go unchallenged. >> stephen, i think for most viewers, especially for folks

who watch this show, they're thinking about the voter id laws, the elimination of early voting. but this new nullification process is also part of that? >> absolutely. and the importance here -- the supreme court -- we're approaching the one-year anniversary where they struck down the heart of the voting rights act. there is a bill in congress, a bipartisan bill to set up a more flexible, modern standard that's been stalled out. we need the republicans to have some hearings and get that legislation moving. but this report also shows that election administration matters. we remember when the president was reelected in november 2012, he went out and gave his victory speech and said, by the way, we're going to fix that. people waiting four or five hours in line to exercise the right to vote? he appointed a commission. he appointed the general counsel of his campaign and the general counsel of governor romney. what was one of their key recommendations? we've got to update our voting machines which are broken. we're on the verge of, they said

simultaneous catastrophic breakdown in their meetings. they said the reason we don't have up-to-date voting machines, we don't have an eac. there are no commissioners because the senators on one side of the aisle, quite frankly, have been using gridlock to shut down the eac. it is a prime example of the new nullification. they don't have the votes to repeal or defund it, so they deprive it of having any commissioners. >> you talk about the alphabet soup of washington. i want you to get into the weeds for me here. i don't want the viewers to miss that both mr. romney and president obama both saw this as a central concern, that this was initially bipartisan. you said a little earlier that there are people working there, there's a hardworking staff but nobody in the corner offices. a lot of people on hardworking staffs say, good. explain to me what happens when the political nominees, when the folks at the top aren't available for these positions? explain why these matter. >> these agencies oversee and

enforce our laws. in the case here of the election assistance commission, they can't have formal meetings. they can't issue advisory opinions. they're doing a great job of helping to serve as a clearinghouse and give information to voters. as i said, the 8,000 underresourced local officials running our elections. but they can't, for example, approve new standards that would govern our voting machines which are now nine years old. this is happening throughout government. this is happening at the chemical safety board where mr. engler has been waiting for over two years for his spot. it's happening in the department of education. we have scores of ambassadors who are not in their posts across the world, secretary kerry brought it up in march. so what we've seen here is there is a faction of government that is not interested in governing. and they are using this tactic, they are using the rules to rig the game because they don't have

the votes to repeal the laws or shut down the agencies that they don't want. it is something that we've got to stand up for. to be clear, harry reid, senator reid and the democrats did make enormous progress. had they not changed the rules, we wouldn't have a secretary of labor or a staff d.c. circuit or an epa. it's critical we hold them accountable and that voters hold them accountable and that we get our democracy moving again. >> stephen, to be fair the other side said they wanted to drown government in a bathtub. looks like that. stephen spaulding joining us from washington, d.c. this morning with some of the insider stuff that we really need to understand, thank you very much. >> thank you, melissa. this morning, we have a lot to get to. the shake-up at "the new york times," 60th anniversary of brown v. board, the incredible thing happening in the south that we should all be very concerned about. but before we get to that, we have to talk about beyonce. [ female announcer ] late night? crazy morning?

try new olay fresh effects everything off wipes to remove makeup. and bright on schedule eye roller to instantly depuff. for instant beauty sleep, no sleep required. but add brand new belongings from nationwide insurance... ...and we'll replace destroyed or stolen items with brand-new versions. we take care of the heat, so you don't get burned. just another way we put members first, because we don't have shareholders. join the nation. ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪

dog: what's this? mattress discounters' what's this? mattress discounters' memorial day sale ending? but mattress discounters has the largest selection of memory foam mattresses under one "roof." comforpedic, icomfort, optimum, and wow, four years interest-free financing on the entire tempur-pedic cloud collection, even a queen size sealy gel memory foam mattress for just $497. the memorial day sale is ending soon. ♪ mattress discounters

pressure is mounting on the nigerian government to step up efforts to find more than 200 schoolgirls who were abducted last month. friday, president goodluck jonathan reportedly canceled a visit to the sent. he went on to paris instead for a summit on the crisis. the terror group responsible for the kidnapping, boko haram, released a video earlier this week of some of the girls. american surveillance planes have flown over the place where the girls are believed to be held. even with the international help, u.s. officials are questioning whether the nigerian government and military can rescue the girls. the pentagon's principal director for african affairs

testified before the senate foreign relations commission on thursday. >> mr. chairman, as dedicated as the department of defense is to supporting nigeria in its fight against boko haram and recovering these girls safely, nigeria can be an extremely challenging partner to work with. in the face of this sophisticated threat, nigeria's security forces have been slow to adapt with new strategies, new doctrines and new tactics. >> according to state department officials, boko haram, which is opposed to western-style education, has already killed more than 1,000 people in attacks this year alone. we'll continue to follow this story and bring you the latest on the search for the missing girls. we'll be right back. ...failure to disappear. a backyard invasion. homeowner takes matters into his own hands. ♪ ortho weed b gon max. with the one-touch, continuous spray wand... kills weeds without harming innocent lawns.

guaranteed. weeds killed. lawn restored. justice served. weed b gon max with the one-touch wand. get order. get ortho®. a short word that's a tall order. up your game. up the ante. and if you stumble, you get back up. up isn't easy, and we ought to know. we're in the business of up. everyday delta flies a quarter of million people while investing billions improving everything from booking to baggage claim. we're raising the bar on flying and tomorrow we will up it yet again. ♪ ♪ ♪

woooooah. ♪ [ male announcer ] you're not just looking for a house. you're looking for a place for your life to happen. zillow. the numbers are impressive. over 400,000 new private sector jobs... making new york state number two in the nation in new private sector job creation... with 10 regional development strategies to fit your business needs. and now it's even better because they've introduced startup new york... with the state creating dozens of tax-free zones where businesses pay no taxes for ten years. become the next business to discover the new new york. [ male announcer ] see if your business qualifies.

that would be my daughter -- hi dad. she's a dietitian. and back when i wasn't eating right, she got me drinking boost. it's got a great taste, and it helps give me the nutrition i was missing. helping me stay more like me. [ female announcer ] boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a delicious taste. grandpa! [ female announcer ] stay strong, stay active with boost. this week it was nearly impossible to resist the urge to click when the internet exploded of seeing pop music's first

family in a way you never have before. we see solange knowles lashing out at jay-z as beyonce looks on without getting very involved. the video goes on for three more minutes during which another man tries to restrain solange before the doors open. and the group finally emerges from the elevator. the footage has no sound. so for the viewing audience, the drama unfolded like a silent film which opened up a vacuum we've been happy to fill with speculation over the answer to one question -- what set solange off? for now, at least, the only definitive answer is, we may never know. on thursday, the three showed a unified front against the scrutiny, releasing a joint statement that said in part, our family has worked through it. jay and solange each assume their share of responsibility for what has occurred. they both acknowledge a role in this private manner that has played out in the public. they both have apologized to

each other and we are moved forward as a united family. this is the kind of none of your business response that had long been the status quo for the carters who for years have been tight-lipped about the details of their relationship. for beyonce in particular who up until very recently rarely strayed off the mark from the tightly-controlled and carefully you' curated moves. we, the viewer got to play the voyeur, tiptoeing the line between privacy and public spectacle. beyonce herself gave us a crash course in walking that line just a few short months ago, back in december, the last time the world was captivated by a video showing the carters as you've never seen them before. without warning, beyonce dropped her monster fifth album, an epic

