someone you know, can't it wait until tomorrow? that does it for "the cycle." "now with alex wagner" starts right now. a scathing report on the v.a. and a mounting political crisis for the white house. it's thursday, may 29th. and this is "now." >> it's now a question of when, not if shinseki will go. >> calls for eric shinseki to resign. >> it broke late last night. >> democratic senators -- >> have also called for the secretary to step down. >> 42 v.a. hospitals are now under investigation. >> the report also found 1,700 vets -- >> were never even placed on a wait list. >> this is shameful in every way. >> officials from the veterans administration were called before congress for questioning. >> they will not provide us the information that we have been asking for for years. >> this is criminal negligence. >> people have died.

we need to get answers. >> it goes to the competence of the administration. >> the president is the one who should be held accountable. >> this could be the biggest issue of the election. >> it's not suggesting there's a political scandal to step in and say, i asked for a job to be done, job not done, we have to bring in somebody else. >> on thin ice, those are the words of an administration official to nbc news this afternoon describing the dicey situation for v.a. secretary eric shinseki. his job is now very much on the line after the release of a damning report which confirmed that 1,700 vets were left off official wait lists and a v.a. hospital in phoenix. the report concluded there were systemic scheduling problems throughout the veterans administration. and with the scandal broadening in its scope almost daily, the politics are that much more precarious for president obama who is now facing what may be

one of the toughest domestic crises of his presidency. the president is standing by shinseki and taking a wait-and-see approach. >> the president wants to see the results of these reports. he, as you know, made clear he believes there ought to be accountability once we establish all the facts. >> shinseki himself wrote, quote, the findings of the interim report are reprehensible to me and to this department and we are not waiting to set things straight. those calling for a resignation include eight senate democrats, all but one of whom campaigning for reelection this year. 17 house democrats have joined them in demanding shinseki's departure. though minority leader nancy pelosi is not among them, she is calling for a justice department investigation. >> this is shameful in every way. we'll find out if it's criminal.

>> as for house speaker john boehner, he said he is reserving judgment on shinseki but left no doubt about exactly where he thinks the buck stops. >> is him resigning going to get us to the bottom of the problem? is it going to help us find out what's really going on? and the answer i keep getting is no. but the real issue here is that the president is the one who should be held accountable. >> while shinseki's fate hangs in the balance, so, too, does that of the 1,700 sick veterans who are still waiting for treatment. joining me now is washington bureau chief for "time" michael sharer and political white house correspondent at "the huffington post" sam stein. shinseki is meeting with the president tomorrow. is there any sense a resignation may be the result of that meeting? >> it could be. the white house message today is they're going to wait for further reports.

one of the most damning parts of this report is there are more institutions we haven't uncovered. for shinseki, the worst part of the report is it made clear the problems are systemic. on the hill a few weeks ago, he said it was isolated cases. he doesn't understand the problems when he testified before congress. that raises questions about whether he's in the best position to fix it. i think obama has a number of candidates running for office who don't want to be answering these questions going out of the summer. >> sam, it's hard to understand what the further calculus is beyond -- the president was out there last week and said, i don't yet know how systemic this is. the i.g.'s report says this is systemic. it feels like he's got to do something and something soon. >> yeah, on the one hand, this

white house has been in past crises hesitant to overreact too quickly. and i think what they're gauging right now is essentially if they were to replace the leadership at the v.a., including general shinseki, who would take the place? how would that leadership, recalibration affect the rest of the ranks? would that in any way make the problem actually worse? i think all those questions need to be answered logically before they move forward with any leadership restructuring. but on the other hand, you have a political problem, which is that about one-fifth of the senate this juncture called for shinseki to go, including basically every democrat who's up for election this year. and one assumes the white house political office and the white house advisers are getting an earful from house and senate democrats saying, we need you to show you're taking the reins on this. there's those two counterbalancing issues at play here. >> when we talk about this

president's hesitancy to fire people -- we've talked about how much shinseki or the president could have managed the slow-moving crisis. this vote does feel like the biggest -- as far as wrongdoing and a real issue for this administration, in a way that the aca glitches were not good, if there is evidence pointing to people's lives having been lost as a result of these wait times, this could be, i think, one of the biggest domestic crises he's had to face. >> yeah, it's fair so day the president prides himself on not bowing to political pressure. doing what's right in terms of getting management of the problem. we are dealing with an agency, over 300,000 employees, it goes beyond the scheduling issue.

