coming out and saying i'm dealing with this, there's not even a hint of him saying i'm going to therefore execute an act. sterling said i don't want blacks in the building. it's the culture. he embraced it. he accepted it. there was no introspection there. there's no punishment that i think is required for somebody dealing with some of their own needs to grow. thanks fsh watching. have a great holiday weekend. "hardball" starts right now. mississippi burning. let's play "hardball." good evening. politics does not get any nastier than this. less than two weeks before the republican primary in

mississippi, a gruing scandal is shaking up the race for the senate there. it involves an establishment republican, his bed-ridden wife and tea party activists supporting his opponent who allegedly tried to exploit that for political gain. senator thad cochran was first elected in 1978. he's battling chris mcdaniel for what many in the tea party see as a chance to oust a moderate incumbent. last friday, a pro mcdaniel blogger was i a rested for sneaking into the nursing home where cochran's life lives and taking a photo of her. mcdaniel denied involvement in the incident. there's little evidence to suggest a relationship. yesterday, three more men, all support eers of mcdaniel were charged as co-conspirators. one of the men, mark mayfield, is the leader of the madison country republican tea party and the vice chairman of the mississippi tea party, which endorsed mcdaniel.

again, it's important to note that mcdaniel has not been tied to the incident, but his reaction has raised some eyebrows. when a reporter for the hill newspaper caught up with mcdaniel after the morning after the initial arrest, he denied knowing about it. reporter december scribed him as visibly surprised and quoted him as saying i don't guess i've been awake long enough to see what's happened. except for the fact that he'd already been informed about it. his campaign manager had already called cochran's campaign to express sympathy and suggested the two candidates should talk. here's how he explains what his campaign manager told him that morning. >> basically she said some things about ms. cochran and i said stop right there. i said you know our campaign's position in regards -- >> but she didn't tell you there was an arrest? >> paul, let me finish, okay? i can explain that. i said our position on is this has always been the same. let's just back up and i can

tell you what's going on here. please give me the courtesy and i can tell you. >> i can't imagine your campaign not telling you. >> i was asleep. she called me and -- >> she called you and told you that there was a problem and what did she say? >> i can tell you what she said. she said chris, we have an issue involving ms. cochran. i said let me do this, let me take a shower and you can fully brief me when i get to hernando. >> you got all the way there, she never called you and you never called her back? >> paul, no. we're busy. >> the washington bureau chief for mother jones and robert costa is a political reporter for "the washington post." you've been writing about this, covering this, reporting it. look, i mean, we talk about campaign dirty tricks. everybody thinks back to watergate. the number one question i always had is why? i mean, george mcgovern was going to be the nominee.

everyone knew nixon was going to win big and they still did the burglary. just looking for the basic motive. we can get to the question of connections to the mcdaniel world. why would these guys have wanted to go into the nursing home and take a picture. what's the political motive for doing that? >> it's a complicated question. so far four tea party activists have been charged with conspiracy down in mississippi. the reason they went into the nursing home, the reason they allegedly conspired to do this is complicated, because it goes back to cochran not only being a long standing member of the senate, but his wife has been in hospice care for over a decade and i think they were looking to exploit that, the fact that he lives in a basement apartment of his executive assistant in washington, d.c. and they're interested in exposing more of cochran's personal life. >> they're trying to say he's being unfaithful to his bedridden wife with his assistant? >> it's a fever swamp right now online and mississippi. it's almost out of a john gri s

grisham novel. what is certain is these activists who were arrested were looking for something in cochran's personal life related to his wife and that's why they tried to float this picture online. >> the morning after clayton kelly was arrested, the mcdaniel's campaign manager left a voice mail message on the counterpart of the cochran campaign. it was nearly two hours before it was learned the arrest was tied to the photographing of cochran's wife. listen to what she says. >> i've been upmost of the night. got some information about an arrest that occurred. and kurt, i need chris to speak with senator cochran. we don't knee this guy. we have no idea who he is. he's been arrested trying to do one of the most despeckle things i have ever heard of.