14-song, visual extravaganza that among other things pulled back the curtain on the intimate particulars of her marriage to jay jay-z. on "partition" she leaves very little to the imagination about just exactly how she and jay get down in the bedroom or in this case, the back of a limo. livan all that beyonce is showing us in this video and that she is showing it all, it is understandably easy to miss what she's really saying to us. if we listen closely, we hear in "partition" beyonce making a claim for personal autonomy even in the midst of very public spectatorship. even as she is inviting us to be an audience to the public performance of her sexuality, she's making it clear we are being allowed only to look on her terms and through a lens of her creation. the name of the song is, after all "partition."

it suggests that nothing that happens after the first verse or on the other side of that physical divide is available for the scrutinizing gaze of either the driver or anyone else other than her husband. it's a point she underscores later on in the video when the audience for her sexy strip tease is revealed to be the cigar-smoking jay-z. but reconsider her performance within the context of the entire video. when the song ends. beyonce is in the very same place she was at its beginning -- seated at the end of a breakfast table opposite a man who is ignoring her behind a newspaper. what we've all just seen is a fantasy. it's all happening in her mind behind a partition that she controls, ultimately "partition" confirms what we've long known about king "b," that she is a masterful manipulator of the terms under which we're allowed into her private space. but we also know that this question of privacy is about much more than the right of

celebrities to be left alone during their most personal moments. after all, the need to protect the zone of privacy was the very language used by the supreme court when it upheld a woman's right to an abortion in roe v. wade. this year alone, at least 18 states have considered proposals to drug test public assistance applicants. the injustice of asking poor people to give up their privacy rights in exchange for benefits is as the heart of the privacy debate. as we've seen this week, not even beyonce is immune to the imposition on our private lives which begs the broader question, how could any of us put up a partition when we're all increasingly living in a world where someone else is always watching? more on that with my table after the break. cars are driven by people. they're why we innovate. they're who we protect. they're why we make life less complicated. it's about people.

we are volvo of sweden. and i'm his mom at the dog park. the kids get trail mix, and here's what you get after a full day of chasing that cute little poodle from down the street. mm hmm delicious milo's kitchen chicken meatballs. they look homemade, which he likes almost as much as making new friends yes, i'll call her. aww, ladies' man. milo's kitchen. made in the usa with chicken or beef as the number one ingredient. the best treats come from the kitchen. dog: what's this? what's this? mattress discounters' memorial day sale ending? mattress discounters' but mattress discounters has the largest selection of memory foam mattresses under one "roof." comforpedic, icomfort, optimum,

and wow, four years interest-free financing on the entire tempur-pedic cloud collection, even a queen size sealy gel memory foam mattress for just $497. the memorial day sale is ending soon. ♪ mattress discounters that corporate trial by fire when every slacker gets his due. and yet, there's someone around the office who hasn't had a performance review in a while. someone whose poor performance is slowing down the entire organization. i'm looking at you phone company dsl. check your speed. see how fast your internet can be. switch now and add voice and tv for $34.90. comcast business built for business.

we're back and talking about the leaked surveillance tape that made a public spectacle of

a private family dispute involving solange knowles, beyonce and jay-z. here to help me tackle these questions is a group of people that spent a lot of time covering celebrities. joining me is janet mock, the author of "redefining realness." who you may not also know is a former staff editor for people.com. also john norris and currently music contributor to the website refinery 2009. i never get to do this kind of segment. also ici alicia, i want to start with you. i don't want to fuel the speculation. but i'm interested in the fact that it has -- somehow the silence of it then leads all of us to want to intervene with our narratives about it and it feels

like it's in part because the carters are a fairly private public family. >> you hit it on the head. i was there at the met gala. i've interviewed both of them over the years. they walked the red carpet together. solange came first. this incident went down at the after party. celebrities feel very safe at this hotel. i know what happened inside. but you saw what went down in the elevator. that was beyonce's longtime bodyguard that pulled solange off. the person that sold this video has been fired and will be prosecuted. the video was shopped around for five days. but people are very curious about it because this is a family that's kept it so tight. they put out a joint statement to the "associated press" saying, you know what, all

families have problems. we're moving on together. >> for me, part of -- as i was watching it, i'm enough of a social scientist to have studieded the hawthorn effect. as i watched it -- i could have totally been imposing this. but i have this sense of some of the folks in that elevator may have a sense that -- as much as it's a safe space for celebrities -- that there's never a safe space. i wonder about that hawthorn effect, that there's never a safe space. how it impacts people's lives? >> the one in that elevator who seemed to most be aware of that was beyonce. she was practically -- >> she never seemed to problem the public self. >> what a contrast between still livid solange, jay who looked stunned by the whole incident and then just the game face on with beyonce.

there absolutely is -- i think that effect is real. in solange's case, whatever -- and you may know more about that. but whatever the reasons, clearly, there's not too many things that inspire that level of ire, of anger. yeah, i don't know whether solange even thought, this is a private space, this is my chance to show what i'm feeling at this moment or not. >> part of what i'm interested in, as i think about this, as i think about the tight control of the space, it seems like -- again, i don't know. seems like beyonce is maybe still aware of the possibility of cameras. and yet i think to myself, this is also a family, not just them, but so much of the work that we do in the world, that i do in the world, requires the publicity, requires the cameras, requires the public life. so i'm thinking for example of michael sam this week who is having this private, intimate moment of love, of kissing his partner as he is drafted and

yet -- you want to be able to use the public visuals for that. but you also want to be able to have a private space. how do we think about that privacy working? >> i think it's so interesting. i think for celebrities who can have everything, the one luxury really is privacy, right? so beyonce is someone who is fiercely filtered. >> yeah, literally filters to make her look better. >> well, she doesn't need it. >> no, no, no. i'm going to start putting in my rider, you must make me glow. >> she's the center of her own universe. she creates this image for us to partake in. what's so interesting is that celebrities are trend setters in the sense that they tell us where we're going. they show us a mirror onto where we're going. in this instance, no one's going to pay $250,000 to see my video footage. we are all beyonce in that

elevator because we're all being followed. >> there are ordinary people who go viral on youtube all the time. >> ordinary people usually go viral on youtube either as something very touching or they're just acting ridiculous. about beyonce and jay-z in this video, it doesn't harm them at all because they kept their composure. she's been doing this since she was a little girl. they are nice people. socially, they're nice people. if you look at the lip-synching controversy that happened at inauguration, i was there for that. and i also was at the super bowl when she sang and dropped the mike. it's not a break from image. >> when we talk about what might hurt or harm -- let's go to the classic moment of surveillance and our desire to consume celebrity. and that's princess diana, the death of princess diana, apparently running from paparazzi. but that's a moment where there are professionals who are

going -- i think about the idea that now every one of us is paparazzi for -- >> sure. >> not only for the famous but also for your friend who you can catch doing something ridiculous and youtube. >> it's a valid comparison. a lot of times we off-handedly refer to the carters as pop royalty. but it's about a comparison in that there is almost this fortress of solitude and privacy not unlike the royal family. and the kind of -- that oppressive privacy was something that diana got, i think, over the years increasingly uncomfortable with. and beyonce is absolutely, i think, the most controlled and probably -- i've been covering pop music a long time. i've never seen a woman in music as universally sort of lauded and admired -- it's hard to -- >> that's the whole thing -- she put it up on her own instagram

account -- >> it's hard to have it both ways. she changes the game by releasing this album digitally. you can cut out the middleman. she releases directly to everybody. then also it's the flip side. everybody's a journalist nowadays and everybody have a camera phone. just because you have a superstar and because you are famous, there should be some right of privacy. it was wrong. >> so this idea of a right of privacy, i want to push it a little bit with you, janet, because your work as a trans-activist is specifically about revealing and telling us your story. and yet i have seen media interviews where you've said, i'm going to tell you this much. and because of the salacious nature of our notions of sexuality, people want to ask you not just this much but everything. and questions that aren't even reasonable questions to ask people.