the scheduling issue in the grand scheme of everything happening in the v.a. isn't the only problem. i think boehner is probably right on the merits. if you fire shinseki tonight, tomorrow you're not going to wake up with a situation that's more easy to solve, what's going on in the v.a. that said, like sam said, the president and the white house are going to have to balance that against the election -- >> optics. >> the optics, the fact that we're talking about this right now on television. i don't think there's much of a question that shinseki as leader of the v.a. is damaged goods going forward. at some point, he is going to move out. the question is whether that happens in the next month or two. >> and the report is not good for eric shinseki's stewardship of the v.a. boehner pointed out in 2013 that they gave a letter to the g.a.o. -- sorry, they sent a letter to shinseki going back to early 2013, talking about the

g.a.o. report on wait times. that was over a year ago at this point. so when we talk about -- it's not just optics. there is a real question in terms of his leadership. what's interesting to me, sam, is in boehner's response -- you could say he's been actually fairly measured and not doing what marshall blackburn has done who's been tweeting about solyndra and benghazi -- >> it's too graphic. >> yeah, too graphic. it's a family program. but boehner, one does wonder to what end this is going to be -- this crisis goes to the broader problem of making the v.a. health system into a voucher system -- >> you get the sense that john boehner knows that if the president fired shinseki tonight that he would look in some ways like he was cleaning up the job and that he would get maybe a

political bump because of it. and it wouldn't solve the problem on a substantive level. but the bigger question is -- and i think this one actually hurts the president even more so -- can the v.a. exist in its current form and is more money for the v.a. a passable solution to this crisis because there has been an increase in the v.a. budget including these problems are still a systemic issue, it looks like. how do you restructure the v.a. to deal with 21st century warfare, wounds and needs? i don't think anyone's having that conversation on a substantive level yet because we're still dealing with this leadership thing. but i think john boehner is closer to that than a lot of the rest of his caucus. >> well, it bears mentioning that senate democrats introduced a bill to provide funding for 27 new facilities for the v.a. and that fell to miblster. and that fell to filibuster. funding seems to be one of the answers here and republicans have been resistant to that? >> i don't think we have a

groundswell. veterans still like the v.a. given all these problems -- the republicans come in and say, we're going to give you a voucher, take it to whatever doctor -- you have an uprising among the veterans community. not likely that will be the outcome of this. but we do have an enormous bureaucracy with enormous problems. it's clear not just from shinseki's leadership but previous people who have been in this job, whoever's running that agency doesn't even have the power or the foresight or all the information he or she needs to know what's going on in that agency. so it's not clear that it's -- >> don't you get the sense the administration is standing back in part because they want to come at this problem with more than just a restructuring of the higher level of the v.a. secretary's office? they want to say, here or five or six reforms that in addition to a leadership change, we want congress to consider this? that way they look like they're trying to handle it --

>> well, they actually will be handling it. part of the reason the wait times were exacerbated is there was a 14-day limit that the health care system could not handle. michael and sam, thank you guys both for your time and thoughts. after the break, senator mitch mcconnell hates obamacare. but he doesn't have a problem with connect? has anyone told him they're the same thing? jonathan capehart and brian boyler discuss that, next on "now." shoulder pain... ...and a choice take 6 tylenol in a day which is 2 aleve for... ...all day relief. hmm. [bell ring] "roll sound!" "action!" [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪

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yet against obamacare. this law is a disaster. obamacare should be repealed, root and branch. >> kentucky senator mitch mcconnell might just be the person in america who hates obamacare the most. but over the last few days, mitch mcconnell has inadvertently and awkwardly come out in support of the affordable care act. for the past week, mcconnell has tried to maintain his zeal to repeal while also supporting his state's widely successful state-based health care exchange known as kynect. that system established as part of the affordable care act has employed over 430,000 kentuckians. he said, the fate of kynect was unconnected to the fate of obamacare. on tuesday, a spokesman for senator mcconnell added, if obamacare is repealed, kentucky should decide for itself whether to keep kynect or set up a different marketplace.