but i have just demanded that our staff not get involved in aspects of senator cochran's personal life. this is a campaign about political issues. chris is very upset about it. and we felt he needed to have a personal phone call certainly with you. but he really wanted to have one with senator cochran if you think that could be at all possible. >> so now let's go through the time line of how things unfolded that morning. according to a campaign statement about 7:30 a.m., mcdaniel was, quote, notified only briefly of the incident. about 15 minutes later, at 7:45, campaign manager sent that voice mail to the cochran camp. a little before 9:30 was when news fist broke there was connection to the cochrans. the nursing home had already been named. less than an hour later, mcdaniel told a reporter that he hadn't heard of the arrest. this was just before 11:00 the campaign released an official statement on the incident. so david, we have that, the voice mail there from the campaign manager. whef the grilling that mcdaniel was subjected to on the radio

there. it looks to me, again, we say, nobody has been able to establish any kind of a direct connection or any kind of a role here. but when you listen to that interview, that's a guy who seems really defensive there. does the story he's telling make sense to you? >> it doesn't add up, steve. i mean, if -- you know, assuming the campaign manager is not lying in that private phone call to the cochran campaign, she's indicating that chris mcdaniels is very upset about this. how can he be upset about it unless he knew about it? and so obviously, they thought that there was -- not only that he was upset, obviously they felt they had some vulnerability here, and he wanted to sort of get in there right away and prevent perhaps theed that cochran campaign from exploiting this. so you would have to know some of the facts. you would have to suspect if you didn't know more, this could somehow come back to haunt you

or taint you. all that had to be known for that phone conversation, that phone message to occur at that time. now why chris mcdaniel later on that same morning is denying knowing anything and he was going to take a shower first. someone calls you and says there's a story breaking about your opponent's wife. it's kind of weird and sleazy and you say i'm going to take a shower first and we'll talk about this later. that defies reality. no candidate in the land wouldn't say what's going on here and does it affect us? >> you write the tea party's last best hope to oust a lawmaker in his primary season is in mississippi. quote, this is it. for all the early hype about the mcconnell primary challenge, the cochran race has always been the best opportunity for the libertarian/tea party folks. i mean, look, polling has been reliable polls are few and far between in mississippi. that's a tough place to poll sort of historically. so we have one set of numbers

out this week that are very friendly to mcdaniel. showing for whatever that's worth. but tell us a little bit about this race before all this hit in terms of how vulnerable was that cochr cochran? and what has this done for the race already? >> when i was touching base with my mississippi sources, they thought mcdaniel was gaining steam. it could be a low turnout election in mississippi. cochran brings a lot of pork back to the state, that wouldn't play well with the tea party. and mcdaniel, for all his trouble, he's a established candidate. this is not christine o'donnell or sharon engle. he is a state senator, has some polish. they thought he was nipping at the heels of cochran. but this incident has thrown the whole race into a mess. it's in a tizzy. i think right now, cochran is quite strong. there's a lot of sympathy out there on the ground for him in mississippi. but don't count out mcdaniel yet. he still isn't tied to this in

any official way. only tea party activists on the periphery who are supporters of him. he could still make a charge but it's going to be a difficult one. the tea party right now, the conservative movement is pouring money into this race. club for growth is going in six-figure buys. citizens united and other groups. that's something that is going to be a factor. >> just to follow up on that, what does this race mean to them? we talk about, you know, these are tea party activists who are, at least, in the case of up with of these guys who's arrested, the vice chair of the state of the mississippi tea party. it means a lot to them personally. this race is very significant to the national tea party movement. we could talk about how the establishment candidates have moved towards the tea party. but the tea party still has to show they can win a race. >> brannon in north carolina, he can't beat thom tilli is. so the tea party thinks lamar alexander in tennessee, he doesn't have a big challenger against him.

