thanks for disrupting your afternoon. i'm karen finney. political opportunity may be opening. karl rove just can't help himself. still talking about brain injuries. >> being a front-runner is being on a perch that everyone else is going to try to knock you off of. >> people say she's it, it's a done deal. i'm not so certain. >> i actually doubt very much whether she actually will run. >> concussion is by definition a traumatic brain injury. >> i think karl rove's effort is pathetic. >> about as inappropriate a thing you can say. >> i'm not the person who said brain damage. >> karl rove is struggling to be

relevant. >> i'm not questioning her health. >> i think that health and age is fair game. >> it demonstrates how utterly afraid they are of her. >> my brain says she's running. my gut says, you know what? -- >> we don't know what kind of shape your brain is in. your forecast on this sunday afternoon. karl rove is still, and will likely continue, talking about hillary clinton's health. so how is that going to play out as she gears up for a book tour while the rest of the world continues to fixate on 2016? the topic was all over the sunday shows this morning and not many conservatives were stepping up to rove's defense, except rove himself, of course. now he says he wasn't even talking about clinton's health. this is all about whether or not she's going to run for president. just take a look at how his argument has changed over the course of the week. >> how did this comment come up suggesting that hillary clinton

may suffer from brain damage? where did that come from? >> no, no, no, wait a minute. no, no. i didn't say she had brain damage. she had a serious health episode. >> do you really have doubts about her physical capable? >> no, i don't. i'm not questioning her health. what i'm questioning is, is whether or not it is a done deal that she's running. >> okay, carl. if you say so. but in a move straight out of the roving playbook, he managed to backtrack from those earlier comments while small simultaneo continued to raise doubts about her health history. >> she's fallen and hit her head, suffered a concussion. we won't tell you what day or where. she goes in for a routine follow-up, they announce she has a blood clot.

>> okay. i'm joined here by my panel. of course, michael steele, i'll start with you, my friend. >> of course! >> they called rove bush's brain. what is going on with rove's brain here? >> i think a lot of folks are scratching their head and saying why are we having this conversation now? number one. why are we having this conversation about this, number one, whether there are so many other issues that a lot of other conservatives inside and outside the party have been talking about, whether it's benghazi or the recent developments in nigeria with the terrorist organizations there. so why this track to the health issue? it is a head-scratcher. i think rove sort of is planting a seed -- look, if karl rove thinks that hillary clinton is sitting in her living room

watching and turns to bill and goes, i'm sorry, i don't think i can do this now because karl rove is dogging my health records, this is just not smart politic in the long run. i think it puts the party in a very awkward position. you got the national chairman out here talking about hillary's health records when there is no evidence of anything in her health records that can raise a concern. can we just leave this until she releases them and let the public judge for themselves whether or not there is something there? >> james, that's actually right to the point. rove knows exactly what he's doing. what i just heard michael steele say can we just wait until she releases them. now it is, well, release your records. that's how we'll know everything is okay. >> rove is very, very effective and making sure he is a part of the news story, that he's a part of the news cycle. this is one of those sort of patented moves. unfortunately he doesn't have the gifts michael steele demonstrate here in terms of maneuvering around the story. the former first lady, former

senator, former secretary of state has health records. we don't have to wait for the release of records. is just a move by rove -- he isn't genius -- just a move by rove to put himself out there to conservative donors know he exists. >> does he have a point? is it a fair question on the campaign trail to ask about health or talk about age of a candidate. >> last week i moderated a panel with charlie cook. he raised health as an issue that she herself would have to consider when she began looking at how troubling this was. i agree with the others that i think rove knows exactly what he's doing. i was just north of tulsa in oklahoma over the weekend ai and i heard people in that coffee shop talk about this. he is issuing early talking points to red state agitators to give them something to draw at. the same thing he's also causing some ruckus within the democratic party. think if hillary clinton weren't to run, what chaos would there

be in the democratic party? there's already going to be chaos in the gop with a number of people running. he's trying to rile up democrats and get other people to sort of throw out an get other democrats to challenge hillary. >> here's one of the things i found interesting. when we talk about age, she would be the second-oldest after reagan. i think we have a chart here. if you think about it, life expectancy now is much longer back then, and by the way, women live longer than men! if we're going to talk about her age, tell the full story. >> the fact is this is not about her age or her health. this is about the fact that she's hillary clinton and she is like the big dog on the block and the republicans are like the mailmen who don't want to go by that house. they're just trying to take her down before she even gets in so they can get a head start. >> i think age is something that always comes up, male or female. with dole we saw it, with reagan