again, you need the public to read it and to do it because this is how the activism works. yet it also means you get asked these kinds of questions. how do you walk that? >> what's so interesting about this is this idea of disclosure. being able to have the space and saying what we want to tell and whom we want to tell. what's unique about michael sam's situation is the idea that he knows that he's a part of this media moment and tradition for nfl draftees. you can cry and express your love and affection for your beloved whether it's your mother, your father, your agent, and in this case, your boyfriend. so for him, even though he's being watched in this instance, he knows that he has no right to privacy in this space but he can control the narrative and he can turn it into a political moment by kissing a white man and

shattering our taboos about interracial couples, about the ideas of same gender-loving people. >> we're going to take a break. i want to come back on this idea of your right to tell -- >> we have new news about michael that's in right now. >> look at you just -- >> sorry, girl. >> it's already. i don't know who's going to run it when we come back. but somebody will. when jake and i first set out on our own,

we ate anything. but in time you realize the better you eat, the better you feel. these days we both eat smarter. and i give jake purina cat chow naturals. made with real chicken and salmon, it's high in protein like a cat's natural diet. and no added artificial flavors. we've come a long way. and whatever's ahead, we'll be there for each other. naturally. purina cat chow naturals.

to help people clean better, and that he travels the world inventing amazing new cleaners, like his newest invention, liquid muscle, that lifts and cleans tough grease with less scrubbing. it's a liquid gel, so it's less watery and cleans more. and its cap stops by itself so almost nothing's wasted. ♪ no matter where he went or who he helped, people couldn't thank him enough.

new mr. clean liquid muscle. when it comes to clean, there's only one mr. is all ready the brand ofstate. the year.d berkshire hathaway home services. good to know. we're back and using beyonce as an excuse to talk about issues surrounding privacy. tell the news here about michael sam a little bit. >> michael sam was supposed to do a documentary with oprah following his journey being the first openly gay player in the

nfl. it was just announced he's decided to put the series on hold. his reps are saying, we want him to really focus on being in the nfl saying, we didn't even know he had this deal until three days before the draft. >> do you read that as sort of what it is on the surface? here's a young recruit and we really want him to play or do you read it as the nfl is still not being prepared to fully engage an out player? >> i think it's both. michael knows he's a trail blazer. but i have a lot of friends in the nfl who went to usc. you have to be hyperfocused. it's a small percentage that make it past three years. you have to have full focus. >> as long as we're on sports, i want to talk about don sterling here. that was the other moment in which there was a tape, in this case, an audio recording rather than a video, that violates privacy in an important way,

someone who thinks they're in a private conversation and becomes public. but i didn't have the same angst about it. is there a public right to know that conflicts with that privacy question? >> well, i think the public feels there is. i don't think many people in the wake of the sterling tapes, the stiviano tapes being released felt, we violated this octogenarians privacy because it's given us a window into his plantation-era views and everything that transpired as a result of that. now let's imagine the people in question had been someone on the order of jay and beyonce and solange. we can certainly imagine a scenario where something could be recorded that would be so egregious and so objectionable that our focus would not be on the violation of privacy but on the substance of what was --

what came out of it. >> let's be clear. had the physical altercation been jay-z performing that level of physical altercation on solange rather than the other way around, i think we would be at exactly what you would call a kind of violation so high that no one would care about the privacy question anymore. the fact that we know about chris brown and rihanna, which was part of a public matter because there was an arrest. but that said, are we holding a double standard? should we be as appalled by solange's actions vis-a-vis jay's corporal autonomy there? >> yeah, in fact, i was talking with a friend about this the other day. there was a lot in the reaction -- twitter reaction and online reaction to that incident was dismissive of solange's anger. almost in a -- i think anytime you see a female acting in anger -- not any time, but often you see this sort of derisive dismissive --

>> she's just a woman, she's crazy. she's an angry black woman. >> i disagree with that a little bit. it was dismissive but it's also because they're family. they're family. it was not our business. i think donald sterling, the difference was, if you had any sympathy for him being recorded, he didn't do himself any favors with what he followed up and said. >> absolutely. it's not even a matter of sympathy so much as it is, you talked about disclosure and the last time you were here -- maybe the time before that. we did our kerry washington scandal watch party. she manages her disclosure in a way that is almost completely different than everyone else in hollywood these days. it feels like there's a power in that. that ability to hold back the private and say, this belongs to me, not to instagram, not to twitter. >> it's definitely these people's rights to say, this is

the lens we want people to see us. but i find it disturbing that a star like her, a famous black woman could have that level of privacy, why is she invisible in this sense? i do believe that she chooses to. but are as many cameras outside her home following her as, say, some "c"-list blonde celebrity on television that would have the same level of fame -- >> she's very active on social media. this is a smart woman. she's chosen to step back from the fame. >> and there is something very lovely about the ability to say, my public life is in fact a thing that is distinct from my private life. on the other hand, i have celebrities that i follow on instagram and twitter and show me their dogs in the pool. i wonder if social media has changed the whole thing for us. is it just us revealing, us disclosing? >> yeah. and people use it different ways. only a few weeks ago, miley was

in the hospital instagraming every shot of her with an oxygen mask on and every detail of that. it might be generational to a degree. but those kids, there's not much they leave undocumented. >> get off my instagram lawn, kids. i appreciate this. i also want to make sure we continue to think forward. remember, privacy, the notion of privacy, it's certainly about how we feel but it's also about these fundamental rights. it's about whether or not we have a public right to know about chris brown and r. kelly and other kinds of questions. my thanks to janet, john and alicia. you guys should all come back. you can guest host next time. >> girl! next, there is a thing happening in the south that is not limited to just one state. it's been happening for some time. it continues to happen. there are plans for it to happen even more. pretty soon, there's going to be

a big, huge swath of the country where a lot of people need to be worried if something isn't done to stop it. [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ she can print amazing things, right from her computer. [ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] she makes trains that are friends with trees. ♪ my mom works at ge. ♪ improving everything from booking to baggage claim. we're raising the bar on flying and tomorrow we'll raise it yet again. new business owner, it would be one thing i've learned is my philosophy is real simple american express open forum is an on-line community, that helps our members connect and share ideas

to make smart business decisions. if you mess up, fess up. be your partners best partner. we built it for our members, but it's open for everyone. there's not one way to do something. no details too small. american express open forum. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. trwith secure wifie for your business. it also comes with public wifi for your customers.

not so with internet from the phone company. i would email the phone company to inquire as to why they have shortchanged these customers. but that would require wifi. switch to comcast business internet and get two wifi networks included. comcast business built for business.