neither does lindsey graham in south carolina. so if graham and mcconnell are safe, this is the race then. this is the place that's deeply -- in the deep south, it's a red state. this is the opportunity, this is the battleground. that's why all the money is coming in now. >> yeah. it was the american conservative union did its ratings a few months ago. and thad cochran's numbers stand out. he's got a 63. all ore republicans are in the low 90s or something. ten days out, we'll see what happens. thank you. coming up, race and politics. democrat jay rockefeller says gop opposition to obamacare exists because president obama is, quote, the wrong color. he's hardly the first to suggest that. does he have a point or are republicans right to cry foul? also, me details emerging in the bridgegate scandal. there might be a race to say who

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a dry mouth isn't. that corporate trial by fire when every slacker gets his due. and yet, there's someone around the office who hasn't had a performance review in a while. someone whose poor performance is slowing down the entire organization. i'm looking at you phone company dsl. check your speed. see how fast your internet can be. switch now and add voice and tv for $34.90. comcast business built for business. chris matthews has spent a lot of time discussing weather and how much race has to do with

race has to do with the republicans' unyielding opposition to almost anything obama does. jay rockefeller made it clear where he stands. rockefeller who may feel unburdened because he's retiring at the end of the year said that some opposition to president obama's affordable care act stems from obama being, quote, the wrong color. here's senator rockefeller. >> i think it's very important to take a long view at what's gong on here. i'll be able to dig up the e-mails that make the affordable care act that doesn't look good. from people who have made up their mind that they don't want it to look because they don't like the president. maybe he's the wrong color, something of that sort. i've seen a lot of that and i know a lot of that to be true. it's not something you're supposed to talk about in public, but i'm talking about it in public because i think it's very true.

>> when it was the republican's turn to speak, he made his displeasure known. >> it was regrettable and offensive. seems i'm the only one here talking to opposition that you would play the race card. that you would say opposition to obama care must stream from some inert racism. i didn't object to this because of the race of the president. i object to this because this is an assault on our freedom. please, don't assume, don't make implications of what i'm thinking and what i would really support. you have no idea. >> i actually do and god help you. >> senator, god help you from implying i'm a racist. >> i did not imply that you're a ris i raisist. >> let's play back the tape. >> we could do that but we're

not going to. y lost your temper. >> i was called a raisist. >> not called a racist. >> although the senator didn't use the word race or color, rockefeller did not back down from his core assertion. he said, quote, people oppose things for a variety of reason ps. that's all you're going to get from me. it's a part of life. it's a part of american life and world life. it's just a part of why they oppose absolutely everything that this president does. basically for political reasons they do. but at some point, you can't exclude other factors. as they say, everything is on the table. joining me now, we have you gene robinson, joe watkins, who is a former aide to the first president. i want to talk about this incident, this episode. but i think this is part of a much bigger conversation about the obama year, the last six years of american political life. but i know both of you have watched that clip and had a different reaction to it.

gene, i'll start with you. just watching that, what is your reaction from what you heard from senator rockefeller and senator johnson. >> i think what senator rockefeller said is true, number one. and number two, what i heard senator johnson do was the two things that effectively shut down any discussion of race. you called me a racist, you played the race card. senator rockefeller didn't call him a racist. he said he thinks race is a factor in the opposition to anything the president wants to do including the affordable care act. i think that's true and it's certainly something that should be up for discussion. but it gets shut down if it becomes about something that rockefeller didn't do which is you called me a racist. he didn't do that. >> how about you? what did you see? >> well, i thought that we probably would all be better off if it wasn't implied by any

senator that another senator was racist, because they didn't support a particular piece of legislation. you know, clearly, we have had instances of racism in our country, even in the recent weeks. and certainly in the senate, there have been folks who have had ugly episodes with race. and senator rockefeller, i'm sure, has seen it up close because his former colleague, the former democratic senator from west virginia, now deceased, the senate majority leader, robert bird was a past member of the kkk. so i know that he may have known firsthand that there were people in the senate who might use race as a reason to not support particular legislation. but not in this case. i think in this case, the affordable care act opposition that senator johnson holds is that he just wants americans who like their health care to be able to keep their health care. that doesn't mean we ought not to have a discussion about race