we saw. get age out there. women live longer and 70s is the new 60s. have you seen the commercials for retirement funds? 70 year-olds are sky diving and riding motorcycles? let's get it out of the way so when we do come to the presidential race whether it is hillary or not hillary, we don't get stuck in this argument that is so 1980. >> the gender issue is important in the sense that they'll try to paint her as a women as a way to appeal to some of those red state voters. talking about her health an age is one way to stigmatize her a little bit for those voters -- >> we have to make sure voters know women live longer than men. michael, i have a question for you about the current chairman of the rnc. you and i share some questions about him from time to time. he said today on the show -- i'll play it -- that he thinks she's not going to run. what is he talking about?

>> well, i don't know. i don't know -- you know, again -- >> okay. is that really what the chair should be saying? >> i just don't get where the party is putting its focus right now. it just makes no political sense, let alone practical sense for laying down markers for a future presidential candidate. certainly had has no bearing on what will happen this november. so i don't know exactly what the talking point thought is to sit there in may of 2014 and say that if she has another month like the last month she's not going to run for president. really? >> in the last mother her daughter told her she was pregnant. that's pretty great news. >> do we realize what this woman has been through politically? come on. we have to be a little more realistic as party. be a little more practical as a party. yes, i think it's dead-right, she is the big dog that the republican mailmen do not want

to tangle with. >> michael, you may have to help them figure this one out. >> you know, i try. you know what happened when i tried. >> that's true. steve, the other thing that was interesting this morning that happened on the sunday shows, there was a little bit after back-and-forth where the swift boating of john kerry was mentioned. rove seemed to say that he thought that was perfectly appropriate in a way that he sort of, yes, admitted, yeah, i did that, yeah, i'm doing this and i know exactly what i'm doing. >> karl rove is capable of carrying ocarry ing all sorts of self-serving contradictions around. he's laying the groundwork for demeaning hillary clinton very, very early. that's what he's up to. so, yeah, it is okay if they do it in one case but not okay if the dems do it to others. >> i like to remind people about swift boating since that was such a travesty. this smart for hillary or does this benefit had her to get this

out now? i sort of think it could play both ways. yes, it -- we are talking about it now but that doesn't mean we'll be talking about it in it 2016. >> i'm all about owning the message. that's something democrats have had problem with compared to republicans. karl rove is very good at framing. instead of calling it the death tax, the inheritance tax. they play with these words. get in front of it. yes, i am going to be 69 years old and that's great. look at all these great things i am doing. look how active i am, look at my lifestyle. own it because if not, other folks will define it for you. >> michael, did you want to weigh in? >> no. that's exactly right. it is about definition. i think the clintons need to go out and begin to define if hillary is going to make this type of a push to define her legacy not only as first lady and secretary of state but what type of opportunities she will create for the country. and her age really won't and factor, i don't think.

her health, i go back to it, when we releases the documents, we'll know what we know. but let's be clear -- she's going to release the documents. this is not something she's going to run for president and we are he not going to know what's in her health records. she did it as secretary of state. she did it as first lady. we're going to get those documents. i'm not saying this is a political ploy or trying to sidebar. that's the reality. my point is why are we talking about it two years out when she won't release these documents until at least late 2015, early 2016. >> the troubling thing about it, the way rove talks about it, if she releases, they are making it a trustworthiness issue. it is starting to feel a bit like the birtherism. >> what rove is really great at is taking a strength and making a weakness. he's done that time and time again. i think the clintons and hillary clinton's camp in particular have to be measured about the timing within which they

actually say they are going to enter into the fray. this is why you have reince priebus saying she's not going to run so someone from her camp will say yes, she is. but the clintons are very smart, very savvy when if comes to politics. >> i would say don't hold your breath. michael and the panel will be sticking around. up next, some tea party members now support immigration reform. are we looking at a window of opportunity? [ male announcer ] ortho crime files. reckless seeding... ...failure to disappear. a backyard invasion. homeowner takes matters into his own hands. ♪ ortho weed b gon max. with the one-touch, continuous spray wand... kills weeds without harming innocent lawns. guaranteed. weeds killed. lawn restored. justice served. weed b gon max with the one-touch wand. get order. get ortho®.

