intelligence agency. >> basically he was doing his computer stuff. >> when people ask why are you in russia, i say, please, ask the state department. >> for supposedly a smart guy, that's a pretty dumb answer. he should man up and come back to the united states. >> just yesterday, i got a phone call from a congressperson. they have done nothing. and that's why chris died. not one more person should have to die because of this ridiculous situation. u.s. military action cannot be the only component of our leadership in every instance. >> we've got to move past the false choice we were given back in 2001. >> just because we have a hammer does not mean every problem is a nail. a 25-year-old pregnant woman was stoned to death in broad daylight. the woman was beaten with bricks because she married the man she loved. police say the father admits killing his daughter because she rejected her family's wishes. tributes are pouring in for renowned poet, writer, activist

maya angelou. >> she worked alongside both mal cook x and dr. martin luther king. >> i want to see some honesty, some fair play. america's top official today had some big foreign policy announcements. first, america's top foreign policy official also had some things to say about something else. >> edward snowden is a coward. he is a traitor. and he has betrayed his country. and if he wants to come home tomorrow to face the music, he can do so. >> well, secretary kerry, you really know how to make a guy feel welcome. his ardent embrace is for the 30-year-old responsible for the largest theft of intelligence information in the history of the united states. he took as many as 1.7 million

documents according to government officials. but was our government really snookered by a low-level analyst as they've claimed repeatedly? in an exclusive interview with brian williams, snowden says, not so much. >> i was trained as a spy, in sort of the traditional sense of the word, in that i lived and worked undercover, overseas, pretending to work in a job that i'm not, and even being assigned a name that was not mine. now, the government might deny these things, they might frame it in certain ways and say, he's a low-level analyst, but what they're trying to do is they're trying to use one position that i've had in a career here, or there, to distract from the totality of my experience. >> he did go by the nam da gur the true who ha about gaming and anime. that's a true story. but what he's talking about is a lecture for the intelligence

agency at the counterintelligence training academy. maybe he'd care for it to be a little less so. he's living in secrecy in russia after being charged under the espionage act. tell us, mr. snowden, why russia? >> the reality is, i never intended to end up in russia. i had a flight booked to cuba, onwards to latin america. and i was stopped because the united states government decided to revoke my passport and trap me in moscow airport. so when people ask, why are you in russia, i say, please, ask the state department. >> so our colleagues at nbc news did ask the state department. >> the fact is that, you know, he can come home, but he's a fugitive from justice. which is why he's not being permitted to fly around the world, it's that simple. >> is it that simple? joining us now is jeremy, former

chief of staff to leon panetta, and a longtime official at t defense department. jeremy, thanks so much for being here, sir. first off, what is the specific damage that's been done to national security since those documents were published last year? >> hey, ronan. look, i think it would be one thing if snowden had gone out and said, look, i'm really uncomfortable with the way the americans' telephone record is under section 215 of the patriot act, or being compiled by the nsa. i think it's a stretch of the law and i think we should do something about it to try to make the fourth amendment case. instead, what he did, he downloaded and took 1.7 million documents talking about chinese fire aircraft and russian capabilities and al qaeda and pakistani nuclear weapons. he put it on four encrypted laptops and made a run for china. he really wanted to get to cuba ultimately and ended up in

moscow. hardly bastions of cuba. i consider him at best delusional, narcissistic, doesn't even really know what's on those laptops, what he has revealed to the press. at worse, someone who knowingly has done grave damage to the united states. to answer your specific question, ronan, look, the way we collect information abroad is through very sensitive sources of information, and methods of tapping into things, and listening, and reviewing and compiling information. if he broadcasts that to the public and ultimately to our adversaries, it's going to undo everything we've done. it's cost billions of dollars in damage and he could actually put people's lives at stake. >> i was on the wikileaks task force, and i understand how leaks can be damaging to national security. but don't you have to concede in this case he's done the country service? there are tangible reforms that the director admits is a direct