the problem with mitch mcconnell wanting to repeal obamacare while simultaneously te lly kee kynect is while that may be a reelection strategy for november, it is not actually possible, not even close to possible. as was editorialized yesterday, repeal the federal law and the state exchange would collapse. kynect is the affordable care act is obamacare, even if kentuckians are confused about which is which. or as a local blog in louisville put it, mcconnell saying that kynect can survive the repeal of obamacare is like saying the oklahoma city thunder can trade kevin durant but keep his jump shot. joining me now is jonathan capehart and brian boitler. does mitch mcconnell think the people of kentucky are living in a fantasy land or can be duped this easily? >> clearly he does. you could understand it during

the primary season because he's trying to win over super conservative hate obama under any circumstances and really hate obamacare, get those voters to help him beat his opponent. what i see happening now is he's trying to basically stay on that balance. but eventually they fall off and i'm not sure lease going to be able to convince enough people that getting rid of the affordable care act is not going to in any way impact kynect and the 431,000 or 413,000 people who are now getting health insurance as a result of kynect. >> brian, i feel like it's political malpractice to suggest to voters that they can keep all the good stuff that they like in kynect but we can repeal the affordable care act. i was saying to jonathan before the segment began, it's as if the gop is so bereft of ideas

and insecure that they have resorted to obfuscation and lying in some cases, voter suppression -- very dirty tactics to win elections because the policy itself has holes in it or doesn't exist. >> yeah, we were told all along that obamacare is going to be this unstoppable political juggernaut that is destroys democrats in november. and that's manifested as republicans saying, we want to reimplement the whole thing in our states, including the medicaid expansion and our successful exchanges. but it's incumbent upon democrats to say that repealing obamacare will take away kynect. until they undertake whatever voter education they need to take, mcconnell is going to continue saying this is wrong, we can keep kynect if we want. but it's not true.

>> mcconnell's opponent responded by saying he has been in fantasy land. you almost -- you want her to go out and give a more full-throated response and say, hey, it is working. that's why 415,000 low income kentuckians have signed up for health insurance, most of them through medicaid. >> perhaps that's what she'll say down the road when she figures out how to more strongly and more effectively make her case and make the case for why what senator mcconnell is saying is absolute fiction. i think it was casey hunt in her interview with senator landrieu asked her the same question. and senator landrieu's been saying basically the same thing that grimes has been saying. we have this law, we need to fix it. but senator landrieu was able to

say it in a way that connected it not just to the affordable care act and health care but also connected it to jobs and to making it an economic issue. >> i want top focus on the medicaid expansion piece for one second. this, i feel like, as jonathan points out, there are a lot of red state democrats vulnerable on the issue of obamacare. the expansion of medicaid is broadly popular. people understand what medicaid is. there are people -- millions of people who now qualify for this program and need it. there's been a whole back and forth about what mitch mcconnell would do on the medicaid expansion. and i must read the whole of this response from his spokesperson because it deserves some parsing. medicaid existed before obamacare and will exist if we are able to repeal it. obamacare loosened eligibility requirements for medicaid recipients and in the process helped find many who are already eligible but not enrolled.

these people would even remain eligible even after a repeal. the federal government does allow states flexibility in setting requirements and kentucky could be able to keep many of the newly enrolled in the program if we decided to. who is he talking about? how would you pay for this? some people estimate it would cost half a billion dollars if kentucky lost the federal subsidies to expand medicaid. he's not being asked these questions. what do you think mitch mcconnell wants to do? >> well, i think that that's actually -- once you parse it and you do need to parse it because it's intended to mislead, it's pretty clear. he's saying there are two populations. that's the people who would have been eligible for medicaid before obamacare but just didn't realize that they were and hadn't signed up. now that they have, they will get to keep medicaid even if obamacare is repealed which is like, thank you for allowing us to -- >> this thing we've qualified for for years. >> right. and then separately, there's the