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i wanted to take a look at this new poll conducted by a number of conservative groups that includes a tea party express. you are reading that correctly. you are hearing me correctly. more than 7 in 10 republican

voters want congress to act on immigration reform this year. as do 69% of voters who strongly identify as tea partiers. echoing that sentiment wednesday, sal russo, the co-founder of the tea party express wrote, "conservatives should be at the forefront of reform so the law reflects the just interests of the united states, not the misty eyed ideals of some of the liberal do-gooder reformers. he joins jeb bush who also comes out in legal status for undocumented immigrants in recent days. president and ceo of the u.s. chamber of commerce also weighed in on monday saying this. >> if the republicans don't do it, they shouldn't bother to run a candidate in 2016. >> so that begs the question, why is speaker boehner continuing to drag his feet? on thursday obama senior advisor valerie jarrett reportedly said, i think we have a window this summer between now an august to get something done. we have a commitment from speaker boehner who's very

frustrated with this caucus. but after boehner spokesman denied any such promise, she later later clarified saying boehner has made a commitment to trying to get something done. maybe the speaker should get on board with the rest of the party, the tea party, the chamber and growing list of conservatives and act now on immigration. michael and my panel are back with me and i'm going to start with you, vickie. it strikes me -- those poll numbers are pretty dramatic. >> what took them so long to get around to this? i feel good about the mood changing in the nation. but i'm going to be a debbie downer here. i really don't think anything is going to happen. the issue here is a comprehensive immigration reform has so many pieces to it. even though this piecemeal approach sounds appealing, if you take one piece, border enforcement piece, the republicans will support it but democrats will go against it. if you try to go with the pathway to citizenship, democrats will push it and

republicans will go against it. that's why you need the whole kit and caboodle. i don't think that in flee months we're going to see it happen. >> when you have the head of the chamber of commercial, usually a very big supporter of republican candidates, saying if you don't get it done this year, don't even think about getting money from us in 2016, that's a big warning. >> yeah, it is a big warning but it is largely hollow at this point because this is very -- vickie is right, nothing to do with 2014 politics. this is all about the opportunity to sort of lay some patchworks down for 2015, late 2015, early 2016. the chamber also has an interest here on immigration with respect to employees, of employers and the interest of their employers who are part of the chamber. that's all sort of the backdrop here. if there's any idea that we're going to have a prehencomprehen bill done by the november elections, it will not happen. this is where boehner is coming

from. the rhetoric out of the white house is sort of to keep the flames burning over this issue. but in large measure the congress doesn't have the inclination to do it and i think the top-line point remains that there is a clear difference between the approaches to solving the immigration question. until you get some ground on that, i don't see much happening. >> from a political perspective, when you have so many voices now publicly saying -- i take your point, what they're really saying, there are some real differences. misty-eyed liberals. there are some real differences. but the general conversation is we should get this done. then boehner sort of making fun of his party, then having to take that back. feels like this is more on boehner than anybody else. >> it's always been on boehner. there's been nothing to change this calculus, even this vote or this primary challenge. doesn't change the calculus that boehner is not demonstrating the kind of leadership or control over his caucus that's immune to the leadership of the tea party thinking that this is still a

defining challenge for them and that they are not going to cede on immigration reform. i know this poll. americans for tax reform have really been out there but there are a lot of factions in the tea party. too many of the rank and file are not on board with this. i had haley barbour, grover norquist, calling me to appear on a panel later this week on immigration reform because they believe the republicans are going over a cliff and they want to bring it around. it is not just boehner. there are many other leader in the gop that think this is crazy but they're not strong enough even in the aggregate to deal with the tea party control over this issue. >> i just find that so shocking because who isn't strong enough? who are these people? you have -- to steve's point, you are hearing republicans talk about it as a pro-growth strategy. right? that seems to be the new spin. maybe that's the way they are trying to appeal of the tea partiers. what is it now, ten people that's holding this up?