in the country or that there aren't people who use race as a reason to not support our president. but that being said, i don't think that was the case in this instance. >> well, gene, i want to pick up what you were saying a minute ago. it seems when we start to have this conversation, exactly what you were describing happens. anybody who feels they're being put on the defensive by the discussion immediately resoils. fair or not, that's what happened with ron johnson. he's the only one in the room from the republican party, apparently. but i wober how you think about this in terms of -- so there's legitimate political opposition on the one hand where somebody might actually think hey, philosophically, i don't like the idea of the health care law enforcement, the stimulus, whatever it was. and then there's something more driven, more fuelled. it's more rooted in race. i wonder how you draw that line when everybody is going to have the same reaction to the charge. because i can think back to the clinton years. bill clinton should bring a bodyguard to north carolina, he might get killed if he came down

here. the clintons may have something to do with vince foster getting killed. i remember overheat ed rhetoric pointed to clinton. >> you can't draw a sharp line. i don't think you can. i was thinking today back to the tea party demonstration at the capitol as congress was passing the affordable care act four years ago. and i remember being there. i remember seeing members of the congressional black caucus hissed at. and in one instance spat at by demonstrators. i remember seeing very crude placards and signs about president obama. and this sort of take our country back meme that seemed to have certainly a racial dimension. now, does that mean that everybody in that crowd was rashlly mo l

racially motivated? no. but it seemed obvious to me, it was fuelling that crowd. and i think it has fuelled in many ways some of the opposition to obama, which, of course, is also based in political and policy differences. >> and joe, here's what i kind of want to ask you about because, maybe i was naive at the start of the obama presidency. i'll cop to that because now, i'll look back to it. i remember in the first two years i would say of the obama presidency hearing prominent figures on the right. i'm talking about rush limbaugh saying things that i did not think you should say sort of in polite company. you could get away with sort of say on the airwaves. limbaugh showing, there's a story about a white teenager who had been beaten up by a black teenagener a bus. this is obama's america. i remember my initial reaction is i can't believe he can say that with 10 million to 15

million listeners without having a boycott or something. has it surprised you to the degree that pro-. innocent people on right have relied and used race as part of their attack on president obama? >> i'm sorry for those people who side with republicans who have used race in any kind of a way that is negative and divisive, because we're trying to head to a country that's truly color blind. we don't see people and judge them based on the color of their skin, but rather on the content of their character. and the hope is that we end up having more love in our hearts for everybody. i wish that we had aless con ten shts atmosphere in the congress where democrats and republicans could have, as they have in some instances, just talked to each other and really understand each other. and if they disagree, agree to disagreen not do it in such a mean and contentious way. but there are some, there's no doubt about it. i think gene robinson's point is right on point.

there have been some who side with republicans who have used the issue of race as a way to maybe gain greater market share maybe as a way to draw more people to their side. but rather than catering to the worst fears of americans, i think we're best when leadership calls us to listen to our better angels. and our better angels tell us no matter who the president is, we're supposed to honor the president of the united states, pray for that person and hope to god that that person succeeds for the sake of america. and that certainly should be the case for every american when it comes to president obama. that doesn't mean that we can't disagree on policy issues. i know the president was the one that put forward the affordable care act and the intention is very good and noble, to make sure that everybody, especially those who dependent have coverage now have coverage. the down side becomes that the president himself didn't write the bill. he had staff people who wrote the legislation. and there were things about it

that would be a lot better to work with more person americans. we need to not mix that up with the issue of race. >> thank you. appreciate the thoughts tonight. up next, aaron burr, zell miller , and now steve king, the iowa congressman is challenging his opponent to a duel. have you ever looked at someone and right away thought you know exactly what they're like and what they believe in? well, odds are you're wrong. what's on the outside and what's on the inside can be very different. the more you know. [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon.