result of these leaks. >> i think the legislation that's before congress right now is to limit the section 215 program, is one perhaps positive by-product of an ocean of very unproductive, very negative things that he did. and there are other ways to do it. i don't want to give him too much credit for sparking this conversation about the phone records program. >> you think the reforms would have happened without the leaks? >> i think these are reforms -- i think the one reform in particular which is to take this phone records program of phone call records, not the content, but the phone call records and to make the nsa get more targeted orders from a fisa court, i don't know if that would have happened without the leaks. and i can see that his leaking of that information led to this conversation. but i'm also not sure that having that phone program in place was any big detriment to fourth amendment equities of the american people. so again, i don't want to give him too much credit. i really think, ronan, you're so

reasonable. i mean, you have to see how delusional he is. i mean, he says he was a spy? i mean, come on, everybody who the intelligence community puts overseas in an embassy is under some nominal cover. everyone has access to some alias and cover. he wasn't running operations. >> you hit on some of the very good valid critiques in the way the leaks were conducted. the fact that some are defense secrets that don't need to get out. some of them are just normal conduct in the business of diplomacy, like some of the surveillance activities on foreign ambassadors. on the other hand, don't you think that some of these things, like the p.r.i.s.m. program, should have leaked? >> look, other than that one document, the very first one he put out, which was that fisa court order of the phone records program, i think everything else is about foreign targets, foreign collection. the p.r.i.s.m. program which you mentioned, ronan, is a program that was authorized by congress

in 2008, carefully reviewed by the fisa court, reviewed by the attorney general, reviewed by inspector general, what that program does is allows the government to target people outside the united states who happen to use things like gmail and hotmail and target them and say, we're going to get a fisa court order to allow us to collect against that. again, court review, congressional review. >> can he invoke the fisa court the way its accountability has been deconstructed? it seems like an empty approval from that court. >> in the p.r.i.s.m. program we're talking about foreigners overseas, who do not, as a de descriptive matter, or normative matter, i don't think we should be looking out for the fourth amendment rights of al qaeda people. in the abundance of caution because they're communications transited the u.s. and used some

u.s. companies, in 2008, congress saw fit to put some belt and suspenders around that to have some review by lifetime tenured article 3 judges who review this, with the justice department and report to congress. now, people say, fisa courts are a rubber stamp. really, have the litigators who have to go before the fisa court and get these reviewed every 90 days. the reason why the rate of approval is so high, is because doj does not dare take one step into the fisa court unless their pleadings are legitimate. >> it's clearly changing rapidly. that overview is helpful. as we part ways, the last question, how do you think this all ends for edward snowden? think he will ever made it back to the united states? >> i don't think so. i think he'll grow old in a very cold moscow apartment. and i think he's going to continue to inflate his own resume and try to get some world sympathy. i don't think it will work too well here.

>> jeremy, thank you so much for joining. >> thank you, ronan. >> see more of brian williams' interview tonight on nbc. barack obama's presidency has been bedeviled by some of the surveillance issues, but also by foreign wars, and foreign policy dilemmas. hawks on the hill accused him of responding to the indecisiveness, in excess of caution. in a commencement speech at west point today, he set out to render a clearer obama doctrine, good you will. first, he explained his reluctance to engage. he's wrenched by putting troops in harm's way. and who wouldn't be. >> four of the service members who stood in the audience when i announced the surge of our forces in afghanistan gave their lives in that effort. a lot more were wounded. i believe america's security demanded those deployments, but

i am haunted by those deaths. i am haunted by those wounds. >> wait, wait, he wants intervention, too. see, america has duties. >> beyond these narrow rationales, i believe we have a real stake, abiding self-interest, in making sure our children and grandchildren grow up in a world where school girls are not kidnapped, where individuals are not slaughtered because of tribe or faith or political belief. i believe of a world of greater freedom and tolerance is not only a moral imperative, it also helps to keep us safe. >> his solution? empowering others to do the dirty work. >> as we move to a training and advising mission in afghanistan, our reduced presence there allows us to more effectively

address emerging threats in africa. i'm calling on congress to support a new counterterrorism partnerships fund of up to $5 billion which will allow us to train, build capacity and facilitate partner countries on the front lines. >> the problem? this is a strategy that america has tried again and again, often to our detriment. look at the u.s. funding in afghanistan. or america's disastrous secret backing of warlords in somalia. or more recently, how in egypt we've approved the release of more than $1 billion of military aid to a regime using it to mow down protesters. be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one. that's not president obama, that's a little pretentious. joining me to discuss, msnbc military analyst, division commander and former national security council member. thank you for joining us, sir. are we shifting to a strategy of proxy wars here?