what's going on? >> i think the longer this goes on, the harder it will get for republicans and they dig themselves deeper. this is beginning to kree meant their image as anti-latino, anti-immigrant. the longer they wait an the harder ss going to become. 016 is around the corner. we saw in 2012 a record number 11 million latinos turned out for the election. 2016 is going to be that on steroids especially if we don't have an immigration reform bill passed. >> on that point, does your party really want to be dealing with this as a question in 2016 for your presidential candidates? >> you're going to be dealing with it regardless, depending on the bill you put out. if you stick to the clock and do it this year, then if it is not right you'll have a very disenchanted base that's going to be problematic for a presidential candidate who's going to have to appeal to that hard, conservative wing of the party with the primary process with other conservatives on the stage. party is in one sense i think

playing this politically smart from the standpoint this is a fight we can have later, we do not need to get into it this year to lay down markers in this cycle where we have the upper hand going into the fall elections. i think they're looking at 2015 as a neutral start. you'll see more conversation about immigration in 2015. those very voices, barbara and others, will be central players on that and boehner will come around if he's still speaker. >> james, talk about president obama. he said in the beginning of the year he was going to try to take a step back, create the space for this to happen and he's been moving fairly slowly on some of these executive actions. but it's felt like he has not agreed to do the big thing he agreed to do, but he's doing little things with the hope that gives boehner an opportunity to get something done. >> yeah, that's not working out so well, so far. first of all, since when has this republican house responded to national polls? right? look at renewable energy. gun control. health care. they don't respond to national

polls so i don't think we should think they will respond to this poll here. republicans are already winning on this. as you see from the rhetoric they are talking about legal status. that's not citizenship. that's not the right to vote. right? we want a pathway to citizenship. ultimately to me they're already winning the rhetorical battle. president's strategy in my opinion isn't working out so well. >> vickie, final question to you. should the president just do all the executive actions he can do and just put it on the republicans that we could do comprehensive if they would come to the table? >> i think something needs to be done, at least as a stop gap measure until we get to 2015 and 016. i'm with michael on this, i don't believe that something is going to happen when we get closer to the 2016 presidential election. there's too much on the line for the gop. but the main thing that wants to happen if the democrats want to keep love of the latinos, stop the deportations, stop the detentions because this is starting to anger latinos. deporter in chief.

my understanding is within the per view of an executive order. it would be enough for latinos to carry into the 2015, 2016. >> see here on "disrupt," we have republicans and democrats agree on a few things! my thanks to michael steele and the rest of the panel stays with me. still ahead, what is it about president obama that invites vitriol and disrespect from his critics? the racist rant that is rocking a new hampshire town.

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reports out of places like phoenix and ft. collins and north carolina and we're going to get to the bottom of those things, fix them and ensure that they don't happen again. in pursuit of all things awesome, amazing,

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good is choosing not to overshoot the moon, but to land right on it and do some experiments. ♪ so start your day off good with a coffee that's good cup after cup. maxwell house. ♪ good to the last drop 40 people died while waiting for care and they were advertising waiting times of 30 to 55 days when in fact they were more like six to seven months. >> that was dr. sam foote, one of the men at center of the growing scandal surrounding the veterans administration hospitals. in an interview this morning on fox nud sunday he described what he says is a huge deception that's taking place in the health care branch of the va. foote who spent decades employed at the phoenix va medical center recently plu the whistble blew n

tricks hospital staff used to hide delays in patient care. he even alleged as many as 40 veterans may have died while awaiting medical care into the facility. the inspector general testified this week that they can't yet confirm those deaths were a result of being put on the waiting list but still there is a deplorable accusation of fraud and mismanagement. as ryan galucci reiterated of the vfw -- >> the vfw and our partner organizations have been screaming about this for years, about wait times. ig investigations, accountability reports. we hope the attention that's come the last couple of weeks will finally inspire significant change. >> galucci is right. this is not an is ligolated incident. the undersecretary for health at the va described gaming strategies being employed at the va medical centers. more than three years later the u.s. office of special council sent a letter to president obama detailing more abuses at va

health facilities. just this morning, the dayton daily news reported that since 2001, the va's database shows 167 paid claims with the words "delay in treatment" used. the va paid a total of $36.4 million to settle those claims, "either voluntarily or as part of court action." this is a scandal years in the making and our panel is back with me to discuss it and we are joined by medal of honor recipient and military analyst colonel jack jacobs. thanks, everybody. colonel jack, i'll start with you. this is not new. we've known that there was a problem for quite some time. >> yeah. it's been going on for a long time. i think if you go back to the beginning of the va you'll find the same problem. the fact is that the veterans administration before, and now the department of veterans affairs is singularly ill-equipped to deliver what we need to our veterans and that is timely and first-rate medical