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would go with chocolate cake and ceviche? the same guy who thought that small caps and bond funds would go with a merging markets. it's a masterpiece. thanks. clearly you are type e. you made it phil. welcome home. now what's our strategy with the fondue? diversifying your portfolio? e*trade gives you the tools and resources to get it right. are you type e*? well back to "hardball." time now for "the side show." jon stewart wasted in time pointing out the hypocrisy when it comes to the va hospital scandal. it seems the republicans' memories fail when it comes to their shortcomings. >> as the president's critics rightly pointed out, president obama knew about the va backlog

problems before he was even president obama. >> this memo prepared for president-elect transition team by the george w. bush administration outlined the difficulties veterans faced in claiming timely health care. >> proof, two things. one, this president hasn't done enough to end this backlog. and two, the previous president hadn't done enough to end the backlog. >> moving on to a gentleman's duel. yes, you heard me correctly. no, it's not 1804. on thursday, steve king of iowa took to the house floor to discuss immigration reform and laid down a gauntlet for democratic senator chuck schumer of new york. >> let's have that duel. not like aaron burr and alexander hamilton, but i would be the one standing on the high ground on that, but let's do it like real men do it today. not duelling pistols at 50 paces. let's do this with microphones within arm's reach. >> the metaphor call duel stems

from schumer calling out king as one of the members of the house who failed to take action on immigration reform. schumer responded saying when steve king lets the house debate comprehensive immigration reform on the floor, i'll happily debate him. it's not the first time a politician as this thrown down the challenge of a duel in a heated debate. take a look at this classic moment from zell miller from the 2004 republican national convention. >> it's a tough question. it takes a few words. >> get out of my face. if you're going to ask me a question, step back and let me answer. >> senator -- >> [ applause ] >> i wish we lived in the day where you could challenge a person to a duel. that would be pretty cool. . >> my money is still on chris matthews in that duel. anyway, up next, we have word investigators are racing to make an indictment stemming from the bridgegate scandal, but who? you're watching "hardball" the place for politics.

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>> here's what's happening. donald sterling has given up control and interest of the los angeles clippers to his wife shelly who will reportedly try to sell the tale. meanwhile, the nba will try to terminate his ownership. thailand declared a cou. what is believed to be a tornado that touched down in casper, wyoming today, there's been no reports of injury or damage. and pope francis is headed to the middle east for a three-day visit. the hope will also make stops in israel and the west bank. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." more developments in the investigation surrounding new jersey governor chris christie and his allies.

new jersey lawmakers continue to hold hearings. we already heard compelling testimony from three people inside ted de the governor's ofd more are on the way. a criminal grand jury has been conven convened, which already called on a christie spokesman to testify. more witnesses are on the way. a manhattan attorney is also constructing a criminal probe with the help of the securities an exchange commission relating to infrastructure projects in a deal to reroute nearly $2 billion in port authority funds to the state. and today, we learn that there are simmering tensions between prosecutors in new jersey and prosecutors in manhattan. according to "main justice" which covers insider news at the department of justice, according to that site, the manhattan da is concerned the u.s. attorney will be soft on christie and his allies because of relationships around the governor's office. quote, it's going to be a race to see who finishes first with an indictment said a person close to the situation. paul fishman won't want to be upstaged by the manhattan da.

so now we have a total of five investigations into the christie and his ally, including a dog fight between criminal prars to put some points on the board. ryan murphy is msnbc's contributor and former managering editor at politicsnj.com. paul butler is professor at the geor georgetown university law school. we can talk about the lane closures back in september. we can talk about the allegations from the hoboken mayor dawn zimmer about the sandy funds and development projects there. we have the news today abthe u.s. attorney, okay, we have the news about the manhattan district attorney and maybe there's tensions between them. and we've all been watching the legislative committee hearings down in trenton. they have a few more witnesses coming up. when you look at those three investigations, the manhattan da, the new jersey legislative committee, what do you think -- where is the most risk potential? what do christie and his team have the most to fear right now? the most to worry about?