>> well, it's hard to say. let me begin by saying, i think the president's very difficult political calculus is the right thing to do in afghanistan. 22,000 killed and wounded, $600 billion. the american people don't support it. and by the way, would continue presence, significant presence actually turn the thing around. unlikely. it's the right call to come out. the question it seems to me, ronan, as we go forward is, i would use diplomatic power, covert action, backed up by resourced, well-equipped, trained and ready military forces to, you know, achieve our foreign policy goals. but we announce a pivot to the pacific as an example. but the air power funding and the naval power funding, call it into question. i think proxy wars is another one. at the end of the day, if we're

dealing with north korea in trying to deter them from military action, they have to see genuine u.s. political resolve to employ overwhelming military power. an earlier show today, we were talking about, you know, the obama administration declared the end of ground warfare. but we have to negotiate that with our adversarieadversaries. syria, a good example. the iranian threat to the gulf region. we can't back away from warfare. we're engaged in the world. >> general, isn't syria a good example of some of the unknowns when we talk about what president obama refers to as partnerships. but what can often be fraught abusive relationships. he seems to want to pursue this approach of proxy wars, if you will, and have others do the fighting for us because it avoids imperilling americans directly. when you look at the links between 9/11 and the training we did in afghanistan in the '80ings, isn't that ample

evidence that this can actually come back and imperil americans? >> i think so. it's tough to think through this. by the way, i think earlier on in syria, we should have gotten massively involved through covert action to support the rebellion against this monstrous assad regime. look what it's turned into, 180,000 murdered, and they destroyed the whole country. but i think, again, president obama was right to not take -- secretary kerry started talking about obtaining military strikes. if you get involved, colin powell's statement used to be, if you break it, you own it. so staying out of syria with u.s. military power was another smart diplomatic and military move. >> general mccafferty, thank you for joining us. really appreciate that overview. it's a complicated landscape he is outlineding internationally. we'll see how his critics and supporters react in the coming

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maya angelou, one of the most powerful voices in american culture, civil rights, and literature died this morning. she was born april 4th, 1928. she's remembered as a woman who overcame a violent difficult childhood. and grew into a national icon. in a statement today her family wrote, the family is extremely grateful that her ascension was not belabored by a loss of acuity or comprehension. she lived a life as a teacher, activist, artist and human being. she was a warrior for equality, tolerance, and peace. maya angelou first gained

acclaim as a writer writing "i know why the caged bird sings" in the 1970s. she spoke often about the power of writing, including last year with our own andrea mitchell. >> with the book, the young man, the young woman gets a chance to say, oh, in russia, there's kids who think just as i think. oh, in south africa, there are kids who think -- who are afraid of the dark. and, oh, i see, in france, there are people who long to have a sandwich after school. just as i do. so that that brings the world closer to a young man or young woman. and him or her closer to being a global citizen. >> wasn't she great? she was also an activist. quite a firebrand of one. working with the likes of m malcolm x, and martin luther

king jr. she became the first woman, the first african-american poet to participate in a presidential inauguration. her final tweet was five days ago, listen to yourself, and you might hear the voice of god. outpourings have come in from around the world. condoleezza rice ritweeted, may angelo was a magical person, able to communicate deep insights with soul and speak of the unstoppable joy in the human spirit. and reminding us for impact, on youth, of future generations. "sesame street" tweeted this. we're saddened by the passing of our friend maya angelou. thank you for all you've done and for all the hugs. just moments ago president obama released a statement of his own saying, michelle and i join millions around the world in remembering one of the brightest lights of our time, a brilliant writer, a fierce friend and a