in the last three months of 1969, more than 600 american women traveled to the united kingdom. that was the year that the beatles gave their final concert. but that is not why these women made the trip. two years prior, the uk changed its abortion laws, making the procedure legal with the written consent of two physicians. the american women who could not legally have an abortion in their home country traveled across an ocean for the procedure. an expensive undertaking. of course, that financial burden was also a privilege. their alternative was undergoing a procedure that was likely illegal, hard to obtain and potentially fatal. in 1965, 17% of pregnancy and childbirth-related deaths were the result of abortion. then in 1973, the supreme court made its landmark ruling in roe

versus wade, holding a woman's right to an abortion was constitutionally protected. in the subsequent years, deaths resulting from abortion dropped. women began having abortions earlier in their pregnancies. so let me ask, have we forgotten that history and are we doomed to repeat it? in several southern states, it seems possible. listen to mississippi governor phil bryant. >> on this unfortunate date of roe v. wade, my goal is to end abortion in mississippi. >> and bryant has been working to live up to that promise. mississippi only has one abortion clinic. and in 2012, passed a law that would shut it down. the clinic is only still open because the law is being challenged in court. but according to the state, closing it won't burden women seeking abortions. according to mississippi attorney paul barnes, there's nothing inherently burdensome about crossing state lines. and mississippi is, he claims, surrounded by major metropolitan

areas where abortion clinics and abortion facilities are available. surrounded? okay. let's say the mississippi law stands and the clinic closes. a woman seeking an abortion would first need access to transportation, expendable cash and the ability to take time off work or caring for her other children which already seems pretty burdensome. the closest state she could travel to is louisiana where there are only five clinics. but legislation working its way through the state senate right now could reduce that number to just two. now, further west is texas. the state has an estimated 24 clinics, at least until september when a law passed last year takes effect. it is expected to close all but six clinics in the state of texas. east of mississippi, you wouldn't fare much better. the next state over alabama only has five clinics. but also has passed a law currently blocked by the court pending appeal that could reduce that number to only two.

in case you weren't keeping count, that would leave ten. ten clinics that provide termination services in this entire stretch of the south. mississippi's lawyers said their case turns on the authority of the state to regulate the health and safety of women. but if access is taken away, we know what happens next. history tells us the story. and it is not a safe one. [announcer] if your dog can dream it, purina pro plan can help him achieve it. ♪ epic classical music stops ♪music resumes music stops ♪music resumes [announcer] purina pro plan's bioavailable formulas deliver optimal nutrient absorption. [owner] come on. [announcer] purina pro plan. nutrition that performs. ameriprise asked people a simple question: in retirement, will you outlive your money?

uhhh. no, that can't happen. that's the thing, you don't know how long it has to last. everyone has retirement questions. so ameriprise created the exclusive.. confident retirement approach. now you and your ameripise advisor can get the real answers you need. well, knowing gives you confidence. start building your confident retirement today. this is mike. his long race day starts with back pain...

...and a choice. take 4 advil in a day which is 2 aleve... ...for all day relief. "start your engines" if you have a business idea, we have a personalized legal solution that's right for you. with easy step-by-step guidance, we're here to help you turn your dream into a reality. start your business today with legalzoom.

little things, anyone can do. it steals your memories. your independence. insures support. a breakthrough. and sooner than you'd like... ...sooner than you think. ...you die from alzheimer's disease. ...we cure alzheimer's disease. every little click, call, or donation adds up to something big. alzheimer's association. the brains behind saving yours. welcome back. i'm melissa harris-perry. history was made in "the new york times" newsroom this wednesday when managing editor dean mckay was promoted to executive editor. the first african-american to fill the top job and what is the biggest name in american newspapers. still, this is the gray lady where all the news fit to print is printed. now a black man has what is arguably the most prominent job

in all of u.s. journalism. he's even a native son of new orleans. this should be a great moment, right? something to celebrate? a big deal. until i also learned just why the job was open in the first place. his predecessor, jill abramson, the first woman to ever be "the times'" editor was fired after less than three years on the job. everyone gobsmacked over her leaning and dean taking over, tweeted one of the arts and culture reporter. the news kept getting more complicated. next "the new yorker" reported that abramson covered her pay and pension benefits as both executive editor and before that managing editor were considerably less than the pension pay and benefits of bill keller. the report that there was a

management rumor that she was, quote, pushy, and that she told the publisher about the pay gap. the internal memo soon became external. he wrote, quote, it is simply not true that jill's compensation was significantly less than her predecessors. her pay is comparable to that of earlier executive editors. compensation played no part whatsoever in my decision that jill could not remain editor. should we be celebrating or criticizing "the new york times" in this moment? before we get do that. let's pause for a second and ask, why exactly we should care about diversity in the newsroom at all? what difference does it make if a black man or a white woman is calling the shots at "the new york times" or at your local radio station or on your favorite cable news show. obviously i am not a dispassionate observer of

diversity in american media. but let's be clear. "the new york times" leadership shake-up isn't the first installment in an ongoing debate about what difference diversity makes in our news. in march, the national association of black journalists penned an open letter to news media start-ups expressing both their enthusiasm for the endeavors and this -- but our excitement has turned to concern as the parade of recent hires hardly reflects a commitment to ensuring that these new newsrooms reflect all the news they will cover. and then a piece was penned entitled "the unbearable whiteness of liberal media" and asked the question, if left-leaning publications value diversity, why don't they have any? the author says, nearly 40% of the country is non-white and/or hispanic. but the number of minorities at the outlets included in the article's tally, most of them self-identified as liberal or progressive, hovers around 10%.

so i return to the question, what difference does newsroom diversity make and why should we care? to help me answer the question is farai and from washington, d.c. is richard prince. so nice to have you both. >> good to be here. >> richard, let me start with you and just ask you that question. why should we care about newsroom diversity? >> well, the kerner commission in the late '60s after the riots answered the question very well. they said because of the lack of diversity in our newsrooms, it was one of the contributing factors to the riots because people didn't understand what was really going on in our inner cities. and you have to have a newsroom that reflects america to present to america what's going on. it's really a question of accuracy. >> okay. hold that for a second. this is, i think, just an

important claim. but i wonder how we can make that claim without going into kind of a narrative that says, black people report on these kind of reports and latinos report on these kind of stories and women report on these kind of stories. how do you do that without saying all women, black folks, latinos are the same kind of people? >> first of all, i think that that the incredible diversity among us as black people or whatever you are, white people, is important. but what is really important is to have healthy debate with your colleagues. from the beginning of my career, the stories i did were shaped by interactions with my colleagues. during the central park jogger case, i remember there being tense fights in the newsroom that informed our coverage. during the coverage of o.j. simpson, during the coverage of president obama's presidency. and it's important to have a diverse newsroom. otherwise you have an echo

chamber. people between the ages of 25 and 35. i'm a white guy with a beard and a trucker hat and i go to williamsburg and drink pbr. that's just a stereotype of a start-up culture. news start-ups can be the same. echo chambers for people with similar backgrounds. >> if you don't make tv or you don't write for a paper, you may not know how ideas go from just existing out there in the world to making it to a front page. what difference does it make not just to have a diverse newsroom but particularly the leadership, the editors? we heard about talking to your colleagues. but what do editors do and why does that make a difference? >> editors talk to their colleagues and to the people in the newsroom as well. a lot of ideas spring out from news meetings. it's important who's in that