care in some places medical care is excellent, but it is never timely. you shouldn't have to get an appointment to get an appointment an all the rest of that stuff. if i needed medical care as a veteran, i would have to sign up and i'd have to go see somebody to see somebody and i may never get to see anybody after a while. the waiting list now is actually down to something like under 200 days. when i was in the army, after i was retired he was under the tricare system which meant that if i needed to go to a doctor, i called up a doctor. same as with medicare. call up the doctor. went to see the doctor. said doctor i hurts when it does this. he says don't do that. that will be $100. he sends a bill to the government. government sends him whatever they've agreed to pay him. that's the way the system ought to work.

it should not be for veterans than it is for the average person. >> the thing also that's come to light is that we're not just talking about phoenix. i think we have a map here that shows there are various facilities where there were complaints that's just in 2014. the concern i have when you sort of read through the documents in terms of the way they have these waiting lists and sort of shuffling paper around is, that's all of what we know of. there may be a lot more that we just don't even know about. >> and that we'll see an increase because we still have troops in the middle east that are going to be coming home, that will have immediate physical needs and later on, god forb forbid, they'll have mental needs that need to be tended to. this will only get worse. however, in solving this problem we need to be conscious about going for someone's scalp. say let's go for shinseki's scalp. no. let's diagnose the problem here. because -- i think we've talk about this before. it is actually the bureaucracy may be the main culprit here. i think rather than just wanting political capital, let's figure out how we can stem the tide of

future problems. >> to that point. there's been sort of a mixed reaction in terms of calling for shinseki's head and others saying let's wait and see how this thing plays out. the thing that strikes me though, everyone speaks of very -- they laud him and appropriately so. he is a hero. he served this country. but it strikes me that that really doesn't matter, frankly, in regard to fixing the bureaucracy. >> that's right. if this were the bush administration, if this were the republican administration, i think many of our friends would be saying that person has to go, they ran a system, it didn't work, accountability rests with that person there. i know rick shinseki and i have tremendous respect for the role he's played over a great number of platforms. that doesn't mean that he managed this situation competently. he's been there for so many years. for him not to have had some sort of knowledge about a scale of problems so large means there's something wrong. in my mind, either the resources aren't there and he was playing

the loyal soldier and didn't want to tell the administration they were going to have to vastly expand resources or create accountability system to shake up something when the white house didn't want it shaken up, i don't know what the chemistry was but rick shinseki did not wave a red flag publicly and say we have a massive problem. that means i think you need to diagnose and you won't have america believing it is fixed unless you get the scalp. with all due respect to my friend rick shinseki, i think he needs to resign. >> the thing is, president obama has actually increased resources for the va. shinseki has actually expanded the veterans who are eligible for care. but i think we've got a graphic here that shows the problem, it doesn't seem to be, as you said, jack, putting more resources in. it is sort of where those resources are going. if you look at between the number of -- we have 50% rise in primary care visits but 9% rise in the number of primary care doctors. >> i'm not sure that we need a diagnosis for the administration to understand what the problem

is. it seems pretty clear what the problem is. i think under shinseki it seems to be that they've applied pressure because people were cooking the books but not in getting him to be accountable for what they are saying. for my entire adult here the reality is we've been on a permanent war footing. that's flooded the system. you combine that with baby boomer age veterans coming of age and having different ailments, the system is stressed in a lot of different ways. first we have to stop going to war. >> that would be good. >> number two, we may need some private/public partnerships to handle this overhaul or to handle the transition that the colonel is talking about here. if we want to transition into a medicare system, we would still need private doctors, just to step in to help with the backlog. if people are dying waiting, we need some urgent solutions. >> part of this, as jack said in a really great op-ed today at msnbc, it is a commitment to

those suffering from agent orange, vietnam, and ptsd. how many incidents have we seen from spousal abuse, spousal killings, suicide, attached to pst, untreated pst possibilities. we've have a lot of foreshocks of this in the system did shall. >> imagine if we had the same kind of robust resources and energy that we put into defense. just a fraction of that were put into veterans affairs or into this particular problem. >> i believe strongly that it doesn't matter who is running the department of veterans affairs, whether he's the best administrator in the world or just a junkyard dog, or anybody in between, and it also doesn't matter how much money you throw at it. you can throw trillions of dollars at this system and it ain't going to work because it's not structured to work. it's a bureaucracy. bureaucracies do routine things in a routine way and that's all. >> i want to drill down on that. my father is a veteran. he loves his va doctor. what you hear, when you can get to care, it is good care.