truly phenomenal woman. the kind words and a strong embrace, she had the ability to remind us that we are all god's children, and we all have something to offer. joining me now on the phone is sapphire, the author of the novel "push" which inspired the movie "precious" and somewhat of a protege of maya angelou. tell us what she was like in person. >> i was a member of the organization called organization of african women writers. and maya angelou was a founding member of that organization. and of course, the most famous. and she was very well spoken woman. and she had what the cliche would be the common touch. when she came into the room, it wasn't about maya, she noticed and knew everybody else's names. she was acquainted with our work. she made, you know, people who

were really way down the ladder from where she stood feel as though they were important, too. she had a great sense of other writers as being -- younger writers as being part of the future, and that we were important. and so she shared that with people. >> she seemed to really care so deeply about education and about her legacy and reaching out to the next generation. last year she spoke about that to melissa harris-perry. take a listen to that. >> now there are 40 schools around the country named for me and libraries and homes and things, areas in cities. in fact, in harlem, areas named for me, that people have been told, if you name them for maya, maybe the people will take it back, and, you know, oppose the

druthers. and the brutes. it's a blessing to work hard and be given such kudos, such responsibility, such honor. >> she did have that formative influence on so many communities and so many individuals. sapphire, what kind of an influence did she have on your work? >> one of the things that was really important about maya angelou's work in general was what you just mentioned, the emphasis on education. there's a part in "why the caged bird sings" where a white principal comes in and he humiliates the african-american students and recommends that they will go on to do, you know, manual labor and farm work and stuff like that. and the minute that white principal leaves the room, the black teacher takes over. and he begins to talk, and he begins to heal and he begins to

reinspire those students who had to sit there and be humiliated by this white principal, you know, the superintendent. and i always remembered that. and for centuries, blacks were kept out of business on some levels. they would burn our stores and farms and stuff in the south. but the one thing, you know, our parents always told us, the one thing they can't take from you is an education. and maya angelou showed the importance of that in her own life and in her work. that these things were more important than just material gain. and so that was really important to me. and then she also was a ground breaker. she was willing to discuss topics in her literature which would become mainstream, which had been taboo in some ways. she talked about child

molestation. she talked about poverty. she talked about families broken. she talked about revenge in some ways. things that just had been off the table, she put it on the table. >> and that's a part of your own work. >> exactly. it was like she was a literary mother saying, you have permission to take this, and to take it further if need be. so that was very important to me. >> and i know that willingness to brake taboo meant so much to so many readers to her work and yours as well. president clinton joined the chorus moments ago saying, the poems and stories she wrote and read to us in her commanding voice were gifts of wisdom and wit, courage and grace. what was the significance of that moment of her reading at his 1993 inauguration? >> it was amazing. two things that happened is, i saw that, and then some years

earlier at the age of 13, i saw robert frost reading at jfk's inauguration. and so, and robert frost kind of mumbled his poem and stood there in his male greatness. but maya angelou took the stage, and she commanded, and her voice rung out, and she went back to the original -- to shakespeare, that poetry is an art of performance as well as a literary art. and to see this african-american woman standing where no other african-american woman had ever stood before, once again, it becomes possible. and it's repeated with the wonderful young poet, elizabeth alexander. you know, she broke all of that open for so many people. she allowed us to be who we are. >> you talked about it not just being reading in a context like

that, but performance. >> performance. she was a true performer. and that is, you know, poetry has always been an oral art. it's always been a spoken art. when i studied with allen ginsburg, he talked about the town cryers in europe as they rode from town to town, and hollered out the news in rhyme. so it was never this stayed thing where ice-bound intellectualism. >> sapphire, thank you so much for joining us. author of "push." we'll all continue to remember maya angelou throughout the day today. oh my god! look. you need to see this. show 'em the curve. ♪ do you know what this means? the greater the curvature, the bigger the difference. [sci-fi tractor beam sound] ...sucked me right in... it's beautiful. gotta admit one thing... ...can't beat the view.