newly eligible people because of obamacare. he's saying, step one is repeal obamacare and that medicaid expansion for those newly eligible beneficiaries and step two, we'll allow the state of kentucky to decide if it can, wants to and can even afford to reinstate that medicaid expansion based on flexibility written into the program. obviously they're not going to be able to do that easily buzz it's a half a billion dollars a year. so he wants people to think they can keep their medicaid if they repeal medicaid. but they're most likely not going to. the republican study committee is being pushed to come up with an alternative to obamacare. there is no chance -- literally an icicle in hell stands a better chance of staying an icicle than for republicans to agree in the house caucus on an alternative to the aca. >> right. to agree in the house caucus, to get it passed by the full house, to get it passed by the senate and then to get the president of

the united states who it's his signature law, to get him to sign it. >> jonathan and brian, thank you so much for your time. coming up, one of the deadliest moments in the conflict over ukraine. details on today's helicopter attack are next. but most of ours live in the same communities that we serve. people here know that our operations have an impact locally. we're using more natural gas vehicles than ever before. the trucks are reliable, that's good for business. but they also reduce emissions, and that's good for everyone. it makes me feel very good about the future of our company. ♪

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this morning in eastern ukraine, just four days after presidential elections were held, clooes 15 ukrainian soldiers were killed when a helicopter was shot down outside of slavyansk. ukraine's outgoing president called the rebels terrorists and claimed they used a rush anti-aircraft system to bring down the helicopter. in donetsk and slavyansk, fighting between the army and the rebels has escalated over the past few days killing 50

people in donetsk on monday. although the rest of the country went to the polls on sunday, separatists in donetsk largely prevented voting. ukraine's newly elected president has vowed to fight the separatists. but earlier today, a leader of the donetsk's peoples republic wrote, we are not going to leave and we are not going to surrender. this is our land and our home. we are getting stronger and stronger. just ahead, it's been almost a year since the supreme court's landmark decision on prop 8. now a new documentary is telling the story of the plaintiffs who fought the legal battle for marriage equality. two of them join me coming up next. 's beautiful. it's more than that... ...it's perfect. introducing curved ultra high definition television from samsung.

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as of last week, every single state in this country except for one has either legalized same-sex marriage or is facing a legal challenge to allow the practice. this comes just 11 months after

the supreme court ended its 2013 session with two landmark decisions that would forever change the lives of millions of couples across the country. while the court found the defense of marriage act was unconstitutional, not case decided that day would have immediate consequences for couples in the largest state in the union. that was the court's decision to demiss an appeal over prop 8, a decision that allowed same-sex marriage to resume in the state of california. in the new hbo documentary -- >> i've never been more nervous in my life as the first day of trial. >> even though we're ready, there was this weight of, i can't mess this up, i can't. i have to represent me and have to represent my relationship, i

have to represent so many people out there that are fighting and just don't mess it up. >> joining me now are two of the stars, jeff and paul. guys, it's awesome to have you here. >> awesome to be here. >> how did you decide you wanted to be the face of this struggle? or maybe you didn't know you were going to be the face. but how did you decide to wade into this? >> we didn't decide to be. it was quite by accident. we watched a commercial from the national organization for marriage and it really upset us because it was just filled with these misrepresentations we've been seeing so many times in these ballot initiatives against marriage equality. so jeff and i put together a video, we put it on youtube, social media, overnight it was a viral video and we got connected with the american foundation for equal rights shortly after that. and they were like, do you believe this is a federal right? and we said, absolutely. they said, we're thinking about

possibly putting a challenge forth in the courts. and we said, we're on, let's go. >> so we saw that clip of paul talking about the day before the supreme court hearing and oral arguments, maybe it was. what was that moment like? we talk about the civil rights movement and we talk about it in almost anonymous terms, with the exception of a few specific leaders, you guys are living through a moment in civil rights as a couple, your relationship is being litigated in the highest court of the land, what was that like? >> well, even going back to the first trial when we actually testified, could you imagine going on the witness stand and having to talk about your private life and why you love the person you love and why it's important to you? getting that decision in the federal court to win and then ultimately making it up to the supreme court. when you walk in, it's like a movie set. we knew that you have to be able to count to five. ted and david said, we're not going to give up on any justice.