news meeting to decide what's going to be on the front page. what's going to be at the head of the newscast. we've had so many examples, the trayvon martin case is one, the case of the nigerian schoolgirls is another. it makes a difference who's in that room and how fast the news gets to viewers and social media has shown up a lot of the mainstream media in cases like that because they are closer to the ground that a lot of people in the news media -- >> we've been looking at some images of dean as you've been talking. he's had a very long year. very long career. will "the new york times" be a different kind of paper under him? >> we don't know yet. but he has a background of going to all-black schools in new orleans, for example. >> st. aug. >> exactly. and a sterling background as an investigative reporter and a reputation for getting -- really

getting along with his staff and inspiring them and being well-liked. so it will depend on how he can harness all those resources to the product that is "the new york times." >> i want to step back for a second. on the one hand, we maybe are celebrating dean becoming the executive editor but also this angst about ms. abramson. there was the idea that for both folks, the first woman, the first african-american, that this might actually be a hallow prize or a glass cliff. "it's a description of an increasingly common occurrence, what happens when people who've long been sidelined from power." is this a glass cliff? in other words, is print newspapers dead and therefore since it is, well, these diverse

people can run it? >> i've had many conversations about this, including the conversation about just as women and people of color are gaining power in mainstream institutions, the power brokers, the white power brokers are moving on to their own start-ups. that's a transition that has to do with money. here's something that i would point out. jill abramson was widely criticized for her digital strategy. and there was a leaked document that has been going around, an internal strategy document, showing that "the times" itself thought its digital strategy was flawed. that enough and the low numbers may have been enough to get her fired. but we'll never know. there's so much we don't know about. but what dean has to do is turn around "the times'" digital franchise. it's not that he has inherited a franchise that doesn't have power. but he has one where part of the ship is going over the side of a waterfall, the digital side is really needing some help.

the print side compared to other print publications is going strong. so it depends on whether he can harness digital power in the digital age. >> the nabj has said about these media start-ups, they're very concerned that the hiring practices, or the similar hiring practices of hiring the folks we know, that's what folks do. and as a result, you end up creating non-diverse or homogenous newsrooms. is there a way for us -- taking seriously what it means to be a start-up, having a small amount of run money and yet really bring pressure to say, we need to hear from a diverse population of journalists? >> yes, i think we need to have more ownership in the hands of journalists of color and people of color. that requires capital. and that's where a lot of the problem has been. lack of access to capital. so let's get some shoutouts and

some applause to those working on that end. on the business about jill abramson, i have to point out the pay issue has become a flashpoint. but like a lot of things, it shouldn't really be oversimplified. there were other aspects to jill abramson's tenure that caused problems. let's just boil them down to saying you've got to know how to get along with your bosses if you want to succeed in any business. and i think that that was the real issue here. >> it's interesting you say that, richard, we're out of time, but there is also -- as part of that, there's this question about whether or not women have a harder time getting along with their bosses, in part because there are gender barriers. >> well, the boss chose her. >> yeah. interesting. richard prince, i love reading your journalisms. i have for a long time. you always have inside stuff that we don't all know about. thank you for your work. >> thank you for having me. >> and thank you to farai -- the other part of the answer to how you get more diversity is you

are training students. as you do that -- >> i also train them in media economics because that is critical. >> you have to report and you have to own it. up next, my letter of the week. [ male announcer ] we don't sit idle wondering how we're going to build a better truck. we get out there and walk a mile, thousands of miles, in the footsteps of the guys we build trucks for. the groundbreaking ram heavy duty with 30,000 pounds of towing and 850 pound-feet of torque. ♪

mayo? corn dogs? you are so outta here! aah! [ female announcer ] the complete balanced nutrition

of great-tasting ensure. 24 vitamins and minerals, antioxidants, and 9 grams of protein. [ bottle ] ensure®. nutrition in charge™. female narrator: the mattress price wars are on the mattress price wars are on at sleep train. we challenged the manufacturers to offer even lower prices. now it's posturepedic versus beautyrest with big savings of up to $400 off. serta icomfort and tempur-pedic go head-to-head with three years' interest-free financing. plus, free same-day delivery, set-up, and removal of your old set. when brands compete, you save. mattress price wars are on now at sleep train. ♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪

speaking of diversity in the newsroom, yesterday marked the end of a 50-year-plus daily media career which is as legendary as it is groundbreaking. and it's why my letter this week goes to the gran dame of media. barbara walters brought out hillary clinton, michael douglas and oprah. while it was nice to see the uber-famous come out to toast your career, it was really lovely to see salutes from the 25 women broadcasters from every

major network, including nbc's own savannah guthrie, tamron hall and hoda and kathie lee. it's fitting since your talents have graced every major network since 1961 when you moved from local tv to the big-time at nbc's the "today" show has a researcher and writer. you lobbied for the first of your big gets for first lady jacqueline kennedy. you were chosen to travel as port of the press corps with president nixon on his historic trip to china. and because of your skill and tenacity, you would go from being known as the "today" girl to the host and won your emmy the next year. in 1976, you made history by becoming the first woman to co-anchor a network evening news program when you moved over to abc. you moderated the presidential debate between jimmy carter and

gerald ford and started the first of a series of barbara walters specials where you would redefine getting the get and conducted the first joint interview with the israeli prime minister and the egyptian president. when you joined abc's "20/20," your gets kept getting bigger when you exclusively interviewed former president richard nixon in 1980 and your two-hour exclusive interview with monica lewinsky in 1999 became the highes highest-rated news program ever broadcast. gadhafi, castro, just to name a few. in 2000, you smashed the glass ceiling when you renewed your contract with abc news for $12 million. but it was what you did in 1997 that served as an example of your efforts to have women front and center. you created "the view," a space that allowed five women to talk about politics and family and careers. so wildly successful that it is fast approaching the 20-year

mark. you made it to go to be fearless in a male-dominated industry. you made it cool to be boss and to be authentically yourself. while you are not about to go off into the sunset, you are about to take a well-deserved rest. but before you go, as a woman who's benefited from the doors you opened, thank you. sincerely, melissa. are those made with all-beef, karen? yeah, they're hebrew national. but unlike yours, they're also kosher. kosher? yeah, they're really choosy about what goes in. so, only certain cuts of kosher beef meet their strict standards and then they pick the best from that. oh man! what'd we do? they're all ruined.

help yourself! oh no, we couldn...okay thanks. when you hot dog's kosher, thats a hot dog you can trust. hebrew national. so i'm going pro. [ male announcer ] new crest tartar protection rinse. the only rinse that helps prevent tartar build-up and cavities. a little swishing. less scraping. yes! [ male announcer ] new crest pro-health tartar protection rinse. it helps you escape the scrape. and that's epic, bro, we've forgotten just how good good is. good is setting a personal best before going for a world record. good is swinging to get on base before swinging for a home run. [ crowd cheering ] good is choosing not to overshoot the moon, but to land right on it and do some experiments. ♪ so start your day off good with a coffee that's good cup after cup. maxwell house. ♪ good to the last drop why let erectile dysfunction get in your way? talk to your doctor about viagra.

ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain. it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. side effects include headache, flushing, upset stomach, and abnormal vision. to avoid long term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away if you experience a sudden decrease or loss in vision or hearing. this is the age of taking action. viagra. talk to your doctor. if your doctor decides viagra is right for you, you can fill your prescription at your pharmacy. or, check out viagra home delivery, a convenient place to fill your prescription online and have it shipped at no additional cost straight to your door. viagra home delivery. get started at viagra.com. you're an emailing, texting, master of the digital universe. but do you protect yourself? ♪ apparently not. when you access everything, you give everyone access to everything about you. but that's ok. while you do your thing... [ alert rings ] we'll be here at lifelock, doing our thing. watching out for things your credit card alone can't. [ alert rings ]

and relentlessly protecting your identity. get lifelock protection and live life free. [ alert rings ] cut! [bell rings] this...is jane. her long day on set starts with shoulder pain... ...and a choice take 6 tylenol in a day which is 2 aleve for... ...all day relief. hmm. [bell ring] "roll sound!" "action!" 60 years ago today the brown versus board of education case was decided by the supreme court outlawing school segregation in the united states. last night, first lady michelle obama commemorated that anniversary by speaking to graduating high school seniors in topeka, kansas, the city where it all began. >> eventually these parents went to court to desegregate their children's schools because was one of the children later explained as an adult, she said,

we were talking about the principle of the thing. think about that for a moment. those folks had to go all the way to the supreme court of the united states just to affirm the principle that black kids and white kids should be able to attend school together. >> to understand how the supreme court decided in a unanimous decision to end legal school segregation, first you need to meet the clarks, kenneth and his wife, mamie phipps. together in the 1940s, they devised a series of experiments to find out how young people were impacted by racial segregation. in the most famous known as the doll test, the clarks offered african-american children between the ages of 3 and 7 the choice between two dolls, a white doll and a brown doll. most of the children chose the white doll as the one they wanted to play with. and mostly labeled the white doll as nice and the brown doll

as bad. kenneth clark said, quote, the negro child accepts as early as 6, 7 or 8 the negative stereotypes about his own group. it was this conclusion that helped convince the united states supreme court to strike down segregation in public schools 60 years ago today. the unanimous court wrote in brown v. board of education, to separate schoolchildren from others of similar age and qualifications solely because of their race generates a feeling of inferiority as to their status in the community that may affect their hearts and minds in a way unlikely ever to be undone. this finding is amply supported by modern authority. that modern authority included the clarks' research that led the court to conclude that separate educational facilities are inherently unequal. that was 60 years ago today. for many years, things improved thanks in part to strict federal enforcement and longstanding court orders.

but today, segregation in our public schools remains. consider that less than a quarter of african-american students now attend a mostly white school, according to a new report by the ucla civil rights project. in the south, schools have backslid to where they were in 1967, all progress toward integration since then, erased. it's detailed in segregation now looking at the schools in tuscaloosa, alabama. it focuses on central high school, now more than 99% african-american, the result of increasing segregation since a judge released the city from a court order to integrate. according to the piece. now, the state of alabama considers central a failing school, 80% of students aren't expected to go to college, 35% of its seniors fail to graduate each year. in other words, it's hard to see how central high's students have benefited from the recession

ga -- recessi recessi resegregation of their schools. help us understand this. >> before the court order, the tuscaloosa city stools were majority white school systems. once they were forced to desegregate, they experienced a great deal of white flight. and this really concerned city leadership. so they began kind of a series of secret meetings to try to figure out how to get released from that court order and then to be able to create kind of a cluster of schools where white students would be in the majority or at least close to it. they knew that in order to do that, they were going to have to get the support of at least some prominent black officials in tuscaloosa. >> we didn't talk to you but

talked about some of your reporting on housing a couple of weeks ago when we talked about the problems of housing integration and how once you get to a certain sort of tipping point, a neighborhood will move from being integrated to being basically all of the racial minority group. it feels to me like something similar is going on here with the schools. almost as though students of color reduce the property value as a way of putting it of their schools? >> yeah, you could definitely say that. you do need some historical context where the initial fights and the initial white flight was really an opposition to any black students attending white schools. so that's what started it. but then it kind of becomes self-replicating. in the south, people tend to say that once a school becomes 70% black or a district becomes 70% black, it quickly loses all of its white students. that was the fear in tuscaloosa. by the time the district was

trying to get out from under its court order, it had gone from more than 60% white to less than 30% white. and they believe that the court order was the cause. >> i want to pause for a moment and come out to my table. i have some folks on my panel that i want to give them an opportunity to ask you questions but i also want to ask them a bit here. here in new york is judith brown dianes and julio vazquez, hali parter and tremaine lee. it's easy when we start with brown and then we go to tuscaloosa, alabama, to see this as a black/white issue. and, in fact, our public schools are now a black/brown issue in many ways. talk to me a little bit about how nikole's findings are

different from yours in texas. >> latinos are the most segregated in california. we had to think about immigrant students and emergent bilingual students. in texas, those students are triple segregated, by race, class and also segregated into those students that are learning english. we often talk about this demography determines destiny. in texas, if you conduct the statistical analysis, you find those schools that are triple segregated are more likely to be low-performi low-performing. this is a really big issue. >> nikole, let me come back to you on that. if you're talking about community leaders cutting deals to keep certain types of kids and certain types of parents in the public schools and we know this dmog emography of destiny

triple segregation problem, is this an insoluble segregation problem? >> the issue is the children being segregated are those who are the most vulnerable, who have the least clout in a community. so in tuscaloosa, there are no all-white schools. middle class black americans are largely attending segregated schools in tuscaloosa. what the gerrymandering of what they did in tuscaloosa was create a feeder system that was entirely black and almost entirely poor. and these people can't vote with their feet. that's why they haven't been able to move into a neighborhood where they would be zoned into a better school. >> your work, both your reporting on housing and education, we read it like -- we eat it like jelly beans around here. thank you so much for joining us from portland, oregon, this morning. the rest of my panel is staying with me. we have so much more on this 60th anniversary of brown v. board and next we'll hear what

students have to say about their schools. >> you talk about your school being relatively mixed. i know you might have a precise breakdown. but what percentage do you think are white? a lot of white -- >> it's not a lot of white people there. maybe two, three white people there. >> three? >> about three. when jake and i first set out on our own, we ate anything. but in time you realize the better you eat, the better you feel. these days we both eat smarter. and i give jake purina cat chow naturals. made with real chicken and salmon, it's high in protein like a cat's natural diet. and no added artificial flavors. we've come a long way. and whatever's ahead, we'll be there for each other. naturally. purina cat chow naturals.

trwith secure wifie for your business. it also comes with public wifi for your customers. not so with internet from the phone company. i would email the phone company to inquire as to why they have shortchanged these customers. but that would require wifi.

switch to comcast business internet and get two wifi networks included. comcast business built for business. ameriprise asked people a simple question: can you keep your lifestyle in retirement?

i don't want to think about the alternative. i don't even know how to answer that. i mean, no one knows how long their money is going to last. i try not to worry, but you worry. what happens when your paychecks stop? because everyone has retirement questions. ameriprise created the exclusive confident retirement approach. to get the real answers you need. start building your confident retirement today. according to a 2011 study by brown university researchers, philadelphia is among the most racially segregated cities in the country. that's right, philadelphia, up north. and its african-american students are suffering because of it. researchers found white students in philadelphia go to elementary schools that score in the 66th percentile in reading.

the most extreme racial education gap of any city in the northeast or midwest. this week, msnbc.com reporter tremaine lee went to talk to leaders about their schools. >> i'd love to talk with you all about your experience in your schools and what it's like going to schools that are majority black f you don't see someone of another race, or a lack of diversity, how does it impact your overall learning experience? >> i used to live in a predominantly white neighborhood. then i came here, the education system is poor compareded to what i'm used to. >> you don't have support at all. we have lack of books, resources, anything you can think of. but when we go in contact with these white children or caucasi caucasian, they don't know how to act because they believe they're better than us. and we don't know how to act because we believe they're better than us. >> i would love to go to a good school.