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purina cat chow naturals. welcome back. they may be down, but they are definitely not out. last night in texas, the tea party won big in races across the state. most notably dan patrick won the nomination for lieutenant governor. handily defeating longtime incumbent dew hurs the. it was noted the gop shifts right. the "dallas morning news" summing it all up, tea for texas. one of the biggest upcoming tests, iowa. holding its primary on june 3rd. joining me now to look at all of this, and see how strong it will get across the country,

hogan, republican strategist for rick santorum's 2012 campaign, and former democratic governor of montana, brian schweitzer. governor, why does the tea party loom so large in texas? there are a lot of defeats around the country and elsewhere. but texas, they're still going strong. what do you think? >> listen, let's remember who the tea party is. they're just part of the republican party. like a family that's not comfortable in a neighborhood so they go out and buy a puppy and bring it home, and it grows up to be an attack dog and bites the kids, but they can't get rid of him, because he's part of the family. they'll work this out within the republican party. how far right they'll go? they'll probably keep shifting to the right. >> hogan, speaking of shifting to the right, dewhurst ran for the senator in 2012 but lost the nomination to ted cruz, another major player and another person trying to shift the party right. do you think patrick is the next

cruz? do you think he could play a similar role in the party? >> i'm not sure. but let's be honest, the tea party started, it was formed and founded because it was the tax enough already movement. that forced a lot of conservatives, even some established conservatives to take up the mantle of smaller government. and it plays into the gubernatorial race in the sense that here we have a state that obviously loves its tea party members. and one of your colleagues actually at msnbc, ronan, wrote to me, what's the fascination with davis? i said 70% of americans say they reject the kinds of abortion that wendy davis promotes. so the question isn't, what's the rights fascination with wendy davis, the question is, what's the left's fascination with wendy davis? we get derided for putting forth candidates that lose elections. here in texas we put forth two who are absolutely going to win in a walk. wendy davis is going to go down in flames because she stands for

an issue that no one in texas, and quite frankly, most of america, rejects. >> governor, do you agree with that assessment? how does this look for wendy davis? >> let's talk about dan patrick. it's interesting that the business interests like dan patrick, a man who, let's see, ran away from his desk by declaring bankruptcy, and if that wasn't enough, he changed his name. his name isn't even dan patrick. his birth certificate is something else. that's strange that 65% of texas would vote for a guy like that. >> and wendy davis? what do you think? you dodging the question? >> no, not dodging the question. i think hogan is out of step here. more than 50% of america believes a woman has a right to medical care between her and her doctor. that's where wendy davis is. she's in the mainstream of america. hogan might be a little bit out looking in. >> let's tackle -- >> on this very show, ronan, on this very show, last week on this very show, the good

governor told us he derided the republican party for taking out-of-state money. wendy davis' disclosure form showed most of her money comes from out of state. i'm sure he will join me in rejecting the out-of-state money coming in. >> that is a fact, governor. although, we were just down in brownsville for one of her events, and look, there's a lot of domestic support, too. a lot of texas women responding to that call. while i have you both here, i want to move to other challenges for the tea party, big connections in texas and iowa. iowa's governor today running for a sixth term, and rick perry, both appeared in an ad for americans for economic freedom. what's the current state of the tea party in iowa, do you think, hogan? >> it's actually alive and well. i spoke to a lot of people op the ground there today. several folks. they told me that the anti-obama movement is so big in iowa, that any republican, any one of these republicans would actually garner 45%.

the question then becomes, of course, is that candidate going to be able to pull 6% to go on and win. there are questions surrounding each one of these candidates and their credibility in a general election. but only time will tell that. and right now, it is so tight, and so intense, however, from what i hear, joanie ernst could actually win this without a runoff. >> the question, though, are those -- >> the lower tier tier candidates, can they get enough votes to a runoff. >> governor, what do you think of the backing of joanie ernst by governor mitt romney? >> joanie has backing from the moderate wing and the far right wing of the republican party. you know, it's one woman against four guys, and she's famous for being castrater of the pigs. she's got to get to 35% or it will be decided in convention. we're not sure how this thing's going to end. there's five of them. she's riding at about 35%. this could end with a convention deciding who the candidate's

going to be, not an election. >> all right. hogan, and former governor brian schweitzer, appreciate it. why motor city slammed the brakes on thousands of unresolved rape cases. one prosecutor is fighting to get things moving. you don't want to miss this one. stay with us. if i can impart one lesson to a new business owner, it would be one thing i've learned is my philosophy is real simple american express open forum is an on-line community, that helps our members connect and share ideas to make smart business decisions.