it's getting there is sometimes the challenge. but drill down on -- so what would need to change? is it just that the system is trying to add on itself and just kind of groan or it is not prepared to handle the nature of the injuries we are now seeing? never was prepared to handle longevity of veterans? >> yes, yes, yes. >> okay. >> all of that. >> my question to jack is, aren't the injuries and problems that veterans administration is supposed to handle supposed to be unique to a certain class of people? and that's why your proposal of absorbing this throughout broader medical system doesn't really fit. >> well, we think that it's unique, but it is not unique. people who study pts, for example, will tell you that you don't have to have drive down an unsecured road and get your bell rung from an improvised explosive device to have pts. indeed there are people who -- civilians everywhere who have pts just because of bad

experiences can give you pts. i think the range of human experience that needs to be treated is not exclusive to veterans. veterans go all the time to doctors to get lots of things taken care of, which i mean i was a vet. i had a penetrating head wound. gi to a civilian doctor. i'm on medicare now. and the same set-up in medicare exists as existed in tricare as existed when i was in the army. go to a doctor around the doctor takes care of it. the end. you don't need this incredibly expensive inertia-ridden bureaucracy as a parallel environment completely different useless universe for veterans to go to get medical care. we will need -- if you're going to do this, you're going to have to have a private/public partnership, which after all, isn't that what medicare is? >> exactly. i want to just close on, james,

this is a real scandal. this has the potential to be -- benghazi, all of that -- no. this is very serious. you heard shinseki, he's mad as hell and mcdonough said this morning, the white house chief of staff, that the president is mad as hell. but it strikes me that people want to see some heads getting busted on something like there. i don't mean calling for people's scalps. i don't think just sending rob neighbors over to the va says we take this seriously. >> people need to look in the mirror when you want to see heads roll. this is a national problem with us being disconnected from veterans, disconnected to american fp and american wars, insensitive and desensitized to the plight and challenges that our veterans face. look at their suicide rates and em. employment rates. look at the with a i we treat people who serve in this country. you can put anybody at the head of the system. it is not necessarily going to make the system work. we have to change it and make

adjustments. but people have to look at themselves when we think of the plight of veterans. >> i think this is one where the president needs to be more personally involved because it is a huge scandal and it is only growing. as we said, we only know what we know. there is a lot we don't even know. thank you, jernl jacolonel jacobs. the rest of the panel is sticking around. another week, another racist exposed. this time, a new hampshire police commissioner who refused to apologize for calling president obama the "n" word. unlimited cash back.

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this week in racist behavior, calls are mounting for the resignation of the new hampshire police commissioner who not only admits to calling president obama the "n" word but also double-downed on the slur when he was confronted about it. wolfeboro is a predominantly white town. dozens step up to the microphone to tell him personally how they felt. there it is not simply theicky nature of what he's saying that constitutes the greater problem, it is that later comment of mr. obama meeting his imagined criteria for the use of the word [ bleep ]. let's listen to his second, more pro nisht comments again. i believe i did use the "n" word in reference to the current occupant of the white house, for this i do not apologize.

he meets and exceeds my criteria for such. i'd like to ask you, mr. copeland, what do you mean by this? first thing -- >> copeland had no response. as you see here, he just sat there, arms folded, silent for the entire meeting. it wasn't until residents stopped him in the parking lot he actually put this had body language into words. >> i admitted what i did. i made no bones about it. >> it was back in march when the woman you see here overheard copeland's remarks in a restaurant and reported it. >> mr. copeland did not use the term [ bleep ]. mr. copeland used the term f'n [ bleep ]. >> so the panel is back with me. one of the things i found so interesting about this story is i love the way that the community rose up very quickly and said, this is wrong. but one of the things that strikes me is, he's an elected -- he's elected so they