i don't think anybody wouldn't want to go to a good school. but for a kid like me wanting to become something better and try to go to like central, you have to go through a process. and they're going to look at me like, you're serious, right? you just same -- for what? you're just wasting your time, no, you're not coming into my school. >> your school doesn't have a library but the state is building a $400 million prison. >> how does that sound? it don't sound right to me. >> do policymakers and lawmakers listen to you? you get the sense somebody's not listening or nobody cares? >> a lot more people are getting involved and taking to the streets and having their voices heard. they're also starting to show up at the polls. >> when you look into these young people's eyes, what do you see in their eyes and what do

you say to them to give them a sense of hope? >> it is very, very difficult today to even go into the schools because it breaks my heart. it breaks my heart to see my children -- breaks my heart. we have to do better for our children. >> tremaine that moving moment with mr. simmons takes me back to 60 years to kenneth clark and the doll studies that say, you generate inferiority in young people. we heard it in the young woman who said, they think they're better than us and we think they're better than us. >> having the same conversation 60 years later. these communities are socially isolated, economically isolated. but it's not lost on them what they don't have. when they don't have enough desks, they have to sit in a windowsill. they don't have enough books or paper. the mayor of philadelphia has to beg or resources, beg people to

donate paper and supplies. so the heartbreaking part is the kids know it and they feel it. and in some situations, they can point down the block and say, that school is majority white and they have the library and they have technology. at benjamin franklin high school, there's no librarian there. at some schools, there's no nurse on duty. this is 60 years later. clearly unequal. >> hearing you and hearing the passion of the kids. i heard you, you were amen corner over here listening to these young people. this point is so important. it's not like they don't know or they don't -- they do know, they do care and it speaks to who they are as people. >> i remember we were doing field work in the schools in texas. one of the students told me she went to a donkey school. and across town, they know that they're getting excellent education. you don't have to go to finland

or singapore to see an excellent education or school reform at work. just go on the other side of the tracks. what's sad about that commentary is that it works for every city. >> so these two pieces together, i want to come to you on the policy piece because i think that point is so important. the number of times that i hear people say, public schools are failing. and i'm like, well, i lived in a really privileged small town in printt princeton where we paid big property taxes and they were great. it was about underresourced aspects of schools. schools without enough teachers and without enough books -- those schools are feeling it, not public schools. >> i think that's right. one of the focuses in the education reform movement now to bring more resources to schools that are currently struggling comes out of a really positive place. but a lot of times is leaving behind this integration picture. so i think one of the interesting tensions that comes up as you talk about these

schools where they're racially isolated and they're high poverty and there's no library. is the answer then, we get that school a library? is the problem solved or is there a bigger picture that we also need to bring in integration as well. >> thank you for putting that on the table. i don't even know where i stand on that completely. there's a part of me in part because i send my daughter to a single-sex school. and i really believe in all-girls education for a variety of reasons. i get why a community would say, we've got this. we're going to educate our kids because we don't trust the things you will say to them. on the other hand, i want integration to be a -- i want it to be part of like when we're measuring how good a school is, that integration is one aspect of that. >> i'm actually a product of a voluntary bussing program here in new york city. and i went to a school that was a very diverse school. and i will say that there was a lot of benefit to being in a classroom and learning about all

different cultures, et cetera. i have a daughter who is now in a predominantly -- probably 99% black school. i think that it's a good school. but it could be better. but i think that for many communities, it's like, we know that we're not going to get there because the thing that we didn't deal with in brown is the inferiority thing. we didn't deal with white flight. people are still running. your kid's coming to my school? i'm moving out of here, i'm taking them to private schools. so people understand that and so at least give us the resources that our children need so they get high-quality education. >> stay with us. we have a lot more on this. also, you can read more of tremaine's reporting on philadelphia's schools on msnbc.com right now. 60 years after brown v. board, a new fight is looming over equality in our schools. we'll hear about the new complaints of discrimination filed by judith's organization. we'll hear from a.g. holder at that point. but first, more from our first

lady. >> no matter what you do, the point is to never be afraid to talk about these issues, particularly the issue of race because even today, we still struggle to do that. we need all of you to ask the hard questions and have the honest conversations because that is the only way we will heal the wounds of the past and move forward to a better future. tfethmeth dopo r inpa e itcaoupasoe omd r nooukere inpa e 's ke o[ e ouzisupogrip.

you need a bunch of those to clean this mess. then i'll use a bunch of them. then how is that a bargain? [ sighs ] no, that's too many -- it's not gonna fit! whoa! cascade kitchen and math counselor. here's a solution. one pac of cascade complete cleans tough food better than six pacs of the bargain brand combined. so you can tackle tough messes the first time. that is more like it. how are you with taxes? [ laughs ] [ counselor ] and for even more cleaning power, try cascade platinum.

this is mike. his long race day starts with back pain... ...and a choice. take 4 advil in a day which is 2 aleve... ...for all day relief. "start your engines" alright, that should just about do it. excuse me, what are you doing? uh, well we are fine tuning these small cells that improve coverage, capacity and quality of the network. it means you'll be able t post from the breakroom. great!

did it hurt? when you fell from heaven (awkward laugh) ...a little.. (laughs) im sorry, i have to go. at&t is building you a better network. nowchoose one option fromith red lothe wood-fire grill,trios! one signature shrimp dish, and a pasta. all on one plate. three delicious choices. all for $15.99 for a limited time only! come sea food differently today! last year, chicago officials decided to close 49 public elementary schools and a high school program. most of the schools were majority black. in new orleans, most of the public schools are now charter schools. and schools in newark, new jersey, which are under state rather than local control are undergoing a reorganizing that will close and consolidate a quarter of the district's schools. all three are the subjects of federal complaints filed this

week by the advancement project and coalition of community groups. the complaints claim that because african-american students are disproportionately affected, the school closings and other changes violate title 6 of the civil rights act which prohibits discrimination in the use of federal funds. judith, this morning, i want to listen just for a moment, attorney general eric holder spoke at morgan state and basically said there are structural reasons for our education problems. i want to listen to that and then get your response. >> since the era of brown, the laws making classifications based on race has been subjected to a legal standard known as strict [ inaudible ] -- these statutes were tested, failed to pass constitutional muster. but there are other policies [ inaudible ] -- they have the appearance of being race-neutral. their impacts, however, are anything but. and this is the concern we must

contend with today -- policies that impede equal opportunity, in fact, if not in form. >> you filed the complaint with this guy, what he runs. >> that's right. >> he just said things that appear to be race-neutral that have disparate impact. how optimistic are you? >> it seems like school closings is the thing to do across the country. we're seeing it in chicago, new orleans, philadelphia is another place. what we filed was a complaint on behalf of journey for justice alliance, which is an alliance of 22 cities of community folks who are fighting these school closings. we think that what we are doing is that 60 years after the decision, we're taking away educational opportunities of young people. we're closing down the schools. the brown decision said one of the most important functions of the state government is to provide education. but instead what we're doing is we're turning it over to private entities, giving them the public

money to actually siphon it off. and we're killing off our public school systems. so we filed this on behalf of black and latino kids in these cities. >> but everybody says it's school choice. school choice is good for reform. >> they're disinvesting in the schools. others say, you're failing. and you're taking money from one pocket and sliding it into the privatization of public education. how much of this is calculated and an effort to destabilize it to fund the charter movement? >> and one of the things people don't know, for example, in chicago, diet high school, 69 students left because they're phasing it out. those children are taking gym online. they're taking art class online. what we're seeing is also a domino effect. you close one school, you shift them to another school and then you say, that school is failing because you didn't provide resources. then you label those children as failing as then their next school gets closed and so on and

so on. >> i think it's a mistake to think of school choice as an enemy to integration. i think it can be a tool used to forward integration or to work against it and really further segregation. i think in theory, school choice, even charter schools, but especially magnet schools and other options that allow parents to choose could benefit integration. you need to have a public will to prioritize diversity and then you need a strategy to make sure that that's controlled in terms of how students are recruited and admitted. >> when you close down every school in the neighborhood, there's a school desert and our only choice is what you've given us, is it a real choice? >> that's what's happening in chicago. brownville is a driving black community. it is going to have no neighborhood schools left. >> we have a circumstance here where i constantly hear people of goodwill who want to do right -- you asked, how much is this engineers?