>> i think the federal prosecutors, mainly because they have subpoena powers and they can preempt certain kinds of investigations. the legislative investigation is the tip of an iceberg. the mapt bnhattan, da it's a ses inquirely because it deals with new york state law. it deals with lot with securities and the investigation we've heard a lot about. but the federal one is the real risk for christie and the real risk for people around him. buzz they have preemption power and federal law on their side and subpoena power. and they have a lot of manpower dedicated to this investigation at this point. >> so you're a former federal prosecutor. take us inside the office. we have a report today that's basically saying the paul fishman, the u.s. attorney for new jersey, now there's tension with the district attorney from manhattan, his office supposedly according to the report doesn't want to be upstaged. how would something like this -- how would attention from a

different prosecutor's office, how does that affect the psyche? how does that affect the strategy, the effect of federal prosecutors? are they feeling some pressure, some heat here to move a little faster because of what's happening in this district attorney's office? >> so look, vance, the new york prosecutor who has a legitimate concern. governor christie is being investigated by the new jersey u.s. attorney. governor christie used to be the defense attorney. his defense attorney also used to be the new jersey u.s. attorney. so vance, the state prosecutor is worried that there's still lots of people in that office who are investigating christie who literally used to work for him. is there reason to believe concerned? so far we haven't seen it. paul fifshman, u.s. attorney for new jersey seems to be very assertive, very aggressive. so really, this is bad news for governor christie, because he's got two people, both of whom seem anxious to bring prosecution against him. >> yeah. and brian, tell us a little bit more about -- we say the name

paul fishman. paul fishman was appointed sort of president obama's appointee, a democratic appointee, basically the successor to chris christie in his office for u.s. attorney, for a national add yeps that doesn't know him. and i hear this concern all the time. hey, chris christie was the u.s. attorney for seven years. there's got to be a lot of career prosecutors, a lot of people in that office who still know him, like him, loyal to him. knowing the office a little bit and knowing the politics of new jersey a little bit? what can you tell us about that. is that a legitimate concern in your mind? >> i think it was until we started learning otherwise. christie took a lot of people with him to trenton when he became governor. but of course, there are a lot of people still left there. and this is one of the concerns that dawn zimmer had expressed in her diary about not being comfortable with going to the u.s. prosecutor in newark because of this fact. because christie still had friends there and there was a genuine concern that a current u.s. attorney wouldn't be willing to investigate one of their own. our understanding, though, based

on reporting is that fishman, in fact, didn't really like the way christie politicized the office when he was in it. didn't like the way christie leaked to the media. so fishman's office has been very frustrating for reporters to deal with. and that he is serious about building a case in a very methodical way. that's why if it seems leak it's been taking a long time, that's why. and it really hasn't. but if it were to seem that way, that's what's been going on here. there's been a sort of deliberate effort to make sure that whenever they come public with something, if there's an indictment, it will be a good case. >> yeah. well, we're in cable news, so anything over 24 24 hours is an eternity for us. the difference of how this has played, when chris christie was u.s. attorney, anybody who covered new jersey politics, everybody knew that office leaked like crazy. if they were about to move on somebody, you knew about it ahead of time. you had details leaking out to the press all the time. it's the complete opposite with

paul fishman. very opaque, very tough to tell what's going on. but from your background, what can you tell us in terms of what you're expecting on a timetable here? it's been four or five months now that that office has been looking at this. do you have any sense of how soon we can expect to see some kind of a result in that? either way, if they're not going to go forward in the case? when are we going to know? >> it's a textbook prosecution which means we have no idea. anyone outside the u.s. attorney's office who says they know when it's going to happen and when it's going to happen, they're wrong. with regard to the state case, new york state only has jurisdiction over the stuff with the port authority. but with regard to bridgegate and also with the regard to the misallocation of sandy funds, that's exclusively the u.s. attorney of new jersey's case. so does he know that there's a primary season coming up. yes, he knows that. is he using that to determine when and if he's going to bring a case against governor christie?

no. not if he's a professional. and everything we know about paul fishman seems to suggest that he's a professional prosecutor. >> bridgegreat, hoboken, i have have a few more thoughts on it later in the show. appreciate the time. up next, why not everyone agrees with nancy pelosi's decision for democrats to take part on the house select committee on benghazi. in 1953. afghanistan, in 2009. orbiting the moon in 1971. [ male announcer ] once it's earned, usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection. and because usaa's commitment to serve current and former military members and their families is without equal. begin your legacy. get an auto insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve. hey! so i'm looking at my bill, and my fico® credit score's on here. we give you your fico® score each month for free! awesomesauce! wow! the only person i know that says that is...lisa?