we knew we were really going after justice kennedy and listening to his eloquent language and we had a similar 5-4 decision. it was a great day for civil rights all across the land. >> when you guys decided to fight this or when the forces that were decided to fight this, how much resistance was there? i know that there were some folks in the gay rights community said, it's not the right time to be doing this, public opinion isn't there. how much did you have to face down folks from your own community? >> we knew this was a bold move. it was risky. but we also recognized that it was a very thoughtful process and that the road that we kind of merged on was laid for us by so many people, for decades who fought this when it was a lot harder to put your life in public on the line. we got to say, this is a

thoughtful and a different playbook strategy. we understand that. if we win, though, can you imagine? and if we don't win, we're still putting it on the front page. we're still talking about it, we're still standing up. because we're doing that, the stories people tell will move people from the middle to the right side. we just had to do something. we had to do something. >> what's amazing to me is after the supreme court ruled on doma and prop 8, there was a sense that groundwork has been laid and slowly, gradually, incrementally marriage equality is going to be become not only a national issue but made legal in certain states. that's happened so much faster than -- nobody could have predicted it. what do you attribute that to? >> i think it's the language in justice kennedy's doma opinion. i think that was very important. and i think the justices and judges across the land, whether they're in a federal court, whether they're in an appellate court, they understand that this is the law. this isn't about whether you're republican or democrat. this is about being an american.

and they're interpreting the law as every person in this country deserves the same rights, whether they're gay, straight, bisexual or transgender, everybody deserves those same rights. what's happening now is you're seeing states you never would have expected coming along with arkansas and texas and utah -- states like that. that underscores that, yeah, you might get the coast but you're never getting the flyover states. now we're getting the flayovyov states. >> orrin hatch said, anybody who does not believe that gay marriage is going to be the law of the land just hasn't been observing what's going on. he's not just lit igatory. >> the film documents this legal strategy to make sure that prop

8 never p has again. but the fact of the matter is, it's not about marriage, it's about being treated equally. we were treated like second-class citizens. and that's a universal them among any minority group. there should never be a barrier to equality. >> the barrier has been struck down in california. you guys got officially married last year and the party is happening this month? >> yes. actually got married on this network, live on "the rachel maddow show". >> what a great place to be married. now you have to do the reception with alex wagner. >> his family is in northern california. and they said, you need to have a celebration. we're going to do it at the iconic beverly hilton in beverly hills. we're so excited. >> with this incredible documentary showcasing the struggle you guys have gone through, congratulations.

>> thanks so much. >> congrats on the film. the documentary is "the case against 8" which opens in select theaters and will debut on hbo june 23rd. coming up, president obama talks about his own football concussions and what he's doing to make the game safer. we'll discuss, just ahead. revolutionizing an industry can be a tough act to follow, but at xerox we've embraced a new role. working behind the scenes to provide companies with services... like helping hr departments manage benefits and pensions for over 11 million employees. reducing document costs by up to 30%... and processing $421 billion dollars in accounts payables each year. helping thousands of companies simplify how work gets done. how's that for an encore? with xerox, you're ready for real business. take it on the way you always have. live healthy and take one a day women's 50+. a complete multivitamin

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but here's the attitude -- oh, don't make me do this! oh, this is too hard! >> john boehner publicly mocked his caucus last month. and the tough love is getting even tougher. politico reports today a group of boehner's closest allies including republicans like pat teabury are discussing

punishment for those who don't support. boehner and his allies quietly gave the boot to tea partiers whose views didn't sync up with those of leadership. boehner was voted against in his reelection as house speaker a few weeks later. why might boehner supporters consider preemptive punitive action this time around? turns out his enemies are becoming increasingly agitated and organized. asked last month about efforts to remove the speaker when his term is up, hillscamp said, i think pretty well everybody's figured mr. boehner is going to be gone and the question is cantor and mccarthy. joining me from atlanta is my friend, the lovely patricia murphy. patricia, people tend to think of -- by people, me -- tend to

think of john boehner as a hapless tanner. but behind the scenes, when it comes to his own power, he seems to be an arm-twister and vaguely ruthless. >> he is definitely an arm-twister. i think that he has reserved his ruthless side until now. i think that he knew that that tea party group that came in that made him speaker in the first place, that was such a wild bunch of people who just had so much energy to burn off. and i think a lot of rebellion in their hearts that they need to sort of process through their systems. and then along comes ted cruz and you have the whole thing going on in the senate. and i think that john boehner knew that he was not going to be able to control this group of tea partiers until they really controlled themselves and had circumstances start to control them. and so ted cruz -- john boehner let him go ahead and shut down the government. that didn't work. and we've seen a lot of tea party challenges come up and completely flop this year.