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how would you feel if you went through the most horrific attack imaginable, subjected yourself to an invasive collection of evidence, only to find out that that evidence was just sitting on a shelf, untested, for years? that's the situation thousands are in in detroit. 11,341 to be exact. that is the number of untested rape kits discovered there in 2009. so what kind of progress is the city making trying to get those kits tested? just last week, the michigan state house unanimously approved a bill to speed up rape kit

testing. it doesn't affect the backlog, it's intended to prevent future backlog buildup in the first place. a detroit woman whose kit was left untested for 14 years, she reunited with wayne county prosecutor kim worthy who finally had audrey's kit tested and brought her rapist to justice. >> i really want to thank you. you're heaven-sent, an angel. >> i'm just hoping we can do this for other women as well. >> i do, too. >> thank you. >> you're very welcome. >> joining me is the prosecutor from that county, kim worthy. kim, thank you so much for your work on this. thank you for joining the program. what headway is detroit making? >> well, pretty good, considering our resources. we have tested about 2,000 of the kits of the over 11,000. the national institute of justice allowed us to test 1,500. out of that 1,600 we've

identified over 127 serial rapists. these rapists don't stop at the state of michigan lines, they go on to rape in other places. these same rapists within these 1,600 have gone on to rape in 23 other jurisdictions. so over half, almost half of the states in the united states these rapists have gone to rape. >> that's what we've heard all around the country that this is not a problem with the cities with a big backlog, this affects all of our safety. listen to the mayor of memphis. we talked to him over the weekend about sex offenders. he made a detroit connection. >> sex offenders by their very nature are somewhat itinerate. i've had cases where crimes were committed in detroit, but the defendant turned up here. >> kim, how much of a national problem is this? >> there is estimated to be right now about 400,000

untested, abandoned, backlogged rape kits sitting. across the united states. 400,000. in each one of those 400,000 represents a victim. that is a pervasive problem, it's not detroit only or memphis only, it's a problem that's pervasive across the entire states of these united states. >> and of course, you are a prosecutor. but you've also been very open about the fact that you're a survivor of sexual assault yourself. does that change your motivations on this? does that put you in a unique position to attend to the backlogs? >> i think i would have been passionate about this anyway, because i've been elected in the county of wayne, the largest county in the state of michigan. so certainly that probably has a part of me. but i don't think that's my sole motivation. i would have done this anyway. because each of these represents a victim. we're talking over 11,000 victims in one city, in one state in america. so you can imagine how pervasive this is. >> you just have to think how

many wrenching personal stories that is all across the country. kim worthy, thank you. what would you say to the legislators voting on federal funding for ending this backlog around the country this week? >> i would say, what i've said already, but also, it's not just rape. these rapists don't just rape, they break into your house and rape. they rape and they kill. they rob you and then they kill. they car jack you and then kill you. it's not just rape. it's pointed to all other violent crimes as well. we're really talking about all violent crimes here. >> an important issue that can increase all of our safety as we end this backlog. that's why our call to action this week is focused on this. add your signature to this letter. we're urging to include the $36 million in funding in the 2015 fiscal year commerce justice and science appropriations bill to help clear the backlog of rape kits we're talking about all across the u.s. find the letter on our website. tomorrow, we're going to have an exclusive interview with

that memphis mayor. it has the highest number of kits in their backlog anywhere in the country. he's going to have an exclusive announcement of what they're going to do to fight that. stay with us. up next on the program, something a little lighter. gwyneth step aside, emma thompson says you can't be a good mum and keep working all the time. does her sensibility make any sense? that's next. tadalafil for daile