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heading into the memorial day weekend, more democrats are distancing themselves into the white house other the alleged misconduct at the veteran affairs hospital. chief among them, kentucky senate nominee allison ludegren crimes who is calling on eric shinseki to resign. mcconnell was trying to make the case that grimes is a puppet for president obama. any distance she can put between herself and the white house can help disspell that idea. nancy tenant is also calling for shinseki's resignation.

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we're back. after recent debating on whether to boycott the house committee on benghazi, nancy pelosi appointed five democratic members of congress who will join the seven republican members already named to the panel. but by taking part in yet another investigation into benghazi, will the democrats be lending bipartisan support to what they've already labelled a witch hunt. joining us is joy reid and ed rendell, former governor of pennsylvania. joy, i would make a terrible political consultant. because if you're asking me what is the smart political play for democrats, should they be on this committee to fight what the republicans should do? should they boycott it? i could give you the argument for both of them. i don't know which is right. i don't know if there is a right

argument here. but what do you think? are they making a mistake? >> you know what, steve, i have interviews congresswoman sanchez, congressman cummings, who i think is a very compelling, arbitor for his own side. he's done a great job opposite darrell issa on the government reform committee, but i have not been persuaded, frankly, be i their arguments on by nancy pelosi's arguments is the best thing for democrats to do strategically was to be in the room to butt any falsehood coming out of the republicans and saying somebody has to be there to stand up for the witnesses. i got to tell you, i think i said this to luke russert earlier in the week, you can't say it's a kangaroo court if you, too, are a kangaroo. they have lent bipartisan legitimacy to a process they called invalid. the said family members who had loved ones who perilled in the benghazi attack to suffer through it. and we are going to have to cover it, not as a partisan

circus with just one party at the table, but as a bipartisan set of hearings that are now legitimate, that now have to be covered, that have to be covered wall to wall in essence. i think democrats have have essentially, they have legitimized, they have rubber stamped the process. >> well, so, governor rendell, i know your view on this is you think democrats, nancy pelosi made the right move, democrats should be taking part in these hearings, should be on the committee. let me give you a demotion, you're no longer governor rendell, you are now a member of the house, a philadelphia seat in the u.s. house and nancy pelosi put you on this committee. listen to what joy ya reed said, the committee is in session, you are sitting there, how do you handle yourself as a democrat on this committee? what do you do as a member of this committee to go up against the republicans? >> first of all, i want to say i love joy reed but she has more confidence in the media than i

do. the media will play into any circus that comes into town, whether it's three ring or one ring. i'm sad to say that as a current member of the media. >> governor, what do you do on this committee? what would you tell a democrat on this committee? how do you make sure you win the story? >> well, first of all, every vote is going to be 7-5, so it's not bipartisan. it's only bipartisan when democrats vote with republicans. then they can claim it's bipartisan. but what i would do is i would start my five minutes every minute by saying, ladies and gentlemen, this is a farce. we have had four congressional investigations. we don't need another. what we should be doing the jobs bill, infrastructure bill, immigration reform. we are wasting the time of the american people who sent us here. that's number one. number two i would say, and i want every republican member on this committee to declare how do they vote on cutting money for state department security? as i i recall, you all voted to cut state department security. you shouldn't be on this committee if you cast that vote. this is nothing but a witch