really have no way to get rid of him. >> i think that this story is still unfolding and there's going to be i'm sure mounting pressure for him to resign. we'll have to see what ends up happening in terms of him and his position. one of the things that's particularly troubling about this situation is the fact that he's a police commissioner. >> absolutely. >> the person who hires police officers, sets police policy. when you think about the historic around current day challenges, issues that we face between law enforcement and communities of color, whether you are talking about racial profiling, racial disparities in the criminal justice system, this is very, very troubling. >> like donald sterling, steve's there is outrage because he is in a position of authority. he has the right to hire, fire, make salary decisions. there are about 6,300 residents in the the town and 20 of whom are african-american. >> and there are 12 other law enforcement officials in that town and all of them are white. there aren't any hispanic or asian or other dimensions. you see a very palpable racism

that still beats in this country. we've seen it all along. we've seen it during president obama's race. we heard it when john mccain was telling his aud yeps that he was worried about this tilt toward violence, he was worried about some of the things he heard particularly when you see sarah palin walk in the room and this invitation by certain wings of the gop to this sort of violent, potentially violent and also bigoted behavior and a rise of a pugnacious nationalism that's uninformed and gross. that still exists throughout united states, even in new hampshire. >> we actually have a little bit of sound to remember some of the greatest hits. >> the reforms i am proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally. >> you lie! >> they're finally hearing. he's an angry black guy. do i believe that about the president. i do believe he's angry. i think his wife is angry. >> this guy is not who he says

he is. none of his bills, none of his proposals are about what he says they're about. the health care bill is represent rati. >> i think last night the president revealed his incompetence, how lazy and detached he is. >> i want to give you a chance to maybe take it back. do you really mean to call the president of the united states lazy? >> yes. >> james, what is it about this president that people think that kind of behavior is okay? >> he's black. right? i mean that's the long and the short of it. i feel like the face of racism is getting older. i think that's something to look at here. the people that we've seen in the media, if you thing of bundy and sterling and this guy in new hampshire, essentially these are older folk. but that shouldn't fool us into thinking that there aren't still very real sort of aspects of racism, structural aspects of racism, institutional instances and aspects of racism that still

exist in society. the problem for me, we can sometimes very easily focus on these nitwits, they're very easy to cover in the media, but it is so much more difficult to follow and cover the persistence of racism in public education, in the criminal justice system, hiring and firing, lending practices, housing discrimination. that's where the battle front is for racism in this country. >> you have attorney general eric holder yesterday speak at morgan state. he talked about how we have these blips where we all kind of pay attention but it is the much more subtle forms of racism we need to be much more vigilant about. >> that's really where we need to focus our attention. i think it is great in 2014 we can all agree people shouldn't be talking about "the negro" and using the "n" word. i'm so glad that you mentioned in particular around education. we celebrated the 60th

anniversary of brown v. board of education just yesterday. where is the outrage around the fact that our public schools are as segregated as they were in the 1960s? that's where i think we need to be able to harness energy and focus our attention so that we can actually solve the present day manifestations of racial bias in our country. >> final point, it strikes me that in order to do that we have to be willing to -- i think the first lady talked about this -- talk about the existence of this type of racism and acknowledge that it is real. instead of being called race-baiters which the right wing likes to do. we are talking about a very serious, very real issue there. >> we are celebrating the 50th anniversary of the civil rights act and it is a time of celebration. we've come an incredibly long way but i think some folks say we check the transformative box. what we need to do is take this as a moment of reflection of what we need to do going forward. that impolice sl implicit racis

i.d. laws, this is civil rights 2.0. >> i want to thank my panel this afternoon, and that will do it for me. thank you for joining us. i'll see you back here next weekend at 4:00 p.m. eastern. in the nation, it's not always pretty. but add brand new belongings from nationwide insurance... ...and we'll replace destroyed or stolen items with brand-new versions. we take care of the heat, so you don't get burned. just another way we put members first, because we don't have shareholders. join the nation. ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ ugh. heartburn. did someone say burn? try alka seltzer reliefchews. they work just as fast and taste better than tums smoothies assorted fruit. mmm. amazing. yeah, i get that a lot. alka seltzer heartburn reliefchews. enjoy the relief. feeding your lawn need not be so difficult neighbors.

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all the world may be a stage but there's no telling when life will radically depart from the script. in illinois, a man is trampled by a panicked horse while another in north carolina struggles to escape from a deadly inferno. then, a 4th of july celebration goes explosively off course. while taking off in a jet turns into a fight between life and death. and falling from 9,000 feet, two skydivers free themselves before it's too late. >> you have to do something or your you're going to die. >> sometimes the best-laid plans