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>> it's the mother of all debates. how to be a good mom. don't moms have it hard enough without everybody fighting on what it means to be a good one all the time? yet another heavy-hitting hollywood actress seems to think want. oscar winning screen writer and actress emma thompson, best known for her roles in sense and senseible and saving mr. banks said in an interview with the daily mail you can't be a great mom and keep working all the

time. lot of that britishism. she says motherhood is a full-time job. the only way i could have continued working would have been by delegating the running of the home to other people. i never wanted to do thshg as i find motherhood profoundly enjoyable. this, of course, comes hot on the heels of gwyneth paltrow's controversial remarks that movie actress moms have it tougher than working mom with an office job. joined now -- pleasure to have you back. what's your reaction to emma thompson's comments? >> we have more celebrities behaving badly saying judgmental things about everyday moms. >> she seems like a lovely woman. >> totally. i love emma thompson. >> it's a little bit ill-judged, right, because the perception that you are up against for someone like her is you have it easy, you have the luxury of choice that not all working moms have. >> i think what most parents would love is more choice, but most don't have a choice about

whether or not to work at all. i mean, most american parents have to work. >> we were just talking about this in the break. i grew up with a working mom. even in her industry, for that matter. i think that mom was going to work was a really positive example. it made me respect women who work throughout my life. it made me understand that that's a difficult call, but for some people it's the right one. >> it sets an amazing example, and, you know, also, i think that when you get down to it, a happy mom is a good mom and, you know, the -- >> that means different things to different people. >> there are many ways to be a good mom. >> another celebrity chimed in, seemingly, actually, pretty on point in temz of tone. angelina jolie said, "i actually feel that women in my position when we have all at our disposal that we do to help us, we shouldn't complain, considering the people that don't have the financial means, don't have the support, and many people are single raising children. that's hard." do you think that that is the correct kind of perceptiveness about the reality of parenthood for most non-celebrities?

>> i think angelina jolie should just go around giving seminars to other celebrity moms on here's how -- here are the talking points. awareness of her fortune and -- >> it's smart also to call out single moms. there's a wealth disparity. she has more resources. also, she has a partner, and that makes a big difference. >> it does. >> it's very sensitive. nonjudgmental is always welcome in these cases. you wrote a letter to gwyneth paltrow critiquing her comments that seemed out of touch. what would you write to emma thompson? >> you know, i would say the same thing. just to maybe, emma, show a little more sense and sensibility with your comments on working moms. there are a lot of ways to be a great mom, you know, and that may include working. >> always a pleasure to have you on the program. >> thank you. that wraps things up for today's edition of "rfd."

thank you for joining me. the reid report with another fabulous mom, joy reid, is up after the break. making new york state number two in the nation in new private sector job creation... with 10 regional development strategies to fit your business needs. and now it's even better because they've introduced startup new york... with the state creating dozens of tax-frezones where businesses pay no taxes for ten years. become the next business to discover the new new york. [ male announcer ] see if your business qualifies.

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it's wednesday. i'm joy reid. this is "the reid report. "today president obama pushes back against credit i objects who say his approach to global problems has made our enemies stronger. zoolg leading but also showing . >> i was trained as a spy in sort of the traditional sense of the word in that i lived and worked under cover overseas. >> edward snowden sits down exclusively with nbc's brian williams, but wait until you

hear what secretary of state john kerry had to say about snowden. also ahead today we remember legendary poet, writer, and activist maya angelo. >> every human being has the possibility and the probability and the privilege really of inspiring someone else. >> we start in west point, new york, where just a short time ago president obama laid out his vision for american foreign policy and a new $5 billion counterterrorism fund. in a commencement address before a group of graduating cadets. it comes a a daf president obama announced an updated timeline for ending our military mission in afghanistan. with fewer than 10,000 troops scheduled to remain there by the end of the year. down from 180,000 total in afghanistan and iraq when mr. obama took office. now, while t