that was the big threat against john boehner and the mainstream moderates, if you don't do what we want you to do, you won't have a job anymore. that's not really how's happening right now. so john boehner is looking at the landscape, assessing it and saying, i'm not going to lose my primary. but i just won it. a lot of my friends aren't going to lose their primaries. and, tea party, you don't have the power that you had before and it's time to start getting in line. i think that's the process we're seeing going on here now. >> i feel like the only point that i would make in response to that is that the gop is basically -- the tea party has eaten the gop or the gop has eaten the tea party. but the effect on policy and legislating has been basically the same, which is the republican party is really far right. whether or not it wants to be and wants to have that identity, why if john boehner is willing to kick tea partiers off of legislative -- off of committee

seats, why isn't there for arm-twisting about what would be good for the party and his speakership like immigration reform? >> we've seen so far he doesn't have a lot of levers of power right now. there are in earmarks. you can't rip an earmark away from somebody. committees are relatively powerless right now in the house because so little legislation goes through them. taking away a committee assignment isn't that big a deal. but we're starting to see tea partiers lose their own power by mounting challenges and losing those elections. so john boehner is saying, first you have to get the process right in the house. you have to get people on the committees where you want them. you have to get them to start following you. and john boehner says this a lot. if you are a leader without followers, you're just taking a walk. he needs the tea partiers to start to fall in line. and his own allies are also saying, everybody, time to start to fall in line. they have an enormous amount of power in the house if they would use it properly and use it to legislate. i believe that john boehner really is a legislator at heart.

he wrote no child left behind with ted kennedy. he's dealing with this caucus that doesn't want to follow him. but they are starting to see their power hemmed in by their losses at the polls. and they really have now they re to go to either follow john boehner or continue to make noise. you can make all the noise you want, but john boehner's allays are saying, go ahead and make your noise, we'll start legislating and start running a house that's functional and maybe even pass a law or too. >> that is -- a functional house! >> i know. this is the beginning. >> but -- yeah, the very, very -- in the basement. the basement of a functional house. >> the dawn. >> patricia, when you talk about leverage and levers of power, one of the earmarks and i'm not going to argue in favor of bringing back ear marks, but those diminish the speaker's power, and if you look at what he has left in his arsenal, money and fund-raising is something that john boehner has been proven to be really good at. and i think a lot of people don't understand that power which he does have may flow from

the fact that he is the big kahuna when it comes to donations and money allocated from boehner to the national republican congressional committee. john boehner has transferred more than $22 million from his campaign to the party committee coffers since 2005, which is more than six times as much as the next person. i mean, you see that chart there. he has raised $5.3 million in this, the first quarter of this year alone. that gives him some stature, i guess, among the denizens of the republican party. >> it does. it gives him a ton of stature. and really, that gives him a lot of power. it gives him the power to say to somebody, you need to come with me, you need to follow me. if you have a primary challenge, i'm going to back you up. i'm going to help you fund your primary. i'm going to get you through this election, if you follow me. we see the chamber of commerce starting to do the exact same thing. saying, if you follow our policies, we will help you beat back these primaries. john boehner knows that money is

power and politics, whether it comes through earmarks or through somebody's own campaign committee, and that is a crucial part of his power. it's also a part of nancy pelosi's power, by the way. he's just a ubiquitous fund-raiser and that's helped her keep her own power. and for these people who are trying to decide, do i really want to vote against john boehner when he comes up for speaker, what if i can't fund my own primary, what if i get kicked off my committee assignments, is starting to lose a little bit of its luster for the tea party. >> the stakes, there are stakes to just being a tea partyier without a country. patricia murphy, citizen jane politics, thank you, as always, my friend. >> thank you, alex. after the break, the first fan takes on head injuries. nate jackson joins me to discuss president obama's plague to raise awareness about children and concussions. that is next. it's time for the "your