hunt. and then, i would use my skills and there are some very skilled lawyers that nancy pelosi has put on that committee, to point out the flaws in what they tried to do and to lead our witnesses in the right direction. that is very important. >> so, joy, he is making this point about, okay, bring up this issue of embassy -- funding for embassy securities and ham they're point at these hearings with all the media watchingsome there something to it? >> hammer it. hammer it. >> the governor, who i have great success for, mutual admiration society, just gave a brilliant case for the delauro solution, send elijah couplings in there, brilliant on the house oversight committee. >> absolutely. >> you send one guy in there your all-star in there and you have him do what governor ed rendell just said. >> but maybe -- >> you have now made five people on that committee a part of the process. by the way, having done a negotiation with john boehner? which democrats got exactly nothing they can went in and asked john boehner for party on the committee, they got a no. they went in and asked for

subpoena authority, they got a no. they cannot call witnesses, nothing but sit there and give the visual appeal that republicans want and by the way, there have been about seven previous hearings. what did the media cover? they covered hillary clinton in the witness chair, that one dramatic moment where republicans have pulled that one little soundbite what does it matter, out of her whole statement. that is what was covered. the dramatic moments, hillary clinton and john kerry, that was covered. there have been seven. they weren't covered. by the way, quickly, what we remember from the watergate hearings was in the end, sir, "have you no decency"? that wasn't the democrats, it was the witness. hillary clinton could have been the star, done that job from the witness chair. >> they are getting eli coupling yous, i said that eli couples and four others taking part in the hearings. interesting to watch. keep a close eye, as well as the rest of the media. we got to cut out, i'm sorry, thank you, governor, joy reed for joining us, have a great memorial day weekend. we will be back right after this.

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and we finish tonight with my take on what we have learned about the scandal known as bridgegate. and where it might be heading there are a couple of different scandals squirrelling around the christie administration now, like the allegation from the mayor of hoboken that christie's team tied her hurricane sandy relief money to approval of a big-bucks commercial development project. that scandal in the hands of the u.s. attorney's office and frankly, we have no idea what they are gonna do with it. but what i want to talk about is

the other scandal, the one you know all about, the bridge part of bridgegate. as we talked about earlier, a parade of key witnesses has been appearing before that state legislative committee that's looking into those mysterious george washington bridge lane closures from last year. and none of those witnesses has direct implicated christie or anyone in his immediate circle in being in on the planning or actively trying to cover it up. but, there are now multiple accounts of christie and his inner circle being warned last october, last november and last december, bridget kelly, his former deputy chief of staff, knew about the closures as they were happening. that bill steppian, who was one of christie's top political lieutenants, knew as well. and that david wildstein, who oversaw the shutdowns was claiming he had personally told the governor about them. this is the part of this christie story that i have a hard time swallowing, the whied that he was completely blind sided back in january, back when bridget kelly's time for some traffic problems in fort lee e-mails came out. the idea that he had no idea

before then that this was really a possibility, that he tried his hard toast get to the bottom of it, but that he had been thwarted only because bridget kelly hadn't been honest about her role. when i look at all those clues, all those warnings that were in the air around christie, that were in his office last september, october, november, december, the first thing that i remember is that christie himself is a former united states attorney. he is a tough-nosed prosecutor who wanted everyone to know how smart he was when it came to sniffing out bs and finding out the truth. that guy, the chris christie i remember from his days as u.s. attorney, that guy wouldn't and couldn't have been blind sided by that bridget kelly e-mail. he would have been a lot more suspicious from the start. we have been a lot more, aggressive and relentless about getting to the bottom of who really did what and who really knew what. i haven't seen any evidence that chris christie committed a crime when it comes to the george washington bridge lane closures and there's a very good chance that he didn't but i have also seen a lot of evidence that when all the details of what happened at the bridge started to come to light, christie's response

wasn't to get to the bottom of it. it was to bury his head in the sand and hope it would all just go away. that's "hardball" for now thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. as we promise you had last night, tonight, an "all in" ex-close inclusive. postracial world it is obama who sees race. >> race relations in this country have come a long way, just reelected a black president, our first. >> i have always made the argument over several years now that america, before the election of barack obama that we are in a postracial america. >> it's getting tiring. we have a black president. we have black senators. we have black heads of -- captains of business, companies, we have black entertainment channels. where -- is there racism? i don't think there's racism. >> you hear it all the time these days, the notion the country's election and