but even if it's not, there are some bad people in the private school market who are just there to profit. but there are a lot of people who say, i'm going to help the kids. so what is the key to making reforms that are just -- that have justice at the core of them as well as quality education and the capacity for black and brown and white students to all be real citizens in this country? >> it's an interesting question. one of the challenges is that you have a group of folks that we call neoliberals, the folks interested in privatizing education. in some cases, civil rights advocates -- i call it a motley alliance. there's a lot of data. we have a lot of data on vouchers and charters. what we used to call discrimination we now call civil rights. for example, we talked about how african-americans and latinos underperformed on high-stakes exams. now we talk about the gap as civil rights.

charter schools, we talk about those as civil rights. but on avalanche, charters underperform traditional public schools and are more segregated. we're sending in teachers that have five weeks of training and calling it civil rights. all you have to do is look on the other side of the tracks and you'll see none of those type of reforms. >> these are continuations of the policies of before brown. it's just that we are -- we still see black and latino children as not being worthy of a high-quality education. that is the thing we did not fix with brown and in order to do that, we have to get at hearts and minds. >> how do we do that -- i like hearts and minds. that's what i heard flotus say. but the attorney general was like, we're going to sue some people. is there a way to connect those two.

>> i think choice could be used as a powerful tool. it's politically a lot more viable than a lot of other integration solutions. one interesting place to look at that is hartford, connecticut, where there was a state connec where there was a state segregation case. playing kids from across those different districts. it's been hugely successful. since 2007, the percentage of minority students in hartford who are now in integrated settings have gone to more than 40%. >> the other place where there was success, where there was a clear effort and successful integration of school efforts was wake county in north carolina. really stood as this kind of beacon of the capacity to do this. then what happens, the politics comes in and undoes it in the madness that is now north carolina. >> right, you saw a great backla backlash. >> and then the people came back because they had changed hearts and minds. >> they're screaming at me up there because i would just take the next four hours and they won't let me do that.

i'd like to thank my guests. also, to holly and tremaine, thank you for being here. sharro lynn eiffel of the naacp defense fund is taking your questions exclusively on msnbc.com. answers are going to be published later this week. up next, my foot soldiers. [announcer] if your dog can dream it, purina pro plan can help him achieve it. ♪epic classical music stops ♪music resumes purina pro plan's bioavailable formulas deliver optimal nutrient absorption.

purina pro plan. nutrition that performs. and you want to get an mba. but going back to school is hard. because you work. now capella university offers a revolutionary new way to get your degree. it's called flexpath, and it's the most direct path, leveraging what you've learned on the job and focusing on what you need to know. so you can get a degree at your pace and graduate at the speed of you. flexpath from capella university. learn about all of our programs at capella.edu.

could mean less waiting for things like security backups and file downloads you'd take that test, right? well, what are you waiting for? you could literally be done with the test by now. now you could have done it twice. this is awkward. check your speed. see how fast your internet can be. switch now and add voice and tv for $34.90. comcast business built for business.

you remember class photo day, putting on your best outfit and fixing your hair and smiling for the camera? in san francisco, a high school senior might find her picture missing from the yearbook. because of of what she wore. this is jessica urbina and she's wearing formal wear, just like the rest of her classmates at

sacred heart cathedral preparatory. she's in a tuxedo which violates their dress policy. that policy mandates jacket and tie for boys. an activist was the first to speak up when it appears her picture would appear altered in the facebook. he tweeted this photo and asked everyone to support his sister. now students are rallying to support her. they started a #campaignjessicastux. one of those students is my niece, claudia rodriguez. it moves me to see jessica's classmates standing beside her. in a world of bullying, these teenagers are practicing acceptance with grace. that's why these young people, jessica and her classmates, are our foot soldiers this week. jessica was also touched by this

display. >> i've seen people with all the ties, you know, honestly i've cried multiple times, overwhelmed with all the support, so i just want to thank everybody who's supporting me right now. >> here's what the school had to say. these events have sparked a campuswide dialogue which will result in a revision of policy. now, the school hasn't given a definite answer about whether jessica's picture will appear in the yearbook altered or at all. and while what happens does matter, at least jessica's classmates have given her something even better by which to remember her senior year, solidarity. for their willingness to speak up for what is right, jessica and her classmates are our foot soldiers of the week. that's our show for today. thanks for watching. tomorrow, i'm not going to be here. i'm delivering a commencement address at eckerd college where one of my other nieces, chrissy, is graduating.

but dorian warren, or as we like to call him, the prince of nerd land, is filling in. be here tomorrow morning, 10:00 a.m. coming up now, "weekends." sines, we have a personalized legal solution that's right for you. with easy step-by-step guidance, we're here to help you turn your dream into a reality. start your business today with legalzoom. little things, anyone can do. it steals your memories. your independence. insures support. a breakthrough. and sooner than you'd like... ...sooner than you think. ...you die from alzheimer's disease. ...we cure alzheimer's disease. every little click, call, or donation adds up to something big. alzheimer's association. the brains behind saving yours.

marge: you know, there's a more enjoyable way to get your fiber. try phillips fiber good gummies. they're delicious, and an excellent source of fiber to help support regularity. wife: mmmm husband: these are good! marge: the tasty side of fiber. from phillips. say "hi" rudy. [ barks ] [ chuckles ] i'd do anything to keep this guy happy and healthy.

that's why i'm so excited about these new milk-bone brushing chews. whoa, i'm not the only one. it's a brilliant new way to take care of his teeth. clinically proven as effective as brushing. ok, here you go. have you ever seen a dog brush his own teeth? the twist and nub design cleans all the way down to the gum line, even reaching the back teeth. they taste like a treat, but they clean like a toothbrush. nothing says you care like a milk-bone brushing chew. [ barks ] because you can't beat zero heartburn. woo hoo! [ male announcer ] prilosec otc is the number one doctor recommended frequent heartburn medicine for 8 straight years. one pill each morning. 24 hours. zero heartburn.

escape from the flames. dramatic video out of southern california's firefighters try to gain the upper hand. this as police make three arson arrests. with lethal injection under intense scrutiny, a republican lawmaker from utah is floating an old concept for capital punishments but do firing squads really have a place in today's society? brown versus board of education. have our nation's classrooms taken a step in the wrong direction? california dreaming. all eyes on as california chrome continues his run for the triple crown.