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when i was young and played football briefly, there were a couple of times where i'm sure that ringing sensation in my head and the needing to sit down for a while might have been a mild concussion. and at the time, you didn't think anything of it. we want our kids participating in sports. i'd be much more troubled if young people were shying away from sports. as parents, though, we want to keep them safe, and that means we have to have better information. >> that was president obama speaking this morning at the first-ever white house summit on sports safety. every year, nearly 250,000 young people go to the emergency room with athletic brain injuries. and as the president noted, that is a conservative figure, given the number of concussions that likely go unreported and undiagnosed. the white house has announced a $30 million effort in conjunction with the ncaa, to fund the most ambitious and comprehensive clinical study of concussions to date.

joining me now is former denver broncos tight end and author of "slow getting up," nate jackson. nate, always great to see you. as the president sort of suggested today, it's hard to admit and sometimes you just don't know when you're injured. and in sports, it feels like admitting injury is admitting weakness. how do we begin to change that? >> i don't know if you can change it. it kind of comes from the top down, when we watch games on tv, the nfl, it's all about being tough. we have analysts who are talking about toughness, who are talking about the will to win and that trickles down, you know. all these kids are watching it on tv, and so there is an institutional incentive to keep these symptoms to yourself. and until we reduce the importance of football in our culture, i think kids and adults will continue to conceal those symptoms. >> when you were playing -- when you were playing pro football, if you were injured and you were in the locker room, did you guys talk about it? did you ever say, i don't feel good, i think i need to get this

checked out. how much of discussion of it, of injury was there internally? >> not a whole lot, because it's just a reality, an everyday reality is pain and injury and being hurt and pushing through it. everybody who you see on the field in an nfl game has dealt with a lot of injuries to get there. and they've swallowed a lot of those injuries. they haven't reported those injuries, because if i tell the coach or the trainer every time something hurts, then they will think, number one, i'm not tough, number two, they will replace me with someone else, and i might not ever get back on the field again. these guys are very aware that their window to play in the nfl is very small, so they want to take advantage of that time. >> right, the stakes are really high and you want to get field time, so you're not going to try to bench yourself. but the other sort of perfect storm here is that the game of football has gotten really violent. the big hits are what draw audiences. and i wonder, you know, how do we dial that back? can that even be dialed back?

is that a bridge too far to cross? >> it might be too far to cross, because we train these guys to be linear, exploding robots who go downhill and crush their opponent. we train them to be attack dogs, really, and we give them better food, better nutrition, better supplements. there's more exposure, more hype, more energy surrounding the game. so, of course, they're going to be moving faster towards their target. and legislating the point of attack or the point where you hit that target is really difficult when you soup these guys up off the field and then turn them loose on each other. i think it's just really important to level with mothers and fathers out there, that it is a dangerous game. that's the point. that's why we play it. we're drawn to the aggression. we're drawn to the violence. there's no safe way to bring another human being to the ground when he doesn't want to be brought to the ground. and so i think it's important to be honest about that, and then take care of these guys after the fact. take care of their health care when they're done playing and they have trouble living.

>> former denver broncos tight end, nate jackson, always great to see you, nate. thanks for your time. >> thanks, alex. >> that is all for now. i'll see you back here tomorrow at 4:00 p.m. eastern. "the ed show" is coming up next. good evening, americans. welcome to "the ed show," live from new york. i'm michael eric dyson in for ed schultz. as ed would say, let's get to work. >> i think you know my view on obamacare. >> republicans may have problems continuing to make the anti-obamacare argument. >> mcconnell will lose. >> if i had my way about it, we'd repeal obamacare. >> and you even fit in an obamacare reference. >> our top political priority. >> let's move on to obamacare now. >> there's only one escape hatch and that's full repeal. >> repeal the law of the land. is that clear? >> this is insanity. >> why are they so mad about the idea of folks having health insurance. >> our top political